Joakim Noah for Kevin Love? Sure

Joakim Noah for Kevin Love?   Sure

The question has been asked whether you'd throw in Joakim Noah to get Kevin Love, and though Noah's probably my favorite Bull right now, if you want to win basketball games, the answer is yes.

A package with Noah in it would have to give less of everything else, but in the end, if it was Love + Martin for Noah + Mirotic? I'm still in. There are two essential problems with this trade that fans will have:

First, there's a strong emotional attachment to Joakim Noah as well there should be given he's the emotional leader of the team. However, emotional attachment shouldn't get in the way of making a quality basketball decision. Noah's 29 and a half now with a game that depends largely on athleticism, he's unlikely to be much of a player in three years.

Kevin Love is three and a half years younger and even with an opt in to his contract and a five year max on top of that would leave him at 32 years old when he's a free agent. He'll have no bad years due to age and still has another six to seven years left in his prime vs three or so for Noah.

He also seems more likely to age well as athleticism isn't nearly as big a component of his game, so losing a half step won't make nearly as big an impact on what he's able to do or not do.

From a purely business perspective this is probably the best time you'll ever find to sell high on Noah and getting Kevin Love for him would accomplish that.

Second, Noah's contract is considerably less than what Love's is. After Love gets a max deal, you're effectively paying Noah + Mirotic the same amount that Kevin Love is earning. Seems like an overpayment. The problem with that is that defensively Gibson gives you as much as Noah does, and offensively, Noah's gifts become less important on a team with other quality offensive players.

He's a gifted ball handler for his size and one of the best passing big men in the NBA, but he still doesn't have much of a scoring game and without one those other skills have limited value on a team that does have scorers and won't put the ball in his hands as much. Noah's defense will still be invaluable for the Bulls, but his offensive strengths will be minimized as the Bulls improve the overall team.

There should be no question who the more valuable of these two players is. It's Kevin Love by a whole heck of a lot. Throwing in Nikola Mirotic then helps add value as well as taking back Kevin Martin's bad contract.

The thing with Martin is that his contract is bad more so on the fear of what might happen over three seasons rather than his actual performance. Martin's 31 and a half years old with three years remaining on his modest deal that pays him about seven million per season for the next three years.

Last season he was scoring over 21 points per 36 minutes on a TS% over 55%. That's really damn good. It's really, really damn good for a guy making seven million. He adds little to the team other than offense, but the Bulls could use a guy with his exact skillset.

They'd have to hope he doesn't fall off the cliff at 32 that so many players fall off, but even with some decline he's probably worth that deal for at least two of the three seasons, and seven million isn't some radical overpayment. Martin's a guy who's probably a negative to Minnesota at this point but wouldn't be one to Chicago.

From a salary perspective the Bulls pick up a little money in this deal (five million) and put themselves on a path to commit to a whole lot more when Love needs a new deal. However, when you have a guy who's worth the max paying him the max isn't a problem and shouldn't be looked at like one.

While there's virtually no chance a Love trade goes down for Chicago, and likely even less of a chance that if one does it includes Joakim Noah, if the Bulls could throw in Joakim and land Love, then it should be done. You get younger and better with the deal, it's really hard to pull that off.

That said, the Timberwolves probably won't get hung up on wanting Noah. Taj Gibson's a better fit for their roster and will cost them less money as well so in that sense Bulls fans needn't worry.

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  • Yeah you have to do it, although it'd be begrudgingly, because you hate to lose Noah, but Love being 4 years younger is the kicker.

    You'd have to think a third team would have to be involved to make it work, why does Minny want Noah? Noah to the Cavs, Love to the Bulls and Wiggins to the Wolves (plus other pieces to make the financials work)? Although hard to see Noah playing in Cleveland after his comments, he'd be an ideal fit for them, that trade could be a win for all three teams.

    On the other hand, if we're trading players the Bulls fans might hate to part with, Love for Rose straight up? I think the Wolves probably say no, but you'd have to offer it if you're the Bulls wouldn't you?

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Of course in a 3 team trade, Cleveland likely isn't giving up Wiggins for Noah.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    If Mini is high, and prefers noah/gibson, mirotic, and mcdermot, Shouldn't we trade those guys to minny, send k love to Cleveland, and take back Wiggins? Because, if I'm the bulls, I'm sure as crap doing that. Sadly Mini isn't high, and the bulls won't get K-love nor wiggins.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Maybe not, but they should be. Wiggins is never going to be LeBron's Pippen, it's just crazy talk - Pippen is 3 years younger than Jordan, not 10. By the time Wiggins gets to the age Pippen became a star LeBron will be older than when MJ won his last title!

    If they're willing to give him up for Love they should be willing for Noah. Noah is a lot better fit in Cleveland than Love IMO.

    Of course purely hypothetical, it'll never happen, etc.

  • As Doug says we love Noah for all the effort and passion he brings to pretty much every game. However, in the end he is "just a guy". It is only because the center position has been so degraded in the modern NBA that he is considered a top center. In bygone eras he certainly would not be considered a top-5 center and probably would struggle to make it into the top 10.

    He had a great year last year because the offense ran through him in the second half of the season, but I suspect that will be much less the case this year, assuming Rose stays healthy. Also, the Wizards really exposed his offensive flaws in the playoffs so now every team has a template on how to defend him and the Bulls when he has the ball in his hands.

    I would miss Noah if he ended up on another team, but I don't think losing him would have a meaningful impact on whether the Bulls could be a championship team, assuming the Bulls receive value in any trade. So, as Doug says, if you can sell him high - a big if, I would imagine - you should probably try to make that happen.

  • In reply to bjb57:

    well said.

  • I think the Bulls are more looking at win now. Keeping jo and love would accomplish that better than keeping love and taj.

    I don't think we ever had a real shot at Love in the recent race. We all knew wiggins would eventually get offered and that kills any deal we could scrap up. But I'm glad the bulls have been aggressive this year. Just don't gut the team for a rental. No trade unless a commitment is made.

  • As much as I like Joakim Noah (+ extras) and Klay Thompson (+ extras), if I’m Minnesota, I want Andrew Wiggins, and it’s not even a debate. If I’m Cleveland, I’m offering Andrew Wiggins, and none of the extra frills Minnesota is asking for. Wiggins alone is more than enough. No first round picks, no Anthony Bennett, no taking back bad contracts. Cleveland has all the leverage, and if they’re worried about pleasing Lebron, there is 0% chance of him ever leaving Cleveland again. It would be a public relations nightmare for him if he left. Not to mention answering to his wife, a northeast Ohio native.

  • In reply to RichG:

    "Wiggins alone is more than enough. No first round picks, no Anthony Bennett, no taking back bad contracts. " Wiggins will sign a rookie deal worth $4,592,200 dollars and after signing, can't be traded for 30 days, which has not started yet. Kevin Love makes $15.7M. Cleveland is above the cap, so they must send out payroll to match the incoming payroll. That is just how it works. So, Cleveland can't keep everybody and trade Wiggins for Love stright up because a team can't take on $10M more payroll in a trade when you are over the cap already. The rule in general is 125% + $100k. This means Cleveland would need to send about $12M in payroll to accept $15.7M. There are some tricks, but this is the situation in general. Wiggins is $4.5M of that amount. Somebody else must leave from Cleveland to take on Love's contract. Bennett did not live up to the hype as first overall pick, so his name is likely. He makes $5.5M. Cleveland just picked up $3M in non-guaranteed deals to help them make the trade. MIN would waive those guys after the deal was completed. The deal would be Wiggins + Bennett + the non-guaranteed deals + possibly some picks for Kevin Love. Wiggins has not signed yet, so for the moment he has no value in the trade. Until he signs the clock can start either on finalizing a trade 30 days later.

  • In reply to tomeboy28:

    That's not exactly accurate.

    Wiggins can sign for up to $5,510,640. And they can take back 150% plus $100,000 in a trade, so they have to send out $10,412,709. Wiggins and Bennett alone will make it work.

  • In reply to tomeboy28:

    If I were Cleveland, I would just include filler contracts to make the numbers work. I wouldn't send any first round draft picks.

  • In reply to RichG:

    I don't see how Cleveland has the leverage. Their star player who they've just acquired is about to hit the big 3-0 and has played a lot of minutes. Whatever his letter says about not expecting to win right away, he needs to win soon if he's going to do it.

    The Cavs can't wait for Wiggins to develop, they need to assemble a win now team. Everyone knows that and that takes away a lot of the leverage they'd otherwise have. If Wiggins doesn't go in a Love deal, I expect him to be traded down the track for someone else. They're not waiting around on a guy who is still quite raw while the clock is ticking on LeBron's status as the best player in the game.

  • What do you do with Pekovic's 5 year $60M contract?

  • I'm not sure why everyone is so high on K. Love, especially Bulls fans! We've seen this before! He is the 2nd coming of one C. Booz (with 3pt range). I've even compared stats...

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=boozeca01&y1=2010&p2=loveke01&y2=2014

    The stats show that while Love has a slight edge in points and rebounds, Boozer was more efficient and a better post scorer (more makes and much better FG% from 2). We also get a chance to see that Boozer stepped up his game in the playoffs in early years. We don't know that about Love b/c he has never made it.

    So in essence, you're replacing your non-athletic starting PF who sucks on D, with another non-athletic PF who sucks on D and can shoot the 3 and give up 2 of the 4 good athletes we have left on the team. While 2014 Love is a big upgrade over 2014 Booz, I just feel like we've been down this road before and hope the Bulls wise up before overpaying for another non-athletic stat stuffing PF.

  • In reply to muckfiami:

    When did Boozer ever average 26 and 12? When was Boozer considered a top-10 NBA player?

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Just to play devil's advocate, at the same age (25) Boozer did put up pretty similar numbers to Love:

    Per 36 (since Love plays a few more minutes than Boozer did)

    Love- 25.9 pts, 12.4 reb, 26.9 PER, .591 TS%
    Booz- 21.8 pts, 12.2 reb, 24.1 PER, .588 TS%

    And Boozer did it for a 51 win team that went to the Conference Finals, and then in the playoffs he put up: 23.5 pts, 12.2 reb, 24.2 PER, .576 TS%

    One more thing, I actually think Noah's playmaking becomes MORE valuable on a team full of shooters and offensive talent. How many assists did he miss out on last year because guys missed a wide open shot?

    Noah does rely on his athleticism, but his ball-handling and passing are only going to get better as he keeps playing. And his shot keeps improving every year, too, not that he'll ever be Chris Bosh drilling 3's.

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    In reply to Don Ellis:

    Good points but The boozer never stretched the D w his 3pt shot

    Plus love is a better pick n roll player then the booze at his peak

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Those stats are pretty close.

    Of course, the Bulls never had "that" boozer, or even close to it, just like we're not getting "that" Gasol.

    So anyone comparing Love to Bulls boozer is blind. I think that 26 & 12 is orders of magnitude better than 15 & 9. and they are not equivalent on D, no matter how bad Love is.

    Love is the quintessential modern day power forward, boozer in his heyday was the prototypical old school power forward, at least offensively. In his Bulls days, he was the quintessential piece of shit, far worse than even his stats might suggest.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Agreed. The Boozer they are referencing is the 2006-07 and 2007-08 version of Boozer. Boozer was not in Chicago until 2010-11 and he was not their primary target. Boozer's career average in all seasons is 16.6 ppg. Chicago got 17.5, 15.0, and 16.2 ppg in his first 3 years. That is right on par with his averages. Anybody thinking he was going to go to his peak 21ppg level was kidding themselves and not reading his resume properly.

    Gasol, he is an average 18 ppg guy over his career. He had a 17.4ppg year last year which is a bit down on his average. He could decline some more or be prone to age related missed games and under a system that was failing him the last 2 years in LAL. Don't expect him to put up 20 ppg regularly, nor expect him to fall to Boozer numbers which fell as low as 13ppg last season. He is in the middle of that, and is better than Boozer no matter how you look at it. He also signed for less-than-half the contract value Chicago was paying Boozer allowing the team to be competitive. We also know he is 34 years old when we sign him to a 3 year deal.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    In the summer of 2010, he was coming off of a 20 & 11 season and was viewed as a top 15 if not top 10 player. While I do think K Love is better, there are a lot of similarities to him and a young Booz.

  • In reply to muckfiami:

    Again, only a blind man ever considered boozer a top 10 player, and he wasn't anywhere near the top 15 in 2010. If you recall Utah couldn't wait to get rid of him.

  • I don't think Love is a good fit for the Bulls. We don't need another white non-attletic dude, where I think Mirotic will likely be Love in a couple years. We will be better off the way we are now. I hope Cavs get Love and dump their future superstar in Wiggins, who I think is going to have a huge impact on defense this year. I also hope Cavs take back bad contracts along which will limit them to add talents in the future. Bulls will eat them alive on D and will rain 3's all over with the depth we have.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    Couldn't agree more!

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    Yes, I love the anti-big 3 movement of the Spurs...

    Love and LeBron and Irving would absorb so much salary that it will be hard to build around them. I secretly hope Love goes to CLE and fails and LeBron never wins in CLE. And, Wiggins is awesome in Minn!

    That would be the ultimate kick in the nutz for the City of Cleveland. If LeBron let's them down again, wow... could be interesting.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Love, LeBron and Irving would be downright scary. I think the three of them would be a better "Big 3" than the Miami "Big 3."

    You have LeBron who is the best player in the game, entering his physical and basketball prime (29-32). He's won championships now, added a post game, is unstoppable in the lane, and is driven to win for his home town while also winning his 3rd.

    You have Kevin Love, 25 y/o All-Star, double-double machine who can is a better stretch 4 than Bosh, a better pick and pop player than Bosh, and itching to be in the playoffs and contend for a title. While Love is not a great defender, he rebounds better than Bosh and can play back to the basket and face up.

    You have Kyrie Irving, 22 y/o All-Star, can play inside-out, can run the offense, and has enormous untapped potential. Irving, in 3 years, could be the best PG in the NBA. While Wade is more accomplished, Irving could easily fill in Wade's shoes.

    Then the Cavs have Varejao on a 1 year deal but he's a Cavs lifer who will probably re-up in a MLE next season. Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters on rookie contracts. Veterans Mike Miller, James Jones and possibly Ray Allen coming in. At least 2 First round picks. Plus many veterans who will take the minimum and come to Cleveland to play with LBJ this time around.

    If you're the Bulls and you have to go up against this buzzsaw every year for the next 5 years, its going to be a long, hard road to ever win a championship. I'm not saying that the Cavs win a title next season but this young, hungry team is only going to get better and in 2-3 years, they will be the ECF champ every year.

    The Spurs can't last forever and the Stars formula over the Spurs formula is still the best and most consistent way to contend for a championship every year and the Cavs would be just that every year.

  • In reply to ripiceman:

    He is not entering his physical prime, he just passed thru it.

  • In reply to Granby:

    That would be the hope, although reality usually bites for Bulls fans, at since 1998.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    I would love to trade Noah + several picks and take back Martin. I love Noah, but his age and his lack of offense make him slightly over-rated in my mind. The intangibles will be tough to lose, but Gibson and Butler will bring the toughness. And, Rose is pretty intense.

    I hate to throw in Mirotic because of his age and upside and the fact that his salary could be a bargain if he is as good as advertised. That's why I would offer 2 future Chicago picks and the Sactown pick.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Bulls would still have depth in this scenario and if you have depth, you can just resign your guys and stay under the luxury tax, which the bulls are not currently in - and the tax line should be going up in 2 yrs.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    I think he's an excellent fit for the Bulls. He's a big-time scorer, isn't that what we need? He's a dynamic offensive player, any idea that "he only shoots threes" is nonsense, you don't average 26 ppg shooting nothing but threes. His lack of defense would be masked on a strong defensive team like the Bulls. I like what I've seen of Mirotic but I don't project him as a top-10 NBA player.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    If you have to give up Butler + Taj, I question how strong your DEFENSIVE TEAM really is. Noah cant do it by himself.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    do we need another black unathletic dude, or maybe there aren't any of those.

  • I would make the trade to turn Noah + Mirotic into Love. I have too much respect for Noah to dwell too long on his iffy showing against Nene in the playoffs (he was hurt and it's really too much to expect your big man to be the guy making things happen from the top of the circle in playoff basketball). It's about getting to the top of the Eastern Conference and ultimately hoisting a trophy and 26 and 12, 25-year-old KLove can get you further down that path than Noah can.

    A major problem with this roster wasn't upgraded in the off-season. This team doesn't have enough two dimensional players. Lance would have been one. Gasol has aged out of his defensive prowess, Mirotic seems to have been terrible in Europe at that end of the floor, and Doug Mc isn't projected to be even a league-average defender. You can get away with it when you're adding a guy like Melo or KLove whose other abilities place them at the top of the league. It's hard to have and maximize your best lineup with so many guys who can only do one thing, even if they do it really well. It's easier to guard for the opposing team.

  • My fear is that the Spurs' win will set the Bulls back the way the Pistons did. Winning in the NBA has always been about having superstars, the team with more star power wins. But there are exceptions like the '04 Pistons and now last year's Spurs team that make people think you don't need superstars. I believe Paxson referred to those Pistons teams while building the Bulls, but I don't get it because he himself was a part of champion teams that won by leading the league in superstar power. It's like he forgets what he was part of. He also seems to think those teams were all about defense when in fact they were outstanding offensively as well.

    Anyways, for a while there were NBA executives and fans saying "be like the Pistons" but since then, superstar teams have ruled like they always have. Now after last year's Spurs' win, fans are saying "We don't need more superstars. See the Spurs," and going so far as to say, "No, let's not trade role players and prospects for a superstar." What???

    You don't try to follow the exceptions. You try to follow the rule. Get a superstar, whatever it takes.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    When you look at the recent championship teams excluding the Spurs and Pistons, their superstars dominate the league. Love is not as good as his numbers suggest. By simply adding Love for Gibson+Butler+McDermott will not make the Bulls better off. You will also rely on adding role players like Ray Allen when they would have better options elsewhere.

    Of course you need stars to win. The Bulls championship teams are not good examples because they had the GOAT. We wouldn't be adding Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan.

    We needed another quality big going into this offseason, we got that in Gasol. PF/C is our position of strength now. Why would you try to improve that further by making our weakest position (SG) even weaker.

  • Perfectly stated Roman!

  • I almost prefer to ditch Noah + Mirotic instead of Gibson + Butler + Mirotic.

    Gibson is turning into a phenomenal 2-way player and his deal is a bargain for 3 more years.

    Butler's best 4 years are ahead of him, IMO. His D is amazing. His offense can improve. I think he can be signed for 4/$20 or in that neighborhood if Ariza got 4/$32

    Noah is tough to give up because of the intangibles. His D is slightly over-rated in that he is not a rim protector. It's his mobility that is key in D. His offense is a liability and his passing will be ness critical with Rose back and Gasol and Love are great passing bigs, too. He is going on 30 and he may want a bigger deal in 2 years. Like Deng, I just do not consider him an all-star.

    Hate to lose Mirotic. But, Love is better and Martin provides such a need for the Bulls. Martin's contract is not a killer with the new CBA in 2 years... so that 3rd year may be less impactful.

  • In reply to Granby:

    You think Butler would sign 4 years for $20 million. I think not. But we'll just have to see.

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    4/$24 mil? That's $6 mil and I don't think he can expect much more unless he straightens out that shot... so if he'd like to play it out, he could get Ariza money. However, Snell, Dunleavy and McDermott could pressure his minutes if his offensive production does not improve.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Noah had the NBA's #1 personal defensive rating last seaons, 95.7 or something like that, and that number almost assuredly understates his defensive presence, given that it probably doesn't factor in carrying around a 265 lb sack of potato shit for half his time on the floor.

  • C'mon Doug, you can talk me into accepting yesterday's proposal since we won't lose a single starter and get Love but trading Joakim for him is nonsense.
    Noah was number 3 on MVP voting last year, has 2 NCAA championship and has been in the playoffs for all his career. He is a difference maker (basketball and intangible-wise) and the biggest reason the Bulls got the 4 seed without Rose and Deng.
    By the way, compare last year's Bulls' and Wolves' rosters. Give me a single position the Bulls were clearly better.
    Don't misunderstand me, i like Love as a player. He is a star and put great numbers but to give up Noah, you got to prove me first he impacts winning. He may not be the only one to blame for not making the playoffs once since he entered the league but he got some of it on him too.

  • If you're Minnesota how do you not take Andrew Wiggins? If Wiggins becomes a star or superstar and you instead trade for Jo or Taj and Mirotic and continue to flounder in the loaded West? Sam Bowie II. It's suicide.

    Plus I have some doubts Gar/Pax would trade Noah for Love. Myself I would, but those guys.. I don't know. More likely Bulls will hope Derrick "returns" as in stays healthy. If so, then "lottery top five to ten" seasoned player in Mirotic needs to be a very good offensive player. Especially if the Bulls continue on without a SG/second driver. If McD turns out to be a starting caliber offensive SF along with excellent offense/near all-star in Mirotic, then yes Bulls could run a Spur's type offense without a true SG.

    I just wonder if Nikola is going to need time on the court to blossom by year's end, but by initially not looking ready, with the plethora of bigs he doesn't get that opportunity. What if Taj has another banner year? Will Miro's coming game shine through and a Taj trade nets that legit SG? Will be a nice dilemma to have should the two newcomers prove potent offensive talents which is not a given. Nor is Derrick's healthy return to the NBA.

  • A couple of interesting points brought up today:

    1. Is Love really that good? Is he really a superstar? I think he is but it's clear that some don't. I've read someone say he can single-handedly dominate a game, that sounds like a superstar to me. I sometimes read that Gasol's numbers were inflated because he was the only NBA player on his team. Wouldn't the same be true for Love?

    2. How important is defense vs. offense? Is a good defensive player worth as much as a good offensive player? It's clear that many folks here value offense over defense but others think they're two sides of the coin and roughly equal in importance. Are they? I tend to think offense is more important, I guess I think you can't stop good scorers from scoring no matter how good your defense is, while scoring has proven to be a challenge for the Bulls.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Roman:
    1. About Love, no one knows if he is truly a superstar. If you believe he is, then i guess it's ok trading Noah for him. The thing is his numbers shout superstar, his record doesn't. Everyone here seems to believe the path to a championship is through superstars and that the spurs and the pistons were exceptions, and i agree. The stars on these championship teams, though, were almost all two way players (even the Shaqs and Boshs of the world, at least, were athletic enough to play some dominant defensive possessions every now and then, when it mattered the most - playoffs). I don't see it in Love. Maybe i'm wrong. We'll see it soon enough since he will certainly get traded to a playoff team.
    2. I tend to agree on the offense argument though and we all saw that a offensive challenged team can only get you so far in the playoffs. My thing here is I think the bulls improved a lot this offseason and we still have room for a lot more of "within" improvement over the next 2 or 3 seasons (of course the ultimate jump depends on Rose's health). I think people tend to underestimate Joakim offensive game too because he is not a scorer. He is a good, improved shooter, great screener and excelent playmaker. Our problem last year was not Noah's lack of offensive skills but the lack of shooters and above-average offensive players on the entire roster.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    1. He's not a superstar - only LeBron and Durant are (with maybe Davis joining them soon). But he's solidly in the next tier. If his numbers are inflated then I don't really care - Minny had the best offense in the league with him on the floor and an offense like the Bulls had with him off it. He can come inflate stats for the Bulls any day if he can make them a top 5 offense.

    2. If you're starting with an average team then they're equally important. The Bulls aren't starting with an average team, they're starting with the 2nd ranked defense and the 28th ranked offense. Offense is more important for them. If the situation was reversed I'd be saying defense was more important to acquire.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Yeah I agree, you have to be good at both. If you're the #1 defense, you can get away with a little worse offense and vice versa.

  • I would do Noah/Mirotic and two #1's for Love. Taj plus Gasol can man the center position for the next 2-3 years. I like the current Bulls team, but I am worried about their ability to compete with teams like Cleveland, Indiana, Washington, who have big, athletic wings who can trap and attack Rose in the playoffs. Love is a great second option who can get tough buckets down the stretch in the post or be an incredible pick and roll partner for Rose. The offense would become so much more dynamic and fun to watch. MN could plug Mirotic into the starting lineup and trade Noah to a contender for a ton of young talent and picks. MN may realize that building around a 19 year old superstar like Wiggins is a bad idea for a team like MN where the stars will not re-sign. Wiggins will just be hitting his prime when his contract is up. They are a team that should follow the Spurs model, and put Peckovic, Mirotic, Rubio as a good core to add talent around through the draft and trades. This is all idle speculation because Cleveland will get him. Maybe the Bulls are just trying to get Cleveland to give up more assets and weaken their long term plan.

  • I'm as big of a Noah fan as there is but, I'd have to include Noah(who turns 30 during the next season), especially now that we have Gasol to at least occupy the center position. However, I don't see where Noah and Mirotic is as sexy as Wiggins in the short term, nor as good a move basketball wise in the long term.

  • I've been a Bull's fan for a long time since they first started as a team, and when I read here what you all think of the players we have now--I almost want to give up being a Chicago fan, period reading what you all think here. Where is the loyalty for the sweat and inspired play this current team has achieved during the last few years; and what about the new guys coming here--don't they deserve a chance to be great players or part of a winning team? You all just reduce the value of the whole team for a player whose team has never won anything and who does not play defense--does that make any sense?
    If the Bulls trade Gibson, Noah, Butler, Mirotic, or even McDermott I will never watch another Bulls game--win or lose. If the Chicago FO does anything like that they deserve to lose and I don't mean just games--I mean the total value of the team. Love may be a potential great player, but he is only one guy and that does not spell team --nor does it mean a Chicago championship.
    We have a defensive oriented coach--with the loss of so many key players--the Bulls could never recover to where they have risen in the NBA--and no player would ever want to be a Bull. The coach may even quit.

  • In reply to penwit1:

    I pretty much agree with the majority of what penwit1 has stated. JoNo has to be considered as 1 of the franchise's greatest dedicated players ever; he bleeds & represents what the city of Chicago means throughout his play & his mentality, not to also mention that he went out of his way to recruit better players (and Rose's lazy stuck up "I get paid the max & I haven't barely played in 2 years, but I won't get off my azz & recruit better talent because it's not my job" selfish azz would get to remain here. IDGAF that Derrick's from Chicago, Jo deserves to be a life long bull with Taj being a close 2nd too.

  • Doug- SO appreciative of your labors. You are awesome.

    This Conspiracy Theory DOES makes some sense to me- I wouldnt be surprised if there was a level of agreement with Bucks BEFORE Lebron announced return to Cleveland. He's pretty savvy. And I agree, after he opted out, it increasingly dawned on him that Cleveland gave him a better chance to win than Miami going forward. He had a couple days to craft and edit that letter with Jenkins. So it's not an oversight to omit mention of Wiggins and Bennett. I mean come on... excited about playing with Tristan and not mention Wiggins??? He met with Gilbert for 4 hours... I bet they talked about bringing in Love. And the Bucks already in play with some sort of arrangement/agreement. It's hush hush because of the PR nightmare for LeBron.. only coming to Cleveland because of a newer, better Big Three. And instead, a cleverly written and touching letter written FOR him btw.. and a week later polls showing him the most loved athlete in America. That letter was well crafted and edited..and no mention of Wiggins? A player with "SO MUCH POTENTIAL" supposedly that people are crying foul of trading him for Love?? To me it's possible the Cleveland trade for Love is already a done deal. The initial "we wont trade Wiggins" was posturing and subterfuge.

  • Although maybe the Bucks can pull a Boozer and still back out. It's not written in stone. Or maybe they are just blackmailing Cleveland for a tad more value in the trade by floating the Chicago stuff. Though I suppose Chicago could (and likely) be proposing a legitimate trade, unaware of the pre-LeBron-return verbal deal with the Bucks.

  • In reply to NorCalChibaby:

    woops. I kept referring to Bucks. I meant T Wolves of course

  • This Bulls team can win between 55-62 games right now with the roster they have now.............if we trade 3 main Bulls pieces for Love, will that be enough to beat any team in the West in the Finals?

    I say our Bulls are deep enough to win.....lets not toss half a team away for one guy. .....where will the Bulls be at if Love missed a season due to injuries!

  • In the absolutely insane scenario that Minny passes on Wiggins for the Bulls offer they'll almost certainly want McDermott.

  • The bulls have no shot at Love. Drive up the price for him. I like what we have and I can't wait for the season to start. We are deep as 2011. Only this time there's not a big 3 regardless if the Cavs get Love. McBuckets and Mirotic are the future, why not enjoy it for the next 10 years. Rose will be good if not great. The future is bright. I would love to get Love but we don't have the assets.

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    When you look at the intangibles a player brings to a team, I'd take Noah's heart and motor over Love's points any day of the week! This guy (Noah) is all in and leaves nothing on the table when he's done. He motivates and gets in players faces and doesn't back down. He's a general and Love is a sergeant at best! The timber wolves have enough talent on that team to make the playoffs (Rubio, Pekovic, Matin, Budinger, Brewer, Barea, Turiaf, and Love) and if Noah were on that team, he'd motivate his team to play better every night! Remove Love and add Noah to that bunch (eastern or western conference) and they make the playoffs. Strong leadership is so important and you don't take that away from these Bulls at this stage in the game! It would be like replacing a V8 engine with a 4 cylinder economy gas saver; sure you get better miles to the gallon, but where's the power? I put Noah in the same class as Morning, Garnett, and Rodman when it comes to holding his team accountable and Love doesn't give you that! Every championship team has it and needs it, and good GM's don't trade it at it's peak! With the pieces we have in place right now, no way I make that deal.

  • Would you trade Mirotic, McDermott and Gibson/Noah for Wiggins and Bennett?

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    In reply to piggy7:

    NOPE! These 4 guys together can do a lot more than those 2! I'd consider trading Mirotic and McDermott, and possibly throw in Nazi Mohammad and someone like James Johnson (if we had him) for Wiggins and Bennett.

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