How interested in Carmelo Anthony are you right now?


Carmelo Anthony still wants to be traded.   The Bulls still seem like one of the three destinations in the mix, and one of two destination that we know he’d accept a trade to.  Does the way Luol Deng has played this preseason change your views on whether the Bulls should trade him as well as another set of huge assets for Carmelo?

I’d say at the very least the idea of adding Joakim Noah to the mix is now off the table.  Maybe not everyone is ready to make that leap, but Noah has been fabulous, so I’m taking that stand now.


Let’s say, for the sake of argument, the package is Deng + Gibson + Johnson + our 2010 1st round pick and the Charlotte pick for Melo.  A month ago, this would have been the no brainer of no brainers.  It would have looked like one of those 10 cents on the dollar type of trades.  A lot has happened in preseason to possibly change our minds.  In the midst of the off-season, discussing Luol Deng, I kept thinking “if only Deng had a three, he’d be the perfect fit at SF for this team”.  

Deng has a three now.   Maybe he got lucky shooting 15/29, but I don’t think so.  He wasn’t setting up for corner threes.   The vast majority of his threes were the long threes from the wing rather than the short ones.   He had no hesitation, his release looked smooth, and he didn’t pass up the open three.  He just kept shooting them.  While he’s not going to shoot over 50% from the three point line during the season, I have every confidence that he can accomplish my goal of shooting 3+ threes a game at 35% or greater efficiency marking him a legitimate threat on the three point line that needs to be accounted for or can punish you for not doing so.

What else does Luol do well?  He’s one of the better players in the league in contuinally putting pressure on a defense cutting off the ball and finding open spaces in a zone.  He’s the type of player that fits absolutely perfectly as a third option.  Do I think he’s better than Carmelo Anthony?   No.   No I do not.   However, I’m not sure the Bulls need an extraordinarily high volume offensive player with a questionable attitude and about 5 million more per year in salary at the cost of every useful future asset we have on this team going forward, especially since the new CBA may eliminate the MLE.

In fact, perhaps the most compelling reason to make this trade now is how much worse Taj Gibson looks right now than he did last season.  As much as Luol Deng has played up his value, Taj has played it down through a poor preseason.  In the end you have to compare these two groups:

Rose, Boozer, Noah (as a core) which would you rather add:

Carmelo (high volume, decent efficiency, largely offensive only player, who doesn’t shoot 3s to help space the floor, but can create his shot amongst the best in the NBA)

Deng (2 way player, doesn’t need the ball, contribute in all facets of the game, looks to be a very efficient offensive player on medium volume, can’t create his own shot)
Gibson (Scaring me right now with how much he’s regressed and doesn’t look healthy)
Johnson (doesn’t really factor into the equation much one way or the other)
Charlotte 1st (has a 10% chance or so of being a top 5 pick in five years which could be everything or nothing)
Our 1st (likely relatively little value)

What you are left with in taking Carmelo is paying the man to create his own shot and give you volume scoring, and ultimately, neither piece seems to be the key thing the Bulls are missing.  In fact, Deng’s style fits are offense better as well, the number of shots we have available better, and the surrounding personnel better.  

After all that, in the end, I’m going with Carmelo.  Step 1 in the process in the NBA is to get the talent.  Figure out the fit and the offense later, but get the talent.  Carmelo is still the talent in this equation.  You have to figure out how to make things work?  Mix up the offense?  That’s okay, get Carmelo and figure the rest out later.  

However, Luol, I love you for changing your game so much that I now have to stop and think about it.  You’ve proven that you’re not filler, fodder, or a contract that needs to be made up for.  You’re now the talent part of the trade.   You’re now the player we hoped you’d be when you signed your deal.  The player most of us, including myself, doubted you’d ever become after not shooting the three for six seasons in the NBA.  Keep it up, stay healthy, and keep serving up the crow to all of us, because crow has never tasted so good.


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  • I say keep the team as is for now since this is what mostly everyone wants anyway, see how the team works together as a unit even when Boozer comes back, see how the team matches up against the elite teams in the league and evaluate the team by the trading deadline and if the team needs to be improved, look to make a trade then. Hopefully Melo will still be available and another team won't get into the picture that he would be willing to sign an extension with. This shouldn't even be a conversation but everyone thinks Deng will be an all star all of a sudden... UNBELIEVEABLE!!! I hope for all of you Deng fans sake he does turn into an all star. I will be pulling for him as well but I won't hold my breath.

  • Carmelo is obviously a much better talent and I'll welcome him on this team, but if it happens I don't want to see it coming or talk about it ad nauseum. Just happen out of the blue. The anticipation is a distraction to the players and fans and it's tiring. We've gone through this crap for years for big moves that never materialize.

    On the same note, I LOVE the new Luol Deng and if this is how he plays the rest of his career I wouldn't be mad that it's in a Bulls uniform. People get too caught up with salary for productive players that don't quite live up to their paycheck. We found other ways to improve (i.e. moving Salmons, Hinrich, etc). Obviously, after this summer dropping / moving big salary matters only if we get to make a big upgrade like 'Melo. Outside of that, I'm tire of the conversation.

  • Denver probably is not going to want Deng's contract considering his long view brand name/package he brings, and not a sudden unproven brand of him hitting threes.

    We are not trading Noah which all the reports seem to indicate that that is who Denver would be interested in. I'd sincerely doubt we have much of a chance of landing Carmelo. Would I do the deal(Deng, Taj, J.J., and the two firsts)? A career 45% shooter, most good players/all stars have at max five to six high field goal years, but he gets to the line like a premier top five player with 8-9 trips a game. Two of the last three years he hit three's at an acceptable level though for his career he's awful at 30%.

    Is he kind of a punk attitude wise as I view Wade, Paul, LeBron etc.? Yes. Would I take him in that trade. I think you'd have to, yes.

  • And for the people that say Melo is a ball hog, plays no defense, and sometimes have a bad attitude, first off It's the system that he plays in why he shoots so much, he is the go to guy on that team. If he was traded to the Bulls do people really think he wouldn't play defense in This system??? This guy while in Denver has played defense fairly well the past couple of seasons and he rebounds around the sane clip as Deng. And as far as his attitude, the guy was young when he came into the league and IMO he has handled this situation very professionally. I think some Bulls fans don't want him with the Bulls cause they feel it would stop Rose from flourishing. If anything he would help rose. Every elite point guard in league history has had some very good scorers around them. Rose cannot do it alone and while I think Boozer will be a big help, I still feel like the perimeter game will be a weakness. Having Melo a multiple time all star, an Olympic gold medalist, would only help the Bulls that much more, not hurt them. The Bulls will eventually have to do something to match up against Miami, Orlando, Boston, and the Lakers cause if they don't it will be another 12 years of not winning a championship and I'm sure we all don't want that. Miami for example will be around for a very long time.

  • I really don't think Carmelo works on this team, Carmelo and Rose would be just like Carmelo and Iverson. Two volume offensive players who aren't super efficient, don't have a three point shot and don't have any elite skills beyond scoring.

    I agree you've got to look for talent, but you also need your big two talents to fit together if you're going to build a team around them. The only way it'd make sense to bring on Carmelo is if we plan on trading Rose for something that fits better with Carmelo, and I'm guessing most people aren't on board with that.

    I think our three best chances are to hope Deng is a legit elite three point shooter now, hope we can score a steal in the draft, or hope we can put together a trade for someone who is a great fit. None of them are likely, but they're all way more likely than us trading for Carmelo and it working out just peachy. There's a consistent 50-55 win team, sure, but there just no championship upside for that move.

    PS: Wouldn't want to be the guy who tells Boozer "sorry Carlos, you're only getting 10 shots a game now so 'Melo can have the ball". He might just break his hand again on hearing that news.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Rose is already an elite player and if you think that he is just elite in one area such as scoring, you do not watch Bulls game. The man can pass, score, and can break down defenses that are geared solely towards him. When you are in a conversation with Paul, D. Williams and Roy you are not just an elite scorer you are an elite player

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Our future would not be in a lot of peril if we gave up what you suggested. We are a young team with Rose, Noah and Melo, wouldnt be too old, and replenishing what Johnson and Gibson do would not be hard at all.

  • In reply to DontLetsStart:

    Im not a big Melo fan at all but sayin that i do think the bulls would need his offense to be a contender. I also agree with Doug that i wouldnt give them a package of Deng + Gibson + Johnson + our 2010 1st round pick and the Charlotte pick for Melo. Thats a lot for a person thats only goin to score for you and not bring anything else to the table as in defense and rebounding.

  • I was for the Carmelo trade before, even with Noah. But that was before we saw the improvements both have made. I'd say at this point that I wouldn't do the trade. Deng seems to have taken another step forward and I'd rather root for the guys that have been here. If Rose can develop that killer instinct, then there is no reason to get Melo because he would be redundant in skills and weaker defensively. And there is more than $5 mil difference between Deng and Melo's extension.


    It's time to get real.

    I don't see a lot of PASSIONATE BULLS' FANS on here. Why is that? I can't explain it. How come me and Reesel are the only Bulls' fans on here that really want Carmelo Anthony on the Bulls? That boggles my mind.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm MAD AS HELL that Dwyane Wade said no to Chicago, Bulls' fans and the Bulls' organization. I'm MAD AS HELL that Chris Bosh said no to Chicago, Bulls' fans and the Bulls' organization. And I really dispise LeBron James for the ASSHAT that he is.

    Doesn't anybody else, but me, want to see the Bulls just KICK THE SHIT out of the Miami Heat?

    Doesn't anybody else, but me, want to see the Bulls PREVENT Kobe Bryant from matching MJ's 6 rings?

    Doesn't anybody else, but me, want to see the Bulls PREVENT Phil Jackson & Kobe from a second 3-peat?


    Carmelo Anthony can help the Bulls win CHAMPIONSHIPS. Carmelo Anthony can help the Bulls beat the Miami Heat. He's 9-4 vs. LeBron James. He's 9-3 vs. Dwyane Wade. He's 10-3 vs. Chris Bosh. He's their KRYPTONITE. He has NO FEAR. He plays ANGRY.

    Luol Deng is a solid player, but he's no Carmelo Anthony.

    Right now, the Bulls aren't title contenders in the NBA. WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS IS ALL THE MATTERS IN PRO SPORTS. I'm not down for just winning the Central Division. No true Bulls' fan should be. CARMELO ANTHONY TURNS THE BULLS INTO TRUE TITLE CONTENDERS, make no mistake about that.


    I'm tired of watching the Lakers, Celtics and Spurs win titles. And I'm tired of hearing about Kobe Bryant being better than Michael Jordan. And I'm tired of reading about the Heat breaking the Bulls 72-10 single-season record.

    If the Bulls can get Carmelo Anthony, they can win it all and shut up ESPN, shut up Kobe Bryant, shut up Phil Jackson, shut up the Lakers' fans, shut up LeBron James, shut up Dwyane Wade and shut up Chris Bosh.

    I shouldn't be one of two Bulls' fans on here that want to see that happen...PERIOD!!!

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    wow, Mappy is one blabbering idiot.

  • In reply to jpbaker81:

    actually he sounds like an out-of-control politican

    I guess that is the same thing

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    It is very doubtful we will get Melo. I would give it a 15% chance of Denver doing the trade for Deng, Gibson, picks. The only reason they might do is the great teams in the West have a year or two for domination. I think the Lakers, Mavericks, Spurs, Phoenix are due for a downtime after a year or two. We know the issues with Portland(injury prone roster). If they think by adding Deng as one of the pieces, they can still be competitive in the next 4/5 years...they might do the trade. Otherwise, there is no incentive for Denver to do the trade. It is all about "money". If they think losing and being in the lottery for next 4/5 years means less income in terms of ticket/jersey sales, they will do the trade.

    The other issue is, there is a good chance that Karl will leave Denver next year because of his health issues when he sees the window for winning closed. No great coach is going there and they will hire a young coach like a Monty Williams type for rebuilding. At that time, do they want to tank or have some above-avg players like Deng,Billups etc.. to show the youngsters how to win and play hard. Those discussions will lead them to deciding on the type of trade and not what the Bulls/Knicks need.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    To be honest... I don't think Carmelo is the answer to our team winning a championship .... we would still have to find pieces to surround him.... don't get me wrong he's a damn good player, but will he get us over the hump? Idk .....

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Are you questioning my fanhood???

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I agree with your stated goal Mr. Happy, it is all about winning championships, just disagree with how you get there.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    I hear you. Your not the only one of two guys thinking this way. I am worn thin on hearing 'Bulls might get' then some top guy's name after it. I think you need to make the trade happen. CP3 or Carmelo will be top guys the next 2 years. Make it happen now!. We unloaded the whole roster to open up space for 1 or 2 guys that calibre. Now we don't want to trade because Deng might show a flash of something? Seriously? Deng is above the mid-line at SF, but he is not the player that will carry this team. Just see the last few years....

  • In reply to tomeboy28:

    Rose will carry the team and this is why Carmelo can't be Batman in a Bulls uniform. Deng is merely a sidekick right now. Will Carmelo be willing to play sidekick role to Derrick?

    I'm more interested in surrounding Derrick with the right talent that will support him and Coach Thib's system. I believe that we need to have a deeper bench and better quality role players, in case of injuries to our core players.

  • In reply to tomeboy28:

    I think you guys have all raised good points and I really hope Deng has a great season. I apologize for the snarkiness, im just kidding. But truthfully, this is a superstar's league. We can all agree Melo is a top ten talent. The Bulls have really put together a damn good team and they are very close to becoming a true contender. However, as history has shown, you need a true blue superstar to take your team to the next level.

    It took us a damn decade to return to respectibility. This is the Chicago Bulls. We measure our sucess in championships, not eastern conf finals appearances. There are some very talented teams in the East, as we all know...the time is now.

    That being said, if the trade is not made, I still really like our team and looking forward to REAL basketball on Wed...

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    IF you define passion as agreeing with you(which all uber liberals do) is your M.O. then your an even bigger asshat(Dougism) than we already know you to be.

    Yea, you are the only passionate Bulls fan on this site.

    I will compare Bulls fan(or Chicago sports fan)bonafides with you any day of the week, as well as basketball knowledge.

    I used to go to bed as a litte kid with a radio to my ear to listen to the end of Bulls games during the Dick Motta era, so my parents wouldn't know that I stayed up past my bed time.

    I haven't missed many games since. So don't tell me that I don't have passion just because I may or may not agree with every single assinine assertion that you make.

    I don't know why I or anyone else on this site waist our breath responding to your inane blatherings, you are the proverbial concrete wall, and that is the nicest thing that can be said about you.

  • In reply to MrHappy:


  • In reply to MrHappy:

  • In reply to ChardBull85:

    I like the article. I wish the Bulls will go over the luxury tax soon, so we can start contending for a championship. This season is very important as a measuring stick of where we are at.

  • In reply to ChardBull85:

    IN A HEARTBEAT! I have seen how well Melo can play under a talented defensive minded coach who will not let him slide with his work on the defensive end. And the result was he was selected to the "ALL WORLD" team & won a Bronze & two Gold Medals. LeBron, D. Wade, Boozer, Rose... none of them made an All World Team. I would trade Deng, Johnson, and Picks for sure. Taj is still a question for me because of not having Boozer, maybe if we could get Chris Andersen tossed in.

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    Mr.Happy is just a dickpuncher. he has a problem with every article on here. if Doug started writing about how the bulls need to get Sam Young, Mr.Dickpuncher would start going on about how James Johnson is the much better player.

    ps. please quit punching dicks

  • In reply to MrHappy:

    make that Deng's improvement now that Vinny Dumb Negro is gone...but Melo makes the Bulls not just contenders, but FAVORITES to win the could they not be?...who would stop them? they would have too many weapons to contend with...i had this argument earlier today, saying how no one could match up with the Bulls if they got Melo and gave up Deng...Melo is a difference maker, Deng is a good player...big difference between the two...Bulls would have too many weapons to account for...although his shots look goofy, Noah shoots a high percentage...he would be the best 4th option of all the other contenders...Melo's record against the top tier players is remarkable...THAT'S a money player...

  • The first problem with trading for Melo is you have to trade for Melo. Considering what the Bulls what have to give up for him, even with Noah off the table the potential improvement to the team is practically negated. That would be Deng, a young player, a first round pick, and likely a bunch of money when you resign him. That's a huge cost. I'm especially hesitant about the draft pick part of it, but that's what Denver will want most.

    The second problem with trading for Melo is that he doesn't play shooting guard. You don't give up everything the Bulls would be giving up to improve at a position where you're already league top 10. Not when you've got such an obvious problem at the guard position yet to address. Now your shooting guard is still a question mark and you've got fewer picks and trade pieces to deal with it.

    He doesn't solve the Bulls' biggest problem. He slightly improves one of the Bulls strengths and costs too much to do it. Pass.

  • Yes Mr. Happy I'm very mad that D-Wade punked us and lead us on...he cheated on us like some whore!
    Meet with upper management twice and him and Bosch tweeting back and forth...I hope all these guys literally break a leg and never see another Championship in Miami...maybe they will get HIV and have to fight it like Magic Johnson because he was with a whore!

    Now back to Melo sure I'd love to see him on the Bulls but many times the synergy of the parts is way bigger and better then the sum of its parts. Look at how our young US team just won with no huge names, well Durant is huge...and others including Rose but they are still so young and not the dbags that Lebron and other celebrities have become. The US team looked liked they enjoyed playing with each other and that's what you need.

    I think we should ride out the team we have and when February or whenever the trade deadline comes around we look into this trade then. Denver wants Noah and I doubt will be happy with JJ and Taj, JJ had played much better and I don't want to give up on him either but Taj is still injured and playing like crap.

  • I think Melo is a better matchup against LeBron than Deng. I make the trade in a heartbeat if we keep Noah.

  • In reply to scottplummer:

    So does every other dispassionate fan on this site, unfortunately there are 2 people who will not do that deal, the Denver front office and Jerry Reinsdorf.

  • First of all, Thanks for putting up this article. I think I speak for almost everyone when I say this was necessary. The reason is the other topics were being hijacked by Happy for his constant spamming about Melo trade. It was difficult to discuss other topics and having some ideas about other players and issues about Bulls. We can talk about Melo trade here but not spilling over when we are discussing Boozer's injury for example.

  • A Luv-A-Bulls article huh? Doug, I think we really need to test this theory.

  • Nice post. What I have been thinking about lately is how well Redick would have fit on this team. To have him AND Deng space the floor for Rose seems like it would have been the perfect fit.

  • In reply to UnstopaBull:

    Makes me think the FO and Thibs have a clue about what they are doing in terms of building a team around Rose and finding talent that COMPLIMENTS his style and abilities.

  • If we couldn't get Rudy from Portland at least yet we should gotten Bayless...we need a decent backup to Rose and I don't have much faith in CJ from what I've seen so far.
    The Hornets got him for a future 1st round pick to Portland.

  • In reply to smiley:

    Bayless had the same issues as CJ. Maybe he is more talented than CJ, but his ball handling and PG skills are suspect and that's why he got traded. And those are the same issues we are having with CJ. I think CJ will shoot..that will not be a major issue. I think if James Johnson and Brewer can handle the ball to help out CJ on the second team, we will be fine.

  • In reply to smiley:

    i was only able to find the last 2 games of the preseason, but deng had 29 pts on 11 shots vs the pacers and 22 pts on 13 shots vs the raptors. meanwhile, the last game melo played, he had 21 pts on 23 shots.

    this is derrick rose's team. luol fits this team better...he doesnt need to hold and dominate the ball to be effective, he plays defense and he helps stretch the floor for drose.

    i say keep deng. especially when you consider all the other pieces we would have to get rid of.

  • In reply to smiley:

    Im not sold on Melo. Melo is like Tracy McGrady to me as,he is a top ten player but will u ever win with him.

  • In reply to rod189:

    Good analogy, although I don't think that Melo is a big of a pussy as McGrady. Melo reminds me of Dominique Wilkins or even a young Vince Carter, but his scoring is not as athletically spectacular.

  • In reply to rod189:

    Well we just spent 150 posts discussing a trade that one party will not even consider doing, that would be Denver.

    But as long as Mappy keeps insisting that we make that trade, it is bound to happen, just like everything else that he repeats over and over and over again.

  • In reply to rod189:

    Heres what needs to happen:
    Andre Iguodala already wants out of Philadelphia right? well we should send Deng to the sixers. The sixers send Iggy to Denver, we send gibson, johnson, and a draft pick to Denver as well, and then Melo comes to us. That might just work. and then we could possibly send Our Charlotte pick to portland for Fernandez since he doesn't want to play for portland anymore obviously.
    Starting Five:
    Brewer-good sixth man
    Now I don't know about any of you but to me thats definitely a championship team. just look at these match ups against Miami:
    To me this looks like a team that could win many many championships, What do you think?

  • In reply to rod189:

    Yeah- Deng fires for 40 the other night, lookin' like a dude, then shoots a less than aggressive 5 for 13 the next @ the knicks. No consistency whatsoever in his game. GO AFTER MELO W/EVERYTHING YOU GOT! (except Rose & Noah)

  • In reply to smiley:

    Is this really even being discussed. Come on guys, Deng or Melo? Jeez let me think? Are you serious?


    Its great Deng is playing better, it only took him 5 years. Lets trade him while his value is up before he gets injured 2 weeks into the season.

    Jesus, its like the Kobe trade all over again.

  • 1.) I understand the argument against trading Noah AND Deng in the package for Melo.

    2.) There is no trade possibility without Noah and the Bulls committed to Noah he wouldn't be traded for Melo. Or else Noah wouldn't have agreed to the extension and continued to use the lack of that extension as a de facto trade veto in his back pocket.

    3.) Stop saying that Melo doesn't fit with the Bulls system. You have to understand that if a player like Melo cannot "fit with your system", you change the damn system. The problem in that mix isn't Melo, it's the system. Crafting one around an elite player is always better than the one set in stone with a mix of players virtually incapable of winning a championship.

  • In reply to LittleAlex:

    1. I agree to your third point that we can change the system to fit Melo. A good coach should do that or a great player will adapt to it. The triangle is worthless without MJ or Kobe.

    The point is we give up so much for Melo that we have to kind of rebuild the depth again to compete in a couple of years. The level of competition from the Bulls will be the same with (because of lack of depth) and without Melo(decent depth). In a couple of years, we have to fight the Heat for the depth. But a injury or two there with the Heat will give us the chance to dominate.
    I agree with Melo we have a better chance of winning. There is nobody to stop LeBron from dominating with the Bulls. Melo seems to be the best weapon against LBJ. If not, we need Rose to become dominant over Wade in the next couple of years.

  • It's less of a no-brainer than when I wrote this:

    I'm saying needing a superstar isn't a cliche. Remove the Pistons, who unmatched physical beatdowns and adept basketball IQ against a Lakers team ready to rip each other's throats out and 'that guy' who can score at will is absolutely crucial to manufacturing the wins in the playoff series' where everyone and every system and tendency has been put under the knife of elite advanced scouting.

    I can't genuinely digest that Derrick Rose is that guy and even if he is, who's the point guard when he has to create off the ball? Noah and Boozer are good passers and I love that Thibs wants a layup/dunk then inside-out offense, but if you're committing to D-Rose being the takeover guy, you have to seriously consider maneuvering for a true PG and understanding D-Rose is more D-Wade than D-Williams.

    I understand the confidence people have in this team and I love it, but the logic behind the confidence in D-Rose as rising to that elite status supports finding every way possible to get Chris Paul. I really do love Deng, but if I can have a 1-2-3 of Paul-Rose-Brewer/Korver, I might take it until the off-season for Rose-Brewer/Bogans-Deng. That said, as much as a CP3ophile as I am, I'm in greater support of shopping Deng -- especially if he breaks out large in the early season -- for a better 3. Those guys would be Melo, Gerald Wallace, Danny Granger (hey, we have the white guys to bait Larry Bird, so I can dream) and maybe Iguodala. I don't think those can happen, so yeah, I'm fine with the status quo as the best we'll get, but this four -- Rose, Boozer, Noah, Deng -- can't win a championship with the others there now and the other pieces are the hardest to significantly move.

  • I want to trade for Melo cause we need his scoring. The Kobe Trade could have never happen anyway.

  • Deng(pros)
    - moves well without the ball
    - doesn't need 20 shots a game
    - above average defender
    - above average rebounder
    - good size
    - good locker room guy
    -lacks killer instinct during late game situtations
    - Injury issues
    - can't create his own shot

  • Nope. This is him:

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    That's funny. I was reading Sam Smith's Bulls article and there was a bunch of comments by someone about the same trades a lot of times. I guess Happy is being like a politician that the Denver FO will agree with him eventually because he keeps shouting online everywhere and in every forum and trade Melo for Deng.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    That's a very inappropriate near X rated pic of Melo doing his dirty deeds Doug! LOL

  • i didnt not want them to trade melo for noah, but i would without a doubt make the trade for deng plus picks and young players. think about it, we would have a top 5 player in 4 spots in the starting lineup at their position. rose is a top 3 point melo is a top 3 small and noah is a top 3 center. so i would definanly do this deal.

  • Really, you don't think Deng is a better defender and rebounder than Melo? for their careers, Deng has a much better defensive rebounding rate and Deng has a better defensive rating, and the same offensive rating (107) as Melo.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    If Deng and Melo have the same offensive rating that pretty much makes this whole thread hi-larious.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    Yeah, it is interesting. The difference is that Melo got it as a primary offensive option and Deng as a secondary or tertiary option. So really what it boils down to is do you think the bulls need a primary offensive option (or can Rose fill that role) or do you think Melo can be productive as a second or third option (and would he be worth the price as such)? I'm leaning towards the Rose/Deng side of things.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:


    By other facets do you over paid and often injured?

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    It's foolish to say there is no downside, no negatives, to a melo trade. But it's hard for me to argue we are better off without him. It's a game of odds, and the odds are in favor of making the move. Melo may have never won anything but look at what he was up against in the lakers and spurs. Don't be so naive to say that since he's never won it all that he isn't hungry to do so. Watching melo it seems like the perception of him as a volume scorer may be a product of the system he is in. It's unfair to say he couldn't do well with slightly less volume in a different system coached with different methods. I think melo has done what he's done because that is what has been asked of him. Ever stop to think that maybe he wants out because he's tired of how he's been asked to play and covets a new more team oriented approach that would allow him to cement his legacy with NBA titles. Don't write melo off as a guy that craves putting up numbers over winning...he could just be doing what he's asked.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    Good post. As RPK mentioned earlier, not all superstar trades work but some do work. Drexler, Shaq(for 4/5 years) worked while AI, McGrady did not work. McGrady and AI were very "faulty" superstars and plus their mentality was never team oriented. Even recently, AI couldn't adjust and McGrady was talking smack after the workout with the Bulls. You don't see that from Shaq when he signed with Cleveland or Boston. I think Melo wants to win and he will eventually be a good fit. The main point is will Denver trade him to the Bulls for a package of Deng, Gibson,picks....Right now, they need a lot more than that or Deng with a 8 mil/yr contract.

    I think eventually the Bulls or Portland will get him. We know whatever we think of Rose, LBJ realized that his best chance to win was in Miami. He did not want to risk if Rose will become elite or Noah will become a stud. He took the safest bet. I think Melo will do the same. He will take the safest bet because he has done everything else(all-star, olympics, money etc..).. He wants a HOF career with championships and whereever he thinks he can achieve that, he will try to force a trade there.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:


    Michael Jordan, has agreed, in principle, to unretire the number 23 so Luol Deng can wear it for one season.

  • hopefully Deng continues his solid play

  • You forgot it was just not Deng in that one was Klank Hinrich shooting some 3s and putting the CAVS in a hole. I agree that in the foreseeable future, Melo seems to be the best bet against LBJ and there is nobody else of that caliber available.
    The only other way to win with Deng(very slight chance) is adding a offensive minded, decent defense(keeping Wade, Kobe honest) kind of SG. We don't need an elite player but an almost all-star kind of player such as Ray Allen, Ric Hamilton, Jason Richardson. That team also has a good chance. So, it is not really Deng who is the problem but the lack of offense from the perimeter without trying to use multiple players to do one role(Korver, Brewer).

  • Let's be honest with ourselves, say what you will about Anthony, he would make this team better. People say he's a volume shooter, how often are those at the end of a shot clock because nobody else wants to shoot it? I'm sure Billups' shots have probably gone up since going to Denver too. Melo has played big in big playoff games. He was asked to shoulder the offensive load in Denver, much like Garnett in Minnesota, and not with great talent other than Billups. Anyone ever thought that some of the attitude stuff might be because he wants them to be serious about surrounding him with better talent? Look, I love the way Deng has been playing, BUT IT'S PRESEASON! Our depth doesn't suffer as much because Asik has shown he can play, he's certainly outplayed Gibson.
    Current team(when healthy):

    After trade:
    Thibs only plays an 8-9 man rotation, and with this team we still have a deep bench. We'd have talent that rivals or at least offsets that of the leagues elite teams. Listen, Anthony is an elite player. He took Syracuse to a national championship, which is extremely difficult, and did it with not much help... Only Hakim Warrick is in the league from that team. I'm all in for Melo without hesitation.

  • In reply to Rey247:

    I really don't want to hear the crap about Melo being a winner because he brought Syracuse a title some 20 years ago, or my favorite, because he helped team USA win a gold in '08.
    He plays in the NBA... WHAT HAS HE DONE IN THE NBA???NOTHING!!!
    If LeBron went to San Jose State he would have led them to the championship. You just cannot compare college to the pros when it comes to winning, and that was a long long time ago anyhow.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Since melo has been in the league there have only been what? 6 NBA champions? So you are arguing that since he didn't lead his team over the lakers and spurs he isn't a winner? There can only be so many champions, that's why they are so coveted. Melo is a great player and while I do think trading for him has some notable downsides, I also know we have to pull the trigger if the opportunity presents itself.

    One other thing...considering Michael Jordan hit the game winning shot in the NCAA finals, I'd say it means something that melo carried his team to the ship.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    You're right... But what has Rose or anybody else on this team done in the NBA for that matter? To negate the fact that Anthony led a team to a national championship is ridiculous, because it shows that he was capable at winning on a grand stage. Thats what he was able to do with no talent in college. He hasn't had great teams in Denver, and still got them to the playoffs. The year he was drafted, Lebron won ROY, but Melo got his team into the playoffs in the more difficult west, with lesser teammates, and comparable numbers. He averaged 31 points and almost 9 rebounds a game in the playoffs last year. Out of that highly touted draft class, only D Wade has a ring. So the case can be made that they're all failures? The Bulls would be better with him, and its hard for me to imagine anyone arguing otherwise. But I respect your right to your opinion.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    This is my bottom line opinion:

    If Reinsdorf is willing to go way over the luxury tax to pay for Rose (max contract), Boozer, Noah, and Carmelo, they can find talented players to fit the roster. There's always going to be players that are willing to get paid less to be with a contender.

    The problem we are having with this discussion is we have been accustomed to always being under the luxury tax that we only get players that will put us under the tax. The concern I have is with Melo on our team, what type of players will we have to surround our core players? After the Melo trade, would we focus on getting under the tax or are we going to go WAY OVER the tax to get the most talented roster to become a contender?

    This argument of Melo VS Deng is not easy to make because we are not sure if Reinsdorf is willing to go over the tax. We haven't even picked up D Rose's next contract yet and we don't even know what is going to happen with the next CBA. I think management is more concerned about the next CBA and Rose's contract than Melo right now because of Melo's price.

    Can you really have 4 players taking majority of your cap space and being under the tax to contend for a Championship? Our coach alone is getting paid as a rookie. Now if our coach is getting paid like Phil Jackson and we are paying Derrick like Kobe then I know that the Bulls are serious about Contending for a Championship.

    The NBA is a BUSINESS and this is not fantasy league and this is not NBA 2K. It good to think about how Melo will make this team better or not, but it is pointless if we are not sure if ownership is willing to have a VERY HIGH payroll.

    My point is Reinsdorf has made more basketball decisions post Jordan era than Basketball decisions. We are having this conversation now because Derrick Rose fell into our laps. I'm pretty sure it is better for the NBA to have Chicago contend for a championship because of how much followers the Bulls have. Can you imagine a Bulls VS lakers rivalry again? Can you imagine the story lines again?

  • In reply to truniac307:

    It was hard typing on my iphone

    *My point is Reinsdorf has made more BUSINESS decisions post Jordan era than BASKETBALL decisions.

  • In reply to truniac307:

    I see the point, but look at it like this. The Pistons were able to win the ring with Hamilton, Billups, Prince, the Wallace's, Okur and scrubs... Rose, Melo, Noah, Boozer, Korver and Brewer collectively probably could put up better numbers and are under a defensive minded coach. If we were able to contend, spending would be less of an issue because revenue rises as teams do well because fans invest in them as well.

  • In reply to Rey247:

    This Bulls team we have now may be the next Pistons and we may surprise other teams. Will Reinsdorf view our team as contenders after acquiring Melo? Will we go over the tax after acquiring Melo? Those are my questions.

  • In reply to truniac307:

    Jerry Reinsdorf is a very savy businessman. He is loyal to the players that he likes and he rewards people that are loyal to him. Reinsdorf thinks very highly of Luol Deng because of his off the court image (community involvement and charities) that he negotiated Deng's contract himself. In Reinsdorf's mind, Luol Deng POSITIVELY represents the CHICAGO BULLS Franchise. Why do you think players are not allowed to wear headbands???

    The question you should be asking yourself is, from a business/marketing standpoint, what does Jerry Reinsdorf think of Carmelo Anthony?

    The Bulls is a Cash Cow business because they are always under the tax and the Bulls mostly make it to the post season. I'm not sure if Jerry cares about winning the Championship as long as his profits are WAY OVER than his losses.

    Is Jerry Reinsdorf more concerned about satisfying his share holders or his fans???


  • In reply to truniac307:

    I think JR is complex than what we think. He will spend money ...think Albert Belle, Ben Wallace etc.. I think the Bulls fans are assuming that he will not spend unless there is a promise of championship..(almost a guarantee like when we had MJ). I don't think he is like that. If we get Melo and then have a core of Melo, Noah, Rose and Boozer....he will spend. You are assuming what he thinks about Deng. He might like Deng but I don't think it is the way you depict. We actually have no idea. That said, the only time the Bulls looked anything like a contender was in 2006(might be wrong on the year). He spent on Ben Wallace at that time but that team didn't even give him a chance next year to spend more. They just sucked.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    We did pay Ben Wallace but we still didn't go over the tax. I'm waiting for the year that Reinsdorf goes over the tax because that means we are looking at our team as contenders.

    Here's an interesting blog about Noah's contract extension details.

  • In reply to truniac307:

    Jerry claims he's ready to go over the cap if it means well compete. Even without melo the bulls will be surpassing the cap once rose gets his new deal. After that the only way to add players will be the mid level exception, and through trade.

    Now, remember that trading deng for melo would mean we drop dengs relatively large contract and add melos monster. The difference between the two doesn't matter Immediately but rather long term. In 2 years the diff between dengand melo will be roughly 7 were dipping into the cap 7 million more than with deng, resulting in an actual cost of 14 million. So money wise Jerry would be paying 14 million more a year for melo than deng, this number is kind of decieving though since however much you exceed the cap is a sum of all contracts not the one you go over it with. For instance, since rose will put us over the cap anyways dengs contract becomes proportionally more expensive. So in reality it would cost Jerry less than 14 million, more like 11-12 M for melo opposed to deng.. Hope that made sense, sort of complicated.

  • In reply to truniac307:

    The Main things that seperate Deng an Melo are:

    1. Melo gets respect from the refs anytime, all the time....In the playoffs, this is huge, Melo can get to the line an get teams in foul trouble. Melo can attack the best players of other teams better then Deng can.

    2. He is a go-to scorer....whenever you need a big bucket, Melo can create for himself. Whether its a pull up, back down, drive to the lane...melo can do it. Deng can barely beat his man off the dribble, and we all know he struggles to create his own shot.

    3. Melo is aggressive all the time. Even when he goes against elite talent, Melo is attacking them. He has been playing against LeBron ever since high school, he knows how to play him and other great talents around the league.

  • In reply to truniac307:

    OF COURSE YOU get Melo!!!!! Deng is playing good right now yes, but he is doing it against crap teams. And im glad he is, because he is raising his value. When he actually goes up against elite talent in the NBA, he folds...he gets scared and stops playing aggressive.

    A team of Rose,Brewer,Deng,Booz, an Noah will not beat the Heat in a 7 game series imo. But a team of Rose,Brewer,Melo,Booz an Noah has a good chance. Anytime you can get a star player for average players, you do it. Taj is replaceable, Deng will be easily replaced by Melo, draft picks can turn out to be James Johnson's or even worse.

    The best player on your team cannot be a just doesnt work...only time i remember a PG taking his team to the championship an winning it was Isiah Thomas back in the 80's. Its just not a good formula, Rose is a heck of a player, but you need more. A PG, Swingman an 2 bigs will get you very far in this leage. Its a WIN WIN situation. If Melo doesnt work trade him for a star or more quality players/draft picks.

  • In reply to Csharp:

    Tony parker was the best player when he won the Finals MVP and Billups was the best player when he won Finals MVP. I believe that D Rose is a better scoring guard than a PURE PG. Derrick in my opinion will be the next D Wade; I wish D Rose is a little taller. If you are the best player on your team, it's hard to defer to lesser talents. If you are the best player, you should be the go to guy during crunch time. I think Derrick wants to be the go to guy deep down inside and he just doesn't vocalize it as much. We are seeing Derrick come out of the closet wanting to be the man and not wanting to be the "Robin" in the team.

  • In reply to truniac307:

    I'm with you as far as D Rose goes... The kids a hybrid pg/sg, he needs a system that uses the whole team to distribute the ball, not one that is solely dependent on him making every assist, seems like thibs is aware of this and setting the foundation for an offense that will do just that. I believe rose is the next Wade but with even more heart and determination. Rose will continue to shoot better as time goes on, he will look more and more like a shooting guard. You get 5 players on the court at a time, why limit our players based on what the standard is at each position. With an amazing passer at center and role players that have solid vision rose can flourish as an all around player without focusing on making every assist. Rose will move more off the ball than any pg in the league, guaranteed.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    And this is why I'm not so worried about replacing Rose as the franchise player/go to guy with Carmelo. I just hope that Rose will be healthier than D Wade and this is why I'm not worried about Rose trying to get to the line like D Wade because it takes more toll on your body to try to create contact to go to the line. I see D Rose as having Jordan's competitive nature but he is a SILENT ASSASSIN. I am not a fan of Rose being compared to CP3 and D Will because they are PG's. I'd rather make the comparison to D Wade because D Wade is a scorer and go to guy during at the end of games.

    Carmelo will be a good addition for a Robin role but his contract doesn't fit a Robin role unless we go way over the tax.

    I'm curious to see what kind of business decisions the Bulls make next. This season is a VERY IMPORTANT season for us Bulls fan because it'll pave the way for the future direction of this franchise.

  • how is Rose not a considered an elite player?
    even players around the league consider him an elite player and coaches like Thib, have specifically game planed against Rose. Granted Rose the best at his position but many people would put Rose in the top 3-4 PGs in the league. Out of 30 teams in the NBA and to be in that grouping makes someone an elite PG

  • You argued for multiple paragraphs & concluded that Deng is a better fit, & then you throw it all away just because Melo is more talented? That's crap. The Bulls have top end talent, now they need it to fit. Also, while Melo is by far a more talented scorer, Deng is more talented in every other facet of playing the game. Deng was the 2nd best recruit coming out of high scool (, only behind LeBron. The GMs a few years back almost unanimously voted him breakout player of the year, and he has somehow managed to put up very good numbers the last several years playing for 2 coaches that didn't know how to use him (skiles was the one who moved him off the 3pt line).

  • I can't believe some of the Bulls fans are doubting Carmelo. Deng has been with the Bulls going on his 8th year now and the guy has had only 1 productive year cause he has been inconsistent or injury prone. Carmelo is a upgrade at Deng's position, an all star, a collegiate champion, Olympic gold champion, and some of the Bulls fans say that he would not fit on this team. Don't get me wrong but Rose is well on his way to being an elite player hopefully, but he is not Jordan, he will not be able to win a championship primarily cause of him.He will eventually need help in a major way. Jordan and Pippin's game were very similar but Jordan took way more shots and was the go to guy. Why can't Rose have a go to guy and still get his shots? He is a point guard, point guards are not suppose to get that many shots anyway in the right system. If the Bulls don't get Melo, I hope they have someone else in mind that will contribute to this team in trying to bring another championship to Chicago. Boozer has been fragile in his career, we are witnessing that now and Brewer seems to be fragile as well along with Deng. If the Bulls have a major injury to one of these guys things will be that much tougher.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    The whole idea of Melo wanting to leave Denver is to be in the spotlight more, thats how he thinks, he is selfish. He would never be willing to play the supporting role.

  • lets not overvalue our players again. please.
    whenever you can get a superstar and dont give away one. its a no brainer every time.

  • In reply to ChardBull85:

    AGREED 200%

  • In reply to ChardBull85:

    Word. There's some serious hometownophilia goin' on in this general discussion whether it's on t3h interwebs, the bar, the arena, the radio, etc.

  • In reply to ChardBull85:


    I cant respond to individual comments, however, you say Carmelo's game doesnt fit team needs. Explain to me how 20+ points a game doest fit EVERY teams needs.

    We finally have a post presence when Booz comes back, we have high energy defense and rebounding type players, we have an assasin for a point guard. What are we missing? Anyone? Anyone?

    Thats right, a go to scorer who can create his own shot and take pressure of D Rose.

  • In reply to Dmband:

    Would you trade Derrick Rose for Carmelo Anthony?

  • Keep it as is for now, then maybe go after a 2 guard, not a 3.
    Deng will be an all-star candidate if healthy.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    This isn't fantasy basketball

  • I don't agree with you on this. Iverson was pretty much useless when Denver got him. I would say Melo is a far better fit in any team than Iverson. He could probably adjust and I don't think Melo is a headcase like Iverson. Melo is in his prime and Iverson if not past his prime or was at the end.

  • Who could the Bulls trade for that would help them contend for a championship if Carmelo is not the right fit??? I thas to be players that supposedly fit and would help the Bulls contend with MIAMI, ORLANDO, BOSTON AND THE LAKERS... Can anyone answer this question for me please???

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Cause we all know that this Bulls team is not at the elite level. Who can they bring in to make them ELITE?

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I sure hope people from around the league dont come and read this discussion. Its embarrassing to Bulls fans in general that people would make the arguement we are better off with Deng. What league are you guys watching? Deng usually plays about 20 games a season, Melo is exactly what this team needs, a go to scorer who can create his own shot. We lose countelss games because this team cant close in the fourth quarter.

    With Melo we are a legitimate contender. Without him we are a 4-6 seed with a second round exit every year. Period. ENOUGH!


  • In reply to Dmband:

    I agree... I guess most Bulls fans have gotten used to seeing a mediocre team and players. I for 1 am tired of seeing just ok basketball. 12 years has passed since the last great team in Chicago. How many more years are we suppose to wait to get back to a championship? I guess it doesn't make a difference to the owners cause they have been saving money since the end of the 98 season. How much more money do they plan on saving? It's time to go back into the luxury tax and bring in some elite players that know how to win THE BIG GAMES. We fans have been patient long enough.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Deng is a better rebounder statistically but not by much. With Noah and Boozer on the boards, the difference in Deng's and Melo's rebounding stats is negligible. Deng seems to be a better defender but it's not like he's a defensive stopper on par with Artest in his prime or Shane Battier. With Thibs running the squad the defensive gap between Melo and Deng could end up being negligible, too.

    As far as who fits the best, that depends on Rose. Even though he seems most effective as a shoot-first PG (which conflicts with Melo's game), they had to talk Rose into being a more aggressive scorer. With that in mind, Rose might thrive as a pass-first PG if he's surrounded by scorers like Boozer and Melo.

    So overall, I feel exactly the same way I felt before the preseason started. I'd make any move for Melo that didn't include both Deng AND Noah. So yes, I'd make the deal Doug proposed in a heartbeat.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    It depends on if we are willing to go over the luxury tax or if we are trying to stay under the tax?

  • Now that was chemistry problems and Iverson was a 2 guard who liked to shoot and Melo was at the 3 and he liked to shoot a lot as well. Denver needed a point guard to set everyone up, that's where Billups came in at. Can Rose do what Billups did with Carmelo???

  • C' know the truth about these experts. They are the ones who said this summer that LBJ cannot co-exist with Rose or Wade because each one of them demands the ball. The point is comparing AI and Melo is a little extreme in terms of impact. I agree there are issues with getting Melo we need to consider but don't compare him to AI who had 10 year while Melo has had 7 years in the league.

  • Thank you for pointing out that the nugget team with melo and iverson did have success. They would have been favored in the eastern conference at the time. Since when does a guy have to of won a championship in order to be worthy of the title elite. It's as if some people think 5 championship trophies are given out each year instead og one.

    Wouldn't you have to say that rose and melo would be a better fit than melo and ai? Did Denver have a guy like Carlos boozer in the paint? Add boozer to that Denver team and I take them against the lakers and spurs.

    Look it's not the perfect fit, but pardon my language, fuck perfect. Can we all agree this current team has little to no shot at the championship this year? So big deal if we have some tinkering to do by adding melo. Big deal if we need asik to step into taj gibsons role. Those issues are easier to solve than the current gap between us and that trophy. If we get melo now it sets us up with Rose, Noah, Melo, and Boozer for the forseeable future, that four alone trumps the big three IMO. Then it's our role players vs there's. Yes I'm discounting team chemistry but I believe in thibs bball iq enough, he can build a solid game plan around that roster, it's what we hired him for. Its not flawless and it's not a no brainer, it's simply a move you just have to make. And regardless of our intuition as fans, you can be rest assured the deal we are arguing about would be made by bulls brass at the tip of a cap.

  • It's hard when we are trying to get into the heads of superstars...but that's really where the answer lies. Is his mindset to go somewhere and alter his game to win?

    I hate to say it but at least lebron bosh and wade set an example for that sort of mentality. It might actually help guys like melo think hard about going somewhere to win in a way that requires submitting to equally gifted teammates. Then again his first choice is the knicks which waves a red flag. But that could be all about his plans to team up with cp3 eventually. I can't say I have confidence in melos demeanor...but I feel like my opinion of him thus far may have been developed unfairly.

  • I'm not wild about Melo so I'd pass on this trade.

  • Thanks for creating this article Doug. What do you think of this?

  • All true. It comes down to, do you take that chance with melo where you have the possibility of it working and you winning it all, or do you stand pat and move forward with what you've got. If we take the ladder, we better have a solid plan moving forward since the only way we add gamechangers is via trade. I will point out though...that Charlotte pick having a chance of winning the lottery does make me think twice about it's value in this whole ordeal.

  • In reply to jgingeri:

    I personally don't think the Charlotte pick will amount to anything. First of all, how many picks really click. It is still a risk and if we use the pick in 3/4 years from now, it is another 3/4 years before the pick contributes. That might be 8 years from now.

    And for all his issues, MJ will not let Charlotte get so bad. Or, the other issue is that team might not even exist after next few years if contracted because of the new CBA..

  • I basically agree with your sentiments(which is saying alot since I am not a Deng fan, at least not the Deng of the last 2 years under Del Bimbo)

    However, you are leaving out what to me is the biggest issue, team Chemistry.

    Somewhere in the Rose articles this week, I saw something where he made a big deal out of the fact that the guys are all hanging out together, going to each others homes, doing each others events.

    IN the past the Bulls teams were a bunch of loners. Team chemistry is vastly underated, and it is a chicken or the egg type of thing. Does winning create chemistry or does chemistry breed winning.

    I think that this team has something special building chemistry wise. There is no doubt in my mind that Melo will be a negative team chemistry wise.

  • I have faith the bulls will make the trade if they can. But I'm not going to make it some kind of necessity. I still have faith that our current core can be the centerpiece of a championship team. It will take time and some outstanding management but we can do it. Do yourselves a favor and keep this melo stuff from spoiling a good thing. Things are looking up for us..all of us. I know the kind of passion that exists within the readers of dougs blog, it makes me proud to be a bulls fan.

    .....even though some of you are out of your fucking mind.

  • I think Kobe will be leaving elite status soon. I think Pau Gasol and the bench carried Kobe to a Championship during the Finals. The Celtics were so close in winning that series but the Lakers bench won it for LA.

  • Shaq and Kobe couldn't win a title together until Phil Jackson became their coach.

  • i think Mr. Happy's real name is Harold

  • Is Durrant not elite yet?

  • I agree with this part of the equation.

    The trade off is the extra scoring vs. the way more xtra cash(Melo makes or will make $6-7-8 million more per year), and the downgrade in team chemistry, which could be huge.

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