Bulls Beat #310 - D.J. and Melo

Bulls Beat #310 - D.J. and Melo

I discuss the possibilities surrounding Carmelo Anthony and D.J. Augustin in this summer and how the Bulls can build a championship caliber team.

Bulls Beat #310 - DJ and Melo

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  • @doug...If the bulls can find a third team to pull off Carmelo trade that would help them to keep their core also . You talked about the possibility of bulls trading boozer for Eric Gordon. Bulls could flip Eric Gordon to the Knicks...deal may look much better to Knicks along with some picks.

    Just hoping the bulls actually pull off a major trade. They traded luol deng and keep acquiring assets. they seem very low key when it comes down to trade rumors.

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    Actually, I think the Knicks might prefer boozer to Gordon, simply because boozers piece of shit contract ends in the summer of 2014, whereas Gordons runs another 2 years after that. The Knicks need to get in position to reload with cap space as soon as possible and 2015 looks like their shot.

  • The whole Nate Robinson Dj Agustin thing makes me think what would happen if the Bulls actually picked up a scorer of the mid-level variety (not a minimum guy) early in free agency and let him lose in the system... that's an allstar for sure. But the bulls are fine pickin up these minimum guys as a last resort when they realize the team can't score. This situation also makes me think that Rose is not really a super version of these guys and thus is probably not the best "fit" for the Bulls. He is still (when healthy) a pedestrian shooter with a slow release that needs a team that spaces the floor and opens up driving lanes. Agustin and Nate Robinson are shooters first and foremost I think and wrk extremely well in this offense. Imagine if the Bulls could have Stephen Curry or at least Damian Lillard on the team instead. They'd go nuts.

  • Here's one idea, just a thought. What does everyone think about possibly trading Derrick Rose for Carmelo Anthony?

  • In reply to Edward:

    Your basically suggesting that Augustin can replace Rose with Melo on the team as the go to scorer.

    Obviously, if you compare the play of Rose and Augustin this season as Bulls, Augustin has been the better player(small sample size). If this is the real Augustin, he may just be the better pure point guard, and he definitely looks like a better 3 point shooter. Even though he plays a pure point guard type of game, Augustin doesn't seem to need to dominate the ball as much as Rose, which could be a problem with a guy like Melo.

    You don't want to go crazy after just a couple of good/great games by a guy, but you have to wonder how much of a difference there would be between this Bulls team plus Melo with DJ vs Rose as the starting point guard.

    Clearly the only reason you would even consider this trade is because of Rose's injuries. I don't think that there is any chance the Bulls would even consider it, but I wonder if the Knicks would do it given the injury uncertainties. Given their love/need of star power, they'd sure have to consider it.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I might make the offer to NY, but I doubt they would bite. This trade would improve the Bulls, and they still might be able to get another elite player down the road.

    The other problem is, if the Bulls make such an offer, we can be sure that Rose will hear about it and that could cause a major issue with him of loyalty. Personally, I would not consider it disloyal, unless Rose gave the Bulls a big discount financially! It is merely a business decision.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Carmelo has more value than Rose at this point. Who wants an injury prone guy with an albatross contract? If we can trade Boozer and drafts for Carmelo and retain D.J. and Nikola this team is set for multiple championships.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    The Knicks may want Rose. If Melo chooses to leave Knicks, they are in a difficult position.

  • In reply to BullsDynasty:

    You wrote, "If we can trade Boozer and drafts for Carmelo and retain D.J. and Nikola this team is set for multiple championships." That is likely true, provided Rose returns to 90% of his old self, but that is a big question for now!

    The way the Bulls are playing right now, if they lose Boozer and Hinrich; then add Carmelo and Mirotic; plus keep DJ, Noah, Butler, Dunleavy and Taj, that team could very well take down Indy, Miami, or anyone.

    But to do that, I believe Carmelo would have to sign for $18 million or so, and the Bulls would have to move Taj and his salary. They likely could move up nicely in the draft for Taj and their own 1st round pick. But I doubt Carmelo would take $18 mil unless his agent figures he would gain tens of millions in endorsements if the Bulls win a couple of championships!

  • Like you I am not a huge Melo fan, both basketball and personality wise. However, somebody wrote a piece about Melo to the Bulls this week, and again pointed out how he was considered the MVP of a couple of those dream teams in the mid 2000's which always makes me wonder if he is better suited to playing with another star or stars than being a one man team.

    In any event if you can get him for nothing more than a bunch of first round picks(bozohole and hinrich for salary cap ballast), you almost have to do it. If we get to keep Mirotic and Gibson, then I'd give up both the Sacto and Charlotte picks and likely even a couple of our own firsts. You would almost certainly have to give the Knicks our first this season, as they are losing their own to Denver in the remnants of the Anthony trade. Would they do it for just 3 firsts, what about 4.

    As for Augustin, I certainly hope that we make a better effort to keep him than we did any of the other guys from years past, i.e. any effort at all. I'd say there is a good chance the Bulls will since he is basically replacing Hinrich, so to me that means he could get Hinrichs salary slot, up to $3-4 million for 2-3 years. I imagine that the Bulls would still prefer a 2 year deal, to have more flexibility heading into the summer of 2016, but a Butler extension will eat into that anyway. I wonder if besides money DJ will be looking for a chance to start, which won't happen here unless Rose's career basically comes to an end. I suppose that they could play some together which might get DJ minutes into the 20's, but that would seem to be the max, is that enough for him.

    If the "worst" outcome of this summer was that we amnesitized the Hole and used cap space to add Mirotic and DJ, plus added our #1 that really wouldn't be so bad after the last few years. Plus, we would then still have some kind of exceptions to fill out the roster with a bigman backup for Noah and maybe another wing.

    Like I said a while back, after we got our first look at DJ, I am probably more optimistic going forward than I have been since the 2010 offseason, tempered only by the significant question of Rose's future health.

  • I hope Bulls don't get sucked into overpaying yet another role player this off season - Jimmy Butler. As we all know, overpaying role players has been a recurring problem for Bulls. If Butler demands too much Bulls should trade him. What does everyone think is the right salary for Jimmy not-so-many Buckets?

    If Bulls have to choose, who is worth more, DJ Augustine or Butler?

  • In reply to Edward:

    Clearly DJ is the more dynamic offensive player and Jimmy is the better defender. I have to believe that all of Jimmy's injuries, particualarly the turf toe have affected his play this season, otherwise the end of last season was a total mirage. At that point, I think that most of us thought that Jimmy was destined for Taj type money, clearly right now he isn't. However, he has all of next season to up the ante. We have to make the call on DJ this year. Right now, they are both no more than MLE players, probably less. I'd take both guys at that kind of money, although DJ as a backup would seem a little pricey.

  • DJ is going the way of Asik, some team will target him as a starter. I'm all for the Bulls to go all out and use assets to get Carmelo but I'm still intrigued by Lance Stephenson, a player that can truly play two roles, backup pg and starting shooting guard.......something the Bulls have never had even though they say they have a nice combo guard in Hinrich........the point of the combo guard is to take pressure off of Rose and to have a scoring shot creator next to him, Hinrich doesn't do that so I have no idea what planet Gar and Paxson reside on. They need to get some scoring for sure as Jimmy Butler is showing he's more thabo sefelosha and hopefully he's paid like one.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    Stephenson scars the crap out of me, and it will likely take almost all of our cap space(post boozer amensty) to sign him, leaving something less than the MLE to sign Mirotic. Meaning that signing stephenson likely means taking the chance on waiting for Mirotic for one more season, adding even more to the risk of going after him.

  • For all the ridiculous suggestions that Augustine can even remotely replace Rose, even a Rose at 75%, give me a break. How many points did Augustine get against a good team- Clippers? Seven. Every other team he's gone off on are not teams a competitive Bulls team should even have to worry about scoring against. I know the Bulls have trouble scoring regardless of the opponent, but please. Any above average team shuts down Augustine. Even the Wizards held him to seven points in their last game. I'm not even going to get into the defensive liability he presents compared to Rose. Augustine would be a good back up, but no way he can replace Rose.

  • In reply to Hoop Dreamz:

    I agree 100%. It takes something special to be a starter. Jimmy is proving that this year. You have to perform against the elite every night and can't just have your great games against scrub teams.

  • In reply to Hoop Dreamz:

    I think this line of thinking goes more along the lines of Augustine+Melo can replace Rose+Deng... not sure if I agree but it's not Augustine replacing Rose really. Rose should be trraded for Stephen Curry, who could average about 35ppg for the bulls or somethin... but I wouldn't make that trade if I was the warriors.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    I would suggest the Knicks current pg trumps Augustine. Do Chandler and Noah cancel each other more or less? I think Anthony would only be intrigued if Rose was part of the Bulls (having at least two scorers that we keep hearing). Other than Thibs, doesn't he basically play on a Rose-less team now?
    My main point, I suppose, is that after two years of not seeing Rose play people are awfully quick to consider him a non-factor. There is that chance, but we will have to wait and see.

  • In reply to Hoop Dreamz:

    The knicks current pg(s) whom you can't even name trump the way the Augustin is playing right now, Really?

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Just saying, he ain't coming here to match up with Augustine. And I can name Felton, who I'd take every day over Augustine.

  • In reply to Hoop Dreamz:

    Also keep in mind Rose gets his numbers going up against constant double-teaming; that's not something Augustin has to deal with every time he touches the ball.

  • In reply to Hoop Dreamz:

    Your right if you believe that we will ever get MVP Rose back. Personally, I think that we have seen the last of that guy. So you left with what is the upside for the rest of Rose's career assuming he even has one. Thats why, at this point the Bulls have to sign guys with the thought that Rose might never be back.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Some may think that's harsh, but I think its simply an honest assessment/reality check. I also don't think we will ever see MVP Rose again.

  • I think it's all a moot point. Carmelo Anthony loves money (Knicks can offer additional year on contract), and James Dolan loves Carmelo Anthony. Why the fascination with a ball stopper who has only been out of the first round twice in ten years?

  • In reply to RichG:

    Why the fascination? Because he is a deadly scorer, plus he usually ups his game in the playoffs, which none of the Bulls players have done for years! No more DTs for Rose with Carmelo on the floor. He rebounds well, and with Thibs, he figures to up his D as well.

    The front court for the team would be Carmelo, Noah, Butler, Mirotic, and maybe Taj (I think he would be traded). Back court would be DJ, Rose, and Dunleavy.

    My question is, if the Bulls amnesty Boozer, dump Kirk, trade Taj and a couple of 1sts to move up in the draft, do they have the space to sign Carmelo for $18 million plus resign DJ and still bring over Mirotic?

  • In reply to rustyw:

    I don't think you can assume that Carmelo would up his defense under Thibodeau. Boozer didn't.

  • Does a bulls team with Melo sound a lot like the 50 win 07-08 Nuggets?

    Rose= Allen Iverson
    Melo=Melo
    Noah= Marcus Camby

  • In reply to Daniel7123:

    Scary, but the thought has crossed my mind that post injury Rose is like later career Iverson, except of course for the me, myself part.

  • In reply to Daniel7123:

    No, because Thibs is a better coach than Karl, and the bench of the Bulls is better. The Bulls had two 60+ wins in a season under Thibs. And the Nuggets did not have Noah/Mirotic.

  • In reply to Daniel7123:

    Plus the East is weak, Bulls win 60 with Melo, Rose, Taj, Butler, Noah, etc...

  • In reply to nolebron:

    You are probably right.

  • One correction, Augustin is not 23. He's 26.

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