Super Bowl Gameday Thread

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Enjoy the last day of another crappy football season.

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  • Souper bowl. Just can't get into this years game for some reason. I wonder why?

  • Well lets just hope its a good football game,something as Bears fans we aint seen too much of the past couple years.
    Time to eat drink and be merry. Then we can get back to pissing and moaning about how we are gonna suck next year.

  • Ha. Well done. Go Saints!

  • Watching on the four letter word network..Only reason is to se Da. Coach and ask my seven year old "who dat" and his response is that Da Coach' Dad. LOVE THAT he knows who Ditka is..

    Then watching the special about Shaun Payton and how he took $250,000.00 of his own money to get George Williams to be the DC..It's called Investment! You think any one on our team would do that HELL NO!!! this is all about taking care of yourself and not for the team this coaching staff is all about the circle jerk.

  • In reply to nicholsra:

    Payton brings someone on for a one and done, pays him a quarter mil. and he's a hero because it worked out. Payton was trying to save his ass and he personally paid for a coach that he truly believed in. You say no coach for the Bears would do that? I say you are blind. Lovie has done exactly that this offseason. He's surrounded himself with people that he belives in. Now I would argue that Payton was taking care of himself in the same manner that Lovie is forced to do this year. Here's another idea. Let 2010 play out before you cruxify him. We could just as easily be hearing the same story about Lovie Smith and his staff, this time next year. The chance for a quick turnaround is with Lovie, it's that simple.

    All it's gonna take is health and a couple of additions on D. Of which will happen for two reasons. First off, the front office is desperate for success. Secondly, because the matriarch didn't have to sign off 30 million dollars on a completely new front office and staff. Personally, I would rather money be spent on players than big name coaches. Isn't that exactly what the Saints went through?

    Little fact for you, ZERO coaches have won Super Bowls with two different frachises. If seeing a coach that has had success with a different team gets you off then keep rooting for the Bears to suck.

  • In reply to bears5003:

    Hate to say it friend, but you're a little delusional.

    Payton has proven to be a pretty decent coach, Smith has done quite the opposite over the same period. So comparing the two just because they bring people in they believe in isn't a rational argument. The mere fact that payton did bring in someone who did do a good job, and Smith had to settle for our Dline coach because no one else would take the job speaks volumes. AND if we do pull out a miracle and are good next year, it won

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    I disagree. Reality is that Payton had to bring in someone that he trusted on the defensive side of the ball to create a dramatic change for the better, otherwise he'd have been gone. The Saints were last in South a year ago, they were not good. Reality is that Lovie is was forced to do the same this off season and reacted in kind. He hired the polar opposite of Turner at OC in Martz. Not because it was his only choice but because he trusts Martz to put points on the board and compliments HIS defense. Much like Greg Williams D compliments Payton's offense.
    Fact is that Martz was the most accomplished OC on the market just a Williams was as a DC a year ago.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Tom Selleck? Really, gp? Thanks, I had not heard that. I think that IS a decent choice.

    Of course, nobody brings the kind of "gravitas" to NFL films like Harry Kalas' predecessor, John Facenda did. I mean no disrespect to Harry who did quality work for NFL Fuilms and the Phillies.

    BTW, I am a big Tom Selleck fan because he is a member of a persecuted minority: Hollywood Conservatives.

    Loved the way he handled SuperBitch, Rosie O'Donnell, when she tried to ambush him about the NRA ties on her talk show years ago which was doubly COMICAL because at the same time she was going after him about guns, she was shilling for K-Mart, the largest retailer of firearms in the U.S. LOL, Rosie, you ignorant slut.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    No matter how lame Selleck has become... he will always be Magnum P.I. to me. My favorite TV show of all time. Way to go magnum!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Roger Goodell is going to ruin the god damn National Football League. Look at this! He is talking about a rule banning the three-point stance for the sake of reducing concussions. Bah!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/three-point-stance-could-get-the-boot/

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Wear these:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FZPMYc0uddk/SyPm8lyRczI/AAAAAAAAAo8/j6BOOa_3fno/s400/westbrookhelmet.jpg

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Pre-kick-off pick from Da Hoosierdaddy Mini-Mannings 84 da Aints 4

  • In reply to Hoosierdaddy:

    I remember someone mentioning smack talk 15 mins into a game. Sounds pretty froggy Hoosier.

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Ghost, it's better that the actual Football league starts looking at options instead of the fucking government doing it. they fuck up everything they touch and have already pretty much threatened the NFL to change.

  • In reply to hollywood1:

    True...but stuff like this makes me glad I'll be dead sooner rather than later! Christ, when I was growing up nobody even had facemasks and now these prima donnas are worried about getting headaches. I'm not downplaying major concussions like Troy Aikmen and notably Kurt Warner this season, but how often does it really affect a player in such a way as to DRAMATICALLY change the way the game is played.

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    agreed

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Well the WHO sounded pretty good, would much rather have seen Anne Hathaway or Megan Fox and pray for a wardrobe malfunction! YES!!!!!!

  • In reply to bears5003:

    Waited till after the Win! to get on so I am playing catch up so lets talk DTB...

    DTB...FUCK!
    One and Done REALLY your throwing down with that. Let's talk about 'DEAD MAN WALKING" Lovie. If it were any other franchise HIS ASS would of been DONE even with the 11 Mil.. at the end of this if not last season! That plays out as a business move chalk that to McCheapsky..

    Blind..I got 20/20 and so does every other shit that watches the way this ASSHAT runs this team. I see perfectly! really would a whole shit of load of people create WWW.FIRE LOVIE.COM so up if he was doing great. Let's talk about the Billboard,? I don't think I am alone in this.

    Surrounded Himself.. Yeah with a Ideology that has proven to be not "WHO DAT" but COVER WHO?! You need to have the players that work in that system and obviously by our record that is not the case..Is IT? Proof is in the pudding my friend! And as for surrounded lets really get a close eye on his circle jerk of friends. Lets' look at the dance we swallowed at the end of the season. I won't quote it but I think it goes like this..We will have many clamoring to get to Halas Hall to be on our coaching staff. 2 tier, 3 tier shit no we go after Martz who was last choice, and we take Rod and prop his ass up. This is the circle of friends to help..WOW!

    As for the season yes. let's just wait and see.. But if we have the same factors that we had last year I find it hard to beleive that we will escape anything different than last years results.

    As for pay for our coaches.. I beleive LDL is being payed pretty well ..do you not agree.

    As for the Fact ..I know about the Zero my friend I just am looking for a coach that may come up with a little more than COver who and Bubble to you!

    As for the rooting for the Bears to suck well you haven't read much of what I have said in the previous threads.

    BEAR DOWN!~

  • In reply to bears5003:

    Payton took a pay cut from his own salary to get his guy. Not the same at all. I don't hear Lovie saying dock me a quarter mill to get Marinelli in here.

  • In reply to bears5003:

    Well I'll be damned. Guess that's why they play the game.

  • In reply to nicholsra:

    Want the Saints to take it: We gave it to Indianapolis in 2006, so they had their easy one. Go Saints...NFC..gotta go get the plow hooked up for Mon nites snow event.

  • In reply to RogerMinton:

    I get the feel this years SB is going to be a sleeper. Not sure which way yet.

  • In reply to RogerMinton:

    I'm going with the Saints. Peyton, Eli had their turn, now its the old mans.

  • In reply to RogerMinton:

    BEAR DOWN> Would it not be sweet if some Saint took the opening kickoff to the house!!??

    PM can E.A.D. Cue up that pillah!!!

  • In reply to RogerMinton:

    I gotta root for the Saints. I think Reggie Bush is annoying as f-ck, but not as much as when Manning starts doing his petulant schoolboy act after a couple of incompletions.
    And the City of New Orleans deserves a SB win, even more than Cleveland.

  • In reply to RogerMinton:

    Gotta go with the Colts. The refs won't let NO rough up/cheap shot Manning. That hit on Warner, on the pick, was legal but totally cheap. The hits on Favre, on the handoff on the reverse and the high/low were cheap/illegal. Since I hate Favre and the BiQueens, it didn't bother me but ... No way McCray gets away with that stuff today. If he does get in a cheapie, he'll get an early shower.

    The Colts have too much O and an under rated D. It will be the Colts going away. If NO wins I'll be happy for them because of the city and fans but I'll also be shocked.

    Go Bears!

  • By the way...GO SAINTS!! will always be an NFC guy...except if it were the Queens..."F" the queens

  • The question of the moment:

    Can / will this be an entertaining Super Bowl?

    I previously made a case for "no" based on the Colts confusing the Saints' D, getting ahead and forcing the Saints into mistakes of desperation.

    Here's my case for "Yes":

    14-0 or not, The Colts have not spent the season blowing people off the field. They played, and won, a LOT of close games. Their defense has been able to shut down offenses that heavily relied on 1 dimension or the other but struggled when it came to balanced offenses.

    The Saints defense was 25th in the league overall this season.
    Hell, THAT's down near the BEARS' level of "achievement". However,that ranking MAY be a bit deceiving since they played a good chunk of games minus BOTH starting corners and their backups to the point that they eventually were forced to grab Mike MacGregor AND Chris McAllister off the SCRAP HEAP just to be able to field a defensive backfield. They also missed their best D-lineman, Sedrick Ellis, down the stretch.

    So, things would seem to hinge on the Saints offense being able to stay on the field and punch it into the endzone (the led-by-a-rookie-QB Jets had chances to have more than 20 points in their first half against the Colts) and their defensive backfield, which would seem to rate an edge over Indy's anyway, being able to make a big play or 2. Frankly, I don't see the Saints being able to generate the same kind of "remember me" pressure that they brought to Narcissus and you can bet the Zebras will have been told to protect Manning.

    I believe the Colts will be minus a starting corner and if I were Sean Peyton would be inclined to direct every running directly at Mr. Freeny and his impaired ankle. Yeah, guys have played on broken legs and such but a torn ligament in your ankle sounds BAAAD. They can shoot Freeny up for the pain, but ligaments have an important FUNCTION down there and I don't see how a torn one isn't a major detriment especially to a guy known for speed and quickness.

    Anyway, that's my case (and hopes) for a Super Bowl worth watching.

    PS:

    Erstwhile indy Head Coach, Tony Dungy, is on record as saying he doesn't think the game will be close and that there is "no way" the Saints will win.

    4-letter pundits were discounting that quote's value as "bulletin board" material but being less than a year removed as leader of the Colts, I am betting the Saints will perceive that as "fightin' words", just insulting as if they came directly from the Colts and WILL use it as a motivator.

    Frankly, if I were Jim Caldwell I'd be thinking,
    "Tony, please shut-the-hell-up!"

    Especially since I BELIEVE that a couple of weeks ago Mr. Dungy also said that there was "No way" the Jets could go into San Diego and beat the Chargers.

    BZZZT!! Wrong, but thank you for playing, Tony.

    So, while Tony Dungy may have been an excellent football coach,
    Nostradamus he is not.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Excellent analysis Al.

    Here's the crux of why I think this SB is over by halftime:

    Saints 45 - Cards 14. The Cards were overwhelmed by the smashmouth to Warner - knocking him down and out - and the home crowd. Manning watched this game closely. He then put the tape of the Vikings game on and saw all the late hitting on Farve. He knows the SB refs won't let them hit him late. The Vikes scored and scored on a NO defense that couldn't stop them as much as force turnovers at key moments from Berrian and AP.

    The only way this stays close is if Addai or Clark cough up the ball early, and the Saints jump out quick. And by jump up, it will take 17 points to get the Colts to alter the playbook and then they can pin their ears back and rush Manning and not fear the screen so much. But even in that, highly unlikely scenario, Manning could probably bring em back.

    It would take Manning injured to change this game. I just don't see it.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Here's one Al will appreciate.

    It appears for the first time in my life, Mr. Harry Kalas is too old/sick to continue to narrate NFL films.

    His replacement is Tom Selleck. A good choice, Selleck however just doesn't impart the gravitas of an epic battle that defined Sabol's work.

  • Good call. I second the motion.

  • BAAAAHAHAhahahaha.... cock-shaped Pillah!

  • BRING IN THE COCK-SHAPED PILLAH!

  • SD,

    Was a Will Farrell skit on SNL making fun of GWB (hilarious): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOUuKQlGdEs

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategery

    I

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Interviewing and being offered the job are two completely different things. I recall 4 interviews with guys that you never even heard of prior to being announced on the Sun-Times site. You state facts as if Martz was the only one that wanted the job. "Really, Are these facts... you know these as actual facts?"
    If you want facts, point to the marked improvement after each job he took, with DET and with SF. The same will happen in '10. And once again, I'm not talking about management or Marinelli. I am talking about Lovie and Martz. Trying to keep it simple for you but you keep confusing the argument here.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Ya hit the nail on the head in all 10 of your posts, Albert!

    What I took away from the game was the greatest play-calling and coaching I have seen in a Super Bowl in a long long time. The fact of the matter was, Sean Payton had his team completely prepared and therefore 100% confident in their ability to defeat the heavily favored Colts.

    When...WHEN was the last time any Bear exuded that much REAL confidence? And I mean the confidence on display at Halas Hall is of the "Rex is our quarterback" genre. Expertise play-calling and spot-on play on both sides of the ball won that game. That was a decisive Saints victory.

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    I agree! Add to that the fact that the Saints players just made more plays, and the conclusion was foregone.

    Great job by the Saints *organization* in getting their first SB win.

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Well done Saints!! Congrats!

    So gay...
    http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1020/gayqv.jpg

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    How do you like the cover 2 now Lovie?

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Ghost..Lovie couldn't find his way to his car after the game if he didn't look up a the Jumbotron for answer's

  • In reply to TheGhostofHalas:

    Trac..It's our scheme and now that we have God in Rod..

    It will succeed.. shit these fools will not change. They will go into the year with the same scheme from last year and "pretty well set" attitude gets us the "pretty well done" for our season. I would never see Lovie be that inovative with his arrogance. "STAY THE COURSE" wow

    It was great to see a coach create during a game.

  • They were better than the Stones...Time for some of these guys to retire! Having to listen to the game on the radio!

  • I saw some sad/sick shit before this week.

    I guess Pete Townsend got caught looking at kiddie porn a while back (sick fuck), so he's now a registered sex offender. Before the super bowl they sent out a bunch of flyers to families in the surrounding areas. I looked it up and here it is: http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/01/28/who-pete-townshend-super-bowl-sex-offender/

    WTF is wrong with people?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    He sent his PC in to be fixed and there was kiddie porn all over the hard drive !

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Good Super Bowl! Better than last year.

    The vengeful side of me is glad Colts fans know what it feels like to lose a Super Bowl.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    So, Tony "I am NOT Nostradamus" Dungy, how do you like your crow done? LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH LMAO!!!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Great win saints!!!

    Awesome! Great win, they really deserve it. And DT, sean payton is in another coaching universe than lovie. Do you think lovie would have called that on-sides or would have gone for it on 4th?

    No, lovie would have tried a fake field goal from the 5, missed it, called a time out and then would have thrown the challenge flag during the timeout. He

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    All hail, Sean Peyton. That on-side kick call took balls the size of GRAPEFRUITS!

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Al..You think we of seen anything like that style of game with Lovie...No!!! It's great to see a coach have faith in his perosnal. AND understand them.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C! N-F-C!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Here are Mr. Dungy's EXACT quotes:

    "I don't see how it's going to be close. The Colts aren't going to turn it over seven times." STEEERIKE 1.

    "Bill Rhoden, the writer, was saying he was waiting for him to have one of those special moments to put in that greatness category. I said if it ends up being like it was against the Bears (Super Bowl XLI_) when the Colts are two scores up and he's just leading the last drive killing the clock, you won't say that was a great moment, but I think that is how the game is going to turn out,". -STEEERIKE 2.

    "I think the Colts are going to put up a lot of points. I think it's going to be in the high 30's, something like 34 to 21, something like that," said Dungy. STEEERIKE 3.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Also the only one that went with the Saints on CBS was COHWER!!! He mentioned the intangibles... Interesting when you have a guy who hasn't coach in a couple of years still fell that! and then back to our lives with LDL. crap

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Hahahaha... glad you're having fun tonight Al. I think Dungy is a great man, but he's kind of a douche on TV.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    You called it Al. Nice job. I never saw Manning turn that shade of red after he threw that pic to Porter. I think Wayne just quit on him. It was weird to watch, the unflappable team get flustered. Shades of Joe Namath and the unbeatable Colts.

    What's your prediction for Obama vs. Palin in 2012?

  • In reply to gpldan:

    Oh Jebus... I usually won't take the bait, but for the sake of this great country I would hope my left testicle could beat that moron hockey idiot in a race. She is so shockingly frightening.

  • In reply to gpldan:

    i wonder if colts fans will bash Peyton Manning for that interception in the 4th quarter for a touchdown? oh, wait only the most classless fans in sports, the green bay packers fans, bash their legends

  • In reply to gpldan:

    1. The fall of the Berlin Wall.

    2. The collapse of the Soviet Union.

    3. Electing a U.S. President with the middle name of "Hussein".

    4. A Republican winning the "Kennedy" U.S. Senate seat.

    5. The New orleans Saints winning the Super Bowl.

    ALL things that I never thought I would see in my lifetime.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Al. LOL..nice

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Well...here we go a new season boys and girls.... With the combine a couple of weeks away what's our statis? Do we even dare to dream that we can see something that may add to our team in with new blood? or

    Do we go after the FA's? I know we are short on both our lines which... Al...as you mentioned

    1. Martz had said is an important factor for success in the offense.. I hope he can aplly pressure to JA to move on this.

    2. If we stick to the Cover Who? we need speed..problem is with the loss of Adam Gaines (I thought with a little Beef on the boy he could of been something). We are need Butter to improve to himself and then see developement of the others.
    2A. Of DB's need help FS-someone with ballhawk skills. Do we even have that in our "Pretty Well Set" team? I am leaning to have BU go back to his hybrid MB/FS he still has the a little of the speed but he wont' get entrenched with the offense linemen that seem to leak through our defensive line.

    Well let's here it.. Christmas list:
    And by the way try to keep it realistic because you know who is running this ship.

  • In reply to nicholsra:

    I'm all over a big WR and a FS, Lobo. Our O-line sure could use some help, but if it's big names we're talking about, we can only focus on a couple. We appear to have a roster full of slot receivers (though Martz may be able to better utilise them than Mr.Bean). Even Shabba's not that big at 6'2. it's no coincidence that Cutler found a friend with two weeks to go. Height is good. Have a look around the NFL - how many little receivers do you see at the heart of any team ? The days of Steve Smith are over. This is the age of V-Jack, Marshall, Moss, Burress ... and I want one Santa.

    After watching Sharper's clinic in coverage, how different would our season have been with a knowledgeable head at FS ? And with Urlacher in front of him instead of Uter Von Schtupp ?

    Random - is anyone's head melted that Jerry Angelo played defensive tackle ?

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    You all know I honk LONG and LOUD when the officiating SUCKS, as it too often does.

    That being said, I congratulate Referee, Scott Green, and his crew for remaining in the background, for the most part, this evening.

    I thought they missed a personal foul on Shockey (helmet to helmet tackle with a forearm to the face after a completion short of the first down on 3rd down to halt the drive) that would have kept the Saints 2nd drive of the 2nd half alive but that was about it.

    As for the 2-pt conversion, in real time I thought it was incomplete too but the referee made the correct call in overturning the ruling on the field. Great challenge by the Saints' staff.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Al.. I dont' think a flag was thrown till the fourth..??? Love to see a game just play out. rather than have the zebra's run it.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    What I took away from tonight:

    The Saints defense: Ranked 25th.

    The Saints offense: Ranked FIRST!

    After their lone sack of the game, the Colts didn't lay a glove on Drew Brees.

    Result? From the 2nd quarter on, Saints 31 Colts 7.

    Moral? Keep your franchise guy upright and good things will happen.

    Or, as Mike Martz just recently put it so succintly:

    "Everything starts with the offensive line. EVERYTHING."

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Oh, and MaddBear, I m' with Murph. Watched the game at my brother's with his 5.1 surround sound system.

    The WHO was HIDEOUS!

    They are one of my Wife's all-time favorite groups and she said she felt so embarrassed for them she wanted to just crawl under her chair.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    I muted the halftime show and read a book. Couldn't care less...I want to watch FOOTBALL.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Agree with the above posters -- Lovie would NEVER have called an onside kick to start the second half, would not have gone for it on 4th down, would never have been able to mix up the defenses against Manning, and would never have been able to do anything except run up the middle, a wonder why the Tampa 2 defense didn't work. It is very pathetic what we have been stuck with for the foreseeable future.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    More from tonight..

    According to the very astute, Phil Simms, the Saints threw THREE different defensive schemes at Mr. Manning tonight.

    THREE.

    Lovie and his boys have trouble coming up with ONE.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    come on Al..That would of been the WHO? and or COVER WHO.. both SUCK!

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Not to pile on, Maddbear, but saying The WHO sound better than the STONES is like saying dog crap smells better that cat shit.

  • In reply to MB30SD:

    Oh, and I have no axe to grind against Reverend Dungy other than this was the SECOND time this playoff season he threw up a "No way they can win..." prediction. Shut up, already.

  • Saints defense just won the game for them!!

  • Yeah, I knew Shaun Peyton when he was a kid, he grew up in the same town I did.

  • Happy days. Well done Saints. Hope this heals you some New Orleans ....

    Hopefully that's the nail in the coffin for the Manning Greatness train. Greatness does it in the Super Bowl, because that's where greatness lives. Manning sucked when he somehow won a SB MVP agaisnt us, he's choked more than any other player in the playoffs, and when it came down to it today he did exactly what Favre did and threw a rookie interception. To all those who say Peyton Manning is the greatest of all time, to all those professional hacks telling me that for years, I say kiss my beehive. Never done it on the big stage, can't do it, chokes every time. He's Dan Marino. All flash and no substance. I say this in all sincerity, if I'm going to war in the super bowl and I can take Manning or McMahon, it's Mad Mac all the way. Peyton Manning is all out of excuses - the game's up boy, and you ain't all that. Not fit to pick up Joe Cool's jockstrap and that's official. Delighted.

  • Word, Bam. I never liked Manning or Favre. Never rated either as close to the best. And I didn't really have an explanation as to why. Now I have one. When does being great become important ? Walking around a department store, signing autographs ? Doing your ten millionth interview or advert ? Or when the whole season is on the line and you need to march downfield as one well-oiled machine ?

    I hated Joe Montana when he played the game. He was bad news for my Bears whenever we met, and he was in my conference. But when the gun was to his head and the time for being a leader came, Joe Cool was there. The commentary I heard went along the lines of "Is there any way PM doesn't march down the field and score right here ?"
    Hello ? Foregone conclusion ? Really ? Manning ? They were talking about him they people would talk about Joe. In New Orleans, Joe doesn't throw a game killing interception in a championship game like Favre. In the Superbowl, he doesn't throw an interception to Tracy Porter like Manning, but instead marches his offense down the field, and wipes every second off the clock as he hits his tight end in the endzone on play-action. That would be another difference between the sheer class of Montana versus the second class Manning. Montana would make a point of wiping every second off the clock. Class. Real Class.

    Peyton Manning has been to two super bowls and sucked in both of them. That's the litmus. Superbowls. No bigger games, no bigger players. Peyton chokes for what, the 7th ... 8th time ? Joe Montana showed us he was great, Peyton showed us he's great during the regular season. But when they talk all-time greats ... no more talk of Peyton Manning please. Not even in the conversation.

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