Help us Kevin Love, you're our only hope

Help us Kevin Love, you're our only hope

At the beginning of the seasons, Bulls fans were once again looking for a star player who might want out and become a trade target later on in the season. LaMarcus Aldridge and Kevin Love were the two options that seemed most likely. Then a funny thing happened, the trailblazers became one of the best teams in the west.

Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love seem like the only two disgruntled stars out there, and there's little point in trading for Carmelo Anthony right before he becomes a free agent. Kevin Love however? There's a possibility there. Kevin Love is pissed at his teammates lack of intensity, the Timberwolves losing ways and never making the playoffs.

The Timberwolves will be forced to trade Love sooner rather than later if they want to maximize their value on the return. While a move at the trade deadline when they have a chance to make the playoffs and possibly turn things around is a stretch, a move this summer if they fall apart seems quite plausible.

Love would have just one more year left before he can opt out, and teams are more likely to give up value for a guy with a season left on his contract rather than a guy who may immediately bolt in free agency afterwards.

The Bulls will conveniently have Carlos Boozer's expiring deal to match Kevin Love's salary quite closely. The Bulls have plenty of sweeteners to make a trade. They have their own draft picks, 2 additional first rounders (Kings, Hornets), or some decent role players (Gibson, Butler). Some combination of those assets seems plausible to get a deal done if Minnesota decides it's time to rebuild.

In any situation like this, Kevin Love will have some power to help direct his next location. If he sends a negative vibe to the team trading for him, saying it's unlikely he'll resign in a year and a half then he may be able to veto a trade. Chicago seems like the exact type of destination that might interest him.

It gets him into the weaker Eastern conference, a team of hard working individuals, and a genuine shot to win the title. IF the trade could be completed with just picks, the Bulls would be left with something like:

PG: Rose, Augustin
SG: Butler, Snell
SF: Dunleavy,
PF: Love, Gibson, Mirotic
C: Noah

They might possibly ask Mirotic to wait another year (which I believe would end his massive buyout penalty) and instead use that money to fill in one more wing spot for the team. They'd also have the option of bringing back Kirk Hinrich to help fill in at PG/SG as a reserve guy who could swing between those positions.

The team would finally have the inside out star power that they'd hoped Carlos Boozer would provide but didn't. On top of that, Kevin Love could stretch defenses out to the three point line with his shooting allowing a far more dangerous offensive assault and plenty more room for Derrick Rose to drive.

Of course, Mirotic might have to go in the deal, and quite honestly, he might develop into the type of player who gives you a Kevin Love impact all by himself. That said, the Bulls need a shot creator and natural scorer. It's tough to evaluate how European players translate into that role in the NBA simply because the athletic bar to create in the NBA is so much higher and the European game plays so differently.

Mirotic is a tremendous player in Europe, a case could be made that he's the best player in Europe. He's shooting 60% from the three point line in Euroleague this season (though only 32% in the ACB league). His combined percentages from the two leagues still come out to around 58% from the field and 50% from the three point line.

His shot volume and scoring totals are fairly low though, representing the style of European basketball. He averages just over 14 points per game. It'd be a shame to give him up, but if you're serious about running with Derrick Rose, getting Kevin Love is a guy worth taking the chance on. He's also the player who might have enough upside to get Minnesota to do the deal.

Kevin Love is one of those guys the Bulls obviously need. He's a guy who looks likely to demand out soon. Our team looks like a place that'd be good for him to land, and we have the assets to make a reasonable offer for him in trade. It doesn't mean Minnesota will decide to move Love. Their best interest might be to try and put it together one more year and convince him to stay.

It doesn't mean some other team won't trump the Bulls offer, who knows what else is out there? However, a Kevin Love trade looks like one of the things where everyone's interests could be satisfied with a trade. If so, the prime time to make a move would be on draft day this year.

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  • Do you think a deal of gibson, boozer's expiring a pick this year and next + snell would get a deal done?

    MN gets 4 assets and an expiring deal. They also get some rim protection in gibson to play next to Pekovic. The bulls could potentially also take back a 4-5 million dollar wing with a year or two left as well.

  • In reply to AlanJ:

    Salaries don't really match that way. If you build the deal around Gibson then Boozer isn't going to be a part of it.

  • The thing is Love statistically is top 3 in the league... I don't Minny give him up without getting something really worthwhile in return.

    I wonder if we can even keep Noah in a potential deal for him. Which sucks, because I think the only thing missing with Love on the team is a defender who can switch and help quickly. I.E Noah or Gibson.

    Also Pekovic has quite a lot of trade value right now. It's hard to imagine Minny not looking to make a deal to find some defensive help for that team. It's just hard to picture a team giving up the 3rd best player in the league without exploring all avenues to try and keep him...

    That said though yeah, I'd be all over Love coming to chicago. The pick and roll with Rose would be just amazing and between some mix of Gibson and Noah, I think we'd be able to cover up his defensive holes to finally get Love some serious success beyond the stat line.

  • In reply to GuniGuGu:

    I don't think anyone views Love as a top three player. A top three player doesn't have a team that can't make the playoffs for the past several years despite having what appears to be other talented guys around him.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    That seems harsh to me.

    Does Love really have that much talent around him? The way the Wolves fall apart when Love is off the floor (his on/off is a ridiculous +17.6 this year) suggests he doesn't. Kevin Martin and Pekovic are both in contention for the worst defenders in the league at their position, and Rubio can't throw the ball in the ocean. The rest of the team are complete scrubs.

    I look at the Wolves minus Love and I don't see anyone other than LeBron who lifts them and makes them a clear playoff team.

    Really that's the NBA pecking order as I see it - LeBron a clear #1, the only guy who can truly carry a team by himself, and the 2-10 of guys like Durant, George, Davis, Love, Howard, etc are all much closer to each other than they are LeBron.

  • I believe the Bulls have the assets to get Kevin Love. However, here’s the danger: The Lakers have their hearts set on Kevin Love, and he has major ties to the Los Angeles area, besides just playing his college ball at UCLA. Unless the Bulls have Love’s long-term commitment, it would be awfully risky for them to trade for him.

  • In reply to RichG:

    I agree, it's risky, but it's not amazingly risky. The Bulls would be a good environment, a much easier conference, and have the ability to offer considerably more cash.

    That said, I agree there's a pretty good chance Kevin Love wants to end up as a Laker.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yea, tough call, especially this time of year Minneapolis, Chicago, or LA. I'm in San Diego, and today its going to be near 80, which is actually warmer than I like. Never mind being a Laker vs being a Bull.

  • You what sounds intriguing? Having Mirotic and Love together. Maybe Mirotic plays a 6th man role, but when Noah sits, they can have shooting at the 4 and 5. Talk about floor spacing!

    I would go all-in on Love if you only really lose Gibson and picks. Something like:

    2 of the following 3 picks:
    Charlotte pick
    Sactown pick
    Bulls 2014 1st round
    (You can't turn into NY or Brooklyn and give away all your picks... need to restock talent as you go and we would still need a SG.)

    Gibson (can't keep anyway financially)
    Boozer

    Hell, even throw in a 2016 or 2018 Bulls pick that is, like Sac's, lotto protected. Throw in some seconds.

    But, you keep Mirotic at all costs. You build around Rose, Mirotic, Love, Noah, Butler. I mentioned that trading Noah is an option, but with Mirotic and Love, Noah fits well b/c he can own the paint more.

  • they have to catch a big fish if they want to quiet the critcism. There's a strong disconnect between Forman/FO and the coaching staff plus players, when you have core players like Noah and Rose indirectly complaining about roster moves over the last several years, it just doesn't look good. The old the Bulls are cheap, can't make the big trade or land a top free agent start to creep up again and everything they do seems to be a financial move of some sort. Paxson/Forman need to land a top star talent in is prime like Love, Aldridge, or Anthony. The clock is ticking away until the next bargaining agreement brings in a hardcap.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    Yes, I agree.

    Paxson's quotes of "we know we've said we have financial flexibility before, and now we need to prove we can do something with it" ring true.

  • I do not see trading Mirotic -- he has the potential to be elite at a cost of about $5 million per year for 4 years! Yeah, trade him straight up for Love, but that's not going to happen.

    Plus, the Bulls would give up a lot of picks, three in the #15 range this year and next. They might be able to package two of those plus a player like Taj or Snell to move up in the draft. Or maybe they have/will identify some potential starters with the picks. This trade would be a real question in my mind.

    Then, too, what if Rose never plays well again? What if he get hurt again? With Mirotic and Anthony and a potent SG, the Bulls are back in the fight. Of course, they could theoretically, if Boozer, Butler and Taj go for Love, wind up with both Love and Anthony. Anthony would then have to come on an S&T. It is kind of fun to think about the possibilities.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Be careful not to over-value the draft. If Love were in the draft, he'd be the first pick in any of the next 5 years.

    Wouldn't you trade multiple picks to draft Love if he were in the draft?

    I'd package the Charlotte pick (could be pick #16 this year or top 5 in 3 years... who knows?) and the Sactown pick (may not even be a first b/c top 10 protected!) + Gibson (can't keep everyone) + Boozer for Love in a heartbeat.

    Would even consider Noah instead of Gibson.

    I think the Bulls should try to keep their own pick in the 2014 draft. Thus, throwing in the two aforementioned picks plus a couple future lotto protected picks makes sense. (Yes, 4 picks + Gibson/Noah, basically)

  • In reply to Granby:

    You asked, "Wouldn't you trade multiple picks to draft Love if he were in the draft?"

    Yes, I would, but getting him for 4 years at about $3 million per year is a whole different ball game than getting him for 4 years at, say, $20 million per year. If an FO knows what it is doing, it can do quite a bit with an extra $17 million X 4.

    Still, I would make the trade you suggested for Love -- Boozer, Gibson, and 4 picks, because the Bulls keep Mirotic. If Mirotic turns out to be great, and he and Love can only play the PF, then maybe the Bulls could trade him for the strong SG they need. But there is no way Minny makes that deal, certainly not this year.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Anthony hasn't shown he can really be in the fight at all, let alone as the best player. I'd be careful about putting him in that conversation.

    Same is true of Kevin Love.

    Derrick Rose proved he can be in the fight without another star, but those other two? Not so much.

  • BTW, Love is, of course, not the Bulls' only hope! There really are a lot of scenarios that return the Bulls to contender status. But, if they do not trade their picks, they will need a really strong draft in both 2014 and 2015.

    Since their own pick will not be top ten, I would like to see them move up in the 2014 draft. I wonder what it would take to get a top five pick? That would likely only happen if they ID a player in the top ten that they feel will be really good.

  • Based on the Bulls trade history, the Wolves will only part with Love for for Noah, Mirotic, Gibson, Butler and two firsts. Then they'll trade Love to the Lakers for Pau Gasol and Nick Young.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    You are really cynical, Roman! 15 years of futility has made you cynical. The worst of it is, we all understand!

    BTW, I would not make that trade for Love.

    I would, however, trade Rose and Gibson for Love -- might throw in a pick, too. Why? Because the Bulls are always picking up halfway decent FA guards, like Watson, Lucas, Nate, Belli, Dunleavy, Augustine. Can you imagine a front court of Mirotic, Noah, Love, and Butler off the bench? Tough lineup and it would score a ton. Draft a decent SG and play in the Finals!

  • In reply to rustyw:

    What part of both guys(Mirotic and Love) are power forwards, and power forwards can't play small forward don't you guys get. If they could they be tweeners and have no position what so ever. and neither Love or Mirotic is a center either so a 3 man big rotation with Noah isn't happening either.

    I just don't see Love and Mirotic on the same team as being a good allocation of resources.

    Now, if there is some evidence out there that Mirotic is an NBA 3 then that becomes an entirely different discussion, but I haven't seen or heard anything of that sort.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I think you could play Love at center for stretches without much of an issue.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Ha! I'm actually one of the less cynical people here, and as a result often find myself defending the FO just for being not terrible, and just recently commented that things can change a lot over a short period of time.

    But when it comes to swinging the big deal, the Bulls FO has earned my complete and total cynicism.

    @Bigway -- If you're the T-Wolves, you don't make this deal without getting Mirotic to play with Rubio.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    I totally agree on the wolves, so for both teams the essence of the deal is do you want Love or do you want Mirotic plus picks and more cap space.

  • Love makes us more competitive but he does not make us an elite team ala the Thunder or Heat. Just as Bosh wouldn't have put a wade led Heat team over the top. Just like Bosh who thrived statistically on a crappy Raptors team although Bosh actually took his team to the playoffs...

    We need to focus on filling the secondary shot creator role IMO. Because that is who wins you close games. Does Bosh win the Heat championships or is it Wade and James taking over the end of games? Because Bosh is a good comparison to the type of hit statistically Love would take coming to a good team with an elite rebounder playing next to him in Noah and a number one offensive option in Rose. If I am mortgaging the teams future to bring one playor aboard I am trading up for a Jabari Parker or similar shot creator in the draft. Because you don't need just any two stars you need two stars that can take over games offensively when your team is struggling. When it comes to offense that seems to happen a lot with this squad.

    Just will be glad to finally be done with the constant Kevin Love and Pau Gasol trade rumors when they would do little to impact our chances at a championship not to mention how old Pau is at this point and yet I still hear fans say we should target him...

  • In reply to Chad:

    I think having a Rose/Love pick and role with Morotic to space the floor on the weakside is about as good as it gets offensively to close out games.

    Love averages 26 points and 13+ rebounds per game! He's shooting over 38% from 3 this season and he shots 42% from 3 a few seasons ago.

    Bulls cannot get Jabari or Wiggins or Randle. Recent reports are that Jabari is most NBA ready, but lower ceiling due to lower athletic ability. Wiggins is passive. Randle is inconsistent and not dominating the SEC. Even these 3 are not sure things. Maybe one of them will be better than Love, but that will be in another 5 years and Rose will be 31. And, you gotta pick the right one.

    Rose can take his man off the dribble if that's what you are looking to do. If you surround Rose with shooters like Love and Mirotic, etc.. Rose can be the closer. Even this year prior to the injury, he looked just as athletic, just off. It doesn't have to be a superstar wing. Could go with a Snell-Butler-Rodney Hood (Duke) combo. And, Dunleavy next year, too. With Rose, Mirotic, Noah and Love, that would be a damn good team and I think they could beat just about any team.

    (This assumes you can get him for Boozer, Gibson and multiple picks, but not our 2014 pick, which is doubtful, but possible if this is where Love wants to be because that will drive the decision.)

  • In reply to Granby:

    Reason you need a secondary ball handler/shot creator is if you have to have the ball in one guys hands it makes the defenses job that much easier. A great defensive team isn't going to let you pick and roll them to death. They will just bring an extra guy or get physical with Love because he doesn't handle it well or trap Rose at half court force the ball out of his hands early. It would still be the shut down Rose you shut down the Bulls because nobody else will be able to create for themselves and others.

    Mirotic's ceiling could easily be Ryan Anderson. Whom is good but far from a star player. He doesn't have the athletisicm to be on the court playing the SF spot with Love at the 4 very often if ever. If you play them at the 4 and 5 spot your interior D is going to suck.

    Love is a good player but he is just another overrated stat king on a crap team. Chris Bosh has a very similar game with more athletisicm but if you take away Wade or James their chances suffer far more than if you take away Bosh. Would they even miss Bosh that much? Just like Loul Deng did we really ever miss Loul when he was out? Not really.

    My point is Love won't have the impact on our championship odds that most of you assume he would. Would he help us? Yes. Would he make us a contender? No.

  • In reply to Chad:

    I like your analysis in both of your comments. And I agree, even if the Bulls were to land Love, they would still need the SG, which they have needed since MJ left.

    However, I do not think Bosh compares favorably with Love! Bosh has a few great games, Love has a lot of them. If Rose becomes 90% of what he was, Love makes the Bulls contenders, provided they do not give up too much for him.

    Right now, Carmelo looks to be a more reasonable acquisition. Don't forget, he is also a fairly strong rebounder. A front court of Carmelo, Noah, and Butler, with Mirotic off the bench, is deadly, with strong D besides. I think the Bulls may well try for an S&T for Carmelo after the draft.

  • In reply to Chad:

    You make a lot of sense. So good to hear one voice of wisdom among a crowd that seems to want to dismantle the Bulls completely. I guess they are doing this in fun--but the things they say are sometimes completely illogical.

    I think Kevin Love would be a nice acquisition, but I believe the lights of LA may mean a very big paycheck awaiting him which puts him out of Chicago's acceptable salary range. I do believe that New York's FO needs to save face and give their fans hope and will do almost anything now including trading Carmelo. If Chicago sent a draft pick to Phili for Turner and sent him to New York with a sign and trade deal along with Carlos Boozer, Teague, and the rights to Mirotic--New York would go for the deal (or something similar). Anthony (a proven player not from Europe) could play power forward. Chicago could then sign Bynum (at the NBA minimum who has something to prove in if he wants to stay in the league )-- just to play in the playoffs--and we would be very competitive with just an 8 player rotation. Even a disgruntled player like him could be very useful if he knew he was there on the bench for the playoffs--he at that point would be useful if Noah was unable to play. With the same basic team we already have,
    Chicago would finally be loading its guns with ammunition to beat Miami this year and not another 15.

  • In reply to penwit1:

    Assuming both teams wanted him equally, is there any difference between what the Bulls and Lakers could potentially pay Love, or any other player for that matter? I thought there was a max contract structure.

  • In reply to Roman F:

    Yes, and state taxes in Illinois are cheaper than those in Cali.

  • In reply to Chad:

    Ryan Anderson is a very nice player at this point, but I certainly hope that he is not the ceiling on Mirotic, in fact I'm kind of hoping that he is the basement. I still think that Dirk is not out of the question, especially if you look at where Dirk came from and how rocky of a start he had in the NBA. If I am not mistaken he was traded on draft day for some fat short ground bound guy from Michigan that didn't last his first contract in the league. Can't remember the guys name, but he was sort of like the Michigan version of Michael Sweetney.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Tractor Traylor, RIP. But that's a trade that wouldn't happen today, was back in the day when people didn't believe Euros could make it in the NBA.

    Dirk didn't really have that rocky a start - his first season was the lockout year, lots of players had crap offensive years, no surprise a rookie didn't do great. In his second season (when he was younger than Mirotic is now) he put up 17.5 a game on 46/38/83 shooting.

    That's not really far away from Ryan Anderson's per 36 career numbers either ... I'd say Anderson isn't the floor or the ceiling, but a reasonable over/under scenario for Mirotic.

  • In reply to Chad:

    I doubt that anybody on this site or elsewhere speaks of Gasol and Love in the same breath. Gasol was looked at as a boozer salary/attitude/professionalism dump. Love is cleary another story, whether you agree with that story or not is another issue.

  • Mirotic and Love may not make sense as they have the same skills and play the same position. Pick one and go with it. I would pick Love and give Mirotic plus Teague as a trade bait with Boozer. If possible, I would also try to get Lance Stephenson from Indiana as he is a UFA next year. This would be a dream team:

    1. Rose / DJ/ Kirk (vet min)
    2. Lance S./ Snail
    3. Butler/ Dunlevey
    4. Love/ Taj/ Murphy
    5. Noah/ Draft

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    You have no money to go after Stephenson if you add Love to the payroll.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    There's no way to get Love and Stephenson. You probably can't get Stephenson either way since he'll be restricted and Indiana will presumably match reasonable offers.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Rumor has it that Indy might not be able to/want to match a big offer that puts them into tax territory, say $10 million per vs $8 million per.

  • I don't think the Wolves even talk unless Mirotic is in the deal. I would guess it would have to be a deal of Boozer, Mirotic, Bobcat pick, and the King's pick just to get the conversation started. Some have made an interesting argument about how good Love really is. I've wondered about that some times. There seem to be a lot of players from bad teams that aren't as good once they leave. Personally, I think Love is as good as advertised. I just wonder, if he were on the Bulls, if his defense is any better than Boozer?
    I actually like the current path that the team is on right now. If Rose is healthy, Boozer is gone, and Noah doesn't demand a trade to Cleveland or something, I think they are setting up nicely for next season. The Sacramento pick that everyone dismisses could come into play. They are winning a good chunk of games since they traded for Gay and are only a game or two behind the Lakers (who are losing fast) and not far from shooting down the draft board. With two or three first round picks, the Bulls could load up the bench or make trades. There are some interesting wing players in this draft that could provide scoring that the team has needed. DJ (if they can keep him) may prove to be a great fit behind Rose and I'd even try to keep Hinrich as a third guard off the bench. I love the idea of Snell and Dunlevey as reserves, and I think Snell could become the kind of three point threat that Mike Miller or Battier have been for Miami. With Taj, hopefully Mirotic, Noah, and maybe a center from the draft the big men should be loaded. No matter what happens, I think this off-season will be a very entertaining one. Almost makes me want the season to hurry up and end so I can get to the off-season!

  • Even if Minny is amenable to making a trade, which I doubt that they would do to their fan base, the only way the Bulls get in on the action is starting the deal with Mirotic, and then you would have to add several firsts to entice/induce them, most likely both the Charlotte and Sacto picks. If your the Bulls you can't include Noah in the deal, you need exactly the kind of center that he is to pair with Love.

    From the Bulls standpoint, does it make any sense to have both Love and Mirotic since they are both power forwards, and neither is going to want to come off the bench as a 6th man type. That role could prevent Mirotic from wanting to come over.

    Is that enough for Minny, depends on how much more anyone else would offer. The Bulls go forward with Rose, blank at 2 guard, Butler, Love and Noah, with Gibson, Augustin, Dunleavy, Snell and their 2014 1st round pick. Certainly the best they've ever been, depending on Rose, but how much better than with Mirotic and 2 more firsts coming.

    So basically your swapping Love for Mirotic in the lineup and giving up at least 2 first round picks in the teens to do so, plus your spending 3-4 times the money on that position upfront and your taking the risk of losing it all in a year.

    That deal would be hard, maybe impossible to pass up, but would it be the best move for the long term future.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Based on your outline of the similar skills, why trade for Love and give up a ton of assets and pay him a high salary? Get Mirotic over first at $5 to 7 million per year and see what he is. Even if he is a bit less than Love, which certainly is to be expected for the next 2 years or so, his cost/benefit ratio could be vastly more favorable for the Bulls.

    If Mirotic becomes as good as his stats and awards suggest, and if Rose returns at 90%, all the Bulls will need is one more elite and they could beat Miami.

    They don't have to trade, all they have to do is find the elite in the draft. Right now it looks like they could have 2 1st round picks in 2014 and again in 2015. How high a 1st rounder could the Bulls get for Dunleavy? I'm sure they are trying to find out!

  • Interesting article on the 2014 draft class from Mark Heisler, who used to be one of my favorite writers before he disappeared from the LA times.

    Basically, the class in general and Wiggins in particular might not be all that they are cracked up to be, and Embiid is no worse than the second pick, and as I suspect, being a 7 footer, may end up #1 overall. Still just hoping that the Bulls could tank their way into Dario Saric, but that would take the 6th or 7th pick, so unless Noah goes down that isn't happening.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markheisler/2014/01/12/nba-wakes-to-find-andrew-wiggins-and-entire-class-of-14-arent-that-good/

  • In reply to BigWay:

    If you've got Mirotic coming over is Saric really who you want to be drafting? They seem pretty similar types of players. Not sure either can really guard NBA small forwards or play center, so how do you get them on the court together?

  • In reply to Shakes:

    I believe that Saric is a small forward type, not a power forward and certainly not a candidate to play center. He is a much better ball handler and overall floor game than Mirotic, but no where near the shooter. Don't really have any idea about his ability to guard the small forward position. Of course, we have no idea if Mirotic can guard the power forward position in the NBA either. I'm just looking for more guys with offensive skills that better fit the new motion and 3 point shooting offenses that are starting to change the way the NBA plays.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I agree they're the type of players the game seems to be moving towards, I just see them as both being PFs in that type of game. I admit I'm only going off some youtube videos and what's been written about him, but he looks too slow to guard SFs, especially as the traditional NBA SFs start spending more time at PF and teams play 3 wing lineups.

    The Heat's top 5 man unit this year is Chalmers-Wade-Battier-James-Bosh. I just don't see how the Bulls match that up with a Rose-Butler-Saric-Mirotic-Noah lineup. I still think best case draft scenario is Exum and hope his shooting develops. Rose-Exum-Butler-Mirotic-Noah works much better defensively.

    Probably moot since it doesn't seem like the Bulls will tank down for either of those players though.

  • I think Love wanting to go to LA is a legitimate concern, you'd be giving up enough that you'd need to be sure he wants to stay in Chicago before doing any deal.

    A team built around a healthy Rose, Love, Noah would be very good if you can get some shooting with passable defense at the wing spots. But assuming those three are the core, you have to leave yourself with enough after the trade to have or be able to obtain the pieces to put around them. So I'm all for Love at the right price - but it has to be the right price, you can't just play the "we get the stars and everything will sort itself out later" game.

    As far as Mirotic goes, I think betting against him averaging 25/13 per 36 on 59 TS% is pretty safe. It makes sense if you're getting Love for him to be part of the deal - you don't want him and Love playing together, you want them playing next to a defensive center, so there's not minutes for them.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Love won't average 25/13 on our team either. Maybe if Rose and Noah are both out he does but not with everyone healthy.

    Noah will eat into his rebounds and Rose is the first option not to mention the cast is on the whole more competitive so his attempts will be down. My bet would be if you place Love on the Bulls as they are he would be 19-21ppg and 11-12 rbs.

  • In reply to Chad:

    After a year of adjusting, Mirotic could well hit those averages! Which means, wait on Love. Keep the picks and draft well! If Rose is back, then an elite SG could get them to the Finals.

    The Bulls already have great D and a good bench. One more top player plus some pieces. The pieces should not be too difficult with 4 1st round picks in the next 2 years. That is assuming that both the Charlotte and Kings picks hit this year or next.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Realistically, both the Charlotte and Sacto picks roll over to the next couple of years, neither team will be better than their protections this season. On top of that, it looks like the Bulls will give us the worst of all worlds, making the bottom half of the playoffs, thus missing out on a top 10 pick and ending up with something in the high teens. Nothing wrong with having 2 firsts in each of the next 2-3 years. Extra firsts certainly have more value in the new CBA. In fact even under the old system, if I had been an owner/GM, I would have looked to use my $3 million annually to buy an extra first every season. I would certainly to that now, even if it has become more difficult.

  • In reply to Chad:

    If we get Love then Rose is the second option. Love is a better scorer than Rose is.

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    Another Sci Fi trade movie ... Who will ever take Boozer with this idiotic contract, player who dont even try to play defense, who dont play in play off ? With only 17M contract, do not forget ? And another surprise for our managers, Mirotic dont have skills for defense, he is worst in defense from Boozer. I live in Europe and watch him a lot. So just forget, please, about Boozer trade, and Mirotic dont have even half value like player if anyone here remember, Toni Kukoc .

  • In reply to Ognjen Stevanovic:

    Thanks for your input, Ognjen. It was interesting.

    I wonder, how can Miirotic shoot like he does and not have potential for D, especially at 6'11"? When he's around Noah, Taj, and Thibs, he might develop his D -- even more so when someone explains that his next NBA contract might average an extra $5 million per year if he learns D!

  • In reply to Ognjen Stevanovic:

    Thanks for the close up on Mirotic, but as someone who has had a painfully close-up of boozer for nearly 4 years now, it is not possible to be a worse defender than boozer and still be breathing.

    As for Mirotic/Kukoc, I've mentioned him as a comparsion for Mirotic a few times, hoping that was the bottom line for Mirotic. My impression is that Mirotic is a much better shooter, and has much less of a floor game. Kukoc didn't provide much if any D or physical toughness, so how much worse can Mirotic be in those areas.

    Look, the number one thing we need is a legitimate 3 point shooter, someone who can consistently hit over 40%, he at least seems to be that guy.

  • Just to echo some of your points:

    Just to be clear, there is no way I'm trading Mirotic for Love. They are similar players - probably both stretch 4's, although Love is a much better rebounder and Mirotic probably a better shooter. Mirotic will probably not be as good as Love, but his salary is much less.

    I don't think you go after Love, but if you are on the short list, you consider it. Who says Mirotic won't be happy in a 6th man role if he's playing 35 a night? Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

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    Well, we need to clear some things here . Toni Kukoc take 3 European Championship, with Jugoplastika, 3 time best European player with Beneton . Mirotic is far far away for anything like this now.

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    In reply to Ognjen Stevanovic:

    NBA Draft Kukoc was selected by the Chicago Bulls in 1990 , but continued to play in Europe until 1993 , when the Bulls won their third consecutive title , and after Michael Jordan retired the first time . Kukoc was the first season entering the game as a substitute Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant . He had a solid season in start , with double-digit average points scored .
    After the departure of Grant at the end of the season, Kukoc has become a standard member of the starting lineup . And the league 's second leading scorer , rebounder and second second assistant team behind Pippen . In the season 1995/96 he returned to Jordan and the Bulls lead and center Dennis Rodman . In such a situation, coach Phil Jackson has moved Kukoc on the bench . Kukoc was the third scorer ( behind Jordan and Pippen ) and due to its merit was named the sixth- best player of the season . Chicago is the season won their fourth in a row and set a record in win-loss records of 72-10 .
    Year in 1997. and in 1998. Kukoc has entered the bench as a sixth player , while the Bulls won their fifth and sixth title. Again, Kukoc was the third scorer of the team.
    After lok -out and departures Jackson , Jordan and Pippen in 1999, the team was to reorganize . Kukoc of the season was the top scorer , rebounder and assistant Bulls in due lok -out, shortened the season 1998 / 99th . Thats are facts.

  • In reply to Ognjen Stevanovic:

    And all those facts are interesting facts.

    But here is another interesting fact -- Mirotic is one of the top three shooters ever to come out of Europe! Ever! That is not this year, that is in the history of basketball in Europe! He has super high percentages from the field, from beyond the arc, and FTs. Plus he is a kid, he can get better.

    No one knows what will happen, but the ceiling for Mirotic is higher that Kukoc. He can learn D, he is 6'11", he can rebound. Maybe he will just be very good, but maybe he will become a top ten player. Only time will tell.

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