Manny Ramirez: Player Coach

Manny Ramirez: Player Coach

Manny Ramirez will spend some time near Javier Baez and Arismendy Alcantara in AAA Iowa as Ramirez begins a stint as player coach for the I Cubs. Ramirez is on a career redemption tour that has taken a path through the minor leagues as Ramirez is hungry for one last shot at MLB playing time.

Here's a story Ken Rosenthal wrote about a reflective Ramirez in the preseason. Sahadev Sharma had the official Cubs and Ramirez statements about his role here.

There's a lot of baggage surrounding Ramirez the player from a PED and a makeup standpoint. He was viewed as a flake late in his Boston career and will have to fight against that perception with the Cubs fanbase. It's a reputation that was well earned in all honesty but this particular front office has been very good about vetting high makeup players in the past and I think they've done due diligence on Ramirez. I think this is a solid move from both a development and entertainment standpoint.

Javier Baez stands to benefit the most from this as his approach has been taken advantage of in recent weeks. Baez has had a mini breakout of sorts but the strikeouts are still plentiful and the young, talented shortstop is still hitting just .203 on the season. It's early but there are some clear indicators that his aggressive gameplan at the plate could use some refinement.

Ramirez, for all his physical talents, was a student of hitting. He had the supernatural ability to place the barrel on the ball that much is certain but he also had an idea of how pitchers wanted to attack him and understood what balls he could hit and which ones he should spit on. There was a refined approach with Manny the hitter that sometimes gets overlooked as Manny the sideshow was the main distraction from the cerebral side of his game.

It's hard to hate the deal on my end. I've laid the reasons why but Dabs said it best:

 

Filed under: AAA Iowa

Tags: Baseball, Iowa Cubs, Manny Ramirez, mlb

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  • I wouldn't want this crazy POS within a thousand miles of our kids!!! This is as pathetic as Clark the mascot. A hundred years of failure and it just keeps piling up!

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    Are you one of those people that think the Cubs made a choice between fielding a competitive team this year or having a mascot?

  • In reply to jorel1114:

    No, I think Clark, Manny and the team on the field are all embarrassments. As regards Manny, if they wanted a selfish, me-first cheater they could have just brought back Sammy Soso

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    How is a mascot for kids an embarrassment? What's an embarrassment is that you take such offense to it. It's for kids. Not you. Of coarse you have no interest in it. But if someone takes their 5 year old daughter to the park and she has a blast seeing Clark and having her picture taken with him and that causes her to have interest in being there, isn't that a good thing? What does it hurt at the same time? Nothing. Get over it.

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    In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    Excellent post nmu.

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    The team is an embarrassment, Manny is a question mark, the mascot is a mascot. I really don't get why people care about a mascot. It's not for you, it's for kids. Did you know that the Red Sox have a mascot and they managed to win 3 World Series in the last 10 years? The White Sox have one too, also a World Series in the last 10 years. In fact the Yankees and Angels are the only ones without mascots and while they have won World Series in the last decade or so, there are also a bunch of other teams that have won World Series with mascots. And Super Bowls. And NBA titles. And Stanley Cups. Mascots don't matter. They have should have no bearing on your life unless you are a plushee.

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    Clark was on performance-enhancing drugs too?

  • As long as nobody ever says "Manny being Manny", I'm more than pleased with this deal.

    (No, I did not just say it.)

    Manny is a master of the science of hitting, and his presence will be huge for our young hitters. He's also a baseball icon, a jawdropper in his prime, a man to respect. (for most things he did, of course not the PEDs) It might even be nice to have him hitting fourth behind Baez - give him some protection and take the focus off of him. Baez faces a lot of challenges, some brought on by his own ego and competitiveness. This may help in a lot of ways.

  • In reply to HackWilson09:

    As long as we don't end up with "Javy being Javy....?)

  • In reply to HackWilson09:

    "his presence will be huge for our young hitters"....since it's done I guess I have to hope so and hope his influence doesn't spawn a bunch of me first prima donnas who think PEDs are a nice option

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    there are a hundred other negative things that could take up your day..

  • In reply to HackWilson09:

    Good post Mauricio!

    I just typed the same thing on the other thread Hack. The basic thing I wrote. is Theo knows this guys well, so we have to assume Theo knows what he is getting into.

    But as you said Hack, Manny is a master of the science of hitting. There are very few that know it better than him. For all his faults, he was a tireless worker in that regard, and really tried to perfect his approach.

  • In reply to bleedblue:

    The problem some people are having is that they don't trust Theo, so if Theo likes Manny that's even more reason for them to dislike this whole thing. Those people are derppppppppppppppp.

  • the Gods favor the bold , and this is a bold move by Theo , I like it.

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    Seems more like a seat of the pants move by a FO that is usually meticulous.

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    In reply to 44slug:

    If I had to bet, I would wager quite a bit of thought and preparation went into this move...

  • Can't hurt I suppose. He really was a monster at the plate and if he can impart a little of that to the youngsters than it's a win. I have to say, however, that I'm a little skeptical of his ability to do so. There are lots of people who have skill or knowledge or ability and have a very hard time putting that skill, etc. into manageable bits of information (i.e.--scaffolding the lesson well). But no harm in giving him a shot at doing so... if he is a natural teacher, then the upside is huge.

  • In reply to Pura Vida:

    Perhaps he is a good teacher or, perhaps like Teddy baseball he can do but not teach. "No harm"? unless his attitude rubs off.

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    I don't think Javy needs help with attitude. He does need help with hitting.

  • In reply to Pura Vida:

    Ted Williams comes to mind, A Great hitter who couldnt teach hitting, primarily because since it came so easily to him he thought it should come easily to everyone else. BTW, Ted and Javy have the same 20/15 eyesight. Maybe thats a good sign,

  • If Ricketts OK with Manny and his multiple PED suspensions mentoring young Cub propects, I really struggle to see how Sammy's sins warrant his continued total banishment from the organization?

  • In reply to Charlieboy:

    I think this shows that the organization's problems with Sammy aren't just about the PEDs. I have my own guesses as to what the differences are between the two situations, but they're probably no better than yours.

  • Two failed PED tests and an alleged third failed test, he is a cheat, and he let his teammates down and should not be anywhere near impressionable young men. With so many other positive options to coach why hire him? The only positive to this move is that you know this is driving Sosa nuts.

  • In reply to Rock:

    PEDs didn't make him the kind of hitter he was though. PEDs inflated power numbers, helped him recover faster from injuries, but they did not mentally change him into a natural hitter.

  • In reply to jorel1114:

    It does exactly show the mans moral character or lack there of.

  • In reply to Rock:

    It shows the moral character or lack there of of the person at that time. We could comb thru the lives of anyone of us here and find some decisions that were pretty dumb or morally questionable. The question is, did we learn from them or are we still acting the same way?

    If you've learned from your mistakes, then you shouldn't be defined by them.

    I have no idea whether Manny has learned from his or not, but I'm guessing that Theo did his homework on the matter. He usually does.

  • In reply to Quedub:

    Unfortunately it is a decade long of failed tests and teammate/organization run in's. I am all for giving people 2nd chances but this guy had been coddled too many times. That long of a pattern of bad behavior does not change very quickly or very easily.This organization needs more good/positive news not more distractions/controversial news. Too many other very good coaches to choose from.

  • In reply to Quedub:

    It takes 3 times to learn??? Us he sorry or sorry he got caught?

  • In reply to jorel1114:

    You know that how?

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Because everyone basically knows what PEDs do. They allow you to build massive amounts of bulk very quickly, they give you a ton of power, they help you heal from injuries much quicker. But they can't make you a natural hitter. I could take a bunch of PEDs and bulk up and probably hit some home runs, if I ever actually was able to properly recognize a pitch to hit, which I can't because I'm terrible at baseball. I could stand in front of a pitching machine throwing meatballs at me, on PEDs, and actually knock them out of the park most likely.

  • In reply to jorel1114:

    Maybe, but stats show otherwise. Those who used improved in every way including hitting for average. In some cases a dramatic improvement. Of course if one feels like Jesus Christ, you will probably hit with more confidence, but one also would be able to speed up ones bat allowing hitters to get a split second longer look before committing. PED users used because it gave them an unfair advantage and it tarnished baseball and its records. None should be any young players idol and fans who make excuses for roiders are enablers. Still second chances are good thing if sincere.

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    In reply to Rock:

    How many of those positive options have a career OPS of .996?

  • The Rangers did the same thing last year and Mike Olt said Manny was a big help with hitting techniques and how to prepare for the MLB. I trust Epstein knows what he is doing here, and applaud the move. This is a move that the FO primarily feels he can help Baez, but I think his hitting approach could help a lot of other hitters like Vitters and Jackson. Of course, tutelage is only helpful if the students take to it. I am not worried about a possible PED influence, nor even prima donna status. Time will show how good of move this is.....

  • In reply to CubsFutureIsBright:

    I hope you are correct. Personally he represents much of what is wrong with many modern players, me-first cheaters. I have to think there are many well qualified hitting coaches who do not represent a black mark on the game.

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    Agreed. I will hope that I'm wrong but with his track record the right actions need to be in place from day one, not just words.

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    You're right, he's a me-first cheater, who helped his team end a decades-long World Series drought, and then win another a few years later.

  • I like this move, it's fun. I think it is pretty naive if anyone believes that Javy or anyone else on the team would be more likely to be influenced to take PED's because Manny is coaching. I find it hard to believe that a serious professional athlete is not aware of PED's or their availability unless they are rolling around in a bubble.

  • In reply to Jason Diedrich:

    In fact Manny has admitted to doing PED's, and is now warning prospects of the dangers of going down that path. He was also a GREAT hitter throughout his career, a professional hitter with an excellent approach, and most importantly he is reportedly very good at relaying that knowledge to prospects. Some great hitters can't teach, he apparently can. I trust the Cubs Front Office to have thoroughly vetted this whole situation before pulling the trigger.

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    If anyone is concerned with Manny being a hitting coach solely based on his prior PED use, just remind yourself who the current hitting coach for the Dodgers is, who was never a good a hitter as Manny was, but still coaches the 3rd best hitting team in the NL right now.

  • In reply to Noah Alsberg:

    And look at who LaRussa hired for the Cards. I'm thinking this is really only to generate interest in this year and get some butts in the seats this year. Can't see Manny having any important impact 2 years from now.

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    In reply to Oneear:

    Generate interest and fill seats in Des Moines? This move was made because the FO feels Manny has a wealth of knowledge he can impart on our prospects at AAA. Selling a few tickets in Iowa doesn't have a significant impact on the Cubs' bottom line.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    I meant filling the seats in Wrigley. Whether or not Manny comes to Wrigley, he has people talking about the Cubs.

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    In reply to Oneear:

    I don't really see how hiring a AAA player/coach is going to fill any seats at Wrigley...I don't think he'd even pay for his own contract with the difference his signing would make.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    And how many teams, including one in town, have tried the Manny Puts Butts in the Seats approach? Did it actually work? It's absurd that people think Manny is a PR move to fill up Wrigley Field. Then again people are idiots.

  • I completely agree with Jason's comment.

  • I find it naïve that anyone thinks this POS is a good role model. It's not just PED cheating. Undisciplined, me first, bad team mates. Doesn't surprise I guess. As evidenced above and elsewhere Bonds, McGwire, Sosa et al have their supporters.

  • In reply to Hubbs16:

    It's not about being a role model. It's about being a hitting coach. One of the greatest students of hitting of all time who learned to develop one of the best approaches to an at bat of all time. What's that ONE thing that Javy struggles with? Oh, approach? Seems like a perfect fit to me.

    Epstein said explicitly that he will not be moving to the Cubs major league roster. So what is in this for Manny other than wanting to be a coach?

    Epstein: “Manny is not only one of the best hitters of all time, he is also a dedicated student of hitting and has proven to be a gifted teacher with younger teammates who have worked with him in the batting cage. Behind the scenes he has always been a tireless worker who is very serious about the craft of hitting. Manny has made real mistakes in the past but he has owned up to them and moved his life in a positive direction the last couple of years. He is in a really great place right now and wants to share the lessons he's learned along the way. We think he deserves another chance and that our young hitters will benefit from it.”

    “While Manny is not and will not be a fit on the Cubs major league roster, we do think at this stage of his life he’s a nice fit as a mentor for some of the young talented hitters we have in the organization. Manny will coach full-time and play part-time in a limited role that does not take at-bats away from our prospects.

    And Manny: “I’m at the stage of my life and career where I really want to give something back to the game that I love -- the game that has meant so much to me and done so much for me and my family,” Ramirez said. “I know I am nearing the end of my playing days, but I have a lot of knowledge to pass on to the next generation – both what to do and what not to do. The Cubs have some very talented young hitters, and I would love nothing more than to make a positive impact on their careers. I am passionate about baseball and about hitting, and I have a lot to offer. While I would love to return to the major leagues, I leave that in God’s hands. My focus will be on working with the young hitters, making sure they don't make the same mistakes I made, and helping the team any way I can."

    So if you think you're a better character judge than Theo, that's fine. But I choose to trust him and not you, sir.

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    Excellent analysis! Lets hope it works out.

  • Theo is the guy who got rid of the Manny who basically quit on his team to force a trade in Boston. Theo is also the guy who is now hiring Manny to work with the future of the organization. I have to believe Theo can see the difference and is comfortable with the new Manny so I am as well.

  • In reply to Cphil:

    Agree, Theo would not do this unless he believed in him. Let's hope
    a great hitter like he used to be can help our young hitter some

  • In reply to Cphil:

    Given that history between them, I think this move is evidence of integrity and class on Theo's part.

  • Earlier this week Jaron Madison, the Cubs director of player development, said this in response to a question regarding Javier Baez:

    "He's going to be around the corner now. His defense is good, he's starting to lock in at the plate and he's getting his walks. He's starting to buy in to what he has to do as a hitter. And it's all going to click pretty soon."

    "He has made some adjustments to his approach," said Madison, adding that several minor league instructors have worked with Baez recently. "He's just understanding how they're going to pitch him, and it's just a maturity process for him because he's young (21). People know he swings hard. So they're going to try to throw him off-speed stuff and see if he can chase. Now he's starting to learn to let those pitches go and get something to hit, and it will start clicking."

  • What a strange move...seems to give off a stench of desperation by this FO. I don't recall this guy being known as a great teammate (me first diva) and then there's the PEDs stuff.....

  • In reply to VaCubFan:

    If this FO was desperate wouldn't Baez be in Chicago?

  • By the way, Baez went 2 for 4 today with another homerun to extend his hitting streak to 10 games. During which time he is hitting .390 with 16 hits in 41 ab's - 6 doubles, 4 HR's, 9 runs, and 11 RBI's. Enfuego.

  • Manny work ethic towards hitting has been well noted.. forgot what coach said he would be the second guy into the clubhouse.. he always tried to get in before the players.. but Manny was always there before him working in the cage. I love the move

  • Manny aside, is the FO started to get worried about Iowa's coaching? It hasn't been a good couple of months for any of our AAA hitters.

  • In reply to October:

    I wouldnt think so.. adding a great hitter to share his knowledge can only help.. I dont think this move should be seen as any judgment on the coaching staff.

  • Another epic bullpen meltdown

  • I don't understand this move. Iowa cubs hurting for money? Sell more tickets and send money to Chicago?
    If we do this. Why can't the cubs reach out to Sosa?

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    It has nothing to do with tickets and everything to do with his fantastic batting approach and ability to teach. If they thought Sosa was a better candidate for the job, they would have hired him and not Manny. It's about who is better for the job. Just because they both have PED questions looming over them does not make them comparable.

  • In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    I don't care if Sammy didn't get the job. My point is if u reach out for a lazy steroid user. And yet you don't reach out for Sammy who was face of cubs for so long. I would like to see Sosa and cubs have good relationship. Don't give 2 cents if Sammy is or isn't coaching.

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Lazy?

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    If you are always looking for a short cut that make u lazy or a cheater. There were plenty if times watching a game and manny didn't go hard.

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I find that definition of lazy, well, lazy. You could argue the PED use was dishonest, immoral, etc. (neverminding the claims that 80% or more of players were using in that era), but it's not as though he was doing this in lieu of working hard. It has been pointed out many times that he was, in fact, someone who worked tirelessly to get better at his craft.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    Thanks Webster. Sounds like you did well on the ACT. U have yours. I have mine. This isn't what my post was about but since u r opening a can of worms. Taking PEDs is a easier alternative to getting stronger. If you don't have to work as hard or as long when on PEDs and guys don't hit that plateau when on PEDs. He was a guy who didn't always play hard. If he would have spent the time working hard instead of taking female hormones, he could have been a lot better :0

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    That's cute. Didn't take the ACT, actually, the SAT is much more prominent here in the South.

    I would venture to say that Manny Ramirez probably worked a lot harder at his trade than either of us ever did. I don't know you, or what you've done with your life, but I doubt you've reached the elite level of anything that he has in regards to hitting.

    So, sorry if I chuckle when you call him lazy. I don't know how much better you think he could have been had he devoted the time it took for him to actually take these drugs to working hard, but there's about 8 guys in history with better numbers than him (and most of them played before I was alive).

    You don't have to think he's a great guy (I don't), but to call him lazy seems silly to me.

    -Webster

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    This isn't about me. Manny is a better hitter then I am. I got the most out of my natural ability and did it the right way. I think it is foolish of u to make that comparison. If you cheat to avoid doing the work. That makes u lazy!! He was a great hitter. No problem saying that. Take care Webster

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    To say Ramirez didn't work at hitting is absurd. He worked very hard at it. Steroids are no short cut when it comes to the ability to hit, he earned that part himself. Steroids may add strength and maybe give players the ability to recover more quickly, but it does not add to their skill as hitters.

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I wasn't comparing your hitting skills to Manny's. I was comparing whatever you've devoted your life to to Manny's hitting skills. I was saying he got tremendously more out of his natural ability than you (and me, for that matter). He didn't cheat to avoid doing the work, he cheated WHILE doing the work. You're right, we will never know how good he would have been without the PEDs, but the approach doesn't change with PED use, and that's what he was hired to share.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Gotcha. I think the answer in that case is that Manny has publicly admitted, accepted, and tried to move on from his mistakes, while Sosa will not own up to what he did, apologize, and move on. I think that is what the ownership and fanbase are waiting for before Sammy is welcomed back. But that's just speculation by me.

  • In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    I just want to see one of the best cub players of my generation and his team have a good relationship. Just don't think on that responsibility falls on Sammy.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I want to see Sammy back also. I'm a relatively young Cub fan and he's a big reason why I'm a fan in the first place. That was the first Cub jersey I had and he hit a HR in my first game at the park. However my view is that I Really want him to apologize and ask for the ownership and fan forgiveness so that can happen. What I'm not hoping for is for the ownership to all of the sudden welcome him back out of no where with no answers to why they hadn't before now. It would still leave an awkwardness and an elephant in the room so to speak about his PED usage and abandoning the team in his last appearance.

    Am I ready to forgive him? Absolutely. I think almost all Cub fans are. But he can't be forgiven and welcomed back until he admits and asks for it. That's my take anyways, and I think that's what ownership has made clear to him, but apologizing is tough when you get away with what you did wrong.

  • In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    I get what you are saying. Just wish the 2 sides could get it done. I don't think it can be all on Sammy

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    In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    Very well said nmu'...
    Manny: .996 OPS, 18.5% K, 13.6% BB, .418 wOBA, 153 wRC+
    Sammy: .878 OPS, 23.3% K, 9.4% BB, .370 wOBA, 124 wRC+

    THEY ARE NOT COMPARABLE OFFENSIVE PLAYERS PEOPLE!

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    i think manny's approach is more in line with what Theo is looking for. Manny was a great "hitter" and he grinded out at bats and took walks.. Sosa was a great slugger - wouldnt say working counts and "taking walks" was one of his trademarks. Bringing this up as another slight to Sosa is the media trying to "Make" another story out of nothing,,AGAIN.

  • In reply to CubfanInUT:

    I don't care about the coaching position. As I said if cubs r gonna reach out to a guy like Manny. Then they should try to make peace with Sammy.

  • In reply to CubfanInUT:

    McGwire was power hitter tho ;)

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    did the cubs hire him too?

  • In reply to CubfanInUT:

    U said Sammy couldn't b hitting coach cause he was power hitter but McGwire has done fine with cards and dodgers. But as I said it isn't about who should b coaching and more about who means more to this cub organization.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    no, I didnt. I said manny fits what Theo wants in hitters. and who means more to organization is based off who's opinion? you, some fan? or to Theo, who actually runs the team?

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Well Manny has shown remorse stating that wants to give back. Sosa has not.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Remorse. Bingo.

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    What does Sosa have to coach?

  • In reply to Giffmo:

    I don't care about Sammy coaching. I care about Sammy being welcomed back and apart of future. If the reached out to manny why not Sammy. That is all I care about. I like bringing ex players to create a family organization.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Yep, nothing says family like growth hormones and corked bats. First of all, your point is stupid and has nothing to do with Manny being hired as a minor league hitting coach. Secondly, Sosa isn't coming back anytime soon, because every time he is interviewed in the states he is asked about PED's, Growth Hormone, and Corked bats, which is a PR nightmare for him, and also affects his hero status back home in the D.R. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Cubs organization "reaching out" to him, he can't come back because then he would have to answer questions, but as long as he keeps denying everything and everyone knows he is lying, their is no Sammy coming back to baseball...not for the Cubs, not for any MLB organization. Manny can come back because he admitted to what he did, and apologized. He has also went out of his way to make this a selfless thing, where it's mainly about him teaching younger players, not for him to get any kind of spotlight himself. Sammy is about Sammy, and his entourage.

  • In reply to Ghost Dawg:

    Manny only admitted his PED use after being caught. Much like Ryan Braun. You're backed into a wall. You're forced to admit it and apologize.

    He wouldn't have admitted anything if he didn't fail tests.

  • In reply to Esco:

    I never said Manny was an angel. I said he has admitted it (regardless of why) and now he can move on. Sammy can't move on because he hasn't admitted yet, and as you say, why would he when he never got caught. It's a double-edged sword for Sammy, and it might be unfair, but it's the reality of the situation.

  • In reply to Ghost Dawg:

    No one accused you of calling Manny an angel, don't be so offended.

    So admitting steroid use is going to get Sammy back in good graces with the organization?

    Yep...sounds logical.

  • In reply to Esco:

    Sosa got caught with a corked bat. Has he apologized for that?

  • In reply to Richard Beckman:

    I'm not an encyclopedia of Sammy Sosa history. Try google.

  • In reply to Ghost Dawg:

    Cubs haven't had a star player come back to help from Maddox to Ryno. That would be nice. U r talking about a guy who took female hormones to cover up being caught. Firstly your point is stupid because you think manny being a great hitter means a great coach. I believe both parties need to give a little. But to say manny has changed and Sammy hasn't is crazy. Also to say this isn't drawing attention for manny is stupid a thought.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I believe Maddux was a consultant of some sorts. And Ryno was a minor league manager for the organization.

  • In reply to Esco:

    Both cases are past. Nobody currently.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    They havent-Fergie Jenkins, Kerry Wood, Ted Lilly, Billy Williams, Ron Santo. Maddux did work in the front office for a period of time. Sammy and Palmiero BOTH wont admit to being cheaters, so no one hires them.

  • In reply to mutant beast:

    So if Sammy and Palmiero admit
    they become more qualified for the position?
    I would like to have grace, Ryno, Maddox and wood. working with r guys on the field.

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    They reached out to Manny BECAUSE they wanted him to coach. Period.

    Manny is a better hitter than Sosa by several orders of magnitude. He's one of the all time great hitters. They want him to spread what he knows.

    I couldn't care less about Sammy and really don't care too much about Manny and his PED past either. He's a coach. And as long as he does that well I think its a smart move.

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    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Mr Ricketts has said that Sammy has some work to do before he will be welcomed back into the organization. Manny on the other hand has come clean and apologized on several occasions about his past PED use. Plus Sammy is not the type of hitter you'd want teaching young prospects.

  • In reply to Betty Amie:

    I don't care about coaching. Not my point. It just can't all be in Sammy.

  • My belief is there are a lot of good players that made a mistake that didn't get caught using PODs as well as Manny. Let it go. He wasn't brought in to teach the kids how to use steroids he's there to teach them to hit.

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    Excited to see him in Des Moines! Hey Mauricio, any idea when he debuts?

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    I'm not very active on Twitter, but a friend of mine told me that Baez and Ramirez tweet back and forth somewhat regularly. So, I guess they already have a relationship.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    The Des Moines broadcasters basically said the same thing... That Baez was excited to have Many here and they've met before. Also He is Javy's favorite player.

  • I don't see this lasting long. The me first diva is going to get tired of riding the busses and toiling with the other minor leaguers. I could see him get mad and leave when he doesn't get as much playing time as he wants or something along those lines.

    I say he's out before the all-star break.

  • John......never ever said he never worked at it but we will never know how good he really was. What he did was opinion of being lazy and he had many showings of not playing hard. Fact got caught several times and tried to cover it up with estrogen. You can love the move but it seem desperate attempt on both sides. But since it was Theo's plan, lets all drink it up. I'd rather have manny as a player but as a coach??????

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I don't think you'll find anyone in the industry who doesn't believe Ramirez wasn't one of the best hitters of our era. And why wouldn't you give someone who understands the art of hitting as well as he does a chance to share that knowledge with young players?

    We as fans are not in the same position to judge Manny's ability to coach as this front office is. All we have is bits and pieces of information. We don't know the man, we don't know his abilities as a teacher (which are reputed to be very good by those who actually know him).

    To judge him based on such limited info, then pretend to know more than the front office about the player? Then accuse those who trust the front offices judgment as "drinking it up" while believing that the average fan who reads 2nd or 3rd hand info is in a better position to make that judgment? Sorry, but I will trust Theo's judgement more than the average joe who gets his info 2nd and 3rd hand and then jumps to an unsupported conclusion that steroid use = bad coach. Are you sure it's everyone else who's been drinking?

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I really don't understand how you see this move as something "desperate". What indicates that to you? Are you to the point that you don't believe anything the organization says? And another thing, you keep saying that the organization is as responsible for Sosa not being back as is Sosa. How do you draw that conclusion? Reach out to him? That's what would look "desperate" to me. Begging him to right himself with the Cubs is not something I would ever want to see. That attitude begs of the same old crap I keep hearing across America - that it's the corporation that has the problem, not the individual. Are we ever going to get back to the individual being responsible for himself?

  • In reply to cubs1969:

    I never said Organization is to blame. I said they need to work it out. Sammy has to do things too. But the last few cub names are gone. Mark grace, Ryno, Maddox and now Ryno. I think Sammy and theo have big egos. And that is problem. I am blaming manny for it. And
    U think it is wrong. Instead if serving my suspension I'll just retire. Another lazy move. I have said the very few good moves we have made but it was been more bad moves.

  • In reply to cubs1969:

    I think unfortunately a lot of people are to the point where they don't believe anything the organization has said. I don't really get why, this whole thing has gone according to plan. First of all Theo never gave an exact timeline, the "when they will compete" timeline has been created by the media. The renovation hasn't gone to plan, but not for lack of trying. I'm frankly getting sick of all the whining and nitpicking about cakes and murals and mascots. If you don't like it don't go to the games.

  • In reply to jorel1114:

    It is fans like you that have accepted this terrible current play. One can always say just wait next yr it will be better. I am to the point I want to see a difference on the big stage. And if we trade shark and hammels it will get worse. Not for a lack of trying. That is a bs statement. We were terrible last year. Whst improvements did we make to help the team this year. Nothing. That is a lack of trying.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Fans here accept the record because they are smart enough to understand that there is a larger process in play here. If you do not understand it, then you are at the wrong site. We do deeper, thoughtful analysis -- we don't oversimplify and overreact. You should consider whether that is something you are interested in reading because I guarantee you it will not change.

    I deleted one of your comments earlier because it violated commenting policy. You reposted it. I have deleted it again. Hint: Do not repost

    You can disagree, you can pretend what your saying is the most intelligent thing ever said, you can also pretend your smarter and in a better position to judge Manny than Theo Epstein, but trolling the authors or other commenters is against policy.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Comment deleted

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I am fine with disagreeing. You'll notice there are others who feel the way you do on this and I have no issue with it. You'll also notice that I have left all of your non-trolling comments up.

    Trolling, bowever, is against policy. Maturity means knowing the difference.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    The timeline for winning keeps getting pushed back. Since 2014 has been a punt and 2015 is looking like a year when the rookies get their feet wet, 2016 is the new "it" year. No one expected a quick fix but c'mon the 2nd worst record in baseball a quarter of the way through Year 3.

    The title of this says it all.

    http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011/06/the-cubs-should-build-to-win-for-2013/

  • In reply to Live and Learn:

    i personally dont care.. rushing it would be a bigger mistake imho

  • In reply to Live and Learn:

    A post/title (from 2011) which you willfully took out of context.

  • In reply to Live and Learn:

    That post was written by Theo? Because he's really the only one who might be able to say when they'd be ready to win. And I don't think he's ever put a date on it.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    No one who knows anything about baseball denies that the Cubs have made huge strides in rebuilding the organization since Theo's arrival. What he hasn't done is trade away the team's future to put the next SAM-ME on the field to provide excitement for those that can't wait for the farm system to produce. Never mind that the Cubs accomplished nothing with His Sammyness in the lineup - why, he hit lots of homers!

    Put me in with those who "always say that next year will be better." Why? Because it will. And the year after that will be even better. In fact, I'm looking for about a decade of Cubs dominance in the NL Central, with a few WS appearances thrown in for good measure. It'll happen because Theo didn't listen to the crybabies who demanded that he trade away prospects and obligate the team to boat-anchor free agent contracts in order to win a few more games, finish 3rd and keep the impatient, knowledge-challenged fans from complaining.

  • In reply to Cliff1969:

    I hope you are right. What I don't get is...some fans don't want a 10-12 more wins to feel like that is improvement but are the first to throw out run differential and sabermetrics wins and loses. Bottom line is worse record in baseball stat. And if we unload shark and Hammel it will get worse.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    We traded for Olt, Ramiriz, Grimm, Strop, Arrieta within the last year; we signed Hammel, Veras, Wright, Bonifacia, Kalish and Ruggsiano. Now everything hasn't worked out as we would have liked but you can't say they did nothing.

    When Theo came in he said he was going to error on long term over the short term. He is doing what he said he would.

  • In reply to John57:

    Most of his moves have been sideways move. Nothing to fix the weakness. So in a sense he hasn't done anything to help with that. Look at the list you gave me. Thanks for making my point for me.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    I didn't make your point for you. You are confusing trying with getting results. The Cubs did not produce the results you (and myself) were hoping for but they did try. Of course the FO did this by design. They knew it was unlikely to get great results the last few years. Doing this would get us high draft picks to obtain the impact prospects they think are absolutely necessary to turn the team around for a sustained period of time. And on that front they have been very successful. They know exactly what they want and how to get it. Sit back and enjoy the plan they are executing. It will bear fruit.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    First of all, fans like me can't help the attendance numbers, which have declined steadily as they've gotten worse. So you're "side" is winning there. The team is losing so fans aren't going, fair enough, I can accept that and even agree with it.

    As for the product on the field, while their record hasn't approved, their run differential is much better, Rizzo and Castro have clearly rebounded, Castillo continues to improve, the starting pitching has been excellent and the young bullpen arms have come along. Look past wins and losses. For starters you don't want a mediocre team and that's all the Cubs would be even if they had added Tanaka or Cano or whatever other player you think they should add. The Cubs as a mediocre team is pointless. You need bad teams to get top picks, to bring impactful, young players to your team.

    This team was never going to be a quick fix, we knew that going in to this rebuild.

  • You're bleating nonsense - sorry, but you are. You've got your mind set to believe his steroid use will translate to his coaching and mentoring. Now you're taking the moment to further rake on the FO. How about letting this take shape before such harsh judging? You have no idea what Ramirez's intentions are, nor the sincerity of Theo in making this hire, yet you have it all pegged before he even dons the uniform.

  • In reply to cubs1969:

    I do have it pegged. And if I am wrong. I will admit it. I have no
    Problem doing that. But I am not a type of person who says nothing then when it goes south start complaining about it. I have my opinion and state it, just as you do. And if I am right r you willing to acknowledge that? I am staying why. Not nonsense cause different from you. I believe this is a bad move. I never watched manny in his prime and thought what a great coach he can be

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Different than me? Sorry, that doesn't cut it. Where did I say that this is going to be a great move? I'm willing to see what happens before making a judgment. I can't predict the future any more than you can, but here you are doing just that by dismissing the move out of hand. To me, it's worth a shot and if it indeed goes south, I won't be complaining about the move whether you think so or not. Will I acknowledge you being correct if it does? NO. I would if I was here arguing the opposite of you, but I'm not.

  • In reply to cubs1969:

    Never said great move. Way to throw that in there. Glad you have questions about the move. I just don't see how this move is gonna help.

  • Theo's record includes building a team/farm system that has won 3 World Series in the last 10 years. I trust his judgement on this one. What does your record include?

  • In reply to John57:

    I said with the CUBS. My record is the same as yours.

  • In reply to John57:

    I said with the CUBS. My record
    Is the same as yours.

  • "He had the supernatural ability to place the barrel on the ball..."

    Supernatural? I don't think so.

  • I like this move, that they are willing to think outside the box a bit in terms of improving player development. You have to know that the FO realized there would be some flak coming in regarding Ramirez' hire, and did it anyway because they thought in the long run it would help the organization. I agree, Manny is going to help out some players down there in Iowa.

    The complaining about the PED use is a little hypocritical to me. That whole era is to blame for the proliferation and tolerance of PEDs throughout the league. Many coaches and managers, and even the commissioners office, knew what was going on and looked the other way. It took a congressional investigation to clean up the sport.

    Players were practically encouraged to cheat during that time, probably to bring back the fans what had left after the MLB strike.

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