Marquis Teague trade brings us 600k closer to a FA... sort of

Marquis Teague trade brings us 600k closer to a FA... sort of

That's really about the end of what the Bulls got for Marquis Teague. Out of his low cost contract for next year, so low that even the vet minimum cap hold will only be around 600k less than what he's making.

Still, the Bulls got a shade more breathing room this season under the tax while opening up a tiny bit more cap room next season. I think we'd seen enough of Teague to feel confident with that trade. Teague just doesn't look like an NBA caliber player. A guy as young as he is who didn't show any real improvement over two years? Just not likely to get it done.

It's still early in his career. He'll still have a shot. I found him to be a likable, enthusiastic kid when I talked to him at media day the past couple of seasons, but he wasn't able to improve his jumper or finishing ability and remains a player with great speed, but not much else. Brooklyn will need to hope they can get more out of him than Chicago, and perhaps the trade will serve as a wake up call for Teague.

As for the Bulls, well they open up just a shade more cap room to pursue free agents next season. The Bulls would need to open up more cap room in order to pursue LeBron or Carmelo (Gibson or Noah would have to be traded as well as Boozer amnestied), and it doesn't seem like Melo's a Bulls guy or that LeBron would consider coming here.

Using cap space also means Mirotic can't come over, so the situation wouldn't be so appealing either as the Bulls front court would be down to just whomever is left between Noah/Gibson. In short, the Bulls will likely have no real money to pursue free agents. To open up more cap room than the MLE, the Bulls would have to amnesty Boozer and wait on Mirotic.

That combination leaves them with a very thin front court. That's just to get to the 12 million dollar range for a mid tier guy like Deng or Stevenson. In short, the Bulls need to either keep Boozer or bring over Mirotic so that they still have a solid group in the front court which means they'll have maybe seven million max left.

In short, while the Deng trade opened up some intriguing possibilities, it will be difficult to cash in on any of them in free agency. The Bulls have a better shot of pulling off a trade. The move of Teague probably doesn't help overly much with that, but Teague likely wasn't viewed as an asset in a trade for them, so a little extra cap relief they can offer someone may still help.


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  • Is this what pro basketball talk has descended to? Just a conversation about money?

  • In reply to Aquinas wired:

    Yep. Reality is that the cap limits the money teams can spend for players, so that limits the players a team can get. FOs have to be really creative to stay competitive, especially when a star player goes down with a major injury. The Bulls are paying for a star who cannot play -- which is a huge handicap!

    But there are still players to be drafted and trades to be made, so fans can do some dreaming.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Exactly. People who don't care to discuss the financial implications of a trade or free agent signing are pretty useless in any serious conversation.

    Ignorant people bitch about the Bulls letting players go just for the savings, while ignoring the fact that the "high-paying" teams they point to- the Knicks and the Heat- do the exact GD thing.

    The Knicks didn't match the offer sheet to Lin (the exact same contract the Bulls didn't match for Asik). The Heat amnestied Mike Miller just to save money.

  • Said in the slow, staccato voice of Eeyore(Winnie the Pooh) or Droopy(Hanna Barbera). "What a shock. Bulls will have a difficult time doing anything in free agency, no solid offensive players being brought in. Please enjoy Tony Snell, Jimmy Butler, Kirk Hinrich, and.. Cartier Martin."

    I hear you Droopy. If you really existed undoubtedly you would be a Bulls fan no doubt.Meanwhile, Look at the seasons Marco Bellinelli, Nate Robinson, and C.J. Watson are having. I guess the Bulls are better off dumping all of them for the overpriced contract of Kirk the old injury f-ing Hinrich.

    You wanna be a faithful Bulls fan and tune in regardless of the Rose injury(ies) then at least give me some continuity of players to like for a while longer then a f-ing bus stop. Belinelli was a likable guy to watch(though his numbers less then stellar efficiency wise). Nate Robinson was over stereotyped for being a low class, unreliable lunkhead. In reality, more times then not he was an entertaining player to watch, and a decent guy to his teammates as far as I could see. C.J. despite the Philly game where he was left high and dry IMO with no other ball handler besides Rose to handle a late game must produce situation. C.J. as he's showing with the Pacers is a smooth legit NBA offensive player.

    If not for the hype of the Summer of LeBron otherwise known as 2010 FA, Bulls never would have acquired legit offense building guys like C.J., Kyle Korver etc. It was a half-assed effort as it turned out Rose was paired with Bogans and R(est) I(n) P(eace) Hamilton. Drafting Teague and Snell along with Butler were placating moves. Snell and Butler may be functional NBA players, but their offensive viability for a contending(let alone entertaining) team is non-existent.

    The non-homer will tell you, "JImmy Butler is a joke offensively. He's only hyped because he plays in Chicago. Low draft pick - who gives a shit he has no offensive game in terms of quality i.e efficiency. In two of his three NBA seasons he's shooting .182 and .297 from three. Are you f-ing kidding me. He couldn't drive on somebody in a half court setting to save his life. This guys sucks offensively as in he's a stiff. And Tony Snell with his joke ass resume will NEVER be an offensively desirable NBA player. Never. At best low volume 40% overall FG% with a myriad of no show passive nights ala college aka NOT A PROFESSIONAL screaming from his college career.

    Please somehow remove Jerry Reinsdorf from involvement with decisions regarding the Chicago Bulls and pray his son post Jerry will do things in a more fan friendly way i.e bring in some actual offensively talented players. First official act firing dolts Paxson and Forman. And preferably somebody buy the Bulls who isn't beholden to Dr. Zhivago, the family of Irma Guildensteen, Wally at the gas station over to Mt. Pilot etc. What a f-ed up ownership structure.

    Again I repeat. The Bulls offensively have brought in shitty, low ceiling players in Teague, Snell, and Butler. Homer fans who talk themselves into thinking these guys are entertaining offensively are boring schlubs who wouldn't no a good time if it came up and bit them on the ass.

    As far as the draft if they draft one more low ceiling, poor resume wing, or even a Taj/Joakim light with limited offensive skills, game I will bide my time until the moment I can void a can of freshly consumed Heinekn on J.R.'s grave. Bulls homer schlub posters: WAKE THE FUCK UP!. Demand some entertaining legit offensive NBA players. Please. This enabling must stop. Real fans don't settle for lousy offensive players. Neither should you.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Agreed. I think the core of the problem is that in order to win championships in this league you need a championship level front office. That is to say, GMs who have the intelligence and nerve to identify the players to win and then make it happen through trades or FA acquisitions. All Paxson has working for him is that 1) he was lucky enough to be a mediocre point guard playing next to the greatest player ever, and 2) the requisite ass-kissing loyalty necessary to be a Reinsdorf stooge (sorry, "employee").

    But for the supreme luck of landing Rose, Paxson would have been fired years ago for clueless FA moves (Wallace, Hamilton, Boozer, Hinrich). The draft-day trade for Tyrus alone should have been proximate cause for termination. Not to mention the choking of his coach, who never should have been hired in the first place. In short, this team needs fresh blood in the FO as any business would.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    "The supreme luck of landing Rose" that is downright comical.

    The Heat got lucky that LeBron and Bosh conspired together to go to Miami. How's #2 overall pick Mike Beasley working out? Isn't taking Beasley ahead of Love and Westbrook just as fireable an offense as taking Tyrus instead of Aldridge?

    The Thunder got lucky that the Blazers took Oden instead of Durant. The Grizz took Hasheem freaking Thabeet one spot ahead of Harden. Beasley and OJ Mayo were drafted immediately ahead of Westbrook.

    The Spurs got lucky to win the lottery with the 3rd worst record.

    The Lakers got lucky to win a coin toss with the Bulls to draft Magic instead of David Greenwood.

    Nobody does anything without some good luck, but obviously a lot of Bulls fans completely ignore what happens with the other 29 NBA teams.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    This is a bullshit analysis: 1) Beasley was rated by most scouts as the first or second best player in the draft; 2) Oden was the consensus # 1 pick; 3) the Spurs were not "lucky", they had the third worst record; 4) winning the coin toss was a 50/50 proposition. The Bulls were lucky because they had only a 1.7% chance of landing that pick. The odds of this happening are qualitatively different than the other examples you gave, which are examples of outcomes due to injuries (Oden) or bad choices (Thabeet), not numerical luck.

    You love to often use the term "ignorant fans" or condescendingly use the term "average fan" as if you are some sort of super-knowledgeable fan with superior insight. Sorry pal. Come back to planet Earth.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    Boozer was a career 18/10 player (approximately) and multiple time All-Star.

    Ben Wallace was coming off 2 straight Defensive Player of the Year awards, 4 straight All-Star games and 5 straight All-NBA and All-Defense appearances.

    That doesn't make them be good signings any more than Beasley or Thabeet or Oden being consensus ANYTHING makes them good picks.

    Anyone can play the "what if" game, just like anyone can bitch about the few bad moves a front office has made while completely ignoring the outstanding ones.

    It does make good comic relief, though.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Boozer had a history of getting injured and was always a liability on defense. Wallace was declining in his performance and was always a liability on offense. You don't put your big chips on players like this. I do not ignore good moves. Like any other endeavor, good moves should always be weighed against bad moves. Hollinger should quantify GM's performance like he does players.
    IMO, an outstanding GM is someone like Morey who puts his money on "ascending" players like Harden and Dwight in their early or middle twenties. That's not a what-if game. That's smart.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    "An outstanding GM like Morey"- what has his team ever accomplished? They've made the playoffs once in the last 5 years (losing in the first round), and are the 5th seed right now, which means they aren't even favored to win a playoff series.

    He's paying $16.6 million this season to a part-time starter (Lin) and a guy who barely played (Asik) and who they couldn't trade when the whole world knew he was available.

    It's actually funny, Boozer is giving the Bulls more production than Lin and Asik combined, for the same salary.

    And Howard is 28, which is most certainly in his late 20's, not early or middle. He's one year younger than Boozer was when the Bulls signed him.

    Love Morey all you want, just let me know when his team accomplishes one GD thing.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Don - good points.

    Bulls were lucky to get Jordan b/c Houston took Hakeem (worked out in the end, but they would rather have had MJ) and Portland took Sam Bowie.

    The same will happen with the 2014 draft. At least 6 guys are supposed to be great... not LeBron or Durant great, but perennial all-stars.

    But, there will be a guy or two that will suck. You wait!

  • In reply to Granby:

    Thanks, and there are just too many variables for me to support a tank job from a team that is still good enough to easily make the playoffs.

    There are lots of Hall of Famers who weren't picked top-5 in their draft, and lots of top-5 picks that turned out to be complete busts.

    Just look at some of the Hall of Famers inducted since 2009, and where they went in the draft:
    Chris Mullin 7th
    Reggie Miller 11th
    Dennis Rodman 27th
    Karl Malone 13th
    John Stockton 16th

    Like you said, there are certain to be a few busts very near the top of this year's "loaded draft" as well.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    You're forgetting the luck the Spurs had in David Robinson getting injured. David Robinson was mostly healthy all bar one season out of 14. Multiply that out by the odds of the Spurs actually winning the lottery and they had a worse than 1.7% chance to get Duncan.

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    In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Thank you. Finally someone is able to grasp that Jimmy Butler is a fraud. I remember doing a google search in july 2013, 'jimmy butlet is overrated'. I couldn't find a single link. Only on Chicago, where hope trumps the eye test. I would keep Boozer ahead of Jimmy bucknots. Sorry bigway.. First time posting, love the blog. Along with cubs den.

  • I know Bulls fans are kind of getting ready for Lance Stephenson but there's tons of teams with cap space and one of those will overpay him. Listening to Pax doing an interview a few weeks ago, he mentioned "depth" with the names of Asik and Korver for past Bulls team. I think this means he's going to go bargain free agent hunting, maybe get a Paul Pierce or Brandon Rush on a one year deal. The Garpax blue light special, 2 year deal for a washed up vet while more talented players like Nate Robinson and Augustin go elsewhere and of course drafting a body clone of some player who's contract is about to be up. Haven't we seen this movie before? The Bulls need better guard play and a legit backup center, can they deliver? Jimmy Butler is no shooting guard, he looks uncomfortable shooting or dribbling at times. I do like Tony Snell as a guard/shooter but they still need a tall combo guard who can slide taking over ball handling duties while Rose plays off the ball. Offensive gifted guard scorers/creators and a backup legit 7 footer have to be the main focus this offseason.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    1) You are correct, Butler should not be at SG. He belongs at SF, where he does much better.
    2) A little history. In one draft, Pax got Ben Gorden, Deng, and Duhon, plus he picked up Nocioni as a FA.

    Then, the year after Miami won the title with Shaq, the Bulls swept Miami out of the playoffs, and Deng and Noce each averaged about 25 pts per game in that series. Pax looked like a GM of the year candidate. A lot of us felt the Bulls were a player away from a good shot at a ring.

    However, from that point on, Pax has made a LOT of bad decisions, which have repeatedly cost the chance to make a leap up in talent. He had enough winners, too, to probably make him an average GM, but that does not win championships!

    3) As for the Gs, the Bulls got Watson and Lucas; they left, and the team got Belli and Nate; they left, and the FO got Dunleavy and Augustine. Therefore, the FO can find solid backup Gs. In fact, there is talk of trading Dunleavy for a 1st round pick.

    The real issue here is, the Bulls have needed the star SG for ever, and he has yet to show up!

  • Augustin- 16.4 PER, .554 TS%, 14.3 pts 7.7 ast (per 36)
    Robinson- 16.2 PER, .543 TS%, 18.8 pts 4.5 ast (per 36)
    Watson - 13.2 PER, .556 TS%, 12.3 pts 3.4 ast (per 36)

    People bitched and moaned when CJ left, and Nate outperformed him. People bitched and moaned when Nate left, and DJ is outperforming him.

    I'm pretty sure some people just like to bitch and moan. The evidence certainly says that's the case.

    Nate and CJ are both 7th on their teams in minutes per game. If anyone thinks either of these guys are the difference in winning a championship, they are delusional.

    7th men are pretty much interchangeable in today's NBA, as GarPax keeps proving.

    If anything, it seems to me as if Pacers fans should be bitching that they let DJ go and replaced him with CJ, since DJ is having the much better year.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Augustin is better than Nate was? You've got to be kidding!

  • In reply to Aquinas wired:

    No, I'm just not blinded by a few good playoff games (that were cancelled out by 28% shooting in the final 4 games vs Miami), I look at the entire season.

    I look at how well a PG sets up other players for easy shots, and DJ is so much better at it than Nate, it's downright comical.

    Again, my point stands- the average fan ONLY looks at "points scored" as if it is the only relevant statistic to a player's worth.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    You know I wondered why you kept using such a lame ass antiquated phrase like "bitch and moan" but then I realized it all makes sense. Your "narcissistic" wife bitches until you leave, and then moans when the other guy comes over.

  • Yes, but Hinrich has a PER of 9.68 and is getting paid twice as much as Robinson or Watson (nice going Pax). And you wonder why "people bitch and moan?"

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    But Hinrich is also at least twice the defender that Nate or CJ or even DJ are. That is worth something, though the average fan only looks at offensive numbers.

    Hinrich also comes off the books after this season, Nate and CJ are both signed for next season too, at over $2 million.

    If you want to just look at his year's salary and PER, then yes Hinrich looks like a bad deal. If you want to include other important things like length of contract, defense, leadership, character, flexibility (do you want Nate or CJ guarding a SG? of course not)... it's pretty much a wash.

    Or close enough to a wash that people shouldn't be acting like it's anything more than a minor, minor detail.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Yes, it is clear to me that Hinrich was a "bad deal." And whatever defense he plays does not make him a better value than Nate, who the Bulls couldn't resign, in part, because of Hinrich's contract. Nate won a ton of games for us last year and also got us into the second round of the playoffs. Hardly a "minor detail."

    No, the "average fan" does not only look at offensive numbers. The average fan also knows that Boozer is probably the worst contract in the league even though he puts up respectable scoring/rebound averages.

  • In reply to hgarbell:

    The Bulls could have easily dumped Hinrich's contract last summer and kept Nate, but why? Thibs would rather play Hinrich than Nate, obviously. And for good reason, Nate is a one trick pony who will shoot you out of more games than he shoots you into.

    There's a reason Nate couldn't get but 1/2 of what Hinrich makes when he was an UFA, Denver was the only team interested. There's a reason Hinrich had another offer in the summer of 2012 and the Bulls had to pay him what he makes, there was other interest out there from Milwaukee.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Right. Milwaukee has the worst FO in the NBA. Good comparison. I also doubt your claim that the Bulls could have "easily" gotten rid of Hinrich's contract. I must have been out of the country when that happened.
    I am going out on the limb here and stating that the majority of posters on this sight would much rather have Nate on the Bulls at $2 M per year than Hinrich at $4M per year.

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    In reply to hgarbell:

    You can count me as one of the clueless few who'd rather have Kirk than Nate. Why? Because having Nate out there at the end of games means you have a streaky scorer who doesn't play defense trying to finish off victories. How is it that virtually no one wants Boozer playing in fourth quarters (including Thibs) but everyone wants Nate or (amazingly) Ben Gordon as closers who are only marginally more effective offensively? Because they're not rim protectors?

    Oh yeah - one more thing. Any game where Snell doesn't play 20 minutes is a failure in my view, win or lose. Developing him in a year when, in spite of Jo's heroic but misguided view that this year can be special, we have no chance of winning the championship is critical to future seasons. If he sucks, so be it, but he's the best offensive threat we've drafted since DRose (as disappointing as that is to some) and he needs to play.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    I really wasn't going to get involved in this one, but while I don't necessarily disagree with your overall premise, you are being somewhat disingenuous on the Hinrich contract issue. He signed a guaranteed deal for 2 years @$4million each, Nate got 2 years @$2million each, those deals were just staggered by a year, so Hinrich is in the last year of his deal while Nate has one left.

    We really don't know what Augustin will get this offseason, I' hoping that the Bulls can retain him for the bi-annual exception amount, 2 years @2 million per(Nate money). If that were the case you could have both Augustin and Nate for the same price as Hinrich, a deal which most Bulls fans would take in a heartbeat.

    I also get why the Bulls wanted Hinrich as Rose's backup(assuming Rose would be healthy). But if I had to pick one of the 3, at this point there is no doubt it would be Augustin, whom we totally lucked into(there's that word again). But Nate is a very unique player, and every good/great team can use a guy like him, especially the Bulls who have no irrational overconfidence guys, especially on offense.

    If you want to be honest about it, Nate single handedly got us to the second round, and won game one against Miami, which is more than we can say about any other Bulls player over the past 3 seasons. So ignoring that to point out his 28% shooting the rest of the series also ignores that he was never meant to be the starting point guard and focal point of the offense, which is what he became with Rose, Hinrich and Deng missing.

    Looking back on it, I think that I'd rather have Nate than Korver, since Nate is way more of a scorer than just a shooter. It would have been really interesting to see Nate play with a healthy Rose. Would it have worked, maybe not, but it could have been fun to find out. Finally, I certainly would have rather had another 2 years of Nate, than 2 years of Mope a Dope Teague, or make that one year of teague, and one year of Toko Ono.

    Heck going forward, it wouldn't suck to have Rose, Augustin and Nate, that is still only $4 million per backing up Rose, i.e. Hinrich money. Those 2 guys are certainly more fun to watch than Hangdog every was or ever will be. God knows we sure could use some more fun around here the way things have gone for the past 2 seasons.

  • I think most would agree that it would be great if the Bulls re-signed DJ after the season. My question is, though, how much will it cost? With the season he is having, there will be many teams looking to grab him. How much of the FA money will they need to use to keep him?

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    Again, here's hoping that the bi-annual exception, i.e. Nate money gets it done.

    Did any of you guys see the Sam Smith piece on DJ last week, seems like a really decent guy from a good family, just the kind of player that the Bulls like to keep around.

  • The Teague trade is probably part of another Bull's trade--I see no other reason it could not have been completed the past 3 days or so. I'm thinking the next part to be a trade with Hinrich, Boozer, & the rights to Mirotic plus a wad of draft picks for Carmelo. Giving Mirotic to NY general manager would help him save face for taking Boozer.

  • In reply to penwit1:

    That trade with NY would be OK if (IF):
    1) Carmelo would sign an extension for about $18 million per year; and
    2) The Bulls only include Boozer, Taj, Hinrich, and a couple of 1st round picks. They could take back Shumpert to balance salaries.

    The Bulls need to keep Mirotic -- I just do not see the FO dumping Mirotic unless it would be for LeBron, Durant, or the like, which of course will not happen.

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    Can we please trade Jimmy Butler for a bag of popcorn?

  • In reply to Joshua Adams:

    That would make you GM of the year! The Bulls can get a 1st round pick for Butler any time they wish. Butler needs to get healthy and play at SF -- then he will be fine.

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