Should we beware of the Booze?

I find that frequently, people can talk themselves into anything, and I see many people talking themselves into the idea that Carlos Boozer was the big man we wanted all along or that we were blessed to miss out on Bosh and get Boozer instead.

Let me asure you, that is most certainly not the case.  If we wanted Boozer all along, then we wouldn’t have waited for Bosh to say no before signing him.

I’m not arguing that Boozer was a bad signing.   When so much was sacrificed for this season, you make that signing 10 times out of 10.   There was no one better left on the board and relative to other contracts handed out, Boozer’s deal wasn’t nearly so eye poppingly bad as say Joe Johnson’s or Amare Stoudemire’s.

Also, at that moment, we still believed we were in the LeBron James sweepstakes and bringing Boozer on board soldified our team as an immediate title favorite if LeBron were to join.

All that said, Boozer brings a truckload of baggage with him, and I’m not even talking about the handshake deal he reneged on with Cleveland.   I might reneg on an illegal handshake deal for 30 million as well, and Cleveland deserves what they got for trying to circumvent the CBA with illegal negotiations.

Let’s just look at his history with Utah though.   Boozer made roughly 11.5 million a season in Utah, and the Jazz were looking to trade him virtually every season he was there.   Despite playing at a high level, he’d worn out his welcome almost immediately.  They never ended up pulling the trigger, but Boozer was 23-28 years old over those seasons, putting up 20/10 seasons, and constantly on the trade block at 11.5 million.

We’re now paying him 15 million a seasons for years 29-33.   How likely do you think it is that Boozer plays better over the next five seasons than the previous six?

It starts with the injuries.   Boozer’s missed most of two seasons and almost half of another in his six years in Utah.   He’s not likely to get healthier as he ages, and management has let it known that they felt he milked injuries.    You have to figure it’s likely the Bulls lose out on almost two full seasons out of the five Boozer is under contract due to injury related problems.

I think it may be telling that the Utah fans, by and large, don’t seem upset to see Boozer leave and were ready to push him out the door for much of his time there.   There was quite the argument over this fact on my top 10 rankings, but the Utah fans I’ve spoken to over the years have never been enamoured with Boozer.  Perhaps the injury issue killed their trust, perhaps Boozer is to Karl Malone as Gordon is to Jordan, and they had unrealistic expectations of what a PF should do.

We can debate the reasons, but not the outcome.  Jazz fans weren’t begging him to stay, and I believe they’re being honest when they think Al Jefferson will come in and help them more than Boozer (I think they’ll be sorely disappointed, but I don’t think they’re lying).

If you look at Boozer’s +/- profile, you’ll find he was a net negative on the court.  This would seem to back up the Jazz fan belief that Boozer wasn’t a real difference maker, and he certainly wasn’t the engine of their team by any stretch.   That said, +/- stats aren’t very reliable year to year, and teams with great depth at a position (like Millsap backup up Boozer) often have skewed +/-s due to the backups having easier matchups particularly in a case like Boozer where his raw +/- is still positive.

Still, it adds some context to what Jazz fans have been saying for years.  Boozer simply isn’t making that big an impact on the game in their opinion.

Let’s not get too down though. Boozer, when healthy fits perfectly with our needs.  We need the big, strong, physical body setting screens for Derrick Rose.  This should free Rose up, giving him far more space to work with.

We need the big man who can create down low and hit a mid range jumper to play in pick and pop situations.   In the past, in a pick and roll, it was an automatic double team on Rose with the opponent daring the Bulls to make Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, or Brad Miller beat them which they sometimes did, but it took the ball out of our best players hands and put it into the hands of fairly pedestrian offensive players.  With Carlos Boozer, that doesn’t happen.

While the Bulls rebound well, they needed a physical defensive rebounder, and Boozer supplies that. Noah does a great job on the offensive glass, and Taj Gibson improved as the year went on, but if tehre was one issue the Bulls had on the glass it was that they could get shoved around at times, and Boozer’s the type of player who won’t get shoved around on the defensive glass.

Whatever flaws Boozer has, it was a good signing under the circumstances.  They didn’t break the bank, and David Lee, who also could be accused of empty numbers, was the only othe reasonable alternative to fill our needs, and while I trust Lee to give a strong effort for 5-6 years and stay healthy much more so than Boozer he doesn’t provide physical rebounding and pick setting and isn’t as dangerous an offensive creator.

Could this completely backfire and turn into an Elton Brand like situation?   It probably can’t be that bad simply because Boozer’s contract isn’t that bad, and he’s a couple years younger than Brand when signing it so the physical decline won’t be as great.   Still, there’s reason to be wary of this thing going south if Boozer gets banged up, and history says he will.

This isn’t a pre-emptive strike at management if this blows up though.  You have to take chances like this, and I’m glad the Bulls did.  I’ll be glad the Bulls took the shot even if failed, because I don’t see a better reasonable alternative at this point, and I won’t kill them with hindsight thinking in a couple years. 

So while I think signing Boozer was the right thing to do, I’m also walking into the situation with eyes wide open to the possibility of it not working out.   There’s as good a chance of Boozer being an all-star in two years as there is that we’re desperately trying to dump his contract.


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  • Doug, I'm trying to figure out what the point of this was. You're talking out both sides of your mouth. Either you like the move or you don't. Obviously it can fail. Signing Lebron James can fail.

    The question is: was the risk worth it? I guess you're answering 'yes' to that, but then I really don't see the point in everything else that was written.

    I don't think we were waiting on Bosh purely because he was better. That was more a situation where management was keeping their options open. At least I hope that was the case. The real heartbreaker of the offseason is that we didn't get Lebron or Wade, not that we didn't get Bosh instead of Boozer.

    To me, the difference between the two is negligible. Sure, you'd rather have Bosh because he's younger and has a few more physical attributes, but it's far from devastating. Once Lebron went to Miami with D Wade, everything else was just a sidenote. We did the best we could, really (although I still would've liked to see management give Redick a Wes Matthews type offer)

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    Wow, I think that you are way off base. This was a great post. Bulls fans are definately "talking" themsleves into Boozer. I am just as guilty as anybody.

    Nobody was clamoring for Boozer prior to the Decision. Now we are acting like this is what we wanted all along.

    The fact that Utah fans seemed to want to get rid of him for most if not all of his time there really worries me, and does make me think that I am putting too optimistic of a spin on his signing.

    That said, I was never a Bosh fan, I think he is a long tall softie, if not an outright pussy.

  • Perhaps I have not been paying attention but I have heard little about the arguable positives of Boozer being out so much with "injuries." Perhaps like Grant Hill's extended career, this can turn out to be good for the Bulls. Wasn't it Indiana Jones who said "it's not the years, but the mileage."

  • It is my personal opinion that the Bulls were not really sold on Bosh - but knew that he was good friends with both Wade & James. The Bulls were more than willing to sign Bosh to a max deal if it meant getting either of those stars to join the Bulls.
    The Bulls did talk with Boozer too. Whether they preferred Boozer to Bosh is speculative. I think they probably did - because he comes a lot cheaper & fills a team need. The fact that Boozer was signed so quickly after the "Decision" and for a relative bargain, considering the asking price of Bosh & Amare, indicates that Boozer was a prime target.
    People will constantly say that they would rather have Bosh - but Bosh had no interest in coming here. He was going to follow Wade & there was nothing we could do about it (although his plans were not clear at the time).

  • In reply to bulls6:

    They actually agreed to terms with Boozer prior to the decision. As Doug speculates, the Bulls probably believed they were still in the running for Lebron, and thought having Boozer on board would help their position.

  • In reply to bulls6:

    Its not like the younger Bosh hasnt been injured in his young career he even babied it up last year because he didnt want to play until he could join his boyfriend in Miami. I'm okay with Boozer, he wasnt my first or second choice, but the bulls practically improved every position on the court, you cant ask for much more, and most of the time injuries are out of the player's control. I think Boozer was the right choice and a good pick up, even if injuries are bound to come.

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    Agreed. Wasnt my first choice, but at the value contract we got him on I was very happy. What other choice did they have? Like Snypershawn said, they improved at nearly every position. This would have been seen as a major coup in the NBA in any other offseason. Cant help what the super friends decided to do 2 years ago.

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    I wanted Bosh to begin with, but that being said, Bosh at max vs boozer at a deal, Id almost take boozer. I'd be lying if I didnt feel boozer was the consolation prize between the 3 big targets though.

    Bosh has had injury's before, is a bit of a pre madonna / douche (really apparent now), and completely threw in the towel on his team at the end of the season (like Labron).

    Booz has acted like he's wanted to come here for a while. We finally have a legitimate 20/10 PF to work with Rose / Noah / Deng. If anything this just takes a TON of pressure off of Rose getting double teamed. Bulls had a great off season. Miami obviously had the best.

  • In reply to Vohaul79:

    Miami's off-season could get even better if they convince center Erick Dampier to sign after Charlotte waives him. Center is Miami's one weak spot.

  • In reply to Edward:

    why wouldn't the Bulls also target him?

  • In reply to UnstopaBull:

    He's not going to make anywhere near what he made last season ... over 13 million I think ...

    But he reportedly turned down 2.2 million to come back to Charlotte ... and if he really does want more than that, neither the Heat or the Bulls will be able to sign him.

    If not, ... If he's willing to sign for the minimum to win a championship ... then sure, go after him.

  • In reply to UnstopaBull:

    Everything is on paper right now guys, lets get the season started first before we say where the Bulls will be ranked in the east. I think it will ultimately come down to match ups and defense with the teams in the east. Yes a few of these teams look really good on paper, but as long as a team matches up well with another team on the court, that will be the difference between a team winning and losing and the Bulls with the roster that they have now, will match up very well with every team in the east as long as the defense and rebounding is there.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Boozer has had some injuries ... but let's be realistic, it happens to lots of players.

    Is Boozer better than Bosh? Numbers suggest that Bosh is just a touch better. Realistically Bosh's numbers are going to dip quite a bit this year. Boozer should have much better numbers than Bosh this year.
    So throw out the numbers ... which one is just simply better?
    I don't think I can put Bosh over Boozer ... Boozer beats him in both rebounding and passing, and I think edges him in defense as well. Bosh may be a bit more capable offensively, but they have such different offensive games, it's hard to compare them head to head. If Boozer was 2 inches taller but they both had the exact same game, would anyone think that Bosh was better? I'm not sure.

    Over the past four season, Boozer has played full seasons three out of the four. In those three years, he's been top 3 in Efficiency and top 5 in PER and Win Shares, for Power Forwards, each time.
    This past season ... for Power Forwards ...
    FG% - Boozer #3 ... Bosh #10
    PPG - Boozer #5 ... Bosh #2
    RPG - Boozer #4 ... Bosh #6
    APG - Boozer #5 ... Bosh #10
    SPG - Boozer #4 ... Bosh #29
    TS% - Boozer #4 ... Bosh #7
    Eff - Boozer #3 ... Bosh #1
    PER - Boozer #5 ... Bosh #1
    Reb. Rate - Boozer #3 ... Bosh #6
    Win Shares - Boozer #4 ... Bosh #3

    No other PF in the league was top 5 in anywhere near that many different areas.
    It's true that Boozer isn't really a dominant force in any one area of the game (I'd say rebounding if anything), but he's got to be the most all around PF in the league right now by far.
    And it's also probably true that Boozer has benefited from being in Utah and running that system and having Williams and coach Sloan. But that's the way it is.

    Boozer and Bosh have gone head to head 11 times.
    Boozer has better numbers ...
    Pts - 19.8 vs 17.5
    Reb - 11.5 vs 9.1
    Ast - 2.2 vs 1.1
    Stl - 1.2 vs 0.5
    FG% - 49.2% vs 46.5%
    Winning all those categories.

    In fact, Boozer for his career has pretty decent numbers against all the top PF's.
    He beats Bosh, Lee, and even Gasol in most categories.
    He has about even numbers against Stoudamire and even Duncan.
    Garnett has gotten the better of him a few times ... but predominately early in Boozer's career ... with Boozer winning the past 5 of 6 matchups between the two of them.
    The guy that Boozer seems to struggle the most against may be Nowitzki ... and that's just in Points ... Boozer is about even in the other categories. But we all know that nobody really stops Nowitzki from scoring.

    I'm just failing to see a reason ... especially if I were in the Bulls Front Office ... to believe that Boozer isn't every bit as capable as most of these other guys. And Bosh in particular.

    Could this whole thing fall apart? Sure.
    Could Boozer get injured again? Sure.

    But who doesn't fit those questions?

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    I hear what you guys are saying, but let's not put the cart before the horse and see how this all plays out when the season is actually in swing! We can debate all day about hypotheticals and stats! Many times a new situation is all a player needs to become the player they are meant to be! We have a much better team going into the year then we did last year now we need to get past the 1st round and be one of the best, if not the best Team in the East which will be hard with Miami, Boston, and Orlando, throw in Atlanta and a revamped team to our North the Bucks and the East is going to be more competitive then it has been in the past! We might of needed these "upgrades" to keep pace in the East instead of looking at us as top of the hill in the East! :-)

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    I think Boozer will be better on the Bulls in the East in a big market with young All-Stars in Rose and Noah & 2 teamates of his in KK & Brewer! I'm ready for the season to start already! LOL

  • In reply to Snypershawn:

    Doug, my take on the Boozer signing is its good, not great. But I too have been perplexed by Bulls fans proclaiming Boozer a dominant

  • It's not like the Bulls can change it. They got Boozer, instead of Bosh.

    Again, we need to look FORWARD, not BACKWARD.

  • Just to add to that.

    The one thing the Bulls' management did this summer was UPGRADE the PF position.

    That's a good thing, because otherwise the Bulls couldn't match-up with the big boys.

    They still can't, but at least they are closer now.

  • I think Doug's saying: even though the risk is worth it based on the Bulls' needs and Boozer's abilities, don't expect him to be a savior. I don't think knowledgeable observers are expecting that, anyway, but fans often mistake wishful thinking for reasonable expectations.

    Personally, I just hope Boozer's healthy come playoff time. I never thought he was a max player so I'm glad the Bulls got him for a little under the max. If in the post season he can give us 17 to 20 ppg within the offense while pulling down around 10 boards a game, I'll be happy.

    If people like the signing right now despite Boozer's injury history, they shouldn't start hating him if he gets injured here. Knowing how he bolted from Cleveland and openly talked about other teams he wanted to play for while in Utah, we shouldn't be shocked and outraged if in a couple of years he does the same thing here.

  • 1. I had exactly the same feelings you wrote in the article and I think it is more to do with LeBron than Boozer. Blame me on that, but the way it was put out in the media....I thought we had a legit chance of getting LeBron and when we didn't, it kind of sucked the air out of everything. For example, even if we had the same team and had Bosh instead of Boozer with Boozer in Miami with Wade, LBJ; I think we would still have the same feeling.
    2. The truth is always somewhere in the middle of all the rumors/news reports. So, I hope Boozer has learned to play through injuries and now he knows this is his final big contract...he might put out a better effort.
    3. We saw how he struggle against the Lakers but again for 50% being his height/game as the issue, there might be other things going on. Utah's front line itself isn't that great and plus the Sloan's scheme might have run it's course against Phil Jackson and he probably had no chance.
    3. We all know the love for backups and that's what I think Utah is doing(fans/FO) with Millsap. We will know how it works out soon with him facing starters full time.
    4. He might not be a warrior but even if he is out of games once in a while..we might be ok with Taj backing him up. I think Noah/Taj are the big keys for Boozer. If Noah/Taj remain healthy they will do the dirty work and help Boozer stay healthy.

  • I disagree. I don't think it's a 50/50 proposition. I think it's way more likely that it succeeds rather than fails, just given the track record of the player. In fact, you can probably say, with a high degree of certainty, that the only way that this signing fails is if Boozer has severe health issues and/or has a very unlikely, big time decline.

    Also, I don't see where the "unabashed optimism" is coming from. I think Bulls fans as a whole (real ones, anyway) are a rather pessimistic group. I haven't talked to anyone, via the internet or otherwise, that thinks the Boozer signing was a huge coup for the organization. Most people just think it was the logical move to make once everything else fell into place.

    Btw, I didn't mean to come off like I was really bothered by anything you wrote, or thought you were really off base, I just wasn't sure of the point. I know that you like to look at moves like this from different angles, but this move was more of a no-brainer than others. They do need to field a team, and they got a very good player, on a reasonable deal, to do that. They pretty much did the best they could.

  • Realistically with LBJ being the king of regular season games, do we even have a chance of getting a 1st seed or home court adv during the playoffs with any player in the NBA? As long as Boozer is healthy for the playoffs and misses/sits out around 10-12 regular season games...that should be an acceptable fact and might even help him.

  • You can't be serious ...

    Ask some Utah players what they think of Boozer ... he was claimed by most of them to be the best teammate in the locker room.

    There are bitter Utah fans (and likely Cavs fans as well) that will never like him, but that's the way it always works.

    I'm not aware of any teammate that has ever suggested something negative about Boozer.

    When healthy, he came to work ready to go and give it everything he had.

  • I think you are way off on this one ...

    1. To suggest that we waited to sign Boozer until Bosh signed means that we wanted Bosh more ... I think is flawed. It had to be apparent to everyone that Wade, Lebron, and Bosh were tied together ... in one way or another. You can't go pick up Wade and/or Lebron without thinking that Bosh is likely involved in the package.
    If the Bulls were 100% certain that Wade was going to sign with them ... irregardless of who their PF was going to be, I'm more convinced now that they would have signed Boozer outright.
    And I believe that a Wade/Boozer signing would have been our #1 possible summer ... in hindsight.

    You suggest that Jazz fans weren't too disappointed to lose Boozer. I think you're mistaken. The problem is, you're looking at their comments THIS summer. Boozer was leaving, there wasn't a question. Jazz fans knew this almost a year and a half ago. Go back to that point and see what they were saying. Sure, they weren't happy with some of the things he did, but they were pretty crazed by the thought that Boozer was leaving, they might have no one to pair with Deron, and eventually Deron was probably going to leave, because of it, as well. Then Millsap came along and started doing pretty well and the Jazz fans started convincing themselves that they would be okay and that Millsap could easily replace Boozer last year. But then Boozer came back ... surprise ... and many of them didn't know what to do. Since Boozer would "obviously" be coming off the bench now to back up Millsap. *Snicker* Some of them were even surprised that Boozer was the starter. Yes, they were ignorant. But you can't be surprised that they weren't heartbroken that Boozer left. They knew the moment the Jazz signed Millsap to his big extension that Boozer was leaving.

  • Obviously, I disagree and believe I have a very realistic perspective. I think the lack of realism and balance comes from fans who are assuming Bulls have become an instant contender and will jump from 41 wins to 54-55.

    Realistically, Bulls are now one of the 4-6 best team in the East along with Atlanta and Milwaukee and that will be a very competitive contest for that 4th seed. The 1-3 best teams in the East are Miami, Orlando and Boston, especially come playoff time.

  • BTW, is there a reason why Boozer is not on the USA team with their supposed lack of size. Is it to do with FA timing?

    Also, Sloan wanted Boozer back and that was not the case with Brewer or Matthews. Also, I think he had knee surgery when he missed those 40 games and that's not taking it easy.

    We can blame him for the Cleveland stuff...but what about Utah and Sloan who are supposedly this morally great guys...They offered him that contract and signed him..They need to take some blame too.

  • agreed.
    i know its a different sport, but Ricky Williams is a perfect example. missed about 3 season but not really due to injury (one chest injury but nothing major) but moreso retirement and suspension. which is why at 33 he is still running hard and just gained 1000 yards last year as a 32-yr-old, which is unheard of. i'll definitely take healthy years over injuries.

  • I read that Dampier cannot be traded with another player until Sep 13. I am sure MJ will explore all their trading options by dumping another salary with him or get a need.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    But any team Dampier is traded to will surely waive him to clear his $13 million salary. Then Dampier becomes an unrestricted free agent doesn't he? I don't see how Charlotte has any leverage in this. Dampier can sign with any team he chooses, he will simply have to wait until he is waived - which is a certainty.

    Will Miami's lure of a ring, plus Pat Riley's influence work their charm again? Their roster has filled out beyond most expectations.

  • All of the PF options came with warts. Bosh can't even get his team to the playoffs. Amare is a headcase who might not be able to walk in three years. Neither of those guys is a difference maker in the way LBJ and Wade are.

    Boozer is coming on board as a clear number two. This is Rose's team now and Boozer's job is to make it easier for Rose, not vice versa. As far as who they got, I don't see a big difference between Bosh and Boozer beyond age. I wouldn't be shocked if Boozer puts up better numbers this year either.

  • If that's the worst we get, I'll thank the heavens.

    I think Bosh, just this summer, has shown his personality and attitude to be questionable ... and more damaging than anything Boozer has ever done.

  • Rose ... Player of the Game against Greece.

    13 pts on 6 of 7 shooting.
    Looks like he really stepped up and led the team to a dominant win.

  • I think you are selling Skiles short. He's one of the better coaches in the league. He will make Milwaukee quite competitive, IMO.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Skiles is basically a clone of Doug Collins with more emphasis on defense. We will see how much Jennings will handle him after a year. About their pieces, we saw enough of Gooden(sucks) and Salmons(played well for Mil) but is an average player overall and would be good as a 5/6th best player on a team. They are the typical team who will pad up their record by beating up unprepared/young/tired teams.

  • Mitchell,

    If we are going to assign labels, which for some reason you have chosen to do, I would label your scenario of a leap from 41 to 54 wins and the from 8th seed to the 3rd seed as idealistic, not realistic.

    By its definition realistic is a sensible, sober or moderate interpretation.

    To be clear, I see a marked difference in talent between Miami/Orlando/Boston and Chicago/Atlanta/Milwaukee. And I feel the 3 teams in each of those two groups are fairly close talent-wise (possible caveat with Miami though). That I don

  • 55 wins = idealistic, optimistic
    50 wins = realistic, likely
    46 wins = pessimistic

  • "I'm not going to say that Boozer was the best PF out there, but (theoretically, at least) he's a better fit for the Bulls than Bosh, Amare, or Lee." If you're saying Boozer is a better fit than any other PF out there; you're saying he's the best out there! I agree that he's the better fit for the Bulls and I'll go that extra mile and say that makes him the best out there for the Bulls.

  • I think the Jazz owner was frustrated with Boozer. But that said, Boozer has some handicaps(height, injury prone) but is he one of those players who gets injured by the way he plays like a Rose going in the paint?

  • Jazz fan here. A few things:

    Millsap never had a gun charge as far as I know. Jefferson did get a DUI. I've met him. He's an incredibly kind person and he is a major upgrade over Boozer.

    Been a drink slinger in SLC for a decade and I know all about Boozer. Bad guy. Really. Delonte West bad.

  • My take as a Jazz fan and longtime downtown SLC resident:

    You guys got way better this off season. I will say that you'll love Korver and Brewer. Big time fan favs and great character guys. Brewer has had some unbelievably athletic plays and I hope he fully recovers from his injury. There is a spot in the league for him. Jazz fans will always love him.

    I think you'll actually get much more out of Boozer than Utah did for one simple reason: Noah can clean up Boozer's defensive, er, slop. Nobody here that could do that. You might see the same offensive production, but his +/- wont be as bad as it was here.
    To be clear, almost everybody here has wanted Boozer's head for two years. After all of the injuries, all of the talk about trades in the offseasons, all of the internal locker room drama took its toll and we all knew he was gone. No way the Jazz pay him $80 million.

    He hated SLC, wanted out to a big market and he got it, so what I'm saying below shouldn't really scare you too bad.
    A few anecdotes:

    1) After he came back from that (one of many) weird injury to his knee in 2008, the Jazz had been on a 12 game tear and had the #2 seed in sight. Boozer came back and they lost 8 of 12 and slipped into 8th. OUCH.

    2) Last game of the '09-10 season. Jazz have the 3 seed locked up if they can beat Phoenix at home on the last game of the friggin season. Boozer sits out with an 'oblique strain'. No Kirilenko or Boozer. Jazz lose, slide three seeds and lose home court in the first round. They did beat the Thuggetz but OUCH again.

    Aside form all of this, he was involved in Delonteian activities that slaughtered team chemistry. Just trust me on that one.

    So, good luck. I will actually be watching as much Bulls basketball as I can here in Utah as I think they'll be really fun to watch. Just don't think you're getting a low-post scorer. He's a really big slasher from the free-throw line in with a deadly left hand around the rim and a great mid-range game, horrible defensive instincts and a great understanding of the offensive game. Enjoy.

  • In reply to neviplace:

    "Delonteian activities" What did he do? Did he bone a teammate's moms? Nosy minds want to know!

  • In reply to magestew:

    Maybe he's referring to Kirilenko's wife ... LOL

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Bingo. You win a prize. Not sure what yet.

  • In reply to neviplace:

    Hehe ... come on now.
    People make stuff up all the time.

    Just because Masha is hot and they have agreed to let each other sleep around, doesn't mean anything.

    At least we know where the Delonte rumor comes from.

  • In reply to neviplace:

    Are you serious unitedelectric? How do you document this?

  • In reply to neviplace:

    We have watched enough Jazz games(in playoffs) to see how Boozer plays and we will take him. None of your anecdotes(2 of them) make any sense for not signing him. His injury might be serious for him to play or his pain-tolerance might be less. Plus, going on a tear is so dependent on other factors(chemistry, opposition strength, somebody getting hot etc..).
    Just throwing out accusations/rumors on a personal level without proof doesn't enhance your credibility. And his private life is something he handles himself and does whatever he want as long as it is legal.

    It looks more like Boozer wanted to make more money(big payday, big market and more exposure etc..)..That's why Jazz fans are a little mad at him and trying to say we didn't need him. No problem, we will take him and if his offensive game is good...that's exactly what we need and we can compensate a little bit for his defense with Noah/Taj/Deng and Thibs's schemes.

  • In reply to neviplace:

    Concerning your point #2 ... I just don't get it ...

    I swear, watching that game, there was no way you were winning that game. Boozer or not.
    Both teams played the night before ... Phoenix killed the Nuggets ... Jazz beat the Warriors.
    The Jazz played awful ... every single one of them.
    Boozer played the night before, but couldn't go more than 12 minutes for just 5 points.
    In the playoffs you guys got Denver which was a pretty decent matchup ... I know you wanted home court ... but come on, you won the series. You made second round.
    What did you want?
    Besides, what's the difference in whether you get beat by the Lakers in the 2nd or 3rd round?
    One freaking game and that was all the Jazz fans could talk about.
    Did you want him to try and win one game for you, or be ready for a tough first round series?
    I swear, if he'd pulled a muscle or something in that Phoenix game and been out for a couple games in the first round ... even if you'd been playing Portland ... you guys would have thrown a freaking fit. Whining about how injured he always is.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Oh, and the Suns had won 13 out of 15 coming into that game. Including one against the Jazz. You weren't beating them that night.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Dude. I'm saying that you will probably love him. He got his big time market and his final contract. But come one man, he missed 2.5 years out of 6. We are not whining. Yes we got spoiled by S2M, but this cat has been fragile.

  • In reply to neviplace:

    I understand that he missed a couple seasons ... but injuries happen.

    But that one game was a bit of an overreaction by the Jazz fans in my opinion.

  • In reply to neviplace:

    So it took someone from Utah to confirm what I've been saying here - Boozer is not a low-post scorer. He gets his points from the pick and roll and cutting to the basket in Sloan's flex offense which has a lot of ball movement and players moving without the ball. Most of Boozer's buckets are assisted. He rarely isolates on the low block which is the definition of a low-post scorer. All you had to do was watch a couple Utah games last season and its obvious. I watched because I knew Boozer was a high probability for the Bulls in free agency.

    I think the term 'low-post scorer' has been repeated in the media so often that fans just assume its true without watching games and making their own evaluation.

    I'm not ripping Boozer, its just the truth about his game. Boozer was a good signing for the Bulls and a nice upgrade at PF. And we've still got Gibson coming off the bench and to start those games Boozer misses.

  • Damn I swore I'd never come back to this website but Damn, Doug Thonus You gained my respect with this article.

  • In reply to purch:

    Wow ... I better go re-read it ...
    Article must be worse than I thought.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Have fun.

  • In reply to Silverwulf:

    Does any one here remember one of those first games after the trade deadline, last year, the game against Philly? We absolutely destroyed them, kicked the snot out of 'em, but we didn't do it in the fashion that had become typical of most of are comfortable defeats. We didn't do it by just making the majority of our jumpers that is. We did it by playing great team ball: rotating & swarming on defense, swinging the ball around to the weak side & making the extra pass on offense. We had just aquired Warrick & Murray at that point, and the team performance had everyone clamoring to resign them, despite the knowledge that they were just cap room essentially. I was looking forward to playing the rest of the year with that type of team play. But it didn't happen. I think injuries were a major factor. Now Murray & Warrick are gone, and they've been replaced by several guys who do what they did, & they do it much better.

    My point is that I think we can expect that type of team play on a regular basis now. You know with Tibs that defense will play like a team, like they were all connected on a string it will seem. We've got a great on ball defender in Brewer now, and a great post defender in Noah still....the D will be nasty. On offense, it will be scary how well we move the ball. Boozer & Noah are both 2 of the best big men passers out there. You got Rose as your PG, and him leading the break.... It will be a beatiful team game we are going to play, and having a potential great minded coach in Thibadeau will unleash the true potential of this young talented team.

    I think most fans have been programmed to think of this team as mediocre. The last 12 years would have done that to the most optimistic of fans. At best we wre a high 40 win team who couldn't win 2 games in the 2nd round of the playoffs. At worst we were falling back in to the lottery. Those times have changed. We are now among the league's elite, & it is just a little hard to fathom. Elite team beat all the teams they are supposed to. They handle their home court, and play at least 50/50 on the road. They win close to 50% of their games against other elite teams. We are now part of that group. For the first time in Derrick Rose's career, a team has been constructed around him. For the first time in his career, he has a coach with experience & creative idea's that work. Much like that game against Philly last year promised us, we are going to kick the snot out of a lot of teams this year, and hang with a lot of teams that have title hopes.

    55 is reasonable, even factoring a couple games missed by Boozer. 50 is a lock, unless Rose & Noah both go down for a long stretch.
    We are a long way from the mediocrity of the last 12 years gentlemen, get ready to win!

  • Oh man! Downer Dougie over here. It feels like you just crapped in my breakfast cereal my man. Dang, I was excited but then....

    Well, on the birght side, I think I am still more optimistic than you. I think we are over a 50/50 to make the conf finals, 51% at least! Tell me, who is going to beat us in th 2nd round?

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Miami, Orlando or Boston - take your pick.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I think Boston is being over-rated based on last year. They are a 50/50 team who if firing on all cylinders will do well in the playoffs or might flame out like a San Antonio did this year. I think they are more like San Antonio of 2009-10 or worse..old and relying on trickery,once in a while rush of energy..
    I would say Atlanta might be better than Boston. Also, the Bulls can beat Orlando except for matching with Howard...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Bulls cancel out the Howard-Noah matchup by winning the, check that, dominating the Rose-Nelson/Duhon matchup.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:


    Used to be since Miami & Orlando play in the Southwest together, only 1 of them could get a top 3 seed. Also, they did not re-seed. So under the old rules Chicago, assuming they got a 2,3,6, or 7 seed & won their first round matchup, could not face either until the Conference Finals.

    Did this change? I know the better record has always gotten home court regardless of seeding.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    The team that has the best record in each of the three divisions in each conference is declared division champion. The three champions, and the one other team in the conference with the best record are seeded one through four by their records. This guarantees that the division champions will be no lower than fourth seed, and also ensures that a conference's two best teams (by record) are ranked as the top two. However, because the NBA does not re-seed its teams and because home court advantage goes to the team with the better record, not the better seeding, division winners are guaranteed no better than a five seed, as their 4th seeding does not guarantee home court advantage in the first round, and after the first round the 4 vs 5 winner will play the same teams as the loser would have played had they won the first round. This will continue throughout the remainder of the playoffs and to the finals until the 4 vs 5 winner loses a playoff round or wins the championship. Of the remaining eleven conference teams, the four with the best records are seeded fifth through eighth based on their records.
    So yes Miami and Orlando can both be seeded high than the Bulls even if the Bulls win their Division. The changes were made in the 2006 season

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Chicago Bulls forward Carlos Boozer sustained a fracture of his right hand (5th metacarpal) on October 2, 2010. He was evaluated by team physician Dr. Brian Cole and hand specialist Dr. Marc Cohen of Midwest Orthopaedics at Rush. The fracture will require surgery and Carlos will likely be out 8 weeks.

  • In reply to ChiRy:


  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Only Orlando & Miami can challenge us in the East, and we are 50/50 with Orlando.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Yep keep counting Boston out. Just like last season when they got to the Finals

  • In reply to Edward:

    I don't think the Booze was "the guy", but I am thankful that he committed to us early, negotiated the contract he did and is now a vocal leader in the offseason. Plus's include not having to give up Taj and a pick in a S&T for Bosh, and also not having to pay $100 million (Amare) and using that money for Korver/Brewer/CJ... I think we have a good, well-balanced team now, and Boozer will play great next to Rose!

  • In reply to Edward:

    The last few years ago the team most need is low post threat, a player who can be a threat inside the paint to score for a easy baskets and a player can force a double team etc, etc, etc.

    Now fast forward to this summer in the off-season, after both Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade decide to sign with the Miami Heat.

    Just right away the Chicago Bulls go ahead and sign Carlos Boozer, which did not take long. I believe it was the same day that both Bosh and Wade decide to go to Miami, then the Chicago Bulls go straight to Carlos Boozer and agree to sign with him. Seem to me they are waiting for Chris Bosh to make a decision, I do think they do try to get two big free agents the combination of either Wade and Bosh, Bron and Bosh, or even Bron and Wade at that time.

    Keep in mind that was the day before Lebron big decision on national television, there are not seem to interest in Amare even though they were planning to meet with him the next week which was on Tuesday I believe. But he did agree to go to the Knicks early that week, but he Bulls does not seem interest in him anyways as I pointed out already.

    Anyways, fast forward now, it seem to me that most likely the Bulls want a scoring PF along with an elite player. As I pointed out earlier that years ago the Chicago Bulls one of their biggest need is a low post threat. This free agent class only two actually three players give low post threats.

    Carlos Boozer
    Amare Stoudamire
    Craig Smith

    Chris Bosh while he is a great PF but his game is not really a low post scorer, more of a face up type player. Nothing wrong with that even though it be nice for him to add a low post to his game, majority of the Bulls fan prefer and want Chris Bosh over Amare and Carlos Boozer. For one he is younger and two he is injury free compare those two.

    While the Bulls could add at least a scoring PF, they actually did and added Carlos Boozer which he is more of a post up player than Chris Bosh. A need that is address finally over the years the team are looking for, first time find a low post threat since Elton Brand well actually you can say since Eddy Curry but whatever.

    Now when first report that Carlos Boozer sign with Chicago, I do not like it for one the first reported was five years and $80 million which he is not worth much. Now lets rewind for a little bit, I remember some people(Bulls fans and outsiders.)including myself thought Carlos Boozers wants to paid the max. Which he isn't worth the max, now fast forward again reports about 5 yrs and $80 which he isn't worth that much.

    For one he isn't worth the max, not a max level type player sure he put up good numbers but does not mean he is worth the max. With his history of his health which I will discuss about that little more detail in a second, Carlos Boozer who is an all star but not a all star worth the max. I don't know how to explain this but he is just aren't worth the max.

    Now with the reports say it is 5 yrs and $75 million, that is a big relief and that was a good signing after all. Because that is what? Below the max barely? That isn't really to bad regardless and he is worth that much, not bad for a player who put up 20/10.

    Now what we should be beware and what is the biggest concern, is obvious Carlos Boozer's health. He was known as injury prone, that will be the biggest concern the next five years and which is one of the reason we should keep Taj Gibson too. We already have three players on the current roster who are injury prones, Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, and Omer Asik.

    That will be a big concern for those three as long they are under contract and play for the Chicago Bulls, maybe the Bulls should trade their medical staff for the Suns medical staff huh? LoL because we are going to need it.

    While I think that is the only thing concern about Carlos Boozer is his health nothing else, yes he is not the type of player that can make an impact and a big difference maker. Again, one of the reason I mention above is that he is not worth the max, but when he stay healthy and as Doug pointed out he address the Bulls need. He gives low post presence offensively and he is a hell of a rebounder, he will be a good compliment with Joakim Noah.

    While I do heard which the first time I heard this summer, there are people have question about Carlos Boozer motivation. I do not think that is the case, but I could be wrong but I do watch some of the Jazz games and he seem very motivate, only problem him is that he is a horrible defender. Some players are good at something and some who are not good in certain areas. Which I think is another reason why the Jazz fans do not mind see Boozer gone because of his defense. While it is probably more of his health than his defensive end but it might be part of the reason though.

    That is my take on all this, I guess I already covered all of the areas with my view, opinions, and whatever is left lol.

  • In reply to Edward:

    No way Boston beats us in the playoffs this year. We jusr passed them up. Remember after Miami won that championship? We were an up and coming team, they were an old team, a year older. What happened? We swept them of course. No way Boston does it again. They are hanging on 1 year too long, only because they owe their fans that after a Finals run.
    Plus, now we have their mastermind. Now we have built a team around Rose, for the 1st time. Now our young players are a year better.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    We can handle Orlando, that would be a 50/50 series. But we probably wouldn't meet them til the Conf Finals

    Miami is who everyone wants to see, but just like Orlando, not likely til final 4 teams

  • I highly disagree. You can't determine the character of players just based off a D.W.I. Jefferson no matter how many losing seasons the T-Wolves had never complained about the situation or demanded a trade. Sticking with a team that constantly loses 50 games per season and never complaining shows a lot about your character. Now compare that to a teamate like Kevin Love who was constantly complaining about the team and it speaks values about who Jefferson is as a person. He's always been humble and it's always been about the team first. Al Jefferson only wants to go out on the court and give 110% percent no matter if his team has 0 chance of making the playoffs or if they're a lock.

    You can't say we don't have a legitimate reason to question Boozer's character. Boozer throughout the whole 08-09 season was talking about opting out of his contract and leaving Utah. Everyone turned against him and when he finally came back from injury it never seemed like the team was on the same page that year. And then there's multiple incidents where he made it clear he didn't even want to be in Utah.
    And then there's that incident that turned all Utah fans against him with the "injury" that he was cleared to play for but decided to sit out. That cost us everything.

    And Millsap's character should never be question. He's a player who always shows up early for practice always give 1000% heart on the court and always produces. Out of any person on our team he's had the right to complain over the past three years but he never did that. He showed us all he could averaged 18-8 better then most big men when Boozer was out the lineup as a starter. But then when Boozer came back he didn't complain he just went and played his role and hustled every game.

  • Also, Bulls will mosr likely not have homecourt advantage in the 2nd round, making a victory less likely.

    If Bulls can earn homecourt advantage in the 1st round and win, that is a pretty successful season.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Success for the new Bulls era starts a a Conf Finals appearence.

  • Nah I'll have plenty of times since I'll probally check up On Korver and Brewer many times during the season lol

  • In reply to purch:

    Any news on how Brewer's injury is recovering?

  • Unitedelectric,
    So it took someone from Utah to confirm what I've been saying here - Boozer is not a low-post scorer. He gets his points from the pick and roll and cutting to the basket in Sloan's flex offense which has a lot of ball movement and players moving without the ball. Most of Boozer's buckets are assisted. He rarely isolates on the low block which is the definition of a low-post scorer. All you had to do was watch a couple Utah games last season and its obvious. I watched because I knew Boozer was a high probability for the Bulls in free agency.

    I think the term 'low-post scorer' has been repeated in the media so often that fans just assume its true without watching games and making their own evaluation.

    I'm not ripping Boozer, its just the truth about his game. Boozer was a good signing for the Bulls and a nice upgrade at PF. And we've still got Gibson coming off the bench and to start those games Boozer misses.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Yup I agree. He has a great arsenal, but smacking guys around underneath the basket is not part of it. Watched him play a couple of hundred times. The Bulls will be good though. I think he fits in nicely and you'll probably see Rose put up some nice assist numbers finally.

  • Did the NBA change the rules to reseed the teams after every round? Because if I'm not mistaken, seeds 1-3 have to be claimed by division winners. It could be that I'm in the dark on a rule change from the last couple of years, but that's how it used to be. In that case, either Orlando or Miami would get the 4 seed, and we would avoid both until the Conf Finals, so long that we didn't get the 5 or 8 seed.

    Am I wrong Doug?

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