What's a mangina?

Dick. Prick. Boob. The p-word.

Have you ever noticed the highest way to insult a person is to call them by sexual organs? Some guy cuts another one off in traffic: dick. A guy says something offensive: prick. Someone makes a social blunder: boob. It’s just part of our culture that the lowest thing you could possibly be is a private part. If it’s possible to be one step worse, it’s being called the private part of the opposite gender.

I heard a new word the past few days. Mangina. Kinda fun, no? It makes me think of that ole Wanda.


What is curious is there is no female equivalent. When a woman is insulted, the most common word used is bitch, a female dog. The c-word has gained in popularity as I had the joy of experiencing lately (thanks, activists!) but no one insults even the worst of women with the word penis. Seriously, have you ever heard a woman called a penis? It does not occur to women to call each other penises when they are mad or in order to coerce each other into submission. If a woman goes against her group, no one would call her a wenus.

Why, then, do people accuse men of being “manginas” when they wish to insult them or control their behavior? This is mainly an insult men use on each other which does nothing but diminish their dignity.

Down with the mangina!

Jenna Myers Karvunidis

Filed under: !Escandalo!, Menz


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  • fb_avatar

    The definition of a mangina: http://goo.gl/TUiN

  • In reply to Lea Smithee:

    Yeah, thanks. I don't think any of us were experiencing any confusion as to how or why MRA's apply the term mangina to men who aren't MRA's.

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    In reply to SD893:

    No dumbass, it's obvious you're confused because most guys in the MRA are the epitome of the emasculated male (aka "mangina").

  • In reply to Lea Smithee:

    Interesting that feminists do not have a derogatory word for women who are not active in their movement. Maybe men could just respect each other's opinions and win minds with logic.

  • Men can. MRA's won't.

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    the term "bitch" has been around for a long time. Pull your head out of your asshole.

  • In reply to Lea Smithee:

    Also, Lea, I noticed this on the mangina checklist:

    "You have no problem with seeing 2 fags making out,"

    Just to be clear, MRA is not working for the equality of all men, just straight ones. Gotcha.

  • That's because gay ones have everyone else looking out for their rights.

  • This is just hysterical given the events of the past few days...lol You have a new fan in me!

  • In reply to SD893:

    Awesome. Next up, we'll compare and contrast The Game and The Rules.

  • Isn't it "funny" considering the source? Stereotyping, derogatory speech and the like is bad when it's gender based, I mean anti-male, but if it's anti-female it's ok! Yay hypocrisy! Misandry bad, misogyny encouraged!

  • In reply to code14j:

    Exactly. Two wrongs do not make a right. Unless you are supposedly working toward civil rights between the genders?

  • Seriously. Down with using feminizing language to degrade and humiliate men. It is not a bad thing to be a vagina, or a c-u-n-t or woman in any way. Language has power and implying that women are lesser or that men are less when they are like women is not cool.
    The one I am ok with though is Douche. Douches suck big time, they are oppressive to women, unhealthy, unnecessary and generally just a waste of time and money. Just like that person that cuts me off on the highway.

  • In reply to MeganW:

    I agree - why is "vagina" and insult, yet "penis" is not so bad? Double standards, I'll be here all day.

  • Can a chick be a dickhead? Does that count?

  • Wow, you seem like one bored penis...

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    See, you can do it! I applaud your progress toward social equality.

  • Mangina may be new to you, but the word originally gained mainstream attention in 1999 in the movie Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo. It wasn't meant to be demeaning either, it refferred to the main character's skills as a male prostitute( a man-ho). It was said by his mentor that he had a 'magical mangina'. I'm glad I've educated you in the area of mangina's. Check out the movie, very funny.

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    On that topic, WHERE are all the female Johns?! I'm assuming in the cocktail lounge of a dusty casino in Reno but I want to parade those grannies out. Come on. Let's explore who wants sex more. If women are just as likely to commit sexual crimes, it would follow suit they would be just as likely to exploit the sex trade and human trafficking. We need to get to the bottom of this, stat. Help me, Ben. You seem to know things.

  • Hey! Don't go stereotyping and degrading Reno and it's female inhabitants! That makes me all ragey and violent. I'm going to create a registry and catalogue all Reno bigots because its not tru... Oh wait, Reno is a dusty cow town with backward thinking and a really, really unfashionable populace. That's why I usually tell people I live in Tahoe. Never mind!

  • In reply to code14j:

    Ah, shat. You don't really live in NV do you? Great, I have made so many friends this week. Where's my tiara?

    Edit: You should google bomb me for being such a bigot against sex-needing grannies. Wham-bam-gram.com?

  • As my husband pointed out most women don't need to become johns because they don't need to pay. They simply need to put on something kind of revealing and head out to the local club. If they have that "I wanna get some" air (and occasionally if they don't) they will get free cover, free drinks and free sex.

  • In reply to MotherHen:

    If it's free, then there is demand on both sides. Guys at the bar aren't going to buy you drinks and have sex with you for charitable reasons. The demand becomes lopsided when there is no one with a similar desire looking for an even exchange, hence prostitution and rape.

  • In reply to MotherHen:

    And that, in a nutshell, is the side of gender inequality feminists will NEVER give up.

    Feminism is all about keeping the advantage women have, and taking all men's advantages away.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    How are you supposed to give up an "advantage" like that? I never, not once in my entire life, went looking for that scenario. Just because it is available to me does not mean I want to take men's advantages away. Men are taller, should I be mad about that? There's an advantage, but that would be ridiculous.

  • Not once in your life? Please...

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Uh, not everyone feels like dying, getting some nasto disease or procreating with strangers.

  • Sex is only for procreation?

    Uh-oh. I didn't know that. I think I've been doing it wrong, then.

  • fb_avatar

    The advantage is you're using this to distract from the fact that you NEVER made a public apology for vilifying all men.

    You think with emotion, we think with logic, you will never, ever be able to defeat a real man in logic.

    You want sexism? Fine, you want feminism? Fine, you're only going to bring back masculinism tenfold.

    Thats right, because of idiots like you, rights of both men and women are going to go down the toilet.

    What kind of revolting world do you dream of where men act like women and women act like men?

    How does this work out well for humanity?

    Try and get off your pedestal made from putting others down, and have a good look at the horrible way you view around half of mankind.

    I suggest you stop commenting on men alltogether until you reflect on how hateful and ignorant you are towards them.

    You STILL haven't apologised, your half-assed apology was for over reacting, NOT for lumping all men together in one ignorant little package.

    Grow up sister, and get some fucking brains.

  • In reply to Philip Arbon:

    How about this. I'm sorry to everyone except you. Your 12 other comments are banned.

  • Just smile and wave at the crazy people, smile and wave... you can't reason with someone who is paraniod. They don't get a simple truth, we have to protect our children and to do that we have to make judgment calls. What you made was a valid one and we have to make a lot of them. Do all Pitt Bull's bite? No of course not, but I'm not letting my son play with one. You don't go swimming alone no matter how great of a swimmer you are. It's not about trust it's about safety. I was a certified lifeguard and I've still never swam alone. You don't let strangers help your child in the bathroom. Ask any "reasonable" parent if it's OK with them if all the daddies of their kids friends (who they have never met) helps their child in the potty and they will tell you no way. They might be slightly more comfortable with the mommies helping but it's likely that if they thought about it they wouldn't want a succession of strange women doing it either. Why do you give a damn about the rights of a bunch of nasty overblown women hating fanitics. Why should any of us? We have men in our lives who love, respect and agree with us. They can call our husbands all the names they want to but we know they are the "real" men. I'm sorry for whatever happened in the lives of the men who have attacked you to make them act this way. But they are bigots masqurading as "Men's Rights" groups. Ignore them and they will get board and find someone new to bully.

  • In reply to Philip Arbon:

    Also, Phillip Arbon at IP address that part about how the "future is not bright for [me]" and how I deserve "hate" and soon you will have men with you "en masse" I've got saved along with numerous other comments being shown to the authorities. I suggest you stop.

  • fb_avatar

    ps - I didn't mention the authorities, and I was simply trying to warn you, for your own good :)

    Good day.

  • You are clearly a very young girl!

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    I think words for male anatomy should be even MORE of an insult. Men aren't exactly blessed with the most beautiful anatomy, after all. :P

  • In reply to Holly:

    Holy crow... have you ever actually SEEN a (or your) vagina close up holly? Try this... get a little make up mirror thingy, disrobe, then squat and marvel.

    And you think a penis is ugly?

    and no, ugly and incredibly sexually exciting are two very different things. Yay vaginas!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Interesting! So men think vaginas are ugly, and yet it is the goal of their life pursuit. I am learning so many things. And to think I bit when Summer's Eve called it "the vertical smile".

  • it's not that it's ugly TO US jk, it's that in a vacuum of all things aesthetic considered, they are a strange grouping of wrinkled skin and folds complexly wrapped around even stranger elements.

    If you ask any men... well, most men… I think they would say they are beautiful. For those of us (men.. and women I guess) who take the time and effort to master the design (romantically put, I know) the rewards are endless. In summary, to a man, a vagina is probably THE most exciting and enticing structure ever conceived (see how I did that… again?)

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I'll give you a pass just because I'm not so into the aesthetics of vajays myself. Ears are not that attractive to me either. Now TEETH? Those I like. Also hands. And anything babies have.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    ^this is hilarious MB

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    In reply to MB30SD:

    I'd rather see a naked woman than a naked man anyday.

  • In reply to Holly:

    I agree wholeheartedly... but I'm a dude.

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    In reply to Holly:

    Hey cunt can you stop barking? Thanks

  • In reply to Holly:

    More sexism ...... a penis is as beautiful as a vajayjay

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    In reply to Gensunasumus:

    A personal opinion in regards to aesthetics isn't sexism.

  • You show those MRAs honey! who the hell are these MEN to demand an apology from you for being a caring mother? 99% of sexual abuse IS FROM MEN, they fooled you big time honey, stand up for your beliefs don't succumb to them and their threats/bigotry, they put you on a webpage but you exposed them as the bigots and sexists that all feminists fight against! With men like them raising their young boys is it any wonder why girls are doing much better?

    Good to see you've joined our side and I for one, welcome you.

  • In reply to Sarah Angel:

    Cheers, Sarah! I will work as hard as I can!

  • For those who questioned if your apology was sincere or not, I think your response to Sarah Devil answered that. She said "99% of sexual abuse IS FROM MEN" a statistic you now know to be wrong and your only response was "Cheers, Sarah! I will work as hard as I can!"

    As for the MRM hating "fags", yes there are some of those types in the MRM but they don't define the whole movement. Paul Elam himself said "'Keep Gays out of Pre-school Potty Duty'? Might sound good to Pat Buchanan, but no, most of us have moved past Socon idiocies," in the article where he discussed your "apology" http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/an-ambiguous-apology-or-just-bullshit/

    I don't agree with Elam's decision to always acquit a rape suspect, regardless of the evidence, but he does bring up some good points about the injustices stacked against rape defendants. Jury nullification is a legitimate way to deal with tyrannical laws, and while rape is a horrible crime that no serious even semi-sane person doubts should be illegal, the ways in which rape defendants are stripped of protections against the presumption of guilt is also a serious violation of human rights. So, while I don't agree with Paul here, I can certainly understand his reasoning.

    Regarding the word "mangina", well, I don't consider vaginas ugly or a bad thing in general, so I can see why it might not be the ideal way to insult a man. Nonetheless, it has caught on and its widespread recognition makes it a useful term for men who demean themselves and throw other men under the bus in a futile attempt to appease bigoted feminists (which is to say not all feminists, but a disturbingly high proportion). Look up Robert Jensen and Julian Real for archetypal examples. Some MRAs may throw around the term too loosely but then again far too many feminists call women "collaborators" or as Berty said "penis worshippers","patriarchy apologists", etc. just because they don't treat men like shit.

  • In reply to Meadester:

    1. It's not up to me to fact check Sarah Devil. The latter part of her comment was welcoming me to feminism, a topic I am interested in writing about. That was what I was referring to.
    2. So some MRAs hate "fags" but not all. Just rephrasing you.
    3. Paul Elam says to always acquit a rape suspect, but that gets buried under his "better points". Just rephrasing you.
    4. Extreme feminists or anyone advocating violence is nothing I condone.

  • It's not up to me to fact check Sarah Devil. The latter part of her comment was welcoming me to feminism, a topic I am interested in writing about. That was what I was referring to.
    So if someone said 99% of armed robbery is committed by Blacks or, 99% of financial fraud is committed by Jews would you let that stand without correction as well? What about someone saying 99% of child abuse in general is committed by women? Are you starting to get it why such a statement is bigoted, when most non-cherry-picked studies contradict it?

    So some MRAs hate "fags" but not all. Just rephrasing you.
    You missed the crucial point that many MRAs speak out against homophobia. Some, like Glenn Sacks, have been active in supporting gay marriage and gay adoption.

    Many feminists are transphobes. Other feminists do speak out against this, but not many speak out against misandry. The few who do. like Cathy Young or Wendy Mcelroy are often skewered by other feminists. Sometimes MRAs who speak out against misogyny are denounced too, but usually by anonymous or semi-anonymous bloggers and comment posters, not well-known authors, lawyers, and academics. There is no one who has achieved success promoting misogyny the way Catharine MacKinnon, Julie Bindel, Shiela Jeffreys, Gail Dines, etc. have achieved promoting misandry.

    Paul Elam's good points don't bury his decision to always acquit rape suspects but they do put it in context. That context is not that rape is acceptable but that rape suspects can't get a fair trial.

    It's nice to say you don't condone extreme feminists but it would be better if your actions reflected that. For example, not letting their bigoted false statistics to go unchallenged.

  • In reply to Meadester:

    It looks like the community here is doing a great job of keeping each other in check. I do not have the time nor the inclination to suss out every fraud in my blog comments. I try.

  • In reply to Sarah Angel:

    jesus. please take a warm bath... with your fucking toaster.

    The fewer of whateverthehell you are in this world the better. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds sir. You are the embodiment of what you fight against. And you obviously have only enough intellect to regurgitate hackneyed, powerless generalizations that only serve to weaken your inherent position. Man (see how I did that?), your kind is the worst. Like the KKK grand wizard complaining that his parade request has been denied because of bigotry.

    Seriously.... please get to know your Krups in an aquatic environment post haste!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    amen, brother, amen

  • M.A.N.G.I.N.A = Manginas All Need Gwill; I Need Areolas.

  • In reply to gwill:


    Very nice. Is it because the season started? We don't even play you guys this year maing.

  • Wait, is wenus bad because that is what we refer to "it" as in our house:)

  • Jenna Myers Karvunidis....actually true feminists do have a word similar to penis for women who are not feminists. As a Social Worker (yes a university graduate!) who works from a feminist perspective, the term would be "Jenna Myers Karvunidis"..aka...ah, you fill in the blanks. All kidding aside, there is no way in hell you could possibly be considered a feminist, you do not follow the values of feminism...not even radical feminism.

  • In reply to johnthatsme:

    I believe in equal rights for both genders. MRA has no language for equality for women, but feminism in its best form, is for the rights of all. Hence my leaning to that label.

    I never identified as a feminist before recently because I believed the world was fair. I worked in a male-dominated industry, was the only woman in my department and was successful. I used to get in trouble at Jezebel for believing my opportunities were the norm. Work hard = reward. I thought feminists were just mad because they didn't want to work as hard as a man.

    Before last Wednesday, I had never been exposed to the level of hatred against women as exists on Paul Elam's site. But there was a greater point to MRA, that of equality, which is oddly in line with feminism.

  • I call bullshit. Feminism has nothing to do with equality. Never has, never will.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I understand your frustration, but where does a person go who sees both sides of the gender debate and wants equality for all? It's certainly not MRA. That's a misguided train wreck. No offense to you personally, but the movement can't get off the ground until it ditches the dead weight.

    Feminism, on the other hand, when not "radical" addresses equality for both. There was a conversation on Jezebel about changing the name of feminism. I guess it was tongue in cheek, but I thought they really should change the name. "Humanism" is taken and excludes the religious (debatable, but I don't feel like getting into that).

    Peopleism? Sounds hippy.

  • Feminism has done and still does far more damage than any MRA or MRM has or ever will do. I suggest you educate yourself on the amount of damage feminism has done to the relationship of men and women in the past 60 years, infact feminism is so deep that you yourself thought automatically assuming a man wants to molest your child was the correct thing to assume.

    To equal the bigots in the MRA/MRM movement to feminists is just unfair, yeah some of us are filled with hate, some of us are angry and bitter but that's all we are...we don't get policies put into place to harm women nor do the majority of us want to, feminism however does just that, men are second class citizens in comparison to women, that's not an opinion it's a fact, we die younger, we commit suicide 5x more, the education system is drastically failing young boys and noone seems to give a damn, we lose our children, money and property in divorce cases even if it's not our fault, we have no say in reproductive decisions, we're constantly demonized in the media as murdering rapist maniacs, bumbling idiots that can't get anything done without women.

    So sorry if we seem to go hard on you but it's just fucking soul destroying seeing this shit around you everday. The sad part about all this, the really sad part, is I wanted nothing more than to be wrong about you, Jenna, but you've proven me correct, that just reinforces my pessimistic view on this horrible world we live in, you didn't give a fuck about us or our plights, you've now done exactly what Paul said you would, you've turned against us and became our enemy.

    So go ahead and pretend the MRA/MRM is just as bad as feminism, go ahead and fly the flag for feminists, I really did want to believe I was wrong about you, but I was right to know better, hope has no place in reality.

  • In reply to Duran:

    MRM hates "fags" and doesn't believe rape is a crime.

    You say "we" lose children/money etc but Duran you're what? 18? Relax. Life hasn't chewed you up and spit you out yet. You're living through fear.

    Men's interests indeed need to be protected. The system isn't perfect. But spilling rage all over me and the people who read here won't help your cause one bit.

  • MRM does not hate "fags" nor does it believe rape isn't a crime....where the hell did you get these two assumptions from? Cite sources for this please because if that were true I couldn't support such a group.

    Actually I'm 20 but I have a lot of friends who have already been chewed out by the system who are in their late 20s/early 30s. I'm not living through fear but logic, 50% of marriages end in divorce, 90% initated by women. In this day and age, settling down and having children is a coin flip for men, that's the sickening reality of the world we live in today and the ideology behind this sick twisted crap is feminism.

    Yes I know spilling rage over you doesn't help the cause but that doesn't mean it isn't justified, you can't just say the things you said then expect people not to be angry with you.

    You need to realise that the MRM/MRA although not perfect are the only people fighting for men. Yet you, after attacking all men everywhere by assuming we're all child rapists now go on to attack the only movement that's trying to do something to help us....you don't see how fucked up that looks from our perspective? you only need to look around to see men need all the help they can get in this day and age, you also need to realise that Feminism is the route cause of all this damage done to men, hence why alot of MRM/MRAs are anti-feminism, they see it for what it is. You're condemning us for our anger but that's all we are, just a bunch of angry pissed off people, we're not pushing for the oppression of women, we just want equality.

  • In reply to Duran:

    I admire your purity of ambition. Your last sentence tells me we see eye to eye.

    Read down these comments see see the link posted by one of your own that mentions "fags" on a checklist of "mangina" qualities. The rape articles are all on AVfM.

    By all means, send me information about how I can help change things for men in regard to their family rights and I'd love to help. I'd like to address these things on an issue-by-issue basis.

    MRM's biggest problem is the psychotic website run by Paul Elam. The more you revere him as a hero, the worse you look as a whole. Hate speech won't help anyone.

    I do give you credit for coming from anti-misandry. It's not perfect, but it's a much more polished version of what Elam had hoped to do.

  • In reply to Duran:

    Duran - Read this article by Paul Elam. http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/jury-duty-at-a-rape-trial-acquit/
    In it he vows to always vote "not guilty" if he gets on a jury of a rape trial even if the evidence show overwhelmingly that the man is guilty.
    Nice role model.
    It's one thing to want to protect men's rights, it's another to want to protect men's rights over women's rights. It's also bad to protect women's rights over men's rights. Equality should be the goal. I know we are not there yet, but we definitely won't get there with extreme views on either side.

  • That "checklist" has nothing to do with MRA or MRM as far as I can see, infact if you bothered scrolling down a bit further you'd see that same checklist is condemning Paul Elam as a mangina.

    I don't revere Paul Elam as a hero, I've barely just discovered him and his webpage, he may not be perfect, he may not have all the answers but atleast he's doing something to help men, he's trying to help us, noone's perfect but atleast he's doing something.

    As for fighting for mens rights, you had the potential to do something far more powerful than that, in my eyes atleast, but that hope was quickly destroyed, now I'm just left once more with the sobering reality of this world.

  • In reply to Duran:

    I dunno dude, getting to walk around without thinking the random girl selling me my frozen pizza and 30 pack, or the lady who told me which Red Line stop is closest, or whatever, is an individual who might say or do something interesting and is not some kind of inferior mud person or evil harpy is pretty fun and a hell of a lot easier and more relaxing than assuming they're out to get me. I don't feel particularly out-to-be-got. If some stranger thinks I'm up to no good just because I'm a little pointier than she is that's her problem and I'm not gonna take it personally - No sense in two people being uncomfortable.
    It's not like women are going anywhere, so I think that, especially as a straight guy who would be dating them, they might as well be as interesting and worldly and accomplished as possible, and feminism has done a pretty solid job of that so far. Why would I want half the people I deal with to be any more repressed and deferential and boring than absolutely necessary, especially the half I'd be having breakfast with the morning after? Open the throttle on the feminism and let 'em live how they want; I can do my own goddamn laundry.

  • In reply to Jon Lyons:

    I have no idea what you're rambling on about, Jon. lol.


    That article is fucking disgusting, I'd never support such bullshit. As for protecting mens rights over womens, that's simply a neccessity at this point in time, men are second class citizens, every law dealing with men and women favours women over men, even the education system favours girls over boys (I can attest to this) we even die earlier than women, on average, we make up 94% of work related deaths, the list goes on.

    We have very few allies and even fewer political support groups, if I have to ally myself with some bigots then so be it, it's a neccessary evil to combat the utter injustice, sexist, bigoted bullshit that men and boys have to deal with all the time. Feminism is what started this bullshit and feminism is what is causing this hateful reaction you're seeing around you. Feminism has NOTHING TO DO WITH EQUALITY, none, zero. Nada.

  • In reply to Duran:

    Don't ally yourself with a bigot. Urge honest supporters with real ideas to reform your movement and ditch the scary leader.

  • In reply to Duran:


    That "bigot" devotes his life to trying to make mens lives better for all men and boys, he's done more for mens rights than I ever have or most likely, ever will. Who am I or anyone else for that matter to tell this man he has no right being in the position he is? He has bigoted views on certain things, yes, but does this automatically invalidate all he stands for? all the statistics based on reliable sources detailing the shit men have to go through day in day out?

    I have no right to tell him such things. I'd rather condemn the nasty vicious feminists who have caused all this damage than a man who is helping to combat such cancer on our society.

  • In reply to Duran:

    " Who am I or anyone else for that matter to tell this man he has no right being in the position he is? He has bigoted views on certain things, yes, but does this automatically invalidate all he stands for?"

    Really? You are going to condem Jenna for being a bigot because she doesn't want a man she doesn't know taking her daughter to the bathroom, but you don't believe that your idol should be held accountable for his bigoted view? You feel that he is a great man in so many ways that he is above the rules you set for lesser mortals?

    Stand up and hold everyone to the same standards. Don't follow blindly. There is no person or group who is perfect. Nothing says you have to agree with every point or you are a traitor. Sadly your comments make it sound like you have been brainwashed.

    "We have very few allies and even fewer political support groups, if I have to ally myself with some bigots then so be it, it's a neccessary evil to combat the utter injustice, sexist, bigoted bullshit that men and boys have to deal with all the time"

    Stop treating women as a whole like the enemy. Most of us love men with all their faults. We long to be loved to spite ours. In the end both men and women are just struggling to live in harmony when our brains work in two vastly different ways. Much as we try we often just don't get you. I'm sure the feeling is mutual. But in the end we need each other. When things go right we compliment each other. Our soft to your hard. Your hills to our valleys. We remind you that cuddling up on a cold night makes you feel good and you remind us that sometimes it's great to get down and dirty. Of course sometimes it's the other way around, but for the most part you hunt and we gather (says the lady who hunts) we nurture and you protect. If we didn't have someone to bring balance into our lives how sad would the world be.

    When you feel that a war with any one group of people (in your case women) is justified because you don't agree with the actions of a few, you have crossed the line. When you feel that any means is justified by the end results, you have crossed a line.

    Step back and look at what you stand for and don't put up with others who would try to make you believe it's all or nothing. I don't have to put up with things I know are wrong from anyone just because they are trying to accomplish something I beleive is right. My son is not in danger from women or men as a whole. But he is in danger from fanitics who would try to convince him that what he believes needs to be tossed out the window for the greater good. He is in danger from those who have him believe that he should trust anyone over his own gut. My son is 4 and he has known since 2 that no one touches his privates without his permission. Not a teacher, not a friends parent, not his daddy and not me.

    I don't have him in preschool but if I did no way would I want someone I don't know helping him in the bathroom. But if I had to choose unless I felt uncomfortable for some reason I would play the odds and choose a woman. It doesn't make me a biggot any more than telling my son to walk on the sidewalk not swale does.

    You can twist the facts all you want and claim that men don't report as often as women, but the truth is that men are sexual abusers much more often then women and a huge precentage of women don't report so it's only guesses on that part. I don't see where the numbers you quoted say "reported sexual assults" so is there a chance that your 25/75% numbers already took that into account?

    It may not seem fair and some of it may have to do with the fact that yes a huge percentage of women can just walk into a bar and have her choice of men, but then how can you complain when you have the choice to turn her down, but are usually hoping that she will choose you. It's the way you are and I'm not trying to change it. As long as it's a mutual desire. The problem comes in when it's not. Can a man be aroused against his will and raped, yes. But not always and a woman can alway be forced against her will without the man needing to arouse her. As a rule women are weaker and less willing or able ito fight too. We have also been brought up to beleive that it might be our fault, because of the way we dressed or acted. I was drugged by a guy I'd been dating for months and it wasn't until years later that I realized that I'd been drugged and that when I said no and he didn't stop it was rape. I spent all those years condeming myself for having 2 drinks and letting him go to far when I should have been blaming him, since he knew I was waiting until I got married. He never even called after that. Did I turn into a man hater because of it. No because even then I had lots of male friends and I realized that one mans actions don't mean that all men are the same. But I did loose a little faith in the feeling that most men are good and decent and that I was a good judge of who was safe and who wasn't. Because you can't just look at someone and tell who the good ones are. But you can look at those who spew hate over and over and know that they are not the good ones. Jenna is not the enemy. She is just a woman and a mother who is doing her best in this scary world. You are condeming her because she was afraid for her child and dosen't know who the boogy (wo)man is. Becareful that you don't frighten or intimadate someone into ignoring the fact that there is evil out there and cost a child a lifetime of pain because you told their mother or father to trust every one.

  • I agree with posters regarding the damage Feminism or more accurately those who abuse it's philosophies have caused. The truth is, this debate would not be happening were it not for the work of Feminists. Services that today are a norm would not be available were it not for the work of Feminists. The problem with your original post is being duplicated here. People are painting a whole group with the same paint brush. Whenever you hear the statement..."All" you know you are going to hear propaganda, nothing more. So those who claim all Feminists are evil are misguided, just as someone who claims all men are evil or perpetrators. There are issues with society and the finger gets pointed justifiably on both sides.

  • In reply to johnthatsme:

    so you mean she's a logical reasonable human being?

    any ism is bad... didn't you ever see animal house?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I can't control what you take from my statement, I can only provide you with feedback that either supports what you believe I have said is correct, or let you know your assumptions do not reflect my meaning. Could you please highlight where I stated that "she's a logical reasonable human being." If you can't find it, then most likely those are your words and have no bearing on my words at all.

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    Actually, feminists have plenty of shaming tactics at hand to silence opposition to their hate campaigns against men.

    One of them is to accuse the man of being a paedophile just waiting to get in her daughter's panties (ring any bells, Jenna?)... while others include such terms as 'closet homo', 'living in momma's basement','misogynist', 'pu$$y envy' and a host of other derogatory terms.

    For women, they are often called 'penis worshippers','patriarchy apologists', and when these fail they resort to claiming the women are in fact men pretending to be women (because in their sexist minds, no woman could possibly believe men deserve equality or fairness, so it must be a man pretending, right?)

    Further, we do not discourage men who are not in our movement by calling them names - you're confusing this with occasions when you have seen 'token women' men or 'white knights' who do a strong disservice to men by pretending that women are practically incapable of wrong-doing.

    Men who praise misandry (feminists) and men who aren't MRA's are nothing even close to the shame.

    Once again, Jenna, you are spreading lies through your blog.

  • In reply to Berty Bassett:

    Interesting you bring up the "undercover women" aspect of this conversation because oddly, the only people I have seen who a) brought identity deception up and b) turned out to actually be of a differing gender than they represent themselves in comments was in fact MRA.

  • Extremely weak, Jenna, and a near perfect confirmation of the very point the poster was making. Since you have no refutation of the point, you simply make accusations about the poster.

    I'd laugh were it not so pathetic.

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    Jenna - you've made my point for me. Thank you.

    I recall not too long back I was on another feminist site where they were doing all in their power to insist feminists do not promote anti-male attitudes. I pointed them to another feminist where one poster had suggested killing off men and not ONE feminist spoke out against it. Sure it was ignored by many, but NONE actually had the gumption to do anything. I pointed the first group to another (different) feminist site where several feminists had made the suggestion to castrate male babies until men are wiped out.

    The feminist response to this? Blame men.
    Yes, one of them actually went on to claim to the effect of (paraphrased) "while the people writing those things might have female-like names, they're most likely men saying it" - she did not answer my questions after this A) Why do you blame men for women's wrong-doings and B) why did no 'real feminist' (assuming it was men pretending to be women) speak out against it?

    Now, over time I have seen MANY instances where women condone or promote violence against men and even pushed for death in some cases. Why do feminists NOT ban these people - why are they happy to be associated with them?

    On my site - I ban the radicals.
    (e.g. http://antimisandry.com/members/timothy-turner/ <--- read the posts by this guy and also note how he has the word 'banned' by his avatar, indicating MRA's do NOT condone hatred agaisnt women - but feminists PROMOTE hatred against men... just as you have done)

  • In reply to Berty Bassett:

    Did you see the newest RH profile? The woman who advocates chopping off the penises of those who do you wrong? HORRIBLE.

    As for my "hatred of men" you really need to let it die, Bert. You know that was not my intention. I'm not in the middle of all the usual feminism/MRA showdowns so I can't speak to all that. If they did what you say, then that's wrong.

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    Yes JMK, I saw it and have posted about it on my site's own small bigot-section.

    I don't know anything about your intentions - I do, however, know about the result of your actions (which spread lies about men as a group - which has been repeated by your feminist supporter in the comments above which you have declined to correct her on, despite knowing better).

    If I saw a woman being raped - should I do something or walk on by and ignore it, let someone else sort it out?
    If you see feminists telling lies in order to demonize men - should you do something about it or walk on by and ignore it, thus allowing new readers to be misinformed by bigoted & sexist comments from feminists?

  • In reply to Berty Bassett:

    The result of my actions are that people outside your limited sphere are now considering any of your points. I'll take my fruit basket.

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    We all have limitations to our scope... I used to be very pro-feminist, until I realised just how misandric it was. I expanded my scope a long time ago.

    Enjoy your fruit-basket, whatever that may mean.

  • In reply to Berty Bassett:

    Oh, you must have missed that whole thing. Paul Elam got all up in arms because the men at Reddit said I deserved a fruit basket for shining a little media light on their cause. (Well. That lasted about a second and I think they're back to wanting my head on a stick. C'est la vie.)

  • Some men suffer from Mangina Pectoris. Also known as "pigeon chest".

  • In reply to Andy Frye:

    ^^^I think my gay uncle suffered from this before he joined the circus

  • WOW!!! The anger and hatred here is terrible. Why even bother apologizing to those crazy men?
    Bottom line, anything that makes you feel better about your daughter's safety is ALL that matters!! My boys are a little younger than your daughter and your blog about bathroom safety actually gave me a lot to think about.
    It is TRUE that most sexual predators are men. It is true that sexual predators will go and work, hang out, etc around the people that they want to "use". Anyone that gets pissed by this.....well, it is beyond me!
    Because most men are not predators is NOT a reason to throw in the towel and not overprotect your daughter (I am not saying you are, I just don't get what these crazy men posting on your blog want!)

    You crazy men want something else to be pissed about??!! I won't hire men to watch my toddlers. Sorry, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. You know why?? Because men are typically the predator, not a woman. Yes, I am sure some women are, but more men are than women. So I am willing to hedge my bets and hire only women to watch my children. I background check my employees and also check the predator site, but the chances of a woman being a predator are much less than the chance of a man being a predator. I don't care if that is insulting to ANYONE. My children deserve my overprotectiveness!

  • In reply to ejmeyer:

    Here Here!! I agree 100%

    Anyone stop to think of the rights of these children who are being sexually assaulted?? Where is the MRA/MRM version for them? Most preditors that are arrested in Children porn ring are MALE! That doesn't mean that ALL men are preditors or abusers - but how do you teach your child that this man is fine to touch your privates and this one isn't?

    Dam right I wouldn't allow a "volunteer" take my child to the bathroom.

    We are suppose to be adults here - what's a little hurt ego for the greater good and safety of our children.... Seriously!!!

  • In reply to SoleyMe:

    ejemey and SoleyMe, you're both fucking sick. Seriously, you're fine with a woman taking your child to the bathroom yet you automatically assume a man will molest your child? Then you turn around and wonder why men get angry about this? Did you even read the part where the men at her pre-school all had CHILDREN OF THEIR OWN attending that pre-school and that they were all vetted beforehand.

    Why do you think men are evil? What the hell is your issue with them? Does this mean you wouldn't let the father of your children clean your kid?

    I'm sick of people like you in this world, you disguise your anti-male, feminist sentiment under the guise of "PROTECTING THE CHILDREN" this has been a common tactic used in law against men for decades now to reduce our rights.

    If men are so bad why don't you just fuck off and leave us alone, go start your own fucking society without us.

  • In reply to Duran:

    No one is assuming every man would molest a child. The problem is if the child WERE to be targeted by a predator, that predator would most likely be a man (Fine, split hairs 99% vs. some other majority. molestationprevention.org wasn't a good enough source for MRM I guess) and we don't want our daughter getting super comfy with friends' dads in the bathroom stall.

    Let's get in the habit of letting the PARENTS decide who should take their child to the toilet.

    As I said, MRM's front line battle should not start here.

    ALSO have you read up on international adoption laws? The rules for single men adopting are stricter than those for families and women. It isn't because the agencies hate men, it's because their first interests are the kids. Put them on the registry! Citizen's arrest!

  • In reply to Duran:

    Actually, I never said I wouldn't want a "male" to take my child to the bathroom - I don't want ANY volunteer to take my child potty alone.

    One recent example


    Scouts??!! Parents send their kids off to scouts only to be plied with alcohol and abused on numerous occasions. THEN when the children tell someone they are payed off to keep quiet. Wouldn't want these poor men to embarressed or prosecuted! What happened to these men? They were sent to a different branch of scouts!

    I don't believe men are bad - I'm married to one whom I love and respect beyond words, just as he does me. We are equals in our relationship. We both work, support our family and care for our kids & home. I don't believe I am better then him and vice versa. I don't believe any gender is better then the other. And No I'm not a feminist!! I'm a mom of 4 kids who will do everything and anything in my power to protect my kids, even if that means stepping on someone's toes - Male OR female.

  • In reply to SoleyMe:

    Amen. And it ain't the nuns causing trouble in the Church, either.

  • I'll have to tell that to a friend who was molested by a nun. She'll be glad to know that you know more than she does.

  • In reply to MotherHen:

    Oh sure, you've been against me this whole time and now you conveniently have a friend molested by a nun. Okay. I'll tell you what, that is indeed a very interesting story and if your friend wishes to tell it, she may have my platform as a guest blogger for the day. Have her email me at high.gloss.chicago@gmail.com, I'll vet her and give her the stage. If true, it sounds like the story needs to be heard.

  • I actually haven't been against you the whole time, you might want to reread the comments to your mea culpa. What I'm against is your extremist comments and complete disregard for the fact that yes, women DO commit sexual crimes.

    I'll ask my friend if she would like to post a guest post, but given the fact that you are still making these assinine statements after you supposedly learned from the backlash, I doubt she'll do it. As it is her life it's for her to decide. She was interviewed for the book Habits of Sin. You might want to check it out.

  • I have emailed my friend your offer with a link to this post.

    In addition to my last comment I have to again state that I'm not against you. It seems you take any disagreement with your opinion as being against you. They are two separate things. The first leads to honest conversation. The second leads to nothing of intellectual value. I hope that you truly do not believe that everyone who disagrees with your views is against you. I can not imagine living a life where I was in conflict with anyone who stated a belief opposite mine, even on a single topic. It would do nothing to further the things I believe in and would actually harm those causes and the people I care about. Not to mention the physiological effects of the hormones secreted in response to the perceived conflict. Maybe there is a peace in believing you are right at all costs. Maybe this is a result of the harm you suffered. Either way you aren't making yourself any better, or your children any safer, by baiting and battling MRAs or ignoring that extremists on BOTH sides exist and do harm. You certainly do nothing to advance your argument. In fact you risk making the argument for your opponent.

    I wish you peace.

  • In reply to MotherHen:

    I agree that women CAN be sexual offenders. Does it occur at the same rate as male offenders? No. It's not that crime itself is so unbalanced as a whole, its the sexual crimes are indeed less likely to be committed by women.

    Further, I did not ignore that extremists on both sides are harmful. Please see my comment to John (?) that in no way do I condone violence. Another woman was put on the registry a few days ago because she advocated for the chopping off of penises of men who drive you crazy, citing an example of a Vietnamese woman who did just that. She called her "bad ass". Seriously, how effed up is that? There's a violent woman right there, both the chopper and the woman who blogged about it.

  • In reply to Duran:

    Not sure why all of your replies need to contain malicious verbal attacks. Are you unable to maintain a civil conversation or debate without filling it with explicit words and attacks? I don't believe I called you any type of derogatory names nor was I rude to you in any form. I would have more respect for your position if you were able to maintain a mature debate...

  • In reply to SoleyMe:

    Seriously, and being blacklisted by being stereotyped as a dangerous deviant at least has an element of the exotic and forbidden about it. "I won't hire you because you might rape my kids" is a little more glamorous than the presumably equally-stinging "I won't hire you because you might get your period or something and screw everything up with your 'feelings'" - I mean, there's a reason Chris Hansen's show isn't called "To Catch a Period".

  • In reply to Jon Lyons:

    Jon, you're an idiot, stop posting.


    You should read this:

    "75% of sexual predators are male and 25% are female.

    86% of the victims of female sexual predators aren't believed, so the crimes go unreported and don't get prosecuted.

    Considering these facts, arrest statistics for child sexual offenders by gender are meaningless.

    From "The Sexual Abuse by Women of Children and Teenagers"

    UK TV programme - Panorama - BBC1 - 10 pm Monday, October 6th, 1997"

  • In reply to Duran:

    I was physically assaulted my freshman year in college. I told the RA, who never reported it to the school and of course the police never knew. The guy lived across from me and I was scared out of my mind he'd do it again if I made a fuss. I lived the entire semester in fear. That is just one example of an unreported male abuse situation, so I know from 1st hand, under-the-radar incidents go both ways.

  • You're refusing to acknowledge the point, I can't argue with you if you're so set in your ways, sorry. I suggest you read this webpage and atleast attempt to educate yourself on the matter:


    Notice how this is a childrens rights webpage and has nothing to do with MRM/MRA or feminism?

    As for your example, are you really trying to say men accused of sexual crimes are less believed than when women are accused? Your own original bigotry already contradicts that notion. Sad if you can't see the truth and are so set in believing men are horrible, evil creatures.

  • In reply to Duran:

    That might be true in the wider, meaning-of-it-all sense, but down here in the day-to-day I'm not too big of an idiot to see how feminism has improved both the work and social lives of me and everyone I know and care about.
    Every time I hear older generations of both men and women talk about their experiences in the world before feminism it sounds like an overdone parody of a mean family from a Roald Dahl book ...Actually, considering the amount of drugs people were doing back in the '60s and '70s I wouldn't be surprised if feminism really DID look like a giant flying peach that took them away from all that.

  • In reply to Jon Lyons:

    Feminism has NOT improved anything, it's almost irreparably damaged the bond between men and women, forever.

    I could educate you on the matter but I doubt you'd learn.

    I'll give you a slight benefit of the doubt though:


    You can start with that, it's only the tip of the iceberg, sadly.

  • In reply to Duran:

    When are the times you'd like to harken back to? Before women could vote? When we used to be dragged back the cave by our hair? And what do you know of the bond between men and women anyway, between the two of us, I'm the one in a happy marriage.

  • I wouldn't like to harken you back to any time, why do you just assume all women were oppressed by men? Have you actually researched history outside of feminist revisionist bullshit? I bet you think women only got the vote in the 1960s, right?

    I really can't be bothered to give you an educational lesson on history, just put it this way, all the shit you've heard, all the shit you believe about women being oppressed, the majority of it is bullshit.

    Also, why is it you can only see the so called "benefits" of feminism yet refuse to acknowledge all the damage it's caused to men and boys? Are you saying the damage done to men is justified due to the benefits gained by women?

    As for your marriage, I'm happy for you and your husband, I wish you nothing but the best, I hope you have a great life together and die old in a comfortable enviroment, together. None of that changes the fact that the relationship between men and women HAS been damaged by feminism though. You've displayed exactly that point with your aggressive nature towards a vetted father helping your daughter go to the toilet.

    It's plain as day to me that we're never going to see eye to eye on this so I'll just leave you with this point:

    If you ever have a son, he's going to be 5x more likely to commit suicide than your daughter, it's far more likely that he will leave school with far inferior grades and qualifications than your daughter, there's a far bigger chance that he will be divorced by his partner and lose his children/assets than your daughter, he will be subject to the draft, your daughter won't, he's far more likely to be the victim of a homocide than your daughter, he will most likely die younger than your daughter, he will be sentenced more harshly for crimes than your daughter etc etc etc

    If you're fine with all that because feminism some how "liberated" women, then so be it.

    @SoleyMe, you was singing a completely different tune in your original post.

  • Okay Jenna, all the best with your superior life and education, I'm just a sad little kid with no education and an IQ of 85. Fair enough. I bid you adieu.

  • In reply to Duran:

    I apologize. That wasn't nice of me. But your tone is so aggressive it puts people on the defense. I want to listen to you, but its so LOUD.

  • In reply to Jon Lyons:

    Sucks doesn't it?! My husband works in a male dominated industry to which a lot of women aren't hired because they get pregnant *gasp* Here in Canada mothers (and fathers) are allowed 1yr paid Mat leave. Many employers don't want women in childbearing years because of this ... is it fair? Hell no!

    I think the bigger picture here is the nursery school needs to re-evaluate their bathroom protocol. There should never be one adult taking a child to the bathroom. There should be at least 2 adults at all times - I would have no problems with this.

  • eeeewww.. feminists are.... gross.

  • I cannot speak of the specific impact of feminism on other communities as a non-member of those communities but as a woman of color I can speak of its impact on my community. Our community has long been held hostage by feminist ideologues. Many feminist would have society believe that anti the ideology is the equivalent of anti-woman. The two are not synonymous.

    I first began my advocacy of creating an awareness of the negative impact of feminism on society (the black/brown community in particular) in the early years of my clinical practice and in various academic circles.I began to see a paradigm shift that led to less gender neutrality in various treatment modalities. This shift was parallel to the “change” that was taking place in society’s feminist influenced thinking as a whole. The shift to focusing exploration of womens issues in the context of their relationship to the men in their lives was indicative of society’s eventual progression towards the current “blame game” that takes place in many gender focused discussions. We began emphasizing accountability for men while extending them very little compassion. This was ruthless of course and it is respecting men but not necessarily loving them. On the other hand society began to emphasize compassion for women while extending them very little accountability.. it is infantilizing and it is loving women but not necessarily respecting them. (Goldich, 2011)

    There are a number of byproducts of this but perhaps one of the most dmaging to my community has been the pivot away from referring to unwed mothers in my community as such to being lumped in with divorced mothers and widows for the now all encompassing term "single mother". With this for example came the unintended consequence of empowering generations of women towards acceptance of the current “babymama” phenomena. You see referring to an unwed mother as a single mother is empowering in that it createss the narrative of a “strong black woman that made it in spite of…”. So if a child attends college it is the testatment of the strength of a single mother..if the same child were to become incarcerated it is an indictment of the colossal failure of men/fathers. Unbelieveable! Another uninteneded consequence is the current “boy crisis” where the education disparity is growing, male suicide is increasing and the anti-male bias and bashing in society continues to become common practice.

    These idealogues no longer push for equality but they dominate the dialogue that has led to both subtle and overt notions of men=bad, women=good. I am old enough to remember a time when the social contract that had existed for thousands of years between man and woman was the crux of healthy communities. No, everything was not perfect, but children were more likely to be raised within the structure of family. The current conflicts between men and women and the subsequent break down of black family was not as prevalent as it has become. Something happened as the women’s liberation movement began to push more aggressively for “equality” and for the rights of women to have their roles evolve in society. With this push the social contract was broken on one side. While men continued to be held to an expectation that would honor their side of the social contract, radical feminist ideologues began to reshape the thinking of society with growing influence in many areas including education, policy and in my personal experience even the feminization of psychology. for the record I am not some right wing, family values nut job.

    Feminist began to assert the notion that patriarchal oppression was responsible for many of society’s ills and at its most radical end that the social contract that had protected marriage and family was merely constructed for the benefit of those that sought to keep women “oppressed.” We swallowed hook line and sinker and began enjoying rights without responsible which is best characterized in the feminist mantra “my body my choice”….someone elses responsibility? And what do we have to show for being “sexually liberated” with COMPLETE control over reproduction (20+options for birth control pre-conception and access to safe abortions or adoption post conception)? An illigitimacy rate that increased exponentially over several decades aggresively approaching 8 in 10 while we continue to reduce it to merely a "need for black men to man up." Our community has been held hostage by feminist idealogues for decades and we now see the detrimental impact of buying into this ideology and the subsequent policies.

    Oh and these young men may not be able to fully understand the message but they are starting to demonstrate more outward objections to the comparative difference in expectation that society has place on them. But one will never hear this injected into conversations regarding equality by idealogues. What is coming, is the tipping point where men and boys will inevitably begin to aggressively “push back.” A society that despises its men runs the risk of creating a society of despicable men. The good thing is that there are a growing number of men and women that no longer will accept the lowered expectations and dependency upon these ideologues that have contributed to the rapid deterioration of our families, community, values and subsequent economic decline.

    I have stood in the trenches alongside many men in the fight for a womans right to “choice”… these men that fight so passionately would have their rights not even welcome in discussions regarding reproduction by the very women for whom they fight so passionately. There is a growing coalition and together we can achieve true equality for all that “TRULY BELIEVE” in fairness. We can no longer dismiss our mens voices from the discussion focusing on their behavior without any exploration of the underlying causes, their feelings, and continue to make assumptions about their feelings. Feminism has contributed largely in part to the current gender conflicts and hurts in our community. A sentiment expressed by a few in my field of study is the idea that “hurt people, hurt people.” We are hurting in our community and as it stands now we continue the cycle without ever really looking at some of the real problems.

    Do a little research, work on increasing our capacity for perspective taking, engage in more objective dialogue, seek truth and share .

    A sista long tired of of the devastation exacted on my community by feminism.

  • In reply to Natalie:

    VERY interesting! Thank you so much for your insightful input! I hope to reread and fully digest this later tonight.

  • In reply to Natalie:

    Very powerful post Natalie

  • In reply to Natalie:

    Natalie, I cannot thank you enough for these words. You have said stated the issue beautifully. Very wise words!

  • Thanks guys @ john and james. Just tryimg to do my part. My sons will live in a world that loves and respects them for who they are and not merely what they do for rsociety. How can I not be concerned with mens issues when I am a mother to boys a sister to brotjers a niece to uncles a wife to my wonderful husband etc. the men in my life are firefighters social workers preachers soldiers, some are activist some are not some are employed some are not some are gay so,e are straight. One thing that they all are is wonderful men and not the opressive monsters that some would have us believe they are. And I want to applaud you jenna for your post on cafemom.

  • In reply to Natalie:

    Re: Cafe mom, after reading that I can see why there is a registry. And while I understand I offended (and continue to offend) people with my view that bathrooms should be separate for the sexes including kids and that parents have the final decision for their own children, Cheering cutting off a penis?? How sick is that? Put her on there. I'm mad I'm even in the same pot because I don't advocate any violent means and I'm trying to amend my mistake.

    Men get the short end of the stick in a lot of ways. I agree. Feminism isn't perfect and as I've said, I had major problems with it in the past. I just don't think girls' potties should be the front line for men's rights. Let's work on something more attainable, like recognizing female violence.

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    What is a mangina: http://goo.gl/TUiN

  • In reply to Lea Smithee:

    Wow, you changed the word "fags" to "guys". How progressive of you, Lea Smithee.

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