It's Time To Walk Away from Carlos Marmol

It's Time To Walk Away from Carlos Marmol

It starts with a walk.  Then maybe another, and often another after that.

Sometimes it includes hitting a batter or two.  In four of his last five appearances, he has walked or hit the first batter he has faced.  Once there are runners in scoring position, what usually follows is a string of hits, or more walks, before the lead is gone and Cubs fans are booing him off the field.

Twitter explodes.  The hash tags trend throughout Chicago.  Fans gather on social media to vent their frustrations while sweating through every pitch he throws.

You know the story with Carlos Marmol.  You've seen it many times before.

And so have the Cubs.

That’s why, at this point, I’m not sure what the Cubs stand to gain by continuing to pitch the embattled reliever in pressure situations.  We’re now going on three seasons in which Marmol has not been consistently reliable.

After Saturday’s latest Marmol meltdown, in which he walked Zack Cozart on four pitches, issued a free pass to Joey Votto, and then plunked Brandon Phillips—setting the table for a decisive four run Reds rally to beat the Cubs—Dale Sveum was back at the microphone in Wrigley Field’s cramped interview room trying to explain another disaster from his combustible reliever.

“One way or the other, he’s got to get fixed,” he said.  “He’s gotta pitch.”

Why?

The 31-year-old right hander is in the final year of a three year, $20 million contract which pays him $9.8 million this season.  The working theory for why—despite Marmol’s continued issues with confidence and mechanics he was still getting chances to pitch in tight spots—was if he pitched decently well for awhile, the Cubs brass could move him in a trade by the end of July.

But, at this point, no smart baseball executive would part with anything significant to acquire him.

“I would say he has no value now,” one National League scout told me.  “Even if he pitched well for a stretch, it wouldn't change my mind.  His struggles have been very apparent.”

The Cubs should just cut ties with Marmol.  He’s costing them money whether he pitches or not, but he’s costing them games too often when he’s out there.

The longer he continues to pitch in pressure situations, the more he’ll falter in tough spots.  If he can only pitch in a mop-up role, what team would part with anything of value to acquire him?

Even if he were moved, according to one American League executive, the Cubs would have to pay the lion’s share of his contract before he believed teams would even sniff at an offer.

And what would they really acquire, other than a low-level minor league player with little hope of reaching the major leagues?

Marmol, a former all-star, was once one of the most dominant pitchers in the National League.  In 2007 and 2008, he was a magician as a middle reliever, earning tons of national attention as Lou Piniella’s security blanket in pressure situations.

He could be called upon with runners in scoring position and nobody out, with the bases loaded—any situation.  It didn't matter. Fans across the country marveled at his dominance, as he racked up strikeouts at prolific rates to get the Cubs out of dire circumstances.

In his first year as the full-time closer in 2010, he saved 38 of 43 games, held opposing batters to a minuscule .147 batting average against him, and struck out a whopping 16 batters per nine innings pitched.

For a time, he was great.

Those days are long gone now, and as the Cubs work to create a new culture—a winning culture—they can’t afford to lose as many games as they have by blowing late leads with a volatile reliever at the end of the road.

Carlos Marmol has had plenty of success as a Cubs reliever, and more recently, plenty of failure.  To his credit, he has always been available to the media and accountable for his mistakes when his performance costs his team.  He doesn't make excuses.

But the time has come for the Cubs to stop putting him in position to walk the lead off man.  They must simply walk away from him.

Filed under: Bullpen, Cubs, Pitching

Tags: Carlos Marmol, Cubs, Marmol

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  • fb_avatar

    Everyone needs to stop being so hard on Marmol. He's just doing his part to help the Cubs get the best draft position possible in 2014.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    He's doing that almost single-handedly.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    I'm over that, time to start moving forward.

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    In reply to Tom Loxas:

    John and Tom, I was just trying to look at the bright side. Because if I didn't I'd cry. Maybe we need to do a telethon to raise money and awareness.

    Remember when the was an issue with all the traveling violations that don't get called in the NBA and ESPN did a really funny commercial about it. They're supposed to be having a telethon, and they're all gathered around as a group sing, "Don't walk! Don't Walk! Don't Walk, what would Naismith say today?" Anyways, that's what we need here.

    Seriously though, they should just cut him. They've spent the money already, and no GM in his right mind is going to give up anything worth having for him.

  • Walk away from him because he's walked his way from us.

  • Unless there's some quality reliever down at AAA I don't know about, I can't really get on board here. I don't think he's a closer, nor do I think Kevin Gregg, Shawn Camp, James Russell, Cameron Loe, Michael Bowden, or Hector Rondon are either. Regardless, the Cubs still have to patch this thing together, and I don't think the likes of Yoanner Negrin and Casey Coleman are the answer, either.

    If Marmol were a headcase or clubhouse cancer, I'd agree. But by all accounts, he's a good teammate, he owns up to his mistakes, and has slight upside. No real point in cutting him unless someone intriguing comes up on waivers.

    Now, if he starts becoming a head case, or that ERA gets up into Erik Bedard territory, I'd say cut him. But right now, there just isn't a great replacement.

    At least until Fujikawa's healthy.

  • There's some truth there. I'd rather the Cubs win 60 than 80, in the hope that they'll win 100 sooner than later. Nothing's guaranteed that they'll get there, but they're improving their odds.

    I've been a Cub fan for 50 years, seen a lot of them come and go. My first Cub game, I saw Ellis Burton play center field. You think their outfield stinks now, look up his numbers.

    If the goal is to put yourself in a position to win championships, a little short-term pain (3-4 years) is worth it if it helps you attain your goal.

    Marmol's not going to be here forever. In fact, I'd be surprised if more than 5-6 current players will still be here when they are ready to contend. Patience will help you get through this year. And next year.

  • The problem is that unlike teams of 3 or 4 years ago, the Reds didn't have enough sense not to go for Marmol's wild stuff.

    Maybe if Marmol faced Soriano, it would help Marmol, at least so often as Alfonso swung at low and outside.

    As far as relief pitchers, I here that there is another former Cub one out there real cheap, so long as you hide the Gatorade machine.

  • Well, he was great in middle relief yesterday. It's not like the Cubs have this over whelming abundance of any kind of relief pitching.

  • And replace him with who?

    This is what I keep asking to anyone who says,"JUSTGETRIDOFHIM!" Sounds good, who should we replace him with? "ANYONE!!!"

    Well, for those that have been paying attention this year, our entire pen has been bad with the exception of Gregg and Russell. Rondon, Loe and Marmol are all in the same vicinity when it comes to ERA. Camp has been brutal. Personally, I'd like to see Michael Bowden get a shot at some high leverage situations, but he hasn't been great either.

    So, again, to those that want him gone, what's the plan? Who are the clear cut better options?

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    And keep in mind that proper player development precludes bringing up someone before he is ready just to fill a short term need.

    How much do you want to put near future contention at risk for a few more wins this year?

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    You're right, they've all been bad. But his meltdowns are a circus at this point, and an unneeded distraction. Time to cut ties and move on. He's only on the roster for his contract. The value is gone.

  • In reply to Jordan Bernfield:

    So because he gets booed, he should be let go?

    And Shawn Camp is exhibit A that Marmol is not on the roster because of his contract. Camp is cheaper, has performed worse and has a worse track record. He's still on the team.

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    Who is a better option?

    Anyone that doesn't throw a slider in a 2-0 count in a relief situation to a marginal hitter that has no one on base. How about a guy that knows if you are up by 2 or 3 runs, maybe you should be challenging hitters, rather than throwing them off speed stuff. (Of which, is harder to control)

    If you can't control your fastball, you probably don't have much business being in the majors.

  • In reply to givejonadollar:

    So you think Marmol is shaking off the catcher (who calls the pitches) and going to these pitches against the will of the team? Surely if the team thought this was a problem, they'd talk to Marmol and tell him he can't do this anymore.

    Have you witnessed him shaking off the catcher to go to these pitches? Have you heard anything about the team trying to change the way he shakes off pitches?

    I haven't seen or heard anything about either of these situations.

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    I honestly think you make a great point. The pitchers are not to shake off the catcher if I understand correctly.

    With that being the case, why do I keep seeing sliders in 2-0 counts? Is it on Dale, the catcher, or both?

  • In reply to givejonadollar:

    And, to be clear before I'm jumped on, I'm talking about marginal hitters and when we have a lead of 2 runs or more. I've seen it a lot.

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    In reply to TulaneCubs:

    The catcher isn't always the guy giving the signal. Many times the pitcher himself says what he is throwing. There are some subtle signs and some not so subtle. Did you ever see a pitcher rub his glove one or more times down his leg after getting the sign from the catcher? We used to do things like that.

    The catcher would put down a #1. The pitcher rubs his glove once down his leg. This means "add one." He is now going to throw a #2.

    2 rubs means "add 2." This means he is going to throw a #3.

    We did sort of thing and had signs to subtract #'s as well. The bottom line is that it's the pitcher that ultimately throws the pitch and makes his mind up what he's gonna throw. Everything else may just be "strong" suggestions.......

  • The problem is appearances. Every minute longer Marmol and Loe remain on the staff it appears as if the brass' isn't even trying. Blake Parker and Casey Coleman may not be great shakes, but at least run them through and give them a shot. I don't really care if the team wins 60 games either, but the FO has to at least pretend to care and try to put the best team on the field. They are clearly not doing that right now.

  • In reply to TheMightyGin:

    I'm sure Coleman could do better job, they are just trying to get something out of this guy.

  • In reply to Tom Loxas:

    What about Coleman's #s in MLB make you sure he can do a better job than Marmol?

  • You can always find guys out there for your pen. Happens all the time.

  • This foolish talk that a horrible season will lead to some gold mine in the draft is patently idiotic. I'd guess that about 2% of draftees ever see a major league park on business. I've said here that Marmol is of no value, and the team should release him whatever the cost, and get on with the serious business of finding a door slammer. My only suggestion so far has been the tight end from Notre Dame. He seems to me to have the talent and temperament to be a big time closer. I can't realistically see anyone else on the roster of whom I can say that. Maybe on the farm there is someone.

  • In reply to BLOOMIE1937:

    Well if only 2% of draftees work out, wouldn't it be nice if we were able to raise that rate by getting a higher draft position, rather than almost break .500 and not make the playoffs?

  • You're suggesting moving our #1 starter to closer?

    Come on, man.

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    I don't think it's time yet to cut Marmol. The money is spent, and he can't be traded, so the only real question is whether someone at AAA or off the street would be better this year.

    Marmol started terribly last year, and did turn it around.........he has a higher ceiling, IMO, than Dolis or Blake Parker or anyone else we might put in that slot.

    But if he doesn't show signs soon, you have to cut bait, just for team morale purposes more than anything else

    BTW, Blake Parker is pitching really well at Iowa.....good timing on his part. He may force the issue

  • In reply to Zonk:

    Agreed here. I think this makes sense. I just don't know how much the Cubs have to gain by dumping Marmol.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    The only thing they have to gain is avoid a full blown riot at Wrigley the next time he blows up, or the time after that or that time after that.

    Cubs have been patient like nobody's business and we are forced to be some more with the rebuild and with Rickett's now blaming Sam Zell for purportedly tying his hands to a reduced payroll. But by golly, I just see some real ugliness breaking out at Wrigley one day soon because of another Marmol arson attack.

    There's only so much horseshit the fans can take, and they've taken plenty.

  • In reply to Nondorf:

    I've said many times that a front office has to do what they feel is in the best interests of the team and not do what the fans want them to do. What they owe to the fans is to build a winning organization in the best way they know how. If they can do that, the fans will be there.

  • I agree with Jim and Tulane here in that there really aren't any great alternatives. Coleman and Parker are just replacement level guys who won't add much to the team's chances of winning. Dolis seems to be improving but still inconsistent with his command. The one guy who might really help the pen -- Arodys Vizcaino, is still a ways off.

    I do think Marmol should be removed from the closer role indefinitely -- but again, who do the Cubs put in his place? They've tried just about everyone and almost every other RP has a blown save already.

  • I'm as frustrated with Marmol as everyone else is. But we do not have any better options so I can't blame the FO for keeping him on the roster (for now). Can't blame Dale for pitching him if he's suited up either.

    Funny thing is he's tied for the team lead in wins..... But yeah, I'm done and am ready to see him move on as soon as we have a either A). a less volatile option or B). somebody with a higher upside.

  • Some strange comments on here today. Keep Marmol because the Cubs don't have anybody who can do better? You think if Marmol was making a million bucks a year, he would not have been already demoted?
    This is the one big mistake Theo and Jed have made. They have allowed their obsession with creating value, destroy the start of a young developing teams season. After having a trade fall through, it was ridiculous to have him on the roster in spring training. Said so at the time. He was and is the link to failure of the past three years. The poster boy. Way past time to bite the bullet.
    And the thought that winning sixty games will be better than if the Cubs can only win 80 is absurd. What we are seeing so far this season is extremely destructive to the development of a young and rebuilding team. Losing only adds to making things worse.

  • I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think we can assume any permanence to anything here. Is Marmol going to be awful all year? It seemed that was the case last year but it turned around and he was probably the Cubs most reliable reliever. I think maybe money is part of it, but a track record of righting the ship and having success as an MLB reliever is probably the bigger thing in play

    Likewise, any damage to Cubs young players psyche is reversible. All it takes is for the team to start winning again -- but is that going to happen by replacing Marmol with Dolis or Parker? I have a hard time imagining that will do much to turn the Cubs season around -- even on a small scale.

  • Camp is only making 1.35 million. He's still around.

  • In reply to Richard Beckman:

    Good call

  • Good points Cubb. The culture of losing isn't a good environment for developing young core players. I think the Cubs had hoped that they'd be further along by now in building the team. Castro and Rizzo have a lot of pressure on them as the only real full time offensive players, and it seems like they're pressing. If less was required of Castro then maybe he would be more patient at the plate by now.

  • fb_avatar

    There's an obvious choice to replace him with, and that's Kevin Gregg. Gregg is pitching quite well (I can't even believe I just wrote that) and could actually bring back a decent return at the deadline if he establishes himself as a lockdown closer.

    I do think it's time to cut ties with Marmol. This goes far beyond "who do we replace him with?" The issue is, so long as he's on the team, he will continue to blow games. And, at some point, the team has to specifically show that they won't allow good performances by some players to be wasted by others. Consistently not doing your job means we will find someone who can.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    They can try Gregg but history says sooner or later, he'll become Kevin Gregg again.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    I think the obvious choice is Kyuji, but hopefully we see the Japan version.

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    In reply to givejonadollar:

    I like Kyuji as the 8th inning guy until he can consistently throw strikes. When that happens, the 9th is all him.

  • It looks like the Cubs don't have any good choices. If Marmol can get on a run like he did in the second half of last season, then he's valuable to the team. But maybe he should go to the minors to get in a groove.
    One thing I'm disappointed in is the overuse of Camp and Russell last year. Why do teams overwork bullpen guys like that, knowing that they might be ruining their most dependable bullpen arms for the following season? So far Russell has been amazing, but Camp has not looked like the same pitcher. Why did the Cubs run Camp out there for 78 innings last year? It's not like the Cubs were going for the division and had to take chances with their pitchers.

  • The real question is if Marmol wasn't making so much would he still be here?

  • In reply to Tom Loxas:

    S. Camp is pitching worst and making less and he is still here ..... so to answer your question ...yes.

  • In reply to SouthsideB:

    Camp has had a bad three weeks. Marmol has been off and on lousy going on three years now.
    And if Camp doesn't get straightened out over the next month, he will be gone.
    A lot of people are always touting how smart the Cardinals are. Well look at what they did so far this season. Mitchell Boggs was pitching the 8th inning in World Series games two years ago, and last year was unhittable as the set up man. He had a bad start to the season, check out where he is pitching today. And for a kid who never threw a pitch in the big leagues.
    You have to hold players accountable. Produce or someone else is going to get a shot.

  • Marmol's #s were actually better than Camp's last year and better than Camp's the year before.

  • Cards are in a different situation. They can't afford to lose games because as legit contenders every game for them is crucial. They apparently have options on Boggs and can send him down -- and it's likely to get straightened out more than a permanent move. And the Cards have arms down in AAA that can make a difference. These guys are starters who can help in the short term as relievers.

    I'm pretty sure if the Cubs were in that situation they'd handle things differently. The situation needs context.

  • In reply to SouthsideB:

    Don't be so sure that Marmol doesn't pose bigger distraction.

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    In reply to Tom Loxas:

    It's actually stuff like Camp and Marmol still being on the team that makes me wonder if Theo -- now that the season clearly isn't going the way we all hoped -- is not particularly disappointed in the losses.

  • In reply to Tom Loxas:

    Indirectly, in my opinion. It's his track record that got him that contract and I think it's that track record, in part, that gives the Cubs some hope that he can turn it around.

    I also think if he were older, say 35, the Cubs could safely say he's past his prime years and they could move on.

    But he's young and has a history of turning things around. He's not a clubhouse problem. I think there are a few things keeping him here -- at least for a while longer. He is going to get a bit more time than guys without those characteristics.

  • If the Cubs can fit him in the budget somehow, I'm thinking Brian Wilson's not a bad option here. One year deal with a second year mutual option. If he proves himself, move him in the off-season or at next year's deadline. If he's not recovered, it was a no-risk situation.

  • The days of Marmol coming in and striking out the side back when we contended for the Central in 07-08 seem so far away...
    Any news on Vizcaino or Scott Baker? Feel like Vizcaino could be extremely effective at the back end of the bullpen, assuming his stuff remains after Tommy John.

  • And let me say for the record, that Carlos Marmol drives me crazy and I'm as fed up as everyone here, including Jordan.

    I'm just trying to guess what the front office might be thinking in keeping him to this point. These guys aren't going to react to small sample sizes this quickly. I think they're concerned, but I also think that they're willing to give Marmol more time to turn it around based on the things I said in my reply to Tom.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Just curious what you think of Marmol's slider this year. In the past that slider was magnificent, and only his control breakdowns seemed to get him in trouble. This year it seems like his slider doesn't break like it used to, or maybe it doesn't have the same velocity. I'm not sure why, but it doesn't look dominant like it did in the past.

  • In reply to baseballet:

    He gets his fingers on the side of the ball instead of the top a lot of the time. Do no doubt to his poor mechanics, and lack of balance. Why you see it back up often also.

  • In reply to baseballet:

    Without looking at stuff like pitch f/x, I agree with you. Just based on observation, it doesn't appear to have the same bite that it's had in the past.

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    Be careful of criticizing Cubs players, Jordan, they might pull a Wirtz and get you fired.

  • In reply to Just Win:

    Wirtz was pretty thin-skinned. Who did he have fired and why?

    As for Jordan, it's fair criticism and they'll be fine with that. Jordan does a great job pointing out the concerns while respecting the player and the organization.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    I'm not talking about Bill Wirtz, who was legendary, but Rocky Wirtz who had a CSN reporter fired last week, Susannah Collins, by sending an email demanding her removal from Hawks games and CC'ing Ricketts and Reinsdorf to make sure she couldn't be on CSN at all. (and Rocky Wirtz had at least one other CSN reporter fired before that, Josh Mora, who wrote a blog post critical of the team for firing their GM, Dale Tallon).

  • Hey John, Pierce Johnson was scheduled to start today, but Lendy Castillo is pitching instead, have you heard anything about this?

    Last thing we need is for him to get injured too... Hopefully he was just promoted or just a minor setback.

  • In reply to Caps:

    Johnson is okay. He's pitching Wednesday.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    OK, thank you, I just saw it on the Cougars website that he was schedule to pitch today, but sometimes they are slow to update.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to John Arguello:

    John, is that because they're trying to keep Johnson on a strict schedule.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Most likely, yes.

  • So this is a pretty far-fetched idea, but with the return of Garza what if Jackson were switched from starter to closer and remove Marmol all together? Jackson seems to generally be fine for a few innings before falling apart. His hefty contract could be viewed as a hefty closer contract. Just some delusional thinking to take away my attention from the very depressing games the past few weeks.

  • The vitriol being targeted at Marmol is mostly, IMHO, due to Svuem and Theo running him out there in save situations despite his reliably destructive performances. I agree Marmol gets too much heat (and it should be spread out between him and Theo/Svuem), but that is the nature of professional sports and especially for players who sign big contracts. He seems like a good teammate and decent person, but fans get tired of losing.
    Second, I think we have to consider that the other 24 players are not robots and are not immune to having good play and tough games thrown away by the management's decision to run out the same failing closer who will predictably blow the game. It affects them, how they play, and their confidence in themselves and the team. That is detrimental to rebuilding a team in a "winning" environment.
    Third, this idea that blowing games is "no big deal" because we will get a better draft pick is laughable. It minimizes the importance of the development of players on the field currently and ignores that teams often require incremental improvements to get better. No repercussions for sloppy play and the lack of pressure to win and perform WILL DEFINITELY AFFECT Castro, Castillo, Rizzo, Samardja, Wood etc.
    There is a big difference between not spending 200mil on Prince Fielder and Josh Hamilton because it is futile to waste that money to win 5 more games and saying its "OK" to blow 7-10 games a year by putting guys in a position where they will predictably fail (exempting situations with letting young guys play in pressure situations as that is focusing on getting better in the future. This is not the case with Marmol)

    Just my thoughts. Afterall, opinions are like butts. Everyone has one and they all stink! :)

    Still the best Cubs coverage and analysis on the web bar-none! Great work John, Tom, Felzz and Jordan!

  • In reply to 104YearsofGlory:

    "No repercussions for sloppy play and the lack of pressure to win and perform WILL DEFINITELY AFFECT Castro, Castillo, Rizzo, Samardja, Wood etc."

    Any evidence to support this? Playing for rotten teams didn't seem to bother Tampa's young players when they finally became a contender.
    ___________________________________________________
    "Still the best Cubs coverage and analysis on the web bar-none! Great work John, Tom, Felzz and Jordan!"

    Agree 100%.

  • In reply to 104YearsofGlory:

    "No repercussions for sloppy play and the lack of pressure to win and perform WILL DEFINITELY AFFECT Castro, Castillo, Rizzo, Samardja, Wood etc."

    Or perhaps it will lessen the pressure on players who see that management doesn't fire people over a slump.

  • In reply to Richard Beckman:

    Fire denotes loss of job AND income. Marmol keeps 9.8 million and only loses his position as pitcher for the chicago cubs. I would hardly use the word "fired". And if you think players who are not able to perform their duties should not be released then we should still have Zambrano pitching, D-Lee at first and koyie Hill behind the plate. Releasing players is not a death sentence, it is a normal part of the baseball process that allows teams to try to upgrade and get better.

    Also, Soriano was in a slump (in april), Marmol is not in a slump. He is unable to perform the role for which he was signed. He cannot get people out or throw strikes consistently.

  • In reply to 104YearsofGlory:

    I never said that players who are unable to perform their duties should not be released. I would say that a player who is unable to perform and for whom there is a replacement available should be let go. But the timing of a promotion from the minors to the Cubs should be determined by the readiness of the player to be promoted, not by the need of the Cubs (at least for the time being.)

    Marmol is currently unable to perform the role for which he is signed, but he can still play a role. He seems perfectly able to pitch effectively in middle relief.

  • In reply to 104YearsofGlory:

    Thank you so much!

  • What the Cubs need is some Marmol aid.

  • I don't care what the Cubs do because this is going to be a long year. Keep, trade or release Marmol this team is not going to be competitive.

  • I say just use him only in the 6th or 7th inning as a mop up guy or if we don't have the lead.

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    The Cubs are already 9 games out. If they tank against the Cards it could and likely will be double digit. At this point, you have to start on your secondary goal of developing talent at the major league level-more assets.

    I see a slew of roster moves on the horizon. Here is my opinion on a few:

    Bullpen: Release Marmol and Camp. Loe is already moved as of today. Replace with Fuji, Coleman, Dollis or Parker and one of either Feldman or Villanueva when Garza returns. I vote Villanueva.

    Vets: Trade DeJesus, Ransom and Hairston. Soriano too-but that deal will likely take more time. Vitters needs to replace Hairston and/or Ransom, while Sweeney/Borbon will replace DeJesus. At some point, you have to get BJax back up as well.

    Bring up Watkins to platoon with Barney. Right now Barney is a mess at the plate.

    I think these moves will take the month of May to complete but by June we should have replaced the vets with youth in an effort to see what we have.

  • In reply to Dale Miller:

    The sooner the better.

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    I would rather take my chances with Coleman or Parker. I know Marmol historically has improved as the year goes on but eventually that will not be the case and he's already done plenty of damage this year. I say cut their losses and give those other guys a shot until some of our younger guys are ready. That means cutting Camp as well.

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    In reply to Zachary Myers:

    Yea, Marmol is a mess in the head. All the boos don't help. I hope he latches on to another team and regains his form. As for Camp, he was kind of lighting in a bottle. We got lucky with him last year but an 87mph fastball isn't gonna cut it.

  • Garza's velocity seems to be OK, he is hitting 92 mph, which is around his normal velocity.

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    And when Garza comes back?????? Somebody is gone. It seems to me we are in a position where the closer's role has been given to Gregg. So that makes Marmol nothing more than a middle reliever that is obviously past the point where he can be relied on.

    Garza will move into a starter's role and Feldman will probably go to a relief role.

    Then there's another pitcher we paid big money for as well. Kyuji Fujikawa will be coming back from injury. Now we have another pitcher poised to take a spot on the roster and a 2nd pitcher will have to be moved.

    Which 2 pitchers do you suggest we move if not Marmol when these 2 guys are ready to return? Marmol seems like the perfect answer to me. He is NOT in the long term plans and the fans are ready to riot at the very sign of him just warming up. Kill 2 birds with one stone!

  • In reply to bocabobby:

    By the way, Garza at 94 mph today with 85 mph "wipeout" slider, good change and good command in first inning.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    That sounds promising and he's working quickly, hitting his spots and keeping the ball down.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I hate this ":work" stuff -- it seriously cramps my ability to watch baseball.

    Any word on if Royals/Jays scouts are on hand?

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    You know John, you keep saying that this FO needs to do what's best for the team in the long run and dismiss the fans screams for Marmol's head on a platter. For the most part I agree with this statement. But this Marmol situation seems to be a cancer for both the team and the fans that still support the team.

    On the team's part, where is the accountability that was spoke about when Dale was hired? Does this mean just sitting in front of reporters after each Marmol blow up and saying that either Marmol or Dale accepts responsibility for the loss?

    These guys get paid to do a job. A whole lotta money. If Carlos was throwing strikes and go beat, I think it would be a little easier to swallow. This guy has no idea where the ball is going. And like I said earlier, Carlos is NOT in the long term plans.

    A handshake and a paycheck for the rest of the year should be all we have to do here. If for nothing else the team will see that we just don't accept this type of performance to be part of the new "Cubs Way!"

    It's just time......

  • In reply to bocabobby:

    I say it because it's the way every front office works -- and should work. They need to run their baseball operations based on their own information, data, and experience.

    I also don't think the players feel the same way that fans do. They saw Marmol succeed as recently as September of last season and they know what he did in the last half and in his career. They have a different perspective -- I don't think they'd want to lose their own jobs if they had a bad month. My guess is they're behind him more than most fans are.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the players are uneasy with Marmol as well. But in front of the camera they will spew how much they support him. Who wants to go on record as to not support a teammate?

    I guess we could debate the Marmol situation forever. But I think we can agree that this team still has more holes than just the closer situation.......

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    The Draft is only 1 month away!!! WooooooooHooooooo

    Had to find something to get excited about....

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    My problem is what is Marmol doing to the moral of the team? We already know what he is doing to us everytime we see him come in. These young players must be losing faith everytime they see him warming up. He's gotta go NOW!

  • In reply to freeagent24:

    Also, the morale of the fans. We work hard to have a few entertainment $$.

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    Ian Stewart is awol. My guess is they told him that now Vitters is back he'll get the majority of work at third. 44 abs-not sure if that's enough to make a final decision but I'm guessing he wasn't impressing the scouts and coaches much.

  • In reply to Dale Miller:

    LOL See my post below, he hasn't played since he was optioned, so I'm wondering if he was DFA'd to make room for Sweeney.

  • Ian Stewart hasn't been playing since he was optioned... The Cubs are calling up Ryan Sweeney, but they will need to make room for him in the 40 man roster... I'm thinking maybe he was DFA'd?

  • Give Marmol the Theo special...make him a starter ;-)

  • In reply to svelocity:

    He started 13 games in 2006 going 5-7 with a 6.08 ERA and a 1.688 WHIP.

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