The Den Podcast - Ep 30: Jared and Luis, Cubs Postseason, and Pending Free Agents

Jared Wyllys and Luis Medina joined me to talk about what we thought of the Cubs season as a whole. We talked both good and bad. Plus we recap some pending free agents the the Cubs should target this offseason.

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  • Good discussion, guys.

  • In reply to Cliff1969:

    Thanks, Cliff.

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    OK, so I just listened to the podcast and I have a question. In discussing Madison Bumgarner Myles, Jared and Luis were going on the assumption that the Giants don't pick up the club option. So the question was, as I understand it, "Should the Cubs go ahead and pick up the club option?" WHAT? I don't think that's how it works. Or am I misunderstanding it. The way I understand it is the Giants have a club option. If they don't pick it up (again, going on that assumption) I think the "club option" is nullified. Bumgarner becomes a FA. The Cubs can't say, "We'll go ahead and cover the $12M" and now Bumgarner is a Cub. If nothing else I think there would be no shortage of teams willing to "take on the club option."

  • In reply to Joel Mayer:

    Hey Joel - that wasn't the intent there. You're right about how club options work. If the Giants decline to pick up Madbum's option at $12mm, he'll become a free agent. He'd likely then seek something worth more that.

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    In reply to Myles Phelps:

    Then I must have just mis-heard or misunderstood.

  • In reply to Joel Mayer:

    I think they meant that the Giants could pick up the option and then trade him, possibly to the Cubs. But, if SF did that, wouldn't they lose a draft pick? I don't see it happening.

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    In reply to Cliff1969:

    I thought they then moved on from "picking up the option" to "what if we traded for him?" As far as I know there would be no draft pick issue. As I understand it a "club option" means the club can extend the contract as if it were an additional year on the original contract or terminate the contract (usually with a buy out). So they could pick up the option and subsequently trade him unless something in the contract itself prevented it, for instance a clause that said "If the club picks up the option they will not trade him..." with possible date limits (ie "before Opening Day" or "before July 1") or maybe a list of teams he agrees to a trade to in advance/list of teams he refuses to play for. But that would all be contract specific and I am not aware of any limits on the club option.

    I hope I just mis-understood what they were saying because this would make no sense to me.

  • In reply to Joel Mayer:

    I didn't fully explain my thought - if the Giants turn down his option and he signs elsewhere, don't they get a compensatory draft pick? That would have to be considered vs. picking up the option and then trading him. Since the podcast is an hour long, I'm not gonna go back and listen again to clarify.

  • In reply to Cliff1969:

    I think you would get a lot more by signing him and trading him then a late 1st round compensatory draft pick. But, I believe the point is mute because the Giants will pick up his option.

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    That doesn't sound right. If so, how would they know which team gets to pick up his option? It would have to be the team with the worse record, like waiver claims. That makes no sense.

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    In reply to Wrigley0923:

    The thing is it wouldn't be a waiver claim. I suppose if the Giants wanted to they could put him on waivers and then work out a trade with the first team to claim him. But I am pretty sure ANY team would love to get Bumgarner and then, if they are out of contention, "flip" him at the deadline. Generally unless a player gets injured they are worth more in trade in July than in December. Example par excellence is Aroldis Chapman.

  • Dave kaplan said kris bryant and boras turned down an extension offer well north of 200 million from the cubs.I would trade him after next season.Dude is not worth the 300+ million that boras will want when he'll be 30 years old.

  • In reply to bolla:

    Wow I love KB but I wouldn't pay him a dime more frankly he needs to show that he can stay healthy and still put up the power production expected of him. I think he will and I love KB but he's not exactly gonna be a young free agent either. Hope the report isn't credible but Kaplan is about as reliable as they come

  • In reply to kkhiavi:

    Unpopular opinion but I would trade bryant(after 2019), Good player but I also think he gets overrated by cubs fans. His defense is sub par and he frequently has defensive mental mistakes like in the wc game going to 2nd when he should of went to 1st.Mike trout is worth 200+ million and didn't get that & neither should bryant he's one of the most un clutch players I ever watched.I think boras is gonna try to screw the cubs over for the service time situation in 2015 so I would get ahead of it and trade the guy before he becomes a fa.I'm not paying him 300+ million or whatever insane contract boras wants for a 30 year old player with sub par defense and is always knicked up.

  • In reply to bolla:

    1st off I see your perspective and while overrated is a strong word see where you're coming from and that's coming from a guy that bought a KB jersey in 2015 one of my favorite players on the team as is Javy baez. I don't like to bash Kris Bryant I still think he's an all star caliber player but I actually agree that he's a little overrated because of the expectations that come with being the MVP at a young and with his crazy pedigree as a top pick and elite prospect coming up through the minors. I generally don't feel like he's an MVP caliber player at this time so if you consider overrated to be he's an all star caliber player and not a true superstar then I'd agree. I actually didn't think he deserved MVP in 2016 even though I was rooting for him as a cub fan I felt he did too much of his damage against bottom feeders like the reds. His defense is questionable I don't care if the metrics say he's been decent this year or that year anyone that watches the game doesn't fully trust him at 3B the guy can't even throw a baseball without doing that little hitch that costs him almost one second every grounder to him and he's not a natural, fluid rangy infielder. And I think good pitchers can generally get him out if they execute he has a lot of quadrants of the strike zone that he just can't handle such as the low and away pitch what makes him good is he has the advanced disciplined approach to wait for his pitch and make you come to him. I believe that these contact issues and his inability to handle certain pitches like the low and away pitch are part of the reason why he's not our most trusted guy in RBI spots for a hitter of his caliber you can pitch to Bryant if you execute your pitches well but he just doesn't cover the strike zone as well as rizzo or baez. I'd actually be open to trading him too for a kings ransom if he has a big year I don't think we're resigning him the guys been inconsistent year to year in his run production and as of now I don't see him as a 250 million dollar player plus he reaches FA his age 31 season no thanks. I'd be very careful about trading him at the same time though if he bounces back though his prime years still maybe worth more to us then what we get we still have to remember that he's one of the main reasons why the cubs became a championship contending team to begin with and while I'd like to see more consistent run production I still think KB is generally a stud and while I agree with you that he maybe a tad overrated he's still a great player we just expect him to bat .290 and hit 35+ home runs and 100+ RBIs every year and most players can't do that every single season especially given his injury issues

  • In reply to kkhiavi:

    Yea when I say overrated, I mean as far as superstar caliber player.Everyone remembers the hype and bryant is very very good I'm not saying he sucks.I'm saying as far as superstar baseball player that had "worth the wait" billboards by wrigley before his debut he simply hasn't lived up to the hype.I completely agree with everything else you're saying

    That being said I highly doubt theo trades him but this is speculation directly from Kaplan .He said if the cubs think bryant won't accept any long term extensions at a reasonable amount for both sides, theo should trade bryant for degrom then sign machado then trade quintana .Kaplan said he heard this from a source about the 200 + mil extension rejection and the trade speculation he discussed with a scout he knows.The cubs do not not think bryant will sign long term before free agency and have approached him multiple times about it. I would do that trade in a freakin heartbeat then sign machado to play 3b.Degrom + machado makes the cubs flat out scary

  • In reply to bolla:

    We can't "debate" the extension offer without the details. How many years? NTC? Options? Incentives?

    As much as I dislike Boras, Bryant would be stupid to sign anything until we see what Harper and Machado get. Signing an extension early gives all the advantage to the Cubs.

  • In reply to Cliff1969:

    I'm assuming but It probably was an offer like trouts that would cover the next 3 years of arbitration and a couple years of free agency.

    I'm surprised none of the cubs core have been extended yet.I know baez,bryant and contreras were offered long term extensions but
    declined, besides rizzo and castro no one else has been extended since theo took over.

  • Just puts more pressure on Bryant to perform the next year.

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    Would you trade KB, Schwarber, & Happ for Trout? Or Betts? I think I would do it for either without any doubt. If the FO pulled that off, Machado would probably say yes to play 3b & sign with the Cubs. Cutch would probably sign also to play in the OF. It's a pipe dream, but the lineup would be devastating. Betts has more years of control, and Trout til 2020.

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    In reply to Wrigley0923:

    Although we would still need a 2b and closer. Zo could play 2b mostly, and you could rotate Machado, Baez, & Bote around 3b, SS, & 2b to rest Zo. It's a buttload of $, but add Kimbrel and a couple RP's. I'm guessing it would add about 50 mil a year to payroll, maybe a little less if it's Betts.

  • In reply to Wrigley0923:

    YES!! Wouldn't hesitate to do that, but the angels and red sox probably wouldn't.

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    In reply to bolla:

    Me either. That's why I said pipe dream. I could see Boston as a slight possibility because they could use a great 3b. The Angel's, I have no idea what they're doing. Rebuild, retool, etc. All they have is Simmons, Ohtani, & Trout. I would trade Schwarber & Happ for Simmons though. Then that would probably put us out of the Machado sweapstakes & go all in for Harper.

  • In reply to Wrigley0923:

    I was disappointed when ohtani picked the angels.I know he went with comfort but that's as dead end of a franchise in mlb you can pick to play for.Would love to get simmons he's imo the best defensive ss in mlb.Simmons then brandon crawford.I think the cubs should consider trading montgomery this off season to fill holes.If walkwood returns to form(which he's on record saying he's 100% confident he will) and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and a clean slate in 2019 so if he can the cubs will have a lot of starter depth.Jason mcleod said the cubs expect big things from alzolay in 2019, they expected it this season but unfortunately he got injured. So if alzolay is up at some point he's gonna start/spot start or come out the pen then the cubs will have surplus in starting pitching and can trade one.

    I don't know if schwarber is gonna get traded. mcleod also said he believes the best is yet to come for schwarber and he needs to tweak some things to become a better overall hitter, when he was drafted he was a hitter to all fields,he's become primarily a power hitter who can't hit lefties.I think happ and a prospect could be enough because simmons only has 2 years left on his contract.

  • In reply to Wrigley0923:

    Throw in Russell at no extra charge.

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