Cubs Den Rumor Thread 7/14: Two offers on the table for Demp?

Cubs Den Rumor Thread 7/14: Two offers on the table for Demp?

Let's fire up the rumor mill again.  You guys seemed to like it so we'll try and do this until the deadline.  In case you missed it, I altered the rumors drawing to look a bit more like Tom and me :)

  • 9:47 PM: Bruce Levine reports that there are 10 teams interested in  Ryan Dempster, including the White Sox.  Other teams include the Dodgers, Yankees, Tigers, Indians, and Braves. One American League scout said, "You see a guy like that struggle with command and pace, (but) at the same time get all the important outs. Dempster makes it easy for me to call my GM and say, 'Get this guy now because he has such a great sense of how to get the job done (and) he will help you win each time he goes out there.'"
  • 4:27 PM: Not directly related to the Cubs but the Braves got their SS.  There was some speculation that Darwin Barney may have interested them, and he probably would have, but the cost would be prohibitive considering they just need a stopgap.  The SS they acquired was Paul Janish, a plus defender with a light bat.  In exchange, the Reds received pitcher Todd Redmond.  Redmond is a 27 year old minor league veteran but he's put up good numbers and probably will get a shot with the Reds at some point.
  • 2:32 PM: Jon Heyman of CBS Sports writes that despite Alfonso Soriano's resurgence, there is little interest in the 36 year outfielder.  As you might expect, it has more to do with his contract than his production.  "They could trade him if they paid ($44 million of the $46 million) on his contract,''one rival GM surmised.  My opinion on this is that if you're going to pay nearly his entire salary, and he's not blocking a prospect, then what's the point?  They still won't get a great return for a 36 year old DH.  As long as he's producing and teams want the Cubs to give him away and foot the bill, they may as well keep letting him produce here in Chicago.  One scout, however, speculates that the Rays might be a good fit.  Writes Heyman, "One scout suggested the Tampa Bay Rays who have struggled offensively this year. The hitter the Rays really need is recovering star, Evan Longoria, everyone agrees. But Soriano, who has 45 RBI to go with a .270 atting average, might help too. The Rays aren't exactly flush with cash, of course, but Chicago isn't expected to be unreasonable."
  • 1:53 PM: Ofman reminds us in a tweet that technically, Ryan Dempster still has to approve a deal.  LA is his preferred destination because of his friendship with Ted Lilly.  Still, Dempster has said that he will go if it helps the team, so I think he'll go to Detroit if they made the better offer.
  • 1:20 PM: Padilla has more on Jed Hoyer and trade talk.  “Yeah, we’ve fielded quite a few [calls],” Hoyer said Saturday. “A lot of teams check in with everybody so you get a lot of those. You’ll talk to every GM just to see what they are doing and what they are thinking. Even if you don’t have a direct fit with them you might have an indirect fit so teams try to be as diligent as possible to talk to everyone....Certainly there are ways you can improve the organization by being in that situation but it’s frustrating because that means your record isn’t that good. It also means the players that are being asked about are good players and neither one is a positive. When you are in this situation, you think you have to do the best thing you can for the organization and you hope you aren’t in this position very often.” 
  • 11:20 AM: ESPN's Doug Padilla says that GM Jed Hoyer admits that calls have picked up since the all-star break ended.
  • 11:16 AM: Ofman tweets that the Tigers actually prefer Matt Garza over Ryan Dempster.
  • 10:25 AM: Our own Tom Loxas hears from an industry source that the Cubs are indeed willing to package Darwin Barney as part of a Ryan Dempster or Matt Garza deal.  The feeling is he could significantly upgrade the prospect return.  Another source, however, feels the Cubs will ultimately hang on to Barney because they greatly value his defense.
  • 9:20 AM: George Ofman starts us off with a juicy rumor that the Cubs already have two deals on the table for Ryan Dempster, one from the Detroit Tigers and one from the Los Angeles Dodgers.  Ofman says that the offer from Detroit includes a young lefty, which would seem to mean either Andy Oliver, Casey Crosby or Adam Wilk.  The latter two seem more likely to remain starters with Crosby having the better stuff (92-96 mph FB, curve, change) and Wilk being the more refined pitcher, but his upside is limited as a mix and match guy who's fastball does not touch 90.  My guess here is that of the three arms, the Cubs prefer Crosby.  As for the Dodgers, Ofman said the deal is for two young pitchers.  He mentioned LHP Chris Withrow and RHP Garrett Gould in a past tweet.  We've also talked about young Dodgers arms like LHP Chris Reed, and RHPs Allen Webster and Nate Eovaldi.  Then, of course, there's Zach Lee, but that seems unlikely.

Filed under: Rumors/Speculation

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  • Dempster's value will never be higher. The Cubs should move him ASAP or hope that a bidding war for him ensues if he continues to pitch lights out. They can always re-sign him in the off-season if he reaches free agency.

  • His value will be higher, the closer it gets to the deadline, as long as he doesn't have bad starts. Which right now, a bad start would be giving up a run or two.

  • Dempster is the only trade that needs to be made. All others are conditional on a good return.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Agreed as far as the big names, but Reed Johnson and Jeff Baker will probably go too. They'll be FAs and Cubs would probably like to get something for them.

  • Of the Dodger pitchers besides Lee, Eovaldi, Gould and Webster would interest me the most.

  • That's a pretty good group. I'd agree with that. Other guys a bit more risky but still have upside.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    After looking at Wilk's numbers, if I were the Cubs, I wouldn't lose interest just because he doesn't light up the radar gun. He doesn't walk many and he seems to know how to get guys out.

  • He's gotten the job done to this point, but not too many guys with his velocity are better than a #4 or #5 starter in the majors.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Every team in the majors needs 5 starters. I read somewhere that the new FO prefers pitchers that throw hard rather than ones that get results. I hope that's not the case.

  • I think what you have heard is that they prefer hard throwers over the soft throwers. The want results from all players.

  • In reply to Clark n Addison:

    No, I remember. There was a pitcher that some people thought the Cubs might be interested in who had a lower career ERA than any of their current starters. Other people said that the Cubs were more interested in starters that threw hard, not starters with low ERAs.

  • I think I read that too.. but I think thats because we naturally lack power arms. We have plenty of 4/5sp that have a chance like Jokisch, Kirk, Raley, Rusin, Concepcion, Kyler Burke, pretty much one at each level. We do need 5 starters but by trading for wilk we really don't gain much because we have so many of those finesse lefty pitchability control guys and a few of those guys are close as well.

  • Interesting the Tigers are in on Dempster. If that is true it would seem they found Garza too pricey. If they pull the trigger with Detroit than the Garza sweepstakes looses a big suitor.

    Something that continues to baffle me is dealing Soriano. I don't understand how he wouldn't fetch a decent return if the Cubs eat most of his contract. When it has been discussed it usually is said the Cubs will eat his salary and get next to nothing back. Obviously his value is as a DH, and to a team like the Rays it seems he could be a bargain at a couple mil per.

  • In reply to Abe Froman:

    Garza will cost them at least Turner which I honestly thing is worth their while. I wonder if they're still trying to get Castellanos, which would be incredible for them.

    I'm not sure Soriano goes either. But the way he's producing, he may yet bring someone of good value back if the Cubs eat salary. At any rate, he won't be part of the Cubs future, so it has to be considered. Value is the highest it's been since 2008.

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    Both deals sound good for a 36 year old pitcher in the last year of his deal. I'd lean more toward LA because it involves multiple pitchers but Crosby alone is enticing. This could get interesting. we come out on top regardless.

  • In reply to Marcel Jenkins:

    I think there is another player involved in Detroit package but not a pitcher. Regardless of how it goes, it looks like the Cubs will pick up a good arm or two.

  • George Offman is a wonderful person.

    I wonder if Theo is trying to get the Tigers to throw in one more prospect and is playing each proposal off the other. Casey Crosby would be a great return. But I see the Tigers offering the other two instead.

    Still don't think teams will meet Theo's price for Garza. But I suppose we'll see.

  • In reply to felzz:

    I'm still not sold they'll trade Garza either but his value is pretty high right now. He's the guy teams want for the reasons we talked about before, but we've seen other teams may be willing to settle for guys like Wandy Rodriguez, Francisco Liriano, and Jason Vargas.

  • Theo/Jed have been through the July trade deadline wars
    before, but I hope they don't wait to long to trade any of
    their players. Get the best deal(s) but don't ask for the moon.

  • In reply to emartinezjr:

    I'm getting the feeling you may actually be losing sleep over this EMJ. John - you may want to take another vacation, it's the best thing for EMJ's health. :)

  • In reply to Cubswin4harry:

    I'm off tomorrow...sort of. Going to take a road trip to Peoria and catch a game.

    Of course, that's when the Cubs will make their first trade :)

  • Man the rumours are flying, if the tigers did want to trade casey crosby plus others for demp i would be good with that, think i would prefer that to gould/whitrow from LAi think, but honestly either looks pretty good

    I am fine with keeping garza if terms arent met, though i can easily see someone getting itchy and pulling the trigger (again, jays please!!), that extra year of control w/the comp pick if he doesnt extend is much more valuable this year, if he doesnt get traded i can see the extension talks to keep him here heating up again for sure

  • In reply to Andrew13:

    Dempster will be traded. I think the Cubs will do their best to find a good trade for Garza if some team willing to pay price. It's probably in their best long term interests to trade Garza, but they don't have to do it either, which puts them in a good position.

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    Just my guess, the Dodgers offered Withrow and Gould. The Cubs asked for Lee and Gould. What really happens is the Cubs get Reed and Gould.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    i would be happy with that return on Demp.

  • In reply to Michael Caldwell:

    That works.

  • I see that the Braves' GM is on the lookout for a shortstop. I wonder if we should showcase Barney at his natural position? Maybe we can get more for him that way.

  • In reply to SFToby:

    I'm sure the Braves would love a guy like Barney, but they have their guy coming back in 6 weeks and I think Barney would cost too much for a stopgap. Can't move to 2B with Uggla there....unless they plan on moving Uggla to 3B next year to replace Jones.

  • Tiger news. Turner's taking Smyly's turn in the rotation, at least for 1 start. Also, Detroit's giving Castellanos some starts in RF in the minors.

  • Some think Castellanos won't be able to play 3B well enough -- but that's where he has most value, especially to the Cubs.

  • I'll be very interested to see how Turner pitches too.

  • Lots of speculation about Dempster's trade value, but not much comment about Dempster's Cubs career. He's likely pitching his last game as a Cub.
    In terms of WAR Dempster is the sixtth most valuable Cubs pitcher since 1970. I know that WAR is not the best way to calculate pitcher values over history, but it is a shorthand to remind us that Dempster has been one of the most valuable Cubs pitchers of all time.
    Ahead of Dempster on the WAR list (per Fangraphs) are: Reuschel, Maddux, Big Z, Kerry Wood and Sutcliff.
    Heading into the season there was lots of talk about Garza being our ace and Dempster having declined into a back of the rotation starter. But Dempster came into this season and has been our best pitcher by far. (By all means, look at Dempster's numbers of the past four season versus Garza and tell me who the better pitcher is).
    Aside from Dempster eating 200 innings each season and being one of the best Cubs pitchers over his career, he also has a stellar reputation as a good teammate and team leader, even during periods over the last few years when the rest of the clubhouse seemed to have a poisoned atmosphere.
    So while we chatter over which 20 year old AA pitcher we might get for him, maybe a salute to one of the best Cubs of all time is in order.

  • In reply to baseballet:

    Thanks for posting this baseballet.

    We will miss Dempster for his work on and off the field. Whoever gets him will be getting a great ballplayer and a great person.

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    Got to admit John I am loving this new piece. It gives my fix that i need.

  • In reply to Larry:

    Thanks!

  • I'm checking in hourly or thereabouts on this topic. Good work, John!

    Barney and Castro work so well together that I hope we really get maximum value for Barney if he's traded.

  • In reply to cubsin:

    Thanks Cubsin...hopefully things start picking up a little soon.

  • Greetings from Sevierville, Tennessee. Headed to the Smokies home game tonight on our way to visit family in Georgia. As much as anyone, I want a major haul for Garza( Blue Jays with young arms plus Marisnick or just multiple arms, or the Tigers with Castellanos and pitching); but I'm starting to wonder if it will occur. We seem to be in a current era where more and more of the GM's are putting a premium on their top prospects; and you have to believe our asking price is steep(and rightfully so). Teams just aren't going to put a Middlebrooks or Castellanos in a Garza deal-so maybe we end up in the worst-case scenario where we end up holding onto him and combining him with Shark and Wood next year for a very solid start to a 2013 rotation-and that isn't a bad thing by any stretch if we don't get our price. The more intriguing ones right now to me are Dempster and Soriano. First of all, what is wrong with AL teams that don't want to consider a hot hitter whose current team is willing to eat a majority of his salary?! I can't believe a prospect or money would get in the way of such a deal. I never thought I'd say this, but maybe having him between Rizzo and Castro isn't the worst thing. Jackson continues to be a bit enigmatic(3 more K's last night)-and Soriano isn't blocking anyone at the moment. From a marketing standpoint, if he can stay productive, he can help protect these young emerging hitters, help the Cubs win a little bit along the way while they build for sustained excellence in the long run, and keep fans in the seats at the same time. If we could somehow get a top prospect for him-I say do it; but I'm warming to the idea of having him around. As for Dempster-what is fascinating to me is while teams are leery of giving up multiple top young guys-there seems to be an interesting bidding war starting to emerge for Demp. He makes a ton of sense for teams still in it that have starters on the mend(Yanks, Tigers, Jays). What is ironic is he may just bring back a couple young arms despite being a more short-term solution. Love the new Rumor Thread!

  • In reply to Upstate NY Cubs Fan:

    Thanks Upstate!

    As for Garza, I do agree that the Cubs are in a pretty good position here. They'd ilke to get good prospects, but they don't need to trade him. It makes a difference because it means they won't take sub-par value for him. There are worse things than can happen then a top 3 of Garza, Sarmardzija, and Wood. All are still pretty young.

  • I read somewhere recently that the T-Rays may have some level of interest in Soriano; and one poster suggested a Soriano for Chris Archer deal. Not that I see it transpiring-but I would love to get him back. Wonder now if we included the wrong pitching prospect in the Garza deal... The Smokies AA schedule was shaping up earlier in the week for McNutt to be starting tonight in the game I'm going to see with family-really bummed he has been moved to the pen. While it may make the most sense long-term-it takes a young starting prospect off a list that is already extremely short on such talent. If we could pull off a mega deal for multiple prospects(I know-I just won't let it go completely), maybe now is the time to include McNutt in such a deal if it significantly helps the return on our end).

  • In reply to Upstate NY Cubs Fan:

    We mentioned it in yesterday's rumor thread and that was one of the comments by a reader/contributor. I'd be thrilled if we got Archer back, but that's too high a price for the Rays.

    I don't know if the McNutt move is permanent, but I do want to see it. I think he can dominate in that role.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I think that's a basic of the Cubs mgmt - put a player in position to dominate and when he does, give him a new challenge. Builds real confidence. That's why he left Rizzo in AAA for so long.

  • In reply to SFToby:

    Exactly. And that next challenge may be to start again, as the Cubs did with Samardzija and Cashner. I don't view it necessarily as a permanent move, but it wouldn't surprise me if he pitched very well out of that role.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    John,
    Soriano for Archer isn't fair even with the Cubs continuing to pay his salary? What do we need to add, would a Soto or Baker be enough or is their value just too far apart?

    I also like trading with Detroit. I would like to get Turner, Crosby and Wilk. I would give them Garza, Barney, R. Johnson and Campana. Do you think this trade is fair?

    As for Dempster, i wouldn't trade him because he is a good role model for the younger players and he still is pitching at a high level. I think the fans really enjoy the Cubs' improved play of late and a starting rotation of Dempster, Maholm, Shark, Wood and Turner would keep the good playing to continue. I would put Wilk, Archer and Crosby at AAA.

  • In reply to John57:

    Even if Soriano was making a couple of million, he's still a 36 year old DH with bad knees. Hes a temporary fix and Archer has value as either a starter or reliever for the next several years. Tampa doesn't normally sell out their future to win now.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I wonder if Tampa would part with Wade Davis for a Soriano/LaHair package? The Cubs would need somebody to start if they deal Dempster and the in-house options are pretty weak.

  • Man, I see Dempster has pitched 5 innings of 4 hit, no run ball-puts his ERA at 1.88. You have to take your hat off to a guy who is dealing with all this trade speculation(and perhaps family issues)-who can go out there and get the job done time and time again. While such an outing is only going to drive his asking price up; from a fan of the game standpoint-I have tremendous respect for his efforts, his professionalism and wish him continued success with his next organization.

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    Someone in that drawing looks suspiciously like Matt Garza.

    Talk about your conspiracy theories!

  • In reply to Bobby Douglas:

    Haha! That's a caricature of myself :) Wife looked at it and it made her laugh, so I figured it must be a pretty close resemblance!

  • John, I love the 'Rumor Thread'. Kudos to all the messages/thoughts/ideas from the posters. The wealth of information from everyone is outstanding. It's impressive how in tune everyone is to all the players around the minors. So much for the stigma that Cubs fans are ignorant.

  • Thanks Greg! I always knew there were smart Cubs fans out there and I'm flattered to have them as contributors here. All of you guys add a lot to this site.

  • Can't see this lasting beyond tomorrow for Dempster. What's your feeling, John.? Where will Dempster go and for whom?

  • In reply to pricewriter:

    LA seems to be the place. As for whom, I'd just be guessing. Some combination of Reed, Gould, Withrow...probably.

  • Well John, I think you know i love trade rumor talk so I'm loving this. Kind of bummed, Zach Lee is not part of the Dempster rumor, but in retrospect it makes sense. Lee is the Dodgers top prospect and it's going to take more than Dempster to get him, especially since he's a free agent. If I was going to make a prediction now, I say Dempster goes to the Dodgers, maybe the Cubs throw in LaHair , that way the Cubs get another good prospect thrown in. Once Dempster is traded , then the Garza talks really pick up, I'm leaning about 75-80 % that Garza will be dealt , either to the Tigers with Barney or the Blue Jays.

  • In reply to Steve Flores:

    Lee is too much for Dempster, probably. Dempster/LaHair in the same deal sounds plausible.

  • He might not play great defense, but Sori has shown himself to be adequate.

    I don't get those out there insisting that the Cubs have to pay everything and get nothing in return....

    Seriously? If you're going to get a possible 30 hr/ 100 RBI guy for $800,000/ yr, you're going to have to give up something useful, not junk.

    Soriano has value--even at full value-- as there are bigger contracts out there performing worse from an offensive stand point:

    Player A:  36 yrs old, $27.5 M/ yr;
    .265 13 HR 38 RBI .784 OPS

    Sori:  36 yrs old, $800k/ yr (If Cubs were to pay all but $2M over the next 2.5 seasons);
    .275 17 HR 53 RBI .835 OPS

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    I don't think they'll get a scrub, but I can't see them getting anything more than a B/C level prospect. He's still 36 and a DH type. Teams usually don't give up a lot for that even when the player is cheap.

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    I take it that Player A is an A-Bomb named A-Rod??

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    And good point on the two players. A lot of is perception when it comes to Soriano. People assumed he was done and they probably aren't convinced that he's not. Then again, if the Yanks want to trade A-Rod they'll have a heck of a time finding a taker unless they eat a ton of that salary too.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

     
    You're right.  A lot of it is perception. Of these two, which one looks like he is the closest to being finished?

    Since 2010:

    player 1:  67 hrs, 220 RBI &
    142 gms/ season

    player 2:  59 hrs, 225 RBI &
    118 games/season

    hint: player 1 is Sori, player 2 is A Rod

  • Why on earth would the Cubs eat most of Soriano's salary in a trade for some minor league scrub?? Surely they're not that stupid.

    Here's the deal, AL teams... we're GIVING you one of the top DH's in the game, cost controlled for two more years. You give the Cubs a GOOD prospect or prospects in return.

    Otherwise the heck with it. Soriano's blocking no one and the Cubs might as well keep him. I'm not at all confident Jackson going to be an improvement any time soon... he won't hit 30 HR's and he'll strike out even more (hard to believe).

    Now that Soriano is no longer the 2nd coming of Dave Kingman in LF - he's actually more than decent now - Jackson would only be an incremental defensive improvement. I wouldn't be shocked if Soriano's the LF not only this year, but next as well. Jackson needs to improve significantly to displace him.

    BTW... anyone else note Sori's added hustle since "The Incident"? I sure have... he's taking bases and even stealing one now and then. I'm chalking that one up as Lesson Learned.

  • In reply to eaton53:

    Exactly. If teams want him for nothing, they may as well keep him if he's going to produce. You can always waive him and eat his salary later if you need to make room.

    I don't see Soriano going anywhere if what Heyman says is true.

  • Here's my take:

    Players(s) that WILL be traded:
    - Ryan Dempster

    Players(s) that COULD be traded, if Cubs get an AMAZING offer:
    - Matt Garza
    - Alfonso Soriano (amazing like paying his salary OR giving up a good prospect)
    - Carlos Marmol (amazing like paying his salary OR giving up a good prospect)
    - James Russell

    Players(s) that COULD be traded, if Cubs get a DECENT offer:
    - Reed Johnson
    - Jeff Baker
    - Shawn Camp
    - Geovany Soto
    - David DeJesus
    - Paul Maholm

    Players that COULD be traded to SWEETEN a deal:
    - Bryan LaHair
    - Tony Campana
    - Darwin Barney ( a super sweetener)

  • In reply to Cubswin4harry:

    I'd agree with most of this list. I don't think they're asking for the world for anybody on your "someone decent" list, but I'd be tempted to put Soriano and Marmol on that list too. Assuming the Cubs agree to pay a significant portion of the salary, they'll take a decent prospect for either one of them.

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    In reply to Cubswin4harry:

    I disagree the cubs need a great deal for Soriano.

    a decent deal would definitely do it, and I believe even a crappy deal would get done if a team didn't require us to absorb his contract.

    Ricketts may have money, but if the Dodgers offered us a low level prospect and were willing to take 100% of his contract, I'm sure the Cubs would pull the trigger.

  • In reply to Giffmo:

    "if a team didn't require us to absorb his contract" sounds like an amazing deal to me.

  • In reply to Cubswin4harry:

    Yeah, I think any team will to take all or even most of Soriano's contract will get him for nothing.

    If the Cubs gotta pay him it's gonna cost a good prospect. The Cubs are clearly willing to pay cash money for good prospects.

  • With Dempster pitching another great game and extending his scoreless innings streak to 33, I'm surprised a deal isn't getting done....

    Perhaps teams keep waiting fr that streak to end so they can buy "lower".

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    I think teams have a pretty good handle on who Dempster is. If I had to guess, they were more interested in seeing if his velocity and command have returned after his DL stint, and whether he's able to bounce back and make back to back starts.

    As long as Dempster feels fine tomorrow, it's possible he could be dealt as soon as next week.

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    It would be great if the Phillies were able to sign Hamels and the Brewers won enough games to no longer be sellers.

    Just for fun, if the market dried up and the Rangers were desperate...

    Would to trade Dempster AND Garza for Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt?

    We really need starting pitching, but I think that's a deal no one could pass up. to have an infield that talented would almost totally negate weak pitching.

  • In reply to Giffmo:

    Maybe if Theo and Jed get Jon Daniels really, really drunk :)

    Olt might be possible in a Garza deal if Texas wants to go in that direction.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    thinking about it now.... I'd trade them both just for Profar.

    Then try to throw in Barney, LaHiar, Campana, Maholm, Soriano....
    Well, pretty much everyone that has trade speculations to get Olt thrown in. lol.

  • I haven't heard any discussion about Dempster's current salary. Is it assumed the new club would pick it up? Or the Cubs would pay most or all of it? If the Cubs paid most of his salary for the rest of the year, would that bring better prospects? If Ricketts has the funds, it seems it would be part of the deal to pay most of his salary and use that as a chip to get an additional or better prospect. What do you think?

  • In reply to JayPea:

    Cubs will pick up most of his salary so that they can get better prospects.

  • The teams I would like to see the Cubs deal with for Garza because of talent are Rangers, Blue Jays, Cards and Tigers in that order.

  • In reply to WickitCub:

    That works for me.

  • If I was Dempster, I'd block any trade to the Tigers. That team just looks and feels like the 2009 Cubs. Lots of Money, lots of expectations and nothing is really clicking. Papa Grande done lost his damn mind. (Assuming he ever had it.) Benoit isn't that much better. And if I'm a pitcher, I sure as hell don't want that defense behind me. I'd almost insist on bringing Barney with me.

    Sounds like more grief than excitement. If I were Demp, I'd let the Theocrats know my preference is L.A. After all, I'd be the one with the Veto rights.

    Of course, I'm not Demp.

  • In reply to felzz:

    Great point on the defense in Detroit. Dempster relies on it more than Garza does. Garza is his own worst enemy on defense.

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    If the only major player moved is Dempster, Cubs could be better than expected next year. Maybe I'm drinking the Rizzo Kool-Aid a bit too much, but their starters would be:
    Garza
    Samardzija
    Wood
    Maholm
    ????

    Starters would be:
    C: Soto
    1B: Rizzo
    2B: Barney
    3B: Stewart/Vitters/Valbuena
    SS: Castro
    LF: Soriano
    CF: Dejesus/Jackson
    RF: LaHair

    Probably some of the players doing well would regress a little bit, and that's no offensive juggernaut, but it's not bad. I'm still in favor of more trades overall, but if can't get value we could have a decent (although probably not a playoff) team.

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    In reply to Kevin Heckman:

    That looks a lot like us right now.

    And we're TERRIBLE.

    Am I missing something? How does that make us better than expected?

    Soriano will probably return to his norm. LaHair's defense will be bad and his offense will continue to plummet. None of those options are attractive at 3B. Soto is worse than ever. Dejesus doesn't have CF range.

    THAT team will not be sneaking up any anyone.

    What's worse, most of those players are very old and lose value every week.

    You said yourself that team wouldn't make the playoffs. So what's the point? Continuing to miss the playoffs just keeps us from drafting the best players.

    I hope they trade nearly the whole roster save for Castro/ Rizzo/ Shark. One of the biggest advantages, while rebuilding, of trading hot players is BEING BAD. A couple years of terrible play is a small price to pay when it yields you a top tier player.

    If we don't rebuild the RIGHT way, the result will be more futility.

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    In reply to Giffmo:

    I'm not saying I don't want them to trade. However, what do you do if no one wants your players? You don't give away players just for the sake of doing it. All I'm saying is that if they end up with the roster I've laid out, they might be fun to watch. They've been fun to watch since Rizzo came up. While I'm on board with the rebuild, I can't bring myself not to cheer for the team.

    I'd also point out that they're not "very old." The only player who qualifies there is Soriano. I don't know all the ins and outs of everyone's contracts, but Garza's the only player I know who definitely loses value next year because an acquiring team won't get a draft pick in compensation if he signs elsewhere.

    So no need to berate me. I've enjoyed the 10-4 record since Rizzo came up. I'm looking forward to seeing what we can get for our guys. I'm willing to go through bad seasons if it yields several top tier players. Not sure about trading two full seasons of terrible play for one though. All I'm saying here is that the Cubs have had some success and if we end up unable to trade some of our players, I will hope they - and the team - surprise some people next year.

  • "he has such a great sense of how to get the job done (and) he will help you win each time he goes out there"

    Sounds like Maddux....

  • In reply to cubbie steve:

    It does! What that scout said shows the kind of respect teams have for Dempster right now.

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    Best case scienario it's gonna be a fire sale. Teams bidding top scouts for him and it keeps rising and rising.

  • John who do you predict opening day catcher is next year?

  • In reply to drew:

    Welington Castillo, but only if the Cubs can move Soto.

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    Any news on Soler and Almora?

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