Marlins-Jays trade may open up possibilities for Cubs

Marlins-Jays trade may open up possibilities for Cubs
Could Nolasco return to the organization that drafted him?

In case you missed it, the Blue  Jays and Marlins pulled off a stunner late Tuesday night.  The deal is reportedly as follows...

To Jays:

  • Josh Johnson, RHP
  • Mark Buehrle, LHP
  • Jose Reyes, SS
  • Emilio Bonafacio, 2B
  • John Buck, C

To Marlins:

  • Yunel Escobar, SS
  • Henderson Alvarez, RHP
  • Adeiny Hechevarria, SS
  • Jake Marsinick, CF
  • Justin Nicolino, LHP
  • Jeff Mathis, C
  • Anthony DiSciafani, RHP

Great trade for the Jays. Marlins? Eh.  Seems to me they could have gotten more.  I don't see any real impact players here with the possible exception of Marsinick.  This deal appeared to be more about saving money than restocking young talent.

Of course, this is a Cubs website, so we'll talk about it's impact on the Cubs.  On the negative side, one of Matt Garza's main suitors, the Blue Jays, are now likely off the table as a possible trade partner.

But the deal may also open up some trade possibilities for the Cub from both teams, starting with the obvious - Giancarlo Stanton. There are also other players who could become available.  They are far less glamorous than Stanton but they may still be of some use to the Cubs.  Here's a few of them...

From the Marlins
If the Marlins are really having a fire sale, maybe they'll make these two guys available...

  •   Giancarlo Stanton, OF:  Yes, we'd all love to have him.  He's the right age.  He's a power hitter.  He puts up solid walk and OBP numbers.  He plays good defense.  What's not to like?  It's a no-brainer -- even in a package involving Javier Baez or Jorge Soler.  Will that happen?  Probably not.  The Marlins can afford to keep Stanton for now and the cost to acquire him is likely to far exceed either player, perhaps even costing young MLB'ers like Starlin Castro, Jeff Samardzija, or Anthony Rizzo.  Can the Cubs afford to give up several top prospects and/or young players for one guy, albeit a very good one at this stage of their rebuilding?  I'm inclined to say no, but I would certainly call and find out the cost.  It can't hurt.  The guess here, however, is that the cost will be prohibitive to a rebuilding team and will clean out a nice chunk of what the Cubs worked hard to build the last two years.  But we can still dream, right?
  • Ricky Nolasco, RHP:  Nolasco is a solid 3rd or 4th starter for the Marlins.  He's averaged 3.25 WAR over the past four years, including a solid 2.7 last season.  He's still only 29.  He doesn't walk hitters (2.1 per 9 IP in his career) and he has solid stuff across the board.  The reason the Marlins would consider trading him is money.  He makes $11.5M next year, probably more than a team with money issues and ready to challenge the Houston Astros as the worst team in baseball should be willing to pay for a mid-rotation workhorse.
  • (UPDATE):  Since so many have asked about Logan Morrison, I'll address him as well.  He is definitely on the market and he has three things that appeal to the Cubs: a LH bat, some power, and solid plate discipline.  That said, I don't think he's a fit unless the Cubs manage to unload Alfonso Soriano.  He cannot play CF.  Heck, he can barely play LF and he just had knee surgery two months ago.  He's a defensive liability anywhere except 1B, but that spot is taken, of course.  If the Cubs trade Soriano, I'll change my mind and would be willing to live with some subpar defense in LF as long as Marlins are selling low. But until then, he's not a fit.

From the Jays
Not much star power here, but there are some useful parts and intriguing arms that can play a role and possibly turn into something worthwhile.  All of these players are out of options and the Jays will not have room for all of them...

  • Brett Cecil, LHP:  Cecil has never quite lived up to his promise and throws a little less hard than he did in his rookie season, but he's a lefty with an 88-92 mph fastball and solid secondaries, particularly his curve.  Cecil could benefit from a fresh pair of coaching eyes and a change of scenery.  At 26 years old, he has yet to enter his peak years.  May be worth a flyer.
  • Jeremy Jeffress, RHP: Recently acquired from the Royals, the Jays may not be able to hang on to him.  Jeffress throws very hard, able to reach the upper 90s and averaging around 95 and combines it with a big breaking curve.  He has lightning in his arm, but he just doesn't know where it's going most of the time.  A project, but one with a lot of upside if he learns command.  He''s had makeup concerns in the past.
  • Sergio Santos, RHP: Santos came out of nowhere to save the White Sox bullpen two years ago.  He was traded to the Blue Jays the next year and promptly blew out his arm.  He pitched just 5 innings in the majors last year.  When healthy he combines a mid to upper 90s fastball with a hard slider that was often his out pitch.  If Santos is healthy, he's a potential closer if the Cubs decide to trade Marmol.   Control and command can be an issue but perhaps he can build enough value to be a trade chip later.
  • Esmil Rogers, RHP: Similar in stuff and command to Santos.  Rogers is another power pitcher with a 94-97 mph fastball and a nasty slider.  He put up a 4.59 ERA last year but his FIP was more than a full point lower.  Like Santos, his control can be spotty, however, and that may dissuade the Cubs, who have enough of their own hard throwing fastball/slider types with poor command.
  • Luis Perez, LHP: Perez has good stuff for a lefty, able to reach the mid 90s and miss bats (8.37 Ks/9 IP).  Finished with a solid 3.43 ERA last season.  His control is a little better than the two RH relievers ahead of him on this list, but nobody is going to be calling him "the left-handed Greg Maddux" anytime soon.
  • Cory Wade, RHP: At 29, Wade could be a younger version of Shawn Camp.  He's not going to overwhelm you with his stuff.  He relies on location and changing speeds, but he does it quite well, walking just 2.08 batters per 9 IP in his career, including just 1.85 last season.  He also had his best year as far as strikeouts, averaging almost one per inning.  Wade had a ghastly 6.46 ERA after putting just a 2.08 ERA before.  But that 2012 ERA was partially inflated by a very low strand rate (59%), a high BABIP (.328), and a little less luck with flyballs leaving the yard.  His xFIP was a very respectable 3.65.  Could be cheap and he throws strikes.

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  • [John Farrell to AA: Hey, can I come back?]
    Nice assessment, John. You're right, we must at least inquire about these possible additions.
    It will be an interesting study to see if the Jays' timing is right on all this. Appears that they think the rest of the AL East is primed to be surpassed and are making the big move for '13. May be a harbinger of where we are with the AL Central in a few years.

  • In reply to StillMissKennyHubbs:

    Toronto is getting rebuild-weary and I think the timing is right. They may have made a run last year had they not had that rash of injuries.

    I think the Cubs could indeed find themselves in a situation to add that kind of talent and salary in a couple of years.

  • I have a feeling the marlins are not going to trade stanton. If they do I just feel the cubs are going to call but just to call and see the asking price is. John like you said it may cost solar , baez , and one of your core players from the mlb roster.If they do that then last year was a waste of time and effort into building, it may sound funny because stanton is a beast but the cubs would be going backwards.The cubs would be in the same position the marlins are in now. I say they should stay the course and not get sidetracked.

  • In reply to seankl:

    I don't think he's going anywhere either.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    If he stays as upset as he seems tonight, he might force their hand.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    He can certainly try but if he does, he puts the Marlins in a bad position to be able to acquire a fair return. And if I'm the Marlins, there is no way I sell anything but ridiculously high on Stanton.

    But then again, it is the Marlins, so who knows.

    Stanton can be angry but he has very little leverage.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I'd offer a choice of Baez or Castro plus Soler, Vogelbomb (since he's blocked) and a big pile of $$$ for Stanton. The Marlins like $$$.
    Castro has a cheap long term deal. Stanton will be anything but cheap.

  • In reply to eaton53:

    The $$$ possibly, but Soler AND Baez or Castro? Not worth the talent we'd lose. We would be going backwards.
    Offer them Vogelbach and cash and see what happens.

  • In reply to eaton53:

    OH Hellz no!1 No freakin way Stanton is worth Beaz , Soler , and VBomb. I wouldnt trade Castro straight up for Him, SS 23 yrs old good offensively signed long term franchise player. Lot easier to get a corner OF with thump than a Castro .

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    Stanton is worth WAY more than these prospects. And that's all they are... prospects. And blocked prospects at that.

    The guy is 22 years old and hit .290 with 37 HR's and had a .969 OPS in the MAJOR LEAGUES last year.

    Actually, I'd be shocked if Florida would do anything but laugh at an offer of bunch of low level minor leaguers.

  • In reply to eaton53:

    "Actually, I'd be shocked if Florida would do anything but laugh at an offer of bunch of low level minor leaguers."
    But you were the one who posited the offer.

    Let's see 1) if Stanton is available, and 2) if the FO thinks they can do a deal for him.
    With our new FO personnel, I trust the Cubs FO to look into any and all possibilities this offseason.

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    In reply to Bryan Craven:

    LOL. 3 guys who haven't even played a Major league game for a 23 yr old cost controlled superstar making less then 500k a year?

    Your a funny guy,

    If the Marlins called the Jedstein and said give us Baez, Soler, and Vogelbomb and he said no. Jedstein would be fired the next day.

  • In reply to Jim Odirakallumkal:

    That's why I threw in the Big Pile O Cash. Marlins heart cash.
    These prospects, although well ranked are still prospects.
    Half or more will never make it.
    I'll, take the young guy who's actually performed at a high level in MLB, thanks.

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    I have to think if Stanton is on the market, he's a Ranger. They have an opening in their outfield, and their ML system could give the Marlins 5 top guys -- based around Olt -- without significantly damaging its long-term viability. It is fun to day-dream about him on a team with Rizzo and Castro, though. Something like Baez-Soler-Vogelbomb-Vitters could be offered, but it still probably doesn't match what the Rangers could counter with.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    It'd be worth Profar to the Rangers. Even though the Marlins just picked up two SSs, neither have Profar's ability. They could throw in Olt and possible someone from their MLB pitching depth. They could absolutely blow the Cubs best offer away. And as a team that's ready to win for the next decade, Stanton would be a great investment for them.

    But yeah, it is fun thinking about Stanton in the Cubs lineup!

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    If the Marlins could get Profar , Olt and an arm they should make that deal yesterday for an unhappy Stanton .

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    Right on.
    I agree that Baez-Soler-Vogelbomb-Vitters doesn't get it done, though... other teams can offer much more talent than this.

    But it's all we got...

  • Totally disagree with you about who got the better of the trade. The Jays got 2 guys with bad, backloaded contracts (Reyes for about $19M per over 5 years and Buerhle for $17M per over 3) and 1 solid contract (Johnson, 1 year for $13 or so). And for that, they got 2 of the Jays top 5 prospects? That's a steal for the Marlins, removing all of the other ramifications to them hoodwinking their fans.

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    I don't think the Marlins side of the trade is as bad as some people are making it out to be, but if there's a winner and loser in this deal, I'd have to go with the Blue Jays. They didn't give up elite young prospect/talent (Marisnick and Hechevarria are close perhaps, but not elite), didn't give up their high ceiling arms (Nicolino/DeSclafani are nice arms, not elite). They upgrade their pitching staff, upgrade the top of their lineup.

    Here's the thing - most teams in the majors have money, because of the TV deals, and the Blue Jays have claimed to have money to spend in recent years. With how the international signing and draft rules have changed, areas they spent big on before, they might have more money to spend. The AL East has an opening right now - Yankees are aging, Red Sox are rebuilding, Orioles seem primed to perhaps slide back a step or two (although I'm not expecting a major slide back), and the Rays are in neutral, if not going backwards a bit. At some point, they have to make a push to get the fan base actively interested again (not hard to get prime seats on game day for key series).

    If they can stomach the money on Buehrle/Reyes, I think the costs outweigh the benefits for them by a fair amount, but that's me.

    As a side point, if they aren't in contention, if Josh Johnson is pitching well, they can probably flip him again (and I wouldn't necessarily rule out the idea that they might be able to flip Buehrle at the deadline if they are out of it).

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    I don't disagree with them trading the contracts but I do think they should have gotten more for the talent they gave up. They may be two top 5 guys but I think the fact that they didn't get perhaps the three guys with true impact potential in D'Arnaud, Sanchez, and Syndegaard was big for me.

    Nicolino is not a front line guy for me, more a change speeds type. Nice, but I don't think he's an impact guy. Marsinick is a nice prospect but Jays trading from depth, prefer to keep Gose as he'll probably help next year. And lots of questions about his bat right now.

    Jays instantly fill 3 major holes, and pick up two more useful up the middle position players. Three of those players are in their prime years. They've saved money and picked up value for years to have this chance. It's time for them to go for it. I don't see money as a a big issue for them given where they're at right now.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    It's hard to digest the whole deal, but looking at what the Jays got....they received Josh Johnson, who clearly is better than his contract. Mark Buerhle, I would argue, is worth negative value relative to his contract. He's a decent pitcher, but I don't think he would get the money in today's FA market that he is still under contract for.

    Reyes is probably a wash; his contract is about right. He will help Toronto next year. But he'll be 34 in the last year of that contract, which is old for a guy who relies on footspeed and is injury-prone. This contract will be a problem for the Jays at some point.

    Certainly it helps the Jays next year, and maybe their thought process is that they have a window; the Red Sox/Yankees competition is weaker than ever, especially with the Yankees swearing-off spending. So, they see they have a chance, finally, to compete in AL East

  • john what about nolasco, like what you said about him. Do you think he could be had for less if they pick up the remaining money on his contract ?

  • In reply to seankl:

    Yes, i think the Cubs would prefer to do it that way.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I would expect the Marlins would accept a couple "suspects" just to unload Nolasco's salary. He isn't even close to being worth his salary. I love the Baker signing but would pass on Nolasco.

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    In reply to seankl:

    For sure he can be had on the cheap.

    The key is to get him from them soon.

    As soon as a lot of the good free agent pitchers are off the market. Some teams who lose out on signing one will come knocking on the Marlins door to pick up Ricky Nolasco.

    If Jedstein wants him, they need to go get him soon.

  • John,
    Wouldn't Kyle Drabek be a player they maybe willing to move also. I would love for the Cubs to get their hands on him. He has a great stuff and I am not concerned about his health.

  • In reply to WickitCub:

    Good one. I think the Jays would prefer to keep Drabek though because of that upside. He has options left, low cost...I don't see any reason for them to trade him unless they get equal value in return.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I dont think the Jays are done just yet. I also dont think they are complete secure with their rotation yet either. They are finally in win now mode so, I think be willing to move him. They still have pitchers in the minors with his ceiling maybe higher that this point. I wouldnt be surprised if they would still be in play for Garza and I also would surprised if they werent look in on Marmol for bullpen help.

  • fb_avatar

    John, my question is simple: do you have any idea of what the Marlins are doing? I can't begin to imagine trade scenarios involving their players since I don't really understand what's going on there. One could argue Nolasco is the next one to go since he's not a guy to build around and he'll be expensive next year. But then again, what kind of a team are they planning on putting on the field next year if they just keep shedding salaries (and, supposedly, not sign any top free agent)? Are they deliberately tanking the season before it even begins? I mean, the Astros clearly went for the #1 draft pick last season, but only after they realized they wouldn't contend (they even had a decent run in the first half). I think it's conceivable that the Marlins see Nolasco as one of the only pieces they have left to try and build a presentable team in 2013, and therefore they'll hang on to him. But who knows?

  • In reply to João Lucas:

    I think the fact that their attendance at the new stadium didn't meet expectations led them to firesale to bring costs down. Loria sort of gave it a one-year shot, and once the baseball side went to the crapper, they went to scratch and start over. It does give them some additional flexibility.

    It's horrible for the fan base, horrible for the prime young talent in the bigs (particularly since it's not like they are teeming with talent about to help), but it's their MO if things don't go well.

    I doubt they move any key young piece that's cheap, unless it's a knock your socks off deal, but in a couple years, when those guys get more expensive, perhaps. That actually fits our timeline as well ... so maybe we can revisit Stanton a year or two down the road.

  • In reply to João Lucas:

    Their team looks almost as bad as the Astros right now. The difference is Stanton. It seems to me they made a one year run, fooled the fans, and now just want to save money.

    But it wouldn't surprise me if they hung on to Nolasco to prevent alienating whatever fans they have left.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I have lived in south florida for over a decade.

    They don't care about alienating there fans.

    Loria is just like Ricketts and any other sucessful business man, they main concern is about making money.

    Only difference is Loria got a ring and he used his snake oil salesmanship to actually swindle the taxpayers to pay for his playpen w an empty promise to field a competitive team for 3 years.

    I hope Ricketts sees all the bad press hes getting and deviates from following the Loria way.

  • In reply to Jim Odirakallumkal:

    I don't think they're similar at all. For the Cubs it's about trying to build an organization the right way. Ricketts is willing to leave the baseball decisions up to Epstein and let him build a foundation rather than cater to the fans.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Your right he is leaving the baseball decision to Jedstein so he can hide behind them when it blows up.

    Your entitled to your opinion. Everyone is.

  • In reply to Jim Odirakallumkal:

    I prefer John's opinion to "you're's" because it makes a hell of lot more sense. You prefer an owner who meddles, like Loria?

  • In reply to Jim Odirakallumkal:

    Everyone has opinions but I haven't seen him as much as I'd like and I'm going with the scouting info I have on him. Not that the experts can't be wrong, of course.

  • I think the Blue Jays came out looking pretty good. JJ is a great one year gamble, Buehrle is not a terrible value over 3 years (I know 17 million is a lot, but when a guy like A Sanchez is asking for 6/90-100, then Buehrle's deal doesn't look so bad), and Reyes is overpaid, but mostly because of injury risk.

    It doesn't appear that the Blue Jays had to give up a "sure thing" prospect. Most of these guys are flawed in some way. They may all be good, but there is a good chance none pan out.

    It makes me wonder if the Cubs had offered a Vogelbach, Vitters, Jackson, and McNutt type of deal, what would the Marlins have said? I know we are rebuilding, but a chance to get some pretty solid talent, and not give up any real building pieces is interesting. If JJ was healthy, he probably can be flipped at the deadline for a prospect better than anything we would have had to trade away. Would have to get creative with positions, but at least it would have been interesting. Not saying I think this is the path the Cubs should have taken, but adding those 3 players would have made our rotation look really, really good next year. If our O hit at all, we could have been very dangerous.

  • In reply to bwenger:

    While I don't think the Jays package was particularly outstanding, I think that would beat the package you presented there for the Cubs. Marisnick is a top 100 prospect, maybe Nicolino too.

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    One other thing: Bud Selig actually needs to act here. (I know, I snickered, too.) Loria's actions are hurting the viability of major league baseball in Miami. That team needs a real owner, immediately.

  • In reply to Mike Moody:

    The game will be a lot better without Loria. Would do MLB a big favor if he left Miami.

  • I think there are two take-home messages here:

    1. Just another example of the trades one can make with a deep farm system.
    2. At this point, it is highly unlikely the Cubs will be the worst team in the NL next year. Bad news, I know, to those on this site who covet very high draft picks.

  • In reply to CubsFanInNorway:

    Yes. Jays didn't have to give up their best guys with the possible exception of Marsinick, but he's more projection than production right now. And they have depth at the positions in which they gave up both top prospects. Nicolino is good, possibly a #3, but he was their 3rd best pitching prospect. That's what depth does for you. Right now the Cubs would have to deal from the top of their deck to get anyone of value.

  • In reply to CubsFanInNorway:

    One other message to Theo is you can sign top/medium shelf free agents and still trade them in year two if things don't work out. There is no reason to have a 100 loss team in Chicago that is unwatchable on TV let alone spend money to attend a game. Spend some money on FA's and put at least a .500 team on the field this year granted you will only get a 10-15 draft pick next year but you and your staff have come so highly recommended, make the draft picks work.
    No one disputes the need for a strong farm and I like the way the administration is handling the farm but not at the cost of the parent club and fans. Attendance down 10% last year, if they put out another 100 loss team, down another 10-20% this year, selling the Wrigley experience will only last so long.

  • In reply to Rock:

    agree 100% ...Boston also traded BIG contracts to LA. Gonzalez, Crawford & Beckett. no need to drink the 100 loss Kool Aid.

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    In reply to CubFan Paul:

    I think the argument against this is that you're far more likely to lock in mediocrity by signing free agents their own teams didn't want to resign and then picking in the middle of the round. I don't think Miami or Boston's actions recommend loading up on free agents.

  • In reply to Rock:

    As a popular baseball saying goes: If you operate your organization try and please the fans, you'll wind up sitting with them one day.

    Build this thing right. We already had an ownership and a GM who tried to win with quick fixes.

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    The jays won this trade to me just because they kept all their elite pitching prospects..

  • In reply to Colman Conneely:

    I liked it for them for that reason as well, not to mention they picked up some good players. It may not work for Toronto, especially if Johnson isn't healthy, but I think they didn't give up so much that they'd get burned if it didn't.

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    Nice analysis John! BTW, how much money is trading hands, or did the Blue Jays pick it all up? I'm guessing it wasn't much given the prospects they gave up. Anyways, the Jays didn't give up anything special, and they couldn't rebuild forever.

    I don't see Stanton being traded unless it's to someone like the Rangers. I would welcome Nolasco, and I'd bet he can be had cheaply if the Cubs pick up all the money, which won't be a problem. Perhaps acquiring Nolasco might even be used as a means to help ease the 40 man roster situation for the Cubs.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Thanks. I believe the number being thrown around is 160M as the money saved by the Marlins. Jays may have gotten just a few million to help cover it, a pretty nominal amount.

    Guessing the Marlins have their own roster problems. I think most teams would love to alleviate their roster situations through trade, so it's hard to do.

    As for Nolasco, I threw that out there as perhaps the next biggest burden for them to unload. What a sad, sad team.

  • John, who's in the projected Blue Jay rotation now besides Buehrle and Johnson? Trading for a young blocked starter might be cheaper

    this is how we got Vizcaino (albeit being injured) from the Braves for spare parts. & personally if i'm Theo&Co i'd be trying to get Delgado also (for Soriano & $34M) who's the odd man out of the rotation again

  • In reply to CubFan Paul:

    The other certain guys in the rotation are Brandon Morrow and Ricky Romero. That gives them a potentially excellent top 4. But they've also traded Alvarez and will lose Villanueva, so those two even out. They don't really have a surplus now.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    after doing some research on Cecil, he's definitely a change of scenery guy. and it looks like he's not arbitration eligible yet

  • In reply to CubFan Paul:

    I like him best as a flyer from this list as well. Wade could be useful too but in a Shawn Camp sort of way, not as a possible long term guy.

  • I don't see Stanton moving unless he publicly demands a trade. In which case, I want Jed and Theo to pick the Miami carcass dry.

  • I like the idea of Nolasco coming here, I don't believe the Marlins will ask for too much. As for Stanton, unless he demands it and even then the Marlins will ask for the moon

  • the jays win this trade plain and simple. the surplus assets that this trade offers them will allow them to recoup everything but marisnick and nicolino. the fact that they didnt have to give up d'arnaud is a steal.

    this is also something people are forgetting, yes there are a 2 potential ugly contracts in this trade, but the jays made this trade at the right time. the yankees hands are pretty much tied, there lineup is getting older and more expensive. the red sox are basically rebuilding, the rays are starting to lose some talent and wont automatically be able to dip into their farm system to replace it. and the orioles are the orioles, that team last year could have easily only won 75 games. the AL east is down, so the jays are taking their shot at it, a very underrated aspect of this trade if you ask me and something cubs fans should take notice of.

  • Why is it that Boston has no trouble dumping several big contracts, and now the Marlins get rid of some huge backloaded contracts for 30 year old plus players and get some ok prospects.
    But the Cubs can't find a taker for Alfonso, with only two years left on his deal, and he was a 30 hr 110 rbi guy last year. And played some darn good defense, and is a plus in the clubhouse. Is he blocking deals?

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    If Stanton became available I would off the Marlins a blank check trade scenario. I'd trade anybody on this team and in the farm to get him. He's that good. Plus at 23 already a superstar power hitter who can sneeze out 35 HR's, only 480 K a year right now. He is basically what we hope Soler and Baez's ceilings are combined.

  • In reply to Jeremy Clark:

    So basically we trade places with the Marlins. One great player but No farm, no MLB talent, and no future.

    My guess is that the Marlins would love to trade places with the Cubs right now.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Who says we wouldn't have a farm. I'm not talking everything. I'm talking a reasonable blank check. We have a top SS prospect so we can afford to take hits. There is no point for waiting around for prospects who have high probability of not amounting to anything. Soler and Baez want to be Stanton. There is literally, no reason not to trade them for a superstar who is *23* and only making 480,000 dollars a year and already put up close to a 6 WAR season and put up a 4.5 WAR season a year ago. Seriously I'm not convinced people get how much of a bargain he is right now.

    If he's on the market, you do what it takes to get him.

  • In reply to Jeremy Clark:

    He's not on the market and, apart from salary, how do you know he's a bargain as far as what it would take to get him?

    The Stanton to Cubs scenario just isn't realistic. Not only would be it be extremely costly, but other teams could easily beat the Cubs offer while taking a much smaller hit to the overall health of their organization.

  • I see this as a good move by the Marlins. It may be owner driven, but they made poor decisions last winter with free agents and Ozzy. They have self corrected and will win more games this year than last. Cubs should talking to them about any player that will make us better.

  • Remember when the Mat Latos trade triggered the Anthony Rizzo deal?


    Though none of the names on this list is a Theo/Jed man-crush like Anthony is.

  • If the Cubs got Stanton, i would be thrilled. But I cannot see that happening.

    Cubs have to work on pitching for this club.

    Also, we would send a bad message to our farm system and fans on trading a Baez or a Soler. Our "key" players to the future. What if Stanton opted out on the Cubs? And Baez or a Soler are becoming stars with the Marlins.

    Many of you would want Theo's head.

    So put down the Cubs Kool Aid, and go back to the original plan of building this club.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    This!! Here here CubsTalk

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    Have to agree with you there Cubs Talk. Maybe somebody should actually make Cubs Kool Aid, by the way. Would have to be colored blue, of course.

  • The Cubs have $$ and not alot of impact prospects, I wouldnt trade any of the identified impact guys, I would rather overpay for a young enough arm like Anibal Sanchez . Look for teams looking for salary relief and wanting to move Young talent along with the contracts . Theo is in a good spot $$ wise .

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    I think they've planned it pretty well and if a FA comes along that makes sense, they have that flexibility. Sanchez is a good pitcher but I'm not sure he presents good value at his asking price right now.

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    I think there's more value to be had trying to pick up the Blue Jays excess players then trying to work with Miami, although I agree about Nolasco. I can't see a Stanton trade happening in a way that makes me feel good about the exchange of talent.

  • In reply to Kevin Heckman:

    Good post.

  • In reply to Kevin Heckman:


  • Off topic...anyone know where the Owners Meetings are being held? Actually in Chicago or in the burbs?

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    In reply to cowboy2024:

    The O'Hare Hyatt.

  • Because the 40-man rosters must be turned in by the 20th
    is either team going to have to trade/release any players?
    I hope the Cub can somehow benefit from this.

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    In reply to emartinezjr:

    Good question.

    Looking at the Blue Jays roster, they had all 40 spots taken before the trade. If the trade is approved, only 4 players come off the Blue Jays 40 man in the deal, Alvarez, Mathis, Escobar, and Hechavarria, and 5 needing to be added. So the Jays only need to clear 1 roster spot.

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    They'll either release or probably be forced to trade them for cheap.

  • A side note from this trade:
    The Cubs are preaching pitching and defense. I was checking some team stats last year and found it interesting that the Cubs and Rays were in about the same place offensively last year. However, pitching and defense was the difference. We all know that our minor leagues will begin to produce some quality bats over the next few years. It's all about finding a few pitchers and striking gold with one or two in the draft.

    The Cubs newfound stinginess will, over time, give us a lot of depth to deal in the minors. It'll take time and I imagine we will plug the few holes with nice free agents and finally have a perenial power house.

    Great for the Jays. I hope they keep the Yankees and Boston out of the post season for the first time since 1993.

  • In reply to Break The Curse:

    Agree with this assessment except don't agree Cubs are being "stingy". Feel they would spend money on one or two year deals, just not long term deals. And elite talent won't sign for one or two years so that's why they're "stingy" right now.

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    The Nigerian soccer team is playing in the Marlins stadium tonight vs. Venezuela. I think this trade was a Nigerian email scam :)

    Dear Alex,

    I am willing to give you $4 million U.S. if you help us move some of our assets to Canada.

    Jeffrey Loria

  • In reply to Just Win:


  • Tigers sign Hunter. 2 years, 26 million.

  • Detroit might have more outfielders than they need.

  • Wasn't Nolasco one of the players we traded to get Pierre? I could see him being a decent guy to pencil in as the 4th pitcher: Garza, Shark, Baker, Nolasco, Wood. It'd be nice to get another LHP, but I could see rolling with that....

  • In reply to Pura Vida:

    I believe you're right, Vida. They included Dontrelle Willis in that trade, too. What a horrible trade that was (if you're a Cub fan, that is).

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    In reply to HefCA:

    Dontrelle Willis was traded in a package for Matt Clement and Antonio Alfonseca before the 2002 season.

    Nolasco was traded with Sergio Mitre and Renyel Pinto for Juan Pierre in December, 2005.

  • In reply to Just Win:

    Oops - thanks for the clarification.

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    Some guys I'd like to see the Cubs go after from either team:
    C Rob Brantly FLA
    P Kyle Drabek TOR - probably impossible
    P Wade LeBlanc if he can recapture his 2009 form
    P Ricky Nolasco FLA - may be too much $
    P Henderson Alvarez FLA
    P Drew Hutchinson TOR
    P Chad Jenkins TOR

    Toronto certainly has a dearth of a pitching right now that should be available.

  • In reply to Jive Wired:

    Dearth means "lack of".

  • In reply to Jive Wired:

    I'm all for pursuing those names as well. They're certainly not untouchable. Alvarez probably sticking around since they just traded for him.

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    Sorry. thanks. i'm very sick.

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    contrary to all the hoopla, I'm not impressed with the players Miami got rid of, outside of maybe Josh.

    John, considering that it appears the Jays are trying to make a run of it now, wouldn't this be a perfect time to offer Garza and Marmol (plus $$$$$) for Sanchez, Syndergaard, and Norris?

    This is obv barring a clean bill of health for Garza.
    And I think that the $$$$$ would be necessary due to the contracts the Jays just picked up.

    But if the Jays want to compete in the East, Garza could be quite a piece and their pitching prospects aren't there yet..

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    That would be a great dream and would be a fair deal, but not a chance it happens.

    Jays now have all these guys going for rotation spots

    Brandon Morrow
    Josh Johnson
    Mark Burhrle
    Ricky Romero
    Kyle Drabek
    Brett Cecil
    JA Happ
    Drew Hutchinson ( I would love to get him)

    I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure Sergio Santos is still signed for this coming year so I doubt they would want mr wild man carlito marmol.

    I am sure they would love to have Marmol, but I don't think they will be taking on anymore payroll for esp for starting pitchers.

    Perhaps a couple guys get hurt and we can revisit this during the season, but right now. I think we have a better chance of getting Stanton from the Marlins !

  • In reply to Jim Odirakallumkal:

    I also like D Hutchison a lot. But Jays management is smart. I have to figure they like him even more, and want to keep him, and plug him in as their No. 5.

    Yes, Jays still have Santos, but they also have Casey Janssen, who became their closer last year when Santos went down and did a really good, under-the-radar job. The Jays have no reason whatsover not to stick w/Janssen as their closer. Not a fireballer, but good stuff, great control, very effective slider. Jays do not need nor will they want Marmol and his 9.8 mil salary.

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    Will this trade make FA's stay away from the offers with no trade clauses'? Theo/Jed don't offer NTC's and this could make it more difficult for them to sign a player that has multiple offers on the table. Even though most of the players that are considering the Cubs should know that they're signing to most likely be flipped at some point anyway.

  • Stanton's knees concern me. Very large human being, and awfully young to have frequent knee problems.

    Boy, do we disagree about Nolasco. He generally gives up tons of hits, negating his low walks. His actual average-year ERA's are quite high.. That's despite home pitchers' parks. He's costly but not a stud, and he's no longer all that young. So, IMO, he's a horrible fit for a rebuilding club.

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