Trade Derrick Rose for Carmelo Anthony and sign Kyle Lowry

Trade Derrick Rose for Carmelo Anthony and sign Kyle Lowry

This is the plan that I think might best yield a championship for Chicago. It possibly works out best for every player and team involved that has to say yes, and yet not a single person (except perhaps Lowry) would go along with it.

What is the Bulls single greatest risk in improving their team next year? The health of Derrick Rose. Derrick never looked like he was 100% from the ACL and will now have to come back from a second knee surgery.

This doesn't even begin to go down the road of questioning what now appears to be a fragile mental state and a lack of competitiveness. That's all wrapped up into a package that costs 20 million a year limiting what the Bulls can do with the roster.

The Bulls eliminate this risk, get a better shooting player, and have more roster flexibility with this move.

Why wouldn't New York normally sign and trade Carmelo Anthony? Well New York needs star players back, and since they're in luxury tax territory taking on Carlos Boozer for some first rounders means they're effectively paying maybe 35 million dollars for whatever the Bulls send back.

The Bulls picks aren't that attractive anyway.

However, what if they were instead paying 35 million dollars for a shot at an MVP caliber player with more youth and upside than the one they player they're giving up? Sure it's a risk for NY, but it's a risk worth taking since they have no other shot at getting a superstar, even keeping Anthony. The money won't be a major factor for them with this type of upside.

As for Melo, playing with Rose has to be part of the appeal, but in this trade scenario, the Bulls still bring back an great PG, get Anthony all his money, and won't lose any other depth, picks, or flexibility. Anthony also now gets to be the true center of the team, which I'm sure he'd enjoy.

Lowry is unrestricted, so the Bulls don't have to necessarily overbid. They just need to make a similar offer to Toronto and count on the fact that Lowry would likely prefer to play in Chicago than Canada which would be true of the vast majority of players out there.

His roster in Canada's not bad, but he'd get to run a pretty stacked Bulls team in this scenario as Chicago would easily become the best or second best team in the East. The roster:

PG: Lowry
SG: Butler
SF: Anthony
PF: Taj
C: Noah

Bench: Augustin (room exception), Hinrich (minimum), Snell, Dunleavy, #16, #19, Greg Smith, vet minimum player

The Bulls can play small with Anthony playing as a back up four at times, hope Greg Smith pans out, hope they can get a 3rd big that doesn't totally stink at the vet minimum, or hope that they can find someone serviceable at #16/#19. Next season they can bring over Nikola Mirotic to fill in the gap.

This team solves almost all of the Bulls problems. Lowry improves the Bulls shooting, as does Anthony, it has less injury risk to it without Rose, two shot creators, tremendous defense, and a crapload of depth. On top of that, there's no impending tax crisis Chicago has to worry about even after bringing over Mirotic and signing Butler to an extension.

Augustin still provides your bench scoring, Dunleavy's still your specialist marksmen, Greg Smith looks like he can give you some post scoring off the bench, and Hinrich's a nice utility player when you aren't relying on him to do anything significant.

If Snell works enough on his game to play a corner three/defensive specialist role then so be it, if not who cares. The Bulls still have two young guys to add to the team in the draft this year (or two picks to trade for another veteran player), and will add even more depth with Mirotic next season.

Who says no to this? Probably everyone.
Chicago won't risk trading Rose [though I think fan temperament would allow it right now]

Knicks probably wouldn't do the trade either [though it's their best shot at a star player out of this Anthony mess]

Anthony probably backs out without Rose [despite this team possibly having better fits with more shooting, and more future flexibility]

I'd suspect most people reading this blog will also casually dismiss the idea. Even I agree, it's an idea with no chance to actually happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't.

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  • Why do you waste everyone's time writing this nonsense? Rose isn't going anywhere, and the Bulls can throw in Mirotic in a S&T Package for Melo, inclusive of Boozer and both our picks - they're not sniffing 50% of that value from anyone else.

  • In reply to Dajody1:

    They're then paying something like 45 million dollars for that trade package. Do you think our 2 1st round picks and Mirotic are worth that much cash expenditure? They're better off losing Melo for nothing.

    I agree that Rose isn't going anywhere, but I don't agree that this is the right choice.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Why is NY paying $45 mil for that? Because of the repeater tax?

    It would be a big mistake to trade Mirotic anyway -- he might (MIGHT) turn out to be a repeat Allstar. Best find out first. There are options besides Carmelo this year, and there will be a lot more next year.

    However, I would definitely trade Rose for Carmelo. Amnestying Boozer, then adding Carmelo and Mirotic to this year's team likely gets the Bulls to the ECF at least. Plus they should be able to add a low tier FA.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    They're in the tax, so 15 million for Boozer 5 million for Mirotich, then tax penalty Not sure exactly how it works out because I didn't do an in depth analysis of how much tax they paid, it was just a rough guess.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Rusty - you make too much sense.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    I' kinda with you on Mirotic(and so are the Bulls, in my opinion). Taj is a nice fill in starter for a year or 2, but is he really a long term solution, especially since he is 29 already, I don't think so. Besides you need at least 3 quality bigmen if not 4, and it doesn't hurt when they have skill sets that compliment each other as Taj and Mirotic would.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Doug, you sound positively idiotic. Please explain to me how that proposed roster with Melo and Lowry is any better than the roster Melo has had in NY that could not win. And your defense of getting Lowry is that he is a better SHOOTER than Rose? Well so is Jimmer, but that does not give you all that Rose brings to the team. And, as a true Chicagoan, at this point, I only want to see a championship team that includes Rose. Can you please archive this article and rerun it when Rose is back playing at an all-star level next season?

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    In reply to Dajody1:

    NOAH is the trade bait . Overrated Defensive player of the year. Anthony is not going anywhere near Chicago.

  • In reply to Michael Slowik:

    Did Noah steal your lunch money or your girlfriend or both?

  • What this post highlights is how really screwed the Bulls probably are by the Rose contact. No championships until the contact runs out, followed by a rebuild. Yay!

  • In reply to Roman F:

    They're only screwed if Rose doesn't perform like a 20 million dollar player, of course, that means they're probably screwed.

    The idea of this plan is you mitigate the risk of Rose not performing up to his standard (very high risk right now) by getting a player you feel confident can play up to his pay grade, and give yourself more flexibility to make things happen afterwards.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Under this scenario, I assume that you are giving Anthony the 5 year max, how long is it before you're not getting your money's worth out of that deal, 2-3 years, isn't he 30 already.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I'd be hoping to get him for four years, but you're right, Anthony probably doesn't look good at the end of that deal.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    If Rose cannot play and his career is over, are the Bulls then able to remove his salary from the cap? They likely have insurance to pay out his salary for the duration of his contract.

    I agree with the Rose for Carmelo trade for the reasons you stated. If they do this, the Bulls will contend for the ECF a year from now. (Barring injuries, of course.)

  • In reply to rustyw:

    He has to not play for a certain amount of games for the Bulls to pull that off, seems highly unlikely. Rose will come back and play enough that this won't be a possibility.

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    In reply to DougThonus:

    62. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

    There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

    The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 78), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

    Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

    There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion following a waiting period. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

    The waiting period depends on the number games in which the player played in the season:1

    If the player played 10 or more games in a season, the team can apply on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
    If the player played fewer than 10 in a season, the team can apply 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.
    The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

    If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary immediately.

    If the player later "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

    There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

    If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).
    If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
    A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
    If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
    This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.
    1 They count only regular season and playoff games, and do not count preseason games. This was not specified prior to the 2011 CBA. During the 2008-09 season Darius Miles (whose salary was excluded from Portland's cap) played in 10 games for Boston and Memphis (the limit was 10 games at the time), which included preseason games. The league counted the preseason games toward the total, and returned Miles' salary to Portland's cap.

  • I would certainly trade Rose if we got value back. Much prefer to trade him to a team out west though. I am in the camp that believes Rose will never regain his MVP form eventhough there are cases where players have come back from serious knee surgeries. I expect he will fall off to Deron Williams like effectiveness. Still good, but not the Derrick of three years ago. My ideal scenario would be to get back a boatload of draft picks and good young established players. Utah or Denver could be good trade partners.

    Having said this, this will never happen. The franchise is going to live or die with Rose. Certainly this is a defensible strategy. A talent like him does not come by often. However, his contract and history of injuries makes him a risky option in my view.

    News flash: Tony Snell got his braids cutoff. Now Gar will finally realize that he did not draft Kawhi Leonard. Instead he drafted Brad Sellers' illegitimate son.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Can't imagine that anyone is giving up a big package of stuff for Rose given his contract and two years of not playing.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    unless he performs well in the summer USA tryouts... if he's just as good as he was over the first 10 games of this year, (ie, passes the eye test) and stays injury free then I think they'll be takers... only 3 years left on that deal and you are getting a 25-yer old league MVP. Who says he can't be 95% of his old self? His shooting is bound to improve as he ages and that's huge.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Well sure, if he proves that he's really good again, but if he could do that we wouldn't trade him anymore.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Maybe cutting off his braids is the first step toward giving up the cheech and chong lifestyle and joining the real world(not the MTV version). Less trying to be Snoop Dog and more trying to be a quality basketball player. At least now he will look like less of a mope a dope while sitting on the bench.

  • I was hoping this post was a joke but you're dead ass. I'm officially unfollowing you!

  • In reply to dldjr:

    Well you can't please everyone!

    I will have plenty of plans that include Rose as well (in fact the vast majority of them), I don't view trading Rose as a "must do", but I think this plan gives you a very good team without a lot of risk and plenty of flexibility.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I'm just giving you sh*t. I'll be checking your post tomorrow

  • In reply to dldjr:

    Why stop there? Why don't you start stalking Doug and/or send him dead animal parts through the mail?

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    Dude i usually love your stuff but that is idiotic...

  • In reply to John Richards:

    Why? Tell me what is idiotic about it?

    I get that the Bulls won't entertain moving Rose for PR reasons, but let's say we get past that. Tell me what part of this plan gives the Bulls a worse team or why it doesn't work for everyone involved in it?

  • I had this exact same thought and asked Sam Smith about it. He said it would never happen because of insurability issues with Rose's contract. I could see Phil doing it. If Rose comes back healthy, he is a perfect guy to build around. If he doesn't, it was a good risk and it makes it easy to tank and rebuild. If Melo signs a long term deal, NYK could have trouble putting the right pieces around him, and they waste the next two years of his prime. I would think the Bulls would need to send a couple of #1 picks in the deal as well, but they have them to send. Lowry would be great in Thibs' system. Melo's prime coincides with Noah and Taj's best years as well. I could see this happening. Phil wants to build a team that shares the ball. You do that around Rose, not Melo.

  • In reply to piggy7:

    Not sure that trading Rose's insurability. He was likely insured when he signed his big contract and prior to getting injured. Not sure if the insurance is a league wide thing or a team specific one. But my guess is that his insurance would transfer with him in a trade.

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    I don't think it's idiotic in the least. Moving Rose right now is a risk, as he may, and I hope he does, return as a great player. That said, he may also hurt himself again. I think the trade would be a bigger risk for NY than for Chicago. I agree it will never happen, but certainly can't say it's idiotic.

  • In reply to Paul D:

    Agreed. There is a difference between realistic and idiotic.

    Is this proposal realistic? No, for a variety of reasons. But is it idiotic? Absolutely not. It actually makes sense for both parties for a few different reasons. But again, it will never happen.

  • In reply to John Kerth:

    In case you want to see what the second of those options really looks like check out the post below about the Lakers trading us their #1 pick this year for Thibs and then if it turns out to be #1 overall the Bulls trading it to Orlando for Aaron Afflalo.

  • Come on, part of blogs like this is playing G.M. what if's. This is simply escapist entertainment. Even if Doug really believes this would be a good idea and you don't who cares? It's just an opinion de jour. That's his job, and I'm grateful for it. The fact that most people generally appreciate his NBA sensibilities and get a free forum to expound on them is a good thing. Lighten up.

    Another thing to think about is this: It's said people learn the most not from success, but from their greatest failures. Bold ideas even if crazy to some can spark new ideas and insights that are not so crazy. A Rose trade under Gar/Pax granted is unfathomable as it is to many fans likely. Still, why not? He's mentally hit a hurdle here beyond the injuries I don't think anyone would deny that? So why wouldn't a change of scenery be good for him and the Bulls?

    If not for the new "hard" cap someone might indeed bite on a Rose trade $17 plus Mil and all. In the wake of the new draconian penalties I doubt this would occur now. As to Kyle Lowry(who I was interested in when he was available) had a career year, but the two seasons prior he shot .401 and .409 on field goal percentage. Granted he shoots 4 threes a game, but still? And his A/TO while 2 to 1 is decent it's not spectacular by any means. Still, I kind of like him.

    The more interesting scenarios to me right now are 1) If he is soured on management and wants a new address Doc Rivers style trade Thibs to the Lakers(for what a first) or make him stay(?) and 2) If Mirotic requires well above the MLE does the constraint of avoiding the luxury tax mean you can't pour that much money into the power forward position? Taj and Mirotic's combined salaries that's possibly $14-16 Million? Or do you keep a good offensive player in Taj(play him some at center) and attempt to trade Noah's salary as he was largely ineffective in recent playoffs with injuries, two low 40's field goal percentage showings, and according to Doug and some fans this year gave you virtually nothing against Washington bad match up and all.

    Despite the sub par post season, coming off DPOY, All-Star nods etc. it may be big market hype to some extent, but their are owners/G.M.'s out their who likely would value this even at his numbers as crazy as that sounds it wouldn't shock me. Let's say you trade Noah(and god forbid Jimmy Butler) to Minny for Dieng and Kevin Martin? If salaries aren't close enough you add two years of a small garbage contract filler aka Ronnie Turiaf. Personally I think the Bulls held on to the "core" of Deng, Noah, and yecchh bringing back Hinrich. I'm just tired of these guys. You get Dieng, K-Mart II, Mirotic, Taj, Rose, draft a Rodney Hood or Jordan Adams as in another scorer and Adrien Payne as another depth big who can shoot threes to boot with excellent athleticism. Even if people don't like these proposals, the bigger point is the Bulls horrid offense needs a shakeup that's for sure and though doubtful you could or should see one possibly beginning on draft night.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Agree on your entertainment point. While Doug's trade actually has merit, I think that he threw it out there more as a Skip Bayless tactic to raise ratings.

    Don't see what is wrong with paying Taj and Mirotic combined less than we've been paying boozer.

    Since Noah will never be Wilt Chamberlain, it's obvious that you have no use for him. You don't need 5 offensive studs in today's NBA, and center is the best position to trade offense for defense. That said, if the Bulls put him on the market, they would certainly get a lot more than Dieng and Martin for him, even without throwing in Butler. Yes, I was one of many who wanted the Bulls to draft Dieng. the Bulls would be flooded with offers, likely more and better than we would get for Rose right now.

    Of course, you are now making my argument for keeping Asik 2 years ago. I said back then that you could trade Noah in the summer of 2014(right before Asik's $15 million year) at his peak value for an all star caliber scoring wing and just plug Asik into the starting lineup. I just think that wing is someone a lot better than an over 30 Kevin Martin.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    You are correct that the only exit plan, if Bulls had matched Asik, was to trade Noah as Asik with that $15 million year was likely untradeable. So in effect, matching Asik would have required a willingness, or even a decision, or can we say the vision, to trade Noah.

    Bulls lost a significant trade asset, and remember Asik was a significant draft win for the Bulls FO in in 2nd round of 2008. The success of Euro scouting, draft day trade-up, and drafting Asik was completely negated - like it never happened and they instead drafted another Erik Murphy. Or like in the 2nd round of 2007 when Bulls FO drafted Aaron Gray and JamesOn Curry at 49 and 51 instead of trading up those picks to draft Marc Gasol (who was drafted at 48 by Lakers, traded for his brother Pau, and two championships where created as a direct result).

    How is having the vision to trade Marc Gasol for Pau Gasol much different from having the vision to match Asik and trade Noah?

    Whether we Bulls fans want to admit it or not, any front office can't 'miss' like that very often and win a championship. Often, its the difference between making or not making a single move like these that do in fact determine which team becomes a champion.

    Add the recent Snell over Dieng-Plumlee-Hardaway miss, followed by firing Ron Adams the very next day, and the FO picture becomes clearer.

    The 2011 draft day trade-up for Mirotic was an excellent move and is a mirror image of the 2008 Asik move, and also a mirror image of the never executed 2007 Marc Gasol move. Bulls have some of the NBA's best Euro scouting personnel (Ivica Dukan) dating back to drafting Toni Kukoc-1990. But they fumbled both Asik and Gasol (in different ways) and you can't do that very often and win championships in the NBA.

    Imagine if Bulls FO now somehow fumbled away Mirotic like they did Asik-2008, Gasol-2007, Aldridge-2006, Dieng-Plumlee-Hardaway-2013. IMO, Bulls FO gets a bit too much credit for a couple late first round minor successes in Butler-2011 and Gibson-2009, and the blind luck of 1.8% in 2008.

  • The Bulls are not trading Rose, and should not trade Rose. The Bulls only chance of becoming relevant again is with a healthy Rose. Thus, you take the risk that he’s going to become healthy again. Without Rose, you’ve got no shot. As for Carmelo, I’ve said all along that he’s resigning with the Knicks. Having Phil Jackson gives him the excuse to stay with New York. Without Rose in Chicago, I don't believe Carmelo would even consider joining the Bulls.

  • In reply to RichG:

    IF this whole thing happened, I think the Bulls would be relevant, legit title contenders, and have a shot to knock off anyone in the NBA.

    I agree it won't happen, too many pieces need to fall into place, and I think everyone involved would initially say no. However, if it did, you have balanced scoring, shot creation, great defense, great depth, and everything you need to have a shot at the title.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    "... relevent, legit title contenders, and have a shot to knock off anyhone in the NBA..."
    Lets explore the genius of Doug:
    1. Carmelo - pure scoring and nothing else. he has been surrounded by excellent talent in NY, Stoudemire, Smith, for offense, Chandler, Shumpert, for defense, They've had great 3-point shooting in recent years, and Carmelo has led them to NOTHING.
    2. Lowry - a servicable to decent player but not a difference maker. His scoring is no more than Augustin has given the Bulls.
    3. Butler - despite all of the hype and hope, he is still severely challenged offensively and still not a good enough 3-point shooter to be a quality 2-guard (Think Beal!)
    4. Taj - Not many complaints here other than we still have to see how he reacts as a starter, not a bench player.
    5. Noah - again, much hype, a lot of hustle, but still not a ton of basketball skill. Yes he had a lot of assists, but the Bulls, run most of the plays through him which won't, or should not be, the case with a real point guard on the floor. He does not shoot well enough to keep teams from leaving him completely open to double Rose, er, I mean Lowry. And he was exposed this post-season for his supposed DPOY prowess.. He cannot handle any physically strong centers, and cannot go out to the perimeter to guard the likes of Bosh.
    So, THAT is your roster that can challenge any team in the NBA? we will just become NYK west. A lot of Carmelo scoring, but no serious challenge to winning a title. Lastly; All we have been hearing of late is that teams need at least two superstars to even compete for a title, so, in your scenario, who is that second superstar? Lowry? Taj? Noah? Get real!

  • In reply to khamari:

    How in the world did the Bulls win 48 games this season? It must have been a miracle! If they had Carmelo this year, do you think they would have beaten the Wiz?

    Now it seems to me if they add Carmelo and Lowry they have to improve, especially if they lose Boozer and bring over Mirotic. That should get them to the ECF. Draft a decent shooter and they might go farther.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Rusty, they won 48 games in the East, where a sub-500 team made the playoffs! Also, it means nothing to win 48 and get destroyed in the first round. And to answer your question, there is no guarantee that they would have beaten the Wiz with Carmelo. Someone still had to stop Wall, Beal, Nene, and Ariza. Carmelo could not do that. And even if they got to the EC, I challenged Doug saying that they could compete with anyone with that proposed roster.

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    In reply to khamari:

    Jo, Jimmy and Brewer to OKC for Westbrook and Steven Adams.

  • In reply to khamari:

    F.Y.I. Noah was the #1 rated player in the league in defensive efficiency this year @ 95.7, and that is while guarding the best scoring bigman every night to cover for the bozohole and being the best help defender in the league. He may not be perfect but he doesn't exactly suck either, as you seem to suggest. We don't need him to be an offensive/scoring stud if the rest of the roster is constructed properly and is healthy. I'm pretty sure that a team with 5 Wilt Chamberlains wouldn't work out either.

  • Doug, interesting article to say the least. I don't think this will ever happen, but if it did the PR hit would be enormous since you're trading away a hometown guy. I understand the "basketball reasons" or rationalization though, even admittedly I'm in the best-case scenario for Rose camp. If it results in a championship it may lessen the negative PR impact, but think about it from the perspective of attracting free agents and the org's reputation amongst NBA players. If the Bulls have a reputation now of being cheap/disloyal, etc. trading Rose would be tantamount to a huge "Stay Away" sign on all 4 sides of the UC and the soon to be built practice facility.

  • In reply to JPesos1230:

    I wish Ben Wallace, Carlos Boozer, Rip Hamilton, Kirk Hinrich, Eddie Robinson, etc. would have taken heed of that reputation and "stayed away." Not to worry, however, I have full confidence Oprah, Jesse Jackson, and Benny the Bull will reel in either Carmelo or Kevin Love.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Murderers' row of false bball hopes there... The Ben Wallace move is the one that still infuriates me.

    The sign is irrelevant when someone lets you in the back entrance. *cough Krause...cough GarPax*

  • In reply to JPesos1230:

    Kind of depends what happens with Rose afterwards. If the Bulls trade Rose and he stinks, then there's no real fallout is there?

    If he trades Rose, and he's awesome again, then they just totally screwed themselves.

  • In reply to JPesos1230:

    I wonder how "thrilled" Rose would be going to NY, I think that he would hate it as most people who grew up in Chicago would.

  • I love the idea and as a level-headed fan I would realize that bringing in 2 great (yes, Lowry is a great player-check the #'s) players that complement each other and sending 1 great player out (that wouldnt really fit) leaves you better off. You pretty much open a 4 year window where you are serious title contenders before having to tear down and rebuild.

  • D-Wade takes a verbal shot at an opposing team and now the Bulls have a reputation of disloyalty that is scaring away star players? If this is true, D-Wade is perhaps the most powerful player to ever play in the NBA. I guess if you hate Bulls management, you use it as confirmation of your beliefs.

  • I would never trade Rose for anthony, maybe lebron or durant, but never for anthony, I expect derrick come back at 100% and lead this team for good. Also, I don't like lowry, don't know why, but I don't.


  • Nice seeing a different scenario for once. Would we be unable to add Mirotic in this scenario?

    It is frustrating seeing 20 milllion on the bench when we desperately need players. I would give Rose another year but then if he did reinjure himself again, no team is going to take on his salary. So if Rose did go down next season, we could possibly waste 2 or 3 seasons until his contract is up.

  • In reply to Jamie W:

    You'd have to wait one year on Mirotic still if you brought in Lowry.

    You might be able to move Dunleavy and Snell to make enough room for Mirotic this year, it would kind of depend on the details.

  • I'd like to see Chicago trade Thibs to the Laker's for their 1st round pick--and hope it turns out to be the top pick of the Draft. Then they could draft the top center or even better Jabari Parker and maybe forget about Anthony all together. Or, they could trade the pick to Orlando for Arron Afflalo. Still draft a power forward and bring Mirotic after trading or amesting Boozer. They might even get Kerr or Mark Jackson while they are still available.

  • In reply to penwit1:

    So you would trade a proven coach for an unproven player and then hire Mark Jackson or Steve Kerr as a coach. That's got fail written all over it. Very unlikely that you get Jabari from that pick. Steve Kerr hasn't proven anything yet and Mark Jackson is just a cheerleader.

    Really like the idea of getting Aaron Afflalo, he's contract is pretty valuable for what he would bring to the team. Don't want to see Lance or Melo in a Bulls uniform either.

  • In reply to Jamie W:

    I would trade Thibs for a top-6 pick. Talent > coaching in the NBA.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    This year's draft has been overrated because last year's was so poor. It's a nice thought getting a talented scorer from the draft but you're still trading a proven valuable asset for an uncertainty.

    The Lakers would'nt do it because there terrible and need talented players. If the Bulls make some moves in the offseason would it could put the Bulls in a decent psoition to win. Would you not want a top 3 coach when the championship is within reach.

    So after trading Thibs who would be your coaching candidates for the Bulls?

    Look at teams like Thunder and the Rockets. They have all that talent but coaches who don't know how to use it.

  • In reply to Jamie W:

    Like Afflalo a lot but you can't actually agree with trading the #1 pick in the draft for him, which is what he suggested.

    Heck would anyone trade anyone of the top 6 picks for him, I highly doubt it. You may bust out, but you have to take the shot on Wiggins, Embiid, Parker, the Aussie kid, Randle or even Vonleh.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Wouldn't trade a top 6 pick but would happily trade the Bulls 16th and a player. It's not likely that the Magic would want more picks with the already younger talent.

  • In reply to Jamie W:

    That makes sense but Penwit suggested trading the pick that we get from the Lakers for Thibs to Orlando for Aflalo even if it was the #1 pick overall, thats nuckin futs.

  • In reply to penwit1:

    The Lakers wouldn't do that.

    They definitely wouldn't do it prior to the lottery, but even afterwards, they're not giving up the #6 pick for Thibs.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Right and that is the least crazy part of his post. After the Lakers make that trade and the pick turns out to be the #1 overall pick, he then wants the Bulls to trade the pick to Orlando for Aaron F-ing Afflalo. This has to set the world record for most ludicrous post ever.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    More ludicrous than posting the Bulls erred by trading Luol Deng? :)

  • I like the idea because it gives the Bulls offensive weapons immediately and lots of flexibility under the cap and in the future. But as you say, it won't likely work. I want the Bulls to win just as much as anybody. However, why do we keep raising this issue of loyalty when it comes to the Bulls but we are so willing to accept that Carmelo, a New York kid who made such a big deal about coming home, is so easily willing to leave or that the Knicks are so easily willing to trade him? Is he disloyal?

    I know he wants to win and those who are talking about loyalty should recognize that it is about finding the best place to win. If Lebron had said to DWade a few years ago, I think the best place for us to win now and long-term is to go to Chicago, no one would be complaining about loyalty in Chicago, but they would be complaining in both Cleveland and Miami.

    Still let's realize that it is unrealistic to trade DRose right now in a reasonable deal for the Bulls because he is an absolute unknown quantity, not because of loyalty. I think that DRose's game just does not fit with Carmelo's even at DRose's MVP best. I like Lowery's game, but he is another smallish erratic scoring point guard. The Bulls and other teams are better off when they have a stud point guard who can score when needed (Chris Paul, Jason Kidd when with the Mavericks) not because the offense is designed for him to be the leading scorer. Instead the key offense comes from a key player who can post up people (Nowitzki in his prime, Aldridge now) and somebody on the wing as a 2 guard or small forward as the other primary scorer. Otherwise, when you get to the playoffs taller athletic defenders (Lebron, Kobe, Michael Jordan) can take these smaller point guards out of the game. While San Antonio relies on Parker to score, they rely more on Leonard or Ginobli along with Duncan when Lebron keys on stopping Parker in the playoffs, just like Lebrond did when he keyed on Drose a couple of years ago.

    Teams that rely solely on their smallish point guard (not Magic or the Big O) to be their leading scorer don't win championships. Iverson was the last one to get close. But he lost. So trading DRose ought to be a goal if the Bulls don't get some stud wing players who can post up and draw double teams and let DRose supplement their games without being the primary scorer. But until Drose comes back and plays, no one is going to be willing to trade for him without knowing his current status.

    Thanks for bringing this up though. It highlights how the Bulls need to creative about finding offense while dealing with the cap to be a major contender. The only scenario that makes sense to me but probably not to Carmelo is for him to compare all the places where he could be a free agent and don't ask for a lot of money to sign there as a free agent. Just go for a short contract maybe two or three years to see if he will really compete there for a championship. The problem is how do the Bulls compete with Houston to get Carmelo to sign for the Bulls rather than Houston?

  • I would be on board but you're right its not happening. Isn't it crazy how much things have changed in just a little over two years? This would have been laughable then!

  • No GM is going to trade Rose for essentially cap space to chase Lowry - no matter how much sense it does or doesn't make - simply because of the look stupid potential if Rose does get back to full health. GarPax would be risking being laughing stocks and never working in the NBA again.

    But on the merits of the deal ... the problem with Lowry - beware the contract year player. Is it just a coincidence that this year is the best and healthiest he's been?

    The team doesn't really scream championship to me. I think the hope with Rose and Thibs is that you could get Melo to buy into a system that isn't ISO Melo. I don't think you could do that with Lowry, even if you could get Melo to come play with him.

  • The reason I think this idea has problems is the logistics. Firstly, Anthony is a sign and trade deal in order for it to happen. I think Chicago is attractive to him in large part because of Rose. So is he still coming if Rose goes back to NY? Maybe, if Lowry is already signed. But Lowry isn't signing until Rose is gone. So the front office has to get Lowry to verbally agree to come before the trade on the condition the trade happens and then Anthony has to agree to swap places with the very popular Rose knowing the Bulls only have a verbal with Lowry.
    And if the Bulls front office tries to line all this up so the deal can happen, and then it doesn't happen, then expect a lot of problems within this team going forward. Expect Rose to want out, Thibs to want out and maybe even Noah wanting out (especially after seeing Deng already shipped out).
    This is really not a practical plan.

  • In reply to PeterJ:

    this is Noah's team, remember Noah is the one recruiting Melo. As far as Rose, Bulls can deal without him and Rose is not a shooter

  • I totally agree 100 %. Rose need to go and bring Carmelo

  • Let the Lakers talk to Thibs! If they and Coby want him trade him for a this years 6th pick. Next year when the Bulls lose in the 1st round Thibs stock will be too low to get anything in return. He only likes to win in the regular season--don't you all see that yet. He only wins in the Regular season and is a post season loser. The Lakers pick may turn into one of the top 3 and the Bulls could get Parker to play with Noah and Rose. Trading a young super star player like Rose may be a big mistake. Remember how Jordan got hurt and returned--this kid may rise again--and with him the Bulls. Presently this is the Bulls best opportunity. Lowry has been a letdown for years and has only played like he has lately because it's a contract year. After he gets a contract watch how he disappoints. Remember even this year at the beginning Toronto wanted to trade him because he was a disappointment--who only started playing when he discovered no team wanted him. There are coaches out there besides Thibs--and they don't wear down their players till they get hurt or fall by the wayside. Afflalo may not be available--but even Anthony is questionable to play for the Bulls. So far no star wants to play with Chicago--and that's a reality. So getting a potential star like Parker may be Chicago's salvation. Maybe Dunleavy could be traded to Phoenix for the 14th pick and then along with Thibs the Bulls could give the Lakers that pick along with Thibs for the 6th pick which would still allow the Bulls the 16th and 19th picks. The Bulls must depend on the draft for their next superstar to play besides Noah, Rose, and Gibson. Open your eyes guys!

  • I bet Anthony winds up in Houston--cause it seems like none of the superstar players want to come to the Bulls. With that being the reality, Trading Thibs to the Lakers--who want to talk with him now--should be a priority for the Bulls management. Financially speaking, getting Parker or one of the top three should be the Bulls priority--along with this would be the financial feasibility of Mirotic. Then with the 16th and 19th pick Chicago could draft a power forward and a center and still may be under the cap.

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