Cubs Game Notes: More on the Garza rumor front

Cubs Game Notes: More on the Garza rumor front

Some are thinking Matt Garza's last start with the Cubs may have indeed been his last start as a Cub.  We shall see...

I'm off to Kane County tonight so hopefully they hold off for one more night.

News and Notes

  • ESPN's Buster Olney reports, that "The Cubs are "making progress" in trade negotiations surroundin Matt Garza, and they're actively talking with the RangersRed SoxBlue JaysIndians and Dodgers. They may also still be involved in talks with the Orioles as well as other NL West teams."
  • Eduardo Encina, a beat writer for the Baltimore Sun tweeted that the Orioles turned down an offer (h/t to Cubs Den reader @chistyle82) for Garza before making the deal for Feldman.  The trade would have sent 21 year old AAA SS/2B Jonathan Schoop and LHP Eduardo Rodriguez to the Cubs.  Frankly, I think that was a pretty fair deal and if the Orioles did indeed turn it down, it would seem to me that A) they either overvalue their prospects or B) the lack of depth in the system prevented them from pulling the trigger.  Those two may well be their best prospects other than Dylan Bundy and Kevin Gausman -- and there is not much after that.
  • In case you missed it, we heard earlier regarding the Blue Jays that the Cubs may have been interested in a package that included former top prospect Kyle Drabek and LHP Sean Nolin.  Both pitchers could conceivably join the rotation next year.  It's believed there was a 3rd prospect involved.
  • Olney also talked to Jason Stark on the Baseball Tonight podcast.  According to MLB Trade Rumors, "Olney said he'd be "shocked" if Garza was still on the Cubs by the All-Star break, but Stark hears that the Cubs may prefer to wait for a team to meet their price, even if it means waiting until the end of July. Stark and Olney agree that Garza will have the highest price tag of any player on the trade market.
  • With all due respect to Olney, I think I agree with Stark on the note above.  That sounds more like Epstein and Hoyer than rushing a deal to get one done.   Garza is their last good short term asset they can cash in and I can't imagine them settling for less than what they believe is his full worth just to get it done early.  That doesn't necessarily mean a deal won't get done early -- but I believe a team will have to step up and meet their demands to entice the Cubs to trade before the deadline.

Today's Lineup:

  1. Sappelt CF
  2. Castro SS
  3. Navarro C
  4. Soriano LF
  5. Ransom 3B
  6. Rizzo 1B
  7. Hairston RF
  8. Barney 2B
  9. Samardzija SP

What to Watch:

  • Felzz: Dave Sappelt- With center fielders going down and trade rumors abound, a player like Sappelt could grab himself a spot with some inspired play. Don't think he will. But he could. So an extra inspired effort might be in the cards.
  • John: Jeff Samardzija caused some waves when he voiced his displeasure about losing Scott Feldman and Steve Clevenger.  That didn't sit to well with some.   A bad outing isn't going to make it any easier so he needs to rise to the occasion and pitch well.  Knowing Samardzija, he'll go out on the mound and pitch a great game.
  • Tom:  I'm looking for the new bullpen guys to make an impact today.

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Comments

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  • You know- the Cubs might have done better with the Feldman trade than what they were going to get from Bmore for Garza. Schoop might be a top 50 prospect and Rodriguez has plenty of upside, but if Arrietta and Strop reach their potential it works out better IMO-- we don't really need another 2B/SS anyway. And the Os might have jumped too soon- should Theo decide to make a blockbuster deal with Boston for Garza + other players Baltimore will have been trumped by not being a bit reasonable with some lower level prospects.

  • In reply to Paulson:

    I was kind of thinking that too, actually.

  • John, where do Jonathan Schoop and Eduardo Rodriguez rank as prospects? Are either top 25, top 50?

    As I noted to your prior article, it appears I was unrealistic to hope/believe we'd get a top 25 guy for Garza. In my view if we don't get at least one high-probability IMPACT player in return -- someone like Soler, Baez, Almora, Bryant -- in return, I'd much rather see the Cubs hang onto him and sign to whatever a fair market 3 or 4 year contract would be.

    Do you think we will get a "high-probability" impact guy in return? Are such prospects ranked 51 to 100? If you don't get such a player, are you in favor of moving Garza instead of signing him to a market contract?

  • In reply to Nondorf:

    I'd guess they're both fringe top 100 guys.

  • In reply to Nondorf:

    I agree with you, nondorf. Get impact talent or keep Garza.

  • In reply to Nondorf:

    Neither are top 50 guys. Maybe top 100.

  • In reply to Nondorf:

    Except there is no reason for Garza to accept a 3 or 4 year deal. The only short term deal we may have ever got Garza on, was if he was injured most of the year, he may have accepted the 1 yr 13m qualifying offer to try and set himself up for FA better after next year. But now that he is back healthy and dealing, not only is he the best pitcher available in the trade market. He is the best pitcher available in FA this winter. He has no reason to accept anything less than 5 years on a contract. In fact he will probably get 6 years on the open market at around 17-20 per year.

    Garza is just not going to bring back a top 25 guy, and he will not accept a short term contract. Both are unrealistic. We can probably get a fringe top 50 guy and a fringe top 100 guy. If we get that we should be happy.

  • In reply to mjvz:

    Can't Cubs test waters with him right now? What is fair market for him? Based on Sanchez and EJax deals, something like 4 years for $60M sounds about right. You think Garza would turn that down right now? He'd be nuts to.

    I gotta think Theo & Co. Know by now if they can get an impact prospect. If they can't, try to sign him NOW. If Garza won't take something like 4/$60M well then I get it and Cubs gotta get what they can.

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    In reply to Nondorf:

    And what happens if Garza doesn't sign? The problem is that this off season the Cubs have clearly established values for free agents and won't go over that number on any of them, given the stage of the rebuild, which is why Anibel Sanchez is in Detroit and Edwin Jackson is in Chicago.

    You can demand impact talent all you want, but the market will dictate what you get. If Baltimore turned down a package that included 2 of their top 5 prospects, chances are that other teams will as well. Plus, each start he makes for Chicago adds time decay to the potential return, UNLESS supply exceeds demand at the deadline. At the end of the day, you have to take the best offer out there or have Garza signed before the season ends. Or be happy with the compensatory pick that comes with tendering him after the season.

    The problem with a player in Garza's contract situation is ultimately we are showing our hand before we play it.

    Some team will overpay for Garza (hello Los Angeles). The Cubs will not. They need to trade him.

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    In reply to Jive Wired:

    #Demand exceeds supply. I am forever an economics dyslexic.

  • Agreed on that Orioles trade. I know Schoop is well thought of, but I don't get it. It doesn't seem like he's hit that well at the upper levels, although he's super young for AAA. Everyone seems to like him in lieu of his numbers, though, so what do I know.

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    He's well-liked by a lot of scouts. I got a chance to see him in the Fall League and to be honest, he outplayed Javy Baez most of the time. Of course, he's not a better player, but I can see why some like him.

    But, yeah, not exactly a thrilling trade. Some potential there, but hoping for more.

  • I am so sick of Keith Moreland. He is awful.

  • In reply to Eddie:

    We have different tastes. I think Moreland does a great job.

  • In reply to DaveP:

    He's no Lou Boudreau, but you do get more analysis out of Moreland than Santo. I do miss Ronnie's passion though.

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    John,

    As usual, LOVE the blog! You, Felzz, and Loxas all do a great job! A couple of questions: With all of the hype surrounding the Garza trade rumors, what is your opinion on what they can get for Gregg? Also, do you think that with Sweeney and Bogusevic getting hurt they are more likely to hold on to DeJesus for the time being? Would love to hear your thoughts! Additionally, I'm going to be at the Cougars game tonight as well! Hope to see you there! Thanks!

  • In reply to Kevin Campbell:

    Thanks Kevin!

    I think there's a possibility they keep all 3 players. The Cubs still control DeJesus for another year, so they're not eager to deal him from what I hear.

  • Note to Samardzija......if you want to be consider an "Ace" to your club.....one of the things an 'Ace" does not do is give up an RBI single to an opposing pitcher who can't hit........

    looks bad when you want to talk about a new contract with Theo.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    To be fair, what was he supposed to do?

    Start throwing off speed pitches in a 1-2 count to the pitcher with 2 outs? (And, runners on 1st and 2nd, which could have risked a wild pitch)

    Liriano did a good job. Recognize it for what it is.

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    I don't think E-Rod and Schoop would've been enough. Wright makes that deal better in my opinon. It's not like we're talking about a highly rated system.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Agreed. A team like Boston or Texas would have made that deal in a heartbeat. For the Orioles, that pretty much cleans them out.

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    If the reports of Schoop/Rodriguez and Drabek/Nolin are correct, it's hard to reconcile that with a request of Webster/Owens from Boston. This is like that old Sesame Street song: one of these things is not like the other.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    There's no way the Red Sox do a Webster/Owens. I'd be delighted to have just one of those guys in a trade.

    That being said, I can't emphasize enough how much I hope I'm wrong. :)

  • Samardzija laboring mightily...

  • In reply to Csanad:

    ... maybe he doesn't want to get traded like his buddies did (or eventually will).

    all kidding aside, it is fustrating to see our TOP guy struggle and give up hits after walks after hits. all this looking into the future thing is nice (trades, prospects, draft), but, boy, it really would not hurt the fan-spirit to see a solid game now and then.

  • I really hope we get a better package of prospects for Garza then have Kyle Drabek be the center piece. I would be extremely disappointed. Yes there is upside there but so far he really hasn't put it together in the majors yet.

  • In reply to CubbiesFan92:

    it seems like when I read that rumor the first time it was Drabek and another prospect but it wasn't known who the center piece would be. So if that's on the table hopefully there is significantly more.

  • In reply to CubbiesFan92:

    I'd be despondent if Garza only got us Drabek. He wouldn't even be the main part of a trade with Toronto IMO.

  • Kyle Drabek......Cubs GM Hendry was after him about 2 or 3 years ago before he had arm issues.......time to move on to someone better.....

    if Garza pitches again, it will against the White Sox make up game I believe.........

    what are the latest rumors on Villanueva ?........

    if Garza was a Yankee or a Met, and the Yankees or Mets were trying to trade for him, the N.Y. sportswriters would have a different view of who they want than what they are saying Garza is worth as a Cub........as a Cub, Garza is a worthless.....if Garza was a NY player, they think he was the next Tom Seaver.....

    Anyone still believe Samardzija is an 'Ace" and is better than Kershaw?...........come on, where are all those Shark supporters ?

    Jeff, you kept your mind on your pitching and not on your GM's trade moves, you might be a better pitcher someday........

    Hopefully, Theo & Jed will send this guy on his way someday also.....this clubhouse needs leaders....not complainers.

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    In reply to CubsTalk:

    You win. Shark's awful and should be traded immediately. Hopefully we can get someone as good as Sean Gallagher or Zach Jackson for him. I think I'm going to stop posting here since you're so brilliant and I'm only lowering the caliber of discussion here.

    Peace out.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    go cry a river of beer over Jeff tonight with your buddies.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    You're FUNny!

  • No later than the All-star break just go for the best deal.
    Waiting for 1 extra prospect might kill a good deal

  • Sure seems like the Cubs continue to pursue guys that are mlb ready or at least at the upper levels. They must feel the waves of talent are are the most lacking in those places.

  • In reply to KSCubsFan:

    I agree. lots of good stuff at the lower levels but not much at the upper levels Iowa in particular.

  • In reply to kansascub:

    going to be interesting to see what the Cubs get because of the pitching situation at AA and AAA.

  • I expect a return similar to the ones mentioned in the article. He cannot be offered arbitration by the acquiring team so he is strictly a rental. I hope the Cubs get a better package but I am trying to be realistic. Arrieta is pitching tonight for Iowa. I am going to tune in and watch his start.
    I hope you have a good time in Kane County.

  • Question of the day.....

    Should Theo & Jed look into trading Samardzija this off season?

    A - Yes, Shark is over-rated
    B - No way, Cubs next "Ace"..sign him for the long term
    C - I don't care, I am waiting for the Bears season to begin.
    .

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    D-Yes, no one is untouchable and the Cubs should listen to any serious offer for any of their players, but they should only move him if they are blown away by the package coming back.

  • And this coming in from MLB.com....Indians are looking at several pitchers to trade before the dead line, one is Cubs Jeff Samardzija.

    okay...who does the Indians have in their system that we might want?

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    Trevor Bauer to begin with, and go along w 2-3 more of their top 5-10 prospects haha.

    I am still in the keep Samardzija camp though, so I don't want to get rid of him. I know you're not his biggest fan, and though he's not pitching well today, it's undeniable the guy has filthy stuff when he's on, and guys like that just don't grow on trees, and he's proven to be effective unlike any prospect.

    Now, if it's looking like he won't sign an extension with us next year, or the year after then by all means trade him.

  • In reply to Jamato:

    Lindor, Bauer, Paulino after that meh

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    In reply to Bryan Craven:

    I think that it would start with Cabrara, Micheal Sanders and Bauer because they have serious man crush on Lindor and have been talking about opening a spot for him eventually.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to CubsTalk:

    I rarely agree with CubsTalk but playing Devil's advocate here, what can we expect in return? I do not think Samardzjia is an ace right now but his peripherals indicate he is close....... He is lacking that one, soul-destroying out pitch that he throws with 100% consistency....... But he has the arsenal..... And the makeup..... It is up to the Cubs staff to determine if he will realize that potential.

    There are three pitchers that come to mind that I think were traded for too early. Now I don't know all the details and frankly I am too tired to look them up (tired = lazy), and I am going to discount Nolan Ryan with the Mets because it was before my time but please note that is an EPIC example........

    1. Curt Schilling was given up far too early by Houston.
    2. Pedro Martinez was given away by the Dodgers.
    3. Randy Johnson was given away by the Expos.

    Now Shark will probably never be the Hall of Fame pitchers that those guys are, but he might me. And usually, pitchers bloom a little later than batters. With 27 industry-known as "breakout age" we have to remember that Shark got a late start. Plus side - he has less mileage on his arm and last year he blew the "Verducci Theory" to smithereens.............

    He may not ever be an ace.......... But he could be....... If the return is what a team would pay for an ace, you trade him. But unless you get to top three system pitchers and a major league regular in return, I say you keep him........ If Arizona wants him, I'd want Bradley, Skaggs and Pollock or Eaton........ From Cleveland I'd want Bauer, Paulino and Pestano or Chisenhall........

    Do you like what I did with the dots? Did you see what I did there?

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    In reply to Jive Wired:

    Just another alias of CT. So what?

  • They will not trade Jeff, at this time, but he is not a top 2 starter

  • not saying trade him but sure was looking for more out of Smardzija today. really need a guy who can stop losing streaks or at least keep losing streaks from starting. this is the one game I was hoping to get from the Pirates.

  • In reply to kansascub:

    You were forgetting that apparently Liriano is kryptonite to the Cubs. Strike that, all lefties are kryptonite to the Cubs. Having Harrison trying to flag down liners in the OF doesn't help matters either.

  • We can go back & forth all we want but I think the best case scenario is a bidding war between BOS & TEX.

    They're both viable WS contenders with clear SP needs. I can't see any of the other teams stepping up, to the extent that those two clubs can & should.

  • I think I have todays post game headline for Felzz.....

    Shark Gets Bucked !

  • Nice going Castro......getting picked off at second.

    Don't worry...Theo will not trade you........but Dale should put your a** on the bench to shame you.

  • apparently Castro didn't want to be thrown out at home again.

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    I think some of you guys are missing the point. Garza makes this team better than without him. You only make a trade if it will exceed the return you have right now. It doesn't have to be this year but it has to be better than what you have. If Jed Epstein doesn't get the players they think make the team better, then they keep Garza and wait until they do. If the trade deadline comes and he is still on the team you ride out the rest of the year and then come this winter you make a qualifying offer and hope he accepts a team friendly deal. If not you thank him for his contributions, take the draft pick, and watch some other team over pay for him. This is the time for reasoning/rational thinking, not knee-jerk reactions.

  • In reply to Darin Spangler:

    Not trying to be a jerk, but your approach guarantees that the Cubs get less than " what they have". You do the best you can in a competitive trade mkt for his services. Otherwise, all you're going to get is the compensatory pick. Unless he gets hurt-which is a risk we are currently bearing - he will sign a huge deal this offseason. One of the main reasons-maybe the only for all we know-that he's being shopped is his unwillingness to sign a team-friendly deal. Jedstein has decided- for reasons that they know & they're the pros- that they don't want to pay full sticker for his services.

    Moral of the story: create the best mkt & get what you can. If they're gonna "pay up" for one of their starters, it's gonna be Shark, as well it should be.

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    Why can't they pay up for more than one of their starters? I'm still really, really underwhelmed by most of the names floating around for Garza. I'd much rather have him signed long term than give him up for a couple of projectable arms that probably will never make it (and if they do will probably not be the pitcher that Garza is).

  • fb_avatar

    My thoughts on Shark right now have not changed. He is a thrower still learning how to pitch with out his best stuff. His split was not working today and instead of working around it he kept trying to go back to it. When he is on Shark is amazing to watch but great pitchers know how to pitch when certain pitches are not working for them. I do still think he can learn how to do that.

  • unless the return is better than a late 1st rd pick in a decent 2014 draft I don't trade him. Good arms next year in draft.

  • I don't think you can lose with a nice package from Toronto, Boston, or Texas. Baltimore just doesn't have much to part with unless they get Gausman. Any possible names getting bandied about from Boston. Barnes? Webster? Owens?

  • fb_avatar

    Give me Taylor Guerierri and Richie Shaffer from Tampa for Garza and I'd be ecstatic. I'd also take Buckel and Alfaro from the Rangers though that would kill my AL Dynasty League fantasy team. IF ONLY THE A'S WOULD GIVE UP ADDISON RUSSELL!

  • In reply to Jive Wired:

    Guerierri alone and I make a deal, that kid is really really good, filthy stuff and very advanced command. Rays wont trade Him for a rental.

  • In reply to Jive Wired:

    Forget about the Rays. They don't make those kinds of deals. In fact, they've made 0 moves the last 3 trade deadlines they've been in playoff hunts.

  • fb_avatar

    That being said, the return for Garza will be less than that, though the Rangers scenario I mentioned could make sense for Texas.

  • I think Cubs are going to have to sign a big free agent in the off season not just to help the team but someone to take the focus off of Starlin Castro. I think having the weight of the franchise on his shoulders is really getting to him.

  • In reply to kansascub:

    I agree completely. The alternative is a change of scenery via a trade like the Lou Brock for the sore armed Ernie Broglio who had an elbow. Brock was a player with great, but limited minor league credentials, who was brought up early and felt the pressure of two other young players, Santo and Williams, both reaching all star production levels while he was still developing.

  • In reply to kansascub:

    I think it's more how they are changing his approach at the plate... it's been a serious distraction and then hammering him about defense... what they should have done is focused on D and let him be himself at the plat... once his D was at a level then you can look to change his approach at the plate... right now it's just painful to see him go through this transition in the middle of a season

  • Re: BOS
    I think you're talking either Barnes or Owens + something else decent. I think we'd love Webster but that probably isn't happening. Ranaudo is another guy who might factor in there. I'm a broken record but they're far and away the best fit, right now.

  • In reply to Carl9730:

    I was thinking the exact same thing, Carl. Webster's probably too much to ask, but I think the best the Cubs could hope for is one of Barnes, Owens or Ranaudo and another piece. Swihart would be great. Possibly two of aforementioned pitchers if the Cubs are able to package something the Red Sox need with Garza.

  • I wonder with more than one team mentioning interest in Shark, if TheoJed have put him on the table. It's obvious teams are not thinking he's untouchable and TheoJed may have evaluated the market and realized this wouldn't be a bad time to shop him.

  • Sharks planning on making T & J anti up some serious doughage to retain his services looks like to me, not a big surprise to anyone, but are T & J all in on that kind of deal with Jeff? Saying that they like his " moxie" or the " cut of his jib" so to speak doesn't mean they're locking him up at any cost, he'll surely get paid, just maybe not in Chicago? His value is pretty decent about now. I think I'd at least have my wheels turning.

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