Moving on from Chris Archer

Moving on from Chris Archer

The Tampa Rays are a smart organization. In signing Chris Archer to a very affordable extension (6 years, 25.5M) they've managed to hold most of their rotation under club control for a long time. The Archer thing hits a particular nerve amongst certain Cubs fans of course. The Cubs traded the talented righty to the Rays initially in exchange for Matt Garza in a move that reeked of desperation. Hak Ju Lee was also included in that deal and he's got a real chance to become a major league regular in the near future.

I wasn't a fan of the trade when it was made initially. I think Matt Garza was a fine pitcher who just didn't quite live up to expectations here with the Cubs for health related reasons. He never went over 200 innings in a Cubs uniform, he didn't save Jim Hendry's job and the best thing you can say Garza did for the organization was bring in a pretty damn good haul of prospects from the Texas Rangers.

None of that is Garza's fault, really. He wasn't surrounded with a playoff caliber team and the Cubs went into full rebuild mode in the middle of his tenure here in Chicago. The Garza era in Chicago will end up being a forgotten one for a variety of reasons and he will hopefully recede into the background as a trivia question (who did the Cubs trade to acquire Mike Olt?).

But what about Chris Archer?

Archer still exists at the forefront of our consciousness as a miss; a pitcher who fits the Cubs youth movement theme as he's seemingly on the track to become something more.

As much as I disliked the Chris Archer move when it happened, I think it's best to simply move on from what could have been and instead focus on the reality of what is. Archer is a fine pitcher and I love him dearly, but the trades are made and there are no take backs. No amount of wish casting or nay saying will put Archer in a Cubs uniform.

Chris Archer is a Ray, and the new deal ensures he'll be a Ray for 6 years pending something out of left field happening. As much as I love the player it's time to move on from something that will never be.

Let go or be dragged.

 

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    I feel like I caused this blog post.

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    First, the Garza trade was actually a good trade, just the context and timing was wrong. It absolutely delivered more WAR.......just to an 80-ish win team. So while the execution was good, the premise was wrong to begin with in hindsight.

    Second, would you make this trade right now if offered:
    CJ Edwards, Mike Olt, Justin Grimm, and Neil Ramirez for Hak-Ju Lee and Chris Archer?

    I probably would take Lee/Archer, but I had to think it through, so that tells you it wasn't a total disaster for us.

  • In reply to Zonk:

    Actually, would you trade Mark Derosa and HJ Lee for CJ, Olt, Grimm and Ramirez?

    Remember, Archer wasn't a home grown product. We got him from Cleveland for DeRosa.

    From that context, I think we are going to turn out just fine.

  • In reply to IrwinFletcher:

    Ya Cubs actually traded Mark DeRosa for 2 years of Matt Garza,Zack Rosscup,Neil Ramirez, Mike Olt,Jason Grimm & CJ Edwards.

  • In reply to bleachercreature:

    Good point!

    Despite the Garza deal, and lack of development, overall Hendry did well in trades. The garza deal looks much more palatable when taking into account that it was trading DeRosa that brought in Archer in the first place (thanks bleacher creature).

    I always think back to all the "fleecing" Hendry did in 2002-2003. From Atlanta, Pittsburgh and another team (in separate trades), didn't Hendry get Aramis Ramirez, karros, lofton, simon, 6-fingers (who pitched well that year), and Juan Cruz for pretty much Bobby Hill and Dontrelle? And we have to credit Hendry for snagging DLee for HeSop Choi (talk about blast from the past!). Oh yeah, and though Nomar didn't pan out like we hoped, he didn't give up anyone significant to add a 2 time batting champ to what should have been a wild card team (though Cabrera would have been the better option in hindsight)

  • In reply to Zonk:

    Context is why the trade was a bad one. Nothing occurs in a vacuum.

  • Agreed, let it go. But I disagree that the Garza era will be a forgotten one. 4, possibly 5 reasons: Grimm, Ramirez, C.J., Olt & quite possibly Zac Rosscup. Could be 1/5th of the Cub 25 man roster if none are traded, hurt or bust with in 2 years. With the amount of middle IF talent in the system, Lee won't be missed at all. Archer would be the only player lost that would be worth even mentioning. That's why trading Cashner for 1Bman the season after trading Archer made absolutely no sense at all.

  • We lost two quality posible aces in trades for a 1st and 3rd base players.

    Andrew cashner for Rizzo and Archer for Olt.

    If we had these two pitchers back to go along with Wood and jeff Samargzda we would be competing innstead of rebuilding.
    We wouldlhave Bryant to play 3rd and Volgelback to play first or maybe even Baez and let Barney play shortstop and A Alcanteria play 2nd.

  • In reply to race:

    it was Hendry's trade and under that FO how do we know that Archer would have developed as well as he did in the fine Rays' system? There's always a lot of talent around, what I hope this FO brings is top-notch player development. That can really make a difference.

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    In reply to race:

    Barney has no business being an everyday MLB SS and Vocalburp and AA could both flop. Meanwhile, cashner's arm will likely fall off and in his first full season, Rizzo hit 23 Hr and 40 2B.

  • Let's hope that C.J. "The String Bean Slinger" becomes our version of Chris Archer (a talented pitcher we stole from another team).

  • At the time, the Cubs valued Trey McNutt higher than Archer. It's not clear whether the Rays insisted on Archer or whether the Cubs offered him. Neither side will say.

  • CJ Edwards says hogwash. ;)

  • Maybe Edwards will us happy it happened.

  • In other news, Bryant HRs on his first AA pitch off of Mat Latos. Soler also in his first AA game and doubles in his 1st at bat.

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    In reply to Quedub:

    Sweet.

  • Alcantara 1 for 2 with a double. Baez has struckout and walked. Vitters with a HR.

    Balaguert with an RBI double. Hannemann 2 for 2, both singles and 2 runs scored.

  • In reply to Quedub:

    The Vitters HR at-bat was encouraging. An 11-pitch battle, IIRC. And then he tattooed a meatball.

  • In reply to Eldrad:

    He usually does well in AAA. The problem he struggles in the majors. I don't see him sticking in the majors.

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    In reply to John57:

    He only has 109 PAs in one trip to the majors, he still has rookie status. His problems have been with injury and preparation.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    Yes that is the problem. He doesn't put in the work to be prepared and in shape. When you're not in shape you get injuries. Soon Bryant, Almora and Soler are going to be up. There is no room for a 3B prospect in the OF. Lake, Kalish, Sweeney and even B. Jackson are better in the OF than him. He is only needed if we have a rash of injuries.

  • I always take solace in knowing that the Chris Archer pitching for the Rays and the Chris Archer in the Cubs system are two different players. Remember, Hendry was in "Save his ass mode" and the Cubs farm system wasn't really developing players as much as they were bumping them up to the next level when the ERA ducked under 3 or the Batting average went over .280……

    If Archer were to have stayed in Chicago, he would have been turned into a closer, or brought up early, or countless of other things. Chris Archer stayed an extra year- to- an extra year and a half in the minors and it helped him tremendously.

    If Archer were here, he'd be Juan Cruz.

    That's how I moved on from Chris Archer.

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    In reply to felzz:

    Great point Felzz!

  • In reply to felzz:

    And I believe Archer was available in lieu of Trey McNutt, who at the time was the more highly touted prospect...

  • Archer will never be a top guy. Good velocity, and has developed some command. 2 pitch guy, with an average slider. Plays with a gold glove infield. He will get hit this season.

  • For Daytona, both Vogelbach and Candelario with a single and a walk today. Amaya with two singles. Vizcaino with a scoreless, 1 hit, no walk, no strikeouts, injury-free inning in relief.

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    Just got back from the Daytona game. I only sat thru 6 innings. Game time temp was 78 degrees and dropped pretty quickly to 70 in the 6th. That was about as cold as this very former Chicago native could stand.

    Not much hitting to talk about in this one but there were a few things to take note of.

    1. Jeimer Candelario is just silky smooth at 3B. He just makes things look so easy out there with his glove. It's going to be interesting if this kid can show he can hit as he moves up the system. I was impressed!

    2. Albert Almora leaves no doubt as to whose in charge out there in CF. He's definitely going to be one of our leaders of the future. Opposing pitcher Tyler Wagner was really bringing it early to Cub hitters. Albert even tried to bunt for a it in his 2nd AB. Not a bad idea at the time as the Cubs only had one hit to that point. But with Almora's speed (or lack of) he may want to rethink that whole bunt for a hit idea.

    3. Dan Vogelbach...... Ah Danny, one of my favorites out there but today's performance just fed the scouts out there than label him as a DH type of player. He did end up with a hit today (as I look at the box scores), but his first 2 AB's looked mediocre at best. He had a broken bat pop up to short LF and they jammed him for another lazy pop up to short. And his work at 1B reminded me of a Mack Truck with a few flat tires. Might we suggest yoga class for him so that he gains some flexability out there? Even though he lost a whole lot of weight he still needs a lot of work on his footwork.

    4. Chadd Krist can really catch. I think he must have worked really hard on blocking pitches over the winter. He looked really good back there receiving the ball. I really wanted to see someone try to steal as I hoped to see how his footwork and release looked. He did hit the ball on the screws to deep CF on his first AB. And he'll have to prove he can hit if he wants to advance. But I hope he can do it!

    Finally,

    5. Gioskar Amaya was a pleasant surprise out there. He had 2 nice hits although he was a bit too aggressive on his 2nd hit. It was a line drive that dropped just in front of a diving RF'er. The ball never got away from him and Amaya was easily thrown out trying to stretch the hit into a double. It ended what was shaping up to be a nice scoring opportunity.

    I left before I could see Arodys Vizcaino pitch in the 8th. Folks on Twitter said he was really bringing it and topped out at 97 mph. Not sure about the report as there are no radar reading on the scoreboard at Space Coast Stadium. But I'm pretty sure the place had scouts there.

    So that's it. The boys at Daytona lose a tough one 1-0. I wouldn't draw any conclusions just yet. The season just sarted and it was great to see the Boys of Summer once again!

  • In reply to bocabobby:

    Thanks, boca.

  • In reply to bocabobby:

    I'm looking forward to seeing Christ play too.

    O/T, no one is talking about Beef's receiving skills this ST. But in watching him last night and Monday on TV, I can see the effort to frame pitches. He's still got a ways to go, but he's doing more with that now than he did last year.

  • In reply to bocabobby:

    Good to hear Almora is running OK after running into the wall in ST game and bruising his knee.

    If it gets too cold at games couldn't you just bring a jacket? I would have loved to see Vizcaino pitch.

  • Tennessee Smokies b-cast froze here on Bryant's HPB. Not a terrible thing, since trying to watch 3 games was like juggling 3 slimy fish. But, first inning at-bat was enjoyable across 2 games: Bryant HR, Alcantara double, Soler double, Baez walk, Villanueva double all in a 5-minute space.

    Meanwhile, in KC, Blackburn showing some trouble with control. But man, oh man, he unleashed a 2-strike bender for a K that was MLB top of rotation quality.

    I'm liking what I see from many of the KC hitters. There's a clear pattern of guys working counts and attacking in batter-friendly counts and situations. Much like last year, there's a sea change compared to prospects drafted only a few years ago.

  • 70 degrees is cold ?

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    In reply to Rbirby:

    For a guy in my health condition...... Yes sir! I'm cold when it's under 75 degrees! lol

  • In reply to Rbirby:

    Ha!.. Family & Friends back at home laugh at me because I won't leave the house if it's under 60....

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    In reply to HoosierDaddy:

    I think I can speak for all current Chicago inhabitants when I say most of us would rejoice at the mere thought of 60 degrees.

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    In reply to HoosierDaddy:

    Hahahaha Same here. They always say to me that since I was born and raised in Chicago, I should be used to cold weather. I always say there was a reason I left over 20 years ago!

    I also did notice how Beef was making a bigger effort to frame pitches. It must be the old HS catcher in me! LOL

    PS. His last name is spelled Krist and not Christ. We don't want folks to think the second coming is under way! ROFL

  • In reply to bocabobby:

    My bad, I had Chadd Krist on the brain and it just come out Christ... From now on, he shall be known as "The Chadd"...

  • In reply to Rbirby:

    I'm headed to the Iowa game tomorrow and the game time temp prediction is 32 wind chill.

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    You guys see - Rickets is considering selling shares / minority investment to fund things

    this is getting ridiculous - at the end of the day he day he doesnt have the money $$ - otherwise you wouldnt bring on new partners - who you have to report to. Hes blaming the rooftops but doesnt have the cash. Payroll down 4 years in a row. Money is just going to debt service.

    I think the report on Bleacher Nation was pretty spot on.

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    In reply to deport soriano com:

    Tribune: "Any sale of stock in the Cubs would not come with voting rights, the source said, meaning the Ricketts family would retain full control."

    I don't think these shareholders would be partners who he have to "report to," more similar to the Green Bay Packers system of selling essentially powerless shares to the public to raise money.

  • In reply to deport soriano com:

    He didn't have the cash in the pair of pants he wore that day. The $500 Million was in the other pair of pants.

  • I guess I kind of moved on from this trade early - as there is pretty much no way to unscramble those particular eggs anyway.

    DeRosa - turned into Archer - who turned into Garza - who turned into Olt/Edwards/Grimm/Ramirez,.... It is what it is.

  • It would pay to renovate, without adding more debt and debt service payments. Would be a positive.

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    If Rickets is selling - he doesnt have the cash.
    You dont take on stake holders - voting or non - if you dont need to .
    Either way he has to account to those groups or individuals.

    he doesnt have it - expect more of the same to come in the future.

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    In reply to deport soriano com:

    unless this is a way to get around any personal spending restrictions stipulated in the purchase from Zell.

  • In reply to SKMD:

    Or a way for wealthy people to get in on the excitement. If some people are just going to give him money, why not accept it?

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    Does anybody know why Soler came out after one AB?

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    Soler stayed in Mesa for additional rehab/treatments to his hamstring after the rest of his team left 3/31. I'd speculate it had something to do with that, but don't know for certain.

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