Pelicans make eyepoppingly stupid move, take on Asik for cap room

The New Orleans Pelicans traded what appears to be a non protected (or minimally protected) 1st round pick for the final year of Omer Asik's deal.

Houston can now trivially trade Jeremy Lin to open up max cap room to make a run at Carmelo Anthony or LeBron James and complete their super team. Quite honestly, I'd say the odds of landing Carmelo Anthony for the Bulls simply went to zero. There's no way if I'm Melo I even consider Chicago at this juncture as Houston is simply a much better team.

The move seems puzzling to me as a Pelicans fan. Yes, it teams up Davis with Asik, perhaps the two will make a good combination if you feel that Davis can play on the perimeter enough to make it work (I'm not sure I'd agree with that or want that), but I can't imagine there was a big fight for Omer Asik on a one year deal in the trade market.

You're paying 15 million for his one year of service and give up a potential lottery pick to do it? The pick reportedly has Lowry like protection where it stays in New Orleans if it's a top three or worse than 20, but goes to Houston otherwise. Asik can walk away as an unrestricted free agent the following year especially given he's no guarantee to start with Ryan Anderson naturally complementing Davis better. On top of that, there were likely few (and possibly no) other suitors willing to give up cap room to get Asik.

Classic mismanagement move by the Pelicans and a brilliant play by the Rockets.

For those saying this puts the nail in the coffin of whether the Asik move was a mistake or not, it's worth noting the trade couldn't happen with the Bulls 15 million dollar cap number if they matched as the Pelicans wouldn't have enough space to absorb the contract.

The move is a big blow to Bulls fans on draft day, as our odds of Carmelo Anthony might no hinge on LeBron going to Houston instead of Miami leaving Melo looking for a new situation. I'd say that's a small shot, but it's actually probably LeBron's best shot at establishing a dominant team again. I don't think he'll do it, but I suppose it wouldn't be shocking.

Knicks move Chandler and Felton for Calderon and Dalembart

In a move which may hasten Carmelo's New York exit, the Knicks looked to save some money. Phil Jackson did his best Gar Forman impression discussing the flexibility the Knicks would get with the deal. They bring back Jose Calderon and save about 10 million assuming they waive the non guaranteed Dalembart, but they wouldn't be under the cap if they bring back Anthony (his cap hold prevents them from using the space then signing him), so the move really has no practical implications of flexibility savings if Anthony stays.

If Anthony leaves, the Knicks will have a little bit of cap room, but depending what they do with their non guaranteed players that room will max out in the seven million dollar range which isn't real exciting.

What the move really does is clears Felton's cap number off the books one year earlier allowing the Knicks to have a shade more flexibility next off-season to bring in free agents. It also, to me, signals that Melo is out of New York, New York knows it and might consider a S&T scenario. If that's the case, the Bulls sending Boozer to the Knicks might become a possibility, but with the Rockets deal to open up cap room, I find it unlikely Melo wants to land in Chicago.

Maybe there's something to be said for staying in the East where the conference is clearly inferior, but there's a lot more to be said about relying on Derrick Rose to stay healthy. No way is his best interest here anymore.

Kevin Love or bust

One guy who probably would still put Chicago in his top two choices for destinations is Kevin Love. Love's a better fit for the Bulls than Anthony anyway, the guy Derrick Rose prefers (not that I'm concerned with it, but hey added bonus), and the younger and better (my opinion) of the two players.

It remains to be seen if the Timberwolves will trade Love, but given the Bulls odds at Melo just took a nose dive, I'd say they should be even more incentivized to do so. If they can't get Love, it's looking like a "use your draft picks, bring over Mirotic, resign Augustin and hope for the best" off-season.

My current fall back plan (as if I could predict who will be there at 16/19) would be to take Hood and Payne. Add them and Mirotic to the roster while retaining Kirk and Augustin, and the Bulls suddenly have five good three point shooters on the team along with plenty of depth up and down the roster.

I'd not call that a massive off-season win, as the Bulls won't have solved their problem of being 100% reliant on Derrick Rose's knees, but if Rose can stay healthy he'd have a team that could give him a whole ton of room to operate on the court.

Let's hope for Kevin Love.

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  • I believe that someone is using Bulls same as 2010 Miami Fiasco. Better use the picks wisely. Choose those who can contribute instantly. Thibs must be open for change.

  • Love reminds me of shareef abdur-rahim, good stats, good player, bad teams. Think boozer with a 3 point shot. His contract demands are to high for his game. I don't think his stats translate on a winning team. No way I'm trading Taj for klove, he's our best 2 way player. Tired of the bipolar evaluation, bulls seem to focus on offensive or defensive type players. Bring over Mirotic, draft Gary Harris, roll the dice on P.J. Harrison for the second pick. Two players with the gift to fill the net & ability to play D.

  • In reply to GarJR:

    You make way too many good points to be Gar Jr I am calling BS!

    Maybe if you started spouting stupid crap like bringing Captain Klank back to be our starting SG or trading both picks to move up and draft Adam Morrison 2.0 (Doug McDermott) then I could believe you.

    Sorry Doug but their is no way Kevin Love is the superior fit for our team over Anthony! Love doesn't take people off the dribble to the hole only way that happens is if Rubio hits him on a roll. Anthony is an elite iso scorer who can drive and kick which is what we need since nobody can create a shot on our team so having a ball hog who can score is the perfect fit. With Love Gar Jr is correct he is Boozer with three point range.

  • I agree. Melo is gone. It is now up to Love. He is younger, can shoot the 3 and rebounds. If we draft well and get him and Rose stays healthy we could be one of the top 2 teams in the east if Melo goes to Hst.

    I wanted Melo, but Love is a close second.

  • Well, it's going to be a tough call between Dallas, Houston and Chicago.

    I think Chandler going back to Dallas makes Dallas a better landing spot for Melo.

    Also, Houston now has tons of cap space and they should be able to dump Lin with the pick they just got for Asik.

    Still, Houston has plenty of O and needs D so adding Melo does not help them all that much IMO. (As opposed to the Bulls who simply can not score!)

    And, Houston is in the much tougher West and got bounced in the first round by Portland. Does Melo add so much that they can overcome Western powers like the Spurs, Clips and OKC - and then get through a team like Miami in the finals?

    Aside from the Eastern conference, Chicago has Noah and Thibs and Melo is a fan of both. And, Gibson and Butler - who will allow Melo to focus on offense. Finally, if Rose is healthy and wowing people with his game right now, that could put Chicago over the top. (You know the Bulls will show Melo recent tape of Rose when they meet, as if he has not seen it already.)

  • In reply to Granby:

    They only have tons of cap space after they dump Lin, not before.

  • In reply to Granby:

    I couldn't agree more with all of your points Granby. Carmelo gets to play the role of dominant scorer and that role only if he comes to the Bulls. He can be hid on defense if we keep Taj & Jimmy and focus his efforts on the offensive end (which is the way he's played his entire NBA career). while going to Houston means playing with Harden which now makes Melo arguably the best perimeter defender on the team. with him and Harden on the court together he will have to guard the other team's best scorer on the wing. Houston's problem last year wasn't scoring. It was defense. Not really a good fit for Melo, and I think he knows that

    The biggest threat IMO is the Miami Heat shipping away Bosh. I just have this feeling that these guys already know where there going and are just toying with us 2010 style. It makes sense for all 3 guys (Wade, Melo & Bron).

    Biggest disappointment IMO was losing Aflalo. He could've really helped us and at a low enough cost figure for our team to be ridiculously deep (*cough* Spurs-like). The cost that Denver got him at leaves a bad taste in my mouth as a Bulls fan and if we don't land Melo I think we will look back on this as a big, big mistake.

  • And, I'm not so sure Houston is better than Chicago IF ROSE IS HEALTHY... if Melo picks Chicago and opts for a sign and trade, can't the Bulls just send various picks and Dunleavy, Snell and Boozer to NY? Why would NY not cooperate in a deal like that to at least get the picks?

    This also brings Mirotic over now and the Bulls roster suddenly looks VERY attractive and depth is there.

    Cleveland and Toronto got late first round picks from Miami back in 2010 for LeBron and Bosh....

  • Don't forget that playing for the rockets means living in houston. the city anthony chooses to sign with will likely be the city where his kids grow up and his legacy is built. NY and Chicago are the clear winners there. Houston is the best bet from a bball perspective, becuase Harden and Howard are still relatively young and the team will have a 4-5 year window to win and add pieces. But that is a big 3 of guys who want the ball in their hands. I think the biggest draws for Chicago are Noah, Thibs and the city. Carmelo belongs on a defensive team that needs a high volume scorer. If Rose is healthy, then great, but if not, Melo can win with the team we had last year.

  • Every once in a while you see a team get fleeced but it's never the Bulls who get in on the fleecing (at least they're never the ones getting fleeced either). Very impressed with what the Rockets FO has done in recent years.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Foolish GMs have helped make other teams champions. Like when the T'wolves traded Garnett to the Celtics. It is hard to see what the Pelicans' FO was thinking. I wonder what, if anything, went on under the table for some of these deals to happen.

    The rest of the day and tonight should be interesting.

    Would you take Dario Saric if he is available at #16? I would.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    That #16 pick is actually the result of trading Tyrus Thomas, so I take it back that the Bulls never do the fleecing. I would prefer Harris or Stauskas or Payton, but if they're off the board and Saric is there, I'd be happy to have him.

  • To tell the truth I'm hoping and got my fingers crossed we don't get Kevin Love. I still think a front Court of Taj, Noah, and Mirotic is strong enough. I've seen enough of Mirotics game that I'm sold. So as far as the Front court goes we're already set, I just think we need a big body back up center that can play some D and take some fouls. I'm also still confident that Rose can bounce back this year. Maybe not MVP level but I think by playoff time he could be back to at least allstar level. I'm praying we get Melo because that move would make us instant contenders but my biggest fear would be the Bulls try and bring Deng back and that would suck. lol

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    I hope when the season starts the Bulls make a point to beat the breaks off of the Pelicans.

  • I would love to see Carmelo joining the Bulls, but Rockets has already 2 studs to lure Carmelo and likely will be able to offer more money than the Bulls. We have one that we don't even know if he is coming back at the same level he used to be before the knee injuries. We need superstars to content for titles in this league, so our next hope is to score on our drafts, as I don't think neither Melo nor Love will join the Bulls. So if no Melo, forget about 2014 and move on to 2020 plan.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    Well, I feel more positive than that for the Bulls. Suppose that Rose is healthy, Mirotic comes over, and the Bulls draft a decent SG. That team is likely the 2nd seed in the East next year. If they can swing the trade for Afflalo, they will be even better.

    If they also draft Saric, he should come in for the start of 2016-2017 and be very good. Plus, don't forget, next draft they can swap picks with Cleveland and likely get the Kings 1st round pick. So there is a lot of potential.

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    In reply to rustyw:

    Great idea, but Afflalo is already gone. Wonder if bulls were at least trying to get him. Not like Orlando made out like bandits w Evan Fournier

  • In reply to Jim Odirakallumkal:

    Hadn't yet heard about that, supposedly, they went after Afflalo to add to a package for Love. Doesn't seem like much of a haul for Afflalo.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    Not sure that the Rockets can offer more money, Howard, Hardin and Scola make more than Rose, Noah and Taj. Plus Houston supposedly wants to retain Parsons.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Scola is on the Pacers now...Once Lin is gone and Houston gets rid of their non-guaranteeds and other roster maintenance theyll have about $15-$17MM in cap room (until someone signs Chandler Parsons to an offer sheet).

  • Although some posters here have denigrated Morey (Rockets GM) I really believe he displays somewhat of a genius in the way he operates. Although some may take issue with the players he targets (e.g. Lin) the fact is he uses extraordinary guile in achieving his objective once he identifies the target. He finds a way to outmaneuver the competition and has made the Rockets a legitimate threat in just the last couple of years. This last maneuver with Asik confirms this.

    There has been speculation that Morey is working on a some sort of S&T deal with the Knicks where Harden will go to NY for Carmelo. This will be a win/win/win for The Knicks, the Rockets and Melo. The Knicks get a young star to build around, the Rockets get Melo, and Melo gets the big payday. And the kicker is that Houston could still maneuver to create space for Lebron, according to what I have read, using Melo and Howard as the bait.

    For a terrific read on how Ferry in Atlanta can maneuver to have enough cap space to sign both Lebron and Carmelo go to an article I read today at SheridanHoops. Basically it says that by trading Teague and Milsap for picks, they can have a starting lineup of Horford, Lebron, Melo, Korver, and Napier. It really looks very doable as Teague and Milsap are good young players on reasonable deals that would be attractive to other teams.

    Hopefully Paxson will study how other FOs use intelligence and guile to keep ahead of the competition. Strangling your coach does not get you rings nor does going after players like Viktor Khryapa.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Well said.

    If you compare the Rockets' 2011 roster vs. last year's it's pretty amazing what Morey has done. So much for Asik's "untradeable" contract!

  • In reply to JPesos1230:

    Some of us never thought that it was all that untradeable, and apparently we were right(again).

  • Doug WHAT ARE YOU talking about? Everyone knew the Rockets were going to trade Asik - this is not news to anyone. Let's see if they can now move Lin, which should prove to be a much tougher proposition.

    Also, Melo has made no indication that he wants to live in Houston, or play in the Western Conference. If anything this trade HELPS the Bulls as it creates a sense of urgency for NY to engage in S&T talks to prevent losing Melo for nothing. Unless Houston is willing to trade Harden for Melo (only if they sign LeBron for the max) I see this as a net positive for Chicago.

    We went this route in 2010 and it didn't work - no need to sell off assets until you have a commitment. The Bulls could dump Gibson today without breaking a sweat, but they hope NY is willing to engage in a S&T allowing us to move young assets (draft picks and Mirotic) for Melo.

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    Nice, a voice of reason

  • I was never really sold on Melo. Let's be clear...he's talented enough where I don't HAVE to be sold on him. But I just wasn't.

    Right free agent target would be Afflalo. See if we can get him from the Magic for an expiring and maybe a 2nd rounder...bring over Mrotic and draft Hood and Payne. That gives us the stretch we were praying we got with Murphy via Payne and Mrotic....a solid starting SG in Afflalo and an understudy in Hood....D Rose can be backed by DJ and Cap'n....

    That's the San Antonio Model and its proven effective. I'm confident D Rose will be around for a bit. He's still young and he's been taking his return cautiously so that he DOESN'T have another missed season.

    I still think we are in the thick of the things come playoffs if that goes down...which is looking more and more likely as time moves on.

  • Also, if Houston wants to play hard ball then play it back at them. Parsons is a RFA - amnesty Boozer on 7/1 and offer Parsons $12M right away.....force Houston to make a decision to match or risk losing Parsons for nothing. If they match Melo cannot sign, if they decide to let him walk then we get a very good wing player in Parsons. Be proactive, not reactive, if you want to succeed in the NBA.

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    The thing is that it ties up our cap too and Houston can do a S&T with the Knicks and send back Harden. That's the trump card, they have the better player to send back and they (NYK) can dangle Harden to Durant when he's a FA in a couple of seasons. We may get stuck with Chandler Parsons, who is a nice player but not a $12MM/year player. Houston can then have Melo and Howard pitch LeBron on an even better big 3 and we are out in the cold. I like the effort though because I have no proactive scenario to offer.

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    Interesting thought, somebody(not the Bulls) will probably put a nice offer on the table for Parsons like that. Houston will have no choice but to pass.

  • Think of all the Melo scenario crunching that has gone into this forum and countless Melo to Bulls media stories, then Asik to New Orleans and poof!? Chickens coming home to roost, again. Absolutely the most ridiculous dynamic I've read this year, and with the world we live in that is an amazing feat. 'Never believe what you read', is not even close to strong enough words.

  • In reply to 4zen:

    Houston had to make this trade - this is not news to anyone other than the panicked Bulls fans. Like everything else in life, it's going to come down to the Bulls selling themselves as the best franchise, city, core players and coaching.....sell yourself, this was never going to be a slam dunk easy maneuver.

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    Your missing the irony of my post, 'slam dunk easy maneuver' is hyperbole that minimizes the facts.

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    Exactly, as I point out in my post below.

  • If you're a Bulls fan and you're starting get that "getting left at the altar" feeling - its because that is probably what is going to happen.

    It is so clear to me the Bulls FO are not in the category of some of the upper echelon FO's in the NBA. They're not bad or dumb but there is no brilliance or forward thinking to them. There's no gutsy, ballsy action. I have so much respect for Daryl Morey. He's brash and outspoken (not things I like in my GM) but he goes big and bold and isn't scared of striking out. You can see the Rockets lining up as a great landing spot for James or Anthony and they probably could do both if they move Harden.

    Simply put, the Bulls FO biggest mistake is continuing to depend on the Free Agency market and hoping players choose them. Its like playing kickball and you not being one of the captains. The obvious move here is to take the "Bull by the horns" and make things happen and that can only happen with trades. Kevin Love is clearly the right move that gets the Bulls closer to a championship and if Anthony and James still want to come, then move Noah to do it. Instead the Bulls are lowballing the TWolves, may be blowing their 2014 picks (including fabled Charlotte pick) with hope that Anthony comes here.

    Unless the Bulls have back channel promises from Anthony, the Bulls need to go out and get it and not wait for it to happen to them. It seems that they've built their entire team on having guys come to them (via draft), its time to go and get what you want. If that means breaking up the beloved Core, DO IT. If that means Gibson, Butler, and #16 and #19 for Love, then go do it. If they want Gibson, Butler, Mirotic - swallow hard and do it. It makes you better and your championship window is not staying open very long with Noah almost 30 and Derrick in his make it or break it year.

  • In reply to ripiceman:

    I agree that the Bulls should do what it takes to get Kevin Love. Unfortunately most or many posters disagree with this. If Love is a chubby pre-decline Boozer that shoots threes you have aright to your views. Me, I'll take the 25ppg 45% shooter 12 rebs pg who nails volume threes at 37%. Plus, he seems like a decent guy to me and not a jerk which a lot of stars sort of are so that's important as well.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    While I essentially agree with your premise, giving up both Taj and Mirotic in addition to 3 other first rounders will be very hard to swallow and leave the roster awfully bare.

  • In reply to ripiceman:

    They can't get both Lebron and Anthony even if they move Hardin without one or both of them taking a paycut of a few million bucks. and I am in agreement with those who think that James and Anthony on the same team just doesn't make basketball sense, neither guy wants to be a full time power forward.

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    Let me apply the positive spin: If the Rockets and Mavs can sign Melo straight-up, wouldn't this further incentivize the Knicks to agree to an S&T involving Boozer where they'd also get back some combination of draft picks and Mirotic?

    I like Love, but I actually feel Melo would be the better fit for this team if we can keep Taj. I also think that the Bulls are a significantly better fit for Melo than Houston from a personnel standpoint and I think Melo is smart enough to see that.

    Last thing, I recall hearing that Dwight Howard is not that well-respected by the top echelon of stars in the league going back to their USA experiences. They feel he does not take the game serious enough. Just a small aside but possibly a factor here.

  • In reply to TommyO:

    100% yes - this creates URGENCY for NY to engage in S&T talks.

  • Afflalo just got traded to Denver for Evan Fournier and a 2nd rounder.

  • In reply to nolebron:

    Yep, that's terrible for Bulls. Who is our SG for next season? And don't tell me Jimmy Butler or Tony Snell.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Can't believe that we couldn't do better than Evan Fournier and a 2nd rounder. I suppose that Fournier is better than Snell, but how much I couldn't tell you.

  • Pretty confident Minny accepts: Gibson, Snell, Boozer, Dunleavy, both 2014 1st round picks, future Sacramento Pick and the rights to Mirotic for Love, Corey Brewer and Kevin Martin.......up the offer today if you don't think Melo is coming to Chicago. Just don't sit on your hands and 'hope' they choose Chicago.....

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    Pretty sure they'd accept Noah and Rose too.

  • I really don't see the angst about Asik being traded to the Pelicans as somehow proof that Melo is now definitely going to the Rockets instead of the Bulls. It just doesn't make sense. You are assuming the big 3 model works for any 3 you put together. Harden, Melo, and Howard is not a good mix. Harden, unlike Dwade, is not going to be willing to give up the ball and let Melo be the stud leader on that team. Alpha dogs have to find a way to complement each other and they need a coach that can manage that. I don't hear you addressing how great a coach Houston has who can deal with those personalities. One of those three (if Melo goes to Houston) is going to have to defer and give up shots and play a different role. I don't see Harden or Howard being at a stage in their careers where they would want to do that for Melo.

    I do think the team you should be more concerned about is Dallas. They have stars who would be willing to defer to Melo at this stage (Dirk, Tyson). Oh and they do have a defensive-minded championship coach in Carlisle. The only issue there is how much money and how Monta Ellis would fit. Although Ellis seemed to be more interested in winning than scoring this year when he joined Dallas.

    Now let's get back to the Bulls. Trading Chandler does send a message that the Knicks are rebuilding. Although the masterful stroke (despite all this love for Morey) may have come from the Zen master in dropping Felton off on Dallas. So Melo now knows if he wants to win and win now, he needs to leave. So really, what is the best fit? To me, it is the Bulls.

    Melo excels at the one thing the Bulls desperately need whether DRose comes back completely to MVP form or not and that is a major offensive threat. So no team needs Melo's skillset more than the Bulls. Also, compared to Houston, there is a better coach, better fan base, better fit with a stronger defensive team, and a better chance to get to the Finals in the Eastern conference now.

    And all these worries about Drose. Even if he comes back top form, DRose is going to defer to Melo as the big dog and that will not be a problem. And Noah, Butler, and Taj complement Melo and Drose better than any other team in the mix. Also, I think Melo respects Thibs and for Melo's legacy, he wants to be associated with being a better defender. He knows that Thibs will contribute to that. And even if Drose does not completely come back to form, the Bulls should draft contingencies that will still focus on defense while complementing Melo such as drafting Payton and signing a sniper like Paddy Mills.

    Even if this does not work out with Melo, I like the fallback plan mentioned in a couple of messages over the last couple of days. Bring Mirotic over, use the draft picks to bring in more shooters, hope DRose comes back to form and put more shooters and offense around him while still focusing on defense. I like that plan much more than getting rid of key assets like Taj and Butler just to sign Melo, which may or may not occur.

    I make the pitch to Melo as to why Chicago is the best fit for him for all the reasons stated. He needs to come and do it in a way that the team does not have to give up all its key assets to sign him. And if he doesn't want that, then go to the fallback plan and hope DRose is completely back and get some stud offensive weapons in the draft and free agency.

    Regardless, trading Asik should actually be a detriment to Melo going to Houston. Harden issued a very sincere message about missing Asik. And I saw Portland manhandle Houston in the playoffs because they had no one who could guard Aldridge. The only person who even gave them a chance on Aldridge was Howard or Asik. And adding Melo while losing Asik's defense doesn't address this problem. In fact, it makes it more likely that Howard will be in foul trouble and there will be no defense in Houston. Melo is better off with the Bulls for so many reasons as long as the Bulls don't do what Houston is doing, getting rid of key components to fill cap space. Melo has already seen what happens when you get rid of so many other pieces in the trade with Denver that he is left there with no real team. So let's wait and see. Regardless, the Bulls should be fine and if they get Melo, he will be in a place where he can really excel.

  • Urgh, the Afflalo trade is really disappointing. Bulls could have likely come up with a good offer for him that they could complete later by simply stacking non guaranteeds, Snell, a better second rounder.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yes, Bulls missing on Afflalo is truly discouraging. If GarPax can't close an Afflalo deal that was so obvious a way to plug the gaping hole at SG, just what can they close?

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I would have thought that the Magic could have received more than this. However, Fournier is just 21 years old, can shoot, and is more athletic than Stauskas (which I think is a decent comparison). This would make Fournier a lottery pick in this draft. Looking at the trade in this way makes sense if you are a rebuilding team and btw happen to have two other lottery picks tonight.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    This Afflalo trade sucks. Of all the high-profile players the Bulls could look at, Afflalo was the only one we knew for sure was being shopped around. There's a good chance Melo and Love won't even leave their current teams. Mirotic needs to become the priority now, as there is currently no one to back up Taj. I am getting very uneasy about the direction this off-season is going.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    or even a first round pick.

  • This is getting better by the minutes. Why other teams are getting better while Bulls stay pat and just watch it? This is very disappointing. We need a new FO staff with better vision. I am getting sick and tired of this BS.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    Agreed. Afflalo should have been an easy acquisition by the Bulls, if that's all the Magic was looking for. Oh well, looks like we are heading toward another season of the "we have enough to win" horseshit philosophy.

  • In reply to BullsMan:

    Horseshit philosophy = Thibs grinding the regular season to an inflated record/seed that gets quickly exposed in the playoffs.

  • Yes, we all knew that Asik was going to be dumped eventually if they move all-in on Melo. Melo, or no-Melo, it's not a bad trade for Houston since Asik did not work well with Howard and the $15 million (although only $8 million cap hit) owed next year.

    Houston is a crappy place to live. If La La has trouble considering Chicago, good luck selling her to Houston.

    And, like I said above, Melo does not make Houston dramatically better given that they are already a top offensive team and there could be headaches between Melo-Harden-Howard.

    Melo in Chicago is the #1 option.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Its the Minneapolis of the south, except instead of not being able to leave the house all winter, you can go out all summer.

  • I think i'll be pissed about the Afflalo thing if we miss out on Melo. They couldnt possibly have been able to generate the cap space needed to sign Melo outright if Afflalo was here. Now if we do a S&T, I will be slightly pissed that we missed out on Afflalo when we could have had him for an orange and a box of condoms.

  • In reply to nolebron:

    Yes, I agree. Afflalo would probably fit into the triangle nicely and why on earth wouldn't NY want him and picks in a S&T...

  • In reply to Granby:

    OK. I liked Afflalo a lot. But he was only going to be a 1-year rental for $7.5 million. If the Bulls get a decent SG in the draft, he will come on a cheaper 4-year deal, maybe averaging about $2 million per year, which will give the team a lot more financial flexibility.

    I hope they can draft Saric or even Nurkic to stash for 2 years.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    The problem is it's going to be at least 3 seasons before a drafted rookie makes any meaningful contributions in Thibs system.

  • In reply to nolebron:

    I disagree that we could have gotten Afflalo for peanuts. If you break down this trade and accept the hypothesis that Fournier is as talented a wing as Stauskas then you would have had to have beaten the Nuggets deal. IMO the deal Doug mentioned is not that appealing. The non-guarantees are an asset, but Snell is a liability, and yes the Bulls 2nd rounder is better but not that much.

    If I am the Magic GM I am weighing offers. I see Fournier as a rotation player now and possibly a starter in a year or two. I see Snell as a guy who can't even shoot .400, a weak rebounder, and hopelessly passive. I take the Nuggets deal.

  • In reply to nolebron:

    Actually since Butler is a small forward we could have traded him for Afflalo if we already knew that we had Melo. Butler has to be worth more than Fornier, but I am sure that the Bulls didn't want to give up Butler for Afflalo, if it ever got that far.

  • The Afflalo trade is just.. whatever. Somebody said Fournier was like a lottery pick in this draft. I disagree. Shoots .419 with 8ppg. Guys available now always have more luster then last year's model especially when unproven. It's hard to believe judging from this deal the Bulls couldn't have gotten Afflalo.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    That's a fair argument but Ben McLemore shot .376 last year. That's Tony Snell territory. But as a GM you look at their overall talent and potential. Fournier (and McLemore) have more talent and potential than Snell.

    I would have liked Afflalo also but you need to beat the Nuggets deal as perceived by the Magic GM. Apparently, the Bulls couldn't beat it. Don't blame the Magic, blame the Bulls. Perhaps we are saying the same thing. Could be the Bulls want to save the non-guaranteeds sand the draft picks for another deal.

  • Bulls likely trading one or both picks if you believe media reports including Chicago media. I doubt Hood is going to be there at 16. In fact, even Payne is being talked about as going before 16. I'd take Payne if available at 16 unless Hoods there. At 19 I'm sticking with Cleanthony Early and/or James Young. Good luck Bulls fans. Off to work.

  • This is not shaping out well at all. Look for the Bulls to be left at the altar again. Get ready for some classic GarPax spin when they come up empty with free agents and fail to make a viable draft day trade. Mediocrity here we come.

  • In reply to Vic Nardozza:

    We have enough to win!!!!

  • Orlando trading Affalo for Fournier tells us several things:
    1) Orlando was more interested in a good player on a rookie deal than either of Bulls picks at 16 and 19 (note: Orlando already has picks 4 and 12).
    2) Tony Snell has no trade value. Great draft pick Gar Forman! Now who can you fire (Ron Adams?) to cover up again the ramifications of your huge draft error.
    3) Bulls own pick at 19 has little trade value.

    How can Bulls acquire a SG now? To get Stauskas or Harris Bulls must trade both their draft picks for a higher pick. If that’s even possible, what picks are left for a S&T for Melo?

    Just as the horrible Snell draft pick has long lasting effects, the Bulls decision to Not Tank when Rose was injured is only now showing its effect. Imagine if Bulls had an 8-10 pick instead of their 19 pick? You don’t think that would make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in acquiring a SG or a S&T for Melo?

    Ah, but that 1-playoff-game Bulls won against Washington was worth it wasn’t it?
    Remember that through draft night and free agency. Remember it!

    The Peter Principle.
    Gar and Pax are perfect examples of rising to a level of incompetence.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Agreed. In retrospect the two acquisitions last year that most affected tonight's prospects for the Bulls were Al Jefferson and DJ Augustin. Without those two acquisitions I am sure this board would be really buzzing about the two lottery picks the Bulls would have had.

    I was a pro-tanker as well. Realistically, with Thibs as coach and Noah as team leader I am not sure how tanking could have worked even if the FO was solidly behind that strategy. Perhaps trading other assets along with Deng would have worked.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Just to add and clarify, the Bobcats pick was top 10 protected this year so if the Cats were that bad the Bulls could not have cashed in tonight.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Apparently, Charlotte offered SG Gerald Henderson and the 24th pick for Afflalo.

  • In reply to Edward:

    How the hell is that not better than what they got. Henderson has been a better NBA player so far than Fornier, and I think that the 24th pick is better than any second rounder.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I guess it just goes to show, trades aren't always about who people think is better, or that the Bulls "could have done that trade, we could have given xxxxx who is better than xxxxxx, who they traded xxxxxxxx for".

    Or in this case, maybe the Magic didn't want Henderson's $6 million salary for this season with his $6 million player option for next season. And maybe they didn't want the $6 million in salary the Bulls would have needed to send out in order to take back Afflalo.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Yea, as it turned out Denver had a trade exception to absorb Afflalo without sending money back, which was key for Orlando.

  • I agree with others here who have said that this is far from the door being closed on Melo. Not only does this increase the likelihood of a sign & trade, but in an interview with VICE Sports, Anthony stated his desire isn't really to join a super team, but to join a true team:

    "As far as player personnel goes, I would love to be involved in that. At the end of the day you're creating a family. You can't create a bond with somebody that's not going to fit in with you or not going to be there when you need them the most and don't understand the game and how to win and situations in the game and things like that," he said. "As much as it has to do with having the top guys on the team, superstars per se, you need the rest of your soldiers. You need guys that are going to go out there and put their life on the line for you because it's a war, it's a battle."

    Sounds to me like he's looking for more of a Bulls situation & not a Rockets type.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    Good point, I read that article too. Neither Howard or Harden seem like the go to war with type of guys.

  • In reply to ChiRy:

    ChiRy - you make me feel better. That quote sounds like he's talking about Thibs and the Bulls.

  • It seems to me that everyone is massively over reacting.

    Asik was always the easy one of the 2 guys to move. He has much more basketball value. Using $8.4 million of cap space to obtain your starting center is not at all unwise. I think that most everyone in basketball agrees that Davis's future is as the best power forward in the league, he is simply not a full time center. The Pell's realized that they made a big(perhaps huge) mistake last year letting Robin Lopez (@$5.6 million per) go. They are correcting for that by getting Asik, who is certainly the better defender and likely rebounder also. Look at the effect that Lopez presence had on Aldridge, it moved him back into the discussion for best power forward, and salvaged Portland's chances to keep him as a franchise cornerstone. Asik can do the same for Anthony, it likely vaults him into contention to become the leagues leading scorer, and also makes him a better defensive player.
    The Pell's needed a starting center and desperately need to get better on defense. I'd say they got one of the best if not the best guy to do that for them. As I've said before, I'd rather have Asik than Hibbert.

    Linn has always been the hard one to move, more Landry Fields on steroids than Asik. He will cost Houston other significant assets.
    $8.4 million in cap space for a non(or borderline) starting PG is not a good allocation of cap space, nevermind actually spending $15 million in cash on him. The Rockets could well lose Chandler Parson's(in addition to a pick) if they really want to dump Lin.

    Additionally, even after they dump Lin I'm not sure that the Rockets will be able to pay Anthony the max, I've read $18-19 million. Howard, Harden and Scola make more than Rose, Noah and Taj, so they can't be in any better shape than the Bulls.

    I agree that Houston represents a better spot for Melo basketball talent wise, although Hardin and Melo would seem to be the classic case of needing 2 basketballs. To me the Bulls best(I might say only) realistic shot of landing Melo was a sign and trade, that is still the case today, and if anything it got better since Houston just traded away one of its best trade chips, especially now that Chandler is out of NY, as the Knicks could easily have replaced him with Asik for one year.

    To me nothing has really changed, Houston was always the leader in the clubhouse, basketball(of big 3)wise. They were always going to find a way to move Asik and Lin. Now it is up to each front office to make their best pitches and convince Melo, we will see who does this best.

    The Pelly's did what they thought was best for them, I'm sure that the Bulls or Rockets chances of landing Melo was not a part of the decision making process. I always thought that letting Lopez go was mistake on their part, and that once Howard signed with the Rockets, Asik going to the Pelly's was the perfect move. Apparently, they figured it out also. It may not have been all that real, but there was talk at the last trade deadline about an Asik for Anderson deal, this was certainly a better way for them to acquire Asik.

    Everybody here is reacting to the trade as Bulls fans which is fine for this forum, but makes no sense in an objective analysis. This is certainly a better deal than spending $55 million on Ben Gordon for 2 season's on the hope that a 1.7% miracle would get you the 9th pick in this years draft, which is what someone on this site advocated for 2 years ago.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Scola plays for the Pacers...but your point is valid, they can offer Melo about as much as we can. Their ace in the hole is the ability to send Harden back to NY in a S&T and still have a respectable amount to offer LeBron so that he can join Melo in HOU.

  • In reply to nolebron:

    Right on Scola, wtf was I thinking, but I still read that even after they get rid of Lin, the max cap space that they can clear is $17.9 million.

  • In reply to nolebron:

    Also Melo makes or will make quite a bit more than Harden, so unless there is another significant salary going in NY's direction, Houston would actually lose cap space trading for Melo leaving something(maybe much)less than $17.9 for Lebron.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Everyone here reacts to everything as Bulls fans. Simmonds showed how much the crapshoot the draft really is, but most people only bring up the Bulls misses and act like it's the result of a bad FO, as opposed to the result of every draft being a crapshoot in which many FO's miss each year.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Yea, I posted about that Simmons article yesterday, it really demonstrates that no one knows much about the draft, not NBA people or certainly us fans.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Yes, I posted there that I enjoyed it :)

  • the one question that I have is does the protected pick role over or does it disappear after one year. If healthy the Pelly's should be a playoff team, and if the east sucks as bad as this year they could finish with one of the top 11 records in the league. Even if Houston gets the pick it would only be in the teens, unless the whole team gets hurt again.

  • I can't believe how often Morey gets fellated here and everywhere else. The object is to win in the playoffs, not in June and July.

    When the Rockets make it out of the first round of the playoffs, wake me up.

    If Howard were a Bull, everyone would bitch that he's such a prima donna with little offensive skills who can't hit a FT. If Harden were a Bull, everyone would bitch that he makes Boozer look like Defensive Player of the Year in comparison.

  • It's hard to judge the Afflalo trade until it's all said and done. Maybe Chicago's intel showed that NY would not want him in a S&T and then you blow precious salary cap space on him.

    Maybe the Bulls really feel they have the inside track on Melo - either via trade or outright signing.

    Maybe Bulls have deals in place for tonight with Sactown or Denver to trade up and feel that whoever they will take + Mirotic + some other FA is a better plan C if Melo and Love fall through.

  • For the Knicks, I like their trade for Calderon and other assets, while unloading Felton and Chandler. I would not be surprised if Pau Gasol finds himself in a Knicks uniform this fall, via S&T. Gasol knows how to run the triangle offense.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Interesting. I remember Jackson's last year coaching the Lakers when he went ballistic on Gasol during the playoffs for apparently missing a defensive rotation. Phil even grabbed Pau by his uniform.

    However, this would probably indicate you are right. Jackson used to rip Horace Grant continually when he was with the Bulls but years later he practically begged Grant to play for him in LA.

  • I'm struggling not to HATE gar/pax right now and the powers that be in tht BullsFO. Affalalo should have been a Bull. This happens every damn year, news gets leaked and hopes are driven, but nothing brash or bold has been done. We wait. We wait. We wait for it. We get dictated to and always seem to be in a position of weakness.

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:

    Maybe you should quit getting your hopes up about each and every little rumor that's out there, because about 99% of them never happen.

    Not just with the Bulls, but with every team in every sport in every country in the world.

  • I have rarely disagreed more with an article by Doug. Omer Asik instantly makes New Orleans a top 3 defense in the NBA. And at the minuscule cost of 8 million for the starting center position. Yes it costs the owner 15 million, but who cares. Salary cap is all that counts (convince Reinsdorf of that please). By all accounts, Asik was eager to resign here early. He will probably extend with New Orleans and make one of the best front courts in the league for years to come. Espn was saying all week that half a dozen teams were bidding for Asik. Lin is the less desirable cap dump.

  • In reply to sfpaper:

    Yea, Doug must have been day dreaming about Ben Gordon again when he came up with his headline for today. Borderline Nucking Futs.

  • Bottom line, if the Bulls don't land Lebron, Melo, or Love, Pax and Forman have to go!

  • The fascinating angle on tonight's draft is to watch which teams are giving away assets to go all in on LeBron/Melo/Love, and which teams are capitalizing on those idiots. For example, the Lakers are willing to sell their #7 pick for anyone willing to pay Steve Nash for one year to free cap space. Lakers = idiots. Some other team = smart for buying a #7 pick and forfeiting the pipe dreams of signing free agents who have no intention if leaving.

  • By the way the worst thing that can happen tonight has nothing to do with the Bulls. If Embiids injury causes him to fall to the Celtics or Lakers that would suck almost as bad as the big 3 getting together in either city, unless he turns out to be a bust. If the Lakers get him it would be like the year they signed Shaq as a FA and then traded Divac for the 13th pick to draft Kobe.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Well he certainly looked pissed that the 76ers took him.

  • Draftexpress has the Bulls taking Hood and Napier. Not one but two guys who shot 40% from three in college. Add Mirotic as well and that's a huge upgrade in shooting, the Bulls might actually have a modern NBA offense. I'd be happy with that as a backup plan if we can't snag one of LeBron/Love/Melo.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    That would have been smarter than trading both for McDermott

  • Stauskis at 8 to Sacto, weren't the Bulls rumored to be trading for that pick. Maybe it depends on who is there at 16 and/or 19.

  • Chicago just traded for McDermott. That ought to help the O!

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Thibs is going to hate him though.

  • Gary Harris + Adreian Payne ?

  • In reply to sfpaper:

    Ugh - 16 and 19 for McDermott. Sell the 2nd rounder for peanuts. What a waste of the last six weeks.

    Grade : D-

  • In reply to sfpaper:

    Payne went 15 to Atlanta, so what are you saying.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I had just returned home from dinner and was hoping the Bulls might score Harris and Payne still with just a pick or two before them. I did not know they had worked a trade with Denver.
    All in for Melo now. Too bad he has not one bit of interest in leaving New York . Someone explain why his people would leak to the media that he is shopping for a home in Chicago. What purpose does that serve when your agents leak that to the press? Sad.

  • I'm happy with the pic. Not only did we get a Nba ready player who can score but we also saved some cap in the process. I think McDermott's gonna fit right in and has the potential to be our 6th man. I do think he's going to struggle early on defensively but he's with the perfect team and perfect coach for that. I give the Bulls a B for the draft.

  • In reply to ajaychitown:

    Measured 6'6 1/2 at the combine. He can't guard the worst NBA 3's or 4's. He is Kyld Korver on his best days. Three picks and that is all they could come up with. I will be quiet and throw up now.

  • Just an ignorant comment until we see how the offseason plays out.

  • In reply to Eric:

    That was a response to sfpaper.

  • Say hello to Adam Morrison! Damn that was stupid I would take Nurkic and Garry Harris all day over McDermotts slow ass.

  • In reply to Chad:

    See below from after the combine. Not to mention the pick saves cap space and makes Dunleavy expendable. Adam Morrison was the 3rd pick in the draft. These comments crack me up.

    • Doug McDermott pulled out a 36.5-inch running max vertical, which ranked 18th among the nearly 60 players who participated in the event. McDermott also boosted his stock by ranking in the top 15 in the lane agility drill. The former Creighton star is, according to several NBA executives, a likely late-lottery selection. McDermott helped dispel any notion that he is unathletic with his vertical and with the running events.

  • In reply to Eric:

    Yeah but the tape doesn't lie he plays slow. He won't be anything more than a three point specialist at the nba level. Very low ceiling player to trade up in such a deep draft for IMO.

  • In reply to Chad:

    How deep was it really, to me the way that it played out, it was a 15 player draft, with the Bulls picking 16, maybe the Celtics got a steal with Young at 17. Maybe Hood becomes a player, but his D and effort are both reputed to be worse than McDermotts.

    Like Simmons demonstrated yesterday at Grantland, it is an absolute crapshoot, and nobody knows nothin until a few years after it is over.
    All we can do is cross our fingers and hope that we get lucky.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    You have a point there. How did Arenas and Redd, both drafted in the 2nd round, become All-stars? And #1 picks become duds?

  • In reply to Chad:

    Unfortunately, Harris's ass is too short to be a starting SG in the NBA and he only shot 35% from the college 3, so really what is he in the NBA. At best he is a role player off the bench, maybe a super poor mans version of Ben Gordon, but one who plays D.

    I think that we all have to get over the fact that McDermott is white and wait until we see him play in person against NBA competition.

    At least he doesn't look like a pothead, like Morrison did.

  • Not sure I agree with trading up for him was worth it. But McDermott can definitely shoot, and the Bulls need that. He's ready to play right away, and the Bulls need to be trying to win now. So I can at least see the logic.

    So I'm OK with McDermott on a couple of conditions:

    a) He puts in the effort like Korver did to be a good system defender. Like with Korver he's obviously not athletic enough to ever be a good individual defender, but if he commits to the scheme he can at least not be a complete liability.
    b) Unlike with Korver Thibs actually plays him instead of a security blanket who is better at defense.

    Still need to see what else happens, but this definitely feels like a pick the Bulls made for themselves ... they're banking on signing Melo outright or not at all.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Well, we know he can score. As I recall, McDermott rebounds too.

    Maybe Thibs and Noah can stimulate a bit of D from him. If you don't like McDermott at $2-3 million per year, why would you want Love for $17 million per year?

    He could turn out to be a steal or a bust.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Rebounding was listed as a weakness in the draftexpress scouting report for McDermott, they said his lack of size and explosiveness means he's frequently out jumped for rebounds.

    Can't really compare Love to McDermott, one guy has proven himself as an elite NBA scorer, the other hasn't. I doubt McDermott has the size to score in the post against NBA level bigs the way Love can. I think McDermott is a 3 in the NBA, if he plays 4 it'll be on the perimeter.

  • Speaking of guys Thibs is going to hate, Anthony Randolph included in the trade. Which also makes no sense at all, since it adds salary, unless the Bulls have already given up on the FA chase?

  • In reply to Shakes:

    That has to be another asset to use in a sign and trade for cap purposes, if not we got Tyrus Thomas back in the trade for his pick.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I understand that's the theory being put out there, but I just don't see it. By clogging the cap up the Bulls are less of a threat to sign Melo outright making a S&T harder to force NY into.

  • Meh. I don't think McDermott even projects as a starter, let alone a star, due to his defensive limitations. I think he'll be a good offensive player and that's what the Bulls need, and he'll have a long NBA career but he's a super sub at best, IMO. Perfectly fine pick at 11 but not worth trading 16 and 19, not in this year's draft. Bulls could have taken, for instance, Harris and Hood.

    If this is a salary-saving move in light of another move that's coming like Melo or Love, then totally fine. If there is no other move coming (Mirotic doesn't count as a move, they already have him) then I think the Bulls could have done better.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Agree with your entire take, almost word for word, however, if it was totally a salary cap saving move, then taking Saric as a Eurostash would have made even more sense. However, with Payne, Saric, Warren and LaVine off the board, I liked keeping 16 & 19 less than I did going in.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Agree with all of your points except one. I do believe McDermott will be a starter in the league. The first time I ever saw this guy play I immediately saw the comparison to Szczerbiak. It was really uncanny. And Wally was a solid player for several years. I recall Jerry Krause trying to get Szczerbiak over a period of about three years.

    McDermott's ability to get accurate shots off quickly, with defenders focusing on him, is an uncommon skill. I would have preferred Hood and Harris/Napier like you but give this guy his due. The Bulls needed shooting and he was the best shooter out there.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Like your thoughts on Szczerbiak, however, I'm happy to have McBucketts over Hood, Harris and Napier. Szczerbiak's would have been better and longer if it weren't for injuries.

    Along with a point guard who can break down a defense off the dribble, the 3 has become the biggest weapon in the game. There aren't that many guys who have the potential to shoot 45% from 3, McBucketts projects to be one of them.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    He actually reminds me more of Reggie Miller in the way he runs around to catch and shoot, though obviously he won't be as good as the best shooter ever in Miller.

  • I wasn't a fan of trading 2 picks for 1, but everybody that I really liked was gone by 16, the only guy left was Hood at 19(who has issues with being soft on D).

    However, since we made the deal, we essentially had our choice of McDermott, Saric, LaVine, Payne, Warren and Harris. McDermott, would not have been my first choice from that group, but he is clearly the best shooter of the bunch if he can transfer that skill to the NBA. Shooting is supposed to be a skill that transfers well. Career 55% from the field(on over 2000 attempts) and 46% from 3, 83% from the line, but 87% the last 2 seasons.

    Interesting how far that Harris fell, I guess that being a midget does matter(he looked shorter than Adam Silver). That and being a shooter who only shot 35% from the college 3 last season. The only other guys that looked shorter than Silver were Ennis and Napier.

    Unfortunately, upon hearing of the trade, as a jaded Bulls fan, Adam Morrison is the first thought that comes to mind. His upside doesn't seem to be any higher than Kyle Korver or Wally Sczerbiak, not sure which one of those guys is actually the better player, Korver the better pure shooter, Wally a better overall player, certainly got paid more than Korver.

    the Bulls probably wanted Stauskis over McDermott even though he only shot 47% from the field for his career(albeit against tougher competition) but nearly matched McDermott at 44% on 3's. Jay Bilas called Stauskis the best shooter over McDermott by a hair saying that he would pick him to win a game of horse, but he called McDermott the best scorer in the draft. The main reason to like Stauskis better is that he is a pure SG at 2 inches shorter than McD. That makes him a better fit with Butler who can then play his more natural position of small forward.

    Does McDermott play small forward or shooting guard for the Bulls(when we don't get Melo). He is somewhat undersized for a small forward, and probably under athletic for either. I guess that he and Butler can become interchangeable depending on matchups. The question will be who can McDermott guard.

    McDermott was probably among the least talked about guys on any of the Chicago boards, so he likely won't be well received. Look if he becomes Korver or Sczerbiak we can't really complain. As a 4 year starter and a coaches son, he should be able to contribute as a role player right away, and maybe even as a starter if we don't upgrade the roster in free agency.

    The best thing that I can say about him at this point, is that since his Nickname is McBuckets, Stacey King will officially have to retire his most ridiculous current Nickname, Jimmy G Buckets.

    Now if we could just combine McBuckets everything with Snells body and athleticism, we'd have the steal of the draft.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    He's clearly better all around scorer than Korver coming in - 2/3 of Korver's college attempts were 3s, vs about 1/3 of McDermott's. McDermott was able to score at the rim in college - look at his shot chart: - obviously it'll be harder against NBA defenses but if some of that translate's he's not a guy like Korver who is a pure outside shooter.

    Defense is a legit worry - averaging a combined 1 block or steal every 3 games is horrid. That's the baseline level of what you get by accident just standing on the court.

    Don't think he'll be a star but I do think if he can be at least a system defender he's capable of being starter quality player who just being there and forcing teams to guard him will make it easier for the other 4 guys.

    Agree about McBuckets hopefully stealing the nickname from Butler for sure. But more likely is he keeps calling Butler Buckets and the hot sauce stuff gets dragged back out for McDermott. :(

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Honestly if it retires the Jimmy G Buckets.nickname then it's a great one of the best draft picks the Bulls have made in the GarPax era. If Stacey keeps the nickname or Butler does end up getting traded, then McBuckets is all we got to show for another lost season plus the Lamarcus Aldridge draft pick which was traded for Tyrus Thomas for one of our two picks. But seriously I'll take the lost nickname over Aldridge.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    You wrote, "However, since we made the deal, we essentially had our choice of McDermott, Saric, LaVine, Payne, Warren and Harris. McDermott, would not have been my first choice from that group, but he is clearly the best shooter of the bunch if he can transfer that skill to the NBA. Shooting is supposed to be a skill that transfers well. Career 55% from the field(on over 2000 attempts) and 46% from 3, 83% from the line, but 87% the last 2 seasons."

    Just curious, BigWay, who would have been your first choice? I might have gone for Saric, but if the Bulls have a narrow window to contend with Noah and Taj, then McDermott might make more sense. For sure, the guy will score.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    I would have taken Saric, on the theory that he was a much higher talent who fell only because of his new contract situation, and because it would have cleared $3 million plus in cap space for this summer. Although, I have to admit, with Saric morphing into a power forward he isn't at a position of need with Mirotic in the pipeline.

    My next choice would have been between big upside LaVine and shooting McBucketts.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    After last season's offensive performance, Butler has lost the right to be called Jiimmy Buckets.


    Randolph included for a sign and trade with NY??

  • In reply to Enhog:

    Only if bulls are under the cap, otherwise Randolph can not be traded for two months after he was first traded.

  • Kyle Anderson is just the sort of player the Spurs can turn into a great late first round steal ... fits well with what Doug wrote a while back, their team is full of guys who do multiple things.

  • So now it's Michael/Charlotte doing Riley's bidding. Too funny. And Riley is doing LeBron's bidding as Napier was "his guy." Sheez, it just doesn't end.

    As for McDermott it's a wait and see. He certainly would not have been my choice. He could end up being a good player especially when you take into account his production against a major conference this season and his leadership and competitive attitude seem impeccable. We'll see. I'm certainly not happy when Harris, James Young, and Hood were all available. Oh well we got the Great White Hope(you can play). I know, not PC, but I don't really give a shit.

    I'll tell you who hit the "jackpot" was New York with Cleanthony Early dropping to No. 34. Phil you magnificent bastard! Well played sir. Also Clips got a hell of a three shooter in Wilcox with great attitude, wingspan, measureables, and three pointologist at 28. Nice.

    Also, you can say the NBA draft is a "crap shoot," but drafting Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and Toni Kukoc was not luck IMO. Just as Jerry West trading for Charlotte's pick in Kobe was not luck. Sometimes there are screamingly good candidates who for whatever reason don't get snagged up by somebody else. Meanwhile you have to be astute enough to grab the gold so to speak.

    It's not all luck. Lakers with a guy like Fish, San Antonio has done it again and again. Anyone who says it's all luck is fooling themselves and quelling their own emotional disappointment in the fact that we have two fairly clueless fucks in execs when it comes to judging offensive talent Teague, Snell, and really Butler not to mention James Johnson who could not shoot either. How long has Paxson been here, but other then total luckout Derrick we've never drafted an offensive star. Never. OK B.G. for a few seasons was damn good, but still.

    Cleanthony Early, James Young, Gary Harris, yawwwnn, Doouuggg McDermottttttt. Time for a nap

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    I'll go out on a crapshoot of a limb a say that neither Cleanthony Early or Gary Harris will ever be anywhere near the player(s) that Pippen, Grant or Kukoc were, almost certainly the same goes for McBuckets. Anyone who has convinced himself that he knows more about the draft than the collective wisdom of everyone that does it for a living is simply deluding himself.

    We are all welcome to our opinions for the fun of it, and some are better than others, but don't fool yourself that you have some magical understanding of this or any other draft that the rest of the world doesn't. 18 teams passed on Harris for a whole lot of reasons(6'2" and 35% being just 2) and 33 teams passed on Early for apparently even more reasons.

    I get that you watch some, maybe even a lot of games, so that gives you some basis upon which to opine, but I am sure that you don't watch more games than the Bulls or any other teams front office personnel.

    All that said, it will be interesting to watch Wilcox career visa vi McDermott's.

  • Doug McDermott & Cameron Bairstow... I think we are trying to lead the league in unathletic white guys

  • In reply to muckfiami:

    Now if we can just re-sign Jimmer & bring back Murphy, I think we got it locked!!

  • Hey cap space honks, here are the numbers:

    Bulls gave up

    #16 Pick - $1,468,900 cap hold
    #19 Pick - $1,266,000 cap hold
    Total $2,734,900

    Bulls get

    #11 Pick - $1,898,300 cap hold
    Anthony Randolph $1,825,359 guaranteed for 2014-15 (Expiring)
    Total $3,723,659

    Bulls actually lost $988,759 in cap room by making this deal. The reason they traded for McDermott was because he was their guy, not for cap savings.

    The cap saving move (as some have mentioned) would have been a Euro Stash at 16 and whomever (Hood, Harris) at 19.

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