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Cubs Den Rumor Thread 7/16 Update: Red Sox want Dempster, but wary of Theo's knowledge of system

Cubs Den Rumor Thread 7/16 Update: Red Sox want Dempster, but wary of Theo's knowledge of system

As you all know, I was out of town yesterday so I'm trying to catch up a bit.  Here's a couple of nuggets to get the rumor mill fired up today....

  • 5:00 PM: Buster Olney tweets that the Red Sox are aggressively pursuing Ryan Dempster but that one of the hurdles is Theo Epstein's knowledge of the Red Sox system.  As to why the Red Sox would be afraid, it's probably because Theo has more information on their organization than they're used to dealing with.  When it comes to their own players, especially as you go down the organizational chain, teams usually have a significant information advantage over the team with which they are trying to make a deal.  That advantage does not exist for the Red Sox in this situation or at least that gap is narrowed substantially.   Sure, teams can scout aggressively for a few weeks, but that doesn't make up for the day-to-day, year to year knowledge an organization has of it's own players.
  • 1:24 PM: Rosenthal again, this time saying that Justin Upton has the Cubs on his no-trade list.  The Yankees, Red Sox, and Indians are also on the list, so the Cubs are in pretty good company.  Rosenthal doesn't think that's necessarily a deterrent, however.  It's no coincidence that 3 of the teams are among the biggest markets in baseball.  Said Rosenthal, "Often, players include high-revenue teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs in no-trade protection, thinking that those organizations are better positioned to offer financial inducements in an effort to convince the player to waive the clause."
  • 10:50 AM: Ken Rosenthal writes that Ryan Dempster will consider going to any team that is a contender and that the Cubs will eat most of his salary in order to obtain better prospects.  Rosenthal also hears that the Cubs were looking for a Gio-Gonzalez type package last offseason for Matt Garza.
  • 9:46 AM: Jon Morosi reports that speculation about the Blue Jays interest in Matt Garza won't stop - nor should it.  The Jays are said to be enamored with Garza's AL East experience and had two scouts on hand to watch him dominate the Diamondbacks yesterday.  We have also speculated here that GM Alex Anthopoulos is likely also interested in having a player that he can keep for 2013, where they could be even more competitive once they get some players healthy.  And we've also talked about how much Anthopoulos values the draft, so there is a lot of appeal in that they can also net a comp pick for Garza if he doesn't re-sign with them.  Morosi also reiterates what everyone has been saying, that the Dodgers and Tigers are the most serious suitors for Ryan Dempster -- and adds that both teams could turn their attention to Garza once Dempster is traded.
  • 9:15 AM: Kevin Goldstein and Mike Ferrin discussed the possibility of trading for a draft pick yesterday (XM radio, h/t Wickit Cub).  Under the new CBA, six teams will be awarded "competitive balance"  draft picks, which would occur after the first round (and after the supplemental first round picks). The teams eligible for the first lottery are the Diamondbacks, Orioles, Indians, Royals, A’s, Pirates, Padres, Rays, Reds, Rockies, Marlins, Brewers and Cardinals.  Of those teams, the Rays, Diamondbacks, Orioles, Indians, Pirates, and Cardinals are potential buyers.  It may be a creative way for a team to get a deal done if the teams can't agree on a secondary prospect.  I would expect that if this were to happen, the deal for someone like Dempster would be for at least a prospect plus the draft pick.  That lottery will be held today and we'll have more details when we have the results.
  • 9:01 AM: David Kaplan tweeted yesterday that Ryan Dempster will be traded before his next start.  Just an educated guess here but it would seem the Cubs have an offer or two on the table that they already like.  There has been a lot of competition for Dempster. Bruce Levine reported on Saturday that there were 10 teams bidding for him, so it's likely that the Cubs got some pretty nice bids here.   Remember that the Cubs can theoretically recoup a comp pick of they keep Dempster and offer (and he turns down) a qualifying deal (based on 2011 salaries, that would be around $12M).  I'm not saying that it's going to happen, but it probably means the Cubs are getting some quality in return that probably exceeds the value of that potential comp pick. Kap also said that the White Sox will not be the team that acquires Dempster, which makes sense given the state of their farm system.

Filed under: Rumors/Speculation

Tags: Ryan Dempster, trade

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  • Interesting on the draft pick trading, how much value do you think teams will put on the ability to trade for draft picks? Reserve type MLB player/ mid level prospect valuable,less/more than that? Would seem to me acquiring an upper round pick along with the slot money could be pretty valuable to certain clubs(like the cubs)

    10 teams in on demp is amazing to me, never would have thought that at the start of the year, figured he would have value but wow. more power to him for staying focused and pitching out of his mind, his performance could really help our future, big thanks Ryan

  • In reply to Andrew13:

    Teams probably have a system where they have a set value for draft picks and like you say, it's probably set pretty high for the teams that value draft picks more like the Cubs.

    The extra pool money is a good point.

  • A lot of times I think what the writers say is just a bunch of guesses. It seems that they are trying to milk as much as possible out of this trade time to get readers to check in on their pages and follow their tweets. It was supposed to be his last start about a month ago. That being said, I'm probably the sucker for continuing to check for new developments lol.

  • In reply to Andrew:

    I'm sure that's the case sometimes, but we're hearing the same thing on Dempster so we'll post that shortly.

    Dempster was reportedly close to being traded but the injury was a setback. He'll be traded.

  • I don't really understand the competitive balance draft picks. Why are the Cubs not eligible with their record? Do they just go to small market teams? How are the 6 teams determined out or the 13? Can the Cubs become one next year? Can only that round's picks be dealt? I never heard anything about this before, a lot of questions.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    So much stuff on the CBA that many of us are still learning it.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Sorry, here's the answer on the Cubs...

    The lottery will be held among baseball’s 10 smallest-market teams and 10 lowest-revenue teams. There's a secondary lottery in which the "losing" teams have a chance to get picks after the 2nd round.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Ahh, I see. Thanks John & SFToby

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    The Competitive Balance Lottery is Wednesday, not today.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/draft-notes-giolito-gausman-mets-giants-rangers.html

    (the last bullet point)

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    In reply to Hack Attack:

    MLB.com still shows it as today on their important dates schedule. Has anyone heard anything about it?

  • In reply to Neifiisgreat:

    Callis tweeted it's Wednesday.

    http://twitter.com/jimcallisBA/status/225010464445300736

    Mayo too.

    https://twitter.com/JonathanMayoB3/status/224963358791712768

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    I believe they go to the smallest market teams, whether or not they've been competitive. Thats how the Cards get a pick

  • would be a huge risk and mistake for a trade not to happen before Demps next start . I think they will accept an offer for him in next day or two. Garza will be gone if a package includes at least 2 impact prospects . A team out there will give it , i sure would like to see the Bakers , Johnsons and Sotos ect moved too before the deadline . LaHair Only if He garners a good prospect or two .

  • In reply to Bryan Craven:

    I think Baker and Johnson are almost certain to be traded. They're not going to bring back a ton, but they do have some value as guys off the bench and both will be FAs after the year. Cubs likely don't plan on re-signing either as they continue to rebuild.

  • This should get very interesting . I still think Dempster goes to either Detroit of LA...I'm leaning towards Detroit right now. I LOVE the fact that Toronto has the hots for Garza ,that only be good for the Cubs.

  • In reply to Steve Flores:

    Agreed, good to see Toronto very interested in Garza they have exactly what the Cubs need right now as far as pitchers.

  • If both pitchers are traded for pitching prospects not ready for the
    majors who do they bring up from AAA. If after all the trades they
    need infield and outfield help, who from AAA do they bring up to
    start.

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    Tough question E. Nobody is really performing well down there so it may default to Volstad again, maybe Coleman, maybe Rusin. Maybe they'll surprise us with someone like Raley, who has been outperforming them all at AAA.

  • Is it unrealistic to think that if Dempster is traded to the Tigers, that Castellanos would be coming back? His name has been mentioned a lot with Garza, but could they get a prospect rated that high for Dempster?

  • In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    no way, especially not for a half season rental guy like demp.

  • In reply to jshmoran:

    I guess I'm asking as 10 teams are interested, Dempster is piching like a stud and it is clearly a sellers market right now. I'm starting to feel like we might be pleasently surpised in what we get in return.

  • In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    im with you, i think we might get a little bit better of a deal than we have previously anticipated, but the tigers giving up castellanos doesnt make any sense. the dodgers, for example, have been reluctant to give up zach lee who is there top prospect, and most people dont expect us to get zach lee in return for demp. i think even if the dodgers offered us lee and chris reed (which would be an outstanding return) i dont think it would push detroit to give up castellanos, they really value him, as they should.

  • In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    For Dempster, no but he's probably in play for Garza. I think it's unlikely, though.

  • "given the state of their farm system"

    glad someone in the media finally put aside their fear of Kenny Williams and said that. Widely thought of around baseball to be one of the worst if not the worst farm system. I realize national media doesn't pay attention and they will see the Sox as buyers because they are in first. But anyone local should know that the Sox can't be buyers because they have NOTHING to buy with.

  • In reply to Mikethoms:

    Agreed. Sox just don't have any ammunition, but KW has shown to be pretty bold in the past so I wouldn't put it past him to do something, even if it's high risk to the current team.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    The White Sox do have some intriguing arms at the lower levels.

  • In reply to Jive Wired:

    Not nearly as intriguing as other team's young arms, though.

  • Great site, especially liking the daily minor league recaps. Well done. I have gone back and forth alot on Garza, as I really like the way he pitches aggressively and attacks hitters. In a perfect Cubs' world, he is your #2 starter going forward when the team is again attempting to contend.

    At this point I am inclined to keep him in the rotation plans, and try and get that extension done. Considering that they gave up Archer and Hak Ju Lee (along with Guyer, Fuld, and Chirinos), who are both looking like they will pan out as "impact guys," to the Rays they would need to be blown away with an offer for it to make any sense to move him now.

    Last point, assuming that Ricketts ponies up the 100 mil or so it takes to sign a #1 starter these days, Garza, Samardz, Wood (add possibly a younger pitcher from a forthcoming trade) isn't too bad when you look at a future rotation.

  • In reply to JC 2012:

    Thanks JC. I think there is a chance that Garza does not get moved for that reason -- that the Cubs need to be blown away with an offer -- and by that I mean a deal in which they acquire significant surplus overall value.

    Garza is amenable to signing a deal, so if the Cubs don't get that great offer, they may well try and keep him.

  • okay guys tell me if this trade makes sense.

    Castro and another prospect for Justion Upton

    Cubs-get a power hitting corner outfielder that is only 24. Also, the cubs can move Barney to SS(until Baez is ready) and Cardenas to second base.
    Lineup
    RF-Dejesus
    2B-Cardenas
    1B- Rizzo
    CF- Upton
    LF- Alfonso( until Bjax pushings Upton to RF or LF)
    C- Soto( until he is traded)
    3B- Vlbuena
    SS- Barney
    P

  • In reply to Paris:

    I like Castro better than Upton. Castro is finally playing good defense, plays the more valuable position, hits for a much higher avg and the Cubs have him locked up longer than Upton. He has a much better contract. If Upton and Castro were to get swapped, the D-Backs would need to be adding the prospects.

  • In reply to Ibleedcubbieblue:

    I think Upton has a higher ceiling than Castro, but Castro is probably safer than Upton. And the positional value of a SS is higher than a RF.

    Plus the Cubs are on Upton's No Trade List, so the Cubs would probably have to sign him to an even longer extension to get him to waive it. No thank you.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    As John has pointed out in the past, Castro has been put into a tough position as he has been forced to learn at the Major League level. The problem is that Cubs fans sees his mistakes and are quick to criticize. Let's not forget he's only 22 years old. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a player like Justin Upton, but I can name plenty of outfielders (McCutchen, Braun, Cargo) in just the National League who are as good and probably better. I struggle to find a shortstop (It was a joke that Furcal was the starting SS in the All Star game) as good as Castro. I think Castro's image was really hurt this year by the one play where he forgot the number of outs... if you can get past that, you see he has improved dramatically in the field and at his age, he still has an extremely high ceiling.

  • In reply to Paris:

    Upton can't play CF. At any rate, I don't see the Cubs entertaining that possibility. A 22 year old SS making near the league minimum and actually has a higher WAR than Upton this year. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them. I'm sure the Cubs would like to have a player like Upton in RF, but not at that price.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Hey John, Is there any way that Upton could be included in a 3-way deal to the Cubs for Garza? What else would the Cubs have to throw in? more Specs?

  • Do you know when will Johnson and Underwood pitch an inning or two

  • If Vogelbach makes it to the bigs by that time i think the nl might have a use for the dh and he will be usefull for the cubs

  • Do you Vogelbach as a Cub in the future or is their a possibility of a trade to an AL team considering DH? Rizzo is future 1B but Vogelbach is tearing it up in the minors if Cubs could have a lineup with Castro Baez Jackson Rizzo Vogelbach and Soler included I like their odds at having a lot of winning seasons

  • In reply to Chicago Cubs Fan 24:

    Way too early to think about that on Vogelbach. He is hitting, but it's at the lowest level of minor league baseball. If he's still tearing it up in AA in 2-3 years, then the Cubs will have to cross that bridge at that time.

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    If we trade johnson, dejesus.. Etc do we call up Jackson or who do we look to next??

  • In reply to Colman Conneely:

    Sappelt can possibly replace Johnson as an extra outfielder. Hitting just .250 overall but well over .300 with some power against lefties. I don't think DeJesus gets traded, but if he does, they may just go with Campana/Mather for a while again.

  • do you guys think dempster might be traded today? and what do you guys think we will get for him alone?

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    There's a chance. I do think he gets traded before his next start. I'm guessing two very good arms but not an elite prospect.

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    Probably not today though it's very soon.

  • john the cardinals have been willing to trade Shelby Miller and the Yankees trading on or both Killer B's what would be a better trade for garza

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    I'd take Miller.

  • fb_avatar

    With the injury to Dillon Gee, and the Mets have two good pitching prospects in Wheeler and Harvey, what are the chances the Cubs can trade Dempster/Garza to the Mets for one or both of these guys? Are the Mets a good potential suitor for the Cubs in a trade?

  • In reply to Gabe Hauari:

    Gabe I think the Mets would be a good suitor if they were willing to trade those guys, but I believe they are just going to call-up Harvey rather than trade him. Wheeler probably not available.

  • Off topic but i ran across this scouting report on Baez that got published earlier today, nothing we dont know (crazy bat speed,huge ceiling offensively) but always good to see an extremely positive consensus developing, he is certainly shooting up the prospect lists

    http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/07/16/scouting-report-javier-baez-ss/

    Thought you guys may enjoy it.

  • Is there any chance that Dempster might negotiate an extension before a trade? It would open up more possibilities for good prospects and if you combine him with LaHair it should really bring impact players.

  • In reply to pricewriter:

    I don't think so, pricewriter.

  • do you guys think dmepster can get a top 100 prospect by himself?

  • do you guys think that brian lahir and a dempster trade could bring us big time prospects? or would a garza lahair trade be better benefit cubs?

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    I think LaHair would upgrade the package of prospects, but I don't think it'd be a huge leap.

  • The sooner Dempster is traded and other pitchers come off the
    market, the better for trading Garza. Also the better for my heart.

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    LOL!

  • Apparently the Rays are contemplating makings Shields available after evaluating their chances for contending after the next series or two.....

    Not to be impatient, but this seems like it could hurt Garza's trade value.....

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    Rays are perpetually building, it seems.

    The thing is, the other team has some control in this situation. They may choose to wait to make a deal or see who else becomes available. I think if the Cubs felt they had the kind of deal they wanted, they'd probably have made it by now. Both teams trying to get the best deal they can so they may wait it out.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Definitely. Just saying, if Shields becomes an alternative to Garza.....and even if he doesn't, it could hurt the Cubs. If teams hold off, even from a Dempster deal to see if Shields will be made available.

    John, if the Cubs were looking for a Gio trade last year, how much lesser is what they're looking for this year?

    The A's ended up adding 4 players who are now considered their #2, 4, 7 & 10 top rated prospects, of course, so are the cubs only looking at 3/4 ths of that? 1/2?

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    It's been said they are looking more for a Ubaldo Jimenez deal: two of team's top SP prospects plus a 3rd top 10 guy.

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    Would definitely hurt the Cubs. Shields has many of the same attributes as Garza.

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    In reply to cubbie steve:

    The Cubs should kick the tires on TB's asking price for Shields. Maybe we could work a 3 team trade with Shields going somewhere else and LaHair going to TB if they are interested in him. I read TB also wants a catcher, but I doubt Geo has much interest/value right now.

    If we do trade LaHair I would like to see him go to a team with a good opportunity for him, and TB looks like one of the best matches.

  • In reply to Just Win:

    Guys stop asking about getting anyone who isn't young and very cheap, it is not going to happen IMHO.

  • If this is true, it ruins a lot of the message board trades....

    Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale
    The #Tigers are telling teams_at least right now_that prized 3B prospect Nick Castellanos is unavailable.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    Nightengale isn't always the most accurate guy but I'd buy this one. I don't think they'll trade Castellanos either.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I'm sure they'd like to avoid moving him if at all possible, but it definitely limits the quality of any pieces they can acquire. The move to RF makes me wonder if they have thoughts of bringing him up this season...

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    I think they may settle for a lesser pitcher in the end.

    It'd be a mistake for them to call him up in my opinion. Too soon.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    If he (Castellanos) is not in any trade for the Cubs then the Tigers should look elsewhere. Maybe I am the only one, but I am not wild about Turner. Too many writers/scouts say mid rotation starter at best now. I would prefer younger arms with more upside and the Tigers don't seem to have that.

  • john the cubs said they put paul maholm on the trading block but why would we trade a pitcher that took less so he can come and play as a cub just to be traded away?

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    If they can get value for any veteran they have to consider it. Maholm probably won't be around when the Cubs are (hopefully) ready to be yearly contenders.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    yeah but i think we should keep him so the next few years we will have a vet in the rotation

  • why would nick castellanos would be untouchable if the tigers have a star first base a a third basemen

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    He is a very valuable chip or card in an expensive game.

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    In reply to kingpro98:

    probably because all signs point to him being an outfielder long term because he wont be able to stick at third....and even if he could, its likely one of Fielder or Cabrera will need to move over to the DH spot in the next few years, both will decline defensively at their positions.

  • i hear that teams were pushing for soto last year what were we going to get if we did trade him?

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    In reply to kingpro98:

    i hear that teams were pushing for soto last year what were we going to get if we did trade him?

    ---
    If Jim Hendry were the one making the deal? Probably about as much as we could get for him right now, which is not much.

    I'm a big Geo fan, but it often seems like he's not fully committed to staying in shape and being the best player he can be. Talent-wise he should be one of the best hitting catchers in baseball every year, but he's so inconsistent. This year he looks completely lost at the plate.

  • I’d still rather have the Cubs deal with a different team…

    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
    Source: The Red Sox are aggressive in the pursuit of Ryan Dempster. Cubs going through their process on the right-hander.

    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
    One of the big hurdles in the Cubs/Red Sox talks, of course, is that Theo Epstein knows their farm system very well.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    I saw those too. Interesting development.

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    In reply to North Side Irish:

    Of The Red Sox prospects - Cecchini is someone Epstein loves, and he could be available because Boston's top 3 prospects all project to play 3B, though Boegarts could play OF. But Middlebrooks is their 3B now and for the future. As far as pitchers, they'd never trade Barnes, but maybe Ranaudo, though his peripherals have gone steadily downhill since being drafted and with a significant drop in velo as well. They do have a stockpile of arms at the Single A level. Not sure if there is a fit here. One thing that may happen is a three team deal. Boston is very deep in the OF with Crawford and Ellsbury back.

  • In reply to Jive Wired:

    Cecchini...hmmm. Interesting guy. I like that idea.

  • I can only imagine the reaction in Boston to whatever the Red Sox might give up for Dempster.

  • Haha! I'd like to see it too.

  • Just read another rumor that the Dempster sweepstakes is down to the Yankees and the Braves and a deal will be done by this time tomorrow.

  • Where is that one from?

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I read it online. That commenter said he heard it on New York Sports radio.

  • if you could post the URL we would all be grateful for it

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    It was in a reply to an article about Dempster at MLB Trade Rumors.

  • I read in a Nightengale piece at USA Today that Dempster said he be more than willing to re-sign with the Cubs during the off season.

  • In reply to SFToby:

    That would be great. That never seems to happen, though. I think whoever signs him is going to push very hard to extend him.

  • In reply to SFToby:

    Great guy, don't bring back. Want 2013 team as young as
    possible.

  • Joey Votto's going to miss 3-4 weeks. I wonder if the Reds might call about LaHair?

  • I was thinking the same thing. I'd say certainly if it were a couple weeks longer, but LaHair cheap and can move to OF afterward.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I think they want to go all out, if possible, to win this year.

  • So the Red Sox want to get Dempster for free or garbage but can't because Theo knows better? I bet they wish Hendry was still here....

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    It'd be much easier to deal with Hendry on this!

  • John, this is my first year on Cubs Den. Just curios, what do you write about in the offseason?

  • In reply to drew:

    Last year was easy because there was the whole Theo Epstein saga, which went right into the winter meetings, Dale Sveum and then it wasn't too long until spring training.

    There's always something going on. I expect some changes, there's the rule 5, prospect lists. I probably won't write 2-3 articles a day, though :)

  • In reply to drew:

    Drew, John won't admit it but in the offseason he also writes elderly women's erotica books.

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    In reply to Tom Loxas:

    Granny Does Dallas was awesome.

  • In reply to Tom Loxas:

    50 shades of gray hair

  • In reply to Tom Loxas:

    LOL...you guys are depraved.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    No John, Scotland is Depraved.

    http://youtu.be/NMlOqwhGXos

  • Also, at what level do you think they move Baez to 3rd base?

  • In reply to drew:

    They don't really have to do it until the upper levels, maybe not even until AAA. Everyone knew Lake would wind up at 3rd and he played SS all the way until midway through this AA season.

  • Do you think Theo/Jed have the ??? to make tough deals for
    the long term future of the Cubs. Rebuild now as much as
    possible. Garza is the key.

  • man o man i love cubs den i love this how they keep updating it and i love how john reply to us and gives us info. Keep up the good work

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    Thanks King, and I wish I could also be on the boards more than time allows :(

  • Not related to the topic, but I'm at Kauffman Stadium tonight watching Jonathan Sanchez implode against the Mariners. Mike Brumley is Seattle's first base coach. You think he and Paul Noche get together for beers and swapping stories about the summer of 1987? I always kind of thought it was a travesty for the Cubs to give Mark Grace his jersey number...

  • In reply to TheSinisterUrge:

    Ha! Boy those names are a blast from the past. I'd completely forgotten about them. Great memory!

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I watched an awful lot of baseball growing up. I think I *might* have missed 5 games that whole, wretched season.

  • John,

    Great stuff, as always. Perhaps the Red Sox fear Theo's knowledge of their system similar to Dallas Green's knowledge of the Phillies system, when he engineered a trade that included a "throw in" named Ryne Sandberg. I think that worked out o.k. for the Cubs, as I recall

  • In reply to AZBOB:

    Exactly. Sandberg was more of a sleeper prospect than a can't miss guy.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    John, he was..didn't Dallas Green want Luis Aguyao first and was refused?

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    John, up until today, Garza's name has been associated with the Red Sox more often than Dempster's. Do you think that has anything to do with the asking price? I've always thought the Red Sox could never get Garza from the Cubs without including Matt Barnes, and because of that, they've turned to Dempster.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    That sounds plausible. I think they've always had some interest in Dempster but today's stuff made it seem like it was more than we were led to believe.

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    John, we've talked in other threads about pairing other players with Dempster and Garza in order to get more value back. Is there anything else besides Dempster that Boston might want from the Cubs?

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    They were interested in Baker last year. Maybe a reliever like Camp?

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    Since we're talking about Dempster to the Red Sox I'll throw some names out there. Dempster to the Red Sox for Brandon Workman, Henry Owens and Garin Cecchini.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    That's a pretty heavy haul for renting a player for 9 weeks. They may get one of those players for Dempster but not all three.

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    Since I don't think we could get Barnes for Dempster, one guy I can see the Cubs going after is LHP Drake Britton. Injury history, some mediocre numbers, but lots of upside. Not someone to be too excited about, but I think it's more realistic.

  • In reply to João Lucas:

    Perhaps as a secondary player. I hope they can do better than that as a primary piece. Does have some talent if he can stay healthy.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Sure, we'd definitely get more than just Britton, I was just think about pitching prospects. I don't know if the Cubs could get a better pitcher than him for Dempster only. The main piece would have to be a position player, or we'd have to part with someone else besides Dempster. Anyway, I'm just taking a shot in the dark here...

  • Jose Bautista leaves the Blue Jays game with a wrist injury. Hopefully that doesn't make them re-think going for it and going after Garza.

    Also, Anthony Gose, their top OF prospect, was pulled from his game tonight. Have to think it's to replace Bautista, but I guess there's a possibility he's involved in a trade.

  • In reply to TulaneCubs:

    I hope so too. As for Gose, he's a fun player so I hope he gets the call.

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    Several different sources saying the Dodgers, Red Sox and Tigers all have offers on the table for Dempster.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    If true, we'll probably see a deal soon.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    From your lips to God's ears John... If the BoSox are in this, don't be surprised to have the Yankees get in it, just to piss them off

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    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Hopefully the competition will land the Cubs an extra prospect!!!! I'm ready for a deal to go down, the Cubs need Demp moved so they can get Garza moved over the next two weeks

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    I hope the Braves do not end up getting any deal done with us. I don't think they're a good fit.

  • You may have just set a record for number of comments in one post. Hot Stove Johnny is muy popular.

  • The Red Sox pursuit of Ryan Dempster has as much chance of succeeding as my pursuit of Kate Upton does.

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    In reply to felzz:

    Maybe not, but if their presence helps increase the price the Cubs get on Demp, I'm all for it

  • In reply to felzz:

    I spent alot of time around scouts today. I think you may have a shot at Kate if that is comparison your going to use.

  • Awesome!!!!!!! I'll just have to kick Verlander out of the room for awhile.

    Wouldn't Demp block a trade to the Red Sox. They're on the fringes of the playoff race. Not exactly what I'd call a "contender"/ Bullpen was Cub-like for most of the season. Defense is littered with 4th and 5th outfielders. ( Although Crawford did return today and Elsbury will be back eventually.) I don't know. My guess is Demp will want to stay in the NL and eventually LA ponies up whatever it is that Theo/Jed/Pi/Epsilom are wanting.....

  • Saw this on MLB Trade Rumors:

    "....ESPN's Jayson Stark hears from other teams that Atlanta is only interested in acquiring top-of-the-rotation pitchers at the deadline (Twitter link).

    As Stark notes, that contradicts reports that link the Braves to names like Francisco Liriano and Jason Vargas. Atlanta has been linked to Zack Greinke, but GM Frank Wren will reportedly only part with his prized young pitching prospects if he's able to extend Greinke."

    How many top of the rotation options are there? I can't imagine Atlanta as a serious partner for a Garza trade, but it doesn't seem that there are that many other top f the rotation starters.

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    Any chance at all boston would include Daniel Bard in a Dempster deal? Would any of you take that? I know I would.....He seems like a guy who just needs a change of scenery and I think Bosio could help him out. Ace potential but if he doesnt pan out in the rotation future closer candidate. What do you guys think?

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    Hope Bautista going down doesn't affect Toronto's buying desire...

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    Dempster and Garza both fit a need for the Red Sox and Yankees. The problem is going the other way. The Red Sox and Yankees don't necessarily match up with the Cubs needs. This is particularly true of the Yankees.

    Between injuries and guys that just haven't performed up to expectations, the Yankees' system might be as barren of pitching as the Cubs' system. Of the pitchers they have that are healthy and performing well, they're all back end of the rotation types, and the Cubs have enough of those.

    The Red Sox have pitching prospects with high upsides, though not near as many of them as the Blue Jays, but like the Blue Jays, none of them are near major league ready.

    Both systems have a plethora of hitting prospects which would interest the Cubs. The question is what is the goal of trading Garza and Dempster. It's like the draft. You have to balance best available versus need.

    There isn't a single pitcher in the Yankees system I'd want as the center piece of any deal, and the Red Sox would be limited as to what they could give the you without stripping down their system, which they might not be inclined to do. The Red Sox have the goods to put together a combination of hitting and pitching prospects to get a deal done. The Yankees can get a deal done, but they only have hitters to offer the Cubs.

    You also have to think about how important it may or may not be to the Cubs to get back prospects that are or are close to major league ready.

    Losing Garza and Dempster is going to leave holes to fill, not just for the rest of this season, but also for next season. For that reason alone, if your focus is mostly pitching, Boston, Toronto and most certainly the Yankees are not real great fits, but if major league readiness is a concern, Atlanta, Detroit and the Dodgers are much better fits.

    There are so many different scenarios under which all this could play out. The next two weeks is going to be a hell of a ride.

  • Yesterday's injury news could open (or close) a lot of trade interest. 1) Votto is out for maybe 4 weeks. Do the Reds look for a power bat (LaHair?) or do they think that their pitching will carry them? 2) The Pirates may choose to stand pat and take advantage of the Reds damaged offense and the Cards struggles (yay), or they may jump on the chance to pull away in the Central with a big deal for a bat or an arm. If it's the latter, do they pull the plug on Cole or Taillon? I sure would like Taillon in blue. 3) Bautista's injury sounds serious--if he's out for a while, the Jays may pull back on this year. That would affect the pursuit of Garza and close the door on their prospects coming here. Ouch. 4) Big Papi hurt his Achilles tendon late last night. Will that affect the Red Sox needs? p.s. I hope we don't pursue Lavarnaway or Sweeney. We'd not be getting any longterm improvement over the guys we have now.
    What a difference a day makes.

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    John, what's with Castellanos playing RF? Have the Tigers given up on him as a 3B?

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    He's not a particularly good 3B, some have doubts as to whether he can stick there, but it does seem early to give up on him.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I wonder if the FO's supposed desire for a 3b will push them towards Boston and Cecchini. He still needs to get his footwork right, but the range and the arm appear to be there from all the reports, and that bat is coming along nicely. I wouldn't be shocked to find out the FO were still talking to Texas.

    BTW, Brett Jackson now leads the PCL in triples.

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    In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    Michael, from a totally biased point of view, i'd have no trouble (being a proud Italian/American) to have Rizzo and Cecchini manning the corners over the next decade...Texas was VERY HOT over Garza for over 2 years..If they lost out on Darvish, they probably would have aquired him over the winter and I find it strange they would not be seeking him out now with their injuries...They could get us some prospects right up there with Toronto for sure

  • Tiger blogs say that they're satisfied with Batista's defense at third (huh??) so they are training him as an outfielder--right field, I think. He hasn't played OF since freshman year in HS (which wasn't THAT long ago). Maybe they just want his bat somewhere in the future.

  • In reply to StillMissKennyHubbs:

    well if he stays at third base he wouldnt play because of Cabrera

  • In reply to kingpro98:

    Sorry I meant Cabrera

  • In reply to StillMissKennyHubbs:

    Satisfied? Sounds like a bit of home town optimism on Casetellanos (I assume that's who you were referring to). That's not the general word. He still has a chance to stick at 3B, but satisfied isn't a word I would use.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Leyland said they are satisfied with Cabrera's d. Go figure. So they have been playing Castellanos in the OF for the last five games or so.

  • Okay...new thread up! Thanks for keeping the conversation flowing everyone!

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