Kirk Hinrich won't lose minutes to Tony Snell

Kirk Hinrich won't lose minutes to Tony Snell

Tom Thibodeau noted that the Bulls are 11-5 when Kirk plays over 30 minutes which seems to lay the groundwork for Tony Snell to get screwed.

Of course the Bulls are also 8-2 when Kirk plays zero minutes.

Either way, reasonable or not, logical or not, Tom Thibodeau is laying the groundwork for Kirk Hinrich to step in and play big minutes which likely will relegate Snell to a smaller (no?) role.

In the best case scenario, I think the Bulls split out Hinrich/Snell in the 1st half and close with whomever plays better. In the worst case, the Bulls start playing Hinrich a crapload of minutes while he stinks of the floor again and again.

Snell is clearly the better defender right now with superior length/athleticism and his instincts may not have entirely caught up to Kirk's but his physical attributes more than make up any difference.

On offense, he's shown the last few games that he's also drastically better.

Maybe we shouldn't jump over Tom Thibodeau just yet. Let's see what he actually does first, but the writing is on the wall. It's a four letter word. Kirk.

Trade deadline today, Bulls in no rumors

The trade deadline is 2pm CST today. The Bulls are in no rumors and seem very unlikely to make a trade.

I have no complaints about this. Chicago lacks matching salaries to make anything happen. I just don't see a trade to be made really.

There's some rumor going around that Kevin Martin might get bought out in which case the Bulls would be interested, but it's hard for me to believe that the Wolves buy out Martin.

From Martin's perspective, he'd probably be willing to give up half his salary in a buy out scenario because he'd make it up on a new contract with a team of his choice, but I just don't see the motivation for Minnesota.

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  • This is the quote, ‘You base it on performance,’’ Thibodeau said. ‘‘If a guy’s playing well, obviously he plays. If he’s not, you look at what the season tells you. Look at Mike [Dunleavy], for example. We’re 25-10 when he plays. With Hinrich, when he plays 30-plus minutes, I think we’re 11-5. You look at everything.’’

    Well Kirk currently averages 6.5ppg 2.5apg 1.2 TOpg .364 fg% .336 3ptfg%. So apparently Thibs think those are good numbers. Most people know that 16 games is a very small sample size. Stuff can happen by chance instead of what should be happening. Thibs is just trying to justify why he refuses to play Snell or Mcdermott, or Butler in the past.

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    Oh well; Hopefully, Rose's play will rise, Snell will continue to maximize his playing time, Butler will get back to his early season MVP contending play, Noah will be a force on the offensive boards and team defender, Niko's regains his shooting touch and tenacious defense, Dunleavy shoots lights out, Pau keeps being Pau, and AB gets back to being that spark plug in scoring for the Bulls. And if all of that happens, hopefully, the Bulls will win the Eastern Conference. O' yeah....Taj's jumpers knee heals before the playoffs too. Go Bulls!

  • In reply to Michael Cunningham:

    I know this is a week old, but even a week ago, Butler has held his numbers from early in the season, aside from a short streak of poor play that coincided with the early portion of the Bulls big slide. I love reading when someone says that Butler has "regressed to the mean". This far into the season, with this number of games played, his averages would be well below 20 by now to constitute a "regression to the mean". A regression to the mean is Jeremy Linn post "linsanity"(gag). Butler isn't quite at his peak averages for the year, but he hasn't shown even a hint of returning to his previous 13 mean points per game.

  • You know damn well coach stubborn pighead will play Hinrich in front of Snell. Please, just make Hinrich a coach already or move him into the front office, " I DON'T WANT TO SEE HIM PLAYING" unless there an emergency.

  • In reply to juice44:

    The truth is, if the Bulls are in a situation where they NEED to play Hinrich, you might as well give the minutes to the end of the bench, or get a look at a D-leaguer. Because at that point, they aren't winning anything anyway.

  • In reply to BullsMan:

    Exactly. May as well play 4-on-5 with Hinrich on the floor.

    I would compare Bogans to Hinrich, except that Thibs seemed to limit the damage caused by Bogans.

    He started, but was usually out by the first or second time out, not to be seen again until the start of the 3rd quarter.

    If Hinrich could play all 5 positions simultaneously for all 48 minutes of the game, I don't doubt Thibs would give it a try.

    I just don't get it.

  • In reply to BullsMan:

    Even in mop up duty, I'd much rather see McDoug. He scored 9 points in mop up duty last time out, Hinrich would need 30 minutes a night for 6-8 weeks to score 9 points.

  • Tony Snell is no future all star but he's shown he can be a solid 3D roleplayer that can compliment both Butler and Rose with the floor spacing. The problem with Thibodeau's preferred 3 man rotation at the wings is that two of those players are non-scorers so it puts pressure on the bigs and Rose to carry the complete load on offense. You need more scoring from the wings and I just don't see how you get that with playing an old non scoring pg at the backup sg spot for 30 minutes a game. If this is how things are going to be then McDermott is screwed for next year. Did the Bulls give up two draft picks for nothing? When Coach Thibodeau falls in love with a scrubby veteran "who plays the right way", "makes the team function better", and all the other stuff he says, forget it, most of the young players will never get a chance even when they show promise. KEEP VETERAN SCRUBS AWAY FROM THIBOE, he just can't help himself.

  • The way Snell has played of late, it's absolutely unfathomable that any remotely sane person would give his minutes to Kirk Hinrich. Even if Snell only plays half as good the rest of the season, he'd still be light-years ahead of Hinrich. How does Thibs not see this? I would say the rest of this season now rests in the hands of Tom Thibodeau; bench Hinrich, and the Bulls have a chance to get out of the East. play Hinrich, and we're looking at a getting bounced in the second case scenario.

  • In reply to BullsMan:

    "The way Snell has played of late, it's absolutely unfathomable that any remotely sane person would give his minutes to Kirk Hinrich." Dead on, BullsMan!

    If that happens, the FO needs to fire either Kirk or Thibs. Or else the owners need to fire the FO. Or all three!

  • Thibs is 3-4 in playoff series. Nuff said, particularly when playoff series records are stacked in one's favor (you can only lose one series per season, whereas you can win multiple series per season).

  • In reply to bjb57:

    I don't think you can hold the Philly lose or the second Miami lose against him. Once Rose is out and then didn't Noah get hurt, against the Sixers they had no shot. The next year they shouldn't have gotten by the Nets and had no shot against the Heat. The Wizards lose was a bad, horrible lose though.

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    said lose meant loss

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    I think the Bulls have outperformed expectations in only one playoff series (Brooklyn), while underperforming in others. If one is being generous to Thibs we would only count the series against the Wizards as underperforming. If we are being harsh on Thibs then we could say that the Bulls underperformed during all of the 2011 playoffs (underwhelming wins in the first two rounds and losing to the Heat in 5 despite having home court), the Sixers series (should have still found a way to win that series despite the injuries) and the Wizards.

    I guess my point is that the expectation was that Thibs was going to be a top-5 coach. He has demonstrated that he is maybe that in the regular season, but who cares about the regular season when over half the teams in the league make the playoffs? It is the post-season that matters. He has been a mediocre post-season coach, imho.

  • In reply to bjb57:

    I would tend to agree. Bulls did not look great in 2011 playoffs and should have gone 7 with Miami, IMO. Things had not come together at that point for Miami and they were not that good. Bulls were the better team. Gave up 8-10 point lead in last 2 minutes of game 5 AT HOME. Lost in overtime in Miami, when Rose had the last shot in regulation. Probably should have won game 2 in Chicago - Haslem went nuts after not playing in months... Thibs refused to play Kurt Thomas for better offense.

    Every commentator was predicting the Bulls to win the series after game 1. But, Spo made adjustments and Thibs made none. There was no counter adjustment by Thibs. Rotations stayed the same.

    I will give you this. I believe it was game 2 when Asik got hurt and he was amazing in game 1 and in the prior playoff series. Completely cut off the lane and changed the game.

  • In reply to Granby:

    I totally agree with you, at the very least the series should have gone 7. Coach stubborn drive me nuts with the over coaching and the impatience with younger players.

  • This news worries me. I have nothing against Hinrich playing in the games as long as it is as a backup PG only. Snell deserves to get playing time and I think it would be wrong to take that away from him now. Brooks can get out of control and I don't want Rose playing to many minutes, so I think there is still a role for Hinrich on this team. Just not a very big one.

  • It's just not fair to Bulls fans or the players themselves to NOT develop Tony Snell and Nik Mirotic. You are not going to win with these other old broken down players as major role players. Your just not. And that includes Dunleavy who on defense and rebounding on many nights kills you as a major minutes guy. Short minutes 18 some nights bomber that's fine. But Kirk..?? Please.

    Kirk Hinrich in all seriousness, I mean when you look at his two point field goal percentages the last three years in significant volume are awful. And though some perceive him as a "savvy" veteran player - well I'm sorry but to me for YEARS people have complained about his bonehead penchant to get suckered into fouling three point shooters at the end of ball games. Also, sometimes he just plays guys to close on defense and then commits obvious fouls and bitches and complains about them, and it's just annoying.

    From some of the comments Kirk has made in the past such as in the playoffs, "Let's win one for Vinny" I mean to me you don't even need to make that comment and that is just something you keep in house. I just don't see Kirk as this heady player some other people do. If you listen to him in recent years he's kind of a whiner about his minutes and if the team loses and he played like crap he won't even own it and pretend it's just a "team" failure.

    I will not look back on the last several years of Kirk's career with any fondness honestly. His career field goal percentage is nothing to write home about and for the minutes he occupied on the court his assist totals are underwhelming as well. And again his volume two point percentages the last three years have just killed you as a team.

    Kirk will have those stat skewing Ben Gordon "hot" games, and then most of the time his turnover and horrible shooting games well they just get overlooked by a perception bias guy like Thibs. And that really hurts you as a team and as a coach. I admit I don't like Tom Thibodeau personally, but aside from that his biased treatment of players not only hurts player development and player morale but it just flat out hurts the team.

    Bottom line: the way Tony Snell has played and Mirotic earlier this season along with Brooks there's no way you cut those guys minutes in follow up games or just because they have a bad game. You simply have your future riding on these guys developing and if you jack around with their minutes and don't reward good play then you just shouldn't be in the head coaches seat.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    "I will not look back on the last several years of Kirk's career with any fondness honestly." I agree, except when he ripped the ball out of Bosh's hands to seal the ending of the Heat win streak. That was cool.

  • Afflalo in PTB per Woj.

  • In reply to jaet:

    As I noted yesterday they had better players/contracts to offer Denver, only gave up a lottery protected first in 2016 or 17 or 2 seconds after that. Given where Portland is at, that sounds like 2 future seconds too me.

    Thomas Robinson, Victor Claver and Will Barton(the guy we should have taken instead of Teague) are certainly less garbagey than the POSdog, Nazr and Moore. If we were willing to give up our first this year, that still should have trumped Portlands offer. I doubt we were even in the game.

  • If Thibs uses that reasoning to give more paying time to Hinrich over Snell, then I have nothing to say. When other teams players (Dirk) are openly calling out your players (Hinrich) for terrible plays and Hinrich is missing wide open layups and being roasted while defending Bradley Beal, how can you not give Snell more time than Hinrich? Maybe, the FO should step in and make a trade of Hinrich for nothing (I know you have to match etc. but I'm just praying for a miracle).

    Speaking of trades. ESPN also reports that Affalo is headed to Portland along with Alonzo Gee for Victor Claver and Will Barton which seems fair. But apparently Portland is also giving a future first and second round pick. That is amazing to me given that Affalo could leave at the end of the season and I expect him to leave Portland if he could find a landing spot where he will start because Portland has Wesley Matthews.

    Denver's front office is dealing. Something needs to even out for Denver. Please Denver. You have already had a windfall. Now even it up. How about Kirk Hinrich for Jameer Nelson? That trade would work. And Denver has a bigger better defender (cough) to play point guard in Denver for Brian Shaw since he let Andre Miller go in a feud to the Wizards. And there are rumors that Denver may not want to keep Ty Lawson. I'm ready to try anything so that Thibs gives Snell more playing time than Hinrich and even plays McDermott more than Hinrich. If Nelson comes, Thibs isn't playing him more than Snell and maybe not more than Brooks. And other teams are looking for point guard help so maybe the Bulls can move Nelson for a tall wing defender. Alright, I've stopped dreaming and I'm waiting to see how more Hinrich play affects everything with my fingers crossed.

  • I'm hopeful that Thibs is just being nice about Hinrich as opposed to saying "Wow does Hinrich suck now" to the media :-) He did say if someone is playing well they play. Tony Snell is performing as of late and is giving the Bulls exactly what they want from him. Fingers crossed he's the first wing in off the bench AND keeps up the solid play.

  • Trades going down and rumors abound. If the Thunder can get Brooke Lopez for Reggie Jackson who doesn't want to play there anymore anyway while dumping lead weight has been Kendrick Perkins that definitely helps them come playoff time IMO.

    Funny, some things never change. Miami aka Riley might be getting a good player in Goran Dragic simply for two "future" firsts while discarding some garbage players/salaries in the process. Of course that doesn't ensure Dragic will resign there, but Riley usually can get guys to do his bidding.

    Enes Kanter could be a nice pick up for somebody. Afflalo, it will be interesting to see now how he performs as in shoots and scores for Portland in the playoffs. Hopefully we won't be banging our heads as he helps lead them to the WCF.

    Minor move, but George Karl getting Nuggets reunion with Andre Miller. Helps the Kings depth if they indeed are trying to turn the winning culture around that started the season unless the tank is in aka rest of the season is a "development" one featuring heavy minutes for a not ready for prime time Stauskas etc.

  • If I'm GarPax and Thibs is serious about giving Kirk back his 25-30 minutes per game, I cut Kirk. I'm serious, it's like in Moneyball when the manager insisted on playing Pena at first base over Hatterburg, so Billy Beane traded away Pena to force the manager to play Pena, and then the team took off. This isn't just the best thing for the Bulls in the long run but it's the best thing for the Bulls' chances this year.

    Thibs won't like it but even KC Johnson says there's no salvaging the relationship between Thibs and FO anyways.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Err, Billy Beane traded away Pena to force manager Art Howe to play Hatterburg. It should be noted that Howe is a good manager, he was just doing what he felt was best for the team to win but if you're the boss you have to step in sometimes. The employee won't like it but he'll be just fine if the team wins.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Very interesting tactic.

    I wonder if Thibs is being a jerk to force the FO to get rid of him this summer.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    It's more then just thibs. Hinrich is a favorite of the coach, management and ownership, they love this guy despite him sucking big time butt. He must have some special basketball charm going on to get these 60 year old somethings to fall all over themselves for him. I mean they gave this guy a player option and close to 3 million a year when he should be a vet min candidate.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    I agree that would be a good move, but with Hinrich holding a player option for next season, not sure how you cut him. If he was expiring this season it would seem doable.

    Plus, I doubt that it is only Thibs in the corpsedog camp. GarPax are the ones who keep resigning and overpaying him.

  • Both Dragic brothers to Miami, naturally. This is a microcosm of why our front office isn't elite.

    Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh and Whiteside, thats a pretty interesting starting 5. Given the beating they put on us last time, are we better than that group.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    The Heat have suddenly become very interesting. Dragic is not a superstar but he definitely changes the dynamic of that team in a very positive way. Wouldn't be surprised if Heat become a top 4 team in East depending on Wade's knees.

  • Garnett to Minny for Thadeus Young, not a bad move for the Nets as Garnett gives up his no trade to retire in Minny.

  • OKC just added DJ Augustin and Enis Kanter, along with Kyle Singler and Steve Novak. I guess they gave up Reggie Jackson to the Pistons and maybe Perkins to the Jazz.

    Wow, talk about addressing your bench needs. and they added Waiters earlier this season. Again, this is what an elite front office looks like when it's time to push all your chips into the center of the table and go all out to win a title.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Is it me or did the Jazz get hosed in that OKC-Pistons 3 way deal? I understand Pistons trading Singler and Augustin for Jackson. I don't understand giving up a young interesting center in Kanter and a floor spacing shooter in Novak for Kendrick freaking Perkins? I don't see any report of any 1st round pick going to Jazz. If not - bad deal for Jazz.

    Great trade for Thunder. They get a good back up PG, 2 shooters and a nice big man. Take notice Bulls FO - this is how its done.

  • Looks like Shawne Williams, formerly of the Heat, is going to get bought out from the Pelicans after the trade today.

    Williams would be a nice athletic stretch 4 who would be a nice bench pickup for the Bulls. Hitting 3s at a near 40% clip this season. He would eat into Mirotic and Gasol's time but I think Williams is a good player to have and use for matchup purposes.

  • I knew if I kept fixating aka blathering about Enes Kanter somebody(as in some other team not being the Bulls) smart would pick him up as talent like that is not always available at reasonable prices. Still, the true test will come in the playoffs, and we'll see how he fares. Obviously the Lopez deal fell apart, but a hell of a plan B for the Thunder. Plus they get everybody's favorite little engine that could in D.J. Augustine.

    When I see Dragic on the move for two firsts and expirings that's a pretty sweet deal for a player with his efficiency and production. Brandon Knight is a nice young talent at guard as well. Oh well, we sure didn't need any shoring up at the guard spot as we already have the gold standard in winning with Kirk Hinrich according to our beloved coach Tom T(T is for turd). AUUUUUGGGHHHHH(long bout of vomiting sound).

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    That was a shock, there has to be more to it(a draft pick somewhere). I realize that Utah has decided(correctly) that Gobert is the future at center and they've already committed big money to Favors at PF. Very nice pick up for a back up on a contender, although they did just resign Collison and have Steven Adams as the likely future fixture at center.

    Also can't believe Philly dumped MCW for the Lakers pick that they owe Phoenix. It is top 5 protected this year, so unless the Lakers get passed by 2 or 3 teams in the lottery drawing its staying put this season. Don't know about future protection. I guess that Philly was afraid that they might win too many games this year so they traded the near future for the further out future.

    With Melo out the Knicks are a lock for the worst record, heck they might not win another game this season. With Minny getting healthy the Lakers had a good shot at second worst record with MCW still in Philly, so I guess they couldn't take that chance. Philly fans have got to be pissed.

  • According to the Trib, the Bulls asked about Gerald Green and the Suns asked about Taj. Are they knucking futs. Taj would have been a talking point for Dragic. Green might have been salary cap filler in a bigger deal.

    Looks like Miami gave up 2 future firsts(no details on protection). I guess that means that they are ready to pay him this summer. That guy can't be a max player, yet with the cap about to explode teams will be throwing around the max this summer like George Halas tossed around man hole covers, or something like that, ask Ditka.

    I guess that we all knew the Bulls weren't doing anything, but like winning the lottery, it's always nice to dream about it before the drawing.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    They cap is expected to go up the summer of 16 when the new deal comes into play. Teams wont be doing anything cap wise this summer. As for the Bulls doing something what did you expect them to do? Trade their picks for a player who said he wanted 3 sites LA Miami or NY plus he wants to play PG how could he do that in Chicago? Dragic wants the ball in his hands cant do that in Chicago.

  • In reply to BullySixChicago:

    Actually teams will be throwing around the current max this summer because all those deals will look like good value money when the cap goes up in a bigway the following summer. Thats why everybody and his brother will get max offers this summer, they won't be anywhere near max deals one year from now.

  • 11-5 when kirk plays 30+. As many have said he is letting us know what's coming. I dont understand thibs he should have been a football coach. His love for these no score defensive players such as Bogans, Brewer, and Kirk why? Thibs also dont care about rookies.

    Reading and hearing what Rose and Butler have said about Tony I think they are the first to challenge Thibs playing or not playing Tony. I also feel that Pax/Gar also see the impact of Tony and the none impact of Kirk.

    We will see tonight what thibs minute rotation is for kirk and Snell. Kirk plays 30 and they still win we are going to have some internal issues. We have Rose and Butler harping on Tony playing. This is going to impact thibs with the front office again another reason to say he is hurting the team with his use and nonuse of players.

    My thought what are the major Bull players think about Kirk getting any minutes over Snell Moore Brooks or even McDermott?

  • In reply to BullySixChicago:

    Add Noah to the camp that wants Tony to play. You know he loves to break out the Snelly Cat nickname. I really cant wait to see what the rotation is tonight with everyone healthy. Please no Kirk. Please no Kirk.....

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