Cubs Rumor Thread 7/29: Garza may be a tough sell

Cubs Rumor Thread 7/29: Garza may be a tough sell

Getting down the nitt-gritty here. The focus is still on Ryan Dempster and, to a lesser extent, Matt Garza.  The Cubs have a few other players to deal, such as LHP Paul Maholm, IF-OF Jeff Baker, OF Reed Johnson, RP Sean Camp, 1B-OF Bryan LaHair, and perhaps OF Alfonso Soriano.  There is little doubt, however, that the best value the Cubs would receive would come from their two top starting pitchers.  That will make or break the deadline, which is now less than 3 days away...

  • 4:16 PM: Jon Heyman tweets that the Cubs proposed a Ryan Dempster and Alfonso Soriano package deal to the Dodgers, but so far nothing has come of that.  One thing I've felt here is that the Cubs would rather add players to get a deal done than subtract from any prospect package.
  • 4:13 PM:  A slow day but here's a new rumor and a new name.  The Mets and Cubs discussed Geovany Soto but didnt really get anywhere, according to Andy Martino of the New York Daily News.  More than likely, this was a buy low attempt by Sandy Alderson, so the Cubs probably aren't missing much here.
  • 10:25 AM: Ken Rosenthal writes that the Cubs will not give a discount on Matt Garza for a minor injury, which is the right move.  If he proves healthy, Garza will still have value in the offseason since there will be more teams in play and he'd still be worth a comp pick.  Still some think he could be traded as he is less of a health risk than Josh Johnson, but one scout called it "unlikely".
  • 9:19 AM: Buster Olney writes (insider required) that GMs might have a hard time selling Matt Garza to their bosses.  The injury has left some uncertainty and may make more sense to a team like the Blue Jays, who are looking more to build for 2013 than 2012.  Of course, if that's the case, then you could well see the Cubs hang on to Garza.  The market is becoming limited because of Garza's injury and previous trades, but the market should open up again in the offseason.  I'm now extremely doubtful Garza gets traded.  The Jays may still be interested but it's hard to picture them paying full value right now.

Filed under: Rumors/Speculation

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  • That's what I feared, very bad timing for the Cubs. If not for the injury, Garza would have been traded already, a very tempting target for teams like the Jays or Dodgers.

  • In reply to Steve Flores:

    Things just aren't falling into place here, but that's why I'm glad Epstein and Hoyer are in charge right now. They'll hold strong here and get the best value possible.

  • In reply to Steve Flores:

    Highly doubt it. It sounds like they wanted a King's Ransom for Garza. My concern is trading a good pitcher like Maholm. There is a club option for 2013, why trade him? He's solid in the back of the rotation.

  • In reply to lokeey:

    The club option for next year is what gives him added value. Most teams seem to view him as a bottom of the rotation guy, though, so I'm not sure they'll get anyone that great for them anyway. I don't think he's going anywhere because of that.

  • If Dempster has a fantasy of coming back to the Cubs in 2013
    he better agree to a trade and quick.

  • I'm not convinced that any team was willing to pay the price for Garza before the injury, so I never expected him to be traded anyway. A team was going to have to overpay to get him, and it just wasn't looking like any team was willing to do that. I would extend him and front load the contract for the years when payroll will have more room, plus it will give more freedom in the future, if they ever do want to trade him.

  • In reply to Clark n Addison:

    I think it was a 50/50 shot before the injury. I'd give it more like a 25% shot now, maybe less.

  • It seems one of Theo's biggest problems for trading Ryan Dempster (other than Ryan apparently going back on his word.) Is that matt garza is also on the roster. If I'm buying the top line booze, I want to go home with the hottest girl. So when Theo starts mentioning Zach Lee, or then-Justin Turner, or whatever high en ready-to-pitch next year pitcher, the opposing GM immediately retorts with Garza. Maybe now that Garza is out of the equation with this injury, ( as well as Grienke, and Hammels being off the board.) People might start looking at Dempster more objectively.

  • In reply to felzz:

    That's a good point, especially in the case of the Dodgers. I think that's probably what they were thinking, but when push comes to shove they may give up something else. My feeling is that a compromise will come in the form of the Cubs adding a player, they won't compromise on prospects.

  • I still don't necessarily love Garza (fielding problems, lacks the ability to bunt effectively), but I'm okay with keeping him. With Garza, Shark, Wood, and Maholm, that's not a bad start to the rotation, with some upside for the future. It may lack a true #1, but when the Cubs are ready to compete, they might be able to find one through free agency. If Maholm leaves or is traded after next season, then I am confident that they can find a similar type pitcher to replace him.

    Get a good prospect for Dempster, and by all means dangle some other parts, such as Johnson, Baker, Camp, etc. I think there is something to at least being competitive, even while rebuilding, because fans are more patient that way. That's why I would be careful with dangling guys like LaHair, Barney, or Russell.

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    D'Backs just got Chris Johnson from the Astros for IF Brian Bochering and a pitcher.....I'm itching fo the Cubs to ge in on something

  • I'm totally OK with waiting til offseason for Garza deal. It could be worse.

  • Ive already prepared myself for a let down at the trading deadline. No young controllable pitching prospects for garza and Dempster will accept the qualifying offer of 1 year $12 million. I can't see him get $12 mill for 3 years in free agency. Because of this let down I've preparded myself for, I'm also preparing myself for least 2 more years added on until the cubs are competitive. Thanks Dempster.

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    The key for me is to be optimistic but be prepared for the worst. I do think Dempster gets traded and we'll be happy with the return.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    John, that first sentence is the true definition of a Cub fan!! Serves us well now and in everyday life, although I'm not averse to experiencing other emotions. Go Cubs!!

  • In reply to AdolphoPhillips66:

    Haha! Very true. Works as a life philosophy too!

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    No way Dempster would accept a 1 year,12 million qualifying offer. He'll easily get a 2 year, 18 million or 3 year, 24 million offer as a free agent.

  • No gm will give a 36 year old pitcher 3 years and $24 million!

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    Time will tell.

  • Dempster might not get a deal for two years as easily as you think. GMs will remember his actions with the Dodgers and Atl. Even if he signed with te Dodgers after becoming a free agwnt he won't get the kind of contract he wants and there's no way he'll be back with the cubs.

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    I don't feel a letdown if Garza isn't traded. I've been a fan of extending him and building a staff around him...unless the FO can get premium talent in return, and if they can't (and won't right now), that's fine. Demp will be gone for sure and they'll get some value although not what we were so excited about a week ago. I also don't feel the re-building has been set back two years because of the developments as Joshnk24 writes. Trades are exciting and dreaming of an overhaul would be fun, but trading to trade is the wrong approach. We're so used to the former FO making a splash at the deadline, but remember what the net results were. I guess I have blind confidence in this FO. The Cubs will be able to make moves after the deadline that may surprise everyone.

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    Peter Gammons was just on MLB and said the Cubs have been apprached by other teams about Demp but had to tell them no because th bitchwants to be with his girl Ted Lilly in LA....If he's got prob with his wife or family, suck it up for 2 months then go whereever the hell you want to

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    In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    We're all upset with Dempster, but that's not cool.

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    In reply to Just Win:

    Sorry guys, it wasn't intended to be a slur, sorry about my choice of words

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    In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    Ok. Sick and tired of putting all our rebuilding hopes on one guy. Sure, could the Cubs have gotten more than what was thought possible? Yes. But it one move in a series of moves towards competitiveness. The bigger issue is that Garza is still on this team from the beginning of the 2012 season because Theo asked for the moon last off-season, which didn't work. How do you know this has anything to do with Ted Lilly and not his special needs child. As a social services employee and a person with a disbility, I'm appalled by your reference to Dempster's homosexuality. The guy's got 10-5 rights. And the pundits say Cubs fans are a patient group with a long-term rebuild. If these common statements directed toward Dempster are any indication, I don't see how a rebuild will be successful. Not that I'm a big fan of a long-term rebuild anyway.

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    In reply to Lou Sofianos:

    @ Lou, it wasn't intended as a homoseual reference..It's like a little highschool girl who can't be apart from her friends without having a fit!!! Look Lou, i'm sorry that his daughter is special needs but in a span of 2.5 months in Atlanta how in thath gonna effect him negatively....He's willing to go to LA without any issue though..come of it... I agree that Garza is the bigger issue and Theo had every right to ask for the moon, seeing what other teams gave up for similar pitchers who realisatically may not be as good as Garza like Gio and Trevor Cahill...Garza was still under control for 2 more years and is playoff battle tested...I'm in favor of a proper rebuild, because it hasn't been done properly thats why the Cubs never win....We have lost patience with Demp because HE LIED!!!! The Cubs intention was to move him first so then they wouldn't create competition for Garza on the market...He's taking as much time as Fre dMcGriff did.. He knew the score, Theo would not have done the deal with the Atl if he thought Demp would nix it...I am patient for a rebuild, with kids not with a 36 year old millionarire acting like a petulant child..I'd rather get a young tangible asset like DelGado who has lots of upside rather than a supplemental pick...DelGado is in the bigs not 4 years away like a pick...Lou I didn't attempt to offend you or anyone but I'm mad at Demp, he is the lynchpin..Once he's moved you'll see this rebuild in full force

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    Off the trade theme for a minute...does anyone realize the Cubs have the best defensive SS in the league? (right on cue, commits an E) Also the best defensive 2B in the league? To me, that's a sign this team is "rebuilding" regardless of trade news!

  • In reply to AdolphoPhillips66:

    Nice catch there. Castro is actually 2nd in UZR among SS this year and Barney is first among 2Bs.

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    The Cubs need to get more players like this new guy playing LF. Nothing but hustle and clutch hits! Flying around the bases...triples, just now legging out a bloop double! This kind of exciting play is what the team needs to see more of!!

  • In reply to AdolphoPhillips66:

    Yeah...who is that guy?

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Love Brenly's comment, he "found the fountain of youth somewhere in Lake Michigan!" Shows you what accountability means from this FO.

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    Blue Jays scouting Maholm today? Interesting!

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Where'd you hear that? Did they say it on the broadcast and I missed it?

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    MLBNR.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    What's MLBNR?

  • MLB Network Radio.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Thank you, John.

  • Lahair pulled in 7th and not for double switch....trade?

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    I was wondering that myself. Seemed early for a defensive replacement to enter.

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    I think the 3 strikeouts in 3 ABs was the reason...

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    Mather a defensive replacement in RF?? I can only hope that wasn't the reason.

  • In reply to AdolphoPhillips66:

    No shaving cream pie from Garza in post game interview. Trade?

  • In reply to TheSinisterUrge:

    Lol. That could be a meme.

  • Cubs and Mets apparently discussing trade for Soto...

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    doesn't seem like it will happen.....mets looking for RH platoon. Probably looking to buy low....

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    Yes, just posted but it appears to be going nowhere right now.

    Also Cubs proposed adding Soriano to Dempster deal with Dodgers.

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    Per John Heyman via David Schuster (WSCR) the Cubs have offered both Soriano and Dempster to LA, but LA isn't biting yet,,,which isn't surprising because they want everything without giving anything up

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    In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    Sorry John, you beat me to it....Ned seems unwilling to give up anything, bnot that he has much to offer

  • In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    No problem Luigi...feel free to post updates as you hear them.

  • Tuesday cannot come fast enough at this point, at least then we will know

    The dodgers can go pound sand if they keep offering nothing, josh lindblom as a primary piece does not do it for me at all

    Soto's value has to be really low this point right? Really too bad as i could certainly do without having to watch him everyday ever again.

  • In reply to Andrew13:

    Agreed. No way do I take Lindblom as headliner. That's a joke. Keep him, we'll take the pick.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I'm with you on that too, John.

  • Rizzo with the walk off HR, nice!!

  • Officer Barbrady from South Park sums up the whole Cubs trade deadline activity with his catchphrase, "Move along folks, nothing to see here"

  • New post guys up on some stuff from a source. He believes I will have new prospects to talk about soon. Yay!

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