Audibles From the Long Snapper: No Toub, Trestman Speaks, Giants Leave Albany

Audibles From the Long Snapper: No Toub, Trestman Speaks, Giants Leave Albany

Why Dave Toub Would Worry Me as Head Coach

John Harbaugh is the poster child for special teams coordinators being hired as head coach. His success has been undeniable. 54-26. 6-4 in the postseason, where his club plays every year. Cameron Worrell told me Dave Toub welcomed the news of Harbaugh's hiring as a boon for special teams coordinators everywhere. I believe it. But I think the Bears would be making an error in promoting Dave Toub.

Why? Cam Cameron.

What happens if Toub chooses the wrong offensive coordinator? What happens if Toub - a man with no experience on the offensive side of ball - takes the wrong shot and realizes in a year or so that the system is not working? Harbaugh was able to move from Cameron to Jim Caldwell - a respected play caller and former Colts head coach. But could the Bears afford to make such an in-season maneuver when they've gone through a coordinator a year for the last decade?

Phil Emery has spent a few hours with just about every offensive coordinator in the league for one reason: he wants a man of vision on that side of the ball and he wants that man to keep Rod Marinelli and his defensive staff in place. That's how you win in the league these days unless you have Belichick. Or Coughlin. Look at the success of coaches like McCarthy and Payton for the new model. Offensive visionaries willing to hand over the defensive end to a competent "other" like Dom Capers or Steve Spagnuolo.

I'd offer Toub a substantial raise to stay the special team coach in Chicago. I would not promote him to head coach.

I Don't Know Who Marc Trestman's Talking About...

But here he is, breaking down the Canadian game. (My instincts tell me this game won't be a captivating media presence in Chicago.)

Giants Move Training Camp to the Meadowlands

Some franchises want to win. Some franchises don't accept losing. The New York Giants are the latter. This week they announced they will not spend their summer in Albany - where they've been since 1996 - and will instead hold camp at the Timex Center practice facility in the parking lot of MetLife Stadium.

Is it a big deal? Not for many but it is for me. These kinds of moves are what separate the Giants from a majority of teams around the league. They failed to make the postseason in the year after a Super Bowl title and instead of resting on the laurels of their two shiny rings GM Jerry Reese and head coach Tom Coughlin decided to being making structural, organizational changes. Losing is not acceptable to Big Blue and it's damn admirable.


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  • uhh yea I got nothing. Im still sold on Mike McCoy!

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Fresno,Ca Bear Fan:

    My call right out of the gates was McCoy as HC and keep Marinelli as Defensive Coordinator. I think the Bears are loading up on Offensive ideas interviewing every coordinator they can.

  • Dude, Cam Worrell can suck a huge cock:

    New tweet came out Cam you fucking douche. Here it is:

    Dear Redskins.....yeah....sorry for my first tweet about playing with a knee injury since now I could possibly ruin TWO seasons for my self and team and you the fan base and could affect my career in general moving forward. I know you mortgaged your future on me so there's that too. I also looked at the tape again and am embarassed of how badly I played and that I was in fact the fucking reason we lost without a shadow of a doubt. Thank god a washup up ex bear special teamer is on my side though. It makes me feel alot better. Signed RG3.

  • In reply to Waffle:


  • In reply to Waffle:

    but he's tough!

    he's a football player!

    he pretended he wasn't hurt because he didn't want to let the team down!

    he stayed in to make sure the skins won and kept their super bowl dreams alive!

    and that's what it's all about, right? winning the game? good thing the offense didn't skip a beat after he got hurt. otherwise Cam would look kind of foolish now.

  • In reply to evantonio:

    According to MJD, it is.

    Of course, once MJD himself got hurt and hurt his team badly because of a long holdout and showing up to camp not in football shape, then it wasn't being a pussy and letting your teammates down - it was just biz-ness.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    AND, MJD sat out the last 2 games of 2010 with a knee injury while the Jags were fighting to make the playoffs which made his subsequent tweet on Cutler so ridiculous.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    but MJD's knee injury was serious. in his professional medical opinion, Jay's was not.

  • In reply to evantonio:

    Oh, well THAT makes it OK.

  • you admire the Giants because they moved their practice facility? how does that send a message that they're not accepting losing?

    "hey guys. you missed the playoffs last year. so instead of making you spend your summer in albany where the Crossroads Mall is your biggest distraction, we're going to make you practice 30 minutes from the biggest city in the world. that should keep your minds on the mission!"

    yeah. that should really put those guys on notice.

  • In reply to evantonio:

    I like the blog, but sometimes Jeff seriously draws the opposite conclusion from a set of facts that most people would.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    i guess i'd just like to hear the logic that led him to the conclusion. firing coaches shows you're not resting on your laurels. cutting players who under perform shows you're not resting on your laurels. keeping up the same routine, but moving it to a new location? that doesn't say a team's not resting on its laurels.


    So from now on he's Gimpy?...nice the kid is fucked...damn...

    so now we will here how he gave it all and he's a tough player..

    but all the motherfucking,cocksucker,buttfucking ass lick suck-up prognosticators tell you how you play through the pain...nice.

    and still they go back to beat up on Cutty for not playing in the NFC Championship..Wow?..
    ..........FUCK ALL OF THEM

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Johnny Cochran, things that do NOT MAKE SENSE time:

    Shanny has Cousins ready to go. A hot QB in his own right who has solicited trade interest from other teams, why hold him out of the game? It isn't like the backup is Jason Campbell, and you know you have no shot if he goes in.

    The risk/reward makes no sense; if he blows out (which he did), you run the risk of having him not ready for next year, and potentially destroying his development as a QB, shattering his confidence and blowing the pick. The reward is, you get to go play Atlanta in Atlanta, and are probably knocked out then.

    The NFL is wacky. All the talk at the start about who was the best rookie QB, Luck or RG3. Turns out it's Russell Wilson.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    What you mean is, "it's not like his backup is Todd Collins"

  • In reply to gpldan:

    +1 on Risk/Reward concept GP.

    Shanny went into"desperation mode".

    "But at some point the hunger to win overtook common sense. Griffin was allowed to run free even as danger lurked. When disaster happened in the 340-pound form of Baltimore Ravens defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, Shanahan wasn't careful enough with RG3. He let him try to finish the Baltimore game and he allowed him to play too long against Seattle. Now Griffin's knee is damaged. He may miss significant time. The quarterback, whose long-term value to the franchise was so great that it took three first-round draft picks to get him, may never be the same player. He may never have that great, galloping burst that shot him past linebackers and safeties. We may have seen his finest days as a passer and runner. The player who returns might need to be more of a pocket passer.

    And yet nobody, apparently, told Shanahan to get Griffin off the field. Nobody dared. To work for Shanahan is to all but sign a pledge of complete acquiescence. Questions are rarely asked. Decisions are never doubted.

    Yet the biggest problem remains the culture of Shanahan in which no one questions the man wrapped in the big burgundy jacket and wearing the headset. No leader in the NFL – not Jim Harbaugh, not Bill Belichick, not Tom Coughlin – demands complete compliance the way Shanahan does. This is a trend going back to his days in Denver when he sat in his office and watched live feeds of his assistants' position meetings from a split-screen terminal. Several of those who have worked for him in the past worry about what they say lest he seek retaliation. Those who will talk of their time with him either offer gushing accolades or speak so cautiously as to reveal nothing.

    Nobody wants to upset Shanahan."

    --Les Carpenter, Yahoo Sports.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Yup, Russell is my boy. Third rounder, they have good scouts/instincts. Talk about value.

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    I think the Adidas curse is now spanning multiple sports.

    Come back DRose... Chicago needs you.

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Even WORSE, Lobo.

    That is the same knee he had repaired at Baylor.

    That CANNOT be good.

  • Hypothetical:

    Bears hire Mike McCoy. A guy from the offensive side of the ball. Emery says to him, "you are the face of the organization, it's your clubhouse, run it as you see fit."

    McCoy - again I'm making this up, I don't know - has inroads to get Perry Fewell to jump ship and come to the Bears as DC. McCoy wants to shore up the DC spot with somebody who will be with him for several years.

    Should he send Old Sauce packing? Or, because the Bears D started out so well, is this a hands-off situation?

    My take is, this fucking organization needs a shake up, and that means EVERYBODY. I put up with a decade of Lovie and his crappy interaction with the media, his revolving door of assistants, and as a fan, I put up with Madman Martz and Mike 'Everybody Loves Raymond' Tice. I would like to see a totally new regime, and I think Emery should tell the HC that he can clean the house and everybody's office, and get started as he sees fit.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I would not be upset if Marinelli leaves.

    I'm so sick of watching teams march down the field on us as we rush 4, play zone, and get picked apart by pass after pass.

    We survived off turnovers this year... but do you think we shit-can LoveRod and Peanut forgets how to cause fumbles? No.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    I thought we'd finished a lot higher defensively than we did. 16 INTs / 2 Tds. 15 FF / 8 recovered / 0 TDs. 44 sacks.

    Arizona went off - 21 INTs / 5 TDs. 17 FF / 13 rec / 3 TD. 58 sacks.

    Jets forced 22 fumbles, Eagles caused 25 recovered 22 for 5 TDs. Lovie might have fun there ... with Rod.

    One thing that did irk during the season(s) as our reluctance(inability?) to adapt in game. I know they were only in the cover 2 shell 30% of the time but it did seem like they were happy to let teams control the clock and give up yardage *hoping* for a takeaway. That's poker, not football.

  • Although we did seem to get he best out of players. Tim Jennings used to suck, and he does bite badly on stuff - with time running out in a game and the ball has to go into the endzone, he'd be biting on inside fakes.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    exactly GP.

    Out with the old (trash) and in with the new baby!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    You guys wanting Old Sauce out be CRAZY!!!

    Marinelli doesn't play the standard cover-2. He mixes in a lot of cover-3, blitzes the a gaps, blitzes the nickel, plays 4 DEs, goes into somewhat of a 3-4 with Chicken Dinner, who sometimes drops back, and other times rushes from various positions.

    He developed not ONE, but TWO PB CBs! Pepp was a PB. Briggs should have been in the PB, and IMO, so should Melton who had the 3rd most sacks by a a DT even though he was injured.

    Oh, and Izzy and Wooten both had 7 sacks too, and they were rotating.

    When Conte and Wright play, well I forget the stat, but they win.

    "With Conte and Wright paired as the Bears’ starting safeties for 10 games (dating to last season), opposing quarterbacks have combined for a 65.9 passer rating and seven touchdown passes. The Bears, meanwhile, have 19 interceptions."

    Am I missing something? Do you guys want shut-outs every game?

    The only thing I want is a bit more aggressiveness from our D, but with Marinelli at the helm, that's where it has been trending, and with Prevent Lovie out of the picture, it will only keep getting more aggressive.

    Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water...

    Let me put it this way because I actually know someone this happened to...

    If your wife referred you to a great tax guy who got you like $1,000 more on your return (legally), would you dump him because you got divorced just so you can make a clean break on all fronts?

    NO! 'Cause he's good at what he does, and you're not an idiot!

    Sure, it might be a little awkward at first, but he's a professional, and you like money, so everyone makes it work.

    In sum:

    You guys be crazy!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    do we want perry fewell? giants D was all sorts of diarrhea this season.

  • In reply to evantonio:

    20 sacks they had. Thought they had a pass rush? 15 FF, and only 8 INTs.

    If the new HC is good with keeping the Sideline Yoda then I'd be happy. It doesn't matter who the DC is if we don't get some kind of stud to live up to the middle-linebacking legacy of the Chicago Bears.

    Roach doesn't suck - but is he our man in the middle ?

  • are you tongue and cheeking this thread..blogfader????

  • Moving the Giants training camp may be a bad move, not a good one.

    Ditka moved the Bears training camp from Lake Forrest because the players went home after practice and had too many distractions.

    Though Platville did have Galena nearby and there was a casino right on the river...

    So now they are in BoubonA (right next to BourbonB); again, no real distractions. Will the Giants get to go home during training camp?

    I don't see how that makes your team better. It's like a new CEO coming in and changing things for change sake only.

    Also - let me pile on Cam Worrell and all the other dumb jocks who think hurting your team by playing through an injury is a good thing...and I'll use small words...

    It's not.

  • It's easy to forget about this.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Thanks for that!

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    That was cool. Anyone that tries to help kids is a winner in my book.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    thanks SC......and that's the stuff that make Cutty a "REAL ROLE MODEL"

    "To walk a mile in another man shoes" name me another Athlete with this?

    anyone?anyone?anyone? yeah I thought not.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Anyone else notice how bad that reporter wanted to bang Cutty? She had the look.

  • In reply to Scharfinator:

    do know, but I did notice that she had quite a FUP.

    The poor man's Lisa li?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Nothing a few pilates classes can't fix

  • In reply to Scharfinator:

    did anyone notice how bad I wanted to bang the reporter that wanted to bang Cutty? I had the same look, that come hither, I'm a smoking hot asian chick that does sports reporting now bang me look.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    you would have loved vegas

  • In reply to MB30SD:

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    always bet on black

  • In reply to Waffle:

    I wouldn't mind her revealing her sources to me one bit...

  • In reply to Scharfinator:

    Yes she did.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Great video SC.

    Not sure if you guys have heard this Madden interview defending Cutler from the Championship Game and discussing his diabetes. Great interview in my opinion.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    This, more than his on-field activities, is what makes me like Jay Cutler. I know some of you guys think I dislike him, but I assure you I don't.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I know we're all more comfortable talking about his shortcomings now, but there probably isn't anyone on here who wants to see him go.

    If they want to draft a QB in the second they think could be a Russell Wilson .. that's okay too.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Too bad Cutler tore RG3's acl-lcl

    and is the cause of aids and cancer...

  • Look at the success of coaches like McCarthy and Payton for the new model. Offensive visionaries willing to hand over the defensive end to a competent "other" like Dom Capers or Steve Spagnuolo.

    Let me offer another, slightly different, skew on this.

    I call it the Al Davis-ization of the NFL. His top evangelist still alive? Jerry Jones. Jones is the David McCavige to Al Davis' L. ROn Hubbard.

    The idea is that the big head coach is dead. That, in the end, the era of the short-timer GM has begun. And the short timer GM is going to get one big swing at-bat. That's why you see Emery racking up a ton of flying miles, he's gonna know everything he can know, cause if he fucks it, he probably won't get another shot. That's why he hasn't called Brian Billick.

    The era of the powerful head coach who really KNOWS football, both sides of the ball, is being phased out by owners who like to micromanage and proscribe to the Church of Davis.

    They like a divide, a kind of steward rather than a King, who presides over a fiery OC and DC and sot of keeps the peace and handles the press.

    Not every organization is in the Church of Al Davis. But the BEars, Cowboys and Raiders are. You can make a case that the Super Bowl Steelers with Tomlin and Arians were that way. And that the church may have beliefs that help some people, but some people think it's a bad way to run an organization and would prefer to see a strong, powerful HC in the Cowher mold.

    just a thought

  • In reply to gpldan:

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Interesting post, GP. I wonder whether it's a chicken or egg thing - i.e. is it that some owners don't want the strong head coach, or that they can't *find one* and adapt?

    Based on the tone of your post, I dare to presume that you think the former, and in that I would agree. Egos seem to grow in proportion to the stage upon which they act, and there are few stages bigger than the NFL.

    Another possibility is that given the supposed "complexity" of the modern game, there are very few coaches that understand enough to really lead on both sides of the ball. But maybe that's not the real point of the head coach. Maybe the real point is to help men believe that they have what it takes to be the best. Wasn't that a big part of how Lombardi worked his magic?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    How do the Bear fit in to this? Raiders had Davis, Cowturds have fleshy mc douche. Who's this big bad meddling owner that the Bears have? Ginny?

  • Teddy. He's Grima to Ginny's King Theoden, to keep the LOTR thing alive.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Maybe owners just get burned out on such coaches because of the friction.

    Jerry Jones did hire Jimmy Johnson, but since him doesn't want any part of those type coaches.

    Al hired Gruden

    Ginny hired Da Coach

    All fiery head strong coaches who sometimes leave a bad taste in an owner's mouth when they leave...

    Kinda like settling for a nice homebody after breaking up with a real ball buster...

  • I'm pretty sure George Halas actually hired Ditka but GInny probably was in on his firing. As for settling for the homebody, that rarely works for very long. As soon as you get your legs back under you, the fandango resumes. Like a moth to the flame...

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I'm officially putting you on notice: Henceforth, I will be expecting LOTR analogies from you on all major points of discussion...

  • I didn't listen to the the Cam interview but from what I gather my opinion is pretty much the same as everyone else's. I don't blame RGIII I blame Shanny. That was the first time I've seen Washington this year and I knew that RGIII was hurting his team and they had a viable backup. If I can see this, how is it Shanny can't?

    As far as moving training camp. All I can say is it must have been a slow news day. I don't see how that shows anything other than they moved camp. There are pros and cons to being close to home or away at camp. Whatever works for you is the right choice. It has nothing to do with an org not accepting losing.

  • Sorry, Blogfather, but I fail to see the significance of the Giants move.

    "Oh no, we don't get to go to Albany anymore! Think maybe management is upset because we missed the playoffs?"

    You think the the Bear players miss Bourbonnais?

    If you want to scare 'em, move camp back to beautiful Rensselaer, Indiana.

    I'm betting the Giants move had more to do with saving a few bucks.

  • It's probably time for Marinelli to go. We really don't know where Lovie stopped and Rod began for one.

    Secondly, I'm tired of watching games where the defense is owning the opponent but knowing if they get the ball on a short clock in a meaningful situation, the opponent WILL score. How many times have we seen the Bears with a comfortable lead heading into the half and they get scored on in the two minutes leading up to half time, leaving us to wonder how close it would get? It didn't work well against a no huddle for some reason. That's partly why Rodgers has owned the Bears the last ten games or so. This defense is also poorly designed to match up with quality quarterbacks running precision offenses. I know most teams struggle with good offenses but this is different. Lovie was willing to give opponents the underneath stuff (first downs) while waiting for the other team to make a mistake and capitalize on it. Meanwhile, the opponent is content to feed a steady stream of short passes and runs. I hated watching close games just slip away while they played that miserable fucking shell. It worked fine against average to bad quarterbacks. Not so much against the good to great ones. Great quarterbacks often put something together late, but Lovie tailored the scheme to the opponent's game winning drive.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    100% Johnny.

    I've been wondering if maybe we should slowly start moving away for solely drafting and FAing for JUST the C2 (i.e., only smaller, faster guys).

    I know we've built around it for years and to throw away that is silly, but maybe we start thinking about hopefully moving to a more dynamic and creative D.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I say move Hardin back to corner or Nickel/Dime and adopt a more aggressive bump at the line approach.

    He's like 6'3 215.

    Oh, and for xmas i'd like the middle linebacker from Alabama please. thank you santa that is all.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    disregard my last post. my acct was hacked.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    thank god... I was about to have to send an agent to hav you taken care of.

  • ‏@mikecwright
    Bears currently have 20 free agents. 18 UFAs, 1 restricted, 1 exclusive rights.

  • yow!

  • I currently have a boner.

  • ?

    Because you want to get rid of most of them?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Probably meant it as a response to this earlier comment.

  • This is why I'm not really all that optimistic on getting Long in FA.

    Pepp will cost us roughly 16M in cap next year.

    Melton, Wooten, Louis must get resigned...Lach might be.

    That's not counting the draft class which I think cost an avg of $5M against the cap per team.

    We might be able to get Keller and maybe G or special teamer, but that's about it, unless we cut a lot of fat.

  • Toub interview most likely a politcally correct courtesy.

    Have to figure Emery wants a guy from outside the current clan.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    +1 on Toub

    Singletary was Rooney Rule

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    i thought armstrong was rooney rule?

  • In reply to evantonio:

    1 minority interview out of 13 wouldn't look so good.

    I wouldn't mind if they had a chat with David Shaw of Stanford. The program didn't miss a beat when he took over from J.Harbaugh and this season, despite winning, he didn't like what he saw on offense and changed, successfully,QBs at mid-season. And he has NFL assistant experience.

    Just signed a nice extension with Stanford so I don't think he's a real option.

  • The blog seems near unanimous in Jeff's overstatement of the significance of moving Giants camp. I would like to add my name to that list.

    Having trouble coming up with new ideas, Jeff? Don't blame ya, writing something meaninful everyday must be difficult. But surely you can't be serious.

    On the Jay Cutler piece above. Do you think ESPN will ever air a piece like that on Cutty? Hell no. Fucking imbeciles.

  • Jeff still owes me a guest piece from two years ago.
    Maybe I'll write one next weekend about the "next man up" philosophy and the corresponding insecurity of pro football players in dealing with potentially severe injuries. That should be good for a couple of paragraphs.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I look forward to THAT.

    Drop some Freudian analysis in there, good as Gould.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Please do.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    True in general, but RG-III wasn't insecure; and obviously neither is Cutler. That's another one of Jay'spositives.

  • In reply to BillW:

    Jungian analysis, then.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I think Jeff should accept guest pieces from some of the regs from time to time...mix things up a bit, esp in the offseason when things drag a bit.

    After all, there's no "I' in "writing"...oh, wait...

    Maybe when he moves from ChicagoNow?

  • What keeps bringing back here is the regular posters have very informed opinions based on facts as they see them, tinged of course with the emotion that comes from being a football fan.

    What i mean is, you don't hear the lazy nonsense analysis that is so common on ESPN, SI, Tribune, SunTimes, etc.

    I don't always agree with opinions here but at least I know they come from a combination of thought, experience, and passion for the team. ESPN and the like base it on what generates "likes" and page hits. And once they get a hold of something like the 'Cutler is a quitter' angle they robotically go back to it time and again.

    It's no longer a journalists job to report the facts or to educate the readers. It's not about that anymore in any aspect of news. Sad - but if it's due to the internet, then at lesat the internet can be a place to find a community like this.

  • In reply to BillW:

    So true, Bill. Look no further than the least popular (most hated) nfl players poll from a few months back. #1 is one of the dirtiest cheapshot artists in the game. #2 is Cutler because he's pouty. Forget we've got dog killers, wife/girlfriend beaters, countless felons. The #2 most hated guy in the NFL is on the list because he's pouty. Nevermind the fact that the majority of the stuff he gets ripped to shreds over are the same shit all the elite QB's do. I wonder why that is? Could it possibly be the media driving this? NAH!

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    No, it's because he isn't an elite QB but acts like one?

    Just saying... win a SB or two and people will STFU reall quick like.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Yeah, a lot of folks, including New Yorkers, disliked Eli.

    Now, everyone kisses his rings.

    What I would really like is for Cutler to give the middle finger while being carried out by a whole new oline celebrating winning Superbowl XLVIV...

  • In reply to BillW:

    I wonder if there's a comments section like it anywhere else. The breadth of knowledge I see on here is astounding, especially on non-football issues. I always log in here before the Trib - or any other rag where the 'experts' try and anticipate the vox pop. Nobody knows the team better than the people who love them - and the recent shout-out on Chitown radio shows that we are not invisible. In Fact, ever get the feeling that people high up in Halas Hall look in now and again? I don't recall a blog ever getting a mention before.

  • Just curious - being fans of the franchise that practically invented the MLB position, where do you place Ray Lewis all time? And I mean as a player only, and ignoring pure pass rushing LBs like LT.

    Looking only at them in their prime, and not the overall career, I think I'd say it like this:
    1. Butkus
    2. everyone else

    And then I'd rank the everyone else this way:
    ??? (Lanier, Bednarik, Huff in some order).

    Few lists have Urlacher, but maybe they are just looking at retired players. I expect most will disagree where I put him, but in his prime I somewhat reluctantly say Urlacher was better overall than Samuri - based on the Dennis Green game, chasing down Reggie Bush in the conference championship game, and many others that blur together.

  • In reply to BillW:


    Your list is not in the order I would have picked.

  • In reply to BillW:

    the only thing I'm sure of is this:
    1. Butkus
    2. Lewis

    and if we're including guys like LT, I'd still put him at three.

  • LT was an outside backer. I think for his entire career no?

    But Harry Carson, the guy who stopped the run while LT was getting the big stats, was a HOF player and a real leader for a lot of years in New York. He wouldn't be #3 all time though.

  • In reply to BillW:

    As for "...practically invented the position"...

    "Bill George was the Chicago Bears’ second-round draft pick in 1951. He began his pro football career the following year as a middle guard in the then-standard five-man defensive front. Two years later, in a game against the Philadelphia Eagles, George made a now historic move that permanently changed defensive strategy in the National Football League.

    On passing plays, George’s job was to bump the center and then drop back. George, noting the Eagles success at completing short passes just over his head, decided to skip the center bump and drop back immediately. Two plays later he caught the first of his 18 pro interceptions. While no one can swear which middle guard in a five-man line first dropped back to play middle linebacker and create the classic 4-3 defense, George is the most popular choice.
    Certainly he was the first to star at the middle linebacker ."


  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    I was thinking the same thing about George earlier.

  • In reply to BillW:

    Singletary wasn't much to look at in the passing game, he was a run 'em down guy, whereas Butkus was just mayhem everywhere. I never saw much of Lambert, ray nitschke, Huff, Lanier, Bobby Bell and those guys on YT.

    The Giants linebackers of 86-90, the Saints with the minute Sam Mills, and of course the wrecking crew of our own Midway monsters (with Al Harris) are he guys I'll remember.

    How does one fit Lewis/Urlacher/Willis in with those of days gone by though? I don't know. I guess you're right though Bill, it was Butkus and then everyone else. No one LOOKED scarier than Jack Lambert.

    LT is hard to assess. He was a pass rusher ... and he was on crack.

  • Found this nice 22 min piece on Butkus - Big Ten Icons - I hadn't seen before on YT.

  • 1. AJ Hawk
    2. Dick Butkus

  • In reply to thebigcheese:

    3. Chris Zorich.

  • In reply to thebigcheese:

    So glad AJ got a haircut so I can tell the talented LB vs the scrub without checking jersey numbers, etc.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    hee hee

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:


  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    The best part is that you literally never even had to check the numbers. One tackles the quarterback, and the other gets tackled by the tailback. Seriously, AJ Hawk is just so slow that I never once confused him for Mathews.

    It was an incredible phenomenon.

  • In reply to thebigcheese:

    I think he was never cut because the coaching staff didn't want to accidentally release Matthews.
    That's the only reason he's hung around this long.
    Sneaky bastard, that one...

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:


    Oh, and good god, please don't let this guy end up in Chicago just because he used to steal beer from the players cars after games.

  • Just as teams went after Urlacher this season in the middle of the field, the Broncos will go after Lewis. He's slow and he'll have to come off in nickel or they will toast him.

  • Who ever won the pick em contest?

  • Some loon.

  • Bears re-signed Brody Eldridge (TE) to a contract today. Oh, sorry, i meant to call him by his real name, White Kellen. My mistake.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    Least we can be fairly certain he's not, say, a linebacker project. So we have that going for us!

  • Which is nice!

  • In reply to Waffle:

    Eldridge is the white Kellen Davis? How so? I don't know much about the guy. Is he a dropper? Can he pass block?

  • In reply to Crunch Buttsteak:

    I know nothing about him.

    All I know is that if I was a 6'5 265lb TE they would have to create a new draft class just to pick me before the first round. Then they would put me in the hall of fame while I was still playing....even if I got caught with hookers and midgets and midget hookers.

    This guy has had no impact on any level to this point so he is, until he proves to me otherwise, simply a fucking enormous dude but too small to play guard or tackle in the NFL.

    I keed. I'm sure he is a nice young man.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    As much as I would like to believe that talented players never get overlooked and underutilized in the NFL, I don't. The guy might be the white Kellen, but it's a little premature to say, don't you agree?

  • In reply to Crunch Buttsteak:

    i would absolutely agree with that.

    Wanna make a bet that Joe Anderson is on the 53 man roster next year if we don't go out and get a FA or draft another WR?

    Kid tackles like a crazy backup linebacker....except he's a WR just looking for a chance. Lovie wouldn't give it to him. Emery will.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    Yeah, he was great on special teams, had some nice catches in preseason, looked good on tape, and sounds hungry.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    "White Chocolate" already taken by Lach.

  • Any guesses on when Emery makes his pick? Jeff should have a contest, pick the head coach and the tie breaker would be the one closest to the actual day he announces it!

  • Fucking ridiculous:

    Ridiculous to the point of speechlessness.

    Lets not forget Jay Cutler is also to blame for the fiscal cliff, global warming and AIDS.

    Rob Ryan fired in TX? I think Lovie just found hisself a new job.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Is that real? It can't be. Well I guess it can because it's the four letter network.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Wow. That's all I got.
    Wait. Fuck RGIII. And his knee. And Shanahan. And the Redskins. I couldn't give less of a shit about his knee. I'm tired of watching him throw footballs at tires and run on a treadmill with hoses hooked to his face. Don't care. Again. Fuck his knee. I hope Cutler gets a real OC and line soon and just rips it up out there. He's a good quarterback in a perennially bad situation. And these assholes just keep piling it on. It's officially gone beyond reason.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Wow. Just.... wow.

    Now I know who to blame for this flu pandemic. Cutler.

  • In reply to Shady:

    I imagine that's a fake

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    It's not fake.

  • In reply to Crunch Buttsteak:

    Prove it.

  • I can't prove it. This is the source:

    The Sports Bank is run by Paul M. Banks. Banks has a blog on ChicagoNow. Here's the CN version of the same story:

    You can ask him if it's real in the comments.

  • Dan Wetzel at Yahoo Sports has an article that touches on the same point:

  • In reply to Crunch Buttsteak:

    I could swear that market was oversold but it just keeps making new lows...

  • In reply to Shady:

    No way that's real. No effing way.

  • In reply to Shady:


  • In reply to Shady:

    that's fucking hysterical. You guys know it's a joke right? Cor? Wad? Look at the superimposed 2011 graphic. He got hurt in 2010. hee hee. That is classic.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    He got hurt in the 2010 NFCCG, but it was in 2011. I fucking hate when people call playoff games by the date that they are held, and not the season they are apart of.....but they do it sometimes.

    I can assure you it's not fake. The are essentially agreeing with your point though, saying that RGIII was afraid of getting unfairly criticized like cutler did. They are really blaming the criticism of cutler for the knee injury, not cutler's himself; they just had a lazy and misleading way of saying it

  • In reply to thebigcheese:

    lazy and misleading or specifically designed to attract pageviews and attention?

    instead of going into a rant i'll just say that i'm not pleased with that tv outlet if that segment is in fact real. I believe I will be calling the studio and calling someones....anyones mom a whore.

  • In reply to Waffle:

    ESPN is capable of posing questions far more idiotic than "How much do you blame Jay Cutler for RG 3's knee injury." So the question itself didn't raise a red flag with me as it did with some.

    Nor did the date of Cutler's injury. Although you are correct that the injury occurred in the 2010 NFC championship game, the game was played in 2011, like thebigcheese said. So the info-blip at the bottom of the screenshot is technically correct:
    "Jay Cutler suffered knee injury in 2011 NFC Championship Game."

    I agree that it is 'more correct' to date championship games by season-year. The question is, who is more likely to BE 'more correct': an internet counterfeiter, or some poor slob who spends all day running info-blips at ESPN? If the poor slob, then you're right, the date on the screenshot is evidence of a fake.

    But I'd say the counterfeiter is more likely to be 'more correct.' Anyone who would go to the trouble of creating a fake screenshot like the one in question is probably a Bears fan, someone acutely aware of the bashing Cutler has received in the media over the past two years. He would know the season of the championship game that kicked-off the Hanie cycle. He would have carefully photoshopped it onto the screengrab. He couldn't simply have missed it if he accidentally typed the wrong date. He would have made an effort to avoid mistakes that might cause people to dismiss his work as a hoax.

    On the other hand, Charissa Thompson looks especially hot in that screengrab. It was almost certainly chosen...

    And there are other reasons to believe the story is fake. For example, the only person writing about it, initially, was Paul M. Banks. His article is posted at several different sites that he either owns or writes for. As far as I know, no "credible" site has run a similar story (I didn't do a thorough search last night, and I didn't search at all today).

    No one has posted video of the show, afaik. All I've been able to find is the screenshot posted by "WaneDog"on Twitter (again - searched last night; wasn't thorough).

    The screenshot is the only evidence Banks cites in his article. He never explicitly states that he watched the actual show. He does imply it. He also implies that Fran Tarkenton's comments were uttered on the show. But according to Michael Schottey, Tarkenton's comments came from a phone interview with Bleacher Report.

    There is a poll at the SportsNation website that asks, "How much do you blame Mike Shannahan for Robert Griffin III's knee injury," and "How much do you blame FedExField for Robert Griffin III's knee injury," but it doesn't include the question about Cutler's culpability.

    Of course, ESPN could have deleted it (or it could be there; I didn't look that hard).

    There is a poll at SodaHead, posted by "SportsNation TV," that asks all three questions (here's the Cutler question: How much do you blame Jay Cutler for Robert Griffin III's knee injury? )

    "SportsNation TV" posted the poll approximately 4 1/2 hours before WaneDog posted his alleged screengrab on Twitter (11:00 am vs 3:44 pm [EST?]).

    I doubt the "SportsNation TV" account at SodaHead is owned by ESPN. It's only a "Level 1" account and it appears to belong to an individual. There is also a "SportsNation" account at SodaHead. It is a VIP account and includes the ESPN and SportsNation logo's:

    On the other hand, the poll questions posted by "SportsNation TV" (with the exception of the Cutler question) appear to be legitimate SportsNation poll questions.

    WaneDog doesn't say where he got the screenshot. He posted it under the heading "This can't be real? @ESPN really does hate Chicago...and Jay Cutler."

    Finally, thebigcheese thinks it's real. It must be fake.

    PS: On the other hand, Deadspin is reporting the story now, with a different screengrab:

  • Score is lighting up Emery for the Singletary interview now.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    David Haugh is lighting Emery up.

    Argument: The Singletary interview allowed the public to see Teddy's hand up Phil's ass.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    So Haugh is ripping him for throwing his boss a meaningless bone. No way Singletary gets the job so who does it hurt? Haugh must be an idiot.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    Yeah, these "journalists" and djs who should be working at strip clubs are really getting desperate.

    I know people don't like to hear it, but a lot of these "interviews" are political or strategic.

    There are the Rooney Rulers, then some alums (like Singletary) get the courtesy nod, and maybe Emery owes someone somewhere a favor or two, and puts a guy on the map who otherwise wouldn't be. There's so much Nepotism and backscratching and good ole boy system in the NFL, it's bound to happen.

    Then comes the Al Davis approach, which I'm sure Emery is doing too since he's shrewd. That strategy is to mine as many expert analysis from across the league and even college/cfl to help fix the team or provide intel, info, or a certain vision which would broaden his knowledge base.

    That's just how it goes. When the 2nd interviews get announced, then we'll get a much clear picture who the contenders and pretenders are, but this might not happen until after the NFC Championship games, so we'll just be stuck in limbo til then hearing these ass clowns chat about nothing besides maybe the exciting news of signing Terrance Toliver to a future contract...

  • If there is one Bear game I wish I could have been at, it's game 6 of the 2001 season when Mike Brown took that ball from Owens and scored.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I needed that GP thanks. I absolutely miss Mike Brown!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Mike Brown would have made that int Wright dropped vs the 'Hawks in that last drive.

    Probably would have taken it back to the house just for the added drama, and we would be off and running into the playoffs on that momentum...

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I was at that game. It was the greatest game I ever attended. A good college friend and Packer fan invited me and my brother to go to the game with him. My buddy was making a ton of cash as a professional gambler at the time and got us a penthouse suite at a hotel on Michigan Ave. His uncle gave us free tickets on the 50 yard line just below the press box.

    The game seemed to be over, and a lot of posers around us left. Then Shane Matthews slowly and methodically brought the Bears back. That day I seen the greatest football play I've ever seen live. Jeff Garcia dropped back to pass, and Urlacher dropped into coverage on the opposite side of field, well past the hashmarks. Garcia rolled to the right towards us, and Urlacher sprinted across the field and knocked Garcia out of bounds for what I think was a sack. It was absolutely amazing how much ground he covered so fast.

    The last touchdown and two point conversion started the euphoria, but the Mike Brown pick six brought the house down. It was an incredible experience.

    Later that night, after my brother decided to cash it in, me and my buddy decided to catch a cab and get some breakfast. The Pakistani driver informed us that America deserved 9/11. Enraged, my buddy tried pulling him out of the cab window to kick his ass as I tried to hold him back. When the guy pulled out a gun, my buddy pulled back, but continued yelling at the dude.

    And now you know the rest of my story from that day.

  • In reply to TheFifth:

    Thats a hell of a day Fifth. Glad it didn't end in a shooting. I've been to a handful of Bears games in my life and they've lost all but one. I had to stop going. You know, for the good of the team.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    The bears are who we thought they were?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Arizona miracle for me.

  • Hear Trestman is the front runner for the coaching gig. Im not sold on this guy quite yet. CFL? WTF? IDK? OMG?

  • In reply to Fresno,Ca Bear Fan:

    Trestman is a VERY qualified candidate. In fact, he's probably safer than McCoy. Trestman has proved a leader of men, and not just a coordinator.

    Many ppl forget that he was in the NFL and coached up a lot of quality QBs.

    I'll repost this here to quell any HC angst about Trestman


    "But Trestman earned most of his reputation working with quarterbacks in the U.S. He was hired for his first coaching job at the University of Miami in 1981 when he was a law school student and became the quarterbacks coach in 1983, when Bernie Kosar led the Hurricanes to Miami's first national championship. He also has worked with Kosar with the Cleveland Browns (1988-89), the 49ers' Steve Young (1995-96) and he was the quarterbacks coach for the Oakland Raiders in 2002 when Rich Gannon was the NFL's MVP.

    Trestman also has worked in the offseason preparing quarterbacks for the NFL draft, including Bears quarterback Jay Cutler in 2006. Trestman also has worked with Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiler, Tem Tebow and Jimmy Clausen. "

    He also really wanted Russell Wilson, so his record shows he can develop QBs, something which I think is looming rather large in Emery's mind.

    Like I said before, I wonder what Emery REALLY thinks of Cutler. I think Emery's trying everything in his powers to develop Cutler, and might be picking a H.C. based on that factor for the most part.

    Trestman is a long shot, but often these interviews are to put certain guys GMs like (or owe in some way) on the map for other teams.


    "ESPN Cleveland confirms the Browns will interview Montreal Alouettes coach Marc Trestman in Chicago on Monday.
    The meeting takes place in the Windy City because the Bears are also interviewing Trestman. Montreal is 64-34 in Trestman's five seasons, including two Grey Cup victories. A West Coast offense devotee, Trestman has an impressive track record of success as a coordinator and play-caller. Alouettes QB Anthony Calvillo won back-to-back MVP awards under Trestman's tutelage. "He was smart, innovative, quarterback friendly and pass protection-conscious," ex-Raiders QB Rich Gannon said of Trestman, who was Oakland's coordinator during the Raiders 2002 Super Bowl appearance. "

    (Per Rotoworld)

  • OK, I'm hoping Jeff doesn't mind me spamming the comments. It's for a good cause.
    I decided that, for my birthday this year, I'm going to do something a little different. And I'd really like your help...I'm a big believer in the mission of the Special Olympics and this sounds like the craziest way that I can help raise money on their behalf. Please check it out, tell me I'm nuts, and then donate if you can.
    If I reach my goal of $500, I will:
    1) Wear a Borat thong (bright yellow of course) in the plunge
    If I exceed my goal of $500 by more than 50% ($750 total), I will:
    2) Wear a Borat thong WITH a moustache (yes, an authentic fake moustache) AND I will give you an autographed picture of me in it to the highest donation submitted.

    Share with your friends and family so they can also enjoy my near-freezing discomfort!
    Let me know if you are interested and I'll provide you with the donation link.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    haha...and a picture of you in a Borat yellow thong is supposed to motivate us!?

    If you reach $750, you should wear the thong, the stache, get an anal bleaching (Like in Bruno) AND sing the Kazaskhstan National Anthem

  • Hey, no Bruno. The rest I can do.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Doesn't make much sense if I don't paste the link, eh...

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:


    And btw, that chick in shady's twitpic of espn's cutler's fault is so smoking hot

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    That was my reaction too. The whole Cutler thing was just a distraction. The real story is that sportsbabe is smoking hot.

  • In reply to Crunch Buttsteak:

    I like the comment below it :
    " ....All I see is a basic lookin white chick with heavy eye makeup and hair."

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    People may be reluctant to donate via an internet site offering pictures of mustachioed men in thongs, Mike. Some might even question whether a legitimate fund raiser for the Special Olympics would offer such photos. The internet is full of scammers. If I were you I would offer the pic as third prize, you're fired (no offense, I'm sure some people would love to see you in a thong, with your nipples all icy).

  • In reply to Crunch Buttsteak:

    Hey, I give the peoples what they clamor for.

  • How did MB date go?

  • Hester is selling 2 of 3 homes he has in the lake forest area .

    He tried to return them but got nowhere .


    Good morning!!!!!!!!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    And here I thought he got a negative return on his investment...

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Yeah, too similar, you're right...:(

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Why in the hell does Devin have 3 homes in Lake Forest? Does Lovie sell real estate too?

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