Sacramento Kings set price for Kevin Love, Bulls may already be out of the bidding

Sacramento Kings set price for Kevin Love, Bulls may already be out of the bidding

The Sacramento Kings are theoretically offering up the eighth pick in the draft for Kevin Love without the need for an extension on the table in a move that seems somewhat insane, but also likely to limit our odds of acquiring the star power forward.

Kevin Love wants to leave Minnesota. He wants to go to California. I don't think Sacramento is what he had in mind though.

The Kings haven't made it to the playoffs in the past eight years, and quite honestly, they don't look all that close now. Love doesn't seem like a particularly good fit for the Kings either, and he'd likely be much closer to the playoffs by simply staying in Minnesota.

Of course, Love doesn't have a choice if the Timberwolves trade him. If the offer of the eighth pick is legit then Minnesota will have to think long and hard about that. The return on Love will go down dramatically if he's not traded this off-season because teams won't have time to convince him to extend.

In that scenario, Love can limit his FA destinations in any way he chooses which leaves the Timberwolves with few options and likely no good ones. If they trade him now, they may get significantly more value, and unfortunately for Bulls fans, Chicago might not be in the running.

Would our offer of Boozer + 2 firsts + Mirotic trump what the Kings are doing? I don't know. Perhaps. It's certainly more bullets for them to use than a single pick, however, there's no guarantee Mirotic will play for Minnesota or come over soon while the two firsts combined aren't worth the eighth pick.

One positive that might come out of a Kevin Love trade scenario is that if Love were moved to the Kings he might improve their play enough to get them out of the bottom 10 picks in the draft and into the range where the Bulls would get to keep the 1st rounder from the Kings next year.

Another scenario is that they could then look to trade Love at 10c on the dollar in February if they continue to play badly and Love tells the Kings he won't be staying there either.

Either way, the trade rumor sets a bottom line price for Love that the Bulls would have to beat, and since they don't have "good" picks, it might be challenging to beat it depending on what Minnesota feels it wants.

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  • If the Kings would offer up the 8th pick for a season of Love, wouldn't they consider giving it up for Taj on a favorable contract?

    While to would suck to lose Taj, it would open up a lot of options for the Bulls. They could then sign Melo outright (if they amnesty Boozer). They could package the 8th pick, Boozer and something else for Love. Or they could package the 8th pick and other assets (their picks this year, the Sac pick, Mirotic) and move higher into the lottery.

  • In reply to chwtom:

    Yes, you would think that Gibson would almost be as good as Love given the terms (signed for 3 years at $8 mil vs possibly leaving after one year...)

    I think most teams in contention would take Taj in a heartbeat for the 8th pick after the way he played against the Wiz. Outside of the top 3 or 4, who will be better than Taj? Will Randle be better than Taj in 3 or 4 years? What about Gordon or Vonleh? The contract is favorable, it's just his age for non-contenders that aren't ready to win now.

    Bulls could trade Taj to Sactown (with Dunleavy) and take whichever is left between those 3 PFs. (although they could all go off the board at 7.) Just estimating, but that could free up about $7 mil with Dunleavy.

    Bulls have lots of options of Gibson is on the table given the PFs high in the draft and Gibson's nice contract.

  • In reply to Granby:

    I do hate trading Taj because he's one of my favorite players and one of the better 2-way Bulls players now that he's improved his O.

    I would consider moving Gibson if it nets Mirotic AND Melo. Could Bulls sign both outright if Gibson/Dunleavy/Snell are unloaded and Melo signs for $15-16 mil and Mirotic $5 mil-ish? And, Bulls trade away picks and/or use them on international guys that will not come over right away?

  • In reply to Granby:

    We can't sign Melo, or anybody else for that matter into cap space and still have the MLE to offer Mirotic. In that case we would only have the room exception, something less than $3 million per which is about equal to his buyout right now, so he won't come over until next season if we sign Melo into cap space. That's why it might be worth giving up a couple of firsts with boozer to get Melo.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Well, hell, yes, if that's all that it would take! I think PJ will want more than a couple of mid to late firsts... unless he thinks he can flip Boozer to someone else to avoid all his salary and taxes... Knicks would want better picks and/or more players I would think...

  • In reply to Granby:

    Trading the 8th pick for Love is a no brainer, but I doubt that Sacto would trade that pick for Taj, unless ownership goes into win now at any cost mode.

  • In reply to chwtom:


    You take risks on star talent, not decent role players, especially if you are where Sacramento is.

  • If he goes to Sactown and gets them out of the bottom 10 next year, that would be phenomenal.

    Imagine if we can reduce a bit of salary (say, Dunleavy and Snell and possibly one trading away one first, or drafting a foreigner) and land Melo for $15-18 mil as a FA? A team led by Rose, Butler, Melo, Gibson and Noah would be awesome next year.

    But, imagine 2015-2016, with Mirotic and a late lottery pick to add to a team that should make the ECF if Melo were to come?

  • In reply to Granby:

    Excellent perspective on Love to Sacramento possibly getting us that Sac 1st round pick! Also Cleveland with the 2014 No. 1 pick might have a shot to make the playoffs next season allowing Bulls to swap 1st rounders in 2015.

    As you know, I'm all in on the cap space for Melo train, while keeping Gibson. It's taking a page out of Pat Riley's book.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Obviously, you are banking on Rose being healthy and the Bulls being an elite team, otherwise the Cleveland swap isn't worth much if anything at all.

    Also, while Love to Sacto would almost certainly get them out of the bottom 10 next season, it could easily catapult them into the playoffs(the Al Jefferson effect) thus reducing the value of the pick.

    As I've said a number of times, with Sacto having been in the lottery for something like 7 consecutive years, it is almost a statistical certainty that the Bulls will get that pick in the next 3 years even without Love going there.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Unlikely that the Kings make the playoffs with just Love given how good the West is. The Timberwolves have more talent (IMO) and missed the playoffs with Love.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Demarcus Cousins is probably the most talented player on either team including Love. He's got attitude problems but maybe with Love around he gets his stuff together. I'd say that Love and Cousins are more talented than the rest of those 2 rosters combined, and Sacto still has Rudy Gay if he doesn't opt out of $19 million. Just like this year with Charlotte, I want the 11th pick not the 16th.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    IF Sactown pulls this off and rolls with Love and Cousins and Gay (who is NOT opting out, BTW...), they would surely be outside of the bottom 10 teams - even if they are in the west. They'll probably attain pick #11-20 next year, depending on the ping-pong balls, of course.

    Even without Love, they are not an NBA bottom-feeder, so if things go their way they could be close to pick #11 next year... hell, this year they were #8 so that's close.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Actually, we could have two picks again next year. Not only potentially Sactown, but potentially swapping picks with Cleveland if they make the playoffs, which is a distinct possibility given how bad the East is and they have the #1 pick and lot's of young talent.

  • "Bulls may already be out of the bidding[for Kevin Love]."

    If it's true that Love floated out before the draft that he will not resign, and the Wolves countered with requiring a high lottery pick for Kevin then the Bulls had no chance to begin with. That is IF someone is willing to take a chance that Love will resign and wants him. What about Boston at No. 6? Danny Ainge, aside from some personal cache, has salary room next season, and next summer he clears the decks with a bumper crop of free agents hitting the open market. Maybe he sells Love on it.

    Even if the salary wonks don't buy this the point is can and will Lakers(name/rep/location), Orlando(young talent pool and warm year round climate), or a Boston trade their pick in a package for Love?

    Let's suppose teams are reticent to give away the franchise in picks etc. with a guy who has no guarantee he resigns, and a deal can't get done due to say Minny's G.M. being a putz? What would the Bulls then have to offer for Love? You'd think either Taj or Noah would have to be involved plus what our picks or Mirotic? Judging from feedback people think Taj/Noah plus Mirotic would be too much. I'll tell you one thing Boozer and middle firsts IMO are fantasy lead weight pieces you won't unload even though you'd like to for an offensive stat line like Love's.

    Trading Taj's bargain contract or franchise stalwart in Noah seems unlikely especially with Gar/Pax who have shown no signs they can or even have the inclination to get the big deal done. In the end, I would say the odds are slim we get Kevin Love which means I'd rather spend time on some other trade scenarios like combining are picks to move up(not that I'm advocating this), or trading a core player and or picks for pieces we need in other areas as in shooting/scoring. I wonder with Mirotic no sure thing to come over this summer high highly he is valued around the league? Probably more value in keeping him though personally if he doesn't come over this summer I wish we could just get something decent/tangible for him and be done with it.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    I have heard (ad nauseum) on Bulls boards and blogs how if Mirotic was in this draft he would be a high lottery pick. Perhaps so, but I have my doubts. If Mirotic is such a hot property you would think that other teams would be sniffing out the opportunity to take him off the Bulls hands at a discount because of the uncertainty of when or if he decides to play in the US. Yet, in the last three years I don't recall hearing a rumor of other teams being interested enough in him to offer a high draft pick or a quality player. Wouldn't you think that would be the case? Perhaps others with more knowledge on this can chime in on this issue.

    Be that as it may, if Mirotic's rights are so valuable I would dangle those rights now when we can get something valuable in return. Personally, I am tired of waiting on this guy. I am sick of these Eurostash Hamlets.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    So you would prefer the 28th pick in the 2011 draft over Mirotic? That's the pick Bulls originally had until they traded up to 23 and selected Mirotic. That was truly making a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

    Other than drafting a Eurostash and waiting years, how to get elite talent in a draft?
    - Tanking to get a higher pick (lottery pick) which costs no assets and in fact creates an asset. Bulls had an excellent window of opportunity to tank this season but chose not to so we could win a single playoff game, Whoopee!
    - overpaying to trade for a top draft pick, which squanders assets.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I think you misunderstand my point. Assume, for the sake of argument, that Mirotic would be the consensus sixth best player available in the draft. But we don't know when, or even if, he will ever play in the NBA. But sixth best player is serious talent. I would think a team with a mid to low lottery pick would want to grab that talent on the theory they could induce him to play for their team, sooner rather than later. For that they may consider giving up their mid to low lottery pick in this year's draft. Especially if they have another lottery or other decent first round pick available. Perhaps that lottery pick would translate to be Harris or Stauskas. If I were the Bulls I would pursue this type of scenario.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Mirotic won't have as favorable a contract situation as a normal first round pick though which also works against him on top of the fact that you have less certainty of him coming over.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Assuming Mirotic is as advertised, he'll be a nice contract if Bulls can get around $5 mil/yr for 3 or 4 years. I think you could argue that he's worth $7-8 mil annually easy if he's truly one of those rare 90-50-40 shooters and can average 15ppg rather efficiently and stretch the floor for others.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    I am certain that the Bulls have no interest in moving Mirotic under any circumstances other than to obtain a star player. Thats why you haven't heard anybody trying to "steal" him from the Bulls, they are not giving him away for pennies on the dollar.

    Mirotic would definitely be a lottery pick, almost certainly top 10. We will get a proxy on his value when Saric is drafted, and he likely has more contract uncertainty than Mirotic does right now.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    " I wonder with Mirotic no sure thing to come over this summer high highly he is valued around the league?"

    Talent evaluators rarely agree on everything, but IMO most GMs would be thrilled to get the rights to Mirotic. Maybe 15-25% he comes this year, but if not, 96% he comes next year. If you could have Mirotic or anyone from this draft, what players in the draft would you choose over Mirotic? Not many since he is a more proven commodity.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Exactly. Mirotic would be up there with Wiggins, Embiid, Parker and Exum. Probably right behind those guys.

    On this Bulls team, Mirotic would be invaluable next to Noah and with a healthy Rose as a floor spacer. Just what the Bulls need, so he's probably worth more to the Bulls than he is to other teams. They also have a relationship with him with a good situation and coach. He'll come over eventually.

    I doubt Randle, Vonleh or Gordon would go ahead of Mirotic in this draft. His salary will be reasonable at $4-6 mil/year for 2-4 years, you would think. The longer the better at that level. It's contracts like this and like Taj's that allow you to stock up on elite talents like Rose, Melo and Noah.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Wow now, lets not get carried away. I doubt that Mirotic would break into that top 3 or 4 if you include Exum, even though he is less of a risk than Exum. I agree that he could make it into that second group of 3 or 4 Randle, Vonleh and Gordon or Smart. If he didn't break into that group then he would definitely be at the head of the next tier of guys, putting him no worse than 8 or 9, or in other words the Sacto pick that they are willing to give up for Love.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Yes, not saying he's in the top 4, but he'd certainly be 5-8th for sure if Saric is predicted to be just outside that range.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Mirotic could easily turn into a scenario where he never comes over, he's paid quite well in Europe and can command top dollar there plus the life style is better.

    It doesn't seem like the most likely scenario, but there have been other guys who've done that.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    True dat.

    However, given his age and he seems to be a competitor, I bet he comes over. If he's smart, he signs for 2 years and proves himself and then he can make big money by 26. Like, real big money because his skills are way in demand.

  • "Would our offer of Boozer + 2 firsts + Mirotic trump what the Kings are doing?"

    YES! Certainly. Mirotic should be a top 5 pick in this draft - except the Bulls already have him! In fact, the Bulls should land this one with just the Charlotte pick this year and their own pick next year.

    I would definitely do that with a 1-year extension by Love, explaining to him that the Bulls need the extra year to be sure of getting one more elite player for the team. Likely the Bulls could then S&T for Melo, using Taj and Dunleavy in the trade.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Love won't do a one year extention(in fact I've never heard of a one year extention, maybe they are not legal in the CBA), however, as a condition of the trade you can require him to opt into, or not opt out of the 4rth(last) year on his current contract, thus guaranteeing you 2 full years of Love. Chris Paul did this same thing when he went to the Clippers.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    I don't think Mirotic is a top 5 in this draft and he may very well refuse to come over to play in Minnesota.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Refusing to come over and play for/in Minny is the big risk and the only thing that devalues him in a trade for Love. While he isn't top 5, he is top 6-10 so other than the uncertainty that puts him on par with the Sacto pick at 8. I also read that Minny only wants the 8th pick if they can get Vonleh, so they wouldn't make the deal until draft day or after. If you ask me the lower limit on Vonleh is 7, so Minny won't do the deal. So Mirotic and an additional first or perhaps 2 would be a superior offer.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    "Mirotic and an additional first or perhaps 2 would be a superior offer." I totally agree, but I would prefer to make it the Bulls #19 this year and the Sac pick next year (or whenever). However, Minny would probably require the #16 and #19 this year. Come to think of it, that would give the Bulls more cap space this year for Melo.

    As for Mirotic being a top 5 pick this year, we'll never know, of course. However, he is more certain than Exum, altho his ceiling is lower, so some GMs would take him at #4.

    To you, BigWay, and Doug, who would you guys pick over Mirotic outside of the top 4 this year? Randle? Remember, Mirotic is a lights-out shooter at all ranges, plus he is 6'11", plus he rebounds. And he is still a kid, he can get a lot better.

  • In reply to rustyw:


    Personally, I'm not a Parker fan at all - not a skilled athlete, poor defender, conditioning an issue... but I think most GMs would go:

    2. Embiid (if back is fine)
    3. Parker
    4. Exum
    5 Mirotic/Vonleh/Randle/Gordon

    I watched every single Kentucky game. Randle is solid, but has trouble scoring over length and against athletes. His game is in the paint and he will struggle a bit until he develops an outside game. Gordon is an elite NBA athlete but has no offensive game - very raw. Vonleh has the most potential out of the 3 b/c he can shoot. He's the only guy I'd take over Mirotic probably.

    Mirotic is easily the most NBA ready because of his age and his skills are most transferable. He has just as much upside. And, he is the ideal stretch 4, whereas those 3 PFs are on the smaller side and outside Vonleh cannot stretch the floor.

  • Rose, Taj and Noah represents the core of this team as the trio IMO represents All Stars (or near in case of Taj). They are not young anymore so it is a win now core. Anybody else to me can be traded to make the team better next year. Short term, Melo is the guy we want to have. He is the guy who will make us contender next year. Love would be the second best choice IMO, but only if we keep our trio. Long term we have Mirotic and our draft picks. If we cannot sign Melo or Love (legit stars) while keeping Rose, Taj and Noah, we are not in championship contention next year, regardless who we pick in our drafts or whether we bring Mirotic next year. We need stars now to win now!!!

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    Agreed, add stars without squandering assets. Not easy to do, and not many people understand this, but its what is required for this Bulls roster to become a true playoff contender.

    Bulls have got to "hit" on doing something with Boozer! Whether its amnesty to get cap space for Melo, or trade Boozer with picks. If Bulls don't turn Boozer into an excellent asset going forward, this Bulls team will never contend in the near future.

    Can't squander Mirotic after we've waited so long already. Let Sac have Love and deliver us the Sac 1st round pick! (as Granby said above). And Cleveland with the No. 1 pick can hopefully reach the playoffs and Bulls can swap picks in 2015!

  • In reply to Edward:

    They are not going to turn Boozer into an excellent asset going forward, no way, no how, that's not how it works. You don't get an asset for an albatross, let alone an excellent asset. If they get more than a few basketballs for Boozer I'd be very impressed.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    You’re not thinking it through far enough, and apparently you didn’t even read my post clearly.
    - Using a Boozer amnesty as part of a greater cap clearing plan, only if it nets Melo, is a productive use of Boozer.
    - Hold Boozer until the February trading deadline at which point his contract is no longer an albatross with only 2 months’ salary remaining. Things can happen… opportunities can arise…. Packaged with picks in February? There are possibilities. This could be a productive use of Boozer.

    - Amnestying Boozer and signing a middling type player would be a mistake, imo, a wasted opportunity and should be avoided. This would be the worst use of Boozer since it likely wouldn't improve the team significantly. Better to wait on Boozer until February if Bulls can’t get Melo this off-season.

  • In reply to Edward:

    The problem is that a boozer amnesty by itself only provides the Bulls with $11 million in cap space, good enough for what you are calling a middling type player, I guess. To turn boozer into an excellent asset requires giving up several other Bulls assets, either Gibson or multiple #1 picks. You just can't turn something into nothing or in the case of boozer, shit into shinola

  • In reply to BigWay:

    You are aware and informed that amnestying Boozer would be the central move of a larger series of moves to clear the cap space necessary to sign Melo. You even responded to my post where I outlined those numbers and moves, and provided a necessary correction.

    So Come On Now, you know I'm not suggesting solely amnestying Boozer gets Melo in free agency, but that Boozer's best amnesty use is in combination with other smaller cap clearing moves to hopefully clear enough cap space for Melo. Solely amnestying Boozer is what I'm against, not for.

    I’ve described on this blog, in detail, the exact numbers and moves necessary to clear what is (hopefully?) enough cap space to sign Melo while keeping Gibson. Reread it if you need to, but please don't misquote me.

  • Since Love does not play well defensively, Taj may already be just as good as Love. A trade for Love while Taj is not even at his peak--may not be a good decision for Chi.

  • In reply to penwit1:

    I think Taj is at his peak.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    He definitely is at his peak, and people seem to have lost their minds on his value, based on one outstanding game in the playoffs.

    He is a borderline solid starter, who is still undersized for his position. For those of you who remember back to the indy teams of the 90's, is he even as good as either of the Davis brothers, he certainly doesn't have their size or physicality. What about Oakley as a Knick?

  • In reply to penwit1:

    Yes, let's not get carried away here. Love is much better than Taj, although if Taj plays like he did late this season, look out.

  • fb_avatar

    Nobody is trading Gibson and nobody is trading Miritoc. NOAH on the other hand would get the deal done. Trade Noah for Love straight up BULLS win and Minnesota well

  • In reply to Michael Slowik:

    Minnesota doesn't need a center. They have Dieng and another guy. Besides, Bulls aren't trading Noah! Hopefully, Noah's recruitment efforts with Melo bear fruit.

  • I’m not interested in trading away Bulls’ good assets for Kevin Love. Good assets being Taj, Mirotic, draft picks.

    I’m interested in unloading Bulls’ poor assets to create cap space for SF Melo. Amnestying Boozer, unloading SF Dunleavy, unloading SF Snell, and deferring one or both of our draft picks, to offer Melo $16.5 to $17.5 million in free agency.

    With Taj and Mirotic and draft picks still with Bulls, the second plan is far more likely to create a playoff contender than the first plan!

  • In reply to Edward:

    Find it hard to believe you get Melo without getting to at least 19 million.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Butler would have to be disposed of as well to reach that cap space number. But that $19 million number is attainable, by unloading Dunleavy, Snell, Butler, and deferring both draft picks, in addition to a Boozer amnesty of course.

    Currently, with the NBA's April estimate for the salary cap, all those moves give Bulls cap space of $18,796,940. With a little extra bump from the NBA's final salary cap number number in July, $19 million might be within reach.

    This would be a total Pat Riley roster shred, leaving only Rose Noah, Gibson, and Greg Smith on the roster. (unloading Smith would only provide another $440,827 of cap space so hardly worth it, but that could put Bulls near $19.5 million of cap space).

  • In reply to Edward:

    Again, not to berate the point but I don't see how you can get a penny more than $18.3 million. Rose, Noah and Taj make $40 million. 9 cap holds plus Rips .33 add up to $4.9 million, for a total of 44.9. If the cap is 63.2 that leaves 18.3. Thats taking it on faith that for cap purposes you only have to account for 12 roster spots even though the minimum roster requirement is 13 players otherwise you have to subtract another .5 million. Please advise how you are a million over that amount.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    It’s quite simple, actually. Your million dollar error comes from using inaccurately rounded numbers. Use exact dollar figures and you’ll get exact results!

    Rose, Noah and Gibson combine for $ 39,062,876, not $40 million as you incorrectly state. ($18,862,876 + $12,200,000 + $8,000,000 = $39,062,876). You need to make an excel spreadsheet and use exact dollar figures!

  • In reply to Edward:

    Note that Noah and Gibson's salaries are expected to be 750k more than that due to bonuses that were previously viewed as unlikely now viewed as likely under the cap because they were achieved this past season.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    In my earliest post on this topic on your previous article, I did mention a caveat about the potential of cap holds for bonuses negatively effecting cap space. But I have not yet added it to my spreadsheet. Did Taj win an all-defense award? I did not hear anything official. But yes, Noah did win DPOY for a $500k bonus. It's a cap hold so I must add it in. Thanks.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Well, now I know where the discrepancy is, not my rounding error.

    The salary source that I used listed Noah at $13.15 million in 2014/15 which when combined with Rose and Taj equals exactly $40.12 million. Now that Noah has earned his performance bonuses, they are counted into future salary cap projections, so maybe this explains some of the $1 million dollar difference if not all of it. Same would go for Taj if he ends up earning any of his.

    So it seems that someone has to definitively determine both Taj and Noah's cap hits for the 2014-15 season, maybe(likely) they haven't yet been determined by the league.

    The double dose of snark wasn't really necessary, but since you went there, I'll give you some back, maybe you need to get the correct salaries input into your excel spreadsheet. I can still do basic addition in my head, unlike virtually anyone born after 1970..

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Child of the 1960s here...
    Noah is $12,200,000, plus a cap hold of $500,000 for DPOY = $12,700,000.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    The number 12 for minimum roster requirement for calculation of salary cap space comes from Larry Coon's FAQs website. And there's logic to this rule, because upon using that cap space to acquire a player, the team's roster would increase to 13, thereby reaching the league minimum.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    That is my sense also, as I've said, I think that the Bulls will use Rose's salary as a starting point for Melo's. We can get to $18 million without dumping Taj, but not $19 million. But how realistic is it to strip the team of every single asset other than Rose, Noah and Taj without bringing back a single penny in current salary.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Depending on the NBA's exact final salary cap figure in July, Bulls could get to near $19.5 million by stripping every asset besides Rose, Noah and Taj. With the NBA's salary cap estimate from April Bulls that number is $19,237,767.

    However, perhaps your last question about how realistic that roster strip would be should be referred to Pat Riley.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I had actually considered referencing Riley is my question, I figured that nobody around here was confusing Gar/Pax/Dorf with Riley.

    Also, Riley had a plan that he executed over a couple of years, not a one year knee jerk reaction, which is more or less what would be required of the Bulls at this point.

    In the position that the Bulls are in right now, I doubt that even Riley could pull off the logistics of what you have proposed. Just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean it is actually doable or desirable.

    Additionally, I doubt that Riley would consider Rose, Melo and Noah to be the equivalent of Lebron, Wade and Bosh.

    You might strip your entire roster for Lebron or Michael or Magic or Bird or Wilt or Oscar or Kareem or ..., but I don't think that anyone is putting Melo in that class.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Additional evidence of stars being willing to take less to be on a winning team. Chris Bosh says he'll take less to stay in Miami if that's what it takes.

    Come on, Carmelo Anthony, you need to get with the program!
    As Phil Jackson told Melo, "The precedent has already been set, stars take less salary to become winners."

  • In reply to Edward:

    Melo can make $16 mil with Butler or $18 mil without Butler.... that's what it comes down do.

    If I'm Melo, I'd much rather play with Butler, who will guard the best wing player on the opposing team every night for 40+ min per game so he can focus on O.

    Chicago endorsers would line up for Melo...

  • In reply to Granby:

    I totally agree. If Melo comes for $16 Million for his first year, and the Bulls keep Taj and Butler, the Bulls contend (providing Rose if fairly good). Then Mirotic come in a year, making the team better yet.

    Melo will far more than make up the salary difference if the Bulls win a couple of titles.

    Plus he will have a legacy. He claims that is what he wants. If so, a difference in salary of $3 or $4 million is not huge, and he will recapture that anyway.

  • In reply to Edward:

    He also seemed to indicate that simply being in Miami was a big plus. Unfortunately, Chicago doesn't have the same sex appeal or income tax benefits, or Lebron for that matter. The big 3 took about a million dollar plus per year discount, Melo would be looking at 3-4 depending on whether the Bulls true max number is $18.3 million or $19.3 million.

  • I'm not sure Taj + #16 doesn't trump Sacramento's #8.

    Not that I necessarily believe SAC really wants to throw away the #8 pick in a stacked draft for a 1-year rental of any player, no matter how good he is.

  • for anyone who thinks that Lance Stephenson is the answer to our problems, read this.

    I love the part about freindly fire rebounds, i.e. boozer rebounds.

    A: Hibbert didn't come out and identify the player directly to's David Aldridge, but he was talking about Lance Stephenson on March 28 after a loss in Washington, when he said "there's some selfish dudes" in the locker room.

    Stephenson was putting together a strong season for the Pacers, racking up triple-doubles and maturing into their second-best talent behind Paul George. But Stephenson felt jilted when the Eastern Conference coaches did not vote him onto the All-Star team in February. He doesn't always appreciate the ramifications of his actions; his recent attempt to "get inside LeBron James' head" with trash talk during the conference finals is a classic example.

    After Stephenson missed out on the All-Star team, he changed. He started a bit of a personal vendetta against East coaches, wanting to personally send a message in those games, which took him further out of the flow on some nights, sources said. Overall, the team noticed a shift in Stephenson from a more team-oriented approach to a more self-oriented focus, where he started obsessing about his statistics. People within the team believed his upcoming free agency was also a motivating factor for Stephenson, who wanted to enhance his value, something he believed suffered when he didn't get an All-Star nod.

    As a result, Stephenson started annoying his teammates at both ends. Not only did he start dominating the ball more -- his assist rate dropped dramatically in the second half of the season -- but he was robbing numbers from his teammates. He has always had a habit of so-called "stealing rebounds," jumping in front of or over a teammate who had an uncontested rebound to get it for himself. This phenomenon reached a new level in the back half of the regular season. Hibbert, who had his rebound totals heavily analyzed by the media and fans, was often a victim in these friendly-fire rebounds.

    Stephenson's act had long worn thin by late March. When the players had meetings to address issues with the sudden struggles, Stephenson sometimes wasn't involved. Occasionally he appeared to be unaware they were even happening. Most players on the team, now that they were losing, shared similar feelings about Stephenson, but did not vocalize their problems publicly.

    Lance Stephenson best case scenario, Steven "the human jackass" Jackson, worst case JR Smith after his contract year.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Stephenson was never the type of player you would win championships because of, but the idea was that he could still develop into one. So much for that.

  • Hey Doug, Check this out!
    Additional evidence of stars being willing to take less to be on a winning team. Chris Bosh says he'll take less to stay in Miami if that's what it takes.

    Come on, Carmelo Anthony, you need to get with the program!
    As Phil Jackson told Melo, "The precedent has already been set, stars take less salary to become winners."

  • In reply to Edward:

    Why don't you go look up Kobe's quotes about taking less money.

    If we compare the history of players taking less to players taking the most they can then it's probably about 100:1 ratio of players getting as much as they can.

    Given Anthony's past, I see no indication that he's a guy who wants to take less, certainly not so much less that he's at 14 million per year.

    Other stars taking "less" money have typically taken a million or two less. I agree Anthony might do that, but that still puts him in the 19 million range. He's not going to take something like 30 million less over the life of his contract IMO.

    Not for the Bulls. Our situation isn't that airtight to win.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Interestingly enough, last week I read something at one of the basketball sites I follow that someone who is familiar with Carmelo said that he has a history of telling reporters and others what they want to hear. I don't have a link nor do I know the credibility of the person who reported this, but I tend to give this some credence in that I know people who do this habitually. Sure, Carmelo wants to win but I can't see him taking a huge discount to what he can otherwise get.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yes, Bulls are an unknown because of Rose. If Melo rolls the dice on Rose and takes less so that Butler and Gibson can stay, this team is legit. If Rose is healthy and 90% of his MVP form, Bulls would win a ton of games (65+) and I'd be stunned if they do not make a strong run at The Finals. They should win it all, depending on how they fill out the roster, IMO. Plus, Mirotic coming over the following year for MLE.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I've read that Melo's max is a contract starting at $22.5 million in year 1. The Bulls best offer, even after a complete strip down of the entire roster would start at somewhere between $18-19 million, or $3-4 million discount per season. I agree with you in that I will believe it when I see it, especially from Melo, who didn't leave a single penny on the table when he forced his way to NY.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Yes, I'll believe it when I see it, too. However, Melo is probably not getting a max deal from New York, either.

    So, if NY offers $19 mil/yr and Bulls are at $17 mil/yr, I think he has to think about coming to Chicago. The Knicks will be terrible for at least one more year. He doesn't have too many peak years left before he starts to decline and at that point he'll have to play second fiddle to some other star if he wants to win.

    Melo is at a definite cross-roads. Phil knows that signing Melo for 5 years means that the 4th and 5th years may hurt. The problem is that the Knicks will definitely suck in year 1 and possibly even years 2 and 3 of this contract. I honestly think that Melo will look around to Chicago and possibly Houston in order to win. He's made his money and endorsements will play a big role as well and Chicago will LOVE Melo if he's a winner.

  • Melo's salary for 2013-14 was $21,388,593
    If he doesn't opt out the salary for his final contract year 2014-15 with Knicks is $23,333,404.

    Phil has already said he's expecting Melo to take a pay cut in his next contract. And, imo, I find it unlikely any other team pays Melo in the $20s. So why is Anthony indicating he will opt out? Because I don't see Melo getting that $23.3 number in any new contract, Knicks or elsewhere. Why doesn't he just play another year on his current contract at $23.3?

    He wants a higher salary? (if so I think Melo will be disappointed).
    One extra year is he resigns with Knicks, instead of extending with Knicks? (that doesn't seem enough to bother with after Phil told him he'll get a pay cut in his next contract).

    Or is opting out because Melo truly wants to change teams?
    Has Melo officially opted out yet?

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