Bulls and Knicks talking Melo? Unlikely

Bulls and Knicks talking Melo?  Unlikely

I hesitate to even mention it because of the source, but it's still perhaps the most interesting Bulls story floating around the net. The Bulls and Knicks are rumored to be discussing a trade which would bring Carmelo Anthony to Chicago prior to the trade deadline.

The original link is over at Hoops Nation which strikes me as a source more likely to make up a story to troll for hits than one with genuine connections into the NBA trade pipelines. It's also worth noting that Mark Stein said there was no chance of a deadline deal between the teams, and Stein's pretty connected.

That said, the suggested parameters of the trade are:

Bulls get:
Melo, Felton, Shumpert (total: $27,020,726)

Knicks get:
Boozer, Hinrich, Snell, Butler, 1st ($21,880,920)

That's close enough to make the salaries work. However, the trade makes little sense. I'm sure the Knicks wouldn't mind dumping Felton in a rebuilding situation, but why include Shumpert? The Knicks seem likely to get some positive value back for him in another trade, so there's no need to dump him.

In fact, the same trade makes a lot more sense if you remove Felton + Shumpert and include J.R. Smith. The Knicks would love to part ways with Smith at this point, who's contract is more significant and whom is playing much worse than either guy in the trade. Granted, the Bulls would need to pick up two minimum players instead of one in that scenario.

Also, the return for Melo seems a bit on the small side. Boozer's a 16.8 million dollar penalty next season. Hinrich expires (makes sense), Snell is some type of asset I suppose, but certainly not worth much. Butler's a nice player, but he's far, far away from a special player, not a future all-star type player, and his cheap deal has but one year left on it.

They get a 1st rounder thrown in, even if it's the better of the Bulls/Charlotte pick this season, that's not a great. To be honest, I'm not even sure Snell + Butler + pick as a positive is worth all that much more than simply the negative of taking Boozer on for next season. Granted, the Knicks will save massive amounts of tax money with this trade (probably 20 million or so), but Boozer will cost them far more than that next year when his entire salary will be in tax land.

Effectively Boozer would cost the Knicks something on the order of 30-50 million next year depending how deep the team is in the tax. Maybe the Knicks love the pieces they're getting back, but how on Earth do you justify sticking Boozer's 17 million in the luxury tax for that type of return? Quite simply, you don't. The trade barely makes basketball sense if you KNOW that Melo won't resign. Financially it's a train wreck.

Maybe the Knicks have already given up on Melo resigning, but I'd bet the Lakers would give up Pau Gasol and a top 8 protected pick this year for Melo which would probably be a better return and save the Knicks perhaps 50 million dollars vs the Bulls deal. Of course, much like Chicago, L.A. would likely want a commitment from Melo.

Which then gets down to where will Melo be willing to go? Is L.A. with rehabilitating Kobe on his list? Does he think they'll turn it around fast enough to compete for the title? Will he be willing to land in Chicago? Maybe either one? Who knows.

What I do know is this. The parameters of a trade that have been laid out make little sense for the Knicks. In fact, I'm not sure you can come up with any parameters that make sense for both teams right now which is why all the NBA experts are saying a trade isn't going to happen right now.

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  • Carmelo Anthony loves money and disfunctional owner James Dolan loves Carmelo Anthony. They deserve each other. A match made in heaven. He's not going anywhere. Case closed.

  • uh, of course this is garbage. He alternates between directly citing a 'source' and mentioning 'the report'. He probably just copied it from some other place that can't read properly.

  • There is a lot of nonsense floating around. Like CHI wanting Lin and his huge contract next season to be backup for DRose. I think this rumor is likely nonsense, but all the Melo rumors came from somewhere (his agent, him, or CHI). If this deal was actually being discussed, this would imply that Melo told NYK he will be leaving, else they would not trade him. If that happened, and he was not going to commit to an extension now, then the value for NYK will be low. They will either lose him later at the end of their losing season, or get any assets they can for him now in a place that will take a rental for this season. Assuming that the LAL and CHI destinations are true; LAL will not rent him for their losing season this year. CHI might. LAL and CHI would both only trade their best assets for Melo if he signed an extension as part of the exchange. Assuming that is off the table, NYK could do a lot worse than a 1st round pick this year. Boozer would need to be part of any trade to make it work since CHI would not gut their roster for a rental and he is rumored to be on his way out. NYK would not want Boozer's next year salary. A third team (maybe PHX or SA possibly) might trade an expiring for Boozer and the expiring could go to NYK. There are rumors of Boozer talk elsewhere. If there is ANY truth behind it, this blockbuster is not a 2 team trade scenario. NYK still have Amare for next year and 2 high salary PF does not make sense and would cost them a ton in luxury taxes. LAL will not trade Gasol for a rental. LAL would need to trade other expirings and players like Nash that has been injured most of this year. NYK will not want more injured/older players if they are being forced to a post-Melo rebuild. CHI likely has the better assets to trade for a rental right now, but NYK will not get a lot for Melo unless he is extending. I doubt he will do that during the season. He has been waiting to be a FA for a while.

  • In reply to tomeboy28:

    Very good point on Melo not wanting to extend.

  • In reply to tomeboy28:

    If we trade for him at the deadline, don't we get his bird rights and offer Melo the most money and the best chance to win?

  • Every league source you hear says no chance Melo gets moved. And every trade deadline article you read says little to no movement expected period with the draconian salary cap now in place. Thank you small market, unrealistic, profit not fan oriented owners. You rock.

    Aside from trades the only real excitement is seeing whether the Bulls will get the Charlotte pick doubling their chances of getting a nice player in an offensive talent loaded draft.

    Personally, I don't see multiple superstars in this draft. Jabari Parker though an enigma with his tweener size and not awesome lateral quickness or athleticism, yet as a freshman his winning attitude and undeniable prolific offensive and rebounding production make him seem a likely future all-star IMO. Wiggins looks like a future all-star as well, but does he have the desire and presence to be a superstar?

    Embiid could end up being a perennial all-star type of talent, but he Parker, and Wiggins will all certainly be out of the Bulls reach at possibly 15ish(Charlotte) and 17-18 neighborhood with their own pick.

    Let's face it most, championship winning franchises begin with a perennial all-star or super star type of player being drafted(Pierce, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, and Kobe - who might as well have been their draft pick as he was stolen as such from Charlotte).

    So, of course, hoping Derrick recovers and can play at least decent basketball again 17ppg 45% skipping the threes essentially, which he can't shoot, and say 7apg. And if he doesn't "the draft's the thing" as Will S. might have said were he here today and jonesing for an NBA championship if not simply offensive star power to watch on a nightly basis..

    Thing is, with such an increase in statistically credentialed and scout confirmed NBA talent, with two picks the Bulls odds of landing an offensively talented player are much higher then usual even at 15-17.

    A draft junkie myself, I'd like to think there are at least one or two very good bets on success that even I can detect with this proliferation of offensively gifted college players. As of right now 1) Joseph Young - Oregon, and 2) Kyle Anderson UCLA. Honorable mentions to T.J. Warren and C.J. Wilcox. Similar to Klay Thompson(in circumstance only), Young is not yet on draft boards(NBADraft.net and DraftExpress) far into the NCAA season.. But he will be. 30 points in one half against Arizona State. Good presence and attitude. Looks like a good pro in waiting to me. Though Kyle Anderson would have to be my first choice if he's there at 15-17...

  • Sir, how dare you use the words "Sense" and "Knicks" in the same sentence. For shame….

    In all seriousness, I can't see the Knicks taking that package. The Knicks don't subscribe to NBA logic as much as they do to "New York" logic and the truth is they would need a one word name player that they can slap on the marquis.

    To me, the Bulls offseason should go one of two ways, 1) Use the cap space created by Jettisoning Deng and Boozer ( waiver exemption) and over spend on a player you hope grows into "top 3" player capability.- The only person that fills that bill in my eyes is Pacers' Lance Stephenson. The other way to go is to realize a successful Thibs team dominates with their bench- And use the cap space to overspend on your 7th, 8th, and 9th guys.

    Other things have to happen, you need to hit on a draft pick that will most likely be around 18. And then there's the whole Mirotic thing…….so many questions. Probably best to tackle them in the offseason.

  • In reply to felzz:

    "I can't see the Knicks taking that package"

    I don't see Waste Management taking that package on a Thursday morning, let alone another NBA team.

    If someone is taking Boozer off the Bulls' hands, they're taking multiple first round picks along with him, at a minimum. Even then, you'd risk tainting one of those picks with a year of 'gimme that s__t, rookie'; mitigating the value in asking for the pick in the first place.

    I'd buy a Melo for Bosh trade scenario before I believe Boozer is the key to getting Melo (or any other all-star) in a trade.

    That said, this involves Dolan, who is firmly entrenched in the Tyson Zone. So, who knows what will happen.

  • In reply to Salvamini:

    "I don't see Waste Management taking that package on a Thursday morning, let alone another NBA team."

    Awesome, I'm jealous that I didn't come up with that one myself.

    How can anyone(other than the BozoHole himself) even say Boozer and Hinrich for Melo with a straight face. Even if it was a one game rental for the Bulls it would still be a horrendous deal for the Knicks.

  • In reply to Salvamini:

    By the way, I'm not ragging on Doug for bringing it up, since it is out there somewhere in fantasy land, we might as well discuss it for laughs if nothing else.

  • In reply to felzz:

    There's a good chance Mirotic becomes the guy they overspend on.

  • I still believe the only free agent prospect the Bulls should try is Lance Stephenson. All other players available won't make the Bulls better, given what the Bulls will have to give up IMO.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    I tend to agree, except if Carmelo would sign with Chicago for $18 million per, rather than $22.5 million per. I doubt he will, tho. In that case, Taj would have to go.

    Taj and Stephenson together might be better than Carmelo, and their combined salary would be less. Add Mirotic and the Bulls will rock.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Stephenson is a bit of a question mark as to how he will translate to our team. Do we get the 15 ppg version with good percentages or does he struggle to adjust to a bigger role like Jimmy Butler and have his percentages dive. Contract year wonders always worry me.

    Melo you know would put up 30 ppg for us maybe a little less if Rose returns to all star form.

  • In reply to Chad:

    Correct about Melo getting 30 ppg for the Bulls -- maybe even more, since Rose and Augustine would feed him. Rose could lead the NBA in assists!

    So, Melo is more of a sure thing. At more than double the cost of Lance. So the Bulls will have to move Taj to afford him.

    I would tell his agent that, if the Bulls win the Finals, Melo will earn an extra $10 million per from endorsements! So he can sign for $18 million per and still come out ahead.

  • I'm in the camp that says there is no way that the Knicks can afford to lose the amount of face that they'd be losing if they trade Melo before the deadline. They(Dolan/New York City) are way to arrogant/full of themselves to ever let that happen.

    Unless someone offers them Lebron or Durant, Melo isn't going anywhere in February.

  • Today's Bulls headline,

    Boozer to miss third straight game with ego in mouth disease.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Tomorrow's Headline, BozoHole misses third straight game, Bulls don't even notice, except that it sure has been quite during the game lately.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Probably the most positive comment I've ever seen attributed to Mirotic.

    Nikola Mirotic: "Chicago wants me and it's doing a great effort for me; a decision will be made soon." Marca.com

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Subject for tomorrow's article, but scary some of the numbers thrown around in that article.

  • Three way trade that makes sense for all sides involved. This is assuming Melo has given the Knicks an indication that he wants out of New York.

    Bulls Receive: Carmelo Anthony
    Knicks Receive: Emeka Okafor, CHA Pick, SAC Pick, CHI 2016 Pick
    Suns Receive: Carlos Boozer

    Bulls get their prolific scorer. Off-course, Melo has to agree to an extension. If Melo does land in Chicago by the deadline, then the Bulls can make a serious run in the post-season, with or without Rose. It seems like the Bulls just lack a go to scorer, which Melo is obviously the second best scorer in the league behind Durant.

    Knicks get an expiring and multiple draft picks to ease the rebuilding phase. I'm sure the Knicks wouldn't want salary commitments in return, and will probably prefer to start over in the 2015 Free Agency and get valuable draft picks along the way.

    Suns get a productive big-man to help them make a deep run at the playoffs. I believe Boozer will do really well under Hornacek, since he runs similar schemes to Sloan's. Boozer will only have one year left on his contract, therefore if he's had a productive post-season with the Suns, he can be used as a trade bait to help land the Suns a disgruntled young All-Star.

  • In reply to BullsFTW:

    I like your trade! However, a few tweaks --
    1) Make it the Bulls 1st rounder this year instead of the Charlotte pick. If the Bulls get Carmelo now, they will be picking in the 20s.
    2) Maybe they could keep the SAC pick and get the Suns to throw in one of their 4 1sts this year. The Bulls could send out two future 2nd round picks (from the Deng trade).
    3) Does this trade keep the Bulls under the cap? If not, include Murphy or Hinrich to get under!

    That trade I might do even without the extension.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    I think the Knicks will only entertain the idea if the CHA Pick was involved, which I don't mind my trading away for a all-star player like Melo.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    The Knicks will definitely want the CHA Pick, which I don't mind at all, if it means the Bulls landing an All-Star like Melo. Fillers will have to be included in the deal to max salaries match, but that will not be a problem.

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