We Should All Root For Orton

Neil Hayes writes a column comparing the initial impact of the Jay Cutler trade on both the Chicago Bears and Denver Broncos, essentially ruling it a draw.  It's not a draw but that's not a debate worth having with Hayes - who actually debates/contradicts himself about thirty times in the article.  (Can neither of these papers employ a guy with the capability of producing a well-written column?  I don't mind disagreeing with opinion but bad writing is bad writing.)

A few things Neil Hayes needs to understand: (1) Josh McDaniels did not "seek a deal for a lesser talent" when he was attempting to attain Matt Cassel from the Patriots.  There is a consensus belief from everyone who left New England this past season that Matty's the real deal, hence the $63 million contract.  (2) You can't call something a draw and write, "Despite how comparable the numbers are, Cutler has been more responsible for Chicago's success than Orton has been for Denver's."  THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF A DRAW!

All of this is bullshit butter being spread on bullshit bread - the media's desperate attempt to create animosity for a player who showed nothing but professionalism during his tenure with our club.  There is no rivalry between Jay Cutler and Kyle Orton and if folks want to forever link their careers, I'm afraid the Orton fans are going to be greatly disappointed.  Cutler wasn't dealt straight up for another quarterback.  He was dealt for two first-round picks AND another quarterback.  It's an important distinction.  If there is a rivalry to discuss, it's between Cutler and McDaniels - an unproven coach who has begun his head coaching tenure the same way Eric Mangini did.  He's winning against an easy schedule.

And remember this fact: the Bears do not acquire Jay Cutler without Kyle Orton.  The Redskins had a similar deal worked out for the star quarterback and Joshy McD chose Orton's ability over the arm strength of Jason Campbell.  It was Orton's consistency, his character, his ability to play within a system and his propensity to be safe/not turn the ball over that attracted McDaniels and it's those traits that have supported the Broncos' 4-0 start.  Orton isn't responsible for the team's wonderful opening but he knows if he doesn't put his defense in tight spots, his team has a very good chance to win.

I remember Kyle Orton getting benched against Atlanta in 2005 during a game he was winning.  I remember him being demoted from ten wins to third string.  You know what else I remember?  No complaining.  No comments.  Just hard work and a ballplayer waiting for his chance.  He got his chance last season and that chance got the Chicago Bears Jay Cutler.   

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  • first. agreed.

  • First!

    Hey, I never like Orton, but I don't hate him either. I'm glad We have Jay this season and not Orton...end of story. Who care if he does well in Denver, Denver is pulling these wins out their asses and it was Marshal not Orton that beat Dallas in the end.

  • let us not forget that Denver is two very exceptional plays (the tipped ball in week 1 and brandon marshalls crazy catch and run last week) from being 2-2.

    Kyle orton is a QB who i respect... but he's no jay cutler. Hes an average NFL QB, who plays smart. He can be successful, and I hope he is, provide it doesn't come against the bears.

  • I'm rooting for Neckbeard. He was always a class act in Chicago.

    (And by the way, Marshall took it all the way for a touchdown, but the score was already tied 10-10. With a catch but without a spectacular run, Denver would have been within a few plays of field goal range anyway...which would also eaten enough clock so Dallas wouldn't have gotten the ball back with a chance to tie or win. But Romo did get the ball back, but he fucked up that chance.

  • The media? Trying to create controversy where none exists?

    NAH!

    Don't you just love it when a writer contradicts himself in his own article, Jeff?

    I spent a lot of time as a Kyle Orton Advocate last season.The Usual Supects (media wonks) had extended ORGASMS over the numbers put up by Mssrs. Flynn and Flacco while Orton was considered "chopped liver", despite comparable or better numbers than those 2, across the board. I believe the numbers would have ALL been better across the board WITH the Bears in the playoffs if not for KO's bum ankle that clearly had an impact on his ability down the stretch.

    That said, the Bears are likely staring down 1-3, at best, without Jay Cutler.

  • I found this site when the Orton v. Grossman topic was heating up. I rooted for KO simply due to the physical attributes he has as opposed to Rex (height and big enough hands to hold onto the ball). I was tired of watching every offensive play and having this feeling deep in my stomach that he was going to lose the football. I was sick of hoping that Rex would become a quality QB in this league when the reality was he just didn't have the skill set and composure to be successful in the NFL. Enough of that. I got into it with a guy named PO that I know was well liked and a regular on this site. I enjoyed arguing with him, but I felt he quickly turned it into something personal so I retaliated. I apologize if I was part of the reason he left the site, but dude should have manned up and moved on from his delusional idea that Grossman was going to become a consistent pro-bowler. Anyways, I have been reading the great and knowledgeable posts from the beginning of the year and decided to get in the mix. I root for KO for several reasons: 1) while he doesn't have great mobility or the best arm for that matter, he is a gamer. I believe his competitiveness and will to compete won us some games last year and may be the reason he sticks around for a while in the league, 2) he has composure in the pocket and does not make many mental mistakes when pressured, and most importantly 3) he helped us land Jay Cutler in arguably the best trade the organization has ever made!! After watching this organization struggle with the QB situation for over 20 years, I am still getting use to watching this team play on Sundays with Jay. I don't know how long it will take me to feel like I'm watching the Bears, but I'm not complaining!
    Jeff, congratulations on the Trib pickin up the site. I enjoy your analysis and writing very much. The suntimes and tribune sports writing has become unbearable and unreadable. The article you are referring to in your post was maybe the worst sports article I have read ever. These guys can't be watching the games. I just stick with Chicago sports radio at this point, and I can't stand a lot of those guys as it is. Anyways, Bear down. I hope the Bears have a bad taste in their mouth from last year's debacle against Atl.

  • In reply to crowntheirass:

    I totally agree regarding Jeff's writing / commentary / analysis. I've been coming here since draft time. This is the first site I stop at to read about the Bears. I really enjoy reading all the comments also. Lots of smart football fans on here.
    Regarding the Chicago sports media, and sports media in general (print, radio, and TV) - most of it is garbage. You have to sift through it to find some good information / analysis. Half of it is like the gossip page or Entertainment Tonight - a bunch of drama queens talking about things completely unrelated to sports. A good example is the Jay Cutler press conference after the Packers game. After reading articles about it, I thought I must have seen the wrong press conference. It reminded me of watching a political speech or debate, and then listening to the pundits tell me something completely different than what I just saw.

  • In reply to crowntheirass:

    Since you asked, Jeff, the problem, as I see it, is he same as with a majority of the radio pundits, namely, the "I can do this stuff RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD" attitude. All that "Red Zone / 3rd down / how's the blocking " stuff you mentioned requires a little research. That's too much like work for a lot of these clowns.

    Did he say "research"? Who has time for research? I mean, they're only sitting at a computer with access to the ENTIRE WORLD WIDE WEB at their freakin' fingertips!? Who can be bothered with RESEARCH?!

    Hell, opinionated S.O.B. that I am, I DO bother to take some time to back my positions up with some facts.

    There's a guy named Bob Kemp, currently heard afternoons in Phoenix
    on KDUS. He used to be the overnight guy for SPORTING NEWS RADIO and he's a former print reporter. He is the poster boy for preparation. When he comes at you with a position he is always armed with the facts and when you talk to him you had damn well better be armed with some of your own. Alas, he is becoming more & more of a dinosaur.

  • In reply to crowntheirass:

    Isn't Orton 25-12 as a starter? That is the most important stat of all.

  • In reply to crowntheirass:

    I hear ya Albert and good points. When I put up my article last week about the Bears having started only 3-1 twice (now three times) since Ditka, it required about twenty minutes of work and I hadn't/haven't seen it printed anywhere in the papers.

    My biggest sadness about not having Sunday ticket (because I can't get DirecTV) is that I can't properly discuss other teams. I rely on their beat guys. And knowing ours, that probably ain't smart.

  • In reply to crowntheirass:

    Since you ask, BDG, the "FIRST" issue (for me anyway). Probably because I'm older and more curmudgeonly, but ...

    A) As happened on THIS thread, and many others "First" is not always first. I don't know about anybody else, but I can't tell if I happen to be first until after I post, even if the counter reads reads "0 comments". I post and suddenly it says "4 comments".

    B) "FIRST" isn't a post unto itself. The post consisting of nothing but "FIRST" strikes me as graffitti and I DETEST graffitti.

    3 er, C)I see it as akin to Jared Allen's "Rodeo Routine" on a sack. Act like you've been there before.

    D) Tradition? Well, not all traditions are good. Like the Bears' tradition of pedestrian quarterbacks or the Cubs' tradition of no championships for 100 years.

    There. The grumpy pessimist has spoken.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    1. I agree that decarling "FIRST" seems a bit juvenile.

    2. But I will defend some forms of grafitti if it doesn't hurt anyone in particular....I find sidewalk grafitti a hell of a lot more interesting while walking than a blank sidewalk....but I'm strange that way.

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    I liked Kyle. Mostly because he wasn't R*x. He worked hard, kept his mouth shut. Didn't win you games, but didn't lose them either. A competent, serviceable quarterback that read defenses pretty well and could adjust on the fly. It did grate a little when the ball needed to be zipped down field in a hurry, or a deft rainbow was required to drop neatly into an outside receiver's hands at full stretch and the tools just weren't there to get it done. I don't understand how a Bears' fan can turn on the guy though. He got us Cutler. He didn't do us wrong - he was a decent guy. Where's the beef ? He switched teams ? He was traded to Denver and that was his fault ? Favre got booted out of GB and fans turned on him. Why ? You booted him out ! He wanted to play for and retire with GB.

    I liked Kyle, but I love Jay.

    By the bye, following on from Albert's point about asking trivia questions and not answering them. I think I posted one a while ago on one of these threads and never gave the answer ...

    Q: Buddy Ryan famously had trouble with player's names. So he had nicknames for everyone on the defense. What was his nickname for Mike Singletary ?

    A: "Stupid"

  • In reply to IrishBearsFan:

    Rex kept his mouth shut too, and he had much more reason to open it than just about anyone else. The behavior of many Chicago "fans" toward that man was shameful.

  • In reply to IrishBearsFan:

    Jeff, when Hayes said McD was willing to seek a deal for a lesser talent, he was referring to Orton, not Cassel. But I agree with your main point that Orton was a class act and a team player. Still, wouldn't you feel better about the trade if Orton turned out to be a lemon? I think it's psychology and not animosity that's fueling any Chicago anti-Ortonism.

  • In reply to IrishBearsFan:

    Can' wait until Jared Allen puts Cutler flat on his back.....He could not handle the pressure in Denver and a different uniform won't chnage the fact that he is soft.....

  • In reply to IrishBearsFan:

    I gotta say that Orton Looked Very Good tonight for the Broncos... WHere the hell was that composed Orton when he was in our uniform?

  • In reply to Albertintucson:

    Al, you've stated your side of the arguement admirably, and based on your missives I will no longer attempt a "first". Well played, from this point on I'll "act like I've been in the endzone before".

  • In reply to crowntheirass:

    TWEET!

    FLAG ON THE PLAY.

    ILLEGAL PROCEDURE On gpldan.

    No fair posting a good trivia question and not providing the answer!

    Would Alex Trebek give the FINAL JEOPARDY answer and then just sign off?

    Believe it or not, I once PASSED the JEOPARDY test when they were in town once upon a time..

    No, they never called.

  • FLAG ON THE PLAY.

    FALSE START.

    BEARS 4 EVER.

    CALLED "FIRST" WHEN HE WASN'T.

    5 YARDS.

  • I always liked Orton, partially because he reminded me (playstyle-wise) of Jim Miller. And I always thought once we got a great D and a new coach and good ST, man if we just had Jim Miller now, we'd be good. And along he comes reincarnate. Now there is no comparison in the fact , that I am glad we made the trade, I love watching our Offense with Cutler.
    But it does really bring to light that our OC and HC together can't seem to take advantage of the skillset their players have. Look at Orton now, no picks, 4-0, 9th rated passer rating in the NFL, over 225 yards a game passing. He has a coordinator and a coach that can change their offense to suit his abilities. We got lucky enough that we got a QB handed to us that can play in any offense, that is why they are both successful.

  • In reply to dutsami:

    You took the words right out of my mouth, FTW. How any Bear's fan can wish KO ill will is beyond me. That guy did nothing while he was here but EXACTLY WHAT WAS ASKED OF HIM, AND DID IT WITH QUIET CLASS. He doesn't have a cannon, but he's got a thinking fuckin' brain between those ears above that neckbeard. He doesn't get rattled, and is accurate enough in a true WC offense to be lethal with the right protection. Bashing KO, IMHO, is akin to bashing Brownie. I know none of us would consider that. I'll bet the farm if Lovie stuck with KO in '05, we don't go home in that Carolina game.

  • I always appreciated Orton's leadership abilities...plus, he usually seemed very up front with the media and would take the blame when he thought he deserved it. Many of us also seem to forget just how well he was playing last year up until he hurt his ankle in the Lions game...I remember him getting pissed about it because he thought the defender hit him late out of bounds, so he pushed the guy. Like most Bears fans, I wish the best for him going forward. Viva la Neck Beard!

    That said, the trade was a no brainer. Unless the draft picks turn into gold for Denver, I imagine this trade will go down as big win for the Bears one day...only time will tell.

  • Orton played well before the injury and it was a late hit. Really a cheapshot. Orton has good stats this year but I'm not sure it's all due to coaching. Great WR's and one of the best O-lines in the league are more responsible, IMO. I too root for Orton and can't understand why people hate on him. There are a few good sports writers in Chicago but they are out numbered by the shit disturbers. I guess that's what people want judging by sports talk radio and the screaming heads on TV. Oh well.

    GO BEARS!

  • Albert, what I don't understand is this...

    Columnists are paid to have opinions. And Jay Mariotti sucked but at least he made a statement and stood by it. You can acknowledge the other side of the argument in your essay. In fact, it's the best way to approach debate in general.

    But our columnists, and I'm sure the rest of the country's, use statistics incorrectly to sway an argument. They re-characterize situations in order to make a statement. I'm sure Hayes is fighting for space in the paper but the way to attain space shouldn't be to formulate a mis-guided argument around mis-used facts.

    What would have been interesting? Break down the actual play of Orton or those of us who haven't seen him play much. Let us know how good/bad he's really been, as opposed to relying on the NFL.com stats page. How's he been in the red zone? On third down? How's his blocking been? Does he still go to first-read only? Is he developing as a scrambler?

  • I can' cheer for Orton, because all the Bronco fans do is make fun of us for are record they say look at us were 4-0 and look at you, your 3-1. we get the better of the deal and there's just nothing I can say except Cutler is better. they are just relentless with their opinions and comments. they despise the Bears because of Cutler, I would Cutler too if I was a Bronco fan, but despise a team because of him idk

  • you grew a neckbeard....

  • I just want to re-iterate that Doc Nitty grew a neckbeard in support of Orton last year. You are the man Doc.

  • I was an Orton supporter, not as big as doc "neckbeard" nitty, but he's off the squad now, so who gives two shits? I'll root for him the same way i rooted for McMahan after he went to Minny. The fact remains that we have a far superior player at he position, so good riddance.

  • The idea that winning record is the most important stat of a quarterback is one of those old-guy philosophies that is just wrong. It's like judging a starting pitcher on wins? If a pitcher is 10-8 with a 2.10 ERA is he worse than a pitcher who is 20-9 with a 4.34 ERA? against the same competition?

  • In reply to JeffHughes:

    I didn't mean that winning percentage determines the better QB. I meant that winning is more important than any particular stat. Would you rather have a QB that puts up great numbers but chokes in the big moments or one that puts up slightly less but doesn't rattle and just seems to always find ways to win. Luckily we don't have to choose.

  • In reply to JeffHughes:

    I KNEW Tony Parrish belonged higher on that list. He was a PAC-10 guy who was an impact player for Washington back in the Don James era so I got to see him play a lot out here and knew the Bears had picked a winner!

    Thanks, for the research, BDG!

    "Stupid"? LOL. THAT I did not know, Irish.

    Have you heard the blurb from Sammurai Mike about getting coaching advice from Iron Mike? I think ESPN Radio is using it as a promo and it goes it goes something along these lines...

    Singletary says they were losing bad one day and so Ditka's just sending 'anybody' into the game so he asks Ditka

    "Are you giving up?" Ditka just turns and walks away.

    After the game..

    Ditka: Someday, when you're a head coach in this league..."

    Singletary: "I'm never gonna be a head coach".

    Ditka: "Someday, WHEN YOU"RE A HEAD COACH IN THIS LEAGUE, I want you to remember this, and when somebody asks you that you GRAB'EM BY THE THROAT..."

  • In reply to JeffHughes:

    I believe Buddy Ryan was also famous for referring to players by number.

  • In reply to JeffHughes:

    Alas, many of the qualities that made Buddy a great assistant worked against him as a head coach.

    I had a front row seat when he came to Arizona and took over the Cardinals who were JUST starting to come around under Joe Bugel improving from 4-12 to 7-9 but Bill Bidwill pushed the panic button and went for the big name when he had a chance to get Buddy.

    Ryan came in with his usual bluster: "You've got a winner in town". Wrong. He wasted all kinds of money by signing a bunch of his past-their prime Eagle cronies like Seth Joyner, Andre Waters and Clyde Simmons along with ex-Bears Wilbur Marshall and Jimmmy Mac (also way past their prime).He promptly dismantled what had been a solid offense (9th out of 28 in scoring) in the league the year before with Steve Beuerlein, Ricky Proehl and Larry Centers and made them 27th of 28 in scoring in his first year. Buddy never accomplished diddly in Phoenix. The "Winner in town" had 8-8 and 4-12 seasons and wore out his welcome in 2 seasons.

    Buddy could have been the poster boy for "The Peter Principle" (eventually being promoted BEYOND your optimum skill set).

  • Pshaw! I don't post much here, but I read every day. You guys are the best. But...

    I also read fark.com. The "First!" stuff there, they filter it and cause the "First!" to be "Boobies". Much more humorous. Makes the guy claiming first post to look like a boob instead. no offense ;-)

  • Ouch sorry! I won't challenge the call on the field.

    I left the question late into an old thread, and checked back once and nobody bit - so I blew it off.

    BDG has all the answers above.

    I wish this system had email notification of reply, like Slashdot has...

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