Marmol likely out as closer

Marmol likely out as closer

According to Paul Sullivan of the Tribune, Carlos Marmol will likely get bumped from the closer role he's held, sometimes tenuously, the past few years.

Sveum said his only other options for the closer role are Rafael Dolis and James Russell,  and that matchups will dictate which one he uses.

Marmol, for his part, understands his manager's thinking,

"He's the manager," he said. "He can do whatever he wants to do. I agree with that. Whatever he wants to do. I'll take the ball whenever he asks me."

This could be the beginning of the end as far as Marmol's time in Chicago.  The Cubs may have to cut their losses as a reliever who is making 7M this year and 9.8M next year is a liability, not an asset.  Unless Marmol miraculously turns it around, I'm expecting that this move is just one step closer out the door.

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  • Although i do feel horrible for demp n the rest of the guys who played really well. These games tht we shoulda won but eventually lost will work to our advantage at the end of the year whn it nets us a higher draft pick. Who knows, in a few years when we have a stud on our team, we could be thanking marmol. Our time will come. Marmol was meant to blow these games. N so are the cubs

  • In reply to Arod773:

    Demp's been robbed of a few wins now. He could be 4-0 if he could get good defense, run support, and bullpen work.

  • Ouch! The Cubs may be eating 60 million give or take.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    I think each Cubs fan should pitch in a dollar. That should go a long way toward paying that ;)

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I'd pay $100.

    But I'd want a special T-shirt.

  • In reply to Bobby Douglass:

    LOL.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    Something tells me Jim Hendry probably owes us a little more than $1 John.....

  • In reply to Ryno2Grace:

    lol. Let's hold him by the ankles and shake him.

  • In reply to Ryno2Grace:

    I'm not sure he owes me anything. I could have chosen not to go to games. But I do have to blame him for probably buying more beer than I normally would have :)

  • Has to be Dolis, doesn't it? Russell is pitching better lately, but with Maine going down, that would leave them with no lefties in the set up corps. Plus Dolis is probably more likely to hold the job in the future, so it'd be nice to see what he can do.

  • In reply to North Side Irish:

    I think they'll mostly use Dolis, but if there is a situation where lefties are coming up in the 9th, they'll go Russell. I'd rather have Maine up, he has closer stuff and use Russell in a Marshall type role.

  • It could be mental with Marmol, who really seems to be overthrowing. Maybe he'll be loser as a 7th inning guy. He won't ever return to his 2009 form, but he can still be an asset -- albeit an overpriced one.

  • In reply to Taft:

    I think it probably is partly mental. His mechanics have always been whacked, so hard to blame it on that.

  • In reply to Taft:

    Meant to say "looser." Not "loser." Freudian slip.

  • In reply to Taft:

    Haha! Definitely a Freudian slip there.

  • there are certain players on the cubs roster that the front office wants to establish trade value. these players, IMO, are:
    camp, dempster, maholm, marmol, wells, soto, baker, dewitt, stewart and soriano.

    very few of these players have done that so far this season and most of them have seen there trade value go down or diminish completely. (while i recognize that guys like soto and stewart are beginning to turn things around, that really does nothing for me right now until the transformations are complete)

    one player who has established some value is bryan lahair. he is a left handed slugging first baseman (something somewhat scarce in baseball these days) in his prime years and will be getting paid close to the league minimum for the next two years.

    if he continues to play the way hes been playing (obviously he wont continute to hit .380 with a 1250 ops, but i think u get the point) is it possible that we could get a valuable propsect or two out of him?

    with guys like marmol destroying their trade value, i think we need to look at a guy like a lahair as a way to add more value to this clubs future.

  • In reply to jshmoran:

    LaHair is arguably the most popular Cub right now, but I can understand why the Cubs would consider that option for all the reasons you state.

    I also worry about a non-athletic player as he gets into his 30s being able to play the field, especially the OF. I think his value into his 30s will be as a DH.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    if he keeps playing this way and somehow earns an all star birth, what do u think we could get for him?

  • Here's hoping Sveum has the guts to follow through, and the FO's permission.

  • I think if it's up to Sveum, he's done as a closer for now.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    No sense stopping with Marmol, remove Soriano as the regular LFer and start giving Castillo and Clevenger (when he's back) more of Soto's playing time.

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    Heh. I was thinking last night that we may start seeing spot starts ( :-) ) of the Hair in LF.

    Marmol's time has been coming though. He's had uh, "loose bowels" since early/middle of last season. Closer by committee.

  • any ideas on how we get rid of him? is trading him for crap and paying his salary a better option than keeping him around in a limited role? i can see why we'd do that with someone like zambrano but it's not like marmol is a liabitly (unless he's on the mound).

  • In reply to adamlweber:

    10M is a lot for a middle reliever, which is about what Marmol will make next year. Right now he has no trade value, so you could make the argument to keep him and put him in non-game situations and see if he can find some semblance of command, then maybe gradually work him back into the late innings.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    Look at Sori and Marmol through the same lense.

    Neither of them produce and they're both overpaid. Both have large contracts and a large sunk cost.

    Essentially, they're dead weight and the unfortunate legacy of years of mismanagement and few options; play'em, sit'em, trade'em.

  • In reply to Bobby Douglass:

    Agreed. Both are sunk costs at this point, or at least something very close to it. Those are probably the main two pieces left of the spend happy legacy of the late Hendry Cubs.

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    Where exactly can he be used with any degree of confidence? I don't think his problem is just the ninth inning. He has 2 pitches. One is very hit-able and the other in controllable.

  • In reply to BigMO:

    Two pitches are all you need if you can command them. Trouble is Marmol can't control either. His stuff is good enough.

  • Hitters have figured out that they can leave their bat in the dugout. Until Marmol throws strikes it will not make a difference which inning he pitches. I hope he finds the plate soon.

  • In reply to 44slug:

    Ludwick wasn't even trying to hit. He was taking close pitches, seemed to have no intention of putting the ball in play.

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    It's going on a year since he's pitched reliably. Do you think he has a secret grudge against Dempster? Maybe Dempster slept with his wife?

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    That's uncontrollable.

  • Marmol made lots of appearances over the past 3-4 years for Pinella and Quade. And Marmol throws a ton of sliders. That takes a toll on a pitcher's arm (example Nathan).
    The Cubs still owe lots of money to Marmol. I hope they can get some return for what he will cost them.

  • In reply to Rosemary:

    Good point. Those sliders had to have taken their toll. And Piniella used him as if his arm was made of rubber.

  • In Marmol's good years he was getting lots of swinging strikes on sliders out of the zone. The league is on to him now, and hitters are taking lots of pitches. Also, his slider has lost some of its bite, and he seems afraid of challenging hitters with his fastball early in the count.

    Stick a fork in him.

  • In reply to clarkaddison:

    Agreed. I think the league has caught up to him.

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    The angles need bullpen help maybe they can change marmol around dewit and marmol for trumbo he can play third I know wishfull thanking

  • In reply to Kent Kellett:

    I doubt they'd want those two guys. I'm also not sold on Trumbo. Good power, but not really a good player overall.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    I know john I just like trumbos name lol. I just wish they would dump marmol he is killing us !

  • In reply to Kent Kellett:

    It is a good name ;)

  • Use him in the 8th inning for about 2months and see if you can get him settled down. If you will recall he was big time in 08 in that 8th inning set up role. If he still can't get any one out regularly in that role dump him for whatever you can get.

  • In reply to Leo the Lip:

    I thought he did well in that role. Maybe that will get him right again. They have to try something.

  • Marmol came up as a catcher/outfielder. Any hope there? Just kidding. I am ready to turn the page. Sometimes the squeaky wheel doesn't get greased, it gets replaced.

  • In reply to Break The Curse:

    Ha! Marmol was a dreadful hitter. I do think he's running out of chances. That big contract for next year really hurts right now.

  • If I never see Marmol pitch for the Cubs again, it'd be too soon...He's a mental midget...

  • In reply to Luigi Ziccarelli:

    I can't make judgments on his intelligence. I don't know him. All I know is he can't throw strikes.

  • I crunched some numbers going back to Marmol's last 30 games with the Cubs. His numbers since August 11, 2011:

    27.2 IP, 20 H, 28 BB, 17 ER

    I believe that works out to a 5.53 ERA and a WHIP of 1.73.

    Unacceptable for a closer.

  • In reply to Taft:

    Correction: That's 18 ER, meaning Marmol's ERA over the last 30 appearances is 5.86. Ouch!

  • In reply to Taft:

    The walk total says it all.

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    In reply to John Arguello:

    This year he has 9 BB and 8 K.

    Sigh.

  • In reply to Bobby Douglass:

    I think it's 12 walks now.

  • John, agree with your assessment of Maine. I'd like to see him stay up and get in games in the late innings. As much as I like Dolis, I'd rather have a guy closing games who can strike people out, even if he gives up occasional walks. A walk is not as big a deal when you have a clean slate at the beginning of the inning--but you want a guy who is tough to hit.

    People don't make good contact off of Dolis, but they do put the ball in play, and in a tight game, you don't want them stringing together a few seeing-eyes ground balls for a run. I'd rather bring in Dolis when there's guys on base to get double plays--like a close game in the 7th or 8th with one out and guys on first and second.

    It's going to be hard to carry both Marmol and Castillo in the same bullpen, especially if Kerry Wood is fragile and possibly erratic himself. If it were me, I would be tempted to hide Castillo on the DL for a couple of months until the Marmol and Wood situation is a little more ironed out. Then bring him back in July or August when things are more settled and you can hide him, pitching him only in blowouts, and get him his 90 days.

    Another benefit of doing that with Castillo is that we could keep Maine up with the team. This is the year to give extended looks to guys like Maine. It's sad to see him be sent down so we can give appearances to Marmol, Wood and Camp--I don't see how that can really be justified.

  • In reply to SVAZCUB:

    I'd be willing to give them both a shot. There have been some decent closers who weren't strikeout guys, and hitters don't usually make hard contact against him.

    I think eventually he'll learn how to put guys away, trust that slider, and his K rate will increase.

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    Pitchforks and torches. Pitchforks and torches.

  • In reply to Bobby Douglass:

    This was the first game of the year that made me really angry. I'm with you.

  • Her's hoping Marmol can pitch his way back to the closer role, for the simple reason that he pitches okay , then you can trade him. At this point, he might have to lumped in with someone else, like Dempster, to get decent value in return. Maybe a team like the Tigers, Leyland is said to love Dempster and they need starting pirching, maybe Leyland thinks he can turn around Marmol as well.

  • In reply to Steve Flores:

    I'm losing faith that he can do that. If it was just this April, I'd give him a pass, put it started about halfway through the season last year.

  • That contract is the last turdburger Cruller Jim left behind for us. Still plenty of dead weight to cull from this roster.

  • In reply to Eddie:

    I have to admit I didn't hate it at the time considering he was young and it was less than most top closers....but I wasn't crazy about it either. Looks really bad right now.

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    Anybody thinking Dempster might have a good bit of value for a team in contention? His number look really good and if he loves Chicago that much he can just come back as a free agent. And it gives a chance to showcase Randy wells or see if Travis wood is a staple in the future rotation.

  • In reply to Marcel Jenkins:

    Absolutely. Dempster will get a lot of inquiries.

  • Two thoughts: This isn't football where draft position matters. No player, manager, or even front office guy tanks a season to get a better draft position in baseball. Develop young players or spotlight assets to trade...yes. Play for draft position...no.

    Two: I think it is a mistake to throw dolis in the ninth. His numbers are awful right now. Not getting ahead, too many walks, not enough K's. I'd rather see wood, camp, or even corpas before dolis. He's not ready. I'll live with russell, but he will struggle with righties. I wondwr how many timea theo has kicked himself for trading marshall?

  • In reply to jimmy mac1:

    I hope no one here is serious when they talk about the Cubs playing for the draft. I was assuming those comments were tongue in cheek.

    I'd rather have Cashner back, especially with how well the 1st baseman we already had on the roster is playing.

  • In reply to Cubswin4harry:

    I think it's tongue in cheek. Too much unpredictably and too many years down the road to bank on draft picks.

  • In reply to jimmy mac1:

    Baseball teams don't tank for the draft. Unless maybe there's a Ken Griffey out there...but even then I don't think it happens.

  • I thought Sveum said something interesting today about how Marmol kept throwing his slider when he needed to throw his fastball.

    a) How can everyone and their mother know this, yet Marmol still insist on throwing the slider that the whole world knows is coming and wont be over for a strike?

    b) how come Bosio and/ or Sveum cannot control what the guy is throwing? How about heading out to the mound and say: " you throw another f$&@ing slider and you'll never see the ball again"?

  • In reply to Cubswin4harry:

    Marmol's always had much more confidence in his slider. When he gets into trouble, he goes what he thinks his bread and butter is. To me, it's pretty common with pitchers. Most of them try to overthrow (this is what drives me crazy about Trey McNutt sometimes).

    I don't think coaches have that much control from pitch to pitch but it definitely should be something they talk to him about on a general level.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    He's 50% slider, 50% fastball this year. Not sure that's the problem anymore. Now it's location.

  • In reply to Carne Harris:

    It is actually down from his past 3 years but I think the Cubs would like him to lead with his fastball even more. He's not fooling anyone with the sliders behind in the count anymore.

    Location is the main problem with Marmol, though.

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    I root for the guy. Hope he turns it around. You can tell from the look on his face it's killing him.

  • In reply to Carne Harris:

    Yeah. I'm sure he hates it as much as all of us do, probably more. It would be best for everyone involved if he did better, but it just isn't happening.

  • Looks like the Angels found the RP they were looking for. Too bad the Cubs couldn't have interested them in Marmol.

  • Try him in the 8th. Marmol was always better in the 8th.

    His problem's command of course, but he is tipping his pitches a bit. He brings his arm more straight down by his back leg when it's a fastball and makes a bigger arc away from the leg for the slider. Tempo of his delivery may be a little faster for the fastball too. Slight differences but if I'm picking it up, you know major league ballplayers are.

  • In reply to Carne Harris:

    Interesting Carne. I'll have to watch for that next time. I'm probably closing my eyes too much when he pitches ;)

  • In reply to John Arguello:

    To pray. :)

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