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Cubs Rumors Thread: Getting creative with SP needs

Cubs Rumors Thread: Getting creative with SP needs

Day 2 of the GM Meetings.  All the pleasantries have been exchanged, hands have been shaken, and backs have been slapped.  Is today the day we get down to business?

  • 7:30 PM: As we've speculated here, Phil Rogers writes that the Cubs are indeed interested in signing Hyun-Jin Ryu.  The 25 year old LHP is a great fit, in my opinion, because of his solid fastball (90-93), good command, curve, slider, and change.  The change is his best pitch.  The bids are in and the Cubs are just waiting to hear if there's was the highest.  Fingers crossed!
  • 3:13 PM:  Talked to a source that told me to keep an eye on the Padres since the Cubs front office is still familiar with that team.  We didn't talk names, but one guy that popped into my mind was Clayton Richard.  The reason is that he's an arb eligible guy with a cost-conscious team.  He's due to make around $5M.  He throws strikes, gets groundballs, and eats up innings.  He's still just 29 and doesn't hit free agency until 2017, so the Cubs will have some value whether they decide to keep him or flip him to another team at the deadline.  As for what they may want in return, my guess would be young pre-arb pitchers who could build value playing in a large, forgiving ballpark like Petco.  It wont' take much, Richard's been a replacement level player the past two seasons and perhaps the Cubs can get him to bounce back to his 2010 production. Additionally, the Cubs could be interested in Casey Kelly, who was a coveted draft pick by the Cubs current front office while they were in Boston.  They went back and acquired Anthony Rizzo, could history repeat itself?  Not surprisingly, Kelly fits the exact mold of what this office wants.  He's athletic, he throws strikes, and he keeps the ball in the park...and he's just 22.  Young enough to be at the heart of this team's rebuilding plans. Kelly would obviously be more costly than a cost-controlled pitcher.  As a team that looks to build with pitching and defense, the Padres would like to upgrade their defense the middle, which could mean parting with Darwin Barney.
  • 11:09 AM: It looks like Maicer Itzuris will sign with the Blue Jays according to the Heyman/Knobler tandem at CBS.  I looked him as a possible utility man/RH complement to the Stewart/Valbuena early on, but as I've said recently, I don't expect the Cubs to pick up a 3B off the free agent or trade market.
  • 9:25 AM: We tend to assume the Cubs will  sign two of the second tier SPs on the free agent market, and while that may end up being true, one name we keep forgetting about is Hyun-Jin Ryu.  We've seen varying opinions on Ryu but the general feel is that he's at least a #4 and possibly a #3 in the NL.  Or course, it's always difficult to say how a pitcher can translate from either the NPB or the KBO to the MLB, so nothing is a given, but given he won't turn 26 until March and throws lefty, I like his odds more than most.  There isn't really any projection involved.  Ryu has something of a stocky body and is pretty much what he is going to be, so you have an idea of the talent level you're getting.  It appears that from what I've heard, the answer to that is that the talent is there to be a legit part of an MLB rotation.  And he certainly seems like a fit with the Cubs, who could use 2 SPs, especially a lefty.  His youth also makes him a nice fit.  The Cubs scout very well in the Pacific Rim and have signed a number of good players from Korea, so I trust that they've gotten a good look at Ryu.  If they ultimately decide he's a fit for the Cubs, we can be certain they did their homework.
  • 9:09 AM:  A lot of buzz yesterday about Trevor Bauer possibly being available.  There is no question he has the stuff of a #1 and that the Cubs would have almost certainly drafted him over Javier Baez had he been available.  He has also performed well, shooting through the D'Backs system and pitching well at each level.  So then you ask yourself, why trade him?  It appears the D'Backs don't like his approach on the mound but Bauer has been too stubborn to change it.  There are questions about his overall makeup and his ability to take instruction.  The Cubs have seen this before and have had varying degrees of success with it. Most recently it was Chris Volstad, whom they were unable to get to buy in. Jason Marquis had a reputation for that before he came to the Cubs, but it seems they were able to work with him a little.  Matt Garza is the best example of a pitcher with great stuff and a poor approach when he was with the Twins and Tampa.  Perhaps getting traded to his third team woke him up and Garza bought in (though even he had some doubts early).  The result has been he has become a better pitcher and utilizes his great stuff much more effectively.  Another comparison to show how all the talent in the world can be sabotaged by a bad approach is a non-pitcher: Corey Patterson.  It seems that the D-Backs have reached the Patterson level of frustration with Bauer.  What do yo think?  Should the Cubs take a chance here and possibly acquire their MLB ready #1 guy? Or do you think it will get costly and they'll just wind up with a talented but underperforming head case?
  • 9:00 AM: One more prospect list for you today.  It's Fangraphs whom I think is getting better at this every year.  It's a bit different than mine and the one at BP, which turned out to be suprisingly similar. The  most interesting rank is Dillon Maples at 4, which makes him the Cubs top pitching prospect over Arodys Vizcaino.  Also interesting is Duane Underwood over Juan Paniagua (whom he says there is not enough info on, fair enough) and Pierce Johnson.  Also no Gioskar Amaya or any Cubs 2B.  Two ranks that made me smile:  Marco Hernandez at #11 and Trey Martin at #15, which as you know are two of my favorite less heralded prospects.

Filed under: Rumors/Speculation

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  • John, since we don't have many traceable pieces, what do you think it will take to get Bauer?

  • In reply to SFToby:

    I would think it would take someone like Garza (if healthy). Both SPs have questions, maybe that's a place to start.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Garza for Bauer strikes me as Az selling super duper low given the difference in years of control. But I hope you're right, and I hope Theo & Jed jump on that if it's available.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I would do that deal in a hearbeat.

  • In reply to Eddie:

    As would I. Question is what else would they want, assuming they felt Garza was healthy. They're going to want some cost control in return.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    They really have hurt themselves, though. By essentially announcing Bauer is a headcase and they want to drop him, a healthy Garza and salary help straight up for Bauer in ST might be the best they're going to get. I really don't understand why they did things this way.

    This may explain the meeting on deadline day last year about pushing to acquire Garza -- they may have been wanting to drop Bauer even then.

  • I only way the Cubs should trade any of their top 3 prospects
    is for a great young pitching prospect. Is Baer him? Pitchers
    are always a gamble for many reasons.

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    Bauer is a tremendous prospect as far as physical talent. The questions are from the head up. Given how much the Cubs value makeup, I don't think they'll give up one of their top 3 guys.

  • I'd consider Ryu and pass on Bauer. I'm ready for some acquisitions.

  • I'm very intrigued by Ryu. Bauer I'd take if the Cubs buy low. Not going to give up top 50 guy for him at this point.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Agreed.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Bauer will take a top-50 guy to acquire though.....

    The Cubs have more cash than talent. Getting Ryu requires only cash, which we have. Getting Bauer requires talent, which we lack.

    This is why getting Ryu makes sense, and it doesn't to get Bauer

  • In reply to Zonk:

    Getting Ryu is definitely easier and it makes sense from that standpoint that you dont have to give up top young talent. But Bauer has a chance to be special and they have to at least look, but my guess is that you're right -- that it's unlikely the Cubs can get Bauer for either a vet like Garza with one year of cost control, or a prospect outside of their top 3.

  • Ryu kind of scares me. I've seen quite a few people say he ends up as a bullpen guy because he doesn't really have a third pitch. When you factor in a posting fee and his contract, that's a lot of money for a guy who is a #3-4 starter in the best case scenario.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    The only person I've heard say that is Law and from what I hear, he's the exception not the rule among scouts on that opinion. #3 starter is no small thing. I'd call Dempster a #3 and he was pretty good for the Cubs last year. Considering the Cubs have Samardzija and a bunch of 5th starters, I'll take a 3. That's what guys like McCarthy, Haren, Marcum, etc. are too.

  • I would not want the Cubs to give up a bunch of prospects for Bauer. While I think he has big upside, it sounds like he is very immature and the Cubs, like you have said John, value makeup. If the Diamondbacks ask for too much the Cubs should just pass

  • In reply to Steve Flores:

    If it's just immaturity maybe you take a chance if the cost is reasonable. If you just look at this guys stuff and results in the minors, it's shocking to see that he'd be available. Says a lot about frustrations D'Backs seem to be having.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Is it an immaturity issue with Bauer or is it the philosophy on preparation... Long toss. I know Bauer is a big proponent of the long toss and I thought I had heard he didn't see eye to eye with the dbacks on how he prepares.

  • Could they have use for Lake or Vitters in a small package
    for Bauer?

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    Possibly but not as a primary piece, in my opinion. I wouldn't consider those guys anything but secondary pieces at best.

  • While t/j is all about makeup, they are also all about impact talent. Bauer definitely qualifies there. That being said I think if we can trade one or two Logan Watkins caliber of prospects I do it, but no Soler no almora no Baez because no team trades a kid with bauers type of talent if there isn't something wrong there.
    Also last off season I wanted the cubs to sign an Asian lefty, Chen of the Orioles and some ppl were skeptical but that worked out really well for orlando, so if we can get a similar deal for ryu 3yr/10mil then I say we do it because worst case scenario he's a #5 and that's worth it.

  • In reply to jshmoran:

    I wrote an article that the Cubs should sign Chen just last year and you did make that comment back then...

    http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011/11/wei-yin-chen-is-a-perfect-fit-for-the-cubs/

    I became less optimistic as the offseason wore on that the Cubs would sign him.

  • I'd be all for Trevor Bauer. I've said it before and it's worth repeating-- Pitching is such a prized commodity. When you can get it- you get it. I don't care if you're rebuilding, tearing down, going for it, all in, taking a wait and see approach. If you can get good pitching, you get pitching. I crack up every time I see someone killing Hendry because he gave up 5 suspects for Matt Garza. He got a front line starter. End of story.

    Yeah, the missing speed is a concern. I'd comb all over those tests. But that long toss thing is something to see. And he's the type of pitcher Theo's been clamoring for. If you can get him. You get him.

    I know nothing about the Japanese pitcher other than to say the Chicago Sports in Haiku will be insufferable if we sign him.

  • In reply to felzz:

    What's done is done, but the Garza trade was a mistake when it was made and it's still costing the Cubs today. However, that doesn't matter any more. As for Bauer, If the Cubs could get him for a fair price, they should consider it.

  • In reply to felzz:

    I don't mind the Garza deal, just the timing of it. They were not good back then and Garza is now going to be a free agent and the Cubs still aren't close to winning. They'll have to recoup something better than Archer/Lee to make it worthwhile and right now that's iffy. Otherwise we got 3 prime years of a pitcher for a team that was past it's prime at first and now is a couple of years away from being good again. Idea was okay. Timing was bad.

    Makeup is a big concern for me. I've described it this way before: Makeup makes a player more likely to reach the potential that they already have. Without it, players become bigger risks. Sometimes they make it anyway, but there's enough times where they don't to make this a genuine risk, and I think the Cubs should be careful about what they give in return.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Totally agree with this assessment of makeup. Poor makeup can drag down the ceiling for a prospects and good makeup can raise the floor.

  • In reply to Pura Vida:

    Also poor makeup can spill over to other team members and effect their development.

  • John, thanks for the great articles.

    The fangraphs list has Vogelbach at #5. When do you think he'll be ready to hit at the mlb level?

  • In reply to SFToby:

    Thanks. I think if his defense comes along, his bat can move through quickly and he can possibly skip a level or get a couple of midseason promotions. That could put him in Chicago by 2015. The Cubs, though, don't have a need to rush him, so unless he forces their hand, then he's probably late 2016.

    I was mildly criticized for having Vogs #5 on my list and now both BP and FGs have backed me up. Now waiting on BA!

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    It's funny Voglebach's name has come up. He was the first name that came to mind when Bauer came up. Does AZ have a long term need at first? If so how much more than Voglebach would Bauer cost? I assume that b/c of the premium placed on SP that we would need to sweeten that deal with someone... If so what more would they want?

  • In reply to Jordan Dutcher:

    Paul Goldschmidt's pretty solid, and 25.

  • In reply to Jordan Dutcher:

    CubsML pretty much answered my question. Goldschmidt is only a slightly older roadblock than Anthony Rizzo. Probably not their priority. Otherwise I think it would have been an interesting place to start.

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    If Vogelbomb is definitely blocked by Rizzo, does it make sense to use him as a centerpiece for a trade? Sure he was a 2nd round pick, but he may never get serious run as a Cub.

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    In reply to Louie101:

    IMO, not yet. First, he's a couple years away from the majors, alot can happen between now and then. Second, we don't yet know what our holes will be, and what we should be trading for, other than young pitching. Finally, Vogelbach's value would increase with a good season at a higher level; at this point, he's only made it to Rookie league. Let's not get too excited yet....

  • In reply to Louie101:

    Yes, it does. 1B prospects values tend to be pretty low though until they prove they can hit at the upper levels. When you're talking about Vogs, it's all about that bat, so teams will want more reassurance that it will carry at the upper levels. I think it will but I wouldn't give a frontline SP, even a headcase, for a 1B who hasn't played full season ball yet.

  • In reply to Louie101:

    I agree completely. I would rush Vogelbach to the majors.. I'd think coaching him up at first to be acceptably decent in the field would be rather easy, compared to most other positions. I was thinking possible of a showcasing him as a 1B/DH during spring training or regular season games vs AL teams. If he is that rare of a hitter, then he'll have more value than you'd otherwise think, trade-wise. I can easily see another NL team trading for him if they need a 1B. Unless Rizzo goes down for an extended time, I can't picture Vogelbach ever taking his spot. I know he's a darling here at cubsden, but barring the DH ever coming to the NL, the man will never have a spot at Wrigley unless you want him sitting on the bench as a pinch hitter and spell Rizzo a few time a year, in which case he might be ready very soon. His greatest value to the Cubs is trade bait.

  • John, does the bidding for Ryu start tomorrow? Pretty sure I read that somewhere, but haven't seen it anywhere else.

  • In reply to CubsML:

    I thought that it did too but I'll double check.

  • John,
    Is you surprise at the love Maples in getting? On fangraph cubs top 15 prospects he is ranked 4th

  • In reply to Paris:

    I am. I'm not a big fan of his motion but I have to admit I didn't see him this year. Maybe the new regime tweaked it. If so, my opinion of him would be different and I'd rate him higher if it was a cleaner delivery.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    That said, his top two pitches may be the best pure combo in the system.

  • John,

    I agree that Ryu is a likely target for the Cubs. It's a rare case where there's a guy who is just entering his prime, and we don't have to give up anything other than money to get him, and there's no ceiling on what we can spend. With the Cubs potentially having difficulty attracting free agents, and with their need for pitching, he seems like an obvious fit.

    What I wouldn't rule out is that the Cubs sign Ryu plus a *couple* guys with injury questions, like McCarthy and Marcum. Most likely, at least one of McCarthy, Marcum and Garza will spend some time on the DL this year. And even if everyone is healthy, it allows you to break in Ryu slower, by giving him some time in long/middle relief, until someone either hits the DL or is dealt. It gives the Cubs a little extra depth and more options for the deadline and the period following the deadline.

    All in all, I would think it would be hard to pass up the possibility of getting a young #3 without giving up any talent in return.

  • In reply to SVAZCUB:

    I'm not sure they'll sign 3 starters unless one of them is a bargain bin guy like Scott Feldman, but I do like the thought process. It could give the Cubs flexibility for trades this summer.

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    I find it odd that Arizona is looking to trade Bauer after he's only pitched in 4 MLB games. Somewhat similar to Upton always being shopped, what is going on behind the scenes with those two players that we don't know?

  • In reply to Just Win:

    Exactamundo Just Win! You can probably bet that there are quite a few baseball people thinking the same thing. Now, that doesn't mean you don't trade for him, but I think you can't trade for an Upton unless you have depth. Texas has two very good blocked MLB ready prospects in Mike Olt and Jurickson Profar. They'll probably lose Josh Hamilton. I think that's the best fit for Upton and a team that can afford to take that kind of chance.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    And as for Bauer, that's one that's more likely to intrigue the Cubs. I trust they'll do their homework and determine what they feel is an appropriate return based on the risk involved.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Cubs Talk, this one's for you! Politics and sports!http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-trevor-bauer-barack-obama-20121023,0,5918904.story
    Basically, Bauer says Obama sounded childish and petty in one of the debates. In my opinion, professional atheletes and actors should be smart enough to stay out of the politcal landscape. There are times, like when Chris Kluwe of the Minnesota Vikings put his thoughts out on Gay Marriage when it makes sense.
    I worry about Bauer's comments because it speaks to his mental make up. Every athelete has their own opinions, and are entitled to them. But they need to be careful what they say in the media and what they Tweet out. Brandon Marshall tweets all the time and is very opinionated, but seems to know where the line is. Bauer didn't cross any line, he just probably would have been better served not tweeting that out to the world.

    John, what sort of mental make up concerns have you heard about in regards to Bauer? Is it all on the field, or are there off the field issues?

  • In reply to Break The Curse:

    Okay, found another article. This makes sense to me:
    http://arizonasports.com/?sid=1579658&nid=42

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    In reply to Break The Curse:

    Thanks for the link. There must be a lot more bad behavior than just "he needs to grow up." This is a 21 yr old who was a top 3 pick. Of course he's going to have an ego and think he knows what he's doing, almost any 21 yr old does, especially someone who has gotten that far already on their natural talent. That's normal. So for them to reportedly be willing to deal him, that's a major red flag to me if I'm interested. I would have to do as much background checking on the guy as possible.

  • In reply to Just Win:

    Agreed. Find out if this is a "maturity" problem or a "personality" problem. If it's the latter, then maybe Cubs should pass.

  • In reply to Break The Curse:

    They seem a little more complex than maturity issues. I'd buy low but no way I'm giving equal value in terms of prospects, which means no Baez, Almora, and Soler. If that's not good enough, so be it.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I can't get a read on the DBacks organization in general, my guess is they are constrained by $$? They've had some nice young pieces for years but just don't seem to be going for it by adding those last couple of pieces to get over the top. If there is a firesale on Bauer, Upton, and / or others I guess they'll officially go into "reboot" mode?

  • In reply to Ryno2Grace:

    It's weird. I wouldnt say they're strapped and at any rate, Bauer is cost controlled and Upton is on a team friendly deal. Maybe they're trying to pick up multiple pieces. On the other hand, If they trade Upton and somehow get Profar back, kudos to them. I'll call that a win for them.

  • In reply to Just Win:

    It is odd how they tip their hand on their players. Also consider that they threw Stephen Drew under the bus publicly last year, making it impossible to get anything for him. He played ok with Oakland despite the D'backs' FO gaffe.

  • I've heard Arizona is looking for a shortstop, so why not package Garza, Barney, and someone like Lake (and some $$) for Bauer. If you can get him without giving up a top prospect, you have to do it. Pitching is so important.

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    In reply to gocubsgo:

    Jim Hendry is that you?

  • In reply to gocubsgo:

    I think there are very few people these days who think Barney can play SS full time. I'm one of them that thinks he can't. That said, all it takes is one team, but giving up two proven MLB starters for a questionable prospect is high risk. You've got more guts than me on that one :)

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    The way I look at it, Garza will be gone anyways at the deadline and Barney is replaceable. He's been very solid, but soon he will cost more (much like Theriot a few years back) and no longer be as valuable. A prospect like Lake gives Arizona some potential, but shouldn't hurt the Cubs very much. There is nothing more valuable in baseball than a 21 year cost controlled top of the line starter.

  • In reply to gocubsgo:

    Those are great points but I don't like the idea of putting all my eggs in that basket. Trade is also hard because of roster situation. D'Backs would need to open up two additional spots on roster for that to happen. I think more likely would be Garza and a non-rostered prospect on a multi-player deal.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Ya that makes sense. I guess I'm just worried the Cubs future starting pitching. They should have the offensive talent, but they won't be able to make a run without pitching. I'd much rather they use their resources to get pitching than someone like Upton.

  • In reply to gocubsgo:

    Agreed. They can always build up their reserves of corner OF'ers through draft, int'l signings, etc.

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    In reply to gocubsgo:

    Seems like a lot for Bauer. If Arizona is shopping him, then I'd sound them out for a buy low scenario. What about Jackson and one of our higher-level lower-ceiling pitching prospects to start with? Trade a player with one (major) flawed tool but great makeup for a player with great tools but a flawed makeup.

  • In reply to Kevin Heckman:

    Agree on the buy low. They're already a bit crowded as far as OF goes, so not sure they want Jackson.

  • In reply to gocubsgo:

    I believe "gocubsgo" is Mark Grace and he is drinking again.

  • Successful organizations move talented head cases that do not play nice all the time, often sooner than later. For the most part those moved continue to cause problems where ever they go. The Dbacks probable are able to access the difference between immaturity and makeup.

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    In reply to 44slug:

    Or at least the Dbacks think they know the difference between immaturity and makeup. I'd pass on Bauer unless he came relatively cheap, either in terms of trading what little depth we have at another position or dealing a pending free agent. I wouldn't be inclined to deal Garza for him. I'd rather see us re-sign Garza at this point. I doubt Garza's trade value is very high after the injury and dealing him at the trade deadline next year won't get the same level of prospects because he can't bring a compensation pick. He doesn't seem to have had a gigantic trade value, but he does have a high value to the team, so re-sign him. Just don't hand out no-trade clauses like Hendry did.

  • In reply to Just Win:

    Just Win, you've hit on something that I've been thinking for a while. If we know that Garza's value to fetch top prospects has diminished, then what the hell is wrong with signing a guy that is probably a #2 pitcher?

    I'm not in love with Garza. I think he is a #2 guy. His defense is more than a little suspect, and he hasn't learned to bunt in his two years in the NL. That being said, he's still pretty young, and is a pretty solid pitcher. We know that teams are going to question his arm in the spring, and once the season starts a team that acquires him will not receive compensation. When you're to that point, I think the Cubs should sign Garza to a 3-5 year contract and have a pretty decent pitcher who is in his prime when they are starting to compete. We all know that the Cubs are going to have to spend money for a pitcher like him when it is time to compete. Why not already have him taken care of two years early before the salary for a pitcher like him has inflated? I feel a whole hell of a lot better going forward if we've got two solid pitchers in the rotation on a building team.

    You all know my opinion. I don't think the Cubs need to be terrible each season just so they can have better draft position. This front office has added young talent over the past year, and they are going to continue to do that with excellent draft position and scouting this year. Let's see how this team competes with a rotation of Garza, Smardzija, Wood, _____, and _____. We may find ourselves in a place where we don't need to add a whole lot in 2014-15 to compete. I do know that the cost of a #1 or #2 guy isn't going to be any cheaper in two seasons than it is now, and we've already got one of those on the roster.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Good point. They've worked with him now for over a year. Maybe they don't see any progress as far as getting through to him.

  • Or they realize they have Archie Bradley, Tyler Skaggs, Wade Miley and figure the "Which one can we afford to give up/ Which prospect will bring back the pieces we need equation nets out at him? It just seems foolish to run to the "Oh they're frustrated with him and are cutting bait answer.

    If Trevor Bauer we're in the Cubs system, he'd be #1. Maybe #2. MAYBE. If he is healthy and it's a maturity, change of scenery thing, I don't see how Epstoyer doesn't pull the trigger on it.

  • In reply to felzz:

    I think it's more than that Felzz, though that certainly factors into their thinking. If they didn't have those other guys, they'd probably be holding on to Bauer no matter how much he annoys them.

    That said, they've already stated that there is some concern about that makeup.
    "I will say this: he is the employee, and in an employer/employee situation it's incumbent on the employee to make adjustments to satisfy the needs of his employer," Diamondbacks managing general partner Ken Kendrick told Arizona Sports 620's Burns and Gambo. "And I hope and trust that that will occur."

    Kendrick said there is no doubting Bauer's ability, but he did seem to question whether or not the pitcher has the proper mental makeup to succeed at the big league level.

    Sounds like some frustration to me. Now is he just an immature guy? Maybe. He is just 21, but I don't think you can dismiss it. Not ever 21 has that sort of attitude.

  • This reminds me some of the Cardinals Rasmus situation. He didn't take instruction, they questioned his makeup, and they shipped him off for a rental in Edwin Jackson.

    Given that's the precedent, a trade for Matt Garza doesn't sound so crazy.

  • What kind of prospect package do you think the Dbacks are looking to get back for Bauer? I heard you say above that Garza would be a good starting point value wise, but I think they'd have to be in more of a win now mode to want him with only one year left on his contract.

  • In reply to Carne Harris:

    I think it would take more than Garza. I'm guessing the deal would be expanded where the D'Backs get a prospect or a young player with some cost control.

    I don't see a great fit, but they have to at least look into it.

  • i read keith laws chat today and one interesting note i read about was the royals 40 man roster. they have to protect a large # of pitchers and will probably have to leave a good pitcher unprotected. the guys named in the chat are:
    montgomery, lamb, ventura, dwyer, sulbaran and joseph.
    law said he would definitely protect the first 4. but sulbaran and joseph are very useful arms and if for some reason the royals dont have space to protect the top 4 then i hope we can snag one of these guys in the rule 5 draft.

  • In reply to jshmoran:

    Remember Sulbaran when he was a prospect with the Reds, interesting prospect. Looks like he can stay a starter long term. Joseph can be a LH power reliever with a couple of tweaks and more consistent command. Wouldn't mind gambling one either one.

  • With the 2nd pick in the Rule draft, I can't see them not selecting
    someone. Even if he is a A or AA ex-top prospect.

  • Bill Bray just elected free agency. Might be worth a flyer.

  • Per MLB sources, the Cubs put a bid in on Ryu.

  • I'm following this closely, hope to hear soon.

  • The Scott Maine era ended in Toronto.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    Remember the Maine!

  • If the Royals have to protect a large number of pitchers on the 40 man, why did they claim Volstead? He was better than someone they were going to waive?

  • In reply to cavemancubbie:

    Good point :) Maybe they're looking for guys with MLB experience. They're getting wary of rebuilding over there.

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    When will we know who won the bid?

  • In reply to Colman Conneely:

    Ryu's team will be notified today or early tomorrow (in Korean time). As of this post it's noon there.

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    I really think that if the Cubs could trade Garza and Barney for Bauer and mediocre prospect, they should pull the trigger in a heart beat. I love Garza, but he probably doesn't have a future with this team. And as for Barney, looking at reality, he is a good defender who benefits from the defensive shifts and is below average offensively. As much as Cubs fans like him, he is replaceable. If the Cubs make this trade, their system and their future looks MUCH better than it did before.

  • In reply to Demarrer:

    Garza needs to show he's healthy before anyone trades for him. I think Bauer will be traded before then.

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    Ok guys, I've seen some pretty dumb stuff written by tribune writers, but this is, by far, the worst thing i've read from a so called "professional" Journalist in Phil Rogers. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1109-rogers-gm-meetings--20121109,0,3734225.column

    Phil Rogers thinks the cubs should trade Castro straight up for Upton simply because of the presence of 19 yr old Baez makes him expendable. Do I even need to explain why that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for this team? What makes me angrier is that guys like this get paid to write this crap while people like John write quality material day-in-and-day-out for free. Am I overreacting?

  • I dont agree that the Cubs should trade Castro for Upton it would not fix the problem. But I am about Suggest something that will be very unpopular. Rosenthal wrote that the Rays maybe will to trade Moore for a Bat. I believe the Cubs have enough talent up the middle in their system to trade Castro. I would suggest a trade sending the Castro to the Rays for Matt Moore, Hak Ju Lee and Enny Romero.

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    In reply to WickitCub:

    Cubs still give up too much value in that deal.

    People need to understand the tremendous amount of value a guy like Castro has in this league. Young, top 10 shortstops who are only going to get better are a very rare commodity and and valued extremely high because of it. I believe high-end Catchers and true-blue 100% ace #1 starters are the only things rated higher right now. You can count on one hand how many teams have a SS of Castro's caliber. If your trading this type of player you have to get much more than that.

  • In reply to Marcel Jenkins:

    Right there with you Marcel - that extension that Castro just signed too means he's going to be a young Top 10 shortstop honestly playing at below market value in the out years of that new contract if he keeps progressing at the rate he has been progressing.

  • In reply to Marcel Jenkins:

    Alright, You kind of made my case then. I have talked to numerous Scouts and development professionals and each and everyone of them believe that Moore will be a true #1. Not to mention he is LHed which is even more rare and valuable. He also has just as friendly a contact as Castro. The Cubs would also get Enny Romero (LHP who has frontend of the rotation stuff and would be in the cubs top 10 prospect list if not in the top 5) and they would get Hak Ju Lee back (who I still believe in and think will be a quality MLB SS, he wont be Castro but he will be average to above average MLB SS).
    If they could get those 3 for Castro I would be just fine trading him and pitching wise which is truely their biggest problem it woul

  • I think all this talk about trading Castro or Barney is not such a good idea. In Barney's case with the gold glove and low pay his value may never be higher, but still, it would be hard to get equal value in a trade. McJedstien may listen to offers, but they will not be shopping either, as they will trying to fill holes not creating new ones.

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