Cubs Rumor Thread 7/21: Dempster looking for an extension?

Cubs Rumor Thread 7/21: Dempster looking for an extension?

It's the weekend!  Dempster's so-so start shouldn't affect his value at all, except that technically he has one less start to give his potential new team.

  • 2:40 PM: The Astros announced they have acquired two minor league pitchers and a player to be named later.  The pitchers the Astros received were RHP Matt Heidenreich and LHP Blair Walters.  Neither are high end prospects.  It wasn't specified as to whether the Sox picked up the tab, but based on the prospects received, it would seem so.  Neither is considered a top prospect in a relatively weak White Sox system.
  • 2:15 PM: The White Sox have acquired RP Brett Myers.  Myers is signed through 2012 with a vesting option for 2013 (and a $3M buyout).  Myers is a relief pitcher and the White Sox weren't serious suitors for any Cubs players, but it may give us an idea of how much that extra option year is valued.  Will update when I see the players that the White Sox sent in return.
  • 1:35 PM: Carrie Muskat confirms what we stated in the 11:00 update -- that it's the Dodgers seeking that extension with Ryan Dempster before they give up top prospects.  The Dodgers did say it wasn't worth their while to part with top prospects for a rental.  The implication here could be that they prefer a guy already signed for next season, such as Matt Garza or Paul Maholm, as some have suggested-- or they will part with a top prospect as long as they are assured that they can keep Dempster beyond 2012.  The latter seems more likely to me as I don't think the Dodgers have the depth to trade for Garza and Maholm is a lesser pitcher than Dempster despite his recent hot streak.  Multiple reports say that the Cubs are willing to settle for "one or two young arms".  If it's one arm, Muskat suggests that the Cubs are holding out for top prospect Zach Lee.  Personally, I'm not sure he's worth all the trouble unless the Cubs see something that I didn't (which is very likely).  When I saw him pitch, his velo was more like 88-92 and his breaking stuff was a little inconsistent.
  • 12:15 PM: Jon Heyman reiterates the Dodgers likely out on Dempster and lists the Nationals, Cardinals, and Braves as the most likely suitors.
  • 11:00 AM: Ken Rosenthal tweets that the Dodgers are now "very unlikely" to land Ryan Dempster.  It seems they don't want to give up top prospects for a rental (yet they'll give up $42M to a player they've hardly seen play in Yasiel Puig).  So that offer on the table we've reported probably wasn't a very good one if it didn't include any of their top prospects.  It also may fit in with the with what Kusinski said below but perhaps it's the Dodgers looking for some assurance beyond 2012.  For those thinking we should take what they have offered, remember that the Cubs settled for RHPs Brett Wallach and Kyle Smits and neither came close to making it to the majors.  The Cubs would be better off getting that draft pick by offering Dempster 1 year at approximately $12M rather than settle for secondary prospects from a system that just isn't very good.
  • 10:45 AM: Peggy Kusinski tweets that the hold-up may be that Ryan Dempster is looking for a 2 year extension.

Filed under: Rumors/Speculation

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  • I'm not sure how much stock I am putting in the idea that Dempster is looking for a 2 year extension. If that were the case, than the Dodgers would have no fears giving up their top prospects, as Demp wouldn't be a rental anymore. I think that the reason he is still a Cub is cause the F.O. set a price when they saw 10 teams scouting him and have refused to take the Dodgers discarded has-beens. If Hendry were still in charge, you can bet that Demp would have been traded a week ago for 3 guys who would never see AA, let alone Wrigley.

  • In reply to supercapo:

    That's exactly what I've been saying. Does anyone want to see another return like the one we got for Ted Lilly? I'd bet the farm that that's the type of offer the Dodgers are throwing out there.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I'm inclined to agree with you John, and if that is the case, then screw them and the horse they rode in on. There's a new sheriff in town, and he and his deputies aren't pushovers like the old sheriff.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Exactly. If the price is too low, don't sell.

  • I would not give any 35 year old player more than a 1 year contract.

  • I'm starting to feel like another cubbie occurrence is going to happen and Dempster won't be traded. It's starting to seem that jedstein have held out to long and teams are slowly backing away. Maybe it's the pessimistic cub fan in me, but Im starting to feel we are going to be disappointed at the trade deadline.

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    Trade for the sake of trading is a bad idea. We saw that with Hendry in the past and he got prospects that couldn't get past AA, much less the majors. If nobody will offer value, take the draft pick instead.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Don't the cubs only receive a draft pick if Dempster turns down 1 yr at $12? I can't see him turning down $12

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    If he is willing to be traded so he can go to a contender and help the Cubs, maybe he is willing to decline and sign with a contender next year. At 35 yrs old, I'm sure it is about more than $$$$

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    He may not turn it down, you're right. He loves it here. The only way he would is if he thought he could get financial security elsewhere with a multi-year deal.

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    I get the same feeling. Dempster and Garza serve no purpose
    for the Cubs long term plans. Even if they can win 20 games
    next year, so what!

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    By the same token, if you only get guys who will be middle relievers or 5th starters, so what? Cubs have plenty of those kinds of arms in their system.

    I'd be more disappointed if we settled for mediocrity on Dempster than if we didn't trade him at all.

  • In reply to Joshnk24:

    teams are trying to play hardball. Hendry isn't here anymore. While I don't want to end up not trading them while they have value, I'd rather they stay than the Cubs get nothing for them.

    In other words, why trade them below value--as Theo and Jed see it?

    The Cubs aren't desperate here. They have quality pitchers, and one in Demp, who is having a fine season.

    If other teams want to improve their pitching staff, they have to pay. There should not be any "giveaways."

    Improving a rotation and having a better chance in the playoffs might not be worth it to some teams. That's fine.

    But in the next ten days, with a hard deadline in place, buyers will pay. And if they don't, they might regret it in October.

    If a "fair" deal was on the table, Demp would have never started last night.

  • MLBTR: "Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports that the Dempster sweepstakes is currently down to the Braves, Nationals, and Cardinals. "

  • Well, I spoke to my idiot friend down in St. Louis and he's willing to trade Shelby Miller for Ryan Dempster. And if we two idiots can get a deal done, I don't see why smart people like Theo and.....Ehh, nevermind.

    I agree that Dempster's value doesn't go up and down because of one start. But what about Justin Turner? Because he doesn't have a back record to fall back on. And his last two starts haven't really screamed "anchor starter of the future". I know as a Cub fan I'll be fairly interested in his next start against the White Sox.

    The Nationals make a lot of sense for Demp, but the problem is s that the players Theo, and Jed Covet are probably to valuable for just Demp.

    Should be interesting. Hopefully Arguello keeps himself hydrated and gets some shut down time. I'm afraid the ArguelloBot 5000 might overload during this trade period. Effing Heyman and Rosenthal keep overloading him with code.....Bow tie bastard.

  • In reply to felzz:

    I'll take your friend's deal in a heartbeat.

    Is Jacob Turner getting the start tomorrow against the Sox? If so, I'll definitely be watching and I don't watch the Sox often when the Cubs are on at the same time.

    I was pretty drained yesterday by the end of the day, I zonked out early and then slept until 10:15 today. That never happens! But we had a record day here. Usually our busiest time of the year is the draft, but yesterday was nuts.

  • I think that the Dodgers are really going to regret not dealing for Dempster, if that is how things work out. They want to win, but aren't willing to pay the price needed to build a championship team. They only want to move players that they know won't be pieces for them, in order to get the top arms available. Hendry might have let them get something for nothing, but Theo and Crew aren't that foolish. You can't low ball this F.O. They do their homework and, I have no doubt that they know each team's system/prospects much better than Hendry or other GMs ever did or will. This F.O. isn't going to come to the bargaining table unprepared in any way.

    I really have to question how outrageous the asking price for Dempster is if the Braves, Nationals and Cards are still in on him. As shrewd as the Braves F.O. is, they would have dropped out quickly if the price was too unexpectedly high. I don't see any of those teams sticking with it if they felt that the F.O. was asking for the moon. I think that the Dodgers are just being unrealistic.

  • In reply to supercapo:

    I think they'll regret it too. Dempster is a guy that would have fit into that clubhouse seamlessly and gave them some great innings down the stretch, but it appears they'd rather hang on to their top prospects...none of whom are can't miss guys. Most are likely to miss, in fact.

  • The new CBA sucks!!! Teams may just be unwilling to trade their top prospects when they are no longer able to be compensated with draft picks.

  • In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    It really hurt the more creative teams and the ones who put value in draft picks, scouting, and player development.

  • I wonder how much harder these negotiations are just because of Theo and Jed's reputations. It almost seems like negotiations are like divorce proceedings. If Theo & Jed want the dog, she (other GM) wants to keep the dog just because Theo & Jed covet it....only with players. Their reputations + them wanting a player = teams over-valuing their prospects just because the "brain trust" wants them.

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    Maybe, but baseball people are pretty confident in their own abilities and judgments. I'd say it's more likely that Theo/Jed picked a player whom the Dodgers already liked a lot. If the Cubs FO picked a guy they didn't like as much, they'd probably trade him.

  • I continue to say, make them sweat. Take a look at the wild card standings in the AL this morning. You have 8 teams within 3 games of the playoffs. And look at the 4th and 5th starters on some of these teams. NL is only slightly less jammed up.
    If you can't get players that logically project to be quality major league players, it makes no sense to just give assets away. Worst case scenario is you have Ryan(a great leader and teammate for the young guys) for next year, or you get a draft pick in the 30's area. Patience boys.

  • Agreed. Don't make it easy for them. They certainly aren't making it easy on the Cubs. Both teams trying to get best deal possible here.

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    I go back to the deadline 2 years ago when Hendry gave up Lilly and Theriot for DeWitt and 2 pieces of shite...Ned the Toupe then traded one of his top pitching prospects to the Pirates immediately after that deal for rental Octavio Dotel who left rigth afte rthe season, that pitcher for the Pirates was an allstar this season if i'm not mistaken... I doubt Ned's afraid to get burnt, I just think he's got in in for the Cubs personally, that's just me

  • In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    Exactly...they got nothing. It didn't help the team. Prospects never were close, never even broke the Cubs top 10 list. It was basically a waste of time and MLB talent. I don't want to see that happen again.

  • I can understand dragging this out if Demp is weighing an additional 2 years in LA. From a human perspective, keeping baseball out of it, it's one thing to take a 3 month gig out West and being away from your family, etc. But this becomes a lifestyle altering decision now. Nothing to jump into.

  • In reply to Ratmoss:

    Agreed.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Is the potential deal far enough along that Ryan is now actually considering an extension? or are they just saying that is what it would cost?

  • In reply to supercapo:

    You'd have to agree on players before you allow that sort of negotiating window. I don't believe they've gotten that far.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I have to respectably disagree on that point. At demps age, I could see him just as likely holding it up for them 2 years from a family perspective.

  • If the Cubs actually pull off a deal where they get 1 or 2 of the Dodgers top pitchers because Dempster was able to work out an extension, Dempster will immediately become one of my all time favorite Cubs. He doesn't have to do any of this! What a class act.

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    In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    Agreed..a class act all the way thru!!! I don't buy that they're out on demp either because they've drooled over him for months already and Kemp and Lilly have both come out on his behalf saying they'd welcome him with open arms...I still think Colletti's a tool

  • In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    Colletti just greatly overvalues his prospects.

  • In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    That would be a selfless act, and it wouldn't surprise me if he did that.

  • Let's not forget; 40 is the new 30:<). I think Ryan has a few years left as a crafty veteran. As I stated previously, I think ultimately he wants that 2 years vs. having to deal with all this again in October. But being the crafty vet he is, I could see a caveat there which follows the thinking of doing what may be in the Cubs best interest. Wanting only a 1 year deal so he can resign here and finish his career with a chance to be a part of the 2014 and'15 run.

  • Hey John, what ever happened to Evan Crawford? He hurt? Has no stats on Baseball Reference this year..

  • Is Garza hurt?!?

  • What is the injury to garza? Is it serious?

  • Another cubbie occurrence! This stuff can only happen to my beloved cubs! Their biggest trade chip gets hurt, hopefully nothing serious!

  • Doesn't sound serious. Forearm cramping. I'm praying right now!!!!

  • I've read in several places that demps value is diminishing And everytime they reject and offer it only gets worse. Is this true???

  • I see a Cub fans worst nightmare.

  • Matt Garza has been diagnosed with right triceps cramps after precautionary X-rays came up negative.
    He's currently being listed as day-to-day, but the Cubs should know more after reevaluating the right-hander on Sunday. Interested teams looking to acquire Garza via trade will likely proceed with caution, but there is still a strong chance he gets moved before the July 31 trade deadline. He threw three scoreless innings Saturday against the Cardinals before making his early exit.
    Source: Carrie Muskat on Twitter

  • MLBTR:

    "The Dodgers don't want to surrender prospects for a rental and are "very unlikely" to acquire Ryan Dempster, but Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago reports that they have shifted their focus to Matt Garza. "

    Demp to LA was iffy enough.

    Do the Dodgers really think they have enough to get Garza?

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    IS Zach Lee who we really want? Look at his stats this year. 2-5 5.53 ERA this year in A+ and AA combined. Only averaging 4.45 innings per start...

  • In reply to Eric Wahrman:

    I think he's overrated personally. I wasn't impressed with him when I saw him pitch and he actually didn't do badly as far as numbers.

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