Tom Thibodeau on Derrick Rose... shots fired!

Tom Thibodeau on Derrick Rose... shots fired!

Tom Thibodeau appears to be getting exasperated with the Derrick Rose injury situation.

Video here

"Jesus, got to get out there and play ya know. Did a lot of good things, can see he's not real comfortable with the ball yet but that'll come. When Derrick strings some games together he's going to take off so he's got to go. That's the bottom line."

Nick Friedell tweets on the topic:

"Thibs, on if he thought Rose was fatigued in the 2nd half: "Oh I don't know. Jesus. He's got to get out there and play ..."

"Thibs, on if he thought Rose was fatigued in the 2nd half: "Oh I don't know. Jesus. He's got to get out there and play ..."

"Thibs: "When Derrick strings some games together he's going to take off. He's got to go. That's the bottom line. He's got to go."

"Exasperated Thibs on whether Rose&Gasol would be able to play in Denver tomorrow night: I would hope so. Jeez. We'll see tomorrow, I guess."

"Thibs has been pretty consistent about wanting Rose on the floor since camp opened. Tonight was just the most open he's been about it."

Quite honestly, this shows Thibodeau is part of the problem. Look, Derrick Rose DOES need to go, but he needs to go when he's healthy. He needs to go at a rate that will allow him to step up his activity and stay healthy.

Thibodeau already has shown he has no ability whatsoever to control himself without much guys plays. It's entirely black or white with him. A guy is playing as much as Thibs needs him for unless he is barred from playing that player by a third party.

We've seen him play guys to death immediately returning from injury countless times only to have them have recurring injury problems.

In the end, Derrick Rose may be over conservative, but it's hard to blame him when his coach lacks any sense whatsoever on what to do with an injured player.

If you remember back to his Boston days, Thibodeau got into a big argument with Doc Rivers over minutes for players. Rivers wanted to rest, Thibodeau wanted everyone to play. Rivers, being the head coach, won out, and the Celtics rested, entered the playoffs as a lower seed and were one shot away from winning the NBA championship over the Lakers.

If Thibodeau ran that team, they'd likely have never made it that far. They'd have been to beat up from the regular season. There's a reason this Bulls team can't stay healthy. It's great to want to have a warrior mentality about things, but there needs to be some level of realism mixed in there too.

The Bulls don't have the type of roster that can afford that mentality. They have a crapload of injury prone players and need more rest.

At this point, it's almost becoming difficult to see how this issue won't ultimately get Thibodeau kicked out of Chicago. The guy is a tremendous coach, one of the best in the league, with a couple flaws which he simply does not see.

With a different roster, it might not even be a flaw. With a group of healthier guys it might never even come up. He could easily lead a team to a championship with a healthier group, but this isn't that roster, and he needs to wake up to the reality around him on this issue.

Derrick Rose needs to get on the floor, but what's keeping him off the floor? So far, one of the big culprits is trying to get back on it twice before he was ready.

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  • "There's a reason this Bulls team can't stay healthy."

    That's crap, and you know it, Doug.

  • I think Doug has a good point, especially in light of Luol Deng's comments today in a column by Sam Smith. Rose played hurt often, according to Deng, because of his love for the game, the pressure of being a no. 1 draft pick, and playing for his hometown team. Deng said he and Noah often told Rose to not play, but Rose played any way. In short, unless there is a third party to limit Thibs' authority over playing time for recently injured players, we may continue to see Bulls' players break down.

  • In reply to unclejimmy:

    If what you're saying is true and I fully believe it, wouldn't that mean Rose was the one who couldn't be left to give honest assessments of his own health? Thereby deeming how Thibs dealt with it irrelevant for his injury issues. Now Rose essentially is in charge of his play or don't play decision, kind of funny. Rose may have learned his lesson and it sure seems so. But point being; no matter what, Rose's major injuries were mostly due to luck and genetics, just like any injury, but in the small space left for other possible variables that might have causation to injury, a good portion of it has to be filled by the fact that Rose was dishonest about being ready to play in the years leading up to his ACL tear. How much does that really leave for Thibs? You can say he didn't minimize risk, that's fine, but for all major injuries the coach's powers to wear out a player or what have you aren't close to the power of genetically predisposed bad ligaments and plain old bad luck. Doug says theres a reason for the injury problems, yes yes there is, and Doug even mentions it; they have a good number of injury prone players. Thibs should be ripped for not minimizing risk, but to say he's the biggest or even close to biggest cause is simply incorrect.

  • I have always said Thibs is one of the best assistant coach if not the best. But he is just not that great of a head coach. His rotation is too rigid. His game plan is also rigid. This leads to things never changed which becomes a problem in the playoff.

    A few more things I would like to comment.
    1. Noah needs to stop trying to get the ball near the 3 point line. This has killed us every game. He would try to get the ball, unable to create anything and wasted many seconds on the clock which ultimately leads to a bad shot with shot clock winding down.
    2. Does Rose ever go under a pick and roll defense? It seems like he should sometime.
    3. Our team should get better especially come the playoff time. They have actually been playing pretty sloppy team ball which is exactly the opposite of previous years. This bodes well for us as we actually have individual talent on this team now. Once our team chemistry improves, our team will become the true contender we all envision baring injuries

  • In reply to handushk:

    Funny that you mentioned point #3, I've wanted to comment on that for a while now. However, I was looking at it from the opposite perspective. I was going to suggest that anyone who passes the ball to Noah with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock should be immediately benched. This seems to be happening a lot this season even moreso with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock. Noah seems to be terrified of playing offense this season, everytime that he gets the ball in those situations he looks lost, doesn't even try to make an offensive play, then in a panic passes the ball to someone/anyone else for a horrible shot just to beat the shot clock.

    I don't know if this is because of Gasol's taking up the center space or the return of Rose, or injury, but there is something mentally wrong with Noah on the offensive end of the court.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Ooops, I meant point #1.

  • Most hi-intensity athletes are injury prone because they give so much effort they strain their bodies. We especially see it in all the contact sports and gymnastics. Even in sports like golf, tennis, ice skating and diving it happens a lot.

    It is the nature of these sports. Common sense and great trainers may help to minimize injuries, but I am afraid they will always impact the games.

    From all the anecdotes about players on the Bulls, they need to get smarter about how they deal with this.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Hey rusty,

    Just wanted to give you a heads up, I received your book. Thank you so much for the awesome gesture! Chloe is with her mom tonight (we came home from the hospital yesterday), so I will give it to her tomorrow.

    She's a hit/miss reader, she devours stuff she likes, but has a hard time finding stuff she likes. I think if something doesn't grab her immediately she has a had time maintaining interest. The jacket sounds like something that would appeal to her though.

    Anyway, I really appreciate the gift and the note, it was really awesome!

    Thanks so much!
    Doug

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    God that's a depressing article. I don't know what you mean about black and white though. Noah has been on a strict minutes limit and is averaging 31 MPG and Rose is only averaging 27 MPG as he plays. I have no argument that rides some players too hard, but I doubt that would be the reason he gets kicked out of town.

  • In reply to Tony DeMaria:

    He's black and white in his thinking. He's even said so before, if a guy is healthy enough to go he can go.

    Other people have imposed minutes restrictions on him, he didn't come up with them nor does he agree with them.

    Prior to this, we saw him regularly play guys 37-40 minutes in the first game back from an injury only to see recurrence.

  • "Shots fired!" Funny turn of a phrase. Except in the case of the Chicago Bulls front office, and now the head coach the more accurate term might be Friendly Fire.

    First it was the Chicago Bulls front office in Gar/Pax who "outed" Derrick Rose and said he was fit to play(before the playoffs and coming off his ACL admittedly year long recuperation). Brought to you by the guys who told Luol Deng he was just imagining his leg was fractured. Only problem is Deng's own doctor he had to seek out for support found otherwise.

    Now it's Simon Legree aka slave driver Tom Thibodeau doing the backstabbing management dirty work. And could there be a worse time for this shot at Derrick then after the "20 years from now" fiasco? Never could it be more fittingly said that with friends like these who needs enemies?

    'Bulls front office doesn't show loyalty,' D. Wade. While you know the shabby source was unfairly exploiting things(and admittedly a different player situation with Michael, Scottie, and Phil's perceived boot from Krumbs Krause) for personal gain still what was there to exploit and why the hurt feelings if it was nothing? "This is Vinny Del Negro for Strangle Proof," the tear away tie" As Seen on TV. "Skeletons rumble, on two!"

    Look, the media and 24 hour news cycle driven by profit for profit's sake is largely to blame. That and the frittering away their time haters who feed into a lot of the Twitter bombast etc. Nearly every major TV network owns a piece of the NBA either directly or indirectly. Ratings wise sometimes bad news is good news in ratings and interest. Enter one Derrick Rose. Build em' when their up, kick em' when their down. The American Way or better the American media's way.

    Back to Rose, the sad backdrop for this latest episode of "As Derrick's Ankle Turns" emanates from a poorly reported story which I would classify as a journalistic failure which is pretty much what ESPN's PR machine has become in total. Truth be told the set up, loaded question that evoked said inept retort from D.Rose, "Did you learn from this(playing on his bad ankle in Milwaukee) that you CAN play with injuries??" Nobody focused on this instigation. Nobody!

    Of course in the wake of Derrick' sorry ass come back which even though he out of pride reiterates, I don't believe this was his primary thought about graduations and his health down the road at all. Simply he was trying to successfully counter a personal attack the way all public figures(entertainment, politics etc.) do. And even the best spin doctors screw up on occasion flying by the seat of their pants. Let alone a verbally slow to the tune of a 120 year old tortoise in Derrick Rose.

    Bottom line: this latest dumb utterance by Bulls management and coaching will serve to further alienate players both on the team and prospective free agents. True it's always about the money, but when there are many bidders at the same neighborhood or max price you still have other considerations like state income taxes, sunny beaches and bikinis that go with them, and front offices and coaches known for turning on their own.

    Of course if Derrick were a better professional on the P.R. side of things the way elite arenas like pro sports demand, there would be no issue here. Still, this latest episode of "As Derrick's Ankle Turns" only goes to reiterate why, despite some good front office moves and coaching acumen, this Chicago Bulls hierarchy is FAR from deserving of fan appreciation and support. Pathetic.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    "Bottom line: this latest dumb utterance by Bulls management and coaching will serve to further alienate players both on the team and prospective free agents. True it's always about the money, but when there are many bidders at the same neighborhood or max price you still have other considerations like state income taxes, sunny beaches and bikinis that go with them, and front offices and coaches known for turning on their own."

    Yeah, no. Gasol could have gotten much more money elsewhere, and he could have played for the Spurs, that perfect organization that everyone idolizes (rightly so).

    Just like the Deng stress fracture - which lasted a total of ONE DAY (in reality, Deng went to see a specialist who found the stress fracture immediately), it's mostly the fans who think the Bulls front office is so horrible.

    In reality, they do business like most other professional sports franchises. As most athletes will tell you, there is a difference in being "hurt" and being "injured". Guys play "hurt" all the time and it's expected of professional athletes, but nobody expects a guy to play when he's injured.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Agreed.

  • "There's a reason this Bulls team can't stay healthy."

    Yeah...other player's feet. Injuries happen.

  • In reply to evilhoban:

    The Rose situation is clearly different, he hurt himself in Denver simply by jumping up and landing on his own 2 feet, almost like he impaled himself on the floor just by jumping and landing.

    Coming off a hamstring injury, Rose should not have played in Utah and played against Denver to avoid a back to back and have 2 days to recoup from his first game back.

  • I see why Thibs is frustrated, but injuries happen. Rose rested the hammy for, what, about a week? He had the sore ankles on top of that - nothing too serious, but may as well get healthy for the tough stretch coming up.

    Bulls are in great shape in the standings given that they are only in 3rd gear. They will need to shift to 4th and eventually 5th for the playoffs. It would be helpful if key guys like Gibson, Gasol, Rose and Butler could play consistently together, let alone Hinrich.

  • Wow, my head is spinning. Bad news, Taj, Kirk out. Good news, Derek,Pau are playin' tonite. Bad news, Derek looks less than right, but is hitting his shots. Bad news, McD + Dunleavy giving us little tonite. Good news, we still have the lead. Bad news, opps, now we don't. Good news, Jimmy to the rescue...,AGAIN. Bad news, (last play) Snell looks lost. Great news, Pau comes out from underthe hoop hard, and puts a hand into shooters face. We win. Yikes.., what a rollercoaster this game was. Now this article and the Thibs-Rose afterdrama.

    I am not at the practices, walk-thrus',therapy sessions, or live games...,only watch every minute on TV.

    Here are my observations as of 11/25.

    1--Thibs IS frustrated. With lots of things. Starting line-up day to day. Lack of contributions from 2 scared and ineffective players..,McD and Snell. Lots of side stories besides the game itself. Probably dealing with management on minutes limitations for certain players. Winning close games he thinks shouldn't be that close. And More.
    2--Just when we get consistency at the #2 position(Jimmy), #3 position is just the opposite. McD struggles every game and Dunleavy is On and Off every game.
    3--Noah, this game Bad Stats, lots of heart. What a battler..,and he's keepin' His struggles mostly hidden.
    4--Thibs is clearly frustrated. His perfectionist nature will always make him frustrated, I think. Now he's got a lot more broken toys to play with each nite.., and a lot more story-lines he must respond to.
    5--All these things make it very hard to enjoy these Bulls.
    6--I WILL make myself enjoy the struggle!!

    Comments???

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    I agree with all your thoughts except that its hard to enjoy these Bulls. I've enjoyed this team quite a bit. They are doing a much better job of finishing all those plays they had the passing to set up the past two years, and the offense has been much more entertaining.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yeah the offense alone makes this season captivating in my opinion. I don't think you can overstate how crazy of a swing this has been in the Bulls' offensive ability/production from one season to the other. Even if you account for what people expected from this offense, what we're seeing goes well beyond those expectations, and if healthy the numbers would be even higher. The two main developments driving that huge uptick on offense have to be 1. The emerging star no one was predicting in Jimmy Butler and 2. The still elite center everyone thought was much closer to done than he actually is in Pau Gasol. Makes you salivate over the idea of Rose being healthy enough to give you 35 mpg come playoff time.

    Wanna salivate even more? If Jimmy Butler really becomes what it seems he might unbelievably become, the Bulls might actually have found the one thing that can make the Derrick Rose "who knows what the hell is going to happen" contract a manageable burden. Wow... need to temper myself.

  • In reply to Chicagosportsguru:

    Other than Butler playing at a level that we could have dreamed of last season, and a glimpse or 2 from Mirotic I don't see that much about our offense to go gaga over. Gasol has been a great addition, but he isn't pretty to watch, and gives up most everything that he gives you on one end at the other. Until/unless Rose gets back to being Rose, our offense will still feel more like root canal surgery, you know kind of like the look on Hangdogs face all game long.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Yeah but Gasol and Butler are 40% of your starting lineup and both have been exciting offensively, though you don't seem to think Gasol is, and while Brooks has cooled off some, he's been a playmaker out there. It's only painful to watch when neither Brooks nor Rose are playing.

  • Has Thibs fallen out with both the management and the players? Management is surely pro minute restrictions and multiple players have talked about minute restrictions and being conservative with injuries. He obviously hates having limited control over the roster. The Paxson/Del Negro minutes scandal will surely turn out differently with Thibs as coach.

    Sit back and enjoy the show I guess because we have about 6 months of these interviews. The relationship between players/coach/management is only going to get worse.

  • In reply to Jamie W:

    Don't forget to add in the Media and make it a foursome. I question, slightly, the twist Doug put this article. IS Thibs questioning Rose's willingness to play OR alibiing for him as to why he is NOT at MVP level in his performance, yet giving a path on how/when he will?

    Comments???

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    To me he just sounds more pissed off with the media. He probably would be fine if he didn't get asked the same questions multiple times a day by media, that's got to be annoying.

    It sounds like he may have already had words with Rose privately trying to encourage him to get on the floor and Rose has yet to do so. I don't think he was trying explain his level of play. He did say he would "take off" when gets some games together but that was followed by "the bottom line is he's got to go". Just have to wait and see how it unfolds.

  • In reply to Jamie W:

    After watching the press conference, I agree that Thibs' frustration is with the media, not the team or players. I don't think Thibs cares all that much about injuries, he'll play whoever he's got and demand the same things he always demands. I think he's mostly sick of getting questions about it.

    I'm all for minutes restrictions because it seems like Thibs has only two speeds: Full throttle or stop, with no in-between. Management has to protect the team from the coach in this way. I may be alone but I don't see that as a problem, I think the GM-coach relationship is functioning the way it should.

    We have a really good management team and coach, flaws and all. Aside from the Spurs, it's hard to do better.

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    Could be. It's hard because in the video, you don't hear the exact question just the response.

    When he starts off with "Jesus, got to get out there and play ya know" it sounds like he's frustrated by Rose, but he could be frustrated by a dumbass question too.

  • If MJ can play through with a fever and the flu for a title, then Rose can play through a little pain.

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    1. Almost any player you want to compare to MJ is going to look bad.

    2. How do you know it's "a little pain" as opposed to a lot?

    3. It's apples and oranges. Playing through illness won't make you sicker. Playing through injury can make it worse.

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    I think it's pretty obvious that Thibs is frustrated with the situation of Rose being injured and constantly being asked about Rose's status, so he isn't mad at or disappointed in Rose.

    Thibodeau is one of the best coaches in the NBA, probably second best behind Popovich, and he NEVER has publically criticized or called out a player. And I don't believe he's doing that here.

    Ultimately, Thibs is right though. Rose needs to play to shake off the rust. Even Rose himself said that he is not feeling any pain. So, yeah, he has got to play.

  • I think Bulls fans are too tough on Thibs. He is a top 3 coach no argument. Who do u want to replace him? Most games I watch of other teams their coaching is terrible in so many ways. So Thibs wants to win every game and gets a crush on certain players, I'll take that over all the other crap coaches do. His defense is unbelievable and I was very impressed last year how he adjusted the offense to run thru Noah. Not to mention how every PG that comes to Chicago has a career year. Great job! The day Thibs leaves is the day I cry!

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    Yea, while it's fine to complain about something Thibs does that you disagree with, people who start suggesting firing him, or that he isn't that great of a coach just blow my mind.

  • In reply to Chicagosportsguru:

    Totally agree with you guys on that point: Thibs has some flaws that we can all see, somewhat significant ones, but he's still a top-5, maybe top-3 NBA head coach and the Bulls will get worse when he leaves. The FO is pretty good too, all things considered.

    All things are rarely considered though, when judging your own coach or FO in any sport. We all tend to minimize the successes and magnify the failures when looking at our own guys. Also, few people take a look at all the coaches or FO's around the league, they mostly compare their own to a cherry-picked group. For example, when you compare Thibs to Popovich and Rivers and ignore the other 25 coaches in the game, Thibs comes out looking like a guy you need to fire.

  • And yes Rose needs to man up. Yah he has played thru injuries before, so now he's done? I watcheddar Dirk sprain his ankle and come back limping to finish off a game in November. Derrick, you only get 10-15 years as a bball player, you've lost 3 already. Get out there and play or you will regret it later in life, and u are already gonna have achy knees at 45, I know I will and I'm not an elite athlete, so who cares, just win baby

  • In reply to Hendu0520:

    So you justify Rose playing through injuries by making a comparison between one of the most athletic players and one of the least. You can't get 2 more opposite players than Dirk and Rose. Derrick's game is speed and explosiveness, Dirk's is shooting.

  • And Popovich rests his guys all the time and 2 years ago Ginobili and Parker were hurt in the Finals, every team gets injuries

  • So when do we call it? Derrick's done.

    No, I'm not actually willing to believe that, not unless there's another major injury this season and hopefully there never is. But I don't find the observation offensive anymore.

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