Cubs scouting Blue Jays prospect Marcus Stroman -- and the two teams match up well for a trade

Cubs scouting Blue Jays prospect Marcus Stroman -- and the two teams match up well for a trade

The Cubs are at a standstill with the Jeff Samardzija talks and as much as they like him, he has little worth to a rebuilding team on what amounts to a 2 year deal.

On the other hand, a team like the Blue Jays could have a lot of use for him.  For the first time in recent memory, the AL East is up for grabs.  All 5 teams have a negative run differential with the first place Yankees being among the worst at -13.  3 games separate first and last place.  The Yankees have an overpaid, overrated roster, the Red Sox free agent foray appears to have a one year shelf life, the Rays seem to be lacking their usual magic, and the Orioles are decent but certainly beatable.

The Blue Jays are right there in the thick of it.  They lack a starter and are considering recalling Marcus Stroman -- but it seems the Cubs were there scouting his last start.  We know the Jays have always liked Samardzija and his early season performance only seems to solidify that he has become an established starter with the kind of stuff that can play in any division, especially in this watered down AL East.

The Cubs reportedly asked for both top pitching prospects this past offseason- Stroman and Aaron Sanchez-- and were rebuffed.

But could the deal be expanded?

The Jays have had more problems than being one starter short.  Their bullpen has been a disaster and their 2nd base position makes the Cubs look like they're starting all-stars.   They just called up Chris Getz to fill the position after Ryan Goins struggled mightily.

The Cubs have some potential pieces to sweeten the deal.  I'm not sure the Jays want another crack at Emilio Bonifacio, who struggled terribly with them last year in what was  arguably the worst 1/2 season of his career.  The Jays also waived Luis Valbuena, whom the Cubs picked up on waivers and has put up a .377 OBP this season.  He'd probably be starting for them now at 2B, at least against RHP.  Then, of course, there is Darwin Barney who may not seem like much right now but Getz is a replacement level player and Barney could at least offer Gold Glove caliber defense with similar offense.  He's also had an improved approach (13.5% walk rate) which could show dividends with regular ABs.

As for the bullpen the Cubs have a lot of up and coming arms, the first of which, Neil Ramirez, just performed superbly in a high leverage role.  Hector Rondon has taken over the closer role and Grimm has been one of the 8th inning guys.  Could the Cubs afford to part with Pedro Strop or rehabbing closer Jose Veras?  Wesley Wright is wresting the lefty set up role from the usually steady James Russell.   Could either player interest the Jays?

The Cubs also have young power arms on the way that can fill in.  Brian Schlitter is back and so is lefty Zac Rosscup.  Blake Parker is dominating at Iowa and would almost certainly be recalled in the event of a trade.  Hard-throwing RHPs Marcus Hatley and Alberto Cabrera are pitching well enough to get a shot and further down the line the Cubs have Armando Rivero and Arodys Vizcaino, who are the most talented duo mentioned here.  The Cubs also have lefty starters Chris Rusin, Tsuyoshi Wada, and Eric Jokisch who could replace Samardzija in the rotation or could be tried in the bullpen as well,  Another LHP, Hunter Cervenka, has been very effective in AA as a reliever.  Kyle Hendricks would be another candidate to replace Samardzija in addition to any pitchers they may get from the Jays.  Though Samardzija would be a huge loss, I don't think the Cubs would have any trouble replacing veterans in the bullpen or 2B -- and they have multiple options to fill Samardzija's spot and take his innings until they can find a pitcher who can replace him long term at the top of their rotation.

As for what the Cubs would want, it's very obvious -- young pitching -- and the Jays have plenty of that even beyond Stroman and Sanchez.  Lower level SPs Alberto Tirado and Daniel Norris (L), also standout as pitchers with high end potential.  MLB ready Sean Nolin has a lower ceiling (#4 starter) but is MLB ready and excelling in AAA (1.96 ERA, 3.30 FIP).  While those losses would be painful for the Jays, we should remember that they can replace one high level prospect with the 1st round pick they'll get if they lose Samardzija to free agency.  It's pretty safe to say that the ultra-competitive Samardzija will not sign with one of the worst 10 teams in baseball.

There is a lot of flexibility to make a deal here.  The two teams match up extremely well.  The Cubs could get their young pitching prospects they crave and the Jays could shore up their rotation, bullpen, and second base while also getting a likely 1st round pick.  The AL East is there for the taking and the Jays have a short window to win now.

A deal between the two teams just makes too much sense right now.

 

 

 

Filed under: Uncategorized

Comments

Leave a comment
  • I wish we could sign Jeff to a fair deal for both sides but if we can't, a trade with Toronto may not be bad. They do have the pitching prospects that Theo covets.

  • In reply to John57:

    We are not really sure who Theo covets or if the players are really worthwhile trading Shark for. Stroman throws in the low 90s with good movement: however, he is only averaging barely 5 innings per start in the minors; IMO he is not major league ready. Last year he averaged 4+ innings per start. He does not appear to have the arm strength to be a starter at the major league level. He likely would be a bullpen killer. Sanchez has a fine arm but he has control issues and he doesn't get many innings in either and is years away. Sean Nolin is a steady pitcher, a soft-tosser like several that we already have but has been more consistent. I don't really see a matchup for Shark and the Blue Jays, who are artificially held up by a couple of mid 30's big boppers, should really be rebuilding like us.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to krn99:

    Minor league games usually have more frequent pitcher changes than the Majors.

    It doesn't necessarily mean a pitcher can't handle more innings, it's a function if having players that need reps and game experience.

  • awesome. Love to see Cubs move Barney and bring up Chris Valaika.

  • In reply to wastrel:

    I'd like to see Valaika get a shot.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Agreed.

  • Regarding dividends Barney might be expected to show with regular at bats, it is worth noting that he had a good spring and doesn't strike out much. But what does one make of his weirdly low BABIP—bad luck or weak contact?

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to BudMan:

    From the old "eyeball test", it certainly seemed like bad luck early in the year. He was putting together great ABs and hitting the ball on the screws right at people. Then, he seemed to get a little frustrated, and lose patience, and I began to see more weak pop-ups and grounders.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Matt McNear:

    I agree Matt, but one has to wonder, as his BABIP has been below league average every year. That can't be luck.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    No, it can't. I was only referring to the small sample size of the first few weeks this season, where he seemed, to me, to be very focused and making hard contact. Certainly not suggesting that's the "real Barney".

  • It's pretty obvious Jeff and the Cubs won't be coming to an agreement anytime before the deadline, so might as well deal him while the dealin is good. I agree, the Jays match up perfectly with all of their woes you mentioned. I would be thrilled if they could get both Stroman and Sanchez if they threw in Barney, Valbuena and/or a BP arm, but for some reason I still feel like that's unlikely. Do you think the Jays would be willing to give up both top end SP prospects, even with another piece or two added to Jeff in any deal? I feel like getting one of those two, and maybe two of those low level, high potential/risk pitchers you mentioned would be more likely. Am I completely underestimating the value of this potential deal here?

  • doesn't look like Jeff is going to sign a contract and is going to test free agency. So why don't we try again now get the best all weekend and try to sign in free agency. We will probably have the same shot that we would have if he was still a cub but we would be losing the Compensatory pick if he bolts. I would rather have a major league ready to off the rotation arm than that. sign me up for the trade, I'm already sick of all the talking just want something to happen.

  • I think I may be developing unreasonable expectations in the value of Samardzija with his performance so far this season. I am almost to the point of believing that he may be worth more than Sanchez and Stroman. Is it crazy to demand a third or even forth pitching prospect for him? Maybe throw in Barney and outfielder for good measure?

  • If the Cubs are scouting Stroman then there's definitely interest on both sides and a trade for him and Nolin could get a deal done with Shark. It behooves the Cubs & Jays to do something soon for the best of both of teams, and if we could send them Barney, Schierholtz, and/or Russell for other prospects that would be even better.

  • I think it's too early for Toronto to panic and over-pay and that is exactly what Epstoyer has been holding out for.

  • In reply to HoosierDaddy:

    How long should they wait before they panic?

  • In reply to HoosierDaddy:

    I don't think Toronto is panicking. They see a wide-open East and would be correct in thinking that the addition of a strong starter could give them the push to stick around down the stretch. They are all-in with their free agent moves over the last couple of years and you can count on at least one of those teams to heat up, so making an early move is exactly what they should be doing.

  • As much as I like Samardzija for his ever-elusive 'potential' - and the fact that he does appear to be pitching more than throwing this season - if they don't think they can sign Samardzija to a decent extension, the almost have to move him.

    IF by moving Samardzija (along with Barney or Valbuena and a RP or two) the Cubs can land somebody with the potential to be a TOR guy like Stroman and can snag a high ceiling lower-level pitching prospect or two,.... Management should make the move.

  • I don't think Barney or Schierholtz adds anything to the deal.

    These guys are backups on one of the worst offenses in baseball.

    If they're looking for a 2B you better believe they'll ask for Alcantara.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    Jays are in win now, they like Goins long term at 2B, they won't ask for another guy who isn't ready in Alcantara - yet will increase the Cubs asking price dramatically when the price is already high. It doesn't make sense.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Goins is Barney. Goins is not their long term 2B. He's just their excellent defender that they hoped wouldn't embarrass himself at the plate. Unfortunately he has been embarrassing himself at the plate, all too similar to Barney. I can't imagine Barney being any sort of selling feature.

    Other players the Cubs might have been keeping an eye on at their AAA roster are Gose and Pillar. Don't really have spots in Toronto at this time.

    I find it extremely unlikely that the Cubs would be able to get Stroman and Sanchez. But a package of 1 of them + Pillar/Gose + Norris would be a pretty solid return.

  • In reply to SenatorMendoza:

    Barney is just a fill in, not a focal point, If they just wanted a defender who can hold his own at the plate, why wouldn't they want Barney? He won't add much to the cost and his defense alone makes him an upgrade.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Can Barney really hold his own at the plate? Any more so than Goins? I'm thinking if I were the Jays, I'd be trying to get Vogelbach thrown in. I wouldn't touch Barney with a ten foot pole. Though if I were the Cubs, Barney would have been put out to pasture last year.

  • In reply to SenatorMendoza:

    He has a track record of doing so.

  • In reply to SenatorMendoza:

    Sardzija and Vogelbach for Stroman, Sanchez and Gose?

    I wouldn't be quick to turn that down.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    You could be in win now and still look to the future.

    Alcantara could move back to SS. He could even play CF with the right amount of practice.

    Adding good players to your team always makes sense.

    Darwin Barney was undoubtedly one of the three worst hitters in baseball that was a everyday player last year, arguably the worst.

    He's Tony Campana, people will hype him up while he's here but realize the trash he is when he's gone.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    Barney is what he is -- a great defender and fringe big leaguer as a hitter. The defense, though, is so good that he's been a 2 WAR player in the past. A team with a good offense can certainly afford to carry such a player.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Yeah, Tony Campana 2.0

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    Campana couldn't play defense and while Barney can't hit, he can hit better than Campana. One can start for some teams, one is a bench player at best. Not a good comparison nomatter how many times you say it.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    One tool.

    Speed for Campana.
    Defense for Barney.

    They each have 0 other tools. That's the comparison.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    If the Cardinals can win a World Series with Theriot starting, I bet a team can win with Barney.

  • In reply to Richard Beckman:

    Agreed. Offense is not the Jays problem.

  • In reply to Richard Beckman:

    Too bad for the Jays that they don't have the talent the Cardinals did, so their margin for error across the diamond is much smaller.

    Plus Theriot hit .271 that year, that's around league average. Barney is a terrible offense player. So it's not a fair comparison.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    Theriot was a 0.4 WAR player, that's basically replacement level. Barney was a 2 win player that same year, which is a fringe starter.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    The Jays would be getting 2014 Barney the one who lost his starting job and struggling.

    They aren't getting 2.0 WAR Barney. He has regressed offensively AND defensively since then.

    2.0 WAR Barney would be starting on the Cubs right now. He's not that player anymore.

  • They really do match up well. Maybe trade talks will pick up here in a few weeks

  • In reply to Javier Bryant:

    Agreed. I don't expect a trade now but wouldn't be surprised if it happened before deadline.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Maybe, John, but there is a strong possability others might come into play also. Take the Os for instance. Bundy or Gausmann along with one of two other b/c types for Spellceck? Id take either Bundy or Gausmann over Stroman 7 days a week.

  • I would be fine to get two SP prospects in return for Shark/Strop/Barney or Valbuena.

    Stroman can take Sharks spot in the rotation and anyone of Valaika, Watkins or Alcantara can take the Barney/Valbuena spot. Anyone number of young arms can take the Strop spot.

    Not only do these teams line up in terms of what each team needs/has, the Cubs have depth at 2B and RP to the point that we would feel no impact in trading the likes of Barney/Valbuena/Strop/Wright/Veras etc.

    Nice spot to be in.

  • fb_avatar

    No Sanchez, no deal!

  • How about Cubs look to move Hammel to the Jays instead of Shark?

    Would the Jays do Hammel for Norris straight up? Jays keep their top prospect, get a cheap guy they could choose to re-sign or even offer a QO?

    Maybe a good match up as well.

  • In reply to IrwinFletcher:

    I doubt the Jays would do that deal. If I were the Cubs, I'd jump all over that.

  • In reply to IrwinFletcher:

    Contracts. Spellcheck isnt a FA yet. Hammel would be a rental.

  • Jeff, Barney and another player/prospect for the best pitching
    prospects we can get and want

  • fb_avatar

    I understand the need to get value if they sign him to a deal, but this is very frustrating. I wish they'd at least offer Jeff some Homer Bailey money. Isn't that a fair comp?

    Pitchers like him that are not tied to compensation are rarely available on the open market.

  • In reply to Phil James:

    11-14 million per year for a .500 pitcher is not worth it to the Cubs

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    Samardzija is absolutely better than a .500 pitcher

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    He is only a .500 pitcher because he plays for the Cubs vaunted offense!

    If he was on a winning team he would be putting up 17-19 wins a season.

  • In reply to Phil James:

    That Homer Bailey deal was an awful deal by the Reds. If Samardzija and others in his range are using that as a benchmark, they're going to be very disappointed and almost all of them are going to hit the FA market.

  • Trade Jeff while his value is very high

  • wonder how much of a concern Stroman's 5'9" height is a concern

    I think Shark+Barney+ one of our left handed hitters not named Rizzo for Stroman, Norris, and Jimenez plus whatever filler ( hell take Gose ) is fair.

  • fb_avatar

    I'm with Mike. No Sanchez, no deal IMO.

    Stroman, while good, is not a headliner for me. More of a good second piece.

  • Stroman just gets people out, I could care less if he was the height of Wee Man, just gets people out and has explosive stuff . I would be happy with Stroman and Norris/ Nolin type deal , if they can weasel Sanchez too then bonus but ship Shark out yesterday , he isn't going to sign and the extra starts the Jays can get are a bonus to them no need to wait till deadline if return is solid

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    Agreed on all counts. Not a lot of 5'9" pitchers who can be big league SPs, but I think Stroman is one of them.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    Exactly two, since 1960, have logged more than 30 MLB starts (Tom Phoebus and Tom Gordon). That's according to this scouting report I found: https://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/what-to-expect-blue-jays-rhp-marcus-stroman/, though Fangraphs lists Gordon at 5'10". Regardless, Phoebus logged three seasons in which he pitched more than 200 innings, and Gordon had one. I can't pretend to have followed Stroman's career too closely but I don't like those odds. Of course, I've always been higher on Samardzija than most, but I don't see this guy as a headliner.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    It's a fair point.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    You also have to remember where both Phoebus and Gordon ended ujp. Niether of them lasted as a starter. Oddly, both ended up with the Cubs as closers at one point in there careers.

  • I'm getting the feeling Shark isn't going anywhere. Pressure building to start to win so he may have the most value in a Cubs uni in 2015.

  • In reply to TheMightyGin:

    I think Shark may have more value to the Cubs in 2015-2016 than trading him, but unlike you, I feel the contrary, I feel like the situation is getting tense and Shark showed a lot of frustration in his last game... Plus the Garza story... I feel like Samardzija actually wants out and wants to play for a contender.

  • I would hate to see Jeff leave, but I'm getting the vibe that he does not want to stay with the team... So, if that's the case, then I'd like to see the Cubs make it happen and get Stroman and Sanchez, even if that means including Strop or Russell in the deal.

  • fb_avatar

    Off to Jime'Z in Roscoe to watch the game.
    Go Cubs!

  • Sanchez and Stroman
    for
    Samardzija, Barney, and Russell

    Get it done! Throw whatever else in you have to. Valbuena, Parker, Wright, Schlitter, Bonifacio, or ALL.

  • I must admit Stroman's size has me seriously worried about his durability long term. Granted his dad is build like tank, even though he's probably 5'9 too.
    The fact Samardzija isn't too interested in an extension, only makes me want him more. He must have 100% confidence in his ability to hold up over the next 2 seasons.

  • I don't see a trade happening unless a team gets REALLY desperate at the trade deadline-either this year or next. The trending mindset lately seems to be most teams overvaluing or at least not willing to give up TOR pitching prospects. Like with Garza, there is no hurry to trade Samardzija. A lot can happen between now and the end of the 2015 season. Maybe the Cubs pick up a near TOR pitcher this coming offseason, along with another piece or two. Some development by our core and near ready prospects and maybe a Samardzija extension happens. I'm good with keeping him as long as we can.

  • Moving Samardjhia seems inevitable, for reasons I don't get. I expect him to wind up a big time closer someplace. barney is a good kid , but not good enough to be an every day 2 hitter, which is what we really need.

  • I t would be nice to know what kind of coin the Cubs have offered Shark, and what Shark thinks he deserves, before we totally write- off the chances of his staying with the Cubs.

    We are assuming the Cubs are offering him 4/40 or 5/50 type deals and also maybe assuming he thinks he is worth 4/80 pr 5/100 in any deal. Until we know for certain, it is hard to just cast him aside for unproven MiL talent.

    Stroman is very talented, no doubt, but on the flip side, there aren't too many pitchers who are 5'8" dominating the pitching ranks of major League Baseball right now.

    The Cubs really have to do their due diligence right now and weigh the cost of locking up good pitching vs. the cost of signing a similar pitcher on the FA market for a ton more dollars.

  • fb_avatar

    This is where it hurts that Jackson is not off to a good start. If he were, he would be perfect for a blockbuster deal to get Stroman and Sanchez.

    I see Stroman is another one of those cases where height (in this case) or slight build (as is the case with Edwards) might be the one thing that holds him back. Sanchez, however appears to have good size at 6-4.

    As unlikely as it is that the Jays would deal both of these guys, I'd give them a win-now offer of Samardzija, Hammel, Ramirez, Rondon and Valbuena. Or something like that. Maybe you get back one more guy from their system that you like.

    You do this and you set your sights on 2015 as a year to strive for .500 and 2016 to compete for the playoffs. And this almost ensures another top-level draft pick next June.

  • In reply to Gregory Shriver:

    You are offering way way way too much. Glad you are not running the show.

  • I don't think the Jays will include both Sanchez and Stroman. That being said, I'd be more than happy with a deal like:

    Sanchez, Nolin, Norris and DeJong

    for

    Shark, Valbuena and Wright

    I doubt the Jays are willing to give that much up, but those are 4 good to very good pitching prospects the Cubs would be getting back.

  • I much prefer Sanchez to Stroman, even knowing that Stroman could replace Shark's spot in the rotation tomorrow, and Sanchez is likely ready in 2015 if all goes well.

  • Imo, trading shark is a win win only if the FO signs a TOR FA this offseason. Then we have the prospects and an ace. Isn't that the whole idea about going in to buy mode?
    It also would help entice FA's by getting some of the kids up asap to show the future potential. I think that along with the selling points inherent to winning in Chicago make it a more preferred destination then some may think.

  • I'm curious about the Jays, their payroll must be pretty close to maxed. They apparently had asked Bautista to defer some money to try to bring in Santana in the off season. I wonder if there would be more at stake in a potential trade. On top of that, Anthopolous has brokered some pretty ridiculous trades. Off the ML roster I wonder if Rasmus or Lawrie would be on the table. Especially if we're talking about a monster trade. Ie. Castro or Rizzo would make a lot of sense. Granted they make a lot of sense for the Cubs.

  • I always think of this article when mock trades come up.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22661

    It's always the persons team getting a huge steal and not giving up equal value.

    Like I remember Arietta/Volgelbach was an acceptable trade for Gonzalez for several people on here. And to get Stanton it was Soler and a couple minor pieces.

    Id have to think the Cubs offered Shark and the Jays said no to Sanchez/Stroman. Minor pieces like Valbuena/Schierholtz/Barney aren't going to tip the scales. As a 3rd guy, sure, but not as a 2nd guy.

    Either the Cubs have to add a significant 2nd guy, or ask for less back.

    Teams aren't going to window shop at a Top 3 farm system and not demand one of them to be in a trade.

    This is what Jays fans thought of getting Shark this off-season.

    http://jaysjournal.com/2013/11/23/mlb-trade-rumors-blue-jays-putting-together-package-for-jeff-samardzija/

    They didn't want to give up Sanchez OR Stroman, it's the Toronto version of the game, the real answer lies in the middle, far away from the two sides of the spectrum.

  • fb_avatar

    John, is Stroman's size anything to be concerned about?

  • In reply to Ray:

    Yes. He's a strong kid, and I think he'll be durable and he makes up for some of the lack of height by pitching with good leverage, but as Matt mentioned history is not on the side of a 5'9" pitcher.

  • Jays have no depth/power on their OF bench, so despite how anyone might feel about Schierholtz, he does have strong value in a bench role on a team trying to nudge its way toward contention. Including Barney and Schierholtz in a Samardzija deal is not going to hurt the deal, it's going to help the deal, and possibly nudge us toward getting the package we want. Russell has good value - everyone needs a left arm, especially a guy who is not just a loogy, a guy who has performed in the 7th and 8th inning admirably.

    There are other ideas too - three way trades. Get the Dodgers involved somehow, move some cash around, Zach Lee's name gets thrown around, Cubs land Eithier along with a couple of strong pitching prospects, and somebody else has to pay part of his salary.

  • fb_avatar

    One thing to keep in mind in any trade scenario is the other team's 40-man roster. They have to clear as many spaces as players we send them. This often makes 2 or 3 major league player trades unlikely. Anybody we throw in, like Nate Schierholz, who would mostly be throw-in at this stage, would require Jays to shed someone from their 25-man and 40-man

  • In reply to Zonk:

    The prospect that is currently on the Jays 40 man roster that I would target in any deal is C A.J. Jiminez. He could be a nice compliment to Castillo in a year or two. Drabek could still be a decent bullpen arm that I would also be interested in. If we could get those two, along with a package of prospects like Stroman, Osuna or Norris and Pompey in exchange for Shark, Strop and one of Schierholtz/Barney than I would be happy. The Blue Jays could easily get release or DFA a guy like Getz if they bring in Barney to even out the roster.

  • Hmmm, I like the logic of a sweetener for the deal and moving
    Barney or another infielder and/or reliever but the Cubs have not changed their valuation of Samardzija and any additional pieces they add should increase the desired return. The Cubs will not just "through them in" for nothing. They still want the same return they did before and even if they think Stoman is capable of overcoming they have to factor that into the negociated value. I'm sure they still want both and Stoman shouldn't be the headliner in any deal. I'm not sure anything gets done without Sanchez. He is the only one that is headliner material in a trade for Jeff S.

    All that said, I really do want to see some more of what AAA has to offer so would welcome a trade that will bring a few new faces up.

  • fb_avatar

    I say we trade Shark + Barney + Grimm/Strop = Sanchez + Stroman + Nolin

    Then trade Soler + Vogelbach + Candelerio = CarGo

    THEN trade Stroman + Blackburn + Almora = David Price

  • In reply to splatstrike:

    Too much sugar?

  • In reply to splatstrike:

    I'd like to invite you to read my post above.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    In what way am I overvaluing the prospects?
    I think that those are all very reasonable.
    The Shark one may be a bit of a reach but teams are desperate at the deadline so it may happen. Throw in a prospect if you must.

  • In reply to splatstrike25:

    The Cubs can't get Sanchez/Stroman for Shark, so you add Barney and Grimm/Strop to get another pitcher from the Jays. It's not realistic.

    Also the Rockies have 0 motivation to move one of their franchise pieces for prospects at this time. If anything they'll be desperate to ADD pieces, not give away one of their best players. It makes no sense.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    I said it's a reach and fine, throw in a prospect if you must. But don't forget that AA is on the hotseat and GMs do desperate things when their jobs are on the line. (like John said)
    And the Rockies ARE motivated to move either Tulo or CarGo since they won't be able to afford both of them soon. Tulo said it himself.

  • In reply to splatstrike25:

    "Hey we're in the wildcard chase, let's trade our second best player for 3 guys who haven't reached double A" said no one ever

  • In reply to splatstrike:

    So trade your biggest asset,5 of the top 12 prospects including 2 of the top 5,gold glove 2nd baseman and 1 of our top bullpen arms,and a top pitching pitching prospect for 2 guys that will cost the club around $350 million plus to keep and 2 pitching prospects. I'm sure those other GM's would make those trade in a hurry outside of the Tor GM of course

  • In reply to bigo4show:

    Precisely. Now let's break down your comment:
    5 of 12 prospects are 1. Vogelbach, who most likely has no future with this team. 2. Candelerio, who is facing a logjam as well. 3. Blackburn who won't be necessary if such a trade goes through. 4 & 5. Almora and Soler are the only things that make this trade plausible.

    Now, let's continue:
    1. Losing darwin barney and replacing him with alcantara is in no shape, way, or form a downgrade.
    2. Bullpen arms come and go and are very volatile. Once prospects like rivero and vizcaino come up, there will be plenty of relievers to go around. (it doesn't have to be grimm, just saying)
    "2 pitching prospects" is hardly the way to describe a future ace (hopefully) and another middle of the rotation pitcher.

    So yes, I believe that creating an elite starting rotation and great lineup is perfectly acceptable through these trades.

  • In reply to splatstrike:

    This, like many of the other proposals, is like trading baseball cards. It might be fun, but it doesn't happen with the actual people.

  • In reply to Cphil:

    I know, but it's somewhat plausible. (although mostly just fun like you said)

  • In reply to Cphil:

    That's a very nice way to say it's not realistic, I like it.

  • John, what would be our chances to expand a deal and make a trade with Marlins for Stanton. He would be huge in the line up with Rizzo.

  • In reply to Roe Skidmore:

    It would cost you min. Baez, Alcantara, Johnson, and Vogelbach for Stanton and a young arm

  • In reply to bigo4show:

    How about Castro, Shark, Schierholz and Lake? Proven starter, good SS, valuable outfielders.

  • In reply to Roe Skidmore:

    Shark and Schierholtz would mean nothing to them. Nate would leave them after 2014, Shark after 2015.

  • In reply to Jimmie Ward:

    Shark would be proven starter for life of agreed contract. Schierholz fills an outfield spot. Castro fills SS for years for Marlins. How would Lake leave?

  • In reply to Roe Skidmore:

    I never said Lake would leave. The rest of it is so flawed Lake doesn't matter

  • In reply to bigo4show:

    Do we not want Stanton?

  • In reply to Roe Skidmore:

    Not for what Miami will ask for him. We don't really need him. We have enough prospects that will fill our outfield just fine.

  • fb_avatar

    I haven't been big on Stroman before, but I'm coming around.

    And while some point out there have been very few good starting pitchers at that height, one could argue that most people his height were never given the chance. They were called "too short" from the get go and that was that. I'm getting to like Stroman.
    The A's have a whole rotation filled with unlikely LOOKING pitchers.

    That said, No Sanchez, No deal. I need Sanchez + Stroman and others.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Giffmo:

    steve stone, only 1 inch taller (on paper)

  • Seems like the FO is looking to trade Jeff at this point, hopefully with crosshairs on Scherzer.. Sanchez, Stroman and Nolin, for Jeff, Hendricks Rusin with pick one valbuana, Barney, Emilio. And maybe another player or two from each team.

  • In reply to The Show:

    I think the Cubs will make a run at Lester this off-season among others.

    With a Lester type,Shark,Wood,Arrieta & Jackson (or pick from our prospects) our starting pitching will be good as will our relief pitching.

    The area that worries me most is corner outfielders (yes Bryant could take one spot) we are going to have to go and find those guys we just dont have them in our system yet. If Bryant has to play 3rd then we need 2 corner outfielders.

    We really are just one ace and one stud OF from being perennial
    contender. The organization needs to do what it takes to make that happen for next year.

  • If I'm the cubs I'm playing the orioles and blue jays off of one another. Both realistically have 2-3 year windows and a good shot at the post season this year. Both have the type of pitching prospects the cubs are looking for in return. Get them to bid on samardzija and the winner not only gets him, but steals him from the loser. Win win for the cubs.

  • May as well get my two cents on the record...

    If I'm the Blue Jays (and I swear I'm not just saying this because I'm firmly in the 'pay Jeff whatever it takes' camp!) and I'm looking to fill the impact pitching void, I'm gonna let Stroman or Sanchez have the shot first. Given the recent precedent of high end pitching prospects helping out teams in the race (Cole, Wacha, Salazar), go with the guys you've drafted and developed. A, you don't have to worry about losing them in a year and a half, and B if Stroman struggles, there's still Sanchez and a couple of nice second tier options.

    Anthopolous potentially being on the hot seat definitely changes the dynamic a little bit. But for all of us who've followed Samardzija's career so closely, we know its certainly not a slam dunk that he would dramatically outperform a high end pitching prospect getting his first shot at earning some real money. Both of those guys' stuff is right there with Samardzija's right now anyway.

    You're so right, John. The clubs match up eerily well.

    If I'm Toronto, I wait until the super 2 cutoff and promote Stroman.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Ben20:

    But for every Cole and Wacha, there's a Trevor Bauer that comes up and struggles. If you're talking about a playoff race, a scuffling prospect can doom you.

    If you have faith in your system, a bringing up a prospect to help salvage/propel your season isn't very good process. Propsects should be brought up based on a level of undeniable readiness.

    You say if Stroman struggles, there's Sanchez, but he's in AA, bringing him up would be a clear sign of desperation.

    (I can agree with either side of the argument, just playing devil's advocate.)

  • In reply to Giffmo:

    Most high profile pitching prospects have success. I definitely don't think it's a 'for every this guy, there's a that guy' deal. If he does struggle when he gets the call , 3 or 4 bad starts in June isn't going to doom anyone. Where's the rule that says you can't go from AA to the show? Very little, if any talent gap between AA and AAA anyway.

    Trading away "the farm" for guys like Dickey and Samardzija is your clear sign of desperation.

  • If Toronto needs a starter, I hope the Cubs trade Jackson North for a 16 yr old Dominican with upside.

  • fb_avatar

    I live in Russia so usually I'm a day or so behind the news as I ignore certain outlets until I am able to download and watch the game but I saw yesterday on Hardball Talk that Stroman is being called up? Does that mean he's off the table in a trade with the Blue Jays?

    They also speculate Buehrle will be the hottest pitcher on the market as the Blue Jays look to be sellers. Have things changed already? I was also confused about if the Cubs were still trying to get BOTH Sanchez and Stroman or are their demands coming down a bit?

    If we start sending over some hitting prospects of our own like specifically Vogelbach or maybe even Soler? Sorry. I know this is kind of an all over the place question but this Shark situation is the most important Cubs issue to me right now.

  • In reply to the DCHAV:

    I think any trade is unlikely until July anyway.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    Probably right. You're so wise. Thanks John!

  • In reply to the DCHAV:

    I don't know about wise ;) but it's been the pattern of late -- could happen earlier as it did with Feldman last year depending on circumstances.

Leave a comment