On Devin Hester's Role With the 2012 Chicago Bears

There was much speculation regarding Devin Hester's future in Chicago as Phil Emery and company added both Eric Weems and Devin Thomas - both viable return men -  to strengthen Dave Toub's already-strong special teams. Fans across the oft-tedious Twitterverse wondered whether the Bears might actually trade the greatest kick returner in the history of the sport before the first round of the draft. This notion was met with a series of question marks and not-so-subtle are you seriouses from the likes of Sean Jensen and a popular Bears blogger I sleep with every night.

Today PFT, operating from an article in the Trib, speculates more succinctly on the Bears intention for Hester: less kick returns, more wide receiver. And I think it is the right move in 2012 for every reason it was the wrong move in 2009.

In 2008 Hester was a nightmare on both kick and punt returns (regardless of his statistics). He was altering special teams game plans in ways the league had never seen before as opponents seemed more willing to let the Bears start drives at their own 40 as opposed to letting Hester beating them for six. On offense he was a gimmick because his route running was almost as shaky as his comprehension of the offense. And when he stepped on the field defenses focused their attention on stopping him because they knew he was the most explosive player on the field. No matter how many times the Bears threw a bubble screen to Ridiculous, it just wasn't going to catch defenses off guard. Why would it? Safeties weren't exactly shaking at the thought of Rashied Davis exploding out of the slot. (Which, it turns out, sounds gross.)

By relieving Hester of his kick return duties and committing him to the offensive side of the ball, the Bears effectively weakened themselves in two primary areas. For my money it was the most infuriating decision of the Jerry/Lovie era.

Now times have changed. The Brandon Marshall acquisition means Devin Hester can finally slide into a natural, complimentary, speed threat role. And he'll do so with none of the attention or pressure that accompanied his first venture. If Hester can not succeed now at receiver for the Bears he will never succeed at the position for any team in the league.

With changes to the kickoff rules we are seeing the KR position significantly devalued. And with a 45% reduction in concussion-related injuries on returns this past season we may moving toward complete elimination of the play. Will Weems and Thomas fill the Danieal Manning/Johnny Knox kick return role admirably? Of course they will. But if Lovie believes he needs a kick return to alter the course or perhaps win a game he will not hesitate to stick the Skunk back there.

Hester is a Hall of Fame kick returner but I will save that fight for the end of his career. If he's going to be remembered for contributions outside the special teams arena it will be determined by his performance at the receiver slot in 2012. And I think Phil Emery has given him his best opportunity for success thus far in his career.

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  • First to hope Hester can just stay healthy and do all of that.

  • I guess it's worth a try, blogfather. Having Marshall does change things.

  • Wait, what!?!?!?

    "...and a popular Bears blogger I sleep with every night."

    Did I miss something? Was that a weird way of talking about yourself... or are you schtooping Kevin Seifert?!?!?!?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    i'm confused

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Maybe I am... from Jeffs piece above:

    "This notion was met with a series of question marks and not-so-subtle are you seriouses from the likes of Sean Jensen and a popular Bears blogger I sleep with every night."

    Scotty... I... just... don't.... understaaaand!"

  • Hey Irish, I do feel you on the this year is the year.

    The only problem we will have this year is how healthy everyone will be or can stay.

    If Emery gets another toy for Cutler then he is setting up the offense for years to come. If Emery gets a replacement or future starter on defense this year then he will be helping defense continue to stay at an elite level.

    I don't know if it's the Kool-aid or the trip to Chicago that has me this amped. Could have been the Hester highlights. Idk. Drink up amigos.

  • How did you win the tickets to the Soldier Field thing, Artoo?

  • Twitter.

  • God damn I could watch those returns all day long. Each one is like a beautiful snowflake shoved down that fat fuck Stafford's throat.

  • btw, that video is fucking awe inspiring. I can't fucking wait for football maings. Damn the off season is long.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I was grinning from ear to ear watching it. A couple of times I was laughing and mostly I was happy as hell. I love that guy!

  • After watching that video, any of you that think trading Hester is a good idea should be drug tested. My 2 fave moments in that video, jumping over Sauerbrun and Earl blowing up that SeaSquawk. I could watch that video every day for the rest of my life and not get tired of it.

    I truly think Devin will finally be put in a position to succeed at WR this year. He'll never be a #1 WR and now with Marshall on board he doesn't have to be. Not to mention, I think Tice will find ways to use him that The Genius would never consider.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    100% Canada. The seahawks one is my favorite.... not sure if it's the sunny day or earl fucking imploding that kicker, but I love that one.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    and it was a lost

  • lose

  • loss motherfuking phone...

  • You're on a roll Super.

  • I quit.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    1000% Canada. I went and posted at the bottom as soon as I saw the movie, but as you know I've posted repeatedly about the insanity of trading Hester.

    Of all the returns, the Giants missed FG is my favorite*. Not only outsmarting the bastards, but definitely more for the two Giants than Hillenmeyer DESTROYS on that play. Best special teams blocking play I've ever seen.

    * the SB return has too much personal emotion involved there to post about

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I thought his best was the one where he didn't even field the kick, he just pretended it was going to him. I think that one got called back though. Of course, returning the opening kick-off of the Superbowl was an absolute screamer. Sadly it was all downhill from there, but what a way to start. Kick your opponent square in the nuts just before the race begins.

  • it's probably more than once a day I wish there were rules prohibiting people of less than a certain IQ from having offspring

    http://network.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/10520528?headline=bernie_brewer_hates_the_cubs&sport_name=mlb

  • Devin and Devin's agent have to be down with this, as well.

    Devin is worth so much as the best PR in the game. But the top of that pay scale is nothing near what he earns if he is a legit WR threat. At times he's shown the hands and leaping, but the leaping for balls has seemed to always come with injury.

    He can be our Eddie Royal type, but I also think we have to keep in mind one important thing: Cutler doesn't like Hester that much. I have never seen Jay as disgusted as when Devin was dropping the crossing routes.

    We are losing (or need to lose): Knox, Giraffe, Zizzoblocker, Hurd of Pot and that's 4 WR we need to replace.

    Hester, Bennett & Marshall with maybe Zanzenfucker would be ok, but I still think we take Floyd if he somehow drops to us. And hope Kellen Davis develops into a threat.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    usually I am 100% against WR in rd1, but someone (jeff maybe) described floyd as a young, new Anquan. I instantly wanted him.

    He won't fall to us anyway.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    The last time a Notre Dame WR went in the first rd was 24 yrs ago back in 1988. Tim Brown was the 6th pick overall to the Raiders.

  • I watched Brown crush Big Blue in person, up close, twice.

    Brown was a near-great. Never pushed into the top echelon with the Raidah's. If somebody had given him Aikman or something, he would have been HOF.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    He'll get there anyway, don't ya think?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Tim Brown, there's a memory. Thanks Artoo.

    And he was great in my book, in any way measured. How about :

    Nine pro bowls
    Receptions 1,094
    Receiving yards 14,934
    All-purpose yards 19,683
    Touchdowns 105
    First wide receiver to win the Heisman Trophy
    NFL rookie-season record for most combined yards gained, with 2,317 (1988).
    NFL record 10 consecutive seasons with at least 75 recs
    NFL record for consecutive seasons with at least 5 TDs (11)
    NFL record for most consecutive games with more than one reception (147 games, 1993–2002)
    NFL record for consecutive starts by a wide receiver: 176

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyazfF5vkFM

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Both Weems and Thomas are WR's so there is some hope there. I can't imagine Knox playing this year. Roy might be able to hang on if he takes the minimum. There's no way I can imagine Sanz making the roster. I thought Cutler was way more disgusted with Sanz then Devin. Maybe part of that was Sanz being an undrafted rookie. Since Sanz doesn't play ST's he has almost zero value. He's like Waddle with bad hands.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    "a WR without hands is like a fork without tines"

    ... well at least he's small and slow too.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    After watching that video I really don't know why he isn't returning kicks and punts full-time. He's a return man, the GOAT. Let him do what he does and try not to make him something else. Let him make that record unassailable.

  • With the kickoff rule change, I'm pretty confident his records will be untouchable for a long time, especially if he continues to serve as punt returner for a couple of more years.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    "hope Kellen Davis develops into a threat". I don´t why but, I get de feelling that Kellen has many answers to all bears expectations.

  • In reply to elcaney:

    We've seen flashes, but nothing consistent.

  • In reply to elcaney:

    Sure hope you're right, el!

  • In reply to elcaney:

    I think his highlight reel is awesome, he just hasn't been used a lot. Definitely this season's break-out player for me.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    If Sanzenbacher is on the team I will boycott the season. you just can't tell me that there aren't ONE HUNDRED available 6'1 to 6'2 200-210 lb receivers that are bigger, faster, stronger and better than Dane fucking Sanzenbacher. I forbid him to be on the team. I absolutely fucking forbid it.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    even as a ST only player? remember, the gunner doesn't have to catch passes. it's great to have good players, but we need a few "meh" types pulling in 400-500k to round things out.

  • In reply to evantonio:

    I hear ya mang but I don't need my gunner to be a tiny, slow greased hands cracker when hundreds of guys that are 0-2 years out of college could tower over him in the position he would be playing.
    If you walked into a south florida gym with 400k in your hand you could walk out with a fucking human battering ram that runs a 4.5 and is built like a smaller middle linebacker...and who was Mr. Florida in football, ran track and played at Florida, FSU, CF, USF, etc.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    if you walked into a south florida gym with 400k in your hand you would find yourself unconscious with empty hands very, very quickly. =]

  • In reply to evantonio:

    yes, but the guy that beat my ass and stole my money would be 6'2 210 running a 4.5 !!

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    racist

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I dunno - I remember Waffle getting his ass beat pretty bad the other night. Can you run a 4.5" 40, Shady?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Woooooooooow.

    Deeeeum Johnny. That's a callout if I've ever seen one. Rabbit, getting raw wid it.

    Nun a youz guyz was on last night... escared?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I was at the White House Easter Egg Roll yesterday and didn't get home until 11pm or so. Didn't even make it into bed - just crashed in my La-Z-boy.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Wow, hobnobbin!

    Did you rub elbows with the pres and his missus?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Not hardly - that event is nuts. Wore me the hell out. Or was it carrying my three old around the South Lawn while she was on a sugar high?

  • In reply to evantonio:

    This is my favorite comment ever.

    It's like a thinly veiled threat from a South Floridian gym rat.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    favorite ever?

    i am deeply honored. thank you, good sir.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    +1

  • In reply to gpldan:

    he was worth $40 million over 4 years as the best PR in the game. that's not terrible. in fact, it's a better average than mister marshall is getting right now, no?

  • In reply to evantonio:

    I think what I meant to say, is he can extend his career several years if he develops wideout skills and lines up there regularly.

    As it stands, the HOF doesn't contain Eric Metcalf (it should). Hester needs some angle to make him legit for Canton.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    he showed his ass on national tv. if that's not HOF worthy, i don't know what is.

    http://bit.ly/I0uBUz

  • In reply to evantonio:

    I think Artoo pointed out that he didn't get that ten mill a year because it was performance-related.

  • RT @peggykusinski: #Bears Lovie Smith confirmed @MattForte22 won't take part in OTA starting Monday - has not signed franchise tender

  • I just don't see taking Gilmore with Martin on the board in this draft:

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/mock-drafts/chad-reuter/130101

    It's an un-educated call, the Bears don't value a guy like Gilmore's skills.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    No way... especially when DreK is still on. He oges first without a doubt.

    Jesus, I want some of what that dude is smoking... although from his picture, it looks to be harry potter books.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    You just ruined it... Now I see him as "drek".

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Really? Only now?

    I figured his parents did it to him on purpose. You know, kinda like that old Johnny Cash song A Boy Named Sue.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I hope we don't take Martin when we could be drafting a starting DE/DT or LB. Hightower, Perry, Poe, dudes like that. I don't see that they'd start Martin even if they drafted him. I want to win this year, I almost don't care about five years time, shit, we might all be dead by then.

  • Hes-periment gets an upgrade 2.0...

    as excited I am about this crappy lateral move.....I will role over scratch my sac's and go back to sleep...

    btw...skunk needs to go slot..simple

    as for Floyd...not sure he will be at #19

    that is all....

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Matt Bowen agrees with you on Hester:

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bears-want-more-from-Hester-Then-align-him-in-the-slot.html

  • In reply to tobijohn:

    Never mind. I've gotta read all the posts before I chime in. I see you found it earlier....

  • btw...
    in·san·i·ty   [in-san-i-tee] Show IPA
    noun, plural in·san·i·ties.

    1. the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind. Synonyms: dementia, lunacy, madness, craziness, mania, aberration.

    sounds like the Hes-periment to me!!

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    I disagree Lobo, and predict you will have to eat words on this one.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I hope your right SC..

    I will be more than glad to eat my words on this one......

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    I like R.D. Laing's definition : Insanity is a sane response to an insane situation.

  • Some other perspectives: http://nfl.si.com/2012/04/10/2012-nfl-draft-team-needs-nfc/?sct=hp_t12_a0&eref=sihp

  • Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter Retweet Dolphins Pro Bowl DE Cameron Wake, seeking new deal, was not present at start of Dolphins' voluntary off season workout program today.

    Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter Free-agent S Madieu Williams, who visted the Redskins on Friday, spent Monday meeting with the Atlanta Falcons.

    Phil, you in there? You awake Phil? Go get some man, go get some of that!!!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    We're broke MB.

    Like that Allstate Commercial says, "On a Ramon Noodle every night budget."

    Frankly, I don't know how we're even going to sign the draft class without releasing or restructuring a bit.

    I'd say unless something ridicules happens, we stay put, draft, then maybe sign some FAs from the bargain bin post draft, but more than likely bring in a few UFAs who aren't old and broken.

  • Ramon noodle? Hmm...

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Who is Ramon?

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    And who's getting his noodle every night?
    Poor bastard must be stocked up on salve and Viagra.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Ho-leeeee Shit! Cameron Wake is good, mangs! Uber-good. He's the best thing on their defense and we're broker than a crack whore's teeth. Damn.

    Matt's holding out there ... really? ... hmmmm .... the Pats have two first rounders ..... ooooh ....mmmmmm.

  • What a metaphor. Damn I love this blog.

  • Wow, sporting news has us getting Klutch, interesting

    http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-09/nfl-draft-2012-mock-draft-andrw-luck-robert-griffin-matt-kalil-brandon-weeden?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t12_a2

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    The Klutch watch begins with #9 Panthers.

    After them, every team can arguable draft K.

    Few things that might make him fall though.

    1) For some reason, experts still think he's not all that athletic. Some see him more as a James Laurinaitus (even though he ran like a 4.82).

    2) Pass rush pushes DTs, DEs, and LTs UP, so even though Keuchly might be a better prospect than Cox, Brockers, Ingram, Upshaw, Coples, Mercilus, Reiff...he still may drop because he's not known as a pass rusher.

    3) He would be a better fit in a 4-3, which means teams like the Chiefs, Jets, Chargers, Cowboys etc who pick ahead of us might pass on him.

  • I can the Seahawks getting him because they lost Hawthorne.

  • I can see that, HOWEVER, the SeaChickens play a hybrid 4-3/3-4, which is why I think they let Hawthorne go in the first place (he's more of a traditional 4-3 LB), and why I mocked Ingram/Upshaw to them over Kuechly.

    It's still a possibility, but I just think the SeaChickens are looking for more of a hybrid type rush LB.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Don't do that to me, MB.

  • Eh, I more or less agree with giving Hester a shot at slot (and even scat-back from time to time). As tempting as it would be to move up with the Bills to draft Keuchly, Rieff, Floyd, Coples...I really want THIS team to win a SB.

    By THIS team, I mean the core players. 'Lach, Briggs, Peanut, Pepp, Cutler, Hester, Garza, Bennett, and yes, Forte.

    Those guys deserve a Super Bowl.

    If this year doesn't pan out however, all bets are off next year. Forte, Hester, Briggs...anyone who doesn't produce, out prices themselves or bitches should be traded immediately for as many draft picks as we can get.

  • Emery is going to defer to Lovie unless Lovie doesn't field a winner. If we have a disaster 6-10 season this year, I think Emery would get the go-ahead from Teddy Ballgame to execute that strategy.

  • Wow... my sentiments EXACTLY.

  • We deserve one too Butch. We deserve one too. I've been waiting a lot longer than Brian Urlacher has. But yes, point taken. I really hope we see some switcheroo with the old draft picks this year, and pick up some quality starters. Perhaps moving a player that's worth soemthing to somebody? Package our lower picks into a higher one, and pick up some real quality, that would provide excellent depth if not starters.

  • fb_avatar

    That was a productive investment of 10 minutes to watch all 19 scores and (1 brilliant fake out that was called back).

    Can't wait for the draft and a good couple weeks of breaking it down afterwords.

  • DBB should have it's own turntable.fm room.

    We can just play Government Mule all day.

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/06/turntable-fm/

  • In reply to gpldan:

    you've just nominated yourself GP. Thanks!

  • I'm still a little pissed that we didn't get any compensation for losing Manning. The god damn Fudge received like three 4rth rounders or something by whatever crazy formula the NFL uses.

    We could have used an extra 4rth or 5th to try to get an extra 2nd rounder.

    Really, that's where a lot of teams are built. That's where teams begin drafting QBs, RBs, TEs, and OGs, which would leave us with plenty of CBs, LBs, WRs, OTs (and maybe even a safety or two) to choose from.

    Man, I'd really like an extra 2nd, Draft Santa...

  • 31 years old, 6'7", 318lbs via Wiki: http://bit.ly/HFij5g MT @HBalzer721: OL (T) Adam Goldberg (UFA Rams) had tryout with the #Bears.

  • Looks like Adam Goldberg was a lineman for the Vikings from '03 thru '05 during Mike Tice's tenure there.

  • adam goldberg?!?! Good jewish boy! Wait, isn't that Stone Cold Steve Austin's real name? or was that the other bald guy?

    actually... I think that's shady's real name.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    oh, never mind... his name was... goldberg: http://www.rippedworkouts.net/page/6/

    See how smart I iz?

  • This is good news even if they don't sign him because it signals to me that they aren't as happy as they report to be with Webb.

    On a sidenote (excuse my gross genaraliztion), but TWO Bear-Jews on the Oline? - has that ever happened in the history of the NFL? hmmm...

  • Still though, a 31 yr old tackle? Nah, draft a project or play Gabe or Chris, but no more Omelettes.

  • Man, after watching Hester highlights, I'm pumped up.

    He's very rare. Speed, balance, agility, explosion, craftiness, and most importantly, instincts. He's also stronger than most ppl think.

    He's def a wild card if we're ever down, and his TDs are like a line of coke to the entire team.

    Hester's highlights would be much longer too if it weren't for a bunch of phantom calls and kicker shoe lace tackles...

  • The morale effect on the team is hard to overstate. Or, as in the Arizona game, Devin finishing Urlacher's mania. Gawdamn, that was a beautiful thing!

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    FYI...Bears travel to the desert this year. Bear Nation from here in the 505 will be going by the hundreds!! Well, maybe not hundreds, but you get it.

  • In reply to 505 Bears!!:

    Do us proud, 505!

  • you guys know I'm not a bball guy, but I thought this was pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9vawcqHI0&feature=youtu.be

  • SLOT!!!!!SLOT!!!!SLOT!!!!

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bears-want-more-from-Hester-Then-align-him-in-the-slot.html

  • Boom!

    http://uncrate.com/stuff/full-metal-jacket/

    You're welcome.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peRA28m9uzY&feature=related

    aaaaand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tce-THLUE

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Hey MB, you like Jiggly Kate, I like Jiggly Keeley. Enjoy!

    http://www.fhm.com/girls/covergirls/keeley-hazell/gallery

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    interesting canada. Can't argue with that bod, but not a big fan of the face. Just my taste I guess. certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers though.

  • I hope that video reminds folks why I have repeatedly posted to this blog that I consider it idiotic to trade perhaps the most exciting player in the history of the NFL.

    Jeff, I have read some good posts from you. But to me, this was certainly one of the best to date. Well FUCKING done.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    +1 zillion Dave!

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I think we're all in love with his past Dave, but play with this. How many more years left does he have? Add to that he's only returning punts now .... his value has decreased. Now as has been suggested, if the Bills were happy to swap their 10th for our 19th plus Hester ... and you could have Kuechly for the next ten years? Would you really pass that up? For a memory?

    (ducks)

  • He was #1 in average PR yardage last year. And I don't think it was particularly close.
    And ALL kick-off returners have diminished value.
    It's his value as a punt returner that's critical to us.
    No, he's not a memory.

  • Tough choice, Irish. But not a choice the Bears are likely to have.

    And there really is no way to replace the excitement that Hester brings to the punt return game.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    If we draft another receiver then he really should go back to returning kickoffs too, aside from the fact that he gets exposed to injuries a lot more if he's a receiver. I can't even find a receiving highlight reel for him on Youtube.

  • To be honest, if Hester had not reverted to his form in 2010 or 2011, we would not be loving him that much.

    Still glad he is back to normal again.

  • Yeah and if #54 was hurt again or Peppers has an off year or Cutler doesn't get it done.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    gosh.. I am so glad that Urlacher came back to form.

    That dude is my hero.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Which is why we have to throw McClellin or Hightower int he mix, or make that move for Hightower. If #54 goes down .....

  • Here's Hester's stats in a nutshell from 2011

    Ranked 15th in total kick return yardage

    Tied for 1st with 8 other players with 1 kickoff return TD
    Ranked 22nd in kickoff returns over 20 yds
    Ranked 10th in kickoff returns over 40yds

    Was 2nd with 2 punt return TD's
    Ranked 1st in punt returns over 20yds
    Ranked 3rd in punt returns over 40yds

    Hester had 26 receptions for 369 yds and 1 TD.(Sanzy had 1 more reception than him and 3 TD's)
    Ranked 104th with 5 catches of 20 plus yards
    He also had 2 catches of over 40 yards

    The guy belongs returning kicks period. I'd be very surprised if his receiving numbers vary much from last years stats and I just don't see him picking up his game because he's just not a good WR.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    We all know Hester is not a #1. He played in an offense run by a "genius" that was clueless on how to give his QB enough time to throw the football. Last season, there were no other receivers on the roster for a good part of the season (Williams and Knox did not count, Earl was out for a bunch of games, and Martz does not know that TEs are eligible receivers).

    When you are not a #1, and you are the only threat on the field other than a running back (oh wait, he was out 1/4 of the season too), it's hard to expect much.

    Someone posted a thing by Bowen, which kind of sums up my thoughts on the whole "Hester experiment" thing.

    It would be a shame were it abandoned when we first have a roster in which it might succeed.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Not buying it Dave. The more he's involved in the passing game, the worse his numbers in the return game will get. There was a reason his return numbers went down when they incorporated him in the passing game several years ago. I'd rather have him as the most dangerous KR man in the business than as a half assed WR who is too gassed to go into ridiculous mode. I disagree.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I understand your point, Trac, but I guess I'm just more optimistic than you. Hester will not be used as an every down WR - it seems the Bears have learned that lesson. Of course, it's always possible to regress.

    Whether Tice is worth anything as an OC remains to be seen, but being free from the shackles of Ron Turner and Mike Martz *has* to be worth something.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    TRAC.........++++10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

  • On the "slot only" argument. There are ways to play to a guy's strength at every position.

    Check out this vid: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Breaking-down-Rueben-Randle-and-the-vertical-game.html

    Imagine Hester playing Randle's role and Marshall as the slot guy next to him. Figure the safety plays Marshall and the CB plays Hester. Hester's speed eats up the cushion, the safety is terrified to lose a one on one against Marshall. Add to that, the corner is going to favor staying on the outside just in case Marshall beats the safety, so when Hester uses his insane cutting speed to break inside he can get really good separation against the corner and stand a good chance beating the corner.

    Now Hester needs good hands to make that catch down field, and good route running skills not to sell out the inside move before the corner and safety over commit to stopping Marshall. But those are both reasonable expectations. This is a very dangerous play for us.

    Also worth mentioning, we can have two TEs and Bennett on the other side offering a dump off. That provides a lot of protection to Jay, so the length of the play is survivable.

  • In reply to NewBearInTown:

    I like Randle in the second if we hit it out of the park in the first with a defensive player.

  • Hester's insane cutting speed on KR's is not the same at the WR position for multiple reasons. DB's aren't running full steam ahead like they are on kick coverage's. I haven't seen anything from Hester at the WR position to make me excited. He's been a receiver for 4 or 5 years now, forget about it.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    trac...skunk is about YAC.....his ability is all about after he is moving forward and is able to see the field..he doesn't see the field as a WR.......simple!

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    And Martz kept throwing him the bubbles even though everyone knew it was going to him. Could be an interesting year for Devin.

  • I was going to say it this but I remembered that you said it.

    GOOD LORD! Do not let Tice do any damn bubble screens unless he knoweth for sure that they will work.

    That was the one play I got tired of seeing that never really worked.

  • Wow, Petrino just got ho slapped.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7798429/bobby-petrino-return-arkansas-razorbacks-coach-sources-say

  • UNC LB Zach Brown has visited #Bears

  • Hey, Irish, not sure where you are in Thailand, but be safe.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Seconded!

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    It's funny, I'm just hearing that on the TV. Pattaya is nice and safe and cosy in the gulf.

  • So you're what - a couple of hundred miles inland of the provinces they were worried about?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    inland of the Bay of Bengal, anyway...obviously, you're right on the Gulf.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    No, Im on the coast, but it's inside the gulf and safe from tsunamis. Which is nice.

  • Colston tore his acl while doing workouts

  • ouch....

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    I'd like to thank all the posters who agreed with me that Colston was a pass and injury prone.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Sorry. It was another fake Adam Schefter. My bad.

  • so then he's not injured?

  • Hahahahahahaha... Ramon noodles!

    maruchan's sortee into the Hispanic market.

    "Ramon" was voted as the most tasty and supple mexican. Oh, and the noodles will come with a side packet of chalkier.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    chalula... fucking autocorrect

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I was wondering what the hell chalkier meant.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    hahahahah... it's a new french hot sauce made from the weepings of the french army.

  • The guy belongs returning kicks period. I'd be very surprised if his receiving numbers vary much from last years stats and I just don't see him picking up his game because he's just not a good WR.

    I think a couple things:

    A) Bears couldn't sustain protection to align with Hester's deep ball threat.

    B) Against the 3rd corner, he's a huge threat, if he can be convinced to actually TRY on crossing routes.

    If you line up Hester out there, and he's your 3rd best wideout, you have a huge weapon.

    Watch the tapes from last year, when Cutler got hot and Bennet and Knox were playing well, a few times Hester came in games, and when he caught a crossing route, the defense went bananas. They started adjusting and going nickel or dime, all hell breaks loose when you have to scheme for a burner like Hester in the slot.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Fine Gp, just as long as you are willing to live with a drop off in his returns production. His legs won't be fresh and we'll miss out on "Mr. Ridiculous". You can't have it both ways with him. If the Bears try to involve him more heavily in the passing game, I predict a big drop off in his KR game. Last year I thought the Bears had a healthy balance with him. If you're saying that the Bears can get more out of him without calling his number on O too many times then I guess I could live with that. I just don't want to see him get gassed running routes.

  • God I love football. Miss being able to play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQWi1YRRgAU#!

  • SHEITE!!!!!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/report-matt-forte-wont-sign-anything-but-a-long-term-deal/

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Schefter reports that Forte “is not signing anything until he has a long-term deal” and that he won’t be in Chicago until he signs that deal

    you may lose some love from the fans Double Deuce...

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    I hope we don't have another Chris Johnson .

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Bears are going to hardball Forte. Tag you now, tag you next year. See how you like that.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I agree GP....

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    I wish my boss played ball like the Bears. 7.7 mil one year then +8 mil the next.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    fuck that guy. Seriously.

    Sorry canada and dave... he sucks.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Acting stupid, yes. Suck, no way.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    not sucks on the field... sucks in business.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I hope they do. I hope they run him into the ground for two years and then send his wonky knees to Cleveland. Even better, he threatens to sit out and we deal him, preferably before the draft.

  • http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/bears-extend-lance-briggs-through-2014/

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Another dis of Forte. I'm starting to dislike Emery.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Sigh.. He is just doing the business side that needs to be done.

  • I like that the actors really nail the original trio, in voice, manner and everything... and that it's hardcore slapstick and not some modern twist.

    http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/the-three-stooges-2012/trailers/the-three-stooges-online-trailer-28683603.html

  • In reply to gpldan:

    GP....I am pumped about this just as much as my son...

    I'm worried about the call from his teacher on the Monday after it opens as she explains to me that there is no place in third grade for classic "slapstick"!

    and I do this at his teacher conference:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwirWWnzJKM

    btw..I'm so proud of my son...BBBBBWWWWWWHHHHAAAAAHHHHHAAAA!

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Highya Snook..I got a present from ya..open it...hahahahahahahahahahahaha

    CLASSIC!

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Yuk yuk yuk. Always good for a laugh lobo.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Reviewers who have been dogging the movie seem to have completely missed the point - it's not a fucking biopic or Downton Abbey.
    It's the Three Stooges! If it's not bluntly slapstick, I'm not watching!

  • LACH....GET SOME!!!

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1141346-brian-urlacher-stud-linebacker-does-well-landing-date-with-jenny-mccarthy

  • Does anyone know if Forte will have to pay a penalty if he sits out without signing the franchise tag?

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    trac!!!!! not sure about that, seeing he has not signed the tender..there is no contract.

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    That's kinda what I'm thinking. If Forte sits out, the Bears could in effect make sure he loses 2 years of his career at least. I hope Forte isn't offended to the point where he cuts his nose off to spite his face. The shame of it all.

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Not the $30k a day penalty, at least not unless he signs the franchise tender.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1141428-nfl-rumors-matt-forte-justified-in-refusing-to-sign-bears-franchise-tender

    doesn't go into the legality though

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4675692/no-signed-deal-no-forte-at-workouts

    The key date for Forte remains July 16, the NFL’s deadline for teams to sign franchise players to multi-year extensions. If a new deal isn't done by then, Forte would have to play under the franchise designation or possibly sit out of regular-season games, which isn't likely considering the financial ramifications of missed game checks.

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Been saying that for months - he is under the gun now, much more so than last year. He needs to get his agent to find common ground real quick. No way does he start skipping game checks.

  • So, either Lance Briggs signed an extension an hour ago or he didn't - Twitter is of two minds.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    he's signed:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/bears-extend-lance-briggs-through-2014/

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    Ah, good - I was so confused.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    good news

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Not to Matt Forte.

  • This sort of shit happening so close to the new CBA which players accepted that included Franchise designations is unacceptable. Players cannot simply hold teams hostage on this issue and Forte will get what is coming to him good or bad.

    He'd better sign that tender or he is going to fuck himself. At some point teams have to take a stand and just because a player does well doens't mean he has the right to fuck the team up. The Texans got assblasted by Arian Fosters contract among others and that sure as shit won't happen to the Bears. Sorry Matt, bad timing, bad advice, bad result. Sign the tender mang.

    Draft is in 2 weeks. Christmas for football fans is coming. i wonder what Santa Emery Claus will put in our stocking.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Waffle..I believe the new NFL will not see long term contracts for RB's (22 is screwed)...maybe he should try WR for the Bears..we seem to hard time understand what that positions is... nudge..nudge..say no more....wink..wink.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Hopefully two extra picks. Natch.

  • So you're going to post a compilation vid of his returns and sell him as a WR because we signed Marshall? Cmon. How many years of missed routes, running backwards and dropped passes is it going to take before we admit the GOAT is not a WR? Smh guys, enough square pegging round holes.

  • In reply to Shady:

    And this don't trade him under any circumstances garbage needs to go too. If you're going to give me a franchise LT for him, done deal. It's been fun guys, no doubt, but even the GRMOAT doesn't win you a Super Bowl, especially with the way the league is phasing out the importance of the returngame. Let's keep it real folks. See Tracs posts.

  • In reply to Shady:

    But Shady, what are the odds that you're going to even get a 3rd rounder for him, much less a franchise LT?
    It's not going to happen.
    And the changes to kickoffs are irrelevant if his primary value now is as our punt returner.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Let's not put words in Shady's mouth, I never said we SHOULD trade him, I said it was ridiculous to say we shouldn't under any circumstances. The again if you can move up and get a Jake Long or Matt Khalil type of LT, I'd do it lickity split. And we may be arguing samantics here but how are the rule changes irrelevant if the reason he's devalued to PR only is BECAUSE of the rule changes?

  • In reply to Shady:

    Well, if I were going to put words in Shady's mouth it would be:
    "Man, I was playing MW3 with Rabbit the other night, and the guy is clutch. Killing me with claymores left and right. I was scared to turn a corner. I tell you, he scares me"

    But in regards to trading Hester, it's the same point I was making on trading Matt for...two or three weeks straight.
    We'd never get equivalent value for him for what we'd be giving up at his position.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I'd agree in saying you would find it difficut to find fair value in return, but assuming a goofy team like OAK, CLE or WASH were to give you an opportunity to drastically improve your offense or defense while taking a downgrade in special teams, I'm taking the deal hands down. Gotta keep your options open Posse, like whether to go with the silencer or grenade launcher attachment on the FAD. You bastard.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Goddamn noob-tubes.

    Hate em. Hate em. Hate em.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Love em love em love em... sometimes, unless they don't kill a guy from 5 feet away fired into his face...

    Shady, would you like to share with the class about our little field trip to the village yesterday?

    Rabbit, you sir, are next... claymores be dammed!

  • In reply to Shady:

    Would be funny to see Washington trade even more picks to get Hester. They can save cap space and give us the rest of their 2012 draft class, which I think starts in the third round.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Seeing as we're playing fantasy, I'll have Keuchly and take my chances with Gabe at LT and Lance at RT. Take a poke at a tackle in a lower round and hope he works out someday.

  • rah..rooh...... Double Deuce...your cash is being passed out

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/three-years-17-5-million-for-briggs/

    WAKE THE F UP #22...your train is leaving Union Station and your not on it...

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    So it’s a win-win for the Bears and Briggs, and it shows that new G.M. Phil Emery is willing to take care of the guys who have been with the team.

    WAKE UP #22!!

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    What the fuck are you talking about, Lobo? Briggs has whined for YEARS about his contract and already made a ton of money.
    Apparently, you have to wreck a Lamborghini (sp?) on the Eisenhower to get "taken care" of.

    Review the concept of karma - fucking Matt Forte over cannot be a good thing for the Chicago Bears.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    He actually wrecked the Lambo on the Kennedy. Either the Addison or Irving Pk Rd exit.

    He then staggered out, and had a trailing car, who has never been discovered, pick him up, leaving his wrecked Lambo there and fleeing the scene of an accident.

    Turns out, this was a smooth move. Had he stayed, he's surely tagged for his BAL. This way he hides until he's clean thanks to his liver, and then makes up a crazy story about going for help and it is all washed away.

  • one word for the Hes-periment...

    S.L.O.T.!!!!!!

    btw..get his arse back on KR's...sheesh!!!!

  • One of the highlights of the Hester highlights will always be the hit that Bennett put on the Seahawks punter.
    Just destroyed him.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    my favorite hit of that year by far. I've played that vid 50 times over to watch it. simple awesome.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    If you slow it down, you can see his soul leaving his body.

    It's making this face: :(

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Excellent!

  • So, Forte is going to refuse 7.7M this year and 9M next year, then hit the FA market (which should totally devalue HB by then) at the spry age of 28 after two years of sitting out?

    Yeah, I believe that.

    Also, in the unlikely event that he doesn't sign, does that mean that we have an extra 7.7M to play with this year?

    Or if he doesn't sign, does that mean that next year when we franchise him, THAT would officially be the first year he get's franchised? (hence, theoretically, we could franchise him two more times).

  • Also, if Forte wants to play this game, he better be prepared to pay the price. Nobody knows how patient Emery is. He may be a no B.S. type of guy, and just trade Forte for the Brown's 37th overall pick...where they'll ride him into the dirt on a perennial losing team.

  • 4E85...great point...E Train maybe this guy-

    "You mess with the bull you get the horns"

  • My understanding is that it depends on how long he holds out (if he in fact chooses the nuclear option of sitting out games). If he is active for the last six games of the season, I think the year would count towards the two year franchise tag limit. If he sat out the entire year, I thought his rights stayed with the Bears and he makes no progress towards free agency.
    But I could be all wrong on that.
    And I'm sure you're correct on the 7.7m - if he's not under contract, he's not under contract so I see no reason why it would count against the cap. The contract is only valid in both parties signed on, right?

    I'm sure NBIT can weigh in on what that could mean in terms of next year's cap figure...again, depending on how much is allocated towards this year's draft class, etc.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Heck, if he comes back the last six games, that would almost be better for the Bears since we might be getting a fresh Forte for the play-off run (although by then the trade deadline would've passed).

    I can't imagine it would get that far though. Some RB stud always goes down (see Charles, RunDMC last year) and I think Emery would trade Forte to a HB needy team instead of having to put up with the distraction on his first tour.

    Freeing up 7.7M might also be tempting to the Bears - might explain why they're cutting it so close to the cap this year.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I have no idea what next year's cap situation looks like, but I have to admit I'm a bit concerned. This new Briggs contract doesn't add a lot of new money, but it still bites another $1-2 million off of the cap. Couple that with Bush's contract, Cutler's likely extension at some point, and a few contracts getting bigger each year, and we could be over the cap at the start of 2013.

    But franchise tags are basically one year deals in every respect. They eat up the cap for the year they are in, and they pay the player a fat paycheck guaranteed.

    The Briggs deal, coupled with the linebacker market, makes me think Emery is not stingy. I would love to know what the Bears' offer is to Forte on the table right now. As I've said before, I'm offering basically the same deal as the Texans gave Foster. And if I'm Forte, with the chance to make that kind of money as a star player on a Superbowl ready offense, I'm taking it.

    Imagine getting paid $18 million guaranteed, winning the Superbowl, and getting paid by Nike to sell shoes. How do you not take that deal?

  • In reply to NewBearInTown:

    his agent NB. He is getting HORRIBLE, career damaging advice because the guy sees HIS payday. The guy is in Forte’s dome... already set up lawn furniture and a nice little chimenea. Chirp chirp chirp.

    The guy is a cancer and he's going to fuck forte's career into the ground. It's a sweet sweet deal, no doubt about it. I am VERY close to saying 'fuck forte, trade up and get richardson and show that ungrateful doooshj what 'nfl running back' and its synonym 'expendable' mean.

    His agent is a complete fucking succubus (is there such a thing in male form?) scumbag… and an idiot who obviously can't do the maths.

    ...you do take that deal if you are an intelligent, reasonable person and business man.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    MB, we don't know what Forte has turned down. The only thing I've ever read were rumors of $13-$14 mil guaranteed. That's a below market deal. He should be in the $18-$20 mil guaranteed range. Not sure why everyone takes this so personally.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Rabbit... I wasn't even talking about the fucking offer... I was just talking about the next two years of GUARANTEED franchise tag money.

    Almost $17M worth for fuck sake!!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    sorry canada... for some reason I thought your past was from MBP.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    lol

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    post

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Like I said before, he can't lose. If he signs the franchise, it's all guaranteed.

    Here's our LT, MB. Don't know if he's any good or not, but I like him. Wouldn't cost us a first rounder either. What round is he expected to go in? Looks like good value while we get DE/DT/LB help up top.

    Why do they call it a first draft? Do they get another one?

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-first-draft/09000d5d8283e70c/First-Draft-Kelechi-Osemele?continuous=true

    Overview

    Osemele is a player who will need strong coaching and guidance once entering the NFL, but if he finds his way and becomes a consistent player, he stands to be a dominant lineman based off his production and film at Iowa State. He has great athletic ability and gets off the line very quickly. He understands, for the most part, blocking with angles and within a scheme, and has the natural upper strength to keep on his blocks once he gets to them. When using technique, Osemele is one of the more powerful and dominant blockers in the country. Very rarely do defenders release themselves from his blocks, and if he can learn to get to the block sooner at the NFL level, he can be a stalwart for years to come. His potential as a go-to run blocker for the next decade could find him selected as early as the first round.
    Strengths

    Osemele is an extremely strong, natural run blocker. He is explosive off the line and can visibly jolt defenders back either with a strong arm -- extension or a ferocious uncoiling of his hips. Once engaged, he can ignite a powerful, high-kneed leg drive to keep defenders at bay. If Osemele can learn to play with consistency and channel his explosiveness, he could be an overwhelming blocker who is dominant at the next level. His natural ability is apparent in his play.
    Weaknesses

    Osemele is somewhat of a raw player and can disappear for stretches. He is highly effective once engaged, but has had trouble sticking onto blocks in the first place against more athletic players. He has to take better angles to his blocks on the second level to be effective in the NFL. He is not a pure tackle and may have more value at guard, which may make some teams wonder if he is worth the time and early-round investment as a project when they have an immediate need to fill. He is somewhat of a risk to take in the front end of the draft, despite the physical abilities that will likely land him there.

  • Sounds too much Like Omiyale... But serisously, the kid is flying up big boards and probably will go late 1st early 2nd.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    It's "incubus"...

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Ha. I actually can't stand that band. Their music is grating to me for some reason. It's the opposite of harmonious. bad.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Hate 'em. Was friends a few years back with someone whose wife -loved- them.
    Yech.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Swallowubus?

  • In reply to Shady:

    Swallow-a-bus....lol

  • In reply to NewBearInTown:

    I was thinking along the lines of the Bears leaving a 7.7 mil hole in the roster this year if Forte goes unsigned - they can move reallocate that money towards next year, can't they?

  • In reply to NewBearInTown:

    The Chicago Bears are NOT a Super Bowl ready offense without Matt Forte.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Even with him the line is still suspect. But I'm scared if I've got Forte, Bush, Cutler, Marshall, Bennett, a bunch of burners in the slot, and an up and comer at TE in Kellen Davis. Plus, Davis and/or Spaeth at TE plus Bush at RB means the Bears can compensate for the weak line play with solid blocking.

    But you are correct, I made that comment based on Forte playing this year.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I disagree, We'll run the ball with whoever is back there albeit without that much speed. Cutty with Marshall, Bush, KD, Bennett - I think we'll move the ball. Running backs don't win Superbowls. If he gets traded, we'll pick a good one in the draft.

  • In reply to NewBearInTown:

    By being a greedy prick who listen to his agent - who's a bigger prick - and thinks he's the golden goose. Here come the carving knives.

  • I'm wondering with E-Train..if he's not psyching #22's agent..spend everything and then when you finally get to set down..guess what...

    "Old Mother Hubbard's Cupboard is bare"--sorry and btw..FUCK YOU!

  • Jesus... Jeff still on the angelo bandwaggon. smh (viggorously)

    dabearsblog Cutler, Urlacher and Briggs have each taken subtle digs at Jerry Angelo over the last few days. Somewhat unfair, I think, but interesting.

    Jeff, they know a lot more than you maings. Angelo was a buffoon and a cancer. Just accept it dude... it's coming from everyone inside and outside the org.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    A buffoon AND a cancer. The dreaded org killer: canfoon.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Hahahaha... Nice. I like it.

    From here on out angelo's delta chi blog name shall be... Canfoon.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Delta Chi? Were you a Delta Chi?

    Do you know... uh... damn it.

    A few of my buddies were in Delta Chi, and I had found there "secret handshake" book... The saying starts with "Do you know (insert some old guy's last name)?" - For story's sake, let's call it "Swanson".

    They came back to U of A for homecoming to set the float on fire (not sure why, but I guess that's a thing). I drunkenly ran up and down the frat house halls screaming, "Do you know Swanson, bitches? I AM SWANSON!".

    Meanwhile, float gets set on fire - my buddy tries to put it out with his hands - gets third degree burns. Other buddy gets jumped by his DChi "brothers", and we take two idiots to the hospital that night. Same burn victim kid had jumped on a flaming couch during the Final Four riots in Tucson. Turns out his flesh is quite flammable.

    So, yeah, I knew some Delta Chi's, and they were fucking retarded (no offense to retarded people).

    Cool story, bro.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Do you know Kimball?

    (That's it)

  • regardless of right or wrong, how could they not?

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/11/prosecutor-to-announce-decision-on-zimmerman/?hpt=hp_t1

    Florida would explode into another LA after the king outcome. They HAVE to charge him... again, whether it's the right thing to do or not (I've chosen to stay on the outside).

    Also, what do some of you guys think of the buffett rule (you know, not being millionaires yourselves)?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I'm trying like hell to get into that millionaire's club and I'm all for paying more in taxes once you're up in the $$$ stratosphere....

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    everyone is and should be entitled to low capital gains tax rates and corporate rates. The same tax code applies to everyone. People should understand this.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    I have a W2 job and get hosed on my taxes. I also have a company and take full advantage of the US tax code and the writeoffs that are legally afforded to me. I also invest money to in things that pay me dividends, interest and rates of return.

    I have the exact same opportunities from a tax perspective that Buffet does. We all do, just on different scales. It is not a crime that people experience varying degrees of success based on varying degrees of skill.

    Also alot of people have a huge problem when unskilled politicians ask everyday joes for more tax revenue because they can't fucking help themselves but to find more ways to spend the fuck out of every dollar and then some. How many fucking times can we tax the same fucking dollar? It's out of hand.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    .....not that I care about this issue.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    I don't do this nearly enough... we should chat over a (few) beer(s) that I pay for some time my man.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    sounds like something that should happen in California on the beach involving fish tacos and warm coastal breezes. A man-date if you will. I'll write off the flight as long as we mention the words "I would like you to review the investment proposal I've put together". The IRS doesn't need to know that the proposal is on a napkin and is a picture of us as stick figures pounding stick figure beers on the beach eating stick figure tacos.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Seeing as the sixteenth amendment never gave provision for an income tax on wages and labor, then technically.....

    {IRISH ! NOOOOO!}

    Sorry.

  • taxes are necessary and I don't mind paying them. I do mind that an inordinate amount of the tax revenue is wasted which makes it that much more frustrating when they keep coming back to me and effectively say the following:

    ummm.....sorry to bother you again Waffle....we were talking and it looks like we need more money. You know how it is mang, congressman x needs this for his constituents and presidential candidate y needs to get re-elected and can't offend his base and joe blow retired at 52 and needs to get paid 85% of his salary until he dies.... uh, so instead of admitting that we aren't qualified enough or gutsy enough to solve the problem and possibly lose our comfy gov't positions by making tough but fair choices that would be generally unpopular but lifesaving for our country's economic future, we're just going to continue to try to raise more revenue by further taxing the same dollar that you make when you make it, when you invest it in a way we don't feel benefits the government, when you invest it in a way that does benefit us but only after it has grown to its highest point so the gov't can maximize it's profits, when you spend it, when you leave it in your own checking account. when you give too much of it away to your family to help them, when you die, when you die and are too ignorant to protect any of it from further taxes, after you die when it is disbursed, etc. that is fucked up man.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Totally. Same as when the Irish governent said tot he people 'Yeah ummm ... the banks over-extended them and we can't possibly let them pay for their own mistakes ... all those managers have to get their massive bonuses so we can't really let them fail ... ummm .... so what we're going to do is get you the taxpayer to pay gazillions of euro to bail them out, mmkay? Great, thanks. Since you're already paying a throttling 58% tax we can't really raise that so we're going to raise the retirement age and cut the pensions of the aged, fuck the schools and raise every other tax that we can. Also you'll all have to pay a flat 100 euro household tax which is completely unfair and almost identical to the one you're already paying. We should be good in another hundred years or so. Sorry about that."

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Give to Caesar what is Ceazar's. There is pain in the offering.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Buffett is a joke. He's the worst sort of human being. Nothing is stopping him from paying higher taxes. I'll bet $100 he spends tens of millions each year on high-powered tax attorneys to PREVENT him from paying higher taxes. There's not a law that states he must use every measure to pay the least amount of taxes. I'll bet another $100 he's been responsible for getting laws passed that dramatically benefit him and his holdings. He's a bloodsucker with a good PR game. He made billions on the financial crisis in ONE year solely from government (ie taxpayer or future taxpayer) handouts. Here's a good read about Warren Buffett's "savvy" business persona.
    http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/09/warren-buffett-baptist-and-bootlegger/singlepage

  • In reply to TheFifth:

    I can't blame anyone for tax aviodance, I'd do the same myself. But satanic pecker-chuggers like Buffett/Soros/whoever ... you just know they made even more gazillions off the derivatives linked to the housing crash etc. The banks all bank on everything going down the shitter, then they makew everything go down the shitter by contracting the money supply.

    Bring back the guillotine and line every one of these pricks up. I'll be there front row and center with my rootbeer and popcorn, maybe a little doobage, having a really good time as the baskets fill up.

  • You guys are both loons.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    The millionaire finally speaketh ;o)

    Which of my personalities were you talking to by the way? It's crowded in here.

    (He knows ...)

    (Shsssh!)

    (Keep it down already!)

  • In reply to TheFifth:

    Cor I think you might be a little off base about Buffet. Considering he's in the process of giving almost his entire fortune to charity, I'm pretty sure he's a decent person. I've seen his son interviewed and he's as normal as can be. Yes, Warren is leaving some money to the kids but it's a drop in the bucket compared to his net worth. All of his kids had paying jobs growing up. I've been past his house in Omaha and it's a nice house in a nice neighborhood but it's nothing special. It looks to be a house built in the '40's. Brick construction and probably around 2500 sq ft. Also, his company (Berkshire Hathaway) bought the company I worked at for over 26 years about15 years ago. There haven't been any major changes i.e., he hasn't gutted the company. Obviously you don't like the way he made his money but he doesn't strike me as the anti-christ.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    He is a long-view investor and yes, that neighborhood (Dundee) is moderately nice but not extravagant. It's certainly not the high-end area of Omaha, which is now the western edge where all the bankers and doctors build their McMansions on the golf courses.
    His house is considerably smaller than that of several kids that went to my last high school, and his family has not been given anything beyond what they've earned themselves, like CB said, to the extent of sometimes straining relationships with the younger generation.
    I don't get the dislike of him.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I somewhat get the dislike of Soros because of how he made his money, although somebody was going to do it, but you can't dislike how he's spent it relentlessly on human rights, technology, clean water, etc, if you can get past his campaign contributions.

  • This one is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWb6M44LWYM&feature=youtu.be

    I love the BJ on the bike. classic.

  • Wow, I want one of these: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/soft-serve-beer_n_1416464.html

  • Any of you guys who have played GTA will get a kick out of this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/william-todd-crime-spree_n_1415407.html

    My favorite part?

    "Inside, Todd allegedly went door to door pretending to be a female housekeeper in an attempt to rob guests. He held a Canadian couple at gunpoint and took $600 -- crying the whole time..."

  • Let's see... give a big extension to a multi-year whiner on the down slope of a career overrated by playing its entirety next to the best MLB in football.

    The guy who was half the offense for three years, played his entire sophomore season with a bum knee, and has stayed entirely out of trouble off the field cannot get a contract.

    For shame, Phillips and Emery. For shame.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    C'mon Dave, it ain't like Phil lined him up against the wall and shot him.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I understand your POV Dave, but briggs is one of the best OLB in the game every single year.... quietly. I personally think that when he wants to be, he's better than lach (OLBs doing get as many flashy pick/sack/fumbles as the guy right in the middle of the field.

    Sadly, now that he's gotten his 'new lambo tickets', I think he's going to blow it up even more next year. I love the guy even though he's been a little bit of a bitch twice.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    He can get one all right, in fact he's turning them down all the time.

    I think the Pats could be persuaded to give us the 27th pick of the 2012 NFL draft. Donta hIghtower, how do you do, meet Nick Perry, we're all going to New Orleans, isn't that sweet?

  • Are you seriously saying that the Bears are a better team with Hightower than Forte?

    Really?!

    Seriously?

  • So the last player going to the party is Paea.... Some words for the guy?

  • "Look, fatboy... nevermind that useless meathead gymrat garbage... PLAY FUCKING FOOTBALL!!! We need a fucking DT, not a fucking benchpresser."

    Then ask him if he knows who the pool boy is.

    That should do it.

    Hey, good luck!

  • Ask him if he sees himself more as a 3-tech DT or a Nose Tackle.

    And which DTs does he watch to try to get pointers.

    And what MB said lol

  • "You play for the Bears? I didn't notice. Nice breasts by the way."

  • ha!

  • what a total and complete a-hole: http://news.yahoo.com/axl-rose-declines-induction-rock-hall-211506137.html

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Speaking of a-holes, seeing as his dad ruptured his when he was four I tend to give the guy a pass.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Kinda rock and roll if you ask me...

  • "Briggs was originally scheduled to earn $6.25 million in 2013. So it's likely -- given that cap room is shrinking -- the new deal includes an up-front bump in the form of a signing bonus that can be prorated over the next three years and would likely aid in reducing his potential cap number."

    In other words, the Bears want Briggs to play in 2012 and 2013, then his last year, they're going to release him, unless he's still playing at a PB level.

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7800975/chicago-bears-give-lance-briggs-one-year-extension

  • "Chicago Bears
    Need: Offensive line

    The Bears have allowed a sack once every 10.5 dropbacks over the last two seasons, most in the NFL. No other team allowed a sack at a rate lower than once every 12.0 dropbacks.

    Fewest Dropbacks per Sack Allowed

    Last 2 Seasons

    Bears 10.5
    Cardinals 12.0
    49ers 12.4
    Dolphins 12.9

    They averaged 3.3 yards per rush up the middle last season, 30th in the NFL, with just two 20-yard rushes. When rushing to either side, the Bears averaged 5.0 yards per rush with 18 20-yard"

    http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/41768/nfc-north-draft-focus-on-offensive-line

  • Now somebody tell me Garza isn't somehow responsible for that. Tackles we have, a center we need.

  • I wonder how much of it is that Forte is not good between the tackles. I would love to see Barber's and Bell's rush avg between the tackles to gauge if it was the line or Forte (even though different linemen were blocking for each).

  • Hmmm, I think that may be available on NFL.com. I'll look.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Nope, but for everyone praising Bush (or Barber for that matter) as a runner, the comparison is not good.

    Forte simply obliterates them in YPC, and the more touches he gets, the higher his YPC. When he gets to carries 21-30, he peaks in YPC at 6.1...whereas when Barber got that many touches, his YPC fell off a cliff...all the way to 2.6.
    Bush, in the same situation, is down around 3.8 (which is a little under his career average).

    I think Bush is a great backup. Love him in that role. But there is a pretty big statistical fall-off from Forte to him.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I got that original stat from an excerpt of ScoutInc, but I'm not a paying member, so I can't research their archives to see how Barber and Bell avg between the tackles MBP.

    If anyone does have access to that info, it would be interesting to compare.

  • Huh? Did opposing NTs get all those sacks?

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Not to mention that Olin was the Center two years ago, not Garza...so, there's that.

  • Garza was our best lineman by leaps and bounds last year, jackass.

  • The sack average shot up when Cutler went out. Hanie held onto the ball way too long.

  • In reply to Jokey:

    First, the sacks didn't pile up last season until after Cutler went out with the thumb injury in Week 10. He was sacked 23 times in 10 games, which put the Bears on pace for a manageable number of 37. Cutler was sacked only five times in his last five games.

    When Caleb Hanie entered, chaos ensued. He was sacked 19 times in four games before being benched, and Josh McCown was sacked seven times in the season finale against the Vikings in Minnesota.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0408-offensive-line-bears-chicago--20120408,0,1020491.story

  • In reply to Jokey:

    Just when I had started to expunge Caleb Hanie from my brain, someone has to bring him up.
    C'mon guys, can't we just pretend the season ended early?

  • Stop reading the bleacher report. Again, if you think our tackles were the best part of the line and Garza was the worst part of the line last season you weren't watching very closely.

  • Ran across this interesting fact...

    Tashard Choice
    Jamaal Charles
    Kevin Smith
    Steve Slaton
    Felix Jones
    Rashard Mendenhall
    Chris Johnson
    Darren McFadden
    Jonathan Stewart RB
    Matt Forté
    Ray Rice
    Ryan Torain
    Tim Hightower
    Justin Forsett

    All in the same draft.
    Just goes to show how easy it is to find a good RB these days … and how quick they can vanish.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/report-cowboys-have-discussed-trading-felix-jones/

  • Exactly Butch, good call. He's not the Second Coming, he's a running back. Ten a penny. Let's cash him in while he's worth something, then draft some guy who'd be thrilled to be a millionaire running back for the Chicago Bears.

  • How many other teams would have given Forte as many touches? I think part of Matt's success is due to the Bears game plan.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I wonder how much those touches have taken it out of him. We haven't seen him since doing his MCL ... again. If we have to keep franchising him - likely with this agent of his - then he eventually walks out on us for free.

    Trade his ass while it's worth something and let's go the superbowl without him. I think two second rounders is do-able, they could be really useful. Think of the damage we could do with a 1st and 3 2nds with Emery calling the shots. You pick up Lamar Williams with one of the 2nds and you've already replaced him. Saved 8M in the process. He doesn't like what's on the table? Fuck 'im. Next.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    That's it exactly Trac. He got used a lot and we really had no other choice to. I'd love to see Forte hang around but business is business..they made an offer and like any other company if you feel it's not enough the your entitled to go elswhere if you wish. So be it then. He's getting his millions, he's good...but in the real world no one is "not replaceable". I'm sorry he's not getting what he wants. But it is what it is.

  • Yup, deep draft but I count at least 9 guys on that list that I wouldn't take over Bush let alone Forte.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Rice/Forte/Chris Johnson/Jammal Charles are one tier (arguably elite)

    McFadden/Stewart/Mendehall are in the next (Very close to elite, but certainly starters)

    The rest have been avg at best do to numerous reasons.

    Still, that's only ONE draft class. Either that was the best HB class ever, or starting (not special) HBs aren't all that rare.

    The biggest obstacles for HBs seem to be injuries, more than any other position, and that's one big plus that Rice and Forte have - relative durability.

  • *due

  • MT @RavensInsider: Source: Oregon State DB Brandon Hardin has visited Bears

  • Two thoughts for today.

    One. Forte really can't hold out but is saying he will? Either he has a lot of money we don't know about (Sam Hurd might have had a partner(crazy assumption)) or he is just trying to get all of the fans on his bandwagon like Chris Johnson did last year.

    Two. If does do what Chris Johnson did last year, the only way that it work is if Bush is horrible (did I just type that?) or if everyone gets injured. People can forget real quickly who you are Forte if we are winning and have a good record.

  • (Sam Hurd might have had a partner(crazy assumption))

    They were like Cheech & Chong, rolling down the road in a van made of weed.

  • Holy sweet baby jesus: http://www.kegworks.com/brew-cave-walk-in-beer-cooler-kegerator-1080-p175669?acid=linkshare&source=linkshare&siteID=siteID&=

    Johnny, that was not only a funny post, but a great thought maings. Common down any time. I'll show you around SD. I can try teaching you to surf, but I promise you it will be one of the hardest things you've ever done and your first day (or few months) can be just misery man. Feels like mother nature is beating the shit out on purpose. Let's book it.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    yea i lol'd at the stick figure taco comment...

  • Bell, Barber and that other little back (Allen I think) all got yards in bunches when Forte went down. They don't run routes and catch balls like he does. That's why he's special. With Marshall here and Martz gone, backs won't be catching balls as much. Bush is more than capable. I would trade Forte now if a quality offer exists. Screw the holdout circus.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    I don't think there's a whole lot of precedent on trades with players who don't have contract's johnny. I also don't think too many teams will want to pony up to the counter with the kinda cash Forte is asking for. I could be wrong but I think the Bears have as much of a chance of finding a trade partner as that dumb broad has of finding her lottery ticket she said she misplaced at McDonalds.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    The hamburgler stole it!

    Motherfucker is in the Bahamas now.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Good one!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    hahaha well played sir

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I don't know Trac, I've read here numerous times we should be trading him for at least 1 first round pick or as much as a first and second rounder. If you read it here, it must be true.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    It goes without saying that any trade for Forte includes his signature on the Tag offer and a pre-negotiated long term deal with his new club. Otherwise there is nothing to trade and he has no reason to leave. One things for sure. He has to do something. He isn't just going to holdout indefinitely without income. He plays under the tag, takes less from the Bears long term, or gets traded.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    Bingo.
    And I don't see alot of teams out there eager to give a DeAngelo Williams contract away at the moment. I would guess we won't see anything happen until after the draft and before July 16th, when either the market will heat up for him and he gets the contract he wants from somebody else, or it doesn't and he has no choice but to sign with us for another 10 months.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    Bush is a good receiver, and I'd venture to say he's better than Forte on a screen - he can run through people, Matt can't. If he does force a trade then he'll be replaced, it won't be like we'll have to rely solely on Bush.

    People tend to forget that it was the Bears O-line blocking for Forte, that same line is even more effective with a guy behind it who can deal with contact. We'll run the ball with or without Matt, if you're relying on your back to be your big receiver you're in big trouble anyway. I've been envious of the Raiders having a guy like Bush. He can run hard, he can catch, and he's way better at blocking than Matt. If he stays we have a great backfield, if he doesn't then we add a fast guy in the draft and we have a great backfield. Losing Matt does not cost us a superbowl - losing Cutty or Lac does that - but depending on what we got for him, it might actually make us a better team.

  • How is that Forte is so easily replaced? Bush was second string with the Raiders and second string with the Bears for a reason.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Both guys have great sponsor-ship opportunities if they'd just hire me as an agent.

    Bush - could become the face of baked beans in America.

    Forte - already has a model of KIA named after him; why he's not on billboards shilling for them already, I don't know.

    C'mon guys, it's ol' MBP - all I ask is 9.5% of the gross revenue. You'll hardly feel it.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Not sure I'd like to be the face of baked beans (would have to pay pretty well). I would definitely rep the Kia car. 9.5% seems a bit high but what the hey, where do I sign? Oh, you meant for those guys. Sorry.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Hey, if I can get a contract for you with Bush's Baked Beans, you're in?
    Let's do this!

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I'm definitely in! Gotta admit I like their old commercials with the dog. I'm a sucker for animals.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    We put you in one of these:
    http://tinyurl.com/cjmya2o
    with a Bears jersey and a Canadian flag.
    Then you do the robot while you hold a can of baked beans.

    I'm the next Don Draper, motherfuckers!

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    And Forte would have been second string to Benson if he wasn't an idiot. Forte is very good, but this team is a legitimate contender and its bigger than one running back. If I'm PE, I want my starters together for all preseason activity.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    Kinda doubt that. Obviously they weren't all that happy with Cedrunk or they wouldn't have drafted Forte in the second round.

    Johnny it's called voluntary for a reason. This stuff happens all the time. We had no offseason last year and Forte was having his best season (not to mention leading the league in yds from scrimmage). This is not a big deal. If Forte isn't around once training camp starts at the end of July, then it's a big deal.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Speedy running back? Not too hard to find. We can get 4.5 yards with a lot of guys. Bush, blocks, catches - we'll be good with whoever they got in to take his spot. We'll be good. If he stay, great. It's all good. The running game does not begin and end with Matt Forte. We're the Chicago Bears, whoever is in there is the guy.

  • How can the guy leading the league in yds from scrimmage before his injury be so easy to replace? Barber had one good game rushing but it included 2 of the biggest brain farts on record. Bell racked up some nice yardage but fumbled 3 times in 40 carries. Bush avg/carry last year was 3.8 vs Forte's 4.9. That's a big difference.

  • Irish, give me some of your weed man. it must be fucking amazing. This is the dumbest sentence ever uttered on this blog.

    "Bush is a good receiver, and I'd venture to say he's better than Forte on a screen"

  • You obviously haven't seen the dude run over people, and he has hands. I like him a lot and so will Bear fans when he doews his thing.

    I love the irony of your second secntence by the way, that shit is funny.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiZsRxiPJSE

    screen pass? check

    breaking tackles? check

  • Yes he runs with more power and breaks more tackles. With his lack of speed, he has to because everyone on D has a shot at him.

  • That is funny.

  • Coach, Irish is not rational when it comes to Matt Forte.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    When it comes to Matt Forte?

    Understatement of the year - your winner is Dave!

  • Bush envy, eh? hehe

  • The 5th (of Vodka I guess) said:

    Buffett is a joke. He's the worst sort of human being. Nothing is stopping him from paying higher taxes. I'll bet $100 he spends tens of millions each year on high-powered tax attorneys to PREVENT him from paying higher taxes. There's not a law that states he must use every measure to pay the least amount of taxes. I'll bet another $100 he's been responsible for getting laws passed that dramatically benefit him and his holdings

    You would be down $200. You can send the money to Blogfather.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Buffets holding's in BH subsidiaries are going to cash in as a result of the Keystone Pipline diversion.

    Buffett's Empire is allegedly into the Fed for over a Billion. He is putting up a fight. Ten of millions seems like chump change.

    If you are taking he bet, GP, you are losing.

  • In reply to Viva:

    I think you would find that many, many conservatives in Nebraska are adamantly opposed to the Keystone going through the heart of the Ogallala Aquifer, as well as liberals like me, and rich guys like Buffett.
    Frankly, with the extent of BH's holdings, you can find pretty much any way to spin any decision made by any administration and find a way that he's going to either make money on it, or be leveraged against losses over it.
    Is the vitriol because he's a liberal? Or because he's rich?
    Soros is a much easier target if you want to pick apart his track record.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    What vitriol?

  • In reply to Viva:

    Did I say 'your'?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Your question, "Is the vitriol because he's a liberal? Or because he's rich?" suggests that MY (not to be confused with anyone else's comment) comment was vitriolic.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Pardon, then, because Corm's note was extremely vitriolic.
    You were just inferring some underhandedness, although I'm still not clear on BH having specific investments at stake that depend on a particular route for the Keystone. Did he buy up a bunch of Asian shipping firms?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    A perhaps more responsible means of saving resources and protecting the environment would be to put an end to the corn-based ethanol nonsense.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I don't have a philosophical problem with that, except for what the unintended consequences could be - but if you REALLY want to get Nebraska conservatives (most of the state outside of Omaha) riled up, try floating that idea.
    They'd march....ok, they'd fly in their corporate jets and lobby the hell out of Washington.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Coming from Iowa, it's amazing how much farmers wade in the trough. Usually while bitching about the weather, price of commodities and those welfare bums in the city. All of my mother's relatives are farmers.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    MB, Canada, I know it, dudes.

    The whole corn thing is actually rather ridiculous in this country. Back when it was more families in the business all the subsidies and distortion of the ag markets sucked, and with the ascent of ADM and the like it's worse than ever.

    Almost as bad as the Department of Defense so far as corporate welfare goes.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I admired the old Warren Buffett. The new Warren Buffett is the worst form of crony capitalist. He pushed for the government bailouts as a "disinterested citizen" while at the same time he was investing large sums of money in Goldman Sachs, Citibank, BankCorp, and GE in 2008 betting on Federal Bailouts and other special favors. I definitely have vitriol for that type of human being.

  • In reply to Viva:

    What are you talking about?

    Berkshire owns BNSF railroad. Is that what you are talking about? That somehow not having this controversial pipeline makes hauling freight more lucrative, so Buffett tried to kill the pipeline?

    You wingnuts are so dedicated to the wingnutty idea of putting Buffett in with Soros that you will make any connection, any loony bin statement in the conspiracy vein, to fuel your own misguided beliefs.

    Hey, wait! Is Ted Turner in cahoots with the liberal left too? He tried to kill it using his CNN bully pulpit!

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/22/opinion/turner-keystone-pipeline/index.html

    Or maybe it's those liberal academics at Cornell, who analyzed every facet of the pipeline and called it a TransCanada lie?

    http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

    No. No. It's none of those things. It's wingnut boogeymen like Buffett who are behind it because they want to help one of their companies out. Even though there is no data to suggest that rail freight would benefit in shipping oil and if it did, no guarantee that BNSF gets that contract. Get back to us what that happens.

    Christ.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Chew on this this, thug.

    http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/09/warren-buffett-baptist-and-bootlegger/singlepage

  • In reply to Viva:

    Facts are stubborn things, eh Viva?

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Losing sight of the obvious will make you oblivious.

    Soon MB will chime in, but you support Angelo and he can't draft for shit, so you are oblivious. (I said it for you MB. In which case I respond with a very long list of free agengts and guys he did draft, and playoff /Super Bowl appearance...and we get nowhere fast.....)

    So far so good on Emery. Winning is what we all want.

  • In reply to Viva:

    I was supporting your point of view with my comment, and lauding your use of facts about that shithead Buffet to back up your statement.

    Guess I could have stated it a bit more clearly.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Calling me a Wingnut after reading your post is comical.

  • In reply to Viva:

    I didn't catch that as an ad hominem, but this is getting interesting.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Hah, yeah, I guess it was an ad hominem. You read enough posts on here and you start ignoring them. I'm sure Irish probably sees "blargh blargh blargh Irish blargh blargh" when I call him a crazy motherfucker.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    :o)
    Apologies if I've missed anything on the last thread, I have the alcoholic in-laws over for the holidays. But don't let me interrupt this enjoyable exchange, please continue!

  • Alcoholic in laws. Lucky You! Hopefully they aren't too disruptive for the Little Ones. Hope for your sake it's a short visit. No wonder you're up at all hours of the night. Alcoholics and Chaos go hand in hand. Now that you're not drinking I hope they don't make it impossible to deal with.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Thank god Irish is sleeping or this would blow up.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Give it time.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I bet Forte lobbied for approval of the Keystone Pipeline.

    Discuss.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    tick tick tick

    In 3 years, he hasn't launched nuclear on me, so I guess I'm due

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    4:42 a.m. Just watched the most marvellous Sean Penn flick he did recently in Dublin. 'This must be the place' - wonderful stuff, and has a rare treat in it for any Talking Heads fans. Then it was Jim Carrey, Danny DeVito and Chris Walken on IATS, simulataneously dipping into the blog and learning about Ad hominems and how I'm a magnet for them.

    Sleeping indeed.

  • You sir are crazy or better equipped to deal with sleep deprivation than me. I'll check out the flick. Not sure what IATS stands for. If you like Talking Heads, Stop Making Sense is my favorite concert video. Love their music and it is the most visually entertaining concert ever filmed.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Because I'm a wingnut?

    No no no.

    I'm a liberal looney, you are a wingnut. We need to get the names straight in here or this just isn't fun anymore.

  • In reply to Viva:

    What 5th said! Bastards that get special treatment from the government (almost categorically at direct taxpayer expense), pay little to no tax, and then have the gall to sanctimoniously foam at the mouth about how "the 1%" need to pay more taxes.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    How dare he take a position that runs contrary to his own economic self-interest.

    Don't tell the tea partiers or we'll have a reenactment of Halloween III on our hands.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    it irks me a bit that his position makes no sense. He has the same tax structures available to him that his secretary does. To benefit forever from a system and then when you are solid financially to then lobby to get that system changed is bullshit. Obama is in the same position. He wrote a book, made 8 million off of it and confidently exclaimed that he would have no problem paying his fair share. Uh, that's because you wrote a 175 page book and made 8 million and it propelled you inexplicably to the white house. To not pay taxes on that stroke of incredible luck would be just downright weird . It's the Rodney Harrison principle. Rodney made his money playing dirty and aggressive like the old NFL and now lambasts the behavior as an analyst now that the rules don't apply to him since he isn't in the league. It's convenient. I'd like to see more prohibitive financial rules slapped on Buffett back when he was just trying to make it as a young man. Let's see his reaction then.
    I have the same tax advantages as Buffett. HIs secretary has the same benefits as me. Even more actually since she probably has BH stock options and probably had it since she has worked there. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if she had a substantial amount of BH stock.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Well, yeah, she works for him. I'd be surprised if she didn't have substantial investments too.

    Inexplicable? Hardly - look who the Republican candidates in 2008 were and their response to the financial meltdown. It became nearly inevitable after September that Obama would win convincingly. As for stroke of luck, you don't become a professor of Constitutional law at the U of C in spite of a pretty pedestrian background, or editor of the Harvard Law Review due to luck. You may not like him, you may not agree with his politics, but I don't think his background is indicative of someone who depended on luck or a wealthy background to get where he is. That takes work and innate political skill. I'd say the same thing about Reagan. He may be painted as stupid or doddering but he leveraged every gain he made in life until he reached the White House. The same goes for Clinton.

    By your logic, all old and/or successful players should remove themselves from politics unless they are vouching to relax all regulations in an industry where they benefited from the status quo. It may not be fair, but it may be the right thing to do.

    And as for everyone has access to the same rules, that sounds great if you have access to enough capital to take advantage of it.
    If you lose $1k in a bad trade, does it wipe you out? No, although I'm sure it irks you more than it does Buffett. There's many families in America who a $1k loss would wipe out completely. Is that good? Obviously not. And so on down the scale. So, to me, it's obvious that capital gains rates for capital investments by small players should be drastically lower than even 15%, perhaps to 0% to encourage the lowest-income earners to invest or save their earnings, while the larger players should be taxed at Reagan-era rates (28%). Or do we no longer think the late 1980's were productive?
    Investment of capital is a great thing. It allows the real creative geniuses in business to make the economy go, where banking alone is just paper or bits in a machine.
    But does it make sense to tax it at 15% when my labor is being taxed at 35% in spite of the fact that your investment relies on my labor to provide a return?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Better yet, pass the FairTax. Get rid of all taxes on everyone, except for a consumption tax.

    Nirvana.

    Except for those of you not paying taxes because you live in the cash economy. Deal with it - it would be about time you stop sponging off me.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    The FairTax has many issues I haven't heard addressed cogently:
    1) in order to mitigate it's regressive nature, because it's a giant sales tax, you end up with numerous credits all over the place.
    2) Not enough revenue by a wide margin.
    3) huge pain involved in tracking it if it's not to be paid at point-of-purchase it - expect the IRS to increase in size, not get smaller
    Some Libertarians also criticize the extent to which it would, dramatically more than existing tax plans, disconnect people from the reality of the budget versus what they're paying.
    I don't hear any Europeans telling us how great VAT taxes are either.
    I think the tax code needs to be simpler and the right incentives put in. But Fair Tax is a stick of dynamite on a mountain. You have no idea where the boulders are going to land.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    You have to look at business like a poker game. You play the game with the cards you're dealt. Some are better at it than others and can sit out a hand when prudence dictates, or up the ante when the opportunity is there. I think it's wonderful Buffet gives away so much money to charity, how much money can he spend on himself anyway. I stopped worrying about how some government plan or tax laws may or may not effect me awhile's back. Buffet's not the answer, neither was Reagan. Rugged individual fortitude, dogged determination and the refusal to quit the game of life as worked pretty well for me. Fuck Buffet and any man who tries to tell you that they know how to live "your" life better than you.

    Bless me Father for I have sinned, but I thought that four letter word saved me a whole lot of time.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    We're way closer than you think, Trac.

    You'd probably be shocked how many people I've told that there is no one better qualified how to tell them to live their lives than they are.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Life ain't fair boys. No amount of conjuring will change that.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I'm not asking for fair, I'm asking for what makes economic sense. Big difference.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Frankly, it's the people asking for regressive tax structures that seem to want "fair" tax policy, hence the name?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    solid post mang, i wasn't referring to Obama's education, work ethic or character I was referring to his book, which received little to moderate fanfare blowing up when he became the shining star of the Dems. My point was that it's easy to tell people you'll pay all this money in taxes which just so happens to coincide with your policy goals as president when millions of dollars are dropped in your lap.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Well, to be fair, the same thing could be said of Palin's bio or just about any other politician that gets a huge advance to write a book. It's a windfall that is more a result of celebrity status than anything else.
    If you're not Winston Churchill (and obviously he's not going to churn out anything new), your literary efforts will probably not be missed. It's usually a long-form for "how awesome and patriotic AM I?"...pretty boring stuff as a whole.
    And yes, I completely missed that as your point so...my bad.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    please don't use the word Palin on this blog or in any sentence with the words "politics", "political", etc. Palin, people continually being surprised that fruits and vegetables and the properties they contain combat disease and the popularity of Jerry Bruckheimer movies represent the apocalypse that is approaching.

  • I chewed on that imbecilic pablum called the Reason article, even though I doubt Viva read anything I posted, I read that tripe. Here's my first spit into the pontoon:

    In order to buy into the idea that Buffett colluded with Obama somehow, you have to first accept that Goldman Sachs needed TARP or it wouldn't have stayed afloat. This is wrong.

    1. Goldman did not want the TARP funds to begin with.
    2. Goldman is seeking to repay the TARP funds but the government does not appear willing to permit the repayment.
    3. Goldman is prohibited from redeeming the Berkshire funding until the TARP is repaid.

    Had BH taken the preferred shares and TARP *failed* in Congress, Goldman would still be afloat today.

    http://www.rationalwalk.com/?p=930

    So, the argument that Warren and Obama have some secret liberal cabal is so fucking offensive in a day where the Koch brothers are funding 95% of the SuperPAC that keeps a toad like Gingrich going, it's laughable.

    At worst, you can claim that Warren made a great deal for himself, put his own money at risk, and didn't even NEED TARP.

    And NOW? Now, Goldman is so pissed at Warren it's not even funny.


    Warren Buffett’s $5 billion investment in Goldman Sachs Group (GS), the most profitable Wall Street bank, is the stuff legends are made of and it looks like he’s going to go to extraordinary lengths to keep the profits on that investment rolling in. Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A, BRK.B) has been raking in a dividend of $500 million a year, or 10%, on the Goldman preferred shares while Goldman’s common stock yields less than 1%.

    Put another way, according to CNBC, Buffett is making $1.4 million a day, or $15 per second, on his Goldman investment. Flush with cash and with regulatory restrictions easing, Goldman wants to buy the shares back from Buffett, but the Oracle of Omaha would much prefer to hold onto this investment.

    Over the weekend, Buffett joked with CNBC, saying, “I’m going to be the Osama bin Laden of capitalism. I’m on my way to an unknown destination in Asia where I’m going to look for a cave. If the U.S. Armed forces can’t find Osama bin Laden in 10 years, let Goldman Sachs try to find me,”"

    Buffet may be an asshole, but he's pissing in Goldman's water fountain, not the taxpayers. Take that taxpayer argument and shove it alongside the Building 7 demolition tripe.

    Again, it's fashionale to think Buffett is some sort of Obama supporter for the Obama haters. But he isn't. He's a brazen capitalist who has no sides.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Shit...

    You guys are blowing my mind today.

    I thought I was the Oracle of Omaha.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Yup, boys are on fire tonight. Where else would you get this ?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Goldman put Lehman Bro's out of business. Goldman also has a revolving door at the White House. Goldman will always come out smelling like a rose.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Aren't they one of the Fed's main arteries?

    (It's ten past five Irish give it a @#$%! rest)

    Sorry.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    How many Treasury Secretaries and Federal Reserve Chairmen are Goldman Sachs alumni?

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Goldman and Morgan Stanley ABSOLUTELY conspired to fuck Richard Fuld over a giant barrel with a huge stick. No doubt. It was a shell game, they stopped the music and Lehman had the smellyist bag of shit.

    That is all quite true. Nothing to do with Buffett, but all true.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    It's a bunch of twelve year olds chasing each other with lighters through a gasoline factory.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    That last paragraph is grossly inaccurate GP. How do I know this? Jesus said a house divided cannot stand. Obama just pronounced the death of capitalism the other day and if Buffet is such a brazen capitalist, why would they be patting each other on the back?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Well, that asshat is sure campaigning on the Buffett Rule. What an embarrassment of a President.
    .

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Dave, if's there's one thing I've learned in the last few years, it's that as American's, I think our founders would have us respect the office of the Presidency no matter who is President. I believe this country was founded on the principles of Scripture and one way or another, we'll make it if we stay Americans, not Republics vs Democrats or independent's. I used to feel the way you do until I realized that both our political parties belong to the same two headed monster.

  • Ha ha...is it that time of year again when DBB dusts off the pipes and bow ties and sets up a round table on economics, conspiracy theories and social injustices?

    I love ya guys, but no one's going to convince anyone of anything on a football blog. Hell, it's hard even persuading people to trade Forte, yet alone hope to change core beliefs.

    But it's all in good fun (more or less). Just less ad hominems por favor monsieurs...

  • Hey, wait a second, who the fuck is wearing a bow-tie around here?

  • Back to a somewhat less controversial topic, Mike Wallace's situation is escalating too...

    http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/04/12/teams-interested-in-trading-for-wallace-but-will-steelers-listen/#.T4cMaWB7eCI.twitter

    As bad as Forte's situation is getting, there are some teams who have their own potential "hold outs".

    Saints-Brees
    Steelers-Wallace
    Pats-Welker
    Ravens-Rice
    Dolphins-Wake
    Lions-Avril

    It's only a matter of time before some players begin to demand trades...

  • I would trade Forte for Avrill in a heartbeat, but the Lions wouldn't...

  • In reply to Viva:

    All these players are demanding massive contracts. Brees wants 24M/yr. Wallace wants Megatron/Fitz money. Forte and Rice most likely want Foster cash. Avril would prob demand some coin too.

    But which teams have that kind of money left? Teams filled a lot of holes through the biggest FA class in NFL history, and the draft is still ahead.

    I just don't see any team making a move for disgruntled players like in the past. Maybe after the draft some trades get made, but I don't see it.

  • In reply to Viva:

    I dunno about that. The Lions have not found a running back as good as Forte in a looong time.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I don't think the Lions BT would want to see Peppers/Avril twice a year with a injury riddled QB, notwithstanding Forte's ability.

  • In reply to Viva:

    The Lions have terrible karma built up somehow.
    Kevin Jones, Kevin Smith, Jahvid Best, LeShoure...Forte would be nuts to go there anyway.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    They're expecting big things from Mikel Leshoure, and so are a lot of people around the league.

  • In reply to Shady:

    I was expecting big things from LeShoure - emphasis on the past tense.
    A torn achilles is bad news.
    Not having the common sense to avoid two arrests for marijuana possession in less than a month?
    That is also bad news.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Leshoure has shown nothing.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    and he never will. The achilles tendon is the kiss of death

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Started running again back in January and my single biggest concern every time I go is re-injuring my Achilles. That hurts so fucking much. I've never broken a major bone, just toes and fingers, but I imagine the pain is comparable.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    that sucks MBP - the lingering thoughts when you're out for a run must suck. You will live a full life mang but you won't ever take it to the house like you used to before your achilles ruptured.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Hah - I don't know if I was ever capable of taking it to the house...but I wasn't this slow.
    It sucked because I was about 1/3 of the way into training for a marathon when the tendinitis really kicked in and it took months to even walk without pain. Now it's just the normal shin splints and stuff, but I don't push it like that anymore.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    No rupture, just sprain and then tendinitis. I don't know how anybody comes back from a rupture.

  • In reply to Shady:

    Since when does Irish count as "a lot of people around the league" anyway?

  • In reply to Viva:

    There's nobody on that list we need or can afford. I still think Cleveland would do a deal, maybe even the Rams.

  • Speaking of the be-moled one... I just saw his ass again at lunch. Different place, and this time he was in a suit, not shorts, a t and flip flops.

    Get a deal done dude.

  • This conversation started with a two point wager:

    1. Warren Buffett has has used his political clout for financial reward.
    2. Warren Buffett spends "tens of millions of dollars" a year on tax attorneys.

    The only way you will be on the right side of this argument is if you can prove that Buffett only spends in the millions (less than 10) on his tax team, because on the first point you are wrong.

    Also, I didn't bring politics into this and I have no reason to hate Buffett.

    Bye the way, that tripe was an excerpt from the book, Throw Them All Out, by Peter Schweizer. The same book that investigated the insider trading dillema in congress. The same book that led Obama to sign the stock act into law:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/obama-signs-stock-act-still-more-done-peter-172415917.html

  • In reply to Viva:

    I'll give Warren a ring. We hang out and light cigars with $500 bills. It's a hoot. I'll ask him what his total bill on tax attorneys plus accountants is.

    I assume we'll have to add up the collective salary of every CPA and CFA that works at BH. Still doubt we'd hit $10M/yr, but I dunno, BH is a pretty big company. Options won't count.

  • 3rd round contingency plan (in case we trade Forte). Eh, this guy is just fun to watch. Reminds me a little of two Lions. Barry Sanders - Jahvid Best.

    LaMichael James highlights

    http://youtu.be/f1wTu5I0c3c

  • watched a couple games... good back. small and fast, but durable?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Not sure if he'd be durable in the NFL, and all those cutbacks wouldn't fly either. That's prob why he's going in the 3rd. But as a change of pace - take it to the house HB - he'd be pretty solid.

    As the old saying goes, can't hurt what you can't hit. Everyone thought CJ2000K wouldn't be durable, and he has been (apparently he only has brain damage).

  • As Jahvid Best can attest, when a scatback DOES get hit, he does get hurt.
    The brain damage comment reminded me of him.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Not in a smarmy way either. I would not be shocked if his career is over.

  • MB, you take that hot tub time machine back to the 80's and get yourself laid last night?

  • In reply to Shady:

    the night started with, "let's just be friends tonight".

    Uuuughhhh....

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Oh man, the dreaded friends line. Tough luck, my friend.

    When I was single I used to get that one and "I think of you as a brother." My favorite sister used to translate what girls were telling me when I was a kid. Her translation for the brother line; They think you're a nice guy but they wouldn't fuck you unless you had a gun on 'em.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    yep. sad.

  • The NFL site is talking about do-overs in the last 5 drafts (2011 will come out tomorrow). The only really interesting thing concerning the Bears are the comments at the end of each year (each year is written by a different person). Both the 2007 and 2010 draft articles name the Bears as having wasted drafts.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8284297c/article/jaguars-snag-native-son-tim-tebow-in-2010-draft-redo?module=HP11_hot_topics

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Yeah, I've been checking those out too Canada, and every time I leave the page I feel like kicking JA in the nuts.

    Here's another interesting revisit from PFW on the 2008 LT class (the one which I was screaming at the TV to move up and draft Clady)

    "• Chris Williams (No. 14 pick/Bears) was the only member of the group that didn’t become a regular starter in his rookie year, as Williams missed the first seven games with an injury. He was moved from left tackle to left guard in favor of a seventh-round rookie (J’Marcus Webb) during the 2010 season and missed the final seven games of last season with a wrist injury."

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/03/29/revisiting-the-first-round-ot-class-of-2008

  • Unfortunately we had Angelee at the helm and he only had the Scout's inc. scouting report to go off of. He he. The guy had no nose for talent and was the proverbial blind squirrel as one of our own so aptly coined him . When MB stands before Lord on that Blessed day, he'll have that going for him for sure.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Trac when I found out that he would just go with his gut and ignore the scouts input sometimes, I was shocked. I just thought all our scouts sucked as much ass as Numb Nuts. We'll find out this year!

  • SMH. Last year's draft might be better but it certainly isn't a sure thing. Carimi looks like a keeper IF he stays healthy. Paea has potential but I could be looking through rose colored glasses and GP could be right. Conte looks like a good but not great pick. Enderle and JT (Bob Marley) Thomas could be gone this year. That almost passes for a good draft for Numb Nuts. I'm so glad he's gone.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    shocking.... absolutely shocking.

  • It seem's even now we still have good ole Angelee to kick around.

    This guy kind of reminds me of him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCCssEas6LE&feature=related

  • Here's a funny story about "taxpayer" dollars.

    Good ol' Ross Perot, remember him? Wings of Eagles, going all commando in Iran to get his employees back. I mean, Richard Crenna played him in his bio movie. When Rambo's Colonel Troutman plays you in a movie, you are fucking bad ass.

    Became a billionare starting and running EDS, then selling it to General Motors, who (of course) mostly ran it into the ground.

    How does this happen, this Texan self made man? Well.. funny story. He's got ties going back to LBJ and Lloyd "you are no Jack Kennedy" Bentsen.

    He makes his company (and himself) getting the contract to build and maintain all the mainframes (they used those then) to run the Medicare and Medicaid system for the.... wait for it.... US Government. It was a.... wait for it.... no bid contract to boot.

    Let's all keep that funny little story in mind when we think Buffett, or Trump or any of these billionaires are truly "self-made" without a little grease into the federal space from time to time.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Yup, watch the other hand GP, watch the other hand.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    In the case of EDS *if I recall correctly*, Perot's company dropped the cost of processing a Medicare claim from like $7 to $2.50. Too bad we dont have more jobs like that.

    Compared to Obama's pals in the green energy biz, anyway.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Imagine what competition would have dropped the relative cost by.

    Can't stop yourself from taking a rip at Obama in the process, can ya?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    TRUMP?

    Who in the fuck thinks of Trump as self-made?

    His hair isn't even self made.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    I don't think his hair is even organic, much less human.
    I'm guessing some sort of nano-tube material.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Well... HE does. HE thinks he is the personification of the American male.

    When people point out it was his daddy that made all the money in real estate, he gets rather irate.

  • On the FairTax, if Posse or anyone else cares to dispel the blatant misinformation on the proposal, I suggest visiting FairTax.org.

    The FairTax is the least regressive, least complicated, and least corruptible proposal for collecting Federal revenue I've ever heard of. By a HUGE margin.

    Posse, all three objections you raised in your post are patently false, and you're far too smart to believe them if you'd actually read the materials by the people that actually developed the thing. Please do.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Try this page, if you think you can spare five minutes to learn the TRUTH about the FairTax
    http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=HowFairTaxWorks

    I dare you Posse. I double-deuce dare you :-)

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Unfortunately Dave, it makes way too much sense to ever be adopted. Seriously, is anybody who is anybody behind this so that it has half a chance of getting any traction??

  • In reply to tobijohn:

    Last I knew, these were 150-odd Reps in the House sponsoring HR25.

    What amazes me about America is that there are simple ways to get *real change* in the way this country is going, but instead a hundred million go to the polls every four years, vote for some asshat (progressively worse each time since Bush I) and pretend they've done something.

    Now back to Dancing with the Stars!

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Bush I was good for you?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    He was good for Dana Carvey.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    And for that, I weep.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Sorry Dave but the "Fair" tax wouldn't seem fair to anyone that doesn't pay any tax. It'll never sell in a million years. It's D.O.A. Find another gallant cause to champion.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    I've read that material before; I'm pretty sure we had this argument before, many moons ago.
    Although I beg to differ on the statement that it's not inherently regressive, and it's certainly not revenue neutral (sales tax and income tax not being equivalent in how they are calculated), is it less complicated? Somewhat. The prebate system is an attempt to mitigate it's strongly regressive nature (as you, Viva, and Trac in particular have said, many people don't pay federal income tax) but like I said, it adds complexity to what at first blush sounds simple. It involves tracking, validating, printing, mailing, and auditing monthly checks from the government to all 110+ million households in the United States and abroad. If that doesn't sound fairly involved...
    Is there any question that it is a national sales tax? No.
    Does a new national sales tax on consumption of new goods act as an incentive to purchase new or used goods? Pretty obviously, used goods win.
    Do used goods contribute to growth in manufacturing or retail? Pretty obviously, no.
    Hell, if you really look at it for what it is, a sales tax, the rate isn't even 23% - it's 30%....for every $1.00 I spend, I'll pay an additional $0.30 in sales tax. That's a fact - and it's kind of hokey to take a sales tax rate and act like it's an income tax for the purposes of pretending the rate is lower.
    So, at its core, the Fair Tax acts as a huge brake on two big economic sectors in the short term, raises prices without a corresponding rise in wages, and, oh by the way, for purposes of the prebate, your children are counted at, I believe, 1/3 of the value of an adult in the household. That alone is to be blunt, pretty goddamn dumb, as anyone with a child knows.
    Then, as Viva touched on, we get into the fun questions about local and state jurisdiction over their own tax base. Does the Federal government get to abolish the state income taxes in all 45 states that have one? If not, I guess I'll be filling out an income return anyway, and the state will still have to pay for the administrative costs of tax collection, I'll still have to worry about an audit, and now I'm also paying a 30% sales tax on top of it.
    Either that happens or you have the mother of all intrusions by the Feds into the ability of States,etc, to manage their own tax policy.
    I thought local was better?

    This analysis says pretty much everything that I could say, but it already has tables in it and it's written by a pretty smart conservative with much better credentials than I.

    I ask you to read it and then lets discuss again.

    http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/files/bartlett_fair_tax.pdf

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    To the working man who is proud Brownie, turning to the govt for help is anathema because that force's a man to admit he's failed to provide for his family. I believe this is a healthy form of pride by the way. I can't help but think of how well this sentiment was portrayed by Russell Crowe in Cinderella Man. How do your reconcile the fact that the human spirit suffers when stripped of the instinct to provide for his family by being continually told he can't make it without government stepping in to make life better?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-W3rv0yKf4

    If your concept of help coincides with the spirit of this movie then I'm in total agreement with you but if you think it's demeaning for a man to find himself having to do whatever it takes to provide for his family, then you and I couldn't be further apart.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Fuck pride.

    Pride only hurts - it never helps.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    I depends on what kinda pride you're talking about Willie. Definitions have changed over the years. Take out the word pride and supplant it with a man's responsibility to provide for his family if it makes my point of view any easier to understand.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I get it.. I was just quoting Marcellus Wallace.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    "...................."

    Which Pulp Fiction character was that?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Hahahahahhaa..

    I'll have to toss that out once in a while.

    You'll get quoted.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    O))+

    That's the shot of him from behind where you see the bandaid on his neck. Like it?

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    When the private sector fails to provide opportunities for American workers, as happened in the late 1920's to the 1930's in particular (since we're talking about Cinderella Man), it is primarily the -economic- imperative of the federal government to ensure that productivity is not wasted, and secondarily, a moral imperative to ensure the physical well-being of those same workers, until such time as the private sector can again make productive use of the overcapacity of working stiffs.
    It is economic suicide to think that either sector has exclusive responsibility for the health of the economy.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I understand all of that Brownie. I'm placing an emphasis on responsibility that a citizen has to do their part. Lost in translation here is the cold hard fact that enslaving another man to provide for an able bodied one that refuses to do his part is getting in the way of coming to an equitable solution to this problem because that has not ever worked in the history of man. Look across the European landscape and witness the failure of that form of government taking place right before our very eyes. We definitely have a challenge to tackle as a nation, no doubt about that.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    No doubt, which is why unemployment in nearly all cases requires you to spend a substantial amount of time seeking new work, attending classes that build skills necessary to re-enter the workforce, etc.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Greece is not Germany either, so just because they're on the same currency, let's not confuse the fact that one is getting dragged on by a dead partner, rather than thinking they're all broken economically. The problem there is less government largesse, and more the completely unrestrained explosion in bad debt when they got on the euro and wanted to keep up the Jones's.

  • Has anyone thought of totally doing away with income tax and raise the sales tax rates. Some people might just go to work while others will work even harder. Great Scott, this is a marvelous idea. What say you?

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Heaven forbid these people should WORK for a living. Much easier to vote for a Democrat, to be sure.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Before anyone jumps on Dave for being so transparent, consider this. I have an old timey Democrat friend that was behind Bill and then Hillary all the way. He's voted old timey demsacraps his whole life and even he echo's Dave's sentiments. No doubt boys, this countries in a pickle. Heap big trouble.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    When the unadjusted unemployment rate is ridiculously high (U6 number is 14.5% according to the last article I read), it's a little mind-boggling to me that either of you can sit there and blame a segment of the population that is profoundly under- and un-employed for not making enough money to pay federal income taxes.
    It's a little difficult to do that without a job.
    Growing the economy is far more important than a stupid fight over income tax rates, anyway, because if we hadn't driven ourselves over a cliff in 2006-2008 with a brand new expensive Medicare program, utter stupidity across the board when it came to home loans, and two really ill-thought-out excursions into the Middle East, we'd be humming along rather than dragging ourselves out of a near Depression.
    The Fair Tax would be a dagger in the heart of any hopes of a manufacturing rebound in this country, although it'd do wonders for overseas industries since there's no earthly way for the Feds to accurately apply a national sales tax to purchases made on the internet.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Brownie, c'mon dude. Read my comment again. I simply stated the sentiment is out there that because it's easy to live off the system, people will rather do that than work for the same amount of money. You can't ignore that unfortunate truth. If the unemployment rate is so high(which I happen to agree with you by the way), then why is one political party mis-stating the true rate? We can go round and round on every political point you make and I'm not interested in doing that.
    I brought home around 10K last year and paid over 80K in taxes last year because of earned principal/equity in my businesses. If it wasn't for my wife's salary I would have taken a 2nd job at 48 yrs old at Burger King if that's what it would have taken to make ends meet. Burger King is hiring by the way.
    I didn't drive anything off the cliff, the politicians have. I object to your "we" assumption because in spite of them, I've cut back to ridiculously frugal spending habits just to make ends meet. What I'm saying is, where there is a will, there's a way. Our current Govt. does their best to strip the working man of their will to do this and it's that mindset that I rail against more than anything.

    You throw around accusations like ignorant, bigot, stupid because you reject our real life experiences rather than explore them. I think we fall into the trap our politicians have set for us when we do this.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Let's back that train up.
    I said the income tax argument was stupid. The Fair Tax is a mirage. I didn't say you were stupid, and I don't recall calling anyone a bigot (recently).
    I did call (in particular) Dave arrogant for his statement.
    In regards to your statement that "one party" is misrepresenting the unemployment rate, that's not only partisan, it's flat-out false. The method for calculating unemployment is the same as it has been since at least 1994, and even then it was basically just changing which method was called which. Both parties have benefited from using it or criticizing it since then.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Ok, I backed up. I certainly think upon careful consideration that none of us here are cold hearted bastards but rather we disagree on the fundamentals of governmental responsibilities and capabilities. I do believe that sometime's you do have to throw the baby out with the bathwater if it is a soul killer.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I don't think you're a cold hearted bastard (although I'm not sure about Dave....just kidding, Dave)...but we do disagree on what's dragging our economy into the shitter. It's not a blame-game really; if you can't really elucidate what the problem is, you have no prayer of fixing it.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Guys, I know this is anathema to you, but people in the lowest income brackets may work even harder than you do.
    But please continue to assume that anyone that's in poverty just isn't trying hard enough. How fucking arrogant.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    MBP, while I agree it's arrogant to make such assumptions, and also agree that many folks in the lowest income brackets work as hard or harder than anyone, many folks are indeed in poverty for lack of trying hard enough. Oppurtunities are there for most all of us but you gotta put in the effort to reap the rewards.

    I heard someone say poor people aren't lazy but lazy people are often poor.

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    Again, when the unemployment rate is mid-double digits, blaming the unemployed is really strange to me. There has to be a demand for workers in order for them to work.
    Would I work at BK if I were out of a job and couldn't find something in my field? Sure, if I could get it over the teenager that doesn't have a 3 yr old at home to take care of, or the elderly guy that has no aspirations of actually working in their field again.
    Reality is that working, particularly at minimum wage, also has an opportunity cost, and that cost trickles up. If you have to work 40 hours at BK to make enough money to pay your daycare costs, gas or public transit costs, rent, and food, odds are pretty good it's not laziness preventing you from moving up in the world.

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    Don't take my response as meaning there aren't lazy poor people either. Laziness knows no bounds - lots of us around in all tax brackets.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    We are defined by our choices. Those incapable of making good decisions should not be the standard for our society. The choice to pursue the path of least resistance is a bad choice, and should not be incentivized, or more will follow.

    Abandoning their need is equally inhumane, in my opinion, which is why our society needs (and has) a robust charity infrastructure. Charities are better evaluators of need, and are more efficient at distributing those needs to the needy than is a bureaucracy. The war on poverty is a war that can not be won, because poverty has always existed, and it will continue to do so. Bureaucracies are in business to stay in business. (Same holds true with our war on drugs.)

  • In reply to Viva:

    Good decisions do not always equate to good outcomes. There is a large degree of dependence on environmental conditions for any outcome in the universe, whether you're talking about your career or the weather.

    Charity sounds great; what's your practical solution? Should we go back to the 1930's for providing for medical care for the elderly, when physicians already complain about what a burden they bear in reduced Medicare payments? Or back to the workhouses of Victorian England to address unemployment? As terrible as those were ("soul crushing" would be an apt description for them), they existed because the available charities were fundamentally insufficient for providing for the the poor.
    I think you are far more idealistic than I am.
    I want pragmatic solutions that encourage economic activity without putting people in unbearable situations.
    We want the same thing, I think - but we disagree on some basic premises from history and economics.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    BTW, I do find any use of the term "war" on anything to be prelude to some bad ideas.
    Pragmatism, not jingoism, should be the order of the day.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    A nation should set clear victory conditions when waging war. So that you know when you've won and can go home.

    It is very hard for me to imagine how one would achieve victory over a noun. So the War on Drugs, War on Terror, War on Pornography, War on Poverty, et cet ad nauseum have always somewhat flummoxed me.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Agreed on the second point, and partially on the first.
    Just finished reading "The Savage Wars of Peace" by Max Boot (a more or less paleo-conservative historian) btw. Very interesting criticism of the Powell doctrine, when you take it as a whole.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Agreed on all fronts.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    A consumption tax has been proposed, but the 16th Amendment would have to be abolished, or us productive folk, will get raked over the coals.

    The Flat Tax is the only proposal that recognizes the 16th while also ensuring that the law is applied equally to all citizens. I detest the progressive tax structure. Enslaving one man for the "need" of another is preposterous. Free men are not only the most productive on earth, we are also the most charitable.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Viva - no offense, but aren't you active-duty?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    None taken, as I am assuming you asked the question because you believe active duty guys do not pay income taxes (?)... and I would therefore not be raked over the coals...

    I went into the Marines (active duty) after college in '94 and got out in '00. Following 9/11, I went back into the Marine Reserves and was recalled to active duty in 2002 and got out in '05. I have since (July '10) joined the National Guard (reserves) and want to see how far I can go. I will be on the Lieutenant Colonel's board next year and have to stuff 5 years of shit in a two year bag. (The 5 year break in my service is counted as time in grade... not good, but I have a pretty competitive resume). If I get promoted, I can serve for another 15 years, if not, I will be out in about 2. I'm good either way. It is not a job you do for money.

    I have a great civilian job, and by great I mean I love doing it, I'm great at it, and I earn a decent living doing it.

  • In reply to Viva:

    MBP - bye the way, active duty guys do pay federal and state income taxes (some exceptions... Illinois is one) unless they are in a declared combat zone...

  • In reply to Viva:

    I'm confused.. If you don't get promoted, you will be out in two years? Is that a personal choice? Surey, after you served this two years(even unpromoted) they would be happy to extend you, neh?

  • In reply to EnderWiggin:

    Typically, if you're passed over twice for a promotion (and have exceeded the service limitations of your pay grade) you are given the boot. (There are means by which to appeal that I have not familiarized myself with, and I am hoping I won't have to make that decision at all).

    Bye the way, Ender's Game was mandatory reading at the Infantry Officer Course in the Marine Corps. I love that book.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Cool - good luck with moving up in the Reserves. Thanks for your service as well. I knew you were in the Marines at some point but couldn't remember if you were still in. You probably deploy now more than during your original active duty stint?

    My wife is active duty E-7 with 15 years in service, and I prepare our taxes.
    Her effective tax rate is way lower than mine (in spite of a big disparity in gross income, her take-home pay is higher than mine thanks to BAH and her lower rate), and that doesn't count the numerous other great benefits we get, such as tax-free purchases at the commissary, VA home loan program, GI Bill, and way more other things than I'm going to take the time to list. Those are the big ones anyway. There are plenty of examples of people also signing their re-enlistments while on a flight outside the CONUS to get the entirety of the bonus tax-free. When that's 100k for a linguist, that's a substantial chunk of tax-free income too, so some of these young dudes are paying really, really low effective rates.
    Not making much of a point other than her concept of pain when it comes to income tax is not the same as mine, but I don't have to worry about deploying to Afghanistan, just caring for my daughter if she does go.
    I'm curious as to whether the Fair Tax folks would touch military tax benefits with a ten foot pole, and I'm particularly interested in what that would do for on-base purchases.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I'm sure Viva appreciates the sentiment Brownie but to make a point(Iron sharpens iron), I'm pretty confident Viva will not count on luck to propel his career if you get my drift. I'm pretty sure he'll work his ass off and try to explore every avenue available to him in order to do so and if that fails, I betch(think Sarah Palin/Salt irritates doesn't it) he'll dust off his boots and find another avenue to move forward with. I'm pretty sure sweat and determination will probably be part of his mindset as well.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    There's a big difference between us then. I acknowledge that luck and happenstance can play a huge role in life - that doesn't mean rolling over when it turns bad, but it sure builds empathy to understand when others fail.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Yes, and to empathy I say it's best to encourage, rather than point a finger.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    It's on the site... see the FAQ, right before the BUSINESS RELATED line
    http://www.fairtax.org/site/
    ?pagename=FAQs#1

    Like all other free rides, (from a *collection of revenue* point of view), the commissary exemption would be over. That's why it's called fair, Posse.

    If military pay is too low, that is a different issue - perhaps a few less $7 billion destroyers and more pay for the enlisted grades would be something to explore.

    As far as the rest of military benefits, or *any other expenditure*, FairTax is ONLY about how the money is collected, not in any way how it is spent.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Can't hit the site again at the moment.
    I guess that was my question - many military benefits are directly related to tax exemptions in various forms, many of which are income related as with the re-enlistment bonus scenario I pointed out before (and you would not believe how common it is). I'm not advocating one way or the other on this particular point, as I obviously have a clear personal bias.

    Did you read the article I posted earlier? Comments?

  • In reply to Viva:

    FairTax.org packages repeal of the 16th Amendment with the onset of the consumption tax.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    But the 16th only impacts the Federal government's ability to collect income tax.
    So, does Fair Tax have anything to say about state and local income tax? I asked this above but there's about 90 different threads going in this post.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    And the 16th made no provision for any new taxes e.g income tax on wages and labor, and as there had been no income taxes prior to that, there is nothing requiring anyone to pay income taxes now. Illinois state law says "Anyone required to file a federal income tax return is required to file an Illinois tax return ...."
    Where's the law?

    The Government v Whitey Harrell.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CcHgHeraZI

  • When congress introduced and "ratified" the 16th amendment, they didn't edit a previous article in the constitution (Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution) that says the federal governmentt may not impose a direct tax, but only indirect taxes. The income tax is a direct tax. In 1916 there was a court case where the us supreme court found that the 16th amendment gave no new way for congress to tax.

    - from the indisputable source of the YT comments section.

  • That's not how amendments work, Irish. You don't "edit" prior articles. That's what the amendment does.
    And the 16th has been upheld by the Courts for approx. 100 years now, so no, it's not going anywhere.

    And if Illinois wants to continue to draw funds from state income taxes, it is a profoundly easy thing to change the details of state law versus a constitutional amendment, so don't expect it to go anywhere even in the absolutely remote event that the Fair Tax were to pass.

  • awesome: http://uncrate.com/stuff/scalextric-james-bond-cars/

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    You have too much time on your hands.

  • Urlacher and a former playmate: http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/brian_urlacher_jenny_mccarthy_spotted_leaving_beverly_hills_steakhouse_video/10532189?linksrc=foxrg_home

  • In reply to Viva:

    You have too much time on your hands.

    ...AND you still owe me a fat steak dinner Viva.

  • http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/40607/connecting-quinton-coples-and-the-bears

    if he drops to us...I am sure Peppers could get this guy to play all out.

  • I wonder if Jeff ever reads this stuff.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I think he glances. It would be tough to read every comment or keep track with half the stuff we say.

  • I imagine when he does, there is much head-shaking involved.
    But hey, it's our sandbox.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    "If this Willie character didn't visit from 10 different IP addresses every day, I would totally send him the way of the dodo bird and the #16 Bears Fan"

  • http://threewisemenblog.com/2006/04/17/why-flat-tax-is-stupid-and-why-rich-people-should-pay-more/

  • In reply to gpldan:

    And even FORBES, of all people, disagrees with the WSJ and flatly admits: tax repatriation won't do a damn thing for jobs, so asswipes like Cisco's John Chambers should STFU about it:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/10/13/a-repatriation-tax-holiday-wouldnt-create-jobs/

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Rich people should pay more... At least that's what I gather from the documentary "Bring the Pain"

    Famous economist Chris Rock's musings on child support (highlighted using the OJ Simpson case study) explains the following -

    "When you make 20 million, and yo wife want half. That's okay, you ain't starving. But you make 20 thousand and she wants ten, you might have to kill her"

    I assume the same hold true for taxes, right?

  • I bet the flat-taxers in here also think the Social Security cap of taxing just the first $106k is perfectly okay.

    http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/52

  • In reply to gpldan:

    But, but GPL, that extra 1% must surely be going towards buying new gimcracks for the factory, or salary increases for the menial staff around the estate.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Ceramic Poodle Chotchkies cost money.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Especially with an extra 30% on top - that's going to get pricey.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Actually, I believe all of Social Security should be privatized.

    In its current state, it is legalized theft.

  • In reply to Viva:

    And I'm the thug...

    Laughable.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Yes, you are.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Because private investment accounts did so well in 2008-2009?

    No thanks, I'll keep my money in the savings account that I've been paying into since I started working. I believe in the longevity of the American Republic more than I do the wisdom of my 401k manager.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Hope that faith extends to the FDIC

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I didn't say my belief was religious.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    And I was referencing Social Security, not a banking account with Citi or Wells Fargo.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    The FairTax'ers don't like the Social Security tax. So NO ONE would pay it.

    Problem solved.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    That alone makes it DOA.
    Social Security is the single most popular government program in history. Whether you like it or not, the vast, vast majority of voters in this country don't want it touched, and since we are still a representative democracy, at least occasionally, it's going nowhere.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Can there really be any defence of flat-tax? It's so unfair and biased towards the rich it's not even debatable. The countries in Europe that have a good high standard of living such as the scandanavian countries and Holland etc. seem to work quite well with progressive taxation.

  • That's what the prebate portion of the Fair Tax is supposed to mitigate.
    Which:
    1) it doesn't do very well, IMHO
    2) is a tacit admission that the Fair Tax is regressive to begin with.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Should employers match everything over 106K, and should business owners have to pay the 15.3% for SS and Medicare/Medicaid on every dollar they make over 106K? I've never made that, just curious what you think?

  • Communist Truman left 2.5 percent unemployment to Eisenhower.

    Republican Patriot Eisenhower left recession and 6.5 percent unemployment to Kennedy.

    Communist Johnson left 3.5 percent unemployment to Nixon.

    Republican Patriot Ford left recession and 7.5 unemployment to Jimmy Carter.

    Communist Carter wasn't able to improve much on the recession he inherited . . .

    . . . and neither were Republican Patriots Reagan and Bush, who left recession and 7.2 unemployment to Bill Clinton.

    Communist Bill Clinton left 4.2 percent unemployment to Dubya . . .

    Republican Patriot Dubya left recession and 7.6 percent unemployment to Communist Barack Obama.

    --

    Communist Kennedy/Johnson. 4.8 % average annual GDP Growth.
    Communist Truman. 3.8%
    Communist Clinton. 3.7%
    Republican Patriot Reagan 3.4%
    Communist Carter 3.3%
    Republican Patriot Eisenhower 2.9%
    Republican Patriot Nixon/Ford 2.8%
    Republican Patriot GW Bush 2.2%
    Republican Patriot GHW Bush 2.1%

  • In reply to gpldan:

    when you really dig deep and try GP you can be one of the biggest homos on this blog.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Back at cha'

  • In reply to gpldan:

    for what it's worth i shouldn't have called you a homo. I just can't stand it when you go from common sense, researched and educated thoughts and opinions to the typical smarmy party line liberal position, no thoughts all rhetoric digs at anyone in the middle or right. I can't fucking stand it and you're too educated to keep doing it.

    When you post stupid shit like the little "communist president vs republican patriot" list and dumb down a very complex subject like WORLD HISTORY it makes it harder to take your many other valid points more seriously.

    I'm done and apologize and refuse to use energy being negative. I told myself I wouldn't do it.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Really? I gotta say, nothing gets me more excited than GP actually giving a shit enough to post something politically charged.

    Artoo, a true "no comment" tribesman, jumping in and twitter-footnoting a modern day "Common Sense" would blow my fucking mind though.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Ah, the silly season returns GP. You really should amend your list to include the party affiliation makeup of the house and senate during those administrations.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Obviously have to agree with you there. It is relevant, although I'd also add in major conflicts, etc.. currency crises, and so on and so forth.
    And that takes all the partisan fun out of it.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Yeah. Hey GP, check back with me in a couple of months after your report is complete. he he.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Thug,

    Why not focus on the number of people who were starved to death in Cambodia, Cuba, Russia, China, Poland, East Germany, Bolivia, or whom were flat out slaughtered because they failed to drink the kool-aid.

    Your stat line should read something like:

    Communists: 700 million dead and counting.

    Free Nations: Extend the quality of life and standard of liv ing for all.

    I see through you asshole.

  • In reply to Viva:

    So you agree that Democrats are collectivist Bolsheviks and should be shot?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    and vietnam, and North Korea, and Iraq and on and on and on. Starvation is a brutal means to kill men women and children, but that is the consequence your leftist philosophy. 1984 is here, and you are my big brother.

    How many deaths is that?

  • In reply to Viva:

    Viva, I understand your position but GP made a commitment about a year back to tone it down and be a little less caustic with his rhetoric in which I think he's kept his word for the most part. He pulled your chain is all. Let's get back to an exchange of idea's instead of firing bullets.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Because FDR and Mao should be lumped in the same pot and burned at the stake.

    You wear those jack boots well. The corporate machine rewards you for your blind loyalty to the nation-state.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I am well aware of the pot and the kettle strategy, Thug. The Nazi's were as far to left as you can get. Polar opposite of the limited government I espouse.

    In the meantime, here is a brownshirt reference for you, Big Brother.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecDxMQcsLg

  • In reply to Viva:

    How do you know when you're not having a rationale political conversation? When someone conflates fascism, liberalism, communism, and military dictatorships.

    This has gone full retardo way sooner than I expected.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I believe they would all fall under the Totalitarian, Statist, Collectivist umbrella, no?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I'm sure your chain of command appreciates you lumping in the commander-in-chief and most of congress with Mao.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Are you really Allen West?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Shake off the dirt boys, don't rub it in. There probably not one amongst us that hasn't lost our cool here from time to time.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I'm just a little tired of how casually the "communist" tag gets thrown around in reference to Democrats anymore. It's asinine and I'd like it if my patriotism wasn't questioned because I believe in a social safety net that dates back 80 years.
    Is that too much to ask? I mean, Trac, do I strike you as Pol Pot in khakis and a polo?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    GP has been trying to bait me into saying all Democrats are communists for the past 24 hours, and I have yet to do so.

    He is a thug and I am an anti-thug. I get it. He gets it. It's what we are.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    His initial comment was absurd - your response has been equally as absurd.
    That's where we are. But thanks for putting modern American liberalism in the same basket as Nazis and Communists.
    Color me fucking flummoxed on how you went from zero-to-fucknuts in 24 hours.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    If you don't believe it, just come out and state it instead of dancing around the premise. I'm obviously not a communist, nor are any of the people that GPL cited. So can we ease the fuck up?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Here's what I think takes place on here at times. Because we all see differently on hot button issues, we often mis interpret the motives behind some of our comments. For instance, when one of us might make a comment about fraud or abuse concering social welfare programs, we may be painted as a calous. Or if someone displays concern for those who are genuinly in need and require assistance, the response may be fear based because people have a hard enough time providing for themselves, let alone feeding someone else's family. I get all that. I just think that charity has to begin at home in order for everything to gel. Personal accountablilty vs big brother. I think true Christianity(not phony bolony religiosity) addresses this issue way better than govt.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Trac, I appreciate your sentiment.
    But I fail to see how calling someone a "thug" falls under that umbrella. Or comparing liberalism to Nazism.
    How is that defensible?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    No.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    You are the one doing the lumping. I would have stopped at Saul Alinsky.

    The "ad hominen" with respect to OUR dialogue was never initiated by me, bye the way. Notwithstanding your "fucknuts and retardo" comments. I've kept it somewhat civil with you, Jackass.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    No, are you really Nancy Pelosi?

  • In reply to Viva:

    Right. You're a paragon of civic virtue.

    And obviously your responses were the very image of rhetorical restraint.

    How am I "doing the lumping"? Go read your last few posts, Viva. I was having a perfectly rational discussion with Dave and Trac, and once GPL made a tongue-in-cheek post about past presidents, you decided to throw Pol Pot, Stalin, and Hitler into a pot with half of the American electorate and your commander in chief. Each response by you after the first one just kept digging in deeper and deeper on what is an obviously absurd point That is the definition of full-on retardo.
    And Saul Alinsky? Really? Is it the eastern european twang to the name that makes it roll off your tongue like that?

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Hey Brownie, in response to your post above:

    It's never ok to lose it and reply in anger, I should know cause I'm guilty of having done that and I'll do it again I'm sure. What I'm saying is we all miss the mark from time to time. I'm sure Viva will come around when he cools off. I'm learning to forgive before the offenses even come cause we are all human don't ya know. This blog has really helped me excise self control and self correction when it comes to dialogue. Like I said before, "iron sharpens iron". I'm sure there's quite a few of us that try to measure our words when we respond and that's a good thing. Irish said that nobody will ever get their point of view changed here and maybe so, but if we look harder at one another, maybe we'll undersand each other in a way that can allow us to hear each other rather than try to shut down our opposing views. That's my 2 cents anyhow's.

  • In reply to Viva:

    Jesus chris guys... go fucking easy on one another!

    There is NO need for personal attacks. Common now.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    That's right - save the personal attacks for after I kick your ass in Free-for-all.

    You going to be on tonight? I hopped on for a few minutes last night but got distracted by the Fair Tax discussion on here.
    I am buying a couple of good trippels tonight to ease my transition into Rabbit, bringer of doom.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    yeah, we've been wondering where you were lately.

    Shady, GP and one of shady's other buddies had a few matches last night. I had to fake a rage-quite to go on date night, but was fun.

    Yeah, should be on tonight. See you and your lonely little laser pointers there.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Hey, they're never lonely for long when you're around.

    Bouncing Betties just don't have the same kind of boom.
    Been that kind of week and a half. I'll be on for sure tonight.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    GUYS GUYS GUYS!

    This is what the Packers WANT! Have you seen phrozensmegma here lately? No.

    "Why?" you may ask, but you must ask yourself "Who serves to gain from all this?" The answer: Fudgies.

    They arrive, we band together and fight the common enemy (a la Independence Day). They disappear and we begin creating the old Nurse Ratchett induced chicken coop in-fighting that made Billy Babbit a stuttering idiot.

    The bigcheese is here everyday, enjoying our slow demise.

    Sooner or later, one of our commiel/patriotn/fascist/elitist/hippie/Swiss/stoner brothers is going to give up on the navy and orange and go right to the piss and puke.

    IT'S WHAT THEY'VE PLANNED FOR YEARS!

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Fucking Wisconsinites. All Commies. All of them.

    Collectivist ownership of Lambeau, what the fuck is that???? Do you get to say "hey, this is my part of the scoreboard!"

    Come to think of it... when Rodgers has a beard he does look like Charlie Manson....

  • In reply to Viva:

    Wasn't the standard of living in the USA higher in the seventies? I digress.
    There is a very interesting exchange of ideas going on in this thread, but seems to be politically minded, whereas the problem would appear to be the economic hijacking of the country in 1913, and the loan that is crippling the country since 1933. There can be no dancing around the issue. Fifteen trillion in the hole and it can only go in one direction due to the nature of the loan and the private money cartel operating in the U.S.

    Congress knows it, the President knows it, and some of the people know itbut they're all so tied up in it.

    I have no love of politicians, but Ron Paul is the only congressman I've ever seen that regularly tugs at the curtain and tries to reveal the great and powerful Oz.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaUhGpBNBtk&feature=related

  • I lost the most influential person in my life today. My grandfather raised me since I was a little kid.

    The last memory I have of him is him coming over and me showing him my new Bears jersey and giving him one of my Bears hat. I don't recall if I gave him a hug or not but I hope I did. I know I said " Love you bye" and he said "Bye grandson"

    I don't know for sure what happens when we die. No does. I just hope he went somewhere great and that is something close to the Heaven described in the Bible. Great man and a great person. Did everything.. everything for his family.

    Goodbye Larry Grogan. Bye Pa.

    I'll talk to you guys some other time.

  • Sorry to hear that, Erik. Losing a grandparent, especially with the close relationship you had with him, is really rough.
    Hang in there.

  • When are hearts weep my friend we realize how special those moments are....

    When we can think back to all those unique souls that touch us...

    When we look back we realize that they have become the thread that is woven in the tapestry we call our lives....

    When we look forward we come to the realization they are never really gone, just hidden somewhere in the tapestry of your life....

    may your Pa be with your forever

    Blessings

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    meant our not are...damn grammar

  • very sorry to hear that Erik. My thoughts are with you today lad.

  • Yes Artoo, his influence will carry you forward even with his passing. I'm sure you'll have many fond memories and experiences to draw from. Sorry to hear of your loss and God Bless you.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5VZppw-n0

  • Really sorry to read this Super. Nothing any of us say or write can make you feel better. Just know that in time the hurt will be replaced with great feelings every time you think of him. Hang in there, my friend.

  • Artoo, sorry to hear about that. Never forget the lessons.

  • Sorry to hear it, man.

    My gramps was my fucking idol. His death pretty much turned me into a "fuck the future", hopeless piece of turd.

    It's really tough to see your loved ones go through that, but just know he's in a better place, looking down on his super grandson.

    You have a guardian angel now. So when your doing your final exams and you look up to try and jog your memory, don't be surprised where the answer comes from. Pretty sure my grandpa arranged a fire drill during my chem final I forgot to study for. Everyone got A's.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    When my dad's father died, it made me grow up in a hurry. I guess seeing him in that kind of pain made me realize what a dick I'd been through most of my teenage years. I still am a dick but not to my parents...at least not on purpose anymore.

  • Gone from My Sight
    - Henry Van Dyke

    “I am standing upon the seashore.
    A ship at my side spreads her white
    sails to the morning breeze and starts
    for the blue ocean.

    She is an object of beauty and strength.
    I stand and watch her until at length
    she hangs like a speck of white cloud
    just where the sea and sky come
    to mingle with each other.

    Then, someone at my side says;
    "There, she is gone!"

    "Gone where?"
    Gone from my sight. That is all.
    She is just as large in mast and hull
    and spar as she was when she left my side
    and she is just as able to bear her
    load of living freight to her destined port.
    Her diminished size is in me, not in her.

    And just at the moment when someone
    at my side says, "There, she is gone!"
    There are other eyes watching her coming,
    and other voices ready to take up the glad
    shout;
    "Here she comes!"
    And that is dying.”

    Godspeed Larry, and Erik, Grogan

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Whoa Nelly, Erik has a few years left in him yet!

  • Nobody can say anything that's going to make it any better, Artoo. I was my mother's son and went through that with her death when I was about your age (very early twenties). it's been about thirty years and rarely does a day pass that I don't think about her. When you're that tight with someone, It 's not that it gets better with the passing of time, more like it just gets less worse. The good in me is her doing and for that I'm grateful. Same thing with your grandfather...

  • My heart goes out to you man. It can be no consolation, but there is something to be thankful for that you had him in your life for so long. My father's father died before I was born, and my mother's father when I was five (after hearing my voice pulled him out of a coma a year previously). I envy you your time with Pa.

    A good man gets to live on in the hearts of others, and heaven is only just above the head of the tallest man. He'll not be far away, Erik. R>I.P. eternally Pa Logan.

    The seed in your heart shall blossom .....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVQL_MGv-xY

  • For being in the family, you sure do spell our last name funny lol

    Thank you everyone. I'll be in touch.

  • larry grogan lives
    in every one of your
    posts and articles
    he is you
    always and forever
    full of passion
    and loving always
    the scenery keeps changing
    on the stage of life
    but oneness never does
    what a beautiful difference one life has made
    the beauty of larry g lives on
    and you do him well
    in your portrayal
    beautiful people like you eric
    will only do larry g honor
    as his love for others is portrayed
    through your human experience

    i wish you well
    and hope for nothing but the best
    for you and your family

  • and now for something completely different:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1133013-br-nfl-1000-top-150-wide-receivers?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-bears

    #137 Sazbot
    #135 Hurd in the drugster
    #101 Roy I can't catch even a cold
    #76 Billfold Konx
    #74 Earl the Pearl
    #42 Hes-periment

    our addition:

    #67 Weems
    #22 "The Beast"

    MAJOR Up Grades!!! Hes-periment SLOT!!!

  • http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/pft-live-2/

  • http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8743

    In Emery’s first two and a half months on the job, all of those qualities have been evident. Since March 13, the Bears have acquired eight new players, signed five of their own free agents and agreed to a contract extension with perennial Pro Bowl linebacker Lance Briggs.

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    from the same article:
    "There’s tension, but we would never make those decisions at the last minute. As we developed that draft plan, we’ve made those decisions. On draft day, it’s executing the plan.”

    Go get some E-Train!

  • In reply to lobotobear:

    C'mon lobo....waddya think this is, a football blog or sumpin. Yuk yuk yuk.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    Who put football in my politics?
    Hey, who put politics in my football?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLDF6qZUX0

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    tee hee hee

  • I try to stay out of the political arena as much as possible for this very reason. None of us are ever going to change each other's POV so why bother.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    For me, I know this.

    But I get tired of coming here and reading stuff like "9-11 was an inside job." and the "Fed should be abolished" and "we need the fair tax", and so I get sick of it and bring out the opposing side arguments to provide some perspective. Sac got sick of the attacks and left, now it's just me and MBHP on the left, and so fuck it - I'm game for flame time.

    But I do know, in the end, nobody is getting their mind changed here.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Oh, I was on the left... then I got FILTHY RICH AND SAID FUCK THAT! GIMME MY MONEY.

    Wait, that didn't happen.

    I was on the left... then I moved to Nebraska and was like HUSKERS WEAR RED! I WANNA WEAR RED, TOO!

    Wait, that didn't happen either.

    I was on the left... and then I realized that nothing really matters.

    Wait, that was Queen.

    I was on the left, and then I found out that democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner.

    Wait, that was Franklin (I think).

    I was on the left... and then I married a girl whose Dad is rich, and watches Fox News, and... well, that DID happen. Then I voted for Obama, and realized nothing changes but domestic policies I could give a shit about... We're still at war.

    Really, what happened was Bill Hicks - "No, the puppet on the right shares my beliefs! Oh, the puppet on the left shares my beliefs! Wait, there's ONE GUY HOLDING UP BOTH PUPPETS!"

    I'm now apolitical, and just a hate-bag full of piss and vinegar who'd rather joke about it all and not give a shit anymore.

    The nicotine patch'll do that to ya. Better living through chemistry.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    I'll share a (somewhat) personal example that opened my eyes to the real problem a bit just recently.

    I have a very good friend who, like willie, 'married up'. He pays himself mid 100's and was paying back uncle sam about $3k every year. His wife has whoknowshowmany millions, and she gots a $25k refund this year.

    He has his own gig and struggles every day to pay himself and his employees. The couple files separately for whatever reason... and she's adding tens of thousands onto her huge pile every year, while he has to go on payment plans to pay back unckie sammy.

    As a small biz owner myself, trust me I want nothing more than more tax breaks for me and my biz... but whatever the system does now is not working in both directions. I have no desire to fund some fucking lazy POS crook who wants to game the system for foodstamps and govt cheese, or fund illegal alliens ER visits... but the example above is just as real-world and it’s not right.

    Is there no way to give the small guy trying to make it breaks, fair-tax the poor to help them, foster jobs/biz growth WHILE being fair with taxation of those who don't need to throw another fucking 25k on their pile of millions every year?

    There are a lot of smart people out there, I have to imagine there's a way… maybe something is stopping this from happening. Wonder what that could be?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Canada.

    Blame. Canada.

    Eh?

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxPRHXgYVlk

    Best musical (including "Cannibal: The Musical") in decades.

    NSFW, if you haven't seen "Cannibal"...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ1ZOFNBL68

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    damn, I was hoping for an actual suggested policy solution. Slacker.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Bombing Canada is a policy solution.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    It would certainly end the Keystone Pipeline debate.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    And that bitch, Anne Murray, too!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I'm with you gp, I love the talking football on here. I really enjoy some of the other banter too. But the craziness and some other stuff just is fucked up. Totally agree there is no mind changing possible by writing a few lines on some blog. Let some of this shit go and lets have fun and talk some Bears!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    I totally get it. There are probably more left wingers on here than you think but just don't feel like dealing with all the BS. I don't mind the back and forth but it almost always ends up getting heated. Oh well. Go Bears!

  • In reply to gpldan:

    We can only say so much about Forte, GP. There isn't really a lot to discuss that we haven't hammered to death already. There'll be stuff to talk about after the draft, and then it's a long dry spell dragging out minor details of what happened in training camp.

    Fwiw I don't recall anyone saying 9/11 was an inside job. There were just questions raised about lies that were issued. And nobody who understands what the Fed does could argue that the Act should not be repealed. It is the single largest cause of the problems in the U.S. and by association, the rest of the world. You really shouldn't let other people's opinions get you down man, cos that's all they are. Why do we talk shit about important stuff? "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?"
    That's why.

    I like the idea that off-season threads like this turn into monsters. I doubt there's a football blog like it anywhere on the planet that displays such a variety of opinion on myriad matters. A place where someone can come on and share that they just lost their pops or their grandpops, or whoever, and know that there'll be no mean or nasty asshole comment on YT saying something outrageous in response. It's a family - a dysfunctional one - but it's a family, united not in blood, but where everyone has something in common. The Bears.

    I think that's sweet. Bill Murray sweet.

  • Totally agree with you about the Bears Brotherhood on this blog. I never gave it a thought that someone would be an asshole to Super. That speaks volumes about us. In a good way. Thanks for pointing that out.

  • Artoo,sorry to hear about your loss. Your grandfather sounds like
    he was a hell of a guy. Just knowing you from this blog, I'd say he did a fine job raising his grandson.

  • In reply to #76 Mongo Murph:

    Hear, hear!

  • Thought this was DA BEARS BLOG? ya know, FOOTBALL talk. Im sure there are political/conspiracy/tax blogs elsewhere.

    Artoo, sorry for your loss. Losing my father was the hardest thing I've ever gone through.So I have a feeling of how you are feeling now. My thoughts are with you and yours.

  • In reply to BAM46Blitz:

    That's the name of Jeff's blog for sure, but what goes on in the comments section is entirely up to the commenters I reckon. Something to do with freedom of speech I think, which would also imply freedom not to read I guess.

    But it has been a while .... GO BEARS !!!

    Yep. Lombardi time.

  • My daughter's customer Bears jersey just got here today. I cannot WAIT until she gets home.
    Awesome!
    Of course, the one I got for my nephew is #30.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    of fucking course!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    btw, had my best game ever last night.

    27-7-15

    Was getting tired at the end and lost a couple face to face surprise 1:1s that I should have won (how in the world does a haji sent right into the middle of two guys up against a concrete wall ((in the dome map)) not kill either of them!?!?). Was trying my best to breach 30, but couldn't get it done. was pissed.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Nice! 30 is tough.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Oh, I forgot to share the news with the Bears cronies -

    The wife and I have a little Bear/Bull on the way in about 6 more months (jah/jesus/allah/buddah willing)

    We ordered his/her (PLEASE BE HIS) first outfit during the Bears blowout special...

    BEARS ONESY (how the hell do you spell onesey? 1Z? one-zee?)

    Thanks MBHAP for the JERSEYS12 code... It was like 20 bucks.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Congratulations, Willie!
    Even if it's a girl, she can always be a place kicker. That's my plan, anyway.
    That code was awesome - saved me $80.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    My concern is every piece-of-shit dude (like myself) with... what does he say in the Godfather?

    "Guinea charm and olive oil voice"

    Yeah, her social life after age 12 would be non-existent.

    I don't know how you guys do it. If I have a daughter, she better be a lesbian.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    i know man, i don't want to deal with that shit.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    I expect mine to kick any guy in the balls that tries any funny stuff. And she's no shrinking violet anyway. She's 3 going on 13 with the verbal sparring.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Oops, left out Vishnu, Krishna, and whatever kooky scifi named deity the old Tom Cruise people believe in... Oh, and flying spaghetti monster (of course).

    Who am I forgetting?

    She's half Japanese... who ruled over the Taoists?

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    half japanese chicks can be smoking hot. Uhhhh... huh huh... yeah... yeah... TP for my bunghole!

    Congrats maings! Awesome. Stop smoking. Kissing a dad without a jaw bone would suck. Think about it.

    Btw, I thought the exact way before I had my little girl... now I might just trade my son for her if I had to. Ok, just kidding, but it is AWESOME having a daughter. Changed my life... seriously. That coming from a guy who’s 5th generation boys only on my dad’s side… and in the sonogram, when told she was a girl, I said to the technician... “no, that can't be right... there's a penis in there somewhere, keep looking please… that’s prooooobably not the umbilical cord like you said. Btw, how long have you been doing this lady?"

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Same here - initially bummed out and now I wish I had two or three of them. Well, I wish I had a nanny first, then another two or three of them. This one is a whirling dervish. One more year until soccer league.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Yeah, I will be happy regardless. I have two nieces, ages like 2 and 5, that are the cutest things ever.

    I figure if I don't have a football player, I can always get my daughter to tear up the WNBA.

    In the end, I just want healthy.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    congrats mang, my 2yr old girl is my favorite person on the planet. My little guy is 4 months old so now his stature is climbing in the polls as well since he can now smile and laugh at me.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    G'luck Willie. They may be born into the Bush era, and one day ask you "Hey dad, who was Matt Forty? Was that his number?"

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Kinda late to the party but congratulations from me as well! I don't have kids myself, having considered parenthood just a bit longer than the priesthood (a little under two minutes) . When you're as narcissistic and self absorbed as I am, children aren't generaly a good idea. However, all my siblings have kids (five sisters, two brothers) so I've got fourteen nieces and nephews and amazingly, they all seem to be turning out great. Blessings to you and your expanding family....

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Congrats about the bambino on the way. Very cool.

  • Congrats Willie. I hope your son has your top end speed and silky smooth dancing abilities!

    Artoo, sorry to hear about your grandfather. I'm sure he'll be happier on his home planet of Krypton.

  • Thanks, buddy.

    How'd you know about the silky smooth dancing? I thought I made that YouTube video private!

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Congratulations, Willie. None yet myself(kids) but my older brother has daughters of 4 and 2, I love them alot, both are destined to be knockouts, he's totally screwed. I plan to help him fight off the little punks in about ten years.
    I'm in your boat cuz my bro is done, no boy from my end means all girls, which would be fine but that would leave all the looking out to me and my bro. We'll be old men in not too long, one boy would be good.
    Here's to your future baby's health, that of your wife, and the mental health of yourself over the next year.

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    Thank you, good sir!

    I'm the last male from my family. Uncle had 3 girls, and Aunt had 2. I'm an only child (could ya tell?). So, as bad as I want no more than 2 kids, if it goes girl, girl... I may have to shoot for 3.

    For some egotistical reason I feel like the last name needs a mail heir to the throne.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Agreed on the need to have someone to carry the last name, as egotistical as it seems, my branch of the family name dies with me if my wife doesn't produce any dudes.

  • R2 -

    I dunno that this story is going to help much. But it does illustrate a point.

    A few years out of college, my grandmother and I buried my mom. My mom had to join my grandmother in her old folks home because my mom got Alzheimer's. My grandmother, who was sharp as a tack and twice as nasty in an argument as I am (if you can picture that) until the day she died, watched her only daughter wither and dry up and blow away, to where I would visit her and she would be spoon feeding my mother. All she would say, feisty old Irish broad that she was, was "it's not supposed to be this way."

    So... all I can say is this. If Ouija boards actually worked and we could call Larry Grogan up on the horn and ask him what HE thought, he might say "this is the way it's supposed to go." (I am assuming that all his kids are still alive mind you.)

    Just something to think about. I'm sure he was proud of you.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    The epitaph on Spike Milligan's gravestone reads ... "I told you I was sick."

  • I just want everyone to note that this time last year we didn't even know if there would be any FB in '11, and it was a dark time.

    I told myself last year that a year from then I'd bring that up to brighten the mood around here during the desert we all know as offseason.

    I didn't know that we'd have a new GM who would come in start kicking ass and I definately didn't know we'd have snagged Marshall. So far I've never been more excited for a Bears Season.

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    Good point - only 13 days until the draft!!!

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    We have Brandon muffuckin Marshall.

    Ah, that feels so good to type.

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    Congrats Willie and good luck! hahahaha....

    as all you sheite's know I HAVE 13 YEAR OLD~!!!!!!!! crickey...... mood swings, hormones flying
    DAMN I'M TO OLD FOR THIS!!! lol

    The real pisser is she's blond hair, blue eyes..damn it!!#$!#$#!$#!$!!!!!!
    Why the hell did I have to marry a czech/polish girl? I really thought about a convent..yeah well that won't work.

    Let's put it this way as the boys get closer I show them this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfC0Rr3mhZU

    and then explain I'm pycho DAD!!!:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GFq6usPg6U

    Good Luck all you Dad's out there!!! lol

  • In reply to Who is Willie Gault:

    I can't wait for Joniak:
    "After Cutler's 20 yard completion to Marshall, that's Bush up the middle for a gain of 11 and the Bears are rolling. Green Bay have no answer to Mike Tice's offense here at Lambeau field today. Carimi's looking immovable in there at left tackle, as is Louis back at right. I-formation, Kellen Davis in motion, the snap Cutler hands it off to ... no ... he sprints right and Devin Hester has beaten his man if Cutler has the arm ....wide open Devin Hester touchdown!"

    All. Season. Long.

    Cutler might get pissy when we rest him for the last three games though.

  • Carmini at LT, that's how I knew it was fantasy.

  • In reply to ben in norcal:

    Facebook?

    Tee-hee!

  • Your Boy Roy's new podcast is up,as his anlysis of the LT situation.

    http://www.chicagofootballtalk.com/blog/deciphering-chris-williams-projected-move-to-left-tackle#comment-554

    He went back and analysed Edwins games versus Chris' games last year and Edwin was better - didn't get knocked over a lot like Chris. He also reckons this Steinbach dude would be an instant starter at guard if we signed him, but Herrera would likely be a backup signing.

    In the podcast he mentions a quote from Cutler re the draft. Sounds like they don't want too much competition in the receivers room cos it causes a few problems. So that's a no no for Michael Floyd fans, or any WR in the first round. He expects CW to lose the LT battle with JW, and as CW's ass is half-way out the door with his contract up next year, they just want Edwin to start at LG.

    And Urlacher won't be working out, boy's still hurtin. Get well soon Lac.

  • Thanks for the update Irish. I've had the feeling Floyd's been off the Bears radar ever since they traded for Marshall. It's beginning to look more and more like we go after a defensive player in the first round or two. I do look to see the Bears draft a WR in the 3rd or 4th round if the value is there though.

  • I certainly hope so Trac, and with Brian still ailing, I hope there's a mike drafted along with a top pass rusher.

    The blog broke at 600 comments.

    Shady - the Forte screen video does of course show that Matt knows how to run a screen, and he does kind of glance off a guy, but I meant that Bush can physically break through guys and run them over, that's all. He gives us a dimension that Matt doesn't - and hopefully we can combine those skills with both players on the roster.

    DC's mustache - quite possibly Garza was our best lineman last year as you suggested - but that doesn't say a lot for our line - one of the very worst in the league - and it that doesn't change the fact that he was rated the worst center by the one complete league ratings I could find. And try posting without calling someone a name. It's nice to be nice.

  • And I'm really not down on Matt, I just think we did a great thing in signing Bush. We're better for having both. His agent is being a dick though, and he'll be missing out on the stuff that Bates will be installing in the pass game shortly.

  • Forte and Bush are two different tools that can be used, and when Bush is in, Cutty will have a nice big body in front of him to help block, or catch the dump-off. It's all good.

    Defense in the draft.

  • And OL.

  • Just curious - do you actually beleieve half the shit you post here, or are you just looking for a reaction?

  • In reply to Shady:

    If people weren't looking for reactions there would be no need for reply buttons. Aren't reactions a normal part of discourse?

    To the first question, yes, twice that amount of shit in fact. Hope that helps.

  • A man who is a dick, a man who looks like a dick, and a guy who sucks dick for a living discuss who is going to have a huge year at QB:

    Kiper goes with the Lesbian.
    Penishead? Believe it or not, he goes with Cutty

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7783962

  • In reply to gpldan:

    can't believe he went with Cutler. I thought he would take the stubborn route like Peter King and Don Banks. I have to agree that, with more common sense type dropbacks, moving the pocket, Brandon Marshall and KD/Bennett being freed up as a result,Cutler will be in the top 8 QB's this year.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    Easily, if not top five (slurp!). I still can't believe some dick had Eli at #1. Swap O-lines and receivers last year and that's Cutty. Hopefully he stays safe due to the things you mentioned.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    And, um, Matt Forte out of the backfield.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    exactly

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    .... and up the middle for Bush ... Cutler finds Bush on the sideline .. and other sexual innuendos. I can sense some classics in store from the commentators this season..

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Holy Crap! After they listed all the other guys it was shocking to hear Dilfer say Cutler. Had to laugh when Helmet Head talked about Stafford's toughness. Really?

    If we have better luck with injuries and the OL comes around (2 big ifs), I think Cutler will blow up this year. Can't wait to find out!

  • Hey Shady: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk

    Deeeeeum. It's even crazier in real life maings. Sheeeeit.

    I loved that show... have no idea why they took it off the air.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    had to bow out last night, crying babies and dirty looks from wife.

  • In reply to Waffle 2.0:

    understood maings.

    Well, Doc, rabbit and I do.. that selfish, single fuck with no responsibilities but work and sleighing new strange, with his charmed little life Shady doesn't get shit about crying babies and bitchy wives.

    ....whoops. I, uhhhh... think that may have been a bit of projection. Sorry shady my man.

    By za vey… rank rank rank…. On now.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Once you hear the IMS go off, it's already too late.

  • In reply to Shady:

    it's true

  • Just a followup on a previous post. The NFL site's draft do-over articles re-did the last 5 drafts. Overall it's a nothing series of columns by 5 different authors. The noteworthy part of it is at the end of each article. Under wasted drafts they pick 1 team (one year there is a tie, which includes the Bears). The Bears are listed 3 times out of 5. Not exactly a stretch to most of us on here.

  • Ugh - 72 more hours until the schedule comes out.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    At least we know we've got the Lions, Vikings and Packers twice. So that's good for 6-0. It'll be like the Eighties again, just without the hair and the legwarmers.

  • Canada, going to my 9th Grace Potter show in two weeks at a great, smaller venue in Madison. Last time she played my two requests from before the show. No requests this time, I want to hear some of their new stuff. I'm always stoked for the band's live performances. Here's a good acoustic cover.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t15KFcdKzWI&feature=related

  • In reply to TheFifth:

    i am off to the wanee
    without my fifth
    and my fith
    will surely
    be missed

  • In reply to huntinbare:

    Just checked the lineup Huntin. WHOA! I'd love to see most of the bands but esp. Roy Rogers, Hot Tuna, Buddy Guy, Tedeschi/Trucks, Govt Mule, Ivan Neville's Dumpstafunk and Big Sam's Funky Nation. Have a great trip and be sure to let us know the highlights!

  • In reply to huntinbare:

    Some of my friends are there. I really wish I could go, but it's one of my busiest times of year. The line up is fantastic this year.

  • In reply to TheFifth:

    NICE! I don't think she's ever played around here. I would definitely make a point to see her if she did. Too bad this site sucks wang. I'd ask ya to post some pics (Esp Grace and the Bass Player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

    I went to a College show a couple of weeks ago. My friends from Vancouver were on the bill. The headliners were Murder by Death. A band out of Bloomington, Indiana. Very interesting band. I thought they might be Death Metal but was pleasantly surprised. The sound man had the drums way too loud (small venue, no need to mic the drums) but they had a very cool sound.

    Have fun in Madison. Wish I was going with ya!

  • fb_avatar

    Looking at different mock drafts there are a lot of guys that predict (better say guess) that Luke Kuechly ends up at the end of the first round. I saw him getting way down to the Giants.
    I find it hard to believe, but if he is not drafted before the Bears pick what do you think they should do? Lets say DeCastro, Floyd, Barron, Kirkpatrick, Gillmore are still on the board.
    Should the Bears pick Kuechly and play him on the strong side while grooming him in Urlacher's spot ? Or should they pick another player in a spot that's a bigger need?
    I think that this guy has to be the number one player on the Bears draft board in general. What do you guys think ?

    Mihai (Romania)

  • In reply to Barb Mar:

    I really doubt that Floyd will be on the board when we pick. I think Kuechly would probably be the safest pick of the bunch. I'm Ok with any of them as long as they don't suck.

  • In reply to Barb Mar:

    I don't know how Kuechly drops to 19, he's draft gold. No way we could pass on him. Brian's our biggest player on defense, currently nursing a knee injury, 34 years old, and we have nobody to replace. Do we go 7-3 last year without him? He's an autopick early christmas present if he's there.

    Can't see them drafting a guard, corner or receiver in the first. Barron is interesting, but Kuechly would be a steal.

  • The NFL might make helmet to helmet contact illegal.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/14/jahvid-best-still-hasnt-been-fully-cleared/

    Some folks have suggested going back to leather helmets to eliminate concussions but what I think what is more likely to happen over the next several seasons is that the rules committee will try to remove any contact that was not likely to have taken place back in the day when leather helmets and smaller pads were worn. I read somewhere the other day the owners are seriously looking at removing the Kick Off entirely from the playbook. Mark my words gents, this is going to happen cause the bean counters are going to try and do everything in their power to minimize future lawsuits. When this does happen, look for a resurgence of the running back position in the draft. Sorry Matt, this probably won't happen during your career.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    That's what Pat Kirwan alluded to on his Tweeter feed yesterday. He thinks they're going to eliminate all kickoffs except for the start of both halves (and OT) in the next few years and then remove it altogether.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    I wonder what would happen if you took the helmet as it existed now, and put pads on the outside of the shell. It would look stupid, but I wonder if it would help.

  • In reply to Thug GPL:

    I'm posting while wearing my Thuggie this morning:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/the-thuggie-sets-a-new-low-for-fashion

  • In reply to Thug GPL:

    I don't know Thug, nothing can stop the brain slamming against the skull due to inertia. You'd need those star trek inertial dampers, Captain.

    Can we interest you in a surname perhaps ...? Thug Breakpants. Thug Slamhatch. Thug Breakslam. Thug Hatchpants.

  • Thuggie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I likery.

  • In reply to Thug GPL:

    Hey Gp, we could call them thuggies. Hmm.......The marketing aspect of this product could be very intriguing indeed.

    Don't forget to put your thuggies on. Blaaaaaaaaah!!!!!

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    How about flag football played at half speed? That would be much safer. We could sign Greg Olsen back for like a seventh rounder.

    Wait .... do I really believe this shit?

  • Read the story about Erik Kramer's son. Can't help but feel bad for Erik.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0415-erik-kramer--20120413,0,5990140.story

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Thousands and thousands of parents, friends and relatives go through these kind of real life horror stories Canada. That's why my faith is so real to me because I have come across so many people that it has pulled out of these kinda situations and given them new life. Unfortunately not everyone is able to stop in time and my heart goes out to Mr. Kramer. Parenting can be a very sad experience and nobody EVER wants to bury their children.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    I'm not religous but 2 of my sisters are. If it works for somebody that's great. I just don't like it when people try to pound you over the head with it. 12 years of Catholic schools in the '50's and '60's will do that to you. Not saying you do.

    Yeah, my folks had to bury 2 sons. I had to break the news to them about the second son. Hardest thing I ever had to do. Calling my sisters when our mother passed wasn't much fun either. Miss them all but very thankful to have a great family.

    Hope Emery knocks it out of the park!

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    Wow Canada, I don't know how I could have handled that. Thanks for sharing, and damn glad to know you my friend.

  • In reply to CanadaBear:

    "Then I learned he was doing heroin. ... It's not a subject that you want to talk about. I did bring it up once, but we didn't get very far with it."

    I found that absolutely astounding. You realise your kid is on heroin ... and you "...bring it up once".

    Jesus. Did he text him about it? Did he poke him on facebook and then write on his wall? Did he broach the subject after Christmas dinner? Sorry, that's negligence in the extreme. If my old man thought I was doing heroin as kid I'd still be picking up my teeth.

  • I'm sure Erik Kramer is tormented over what he coulda shoulda done Irish. That's normally how those kinda things play out.

  • Not enough in that article for me to judge the guy Irish. I know that some of these kids push back pretty hard. No telling what the full context of what happened was.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    That's true. Maybe his kid went ballistic on him when he mentioned it and they didn't speak for a while ... and then he's dead. It just sounded weird. The friend has a lot to answer for though, kid probably just needed a shot of adrenalin and he'd be alive today.

  • Bingo Irish.

  • Two thingare likely to happen with regard to helmets/CTE.
    Helmets will get better. They already have. I bought my son a Xenith last fall. While the helmet cannot prevent concussions or even subconcussive damage, it definitely helps and will only get better. Secondly, contracts will likely begin to include hild harmless agreements between the player, the league, and the team. This game only remains popular in some semblance of its current level of intensity. I work in construction and my wife works in the nuclear industry. Both potentially dangerous workplaces but that's life. I don't see a forthcoming mass exodus of NFL players even now with what is currently known. None of these guys has an alternative plan in mind to create generational wealth. So they play. At the end of the day, that's not going to change.

  • In reply to Johnnywad:

    Maybe they could go to carousel when they hit 30. I'm sure we have the tech for it. It could be the halftime show.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSUAAKFLoL0

  • In reply to GP (Hugs not Thugs):

    How bout, "Thugs without jugs"?

  • On a lighter note, I betcha Bubba misses the good ole days. He he.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/ho_lombia_twist_4oMCMx8CRfOyJhODIuCcfM

  • In between the elevator music and the draft, I've been watching all the old Columbo shows on Netflx. I gotta tell you, Peter Falk was amazing. I still say that was one of the best TV series ever.

  • In reply to TracDaddy:

    My next older brother loved that show too. I've never checked into it; maybe I'll remember to check it out someday.

  • In reply to SC Dave:

    Just caught him doing the narration thing on "Princess Bride" about an hour ago.
    You know what show I loved as a kid? Quincy.

  • In reply to MikeBrownhadaPosse:

    Funny you should say that, so did I. I tried watching a few of them last week but just couldn't do it. Way too melodramatic for me. It's funny how perspectives change over time.

  • Wow, I go away for a couple of days and we're almost at 660 comments? Come on guys, let's get to 1000...

    I think we should trade Hester to the Redskins (they took Sanders once to be a PR). We can get first rounders in 2019 and 2020... think of the possibilities based on last years all-nation peewee championships. Thoughts?

  • In reply to NewBearInTown:

    I'm thinking not quite controversial enough to get those last 339 posts to this thread.

  • Had to watch that video again. Right on, Jeff. Keep the GOAT

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