Manager search update: The favorites, speculating on a couple more names, and don't expect a celebrity manager

Manager search update: The favorites, speculating on a couple more names, and don't expect a celebrity manager
Rick Renteria

In case you missed it, I was on The Score 670 in Chicago last night with Joe Ostrowski.  We talked about...what else?  The Cubs manager situation in light of Joe Girardi's decision to stay in New York.  Many thanks again to Joe who asks great questions and makes the show very easy.

Per Gordon Wittenmeyer, the Cubs aren't looking for a brand name manager.

Insiders say the Cubs’ priority in choosing their next manager is the ability to help young players transition and develop in the big leagues.

No celebrities

Speaking of the Cubs managerial situation, there are some fans who aren't satisfied with the names out there and are digging for guys with experience or name value.  I don't expect this to happen.  One name mentioned is Cal Ripken but he just doesn't fit any of the criteria.  He doesn't have any kind of managing or leadership experience outside of his time as a player.  He is not known as a development guy or a guy savvy with analytics.

Patrick Mooney talks about Ozzie Guillen, who says he'd always be interested in managing the Cubs.  He doesn't think he'd be a candidate saying, "Team sources said Guillen has zero chance of getting the Cubs job this time. But could you think of anyone better to show Starlin Castro some tough love?"  Whatever we say about Ozzie that White Sox team was better when he was there, he kept the heat off his players, and he worked well with youngsters.  But as Mooney says, no way is he a candidate for this position.

Joe Maddon isn't coming either.  The Tampa Bay organization is like family.  He doesn't want to leave there and the Rays don't want to see him go.  Even if it were possible, it would take a lot of compensation, probably a top 4 prospect -- and again, that's if he even has any interest in leaving Tampa and they have interest in letting him go.

Former Cubs analyst Bob Brenly is also not a candidate and there seems to be mutual disinterest there.  Brenly is happy with a cozy analyst job in his home state while the Cubs likely consider him too old school.  And while everyone likes to point to how he won a World Series ring, they conveniently leave out how he had the two best pitchers in baseball when he won, began to decline 2 years later-- and then eventually lost his team completely in 2004

The Cubs Den favorites

We talked about some candidates yesterday and the two favorites are Manny Acta and Sandy Alomar, Jr (each with 24% of the vote).  I suspect it could break down that way in the general public as well.  Acta is going to be the new school favorite while Alomar will be the old school favorite as well as the likely new favorite of the media.  I don't want to characterize them as one of the other, however.  Alomar probably learned a few things from Francona. Acta is also known for developing players.  He's not just a stat head.  Both managers are likely a blend of the two but with Acta being far more proficient with the analytics part of the game.  It'd be great to have them both, actually, but that likely isn't possible.  The Cubs clearly have Acta higher on their list right now but Alomar remains in the mix.

The 3rd most popular candidate was Dave Martinez, who finished with a somewhat surprisingly high 17%.  He's a new school guy who has had the advantage of working with Joe Maddon.  He lacks MLB experience but Maddon delegates a lot of responsibility to Martinez and while it's always a different story when you are the guy, the transition for Martinez should be easier than most.   According to Gordon Wittenmeyer, the Cubs are planning on seeking permission to speak to him as well.

Even more surprisingly, Tony Pena finished 4th in our poll.  It's surprising because he has not mentioned by the media yet. Pena is considered a great motivator and a guy who works well with kids.  He has some name appeal and some MLB managing experience as well.

Other Top Candiates

Wittenmeyer also talks about Rick Renteria, who will be the 3rd candidate to get an interview after AJ Hinch and Acta.  Renteria is a well-regarded coach with the Padres and has some experience as the manager of Mexico's baseball team.  He's in the "other" category because he finished low in our voting, but considering he's one of the first 3 to interview, he has to be viewed as a serious contender, as does Hinch.

Renteria, 51, admired for his leadership skills by the Cubs’ brass, also is considered the top available candidate when it comes to developing young Latin players, according to a source.

A.J. Hinch has some experience as the Arizona manager and was the first candidate interviewed by the Cubs.  He is seen as proficient with analytics and has extensive experience in developing players.  The question is his managerial record but the Cubs will be more interested to know what he learned from that experience and how he plans to improve in that area.

A few guys who may draw interest but whose teams are still playing baseball...

Torey Lovullo is another guy we've mentioned but he is a long shot because of his lack of MLB experience as a manager.  He has worked with current Red Sox manager John Farrell this past season as a bench coach and also when both were with the Blue Jays organization.  Lovullo also was a successful manager in the Red Sox organization.

A couple of new names to throw out there are Chip Hale and Mike Gallego, both of the Oakland A's.   Hale has been a candidate with the Mets and the stat-savvy Seattle Mariners and was the Pacific Coast League (AAA) manager of the year in 2006.  Gallego is known as a good instructor, having played that role in the Rockies system and is the 3B coach with Oakland and does some infield instruction there as well.

 

Filed under: Uncategorized

Comments

Leave a comment
  • I like Chip Hale like a few of the other candidates Alomar and Renteria should be managing a big league team already.

  • I got to believe that Dave Martinez will become a favorite soon if he is allowed to interview. Developing players and helping them adjust to the major leagues is all they do in Tampa.

  • I was on the Girardi bandwagon, but he has become a NY guy who's legacy is now all Yankee. Turns out that he wasn't one of us. His cubdom has become a footnote. I have done a 180 on a celebrity manager and think that the Cubs should stick with the painful process of a meticulous rebuild. All candidates should be on equal footing including Davy. Let's hire the best guy and go from there.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Agreed -- and honestly I think that's the way it should have been from the start.

  • Maury Povich

  • What about Jose Oquendo? I think he has paid his dues and would be a great manager, but blocked in St. Louis.

  • In reply to Jammin502:

    I haven't heard of him as a candidate. Possible I suppose, but doesn't seem like their kind of guy.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Why? Because he has no ties to San Diego? How about instead of continually raiding a Padres system that is known for losing, we look at people in winning franchises? Maybe its just me ...

  • In reply to Jammin502:

    He's an old school guy and the Cubs have a type they're looking for and I'm not sure he fits. It's possible. I just don't see it.

    Other than being a coach on a winning team, what do you know about Oquendo. Why do you think he fits?

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Another old school guy ? Tony Pena ? Pena would be ideal to mentor young Cub catchers as they surface to the big team.I'd rank Alomar Jr,Manny Acta and Pena as 1-2-3. I am starting to warm to the idea of Martinez in spite of his negative past time with the Cubs.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I think he is deserving of interview and a serious thought for the job because he has stayed I. St. Louis for along time. The haven't fired or matheny didn't want a different guy with him. He seems to be popular with the players. He has developed and worked with the cards infielders. He has worked with McKay so that wouldn't be new. I assume McKay could give FO office info on him.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    It doesn't tell you anything that St. Louis didn't hire him despite all those years there? They hired a guy with no experience instead. He hasn't been a serious candidate for any other job. Oquendo was considered in St. Louis for one reason -- he was familiar with and popular with his players but the Cards didn't consider him manager material. There are some who think those players would have taken advantage of him as manager because he wasn't a strong leader, just a good coach and a nice guy.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    No it doesn't tell me anything. Tells me his has been loyal to that organization. Doesn't it tell you anything that Acta has been fired twice? What if theo never hired Franconia? Some times guys get passed up because of timing and who was available at that time. A lot of factors can play into reasons why. Maybe those are his weaknesses but I guarantee that most if not all managers have been passed up for a job for some reason.

  • fb_avatar

    Ad I am not familiar enough with any of the potential candidates and because the asset/debit columns are extensive for all of them, I think we just need to trust the Front Office on this hire. It looks like they will be extensive and exhaustive in the interview and data collection side of it.

    My feeling is that it will be somebody who has yet to be mentioned. I still wonder why Dave McKay or Chris Bosio are not in contention, and John, is there anybody in the system who could move up that they like? I have no idea who the minor league managers are.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    It seems they are truly looking to hire from the outside. The Cubs have some well respected managers and coaches in their system. Right now Dave keller of Daytona has been incredible, but dont' think he makes the jump. McKay is a great coach, as is Bosio but I have heard nothing as far as them having a serious shot.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    John, I was thinking about the impressive Keller too, but I agree that he is not being considered at this time. He and hitting coach Mariano Duncan seem to do an excellent job and appear to work well together. I'm glad to have them both in the system.

  • I never considered Maddon a candidate because if you read his quotes from when he signed his contract extension he's perfectly happy in Tampa. He's there for the long run.

    "We're all motivated by different things," said Maddon. My motivation isn't the dollar sign. It never has been, never will be. My motivation is to do something that I love, where I love to do it, with people I enjoy doing it with. That matters."

    "It matters that you can show up every day and really like walking in the door, love walking in the door. That matters. And when you have the cooperation, and Andrew (Friedman, executive vice president) used the word 'trust,' at the end of the day, that's what it's all about."

    "This is really the only place I wanted to be," Maddon said. "I think this is the most interesting place to be involved in major-league baseball. … There's a lot of freedom to get better, there's a lot of freedom to think. You talk about outside the box — it's just about thinking and trying new ideas and trying new things. And it's about having the people and the resources to make these new things come to fruition, which we have."

    Reading that made me kinda sad because he's not leaving so I never got how fans are like "Theo should get Maddon" as if it was some easy task.

  • In reply to Yemi:

    Exactamundo. There's your money quote.

  • I'm liking Martinez, The combination of being a "new" school guy and having the experience of working with Madden looks pretty good to me.

  • fb_avatar

    I know that Theo and Jed are likely well past the discovery phase, and more into refining their list of candidates, but... if we could find a spot in our organization for Dave Duncan, I'd be pretty ecstatic. Is there a snowball's chance in hell he finds a home here? He said he wants to get involved with baseball again, but maybe not in a coaching role. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/dave-duncan-mulls-return-to-baseball-not-as-pitching-coach-091213

  • I'd rather see Dave Martinez than Acta or Hinch. The latter two have track records that leave something to be desired. If you can't get Maddon, get his student.

    Guillen would be a good reason to stop being a Cub fan after over 50 years. Ozzie is all about Ozzie, and not much else, a Bobby Valentine with a Latin flavor.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    I'm changing my mind about Martinez for non-baseball reasons. I've read too much about him in the past hour to ever want that guy for the manager position.

    My vote is for Alomar.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    I hate to drag up old mud, but there is absolutely no way that Martinez should be considered for the Cubs manager postion. It would be the ultimate slap in the face to Ryne Sandberg. Makes me want to puke just to think about it.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    But that is on Mrs. Sandberg more than Dave Martinez. Not justifying anything he did or downplaying the significance. Also, there were other players allegedly hopping on to that action as well. I feel badly for Ryne Sandberg, but how do we know he wasn't just as unfaithful? We have no idea what kind of husband he was so it should not even be a consideration. That was twenty-five years ago. Let it go.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    Ryno has been divorced for years. He's probably over it. My vote is Martinez. Weird thing is it's Ozzie's sons that soured me on him. That whole family is egomaniacs.

  • When the Girardi furor started, the two candidates I proposed on this site were Chip Hale and Roger McDowell. Hale for his outstanding record of winning at every level he has managed or coached and McDowell for his creative energy. Both also come from strong organizations that are adept at quickly developing young players into winning contributors. Hale is already a strong candidate in Seattle, so he will likely have his choices if he interviews well.

  • In reply to Cleme:

    Did you say Hale? I must have missed it. He's been a guy I've been bouncing around a bit. Don't know a lot about him but he is with a stats savvy team, has leadership experience, is part of a winning culture, has had success in the minors. Interesting candidate.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    I think Hale is the favorite in Seattle.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    He may well be. He'd be a great choice for them.

  • Are they even planning on meeting with Alomar? If not, I wonder if there was something they discovered when they met with him 2 years ago that didn't resonate with them. Or, possibly Francona told them something?... IDK that the new manager has to be a "Saber guy". As long as he is open to input.

  • In reply to HoosierDaddy:

    Well, it may well be that they have a pretty good handle on who he is after putting through the grinder last year. They may be looking at other guys first to see if they can find a better fit, they have a good idea who Alomar is right now.

  • I think the wrong attitude with fans is to look at managers last names instead of really keeping a open mind. Theo and jed can't look at last names, and that tough love thing is so overrated. That is probably why theo fired sveum,there is no love from the manager.

  • fb_avatar

    For what it's worth, David Kaplan said on Twitter it's unlikely that the Cubs will hire Acta. Said he "lost the clubhouse" in Cleveland.

    I don't know, but I think the FO would be aware of that before a seven-hour long interview which reportedly went very well. Seems to me they either don't think he had that much of a problem in Cleveland or they don't believe it was his fault.

  • Hi John, Last night on Sports Talk Live, Bruce Levine said that he talked with Greg Maddux and that Greg wants to be the Cubs manager. Bruce said that Greg told him that Bobby Cox has agreed to be his bench coach and Greg's brother Mike Maddux has agreed to be his pitching coach and that Henry Blanco has would be hsi bullpen coach.

    Even though Greg doesn't have managerial experience, I think Greg and Bobby Cox are 2 of the smartest men in baseball. I think this would be an incredible management team to help the Cubs young players develop. What do you think about this management team? Also how can we convince Theo and Jed to talk to Greg Maddux and Bobby Cox about this idea?

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    What they failed to tell you is that Bruce Levine was nibbling on peyote in the green room before the show.

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    'Suspect you're right.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    and guzzling boxed wine......

  • In reply to Mike Partipilo:

    Kind of upset Bruce didn't share, wonder if He saw the size of that chicken?

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    It's very intriguing how Bruce Levine got this Maddux issue all wrong. And if Levine actually spoke to Maddux, why would Maddux say these things and then tell Kaplan totally opposite. I find Kaplan's tweet and report far more in line with Maddux's thinking because it's the same thing he said several years ago when the Cubs asked him to be a coach/special assistant.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to JeffK:

    Because it's Bruce Levine lol. It made for fun discussion though so not completely without merit!

  • In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    Wow, that's crazy. I think if Greg Maddux wants to manage your team, you should just hire him on the spot. It might not work out, but he is just too special not to give him a shot. I'd hate to be that guy who didn't hire him.

    Having said that, I'm not sure this is a real thing.

  • In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    Bobby Cox would be a lousy bench coach. Kinda blows the whole scenario.

  • In reply to wastrel:

    In a perfect world, Manny Acta makes an ideal bench coach but he wants a leading gig and deserves that shot.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Why do you think he deserves a shot?

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Because he's a good, intelligent baseball man with a wide skill set. He's had 2 bad teams to manage. But I suppose only managers who win in the beginning of their careers deserve chances. Terrible move for Theo to have hired Francona in Boston.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Easy.... That is not what I said. You questioned oquendo and I gave u a honest answer. I questioned Acta and u get snippy. We all know coaches have to get there big break at some point. This will be his third team to possible manage in a fairly short amount of time. What were the reasons he was let go? Next year cubs team will likely struggle so I guy that didn't manage good teams twice is gonna manage a team that will most likely struggle next year? Interesting.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Sorry, didn't mean to sound that way. Guess I'm just weary of people saying guys can't succeed because they didn't do it early in their careers. The Cubs need to pick up a guy with good development skills and who can communicate the front office message down to the coaching staff and players. A knowledge of analytics helps because it makes communication easier -- it's the language of the FO.

    I have the same concern with Oquendo as I do with Acta -- is he a strong enough leader? But Acta has had a chance to learn from his mistakes and he also fits a lot of what the front office is looking for in terms of development, analytics, experience, etc.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    It is okay. I am all about giving guys a chance. I am in coaching so I know how that is. Is he really considered early in his career if been a manager twice and was fired? I am like you I want the best best person we can find to help us take this team to where we dream it should be. I just get the sense FO is kinda scrambling around now cause the number guy is off the board. I just don't want cubs to just settle. I just have red flags about him and I get points on oquendo. I just feel like the list we have now is pretty weak. Would you honestly be great knowing that Acta is the guy we hire?

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    The media was more about Girardi or nothing. Not the FO. They are well prepared and know exactly the kind of guy they want. They're not at all concerned about getting a big name or a guy with a winning record. They feel pretty good about the guys they've spoken to already and it looks like they are getting ready to do 2nd interviews. The gap between Girardi and everyone else isn't as big in the FOs as it is in the media/fans eyes.

    I'd feel pretty good with Acta. People forget he took a bad Indians team that had won 60 something games and two years later started 30-15 and wound up winning 80 games - with a pretty bad team. Finished 4th in Manager of the Year voting. He had some very bad teams in Washington -- and even those were injury plagued. This guy just hasn't had a fair shake and most FO people think he's one of the best baseball minds out there. I'd be very happy, actually.

  • In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    Greg Maddux as manager is a very intriguing concept.

    His unique baseball smarts and insights into the game might translate into a whole new breed of managers...someone who transcends the current trends in baseball thinking and managing style.

    His ability to relate to the pitching staff and help in their development is unquestioned.

    His ability to work with other players is more of an unknown right now, however, but I think he would do well in that area, as well.

    It would be a "Bold" move, but I would be willing to go for it.

  • I think getting someone whos best skill is working and mentoring
    young players is the way to go. Wiinning will happen as these
    prospects develop under the right people.

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    Agreed.

  • John... Thanks on the articles and updates. I enjoy reading them. Also I was involved in a conversation where my words were twisted. I didn't want you to take it wrong. When I said I didn't need to read your article, what that was meaning was I had already considered a lot of factors. The day Dale was fired I was thinking about all the characteristics I want in a manager and who I was hoping the cubs would be interested in. And I came up with I wanted someone who is a proven winner as a head coach or as someones top assistant. hope not upset.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    No worries WTNY.

    I think finding a proven winner is not going to be possible but they can definitely find someone who has worked in a winning environment as a top assistant. Guys like Dave Martinez, Chip Hale, Tony Pena, Torey Lovullo, and Sandy Alomar all fit that description.

  • I'll take Pena, please. I hope he's interviewed.

  • Was wondering if anyone had any news or thoughts on Oquendo? Is there anyone in the Tigers or Red Sox organization that is ready and want an opportunity to manage a big league team?

  • I don't know if Bruce Levine was on drugs or not, but I don't think he would say he talked to Greg Maddux unless it was true. Also, Bruce tweeted last Friday that Greg was serious about wanting to be the Cubs next manager.

    As a Cubs fan that has lived in Atlanta since 1992, I got to watch Greg Maddux and Bobby Cox work closely for many years, and they were amazing together. If Greg Maddux really wants to manage the Cubs and Bobby Cox wants to help him succeed, then Theo and Jed should at least talk to them to see if this is a real possibility.

    I think that Greg Maddux as the Cubs manager, Bobby Cox as his bench coach, Mike Maddux as his pitching coach and Henry Blanco as his bullpen coach would definitely help the Cubs achieve the long-term sustained success that Theo promised. John, please tell us what you think about this idea?

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    I just don't see Bobby Cox coming back and doing all that traveling. I'm skeptical on that part. Now maybe he would be a special assistant or a guy who figures prominently in Spring Training. That makes much more sense to me. That all being said, I can't think for Bobby Cox because I've never met him. Maybe he misses the free honey-roasted peanuts on flights. Maddux wanting to manage makes sense. I thought Greg Maddux worked in some capacity with the Cubs currently unless he left when Hendry did.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    Yup, Greg was a special asst. or something similar for Hendry. Greg went down to Texas to work with his brother soon after Mike didn't the Cubs managing job, if I remember correctly.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    pedro gomez is saying Rick Renteria is the front runner now for the job, podcast on ESPN

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    Interesting. Not sure how he knows that, but I do know a few top guys in the org really like him a lot.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    Who is Pedro Gomez? That is not a rhetorical question. Is he an ESPN anchor? I just have never heard of him. I just read three articles that said Acta is the favorite.

    I know Acta has generally been less than successful but it is important to look at the talent he had to manage.

    2007 his number one starter was Matt Chico. THE Matt Chico. Shawn Hill was his best starter. On offense other than Ryan Zimmerman he had crap to work with.

    Still his job with the 2012 Indians was pretty forgettable. What concerns me is his failure to get the production out of Chisenhall, Brantley, Masterson and Brantley that Francona did.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Michael Canter:

    meant and Ubaldo Jimenez, not Brantley twice.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    Brantley actually improved immensely under Acta, improving statistically every year by quite a bit.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    Bobby Cox is going into the Hall of Fame as a manager, one of these days. Why in the world would he do something like be a bench coach? He basically writes his own ticket with the Braves now, doing basically whatever he wants to do. I just don't ever see that changing.

    By the way, he reportedly still drops by the ballpark in Atlanta, nearly every game. And he does it early before everyone gets there, so as not to be a distraction.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to GAHillbilly:

    I think I stated I am 100% in agreement with you somewhere else in this comments section. At any rate, the Maddux thing is a false rumor anyway, Greg Maddux shot it down himself.

  • In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    I think Maddux needs to spend a few years riding buses to be taken as a serious candidate. I like that he is lining up an experienced coaching staff, but he's got less experience that Ausmus for crying out loud.

  • In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    I think those are all great baseball men but, with all due respect to Bruce, I don't see it happening. The impression I get is that the Cubs are looking for someone more like Francona, Maddon...someone with good leadership, developmental skills, and an understanding of the modern game.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Hi John, Thank you for the reply. I really enjoy reading your articles.

    A friend who did watch Sports Talk Live last night confirmed that Bruce Levine said he talked with Greg Maddux and Greg definitely said that Bobby Cox agreed to be his bench coach if the Cubs offered him the manager job. I wish I could find the audio or the video so we could hear exactly what Bruce Levine said.

    I agree that it probably won't happen, but I think Greg Maddux and Bobby Cox could really help our young players be successful. Also, Hank White (Henry Blanco) could help Wellington Castillo become an all star catcher. I just hope Theo and Jed consider this option.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to CubsFan4Life:

    I saw the replay of that earlier today. Levine looked glassy eyed and lit. Kind of the same look Harry would get when he'd start smacking his lips. And his exact words were, "Some of his former teammates would be on his staff...Well, Henru Blanco would be his bullpen coach."
    So I'm not so sure if that conversation wasn't more conjecture than fact. Take it with a grain of Saltalamacchia.

  • fb_avatar

    I'd like to see Omar Vizquel get on the staff. Don't think he has the experience to manage. But as a third base coach, I'd vote for it.

  • fb_avatar

    "Bob Brenly...while everyone likes to point to how he won a World Series ring, they conveniently leave out how he had the two best pitchers in baseball when he won..."

    1) He did have the two best pitchers in baseball in 2001 but after that people conveniently leave out the rest of the staff was held together with duct tape and baling wire. Byung Hyun Kim was good reliever (outside of his WS implosion) but the rest of the starting staff consisted of Brian Anderson, Albie Lopez, Miguel Batista & Robert Ellis. The bullpen included Greg Swindell, Bobby Witt & Mike Morgan. That would have been a decent starting staff...in 1992. He had no one under 31 as a regular in his line up either. mark Grace on his last legs. 35 year old Jay Bell & Matt Williams. Tony Womack?!

    "...and then completely lost his team the very next season and didn't survive the year."

    They won the series in 2001. They had a better record in 2002. Had a winning record in 2003. He was then fired during the 2004 season.

    I am not at all an advocate for Brenly to get the Cubs job but the above criticism was just not accurate.

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    Thanks. Should have looked that up.. memory not as good as it used to be. There was a steady decline after 2002 though and then it finally blew up in 2004. Not a fan. And his heavy handed criticism of some players probably doesn't give him much of a chance either.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    I'm not an advocate of the celebrity manager but this list of names is hard to get excited about. Theo talked about people with experience and track records of developing and we've got a list that includes a two time wash out (Acta) a guy who many insiders have said was an epic failure and overwhelmed (Hinch) and the manager for Team Mexico (Renteria). The best candidate is the guy that banged Sandberg's wife. REALLY?! How am I supposed to get excied about this?

    They have to get this right. Frankly, they got the first one VERY wrong which doesn't speak well of their 8 hour, meat grinder, interview process. If they don't get it right then FO heads have to roll. FO's don't get three managers/head coaches unless they win (ex. Billy Bean).

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    Did you read my article the other day on how other top managers started? Francona with 4 straight losing seasons (and lost his clubhouse in Boston), Joe Maddon started his career with 8 straight losing seasons. Tampa hired him after 6 losing minor league seasons and as the guy who got passed over for many previous job. Joe Torre was horrible with the Mets, led the Braves into contention, then couldn't make the playoffs with the Cards, then won the WS with the Yanks.

    There is nothing more overrated, in my opinion, then the idea that you need to get a "proven winner" or a brand name manager. If that were the case, those guys would have never been hired.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    Didn't Maddon manage the Angels before Mike Scioscia? Or was he just a coach? Or am I completely wrong.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    He was a coach there. Managed in their minor league system, though.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    Yup, you are correct. He filled in as manager for a few games for some reason. 19-10 with the Angels in 1999.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    According to the Angels' website, Maddon had a 33-26 record as manager in 1996, 1998 & 1999. Don't remember if this was a fill-in thing or interim when somebody got fired or what.

    http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/ana/history/managers.jsp

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    When Maddon and Francona had those losing years did there records improve? Boston's and Tampa's front office must have seen growth and development happening. To me Dale firing wasn't about W-L, it was about not developing players, and mismanaging the bullpen , and not making great in game decisions.

    To me a proven winner means someone who has learned under a great guy or been a huge contribution to a team success. That is what I want.

    What does your gut tell you about job?

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    Francona didn't have "losing years" with the Red Sox. He inherited a championship caliber team. Francona didn't have to develope players during a stretch of 90 & 100 loss seasons. Francona & Maddon are apples and oranges.

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    Was just going off another post. Doesn't mean info was correct i guess.

  • In reply to WaitTilNextYear:

    You're talking about development and things beneath the surface -- there was no proven winner in either choice. But Theo and company did their homework and made those two guys their finalists. They know what they're doing.

    I think they'll look for the same kind of qualities they did then. Gut tells me that choice comes down to Acta, Renteria, and Martinez and possibly Alomar, but I think he may be more of a fallback. I think Acta's leadership ability will be his biggest question while lack of managerial experience will hurt Renteria and Martinez.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Things beneath the surface is what allowed front office to retain Maddon and Francona. It wasn't wins and losses that got Dale. I was willing to give Dale a chance to prove himself as a winner and he couldn't.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    I did, I did and I agreed with most of it. But for every Francona & Maddon that is hired in MLB over a decade there are 20 Sveum's. This is the first time since Theo has been hired I'm not saying, "I'll trust the FO to make the right decision."

    We're still on the front nine of this development course and Sveum was their mulligan. They don't get another (re: manager).

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Pooch7171:

    I hope Theo reads this so he realizes the peril his job is in!

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    Well, when you put it that way!

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Pooch7171:

    I understand what you've been writing and agree with you John about getting a "proven" manager, but I can't help feeling the same as Pooch about these candidates.

  • In reply to Gary Kueper:

    I think everyone feels safer with a proven manager. The Cubs have done it with Lou Piniella and Dusty Baker and they had some success.

    But every manager was unproven at some point, and many were more than unproven, they had come off of multiple unsuccessful seasons before they found success in the right environment. That's the key, find the guy who fits what you're trying to do with your organization. I think Sveum didn't work out partly because the FO didn't have a 100% handle on the organization and were stunned to find out how much development was still needed at the MLB level. Had they known their prospects and young players would be so ill-prepared, I think they would have hired someone else. In fact, I think the list would have looked more like the one they have now.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I think that's as good as it has been put John.

  • Thanks!

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Gary Kueper:

    I want to reiterate. I am not advocating for a "proven" manager. I'm simply trying to hold Theo to his own words in his post firing presser and the list of candidates seems to fall short.

  • In reply to Pooch7171:

    "We're sure that Theo is giving your opinion its due consideration."

  • Even though we just had 2 bad seasons I hope Theo is not
    going to change his long term plan. Also hiring a manager
    for the wrong reasons will not work.

  • Not at all surprised about Madden being out of the picture but I would hope that Hoyerstein has knowledge of the key criteria used for identifying a potential manager with those skills and characteristics. I can't help but to think there are some hidden gems out there. As with players, scouting for a manager is crucial. What an opportunity!

  • In reply to kansasblackhawk:

    They absolutely can because Joe Maddon was one of the two finalists when Theo and Jed hired Terry Francona in Boston. I think if the team had been rebuilding, they would have hired Maddon.

  • I'm not impressed by Renteria, or the Padre's staff the last few years in general. They've been at or below their Pythagorean (I know it's not a perfect stat) for the last four years, his leadership roles have not been that impressive as he just grinded through the Pads system and the Mexico team he managed in the WBC was wildly out of control and under-performed (didn't make it out of round one and were beat by team Italy), and young players just have not taken the next step. All of the prospects to come up in SD the past few years have fizzled out. Cameron Maybin, Yonder Alonso, Chase Headley has taken steps backwards. Everth Cabrera and Mat Latos are the only successful ones and one was suspended for PEDs and the other I doubt he had much of a hand in developing as Latos was a pitcher and only there with Renteria for one season. I'm not impressed in the least.

  • I was just listening to Buster Olney on ESPN Radio a few minutes ago (Scott Van Pelt Show), and he said that he thinks Renteria is the favorite for the Cubs job.

  • In reply to Ryno23:

    That's two ESPN guys now. Pedro Gomez said it earlier.

  • I actually voted for Renteria in the pole, but it was because I was sceptical of the other candidates. None reach out and grab you so I hope their is something on all that just isn't obvious, but fits.

  • Could the FO be looking a place holder that's good with young players still?

  • I actually like the options the Cubs have left, but the one I don't get is Renteria. Could someone please explain this to me? Maybe I'm totally missing the boat here, but I don't see anything going for him that is more impressive than Acta, Martinez, or Pena.

  • In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    I actually haven't been able to confirm whether Pena is even a candidate. That is just my speculation and some talk with industry sources outside the organization.

    As for Renteria one person I talked to didn't think he'd be the guy when all said and done, but you have to think Renteria comes with high praise from a big chunk of the Cubs FO. He is well-respected as a teacher and a guy who knows ballplayers well, but that's all I really have on him.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Gotcha. Just after looking into it, no real studs, Latin or not, have come out of that Padres system lately so I don't how he can be called a developer. Also his WBC team was wild and out of control and really under-performed.

  • In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    Is your first point Renteria's fault, or the Padres FO's fault? Can't make a silk purse out a sow's ear, or something like that.

    I dunno, really, just askin'.

  • In reply to CubsFanInNorway:

    You're right, there definitely needs to be some blame put on the FO for that, but there still has to be some blame on the player's coaches at the top level. As for the second part, if he couldn't keep a team under control for one month playing for essentially just pride, imagine what a full season in Chicago with the media and big egos would turn into?

  • I like the idea of getting Maddon's protege. Remember Dave Martinez when he came up with the Cubs. But I must admit I'm glad I'm not making the decision. Is there a consensus best "development guy" in this mix?

  • In reply to Bilbo161:

    That's what I thought at first. However, I've read about an hour's worth about Martinez's alleged history while he was with the Cubs as a player, and there is absolutely no way I would like to see him get the job. It would be a huge slap in the face to Ryne Sandberg for Martinez to get this job that Sandberg once coveted, and it would be a public relations problem for the Cubs because of that. Martinez can stay in Florida or go somewhere else to manage. There is no way he should put the Cub uniform back on.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    I did read some of that, but I tend to blame the cheater not the helper. Maybe you are right though. Probably should be considered unless he is otherwise the best candidate.

  • In reply to Bilbo161:

    If he did it, he knew she was married to a teammate, and he did it anyway. Despicable.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    Is there proof of this or just rumor and hearsay ?

  • In reply to Rbirby:

    What kind of proof of such a thing do you think is ever available? People seldom confess to this. However, the word does get around. There's 'he said-she said". Google it and read what's out there. Then take into consideration that Palmeiro and Martinez were both traded away from the Cubs shortly after.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    So riddle me this ? Why did the Cubs require by trade Martinez in 2000 if this really happened ? I learned a long time to go to take "he said-she said" comments, especially in this town, with a grain of salt. They usually end up being BS.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    He should done like me and refuse to return Cindy's calls.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Good man.....I thought I was the only one.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    The Cubs can't bank their future on whether or not Sandberg's feelings may be hurt. Ryno is a Phillie now. Besides, he may be thankful to Martinez for motivating him to on to a strong, healthy marriage.
    If Martinez is the best candidate, hire him.

  • In reply to clarkaddison:

    If you have ever been in that position, you will sincerely doubt that Sandberg would ever be thankful to Martinez. That kind of rationalization doesn't go far with the offended. The hurt is still there, buried, but there all the same. And if you think that many Cub fans would not be upset, think again. Cub fans are loyal to legends, and that could be reflected to some degree financially through loyal attendance gone awry. Why risk it? It would not play well through public relations.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    If Dave Martinez was a good manager and the Cubs performed well that would be all that matters. You really need to let go of this. It almost sounds personal.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    I disagree. We don't know how Martinez would perform as a manager, but why hire someone who dissed one of your legends when there are others who could probably do just as well? An organization needs to consider a person's past. It's not personal to me, but I think the organization needs to show some respect for employees who have performed loyally in the past. Otherwise, it says something about the organization. You want to win with class.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    It was twenty five years ago. It was irrelevant at the time and it is even more irrelevant now. If Martinez is the most qualified candidate as determined by the front office you hire him. Jeez, they let Sandberg walk away from the organization without hesitation. Why on earth would they care about something that happened to Sandberg when Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer were teenagers? I think winning trumps everything, even this, which is nowhere near as significant as you want it to be.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Michael Canter:

    Mark Grace was linked to Cindy Sandberg as well. Nobody called for him to be traded. Not only that, Sandberg sat out in 1995. Palmeiro and Martinez were traded in 1988, so I am assuming they were not teammates when the infidelities occurred, and if they were, then the Cubs, the great protectors of the Sandberg legacy, let that stew for seven years anyway. Grace was Sandberg's teammate in 1995 however. Grace didn't leave until 2000 anyway when the Cubs no longer wanted his services. You are really making this out to be way, way bigger than it really is, and all of it is alleged anyway.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    It was not irrelevant at the time. You just want to think so. It raised a red flag at the time, and it raised some questions. There are Cub fans who remember.

    Winning does not trump everything.

    Winning with class trumps everything.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    As you said, Palmeiro and Martinez were traded in 1988. They were teammates of Sandberg's when the infidelity occured. Based on what I've read, Mark Grace was not involved, although some thought that he was, so he was not traded.

    Sandberg sat out 1995, trying to retrieve his marriage, but it was too late.

    Martinez came back to the Cubs in 2000 three years after Sandberg retired as a player.

    Was it all Palmeiro's and Martinez's fault? Of course not, his wife was involved. However, what kind of teammate does that to another teammate? Is such a person going to manage the team? Even if he knows he made a mistake years ago, I think that the Cubs can do better and there is bound to be someone else who can do just as well. So look elsewhere, Cubbies, and Martinez can go elsewhere too ofr his managing opportunity.

    If you think there are Cub fans who don't remember the whole seamy thing, you're wrong.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    Do you honestly think sexual history should be included in the interview process? Martinez was a kid when this supposedly happened!

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    There is an incredible hole in that timeline so yes, it was irrelevant at the time. Sorry dude. Get over it. And who are you to say that Martinez wouldn't win with class? Because you have a bug up your ass about something that is more on the wife of the player rather than the player? Cindy Sandberg looks like a three-ring circus if those rumors and that heresy is true.

    Jeez, we are talking about the 2014 Cubs, not the 1988 Cubs. Maybe we should tear down the lights, too.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    Not only that, Martinez came back to play for the Cubs in 2000. Dude, NOBODY cares about Martinez and whatever it is you define as Cubs sacrilege.

  • In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    The soviet union still existed when he "dissed" Ryno. Time to let go, man.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to nmu’catsbball:

    The Cubs were 45-41 and in second place when the trade of Dave Martinez for Mitch Webster was made. The trade inspired the Cubs to go 30-46 and finish in fourth place.

    But that was 1988. Webster would be around in 1989 to prove his real worth.

    His real worth was apparently on the bench. In spring training he lost his center field job to Jerome Walton and Mitch shifted to left. A month later, a nagging hamstring injury forced him to the bench and he found himself platooning with Dwight Smith up on his return. In season acquisitions of luminaries like Lloyd McClendon and Gary Varsho cut into his playing time even further.

    But Frey has no regrets. “What did Martinez do after he left us? Nothing. He only got 1300 more hits after he left.”

    Mitch Webster’s legacy will always be remembered in Chicago. After all, he’s the guy Jim Frey traded for because Jim thought the other guy was banging Cindy Sandberg. It bothered Sandberg so much that by 1995 he had to take a year off to cope. Of course, I am sure it had nothing to do with a diminishing skill set.

    Martinez returned to the Cubs in 2000 for 18 games.

    That’s something.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    You need to get over this. It is almost delusional. Nobody cares except you. Sandberg took a year off because his skills were declining and the Cubs sucked. It had nothing to do with a series of affairs that happened seven years earlier.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    Sorry about your being upset, but I'm not delusional, and I really don't need to get over anything. But perhaps Dave Martinez isn't everything you hope he might be. If it were my decision, I think I might look elsewhere. Granted it was awhile ago, but he really dissed a teamate in a major, major way.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    "Nobody cares except you" is a good example of projecting your own opinion on the rest of the world, or at least on the discussion.
    Attempting to belittle someone that way does not prove your point; in fact, it makes it more questionable.
    As a matter of fact, I also care about that situation because it affects a person's character. I prefer a man of character to lead the team.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    I say Cindy Sandberg dissed her husband in a bad, bad way, if this is all in fact true. I also could care less about something that happened in 1988, wasn't resolved by the Cubs until 1995, and wasn't significant enough to keep the Cubs from reacquiring Dave Martinez in 2000, to which you did say, by that time, Sandberg was already gone from the Cubs having retired three years previously.

    Newsflash - Ryne Sandberg is not part of the Cubs organization now. And your arguments carry little validity. And if you think that matters anyway to Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer and Tom Ricketts, you may not be delusional but you are deluding yourself. They let Sandberg walk away from this organization without any attempt to keep him with the club. The ship has sailed. Let go of the anchor. It's okay. It doesn't make you a bad Cubs fan.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    If he won a WS, public relations would be fine!

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Tinker Evers Chance:

    Ryno was my favorite player growing up, by far. That being said, he was never a serious candidate for the Cubs job as he is totally different from this front office, philosophically. Also, I seriously hope who somebody did or didn't sleep with 20 years ago doesn't have any affect on this managerial search!

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    Wait, guys... How can we be absolutely sure that Manny Acta has not participated in any infidelity? And Sandy Alomar, Jr? Well his face has "I'd hit that" written all over it.

    "Class" is one of the most overused words in the world of baseball. And it's constantly used in reference to guys we don't know and will never meet. How are we so sure our favorite players are swell guys? Hell, a large portion of them cheated their way to the top. The steroid thing i refuse to be an apologist for. That was wrong. But the Sandberg/ Martinez thing? It's so much hearsay, a lot of gray area and, most importantly, got nothing to do with baseball.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Dan Bradley:

    You're preaching to the choir! I don't know if Martinez is the right guy for the job. But, if he's not it has nothing to do with who he did or didn't sleep with when he was 24!

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Dan Bradley:

    This.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Michael Canter:

    At Kenny Hubbs. Way out of line but thanks for your comment. As I understand the way fan forums work, projecting opinion is precisely the whole point. And for the record, heresy is far more questionable than fact. Like I said, nobody cares about what happened a quarter of a century ago. Well, two of you do. We finally bring in a front office to change a wretched 105 years+ culture and here are two guys who refuse to let go. Ridiculous.

    Hey hey, holy mackerel. I'm all for nostalgia and reverence when warranted and I really dig the handle and the reverence it indicates. But just because you believe one half of a sketchy story doesn't make it true. And even if it is, as I said, who cares? I'm more concerned with finding the right manager, not holding a ridiculous, circumstantial grudge against a player who was brought back to the organization a decade later anyway.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    I don't know about "heresy" here unless it's what you call disagreement. I think you are referring to "hearsay". With such clarity gaffes, you might not want to call others "Ridiculous" so readily.

    And you failed (in your umpteenth rant on this subject) to address my point: Character counts.
    At least it does to some of us.
    If character doesn't matter to you, your criticism of others is shallow.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to StillMissKennyHubbs:

    I'm on an iPad and you want to correct my spelling and grammar? As far as character, there is no proof that Dave Martinez has character issues. I didn't bother to address that because it is your opinion and further, I don't know Dave Martinez or any of the other managerial candidates, so I cannot offer an opinion one way or the other.

    I want the best managerial candidate available. Who that person chooses to sleep with is his own business. And leave my iPad out of this. And, you are free to grade my grammar and spelling anytime, but if you are pointing out shallow arguments, really, there are none more shallow. Give me a break.

  • As long as he can teach and mentor young players and knows
    that in 2014 winning is not everything

  • fb_avatar

    Unrelated but fun, vote for the Milb.com plays and players of the year:
    http://www.milb.com/news/awards/y2013/index.jsp

    As much as I wanted to vote for Baez for his diving stop to preserve the no no, I had to give Nieuwenhuis the nod!

  • fb_avatar

    I am still rooting for Jason Varitek. Who has Theo's number or e-mail so I may make a formal suggestion?

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    I'll get him on the horn right now.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    It is so cool to know someone with the connections you have!

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    Just go to Theo's house. It works in Houston with Matt Schaub....

  • I really hope Pena emerges as a canidate. I think he checks a lot of boxes.

  • If we're not going to be buyers at the deadline, we may as well have a Renteria.

  • fb_avatar

    I voted for Sandy Alomar Jr. I like the idea of hiring a catcher as manager. They tend to be very good managers. Also he came close to getting several other jobs including the Cubs. The FO office said no mangers with out previous experience and he still almost got it so they must have been impressed. Dave Martinez would be good too with his ties to Maddon. On a side note John has mentioned this before but Theo and Jed don't care what Dave may or may not have done to Sandberg. Theo was in college and Jed might have been in high school when that incident happened. I guarantee they don't care and honestly they may not even know it happened.

  • In reply to Sean Holland:

    I think maybe Ricketts would care.

  • In reply to Oneear:

    I think he might also.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Oneear:

    I hope I never get asked in a job interview "Were you ever sexually irresponsible in your early 20's?"...I'd be screwed.

  • In reply to Matt McNear:

    ^ LOL.. Thank you.

  • I really don't know what people mean when people say Brenly and Sandberg are "old school".

    Would anyone care to elaborate? Are we simply talking about bunting in some situations where Sabermeteric guys do not? Are we saying these guys are completely ignorant of new metrics?

    I'm a bit confused by this "old school" reference because it seems modern day GM's like a mix.

  • In reply to givejonadollar:

    Some folks are way overboard on statistical outcomes and think things like bunts and moving the runners over into scoring position are poisons to be stamped out of baseball. That stuff is what they call old school. While i'm not one to want to see a lot of free outs as it were, I do think there is a time and a place for all of those things in the game. Outcomes depend on so many specific things. You can't use the average outcome to predict them all. But the stat-heads do and they ignore the "old school" thinking to a fault.

  • fb_avatar

    Old School are the guys the movie Moneyball tries to make look like idiots.

    Studies have shown that a mix of old school (think five tools and character, visual scouting) and new school thinking (Sabermetrics, data collection, etc.) is the most ideal way to run an organization. It is the ratio of that mix that is usually up for debate.

  • In reply to Michael Canter:

    Agree, a manager should not "manage by the book" all the time
    Bring in your closer only in the 9th can cost you many games

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    Yes, a much more reasonable approach.

  • I've been watching a lot of MLB network's coverage of the postseason . The more I see of Joey Cora, the more I like the guy. Clearly not reason enough alone for the Cubs to hire him but he does check several of the boxes. Or how about Joey Cora as a bench coach? He knows what that job's all about. Plus he's another one of those Vanderbilt guys that seem to floating around lately. I heard his name a while back for the Seattle job I think. Might be a good interview.

  • No celebrity manager? So Jay-Z is crossed off the list just like that. What about Murray Hewitt from "Flight of the Conchords"? He's probably gettable.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to SkitSketchJeff:

    Hey, maybe Jay-Z could bring in Cano at a discount! Robbi's WAR would probably be higher than any manager could cost the club!

  • In reply to SkitSketchJeff:

    Jay-Z learned to manage a budget being a drug dealer. To bad he wasn't a pimp then he would know how to manage a roster.

  • Hmmm, so who would make the most interesting celebrity manager? Maybe someone that could convince the City that they better make a deal on Wrigley to keep the hire from happening?

  • John, part time poster, full time reader. Thanks for all your hard work and analysis. Between u Felz and the posts and links. I'm spoiled.
    As far as mgr choices go here's one man's opinion. If I were a GM I'd do WHATEVER it takes to get Greg Maddux in the dugout in any capacity. Ideally bench coach; calling pitches and setting up defense. And him working with pitchers and Johnson would be awesome I'd think.
    Getting him in a dugout is going to be a coo? for the team that is able to. To me that move would improve the team more then any other move. Thoughts?

  • Oops I also wanted to repost this link that was posted in support.
    http://espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3336514

  • Heading is:

    HOW IN THE WORLD DID THIS GUY WIN 347 GAMES?

Leave a comment