Cardinals calling about Starlin Castro

Cardinals calling about Starlin Castro

There are whispers the St. Louis Cardinals are calling the Cubs regarding Starlin Castro.

This is a pretty big way to kick off the offseason rumor mill. You got to hand it to John Mozeliak and company. They don’t sit around and lick their wounds. Not even 24 hours after dropping the World Series in 6 games to Boston, they are apparently already working the phones.

Normally, I would give this one some pause. However, there have been some rumbles for a while that the Cubs could move Castro. Then you have the Cards, who have been notably seeking an upgrade at the position.

Then there was the rumor reiterated just the other day about how close Jake Peavy and Alexi Ramirez were to being swapped for a package headlined by names like Michael Wacha and Carlos Martinez.

What I’ve heard is the Cubs would want a package to center around Martinez, Shelby Miller or Tyrell Jenkins and possibly a shortstop. Supposedly the Cards didn’t exactly hang up the phone, I'm told.

When I tweeted out the info you could just feel the tension in Cubdom. There is a natural anxiety when dealing with the rival Cardinals. They usually get these things right it seems. Then you have the Lou Brock thing. Yeah, I get that feeling.

You just know Castro becomes a perennial All-Star there. Not to mention the boon he would receive being under Yadi Molina and Carlos Beltran’s wings. However, the Cubs front office won't and can’t concern themselves with that.

At the end of the day, the Cubs need arms. They need pitching prospects. There aren’t many organizations out there that aren’t envious of the hitting talent within the system. Yet, you can say just the opposite about the lack of impact arms. There just isn’t much there according to rival scouts. Castro is one of the chips the Cubs could deal to remedy that.

With Javy Baez maybe not too far off, this deal could make sense for both clubs. Martinez is an impressive young arm.

At least this takes our minds off the painstaking managerial search.

@TomLoxas

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Tags: Starlin Castro

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  • There is no way in hell that package for Alexei/Peavy was ever discussed. 3 top 50 prospects (at midseason) for Ramirez and Peavy? Peavy brought back a borderline top 100 prospect and 3 fringy (at best) prospects and Ramirez would bring back much less than that.

  • Not sure it would have included both but hey those names came up and Martinez was surely a part of it.

  • Would this be a sell low move for Chicago? I've never heard of Jenkins, and if StL had a shortstop prospect worth giving up Castro for, why wouldn't they just keep that kid? I'm not against trading him, just wondering how good a potential deal would be. All I've ever heard is how it would take an overwhelming deal to trade for Castro.

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    My guess it would be Kozma as a throw in stop gap. Jenkins was a top pitching prospect for the Cardinals but just had shoulder surgery. He has huge stuff.

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    In reply to KGallo:

    Ewww...shoulder surgery. Red flag, there.

  • In reply to KGallo:

    Kozma of WS errors/benching fame?

    What do you see as a "fair" trade? I've heard of all these other guys and I know Castro had a down year, and I'm an ignorant homer, but I just don't see such a thing as a pitching prospect. Couple that with nightmares of Lou Brock, an in-division deal, and I see the Cards having to throw in two top pitching prospects.

    Dealing Castro for a pitcher who just had shoulder surgery and a warm body at short....I just can't imagine the Cubs are THAT EAGER to deal Castro.

    Please ease my comfort on this one, Kevin and Tom!

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    Ok. I saw that it's been clarified that it is for two of those pitchers. I'd feel better about that.

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    In reply to cubbie steve:

    " I've never heard of Jenkins..."

    He's a top 100 prospect according to BA

    "...if StL had a shortstop prospect worth giving up Castro for, why wouldn't they just keep that kid?"

    Tom not talking about a SS prospect from StL he means get Kozma or Descalso to plug the hole at SS until Baez is ready.

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    There is a better match out there for the Cardinals than the Cubs I think. They could probably swap Tavarez to Texas straight up for Profar, and given the dearth of power arms in the Ranger's system right now and their surplus of middle infielders, it's a fit for them. It would be a deal that helps both clubs and really doesn't hurt either one. JMHO!

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    I don't see the Rangers trading Profar for anything less then Price or Stanton.

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    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    A Taveraz for Profar deal is one of those trades that makes a ton of sense on paper, but virtually never happens in reality. My guess is that's because of information asymmetries. Both teams know their guy, his work ethic, etc. quite well, but have limited information on the other guy. That makes it a riskier move.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    Mike, you're exactly right. The only guy that makes sense for them to move Profar for, in terms of different scenarios bandied about, is Stanton. He's an elite prospect at SS. As good as Taveras is likely to be, ultimately, he's a coner OF. Stanton is, as well, but has already established himself as near, if no there, franchise player.

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    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    No, a better match would be offensively to get Tulo from the Rockies if the Cubs mgmt would absorb that contract. Problem...the Rockies don't have stud arms other than Butler.

  • Guessing that the Cards don't really have Taveras in my mind as bait to get a SS.

    I'd think arms along the lines of Lynn, Jenkins, Kelley is what they're thinking. Mkt is very soft for even adequate SP.

    Broadly speaking, I think teams are going to really try to bottom-feed on Castro, given his tough yr. I can see there being major disconnects on how teams view his value.

    I still believe trade activity should focus around the guys whose value is still perceived as high around the league-I.e Shark & Welly( if they decide to go LH @ C).

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    The problem with Castro becoming a perennial All Star -- which will absolutely happen -- isn't just the embarrassment, but that it makes them that much tougher to beat year-in, year-out. I'd be much better with him being a perennial All Star for the White Sox, because that only affects us in a potential World Series.

    We have to get a lot here. The return has to close to guarantee impact players on our side that will match what Castro gives the Cardinals.

    Having said that, that the Cardinals were discussing Wacha for Jake Peavy/Alexei Ramirez is proof that they don't *always* get these things right.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    That's it Mike that's the issue. Yet Martinez could haunt them too.

  • Pardon my last post, iPhone .....

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    If we take Jenkins we need to get Wong then too. Jenkins has had shoulder problems. We can't take an injured prospect and Kozma for Castro we'd be getting robbed.

    I'd take Miller over Martinez. Martinez stuff is better but I don't like his delivery. Reminds me to much of Marmol. I think he'll struggle to throw strikes consistently. I think he's relegated to the pen and a reliever and Kozma also isn't enough for Castro.

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    Carlos Martinez delivery is a spitting image of Pedro Martinez. I would take Martinez in a second.

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    I agree. Jenkins & Wong would have to come together. The interesting part in the Shelby Miller vs Carlos Martinez thing is that after watching these playoffs, it seems Miller may be in a doghouse of some kind. Carlos Martinez was pitched almost every game while Miller couldn't sniff the field. I'd prefer Miller myself as well.

  • In reply to Brandon Miller:

    Totally wrong. Cards backed off Sh Miller due to workload concerns. First full year in bigs. Had been used regularly in rotation for almost the whole season. But I doubt I can talk you out of your totally baseless doghouse opinion.

  • I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Tom meant the Cubs would begin discussions with: Martinez + either Miller or Jenkins + possibly a shortstop. In other words, multiple pitchers. That's what they should be asking for anyway. And I'd probably ask for another one as well, someone like Lynn.

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    In reply to hartmtown:

    "...the Cubs would want a package to center around Martinez, Shelby Miller or Tyrell Jenkins and possibly a shortstop."

    I read it as one of the pitchers and a shortstop but I could be wriong

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    It's ambiguous from the way it was written. But if it's merely one of the pitchers, then they're certainly not asking for enough, especially considering a) the Cards have no good shortstops or shorstop prospects and b) they're the Cards.

  • In reply to hartmtown:

    Sorry guys. Cubs want both P. However, I don't know if that happens IMO.

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    In reply to Tom Loxas:

    Thanks for clarifying Tom.

    I'd rather have Miller & Wong than Martinez, Kozma and Jenkins. Shift Barney back to SS until Baez is ready and put Wong at 2B.

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    In reply to Tom Loxas:

    Any sense on whether they walk away if they don't get both, or is this just a first offer to get talks rolling?

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    I think it's the latter.

  • I couldn't say yes fast enough if the Cards were offering Miller and Martinez for Castro

  • In reply to Ike03:

    No kidding. Two arms like that hell yeah.

  • A deal like this seems very improbable . Both teams have a lot more perceived risk by trading with biggest rival.

    Tom, what would you put the current odds at of a Shark deal? I can't get my thoughts away from a Shark to TOR deal..... I know that intrigues Kevin, as well.

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    I think it is very possible but the problem is. It is easier to trade hitting for pitching then it is to trade pitching for pitching.

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    I really think he's gone. Where? no idea.

  • Castro for Martinez and Jay would work

  • I'm okay with the idea of trading Castro but would wait till his value approaches what it was his first two years and certainly would not trade him to the Cards,unless they overpay to get him.Maybe we can send a veteran bad winged pitcher to them for a young upcoming position player and the rights to Yadier's cloned youngest son.

  • In reply to TheRiot2:

    From what I understand from people is they are looking for 3 young Players mostly pitchers and a PTBNL.

  • In reply to KGallo:

    Why a PTBNL?

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    They will be looking for more but will wait a list of a few players to make a better decision.

  • In reply to KGallo:

    Gotcha

  • Kevin, what type of packages could you imagine from NYM or FLA ? Syndergaard /Wheeler based? FLA- Turner/Eovaldi with maybe Morrison thrown in?

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    I think Syndergaard would have to be included I think Wheeler Out of the question.

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    I like Heaney and Nicolino from the Marlins maybe more.

  • Would Hechevarria interest you guys as a stopgap at SS til Javy's ready? Also, would throwing someone like Grimm in make a 2 for 3 with 2 SP prospects & Hech make some sense for FLA ?

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    I think they are looking to move Hech to 2B.

  • I'm not buying that for a minute. Mozeliak and company are really smart. Sure, they'll want better offense from shortstop, but also reliable defense and smarts at that crucial position.
    Let's have some fun and eavesdrop in the Cardinals' war room:
    "Castro is challenged to make even the routine plays."
    "His feet are clunky."
    "He still does the glove-to-hand tap before throwing."
    "Let's be totally honest. He's a dumb player, at the position where you most want a smart player."
    "Good shortstops are plentiful right now. Why in the heck would we pay a whole bunch for one of the shakiest?"
    "Besides the defensive problems, this has always been a hacky hitter. But he regressed in two other very important areas. He didn't pull pullable pitches and hit more outs to right. And, surprisingly, he started to miss and swing late on good, high fastballs."
    "So, we'd take on his long-term contract and give up one of our young stud arms for ALL THAT?"
    "Let's pretend we drank too much, and never even talked about Castro. Next guy?"

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