A look at the Cubs starting rotation

A look at the Cubs starting rotation
Travis Wood's all-around athleticism is an asset for the Cubs

The Cubs have done a good job of identifying bargain pitchers over the past two years. Scott Feldman and Travis Wood are the first two names that pop up in my mind. The Cubs will enter 2014 with a few question marks in their rotation and considerably less talent sans Matt Garza. Let's take a look at the three mainstays of the rotation and a quartet of guys that I think will be fighting for the last two spots.

Jeff Samardzija

I did a long form post on Samardzija, it can be read here. Basically, we know that Shark often teases at a juicy potential but the gulf between where he is and where he can be is wide. Age doesn't help much on that front either. Samardzija will be 29 on opening day and while the arm is young the rest of him isn't. Still, if he can even approach the type of production that his occasional brilliance teases at then he is without a doubt the Cubs' best pitcher.

Travis Wood

In 2010 Wood, then with the Cincinnati Reds, had an impressive 17 game debut in which he posted a 1.08 WHIP, a 20.5-6.2 K%-BB% and a 3.51 ERA in 102.2 innings. The athletic Wood followed that up with a lackluster 2011 and was traded to the Cubs for Sean Marshall ahead of the 2012 season. Wood struggled again in 26 starts for the Cubs but he recovered nicely in 2013 to post impressive surface numbers. Wood famously gagged in his quest to hit 200 innings and keep his ERA under 3 in his final start of the season but all in all it was a rather impressive season for the lefty.

Wood held batters to a .222 OAV in 2013. He did slightly better against lefties (.207/.294/.305 in 198 PAs) but his work against righties wasn't anything to scoff at (.226/.291/.365 in 623 PAs). Wood also posted a 17.5-8.0 K%-BB% which isn't phenomenal but a +2-1 strike out to walk ratio is pretty good for a starter.

I don't think Travis Wood is a top of the rotation arm, and even though the results were extremely good this year he'll have to prove it to me again this year before I pin "Solid 3 starter" on him. The stuff is ok but it isn't excellent, the athleticism helps and he fields his position very well. I'm looking for innings from Wood in 2014; he never got beyond the 7th in 2013.

Edwin Jackson

It's always funny when you see two completely different types of pitchers in the same rotation. While Travis Wood outperformed his peripherals and his stuff in 2013, Edwin Jackson severely under performed both. Jackson is erratic but in that inconsistency is a certain consistency that's hard to understand. It makes it doubly difficult to evaluate Jackson as a pitcher. Jackson posted a 17.4-7.6 K%-BB%, but he got drilled for a 4.98 ERA. He was hit often and hard as well, hitters posted a .281/.339/.436 slash line against him in 777 PAs in 2013.

FIP (3.79) and xFIP (3.86) both say he should be better, but it's difficult to reasonably predict what Jackson will do in 2014. His uneven 2013 had performances that shotgunned the entire spectrum. If we use Game Score there's a 62 point spread between his best performance and his worst.

While I believe that Jackson will bounce back in 2014 I don't think he is anything more than a back end arm which will make contract conscious fans a bit angry. I disagree with the notion that Edwin Jackson is overpaid relative to the league, however. As we're about to see with whatever contract Ervin Santana gets this offseason contracts are getting more inflated as the years go on.

The last two spots

Jake Arrieta - Arrieta's peripheral numbers aren't very inspiring (12.7 BB% rate, 4.84 FIP in 2013) but the arm is still big enough to entice some folks into believing in a better future. I'm like the X Files poster here, I want to believe but the Scully in me is, well, skeptical. Arrieta is seen as a change of scenery candidate and he did very well on the surface level during his brief stint with the Cubs. He still posted a double digit walk rate, however. He'll have a shot in the rotation, but the more I look at his profile the more I think "reliever".

Chris Rusin - I firmly believe that the only reason Rusin is projected to be the fifth starter is because the Cubs haven't signed Scott Baker yet. The Cubs' lack of impact arms shows in Rusin, he of the 12.8 K%. I don't believe in Rusin over the long term due to a combination of peripheral numbers (4.75 FIP) and stuff. Baseball is hard, pitching is really hard and it's made harder when you don't miss bats.

Alberto Cabrera - I hope that the Cubs have made up their mind regarding what they want Cabrera to be because I'm concerned about his flip in between relieving and starting. There used to be a time where young pitchers would serve an apprenticeship in the bullpen and earn a rotation spot. It doesn't quite work the same way anymore. Starting and relieving are two completely different jobs now, relievers are short burst specialists who are conditioned to go all out for 20~ pitches. That's not something you want a young pitcher to learn if you think he can be a starter. For now, I think the Cubs want him in the rotation and he deserves a shot, especially in a rotation short on the backend like the Cubs are. He's been erratic over his pro career but there are enough positives over his past 180 innings to offer up a lot of hope.

Scott Baker - I put him here in the hopes that he signs with the Cubs and pushes Rusin out of the rotation. Baker is an interesting bounce back candidate. Before the injury Baker posted 20-6 K%-BB% with regularity which made his secondary stats all the more attractive. He was another one of the broken toys the Cubs started nabbing when the front office took over and his rehab lasted longer than anyone thought it would. Baker had a severely short audition (15 IP) and there were some velocity concerns in 2013 but I have high hopes for him in 2014.

Filed under: Analysis

Tags: Baseball, Cubs, mlb, Pitching, starters

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  • Arodys Vizcaíno?

  • In reply to Reddevil:

    Don't think he'll crack camp with the big boys, I also think they want to stretch him out.

  • In reply to Mauricio Rubio Jr.:

    Agreed. I think he needs to build up that arm strength. If the makes it to the Cubs in 2014, I imagine he'll be in the bullpen. Not to rule him out as a starter long term, but I can't see him getting to the point where he'll be able to give big innings at the end of the season.

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    I'd rather see Hendricks in the rotation and Rusin in the 'pen, but I'm sure Hendricks will likely start the year in AAA. As of right now, it's all speculation, as we're not even to the winter meetings yet and opening day is still 4 months away.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    I hope Hendricks gets an invite to ST. I think he will. It will nice to see what kind of progress he's made over the winter.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Fireballers are exciting to watch, but I love the artists like Maddux. Hendricks has ridiculous control and seemed unfazed by his promotion last summer. I'd like to see how he does against major league bats.

    There was another soft-tossing minor leaguer I was high on after the 2012 season, Minnesota lefty Matt Tomshaw. He was drafted late and scouts weren't big on him or his stuff, but he outperformed his physical limitations. He seemed to know how to pitch, taking a little something extra OFF the ball, rather than trying to throw harder than he was capable. I thought he was one of those guys that could make adjustments as the competition got tougher. Tomshaw posted a sub 3.00 ERA in his first two pro seasons, but struggled in 2013. He's 24 now and still hasn't reached AA ball. I think if he makes it to the big leagues now, it'll be as a "late bloomer" in the bullpen.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Finesse guys are great if you love the art of pitching -- which I do. That makes me a big fan of Hendricks. The flip side with finesse pitchers is that their margin for error decreases with each level and so you can't really get a feel for them until they dominate in AA and AAA. Hendricks looks like he has a shot because he has done just that. I think he had just one bad start in AAA if I remember correctly.

    The other downside is that they usually aren't as good out of the bullpen because their game is built on pitchability, a trait that is better suited for starters.

    I love a good finesse pitcher, but I'll take the power pitcher all things being equal. They tend to have higher floors and ceilings. But Hendricks is a guy who looks like he has as good a shot to be a #4 type starter as anybody else out there. Looking forward to seeing him this spring.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Amen, brother. Preach on.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Id rather see Rusin gone completely. To me, at best hes a LOOGY whom the league will catch up to when they realize hes a 1-pitch soft tosser. At least prior soft-tossers like Maddux, Jimmy Key or Moyer knew how to change speeds to fool hitters, and most of all, threw strikes. Rusin cant even do that from start to start. Right now, Rusin is a left handed Al Nipper.

  • Bosio offers up Hendricks' name as a rotation candidate, so he cannot be ignored. Impeccable control. This is not Rusin, Raley or Struck here. This is a viable 3, 4 or 5 arm.

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    Sale, David price, dempster, cj wilson, Wainwright, Samardzija, and now the tigers trying it with Smyly and the orioles with Gausman. Liked the article, but gotta say i disagree with you on your reliever to starter transition point. I think contenders are more likely to do it than rebuilding teams, but still seems very present in baseball. Same risk and success rate that applies to any young arm. Don't see Cabrera as anything more than a fringe starter, but also don't have a problem with how he's been handled.

  • In reply to Kevin Simcox:

    Neftali Feliz, Sale had arm issues when he made the switch, Smyly is an unknown, Alexi Ogando, Joba Chamberlin, it's more about the arm issues than anything.

  • In reply to Mauricio Rubio Jr.:

    Young pitchers have arm issues all the time though. There is no evidence that switching from the pen to the rotation increases that likelihood. Thats why teams like the cardinals do this all the time.

  • In reply to Andrew:

    Joe Sheehan is doing a study on it and he has posited more than a few times on twitter and via his newsletter that there is something to the whole "reliever to starter" issue.

    The Cardinals can do it because they have an infrastructure built from the ground up that supports it, it's like saying of course all teams can develop young pitching because the Cardinals can.

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    In reply to Kevin Simcox:

    Dempster was already an established all-star (Florida in 2000)starter who moved to the bullpen after TJ surgery. Returning to the rotation was easy for him because he was a veteran who knew how to prepare for the role. It's different with kids.

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    If Travis Wood is your 5th starter, you have a great rotation. If Travis Wood is your 4th starter, you have a good rotation. If Travis Wood is your 3rd starter, you have an average rotation. I would continue, but you all should see where I was going with that.

    The best case scenario for Shark is twofold. First, he agrees to a team friendly extension. I'm thinking something in between what Matt Harrison got from the Rangers and what Anibal Sanchez got from Detroit, and there would be no No-Trade-Clause. The second would be to trade him for a package that was considerably better than the return on Matt Garza, and I'm not going to lie about it. I hope it isn't Toronto.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Just a question, if Arizona offered Skaggs and Eaton, would you make the deal?

  • In reply to Greg Menke:

    NO. Id want at least Miley or Corbin besides Skaggs/Eaton. The Snakes arent going to let us have Bradley, so I want at least 3 of the better prospects.

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    In reply to Greg Menke:

    Probably not! Honestly of the teams actually being mentioned out there now, BAL might have the best deal to offer. Gausman or Bundy would be the must haves in my book.

    I think Duquette will try to push Bundy off on the Cubs, but I really don't want to see the Cubs trade Samardzija for an injured pitcher, and I don't care if it is only TJS. I'd hold out for Gausman and hope Duquette folded. If he didn't fold, I'd still be happy with Bundy.

    I really think Eduardo Rodriguez is underrated. I simply wouldn't do this deal without him coming back. A few years ago he had the look of a typical finesse lefty, but then he grew up and filled out. He also straightened up his mechanics. He's consistently low 90's now, and he's topping out mid 90's. Some reports also have him throwing harder as the game progresses, which is a good sign. If he can get his command and control issues, especially with the off-speed stuff, worked out, he could surprise a lot of people.

    Honeslty, if Duquette relented and offered Gausman and Rodriguez for Samardzija, I'd probably take it on the spot. At worst, Gausman is a 3. He is probably a 2, and he could be a 1. I think Rodriguez could be a 2, but he is probably a 3, and at worst, he might be a very dominant left handed reliever. Anything else BAL might throw in would just be icing on the cake.

    I'll even go as far to say that, if BAL needed a prospect back or another player in that deal to get it done, I'd do it.

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    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    I'll take an injured Bundy over Gausman, easily.

  • In reply to Greg Menke:

    No!! I'm not high on Skaggs or Eaton.

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    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    I think Caldwell is right on with the assessment based on Woods position on the rotation. Wood is as consistent and reliable as you can get without the flash and the flair. He is a perfect #3/#4 pitcher on a solid rotation and an awesome #5 in a dream rotation. Because he's a lefty, he will get his 15 years of mlb service.

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    Remember just a couple short years ago when our best pitching prospects were Struck, Carpenter and Bileveau?

    Thank you Theo and Jed, thank you.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    ^^this^^

  • Some pitchers are better pitching to contact than trying to miss bats. That's where some pitchers can get in trouble (Carlos Marmol, Carlos Zambrano, Farhnzy, etc.). Not saying Rusin is better than Baker. One is Lefty & younger, the other righty & much older. But also, if they acquire this Brett Anderson & hang on to Samardzija, that would hopefully leave Baker on the outside & not Arrieta. I've liked what I've seen of both Arrieta & Rusin so far & prefer them over the older, less durable & more expensive Timothy Scott Baker. Save the money is just my 2 cents on it. (Pun intended)

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    In reply to Milk Stout:

    Just my opinion, but I'd take a healthy Baker in the rotation over Rusin any day. Healthy being the operative word here.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Normally, & I use that term loosely, I would too. But being the Cubs don't appear to be close to contending (and I use that term loosely as well) yet, why spend the bigger money for a guy on the wrong side of 30? And I'm not sure, but doesn't Baker pitch to contact up in the zone as well?

  • In reply to Milk Stout:

    I would imagine Scott Baker's deal would probably be for 1 year perhaps with an option. There is nothing wrong with trading him at the deadline, over the past 2 years that scenario has added Viscaino, Beeler, Hendricks, Arrieta, Grimm, and Ramirez to this discussion.

  • In reply to Greg Menke:

    Beeler was drafted by the Cubs in the 41st round of the 2010 draft.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    I agree and wouldn't be surprised to see Rusin and Raley released before the end of 2014. I believe that they are the last minor league pitchers on the 40 man roster that were from the previous administration?

  • In reply to Greg Menke:

    Cabrera & Beeler from the last administration. Others if they don't make the team out spring & aren't traded or released: Rosscup, & Parker. Jokisch if he gets added to the 40 man, but probably not this season unless he comes on like a freight train. Dolis, if he gets back. There's more, but I see where you are going (or coming) from.

    Also, I would be surprised for an out right release of Rusin &/or Raley. Maybe a DFA, to clear a 40 roster spot, but not an outright release. I would hope they'd try to trade them before doing that.

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    In reply to Milk Stout:

    Wasn't Dolis Theo & Co's Rule 5 selection in 2012?

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    In reply to Matt McNear:

    no, Lendy Castillo was

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    In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Ah, my mistake!

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    In reply to Greg Menke:

    Truth is Rusin and Raley will get run out by better talent.

  • In reply to Cubsforlife:

    Maybe not this season,.... but by next season most definately. Rusin will probably make the team out of Spring Training this season. Raley I do agree I think is toast or a trade throw in.

  • Really great write up, Mauricio! I along with a few others I see would like to see Hendricks get an invite. Also intrigued by Neil Ramirez. Any chance there's an Iowa rotation mini-write up on the horizon?

  • In reply to Ben20:

    Yes that's in the works but it's gonna take time, will encompass all of their minor leagues.

  • In reply to Mauricio Rubio Jr.:

    Bad Ass.

  • Also, reading your write up on Alberto Cabrera, you said,

    "especially in a rotation short on the backend like the Cubs are."

    I happen to think that that's where they are stacked. It's the front end of it they are short on. I don't think JS is an ace, nor do I think TW is. Both are decent #3s at this point on the bubble of being 2s maybe, if they improve on this last year? But to anoint them front end, to me is a little bit premature.

    But I do agree that I don't like them bouncing a young guy from bullpen to rotation & back & forth... not good. That's what they did with JS.

    Thanks for the article & fodder to talk about.

  • In reply to Milk Stout:

    yeah I meant their rotation specifically is short a few guys. Poorly worded, my mistake.

  • In reply to Mauricio Rubio Jr.:

    Aw, hey man, no problem. I love reading the articles. This is a great site. Love the discussions that take place here as well. Thanks.

  • In reply to Milk Stout:

    Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment!

  • In reply to Milk Stout:

    I agree with your premise, but I must come to John's defense here. Yes, taken at face value that is the implication. But in truth, the Cubs are short on the front end, and with a bunch of guys who are 5's and 6's trying to fill those roles. So his perspective was in the reverse. Wood should be a 4 or 5, yet he is a 2. So in essence John is saying these guys should be moved down, and those 4th and 5th starters should not be in the big leagues or not pitching in MLB. He just looked at it from the front end, not the back end.

  • In reply to Quasimodo:

    1st, you mean "Mauricio's" defense. He wrote it, not John. 2nd, Mauricio already explained himself to me & I'll take his explanation, thank you very much. Have a great night, go Cubs.

  • It seems like there is a glut of starting pitchers at the AAA level (Beeler, Grimm, Hendricks, Raley, Ramirez, Rusin, and Viscaino). Not sure how this will settle out during spring training, but it would seem to set up a situation where someone will hopefully separate themselves during the year when an injury or trade takes place.

  • In reply to Greg Menke:

    Yes --- and it's also nice to have that kind of depth just one level away. I would add Eric Jokisch to the list of guys who will be at AAA

  • Hoping the Cubs are visiting with Daniel Hudson right now and that a deal with Scott Baker is a lock.

  • In reply to Greg Menke:

    Cubs have hire eric hinske to be their first base coach any significance with big club we shall see

  • Assuming htey don't bring in another SP, you've got the right candidates listed. Some may be lobbying for Hendricks and Ramirez to enter the fray. I'm sure they'll get an invite.

    Rusin needs to be in AAA in case of an injury/emergency. Don't know that there's anything else he can do to earn a spot and he showed enough to warrant some starts... but I think he's destined for the pen as soon as we have some depth at the upper levels.

    Cabrera & Arrieta both have an excellent repertoire, but no ability to command it.... Having more than one of them in the rotation may cause Renteria some heart problems. Those two represent the most upside though.

    I'm hoping they bring Baker back.

    My first choice is Masahiro Tanaka!

  • Is Rusin more of the LOOGY type? I don't know if we have an extra bullpen spot for two (he and the overused Russell), but I was thinking he could match up in the 6th or 7th if we needed a 3rd out against a lefty. This question comes knowing very little of his splits.

  • In reply to copinblue:

    I really like the idea of trading for anderson from the a's. It would be real nice to have two solid lefty's in the rotation. I think rusin will only be situational lefty in the bullpen

  • In reply to copinblue:

    Good catch, small sample size but he gets lefties out: .228 .273 .304 slash line with a 3:1 K-BB ratio.

  • So if the Cubs trade Shark and don't win the bid for Tanaka, then who stakes Shark's place in the rotation?

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    Wesley Wright was non-tendered by the Rays. If like to see the Cubs bring him aboard. Wright would provide another good lefty out of the pen.

  • In reply to Mike Ogulnick:

    Id rather see the Cubs take a shot at OFlatherty or Venters, both of whom can be better than LOOGYS. The Braves have always produced good Major league arms. These 2 were formidable when healthy.

  • Out of these options, I'd like to see Arrieta and Cabrera get the last two spots. Cubs may as well see what they have in the two high upside arms rather than the lower ceilings on Baker and Rusin. Plus, I believe Cabrera is out of options, so they need to let him pitch.

    The Cubs need to find some talent for the rotation, this is a good year to experiment with upside.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    Agree.

  • This Cubs rotation is filled with #5 Starters, AAA Pitchers, and TJ patients.......even if Tanaka comes on, we are still a last place team.

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    In reply to CubsTalk:

    Not sure I agree with you. Samardzija's numbers might equate to a #3, but many think he has ace potential. Wood may very well be a career 3, but he was an all star last year, hardly a 5 as you suggest. Arrieta has filthy stuff and EJax numbers from 2010-2012 were as good as Anibal Sanchez's. A rotation of Tanaka, Samardzija, Wood, Jackson and Arrieta could prove to be quite formidable.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Please, do not put the name of Samardzija in the same sentence with the word "Ace".....

    Wood was an All Star because MLB rules say every ALL Star team has to have a player from each team.. .....

    Arietta has not proven anything yet.....

    There is a reason why Jackson has been on 8 different teams .....he is not good....just look at his career stats....

    Even if we had Tanaka, and didn't trade any of our starters, we still have a last place team in this division...........three teams are better then us, and Braun will be back for Milwaukee.....it will be a struggle for a few more years.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    CubsTalk, you have it right on the money.

    Unfortunately.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    This is pure pessimistic blather. The numbers don't support your statements. At all.

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    Eric Hinske is the new first base coach. Interesting!

  • If Arrieta and/or Cabrera can't cut the mustard the Cubs can look to Iowa for help. Hendricks or another pitcher might step up.

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    Shark to Braves. One writer thinks it a good idea: http://www.talkingchop.com/2013/12/3/5165410/braves-trade-rumors-jeff-samardzija-cubs

  • In reply to Lou Sofianos:

    I just posted it. They certainly match up well but Braves are a team that I havent' seen mentioned anywhere. Maybe?

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Does sound like a Frank Wren type deal. You never know, though.

  • In reply to GAHillbilly:

    That should say doesn't. I'm lost without an edit feature. lol

  • In reply to GAHillbilly:

    I wouldn't mind if the two teams got together. I think there's a match and I'm a fan of the way Braves do business. They're pretty straightforward and honest.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I don't know if they're players here, but I do like the writer's analysis of Shark.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Kevin Coffman.....
    Micah Bowie......
    Arydos Vizcaino.......

    So far the Braves are on the winning end.

  • A bit off topic, but in the situation that Beltran goes to the Yankees and Cano to the Mariners as is rumored, that quietly leaves a little less competition for Ellsbury's services. I wonder to what point his market would have to diminish to for the Cubs to really get serious.

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    No mention of Justin Grimm? The numbers weren't spectacular at Iowa but he was missing a lot of bats down there. Like to see him in the fold.

    My vote goes to Arrieta and Cabrera for those last two spots. I go with upside and stuff over finesse every time unless the finesse guy is special.

  • In reply to Marcel Jenkins:

    I think he should get a shot. I've heard he could be a mid rotation type. He got called up to early and has had a terrible babip.

  • In reply to Marcel Jenkins:

    Grimm is probably better served (as are the Cubs) in the Pen as a set-up guy rather than as a rotation guy out of Spring Training.

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    Ellsbury to the yankees according to MLBTR - good news, that's that much less money they have to throw at Tanaka.

  • 7yrs 142 million for ellsbury

  • In reply to Caseman23:

    I saw it as 7/$153M with a NTC and an 8th year vesting option. And the Cubs would have had to go over the significantly to get him to sign. I want no part of that deal.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    Their has to be incentives/protections in their with Ellsbury's history of injuries.

    Also, that number is barely lower than the offer to Cano.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    Agreed. Happily got priced out of that market.

  • That is one bare-looking cupboard. Tanaka would make a bigger difference for this rotation than any other. And I honestly wouldn't mind seeing them re-ink Maholm, Feldman! or Garza to go with JS, Wood and Cabrera.

  • In reply to h vaughn:

    I have no problem with signing Maholm or Feldman, but I am not sure they would want to come back. Who knows? Maybe One thing for sure is Garza is not coming back.

  • Cano no longer a yankee a very distinct possibility

  • I didn't see Casey Coleman in your analysis for potential Cubs starters. What gives?

    *ducks*

    In all seriousness, I've really enjoyed the addition of Mauricio's articles here at the Den. You are a very solid writer!

    Man, I really miss the optimism of draft time in June. Blackburn was looking to be a possible stud, and Zastryzsny had me envisioning Ted Lilly 2.0. The truth is, everybody at the higher minor league levels is likely a 4-5 starter IF they make it to the bigs, and those other guys are a few years away. If the Cubs are going to do any winning over the next few years, guys like Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo are going to have to hit an awful lot of homeruns, in addition to getting lucky with some more Maholm/Feldman-type signings.

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    Can we please just morph Jake Arrieta and Kyle Hendricks into one pitcher? Arrieta's stuff with Hendricks pitchability and command would make for one heck of a pitcher.

  • In reply to Jason Pellettiere:

    How terrible would the two ass ends of that morph look? Arrieta's control with Hendricks stuff... yuk!

    Who else can we morph? I'm thinking Josh Vitters with his eye hand coordination & swing with...

    Vogelbomb's bat with the defense of...

    Junior Lake's athleticicm & arm with...

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    In reply to Jason Pellettiere:

    It's already been done. His name is Justin Verlander.

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