Bulls Beat #292 - Camp Battle

Bulls Beat #292 - Camp Battle

I discuss the camp battle for the final roster spot and note this might be the best Bulls roster Derrick Rose has ever had

Bulls Beat #292 - Camp battle

Filed under: Podcast

Tags: bulls, bulls beat, chicago bulls, nba



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  • Here is an interesting analysis on a question about Rudy Gay, who I've always contended that I would rather have then Luol Deng, at least if the dollars are in the same ballpark. If Gay opts out next season, it will be very interesting to see who garners the most interest and money, Gay vs. Deng.

    Steve Kyler
    I think first you have to define… Is Rudy Gay a star?
    Not sure that’s the kind of player that Phoenix is targeting. The thing about Rudy is you know his name and he does show some signs of greatness every so often, but consistently bringing it has been an issue.
    Rudy had a PER of 15.66 last year… BY design a PER of 15 means you are league average as a player. A 15.66 PER ranked him 125th in the NBA. Just under Andre Miller (15.69) and two spots ahead of Matt Barnes (15.57).
    His best PER in his career was 2010-2011 and that was 17.88, that would put him 61st in the NBA last year.
    Not sure that’s what Phoenix is looking for.
    I am not trying to knock Rudy, I like Rudy as a person a lot, simply saying he’s not nearly the player everyone talks about him being.

    Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-rumors-chat-with-steve-kyler-9913#mmZygwGEmRJliPY2.99

    and I quote, "by design a PER of 15 means you are league average as a player"

    I'd just like to highlight that Gay's PER of 15.66 last season ranked 125th in the league right in between Andre Miller and Matt Barnes and 17-18 spots ahead of Luol Deng. Does that make him(Gay) a star, an all star, or a superstar, or damn near the average NBA player. Hmmm?

    Heaven forbid the wrath that might be visited upon anyone who might suggest that Deng himself(15.1 and 14.1 Per the past 2 seasons) is average or dare I say mediocre. Especially since we all know that mediocre is an exact synonym for "Deng Sucks" at least according to some lunatic ranters(a.k.a the Baby BozoHole) on this site who hale from Paducahville.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    another snippet of evidence that Deng ain't all that

    For what it is worth, (this guy ESPN insider) has Deng listed(ranked) as the 21st most(least) valuable free agent next summer(3 years $22.5 million). $7.5 million per, I don't know does that make him average or something less than average

    21 Luol Deng | SF | UFA
    2013-14 team: Chicago Bulls '13-14 salary: $14.2'14-15 AAV: $7.5
    AGE: 28PPG: 16.5RPG: 6.3APG: 3.0

    The prototypical third-option player, Deng has been a warrior for the Bulls' franchise, annually ranking among league leaders in minutes played. The heavy workload, along with the gantlet of tough wing defensive assignments he has had over the years, has taken its toll on Deng, as he has fought off multiple injuries the past two seasons to become a two-time All-Star.

    Besides his defensive tenacity, Deng is a good offensive option best suited coming off screens and operating out of weakside action. He's a model citizen and a positive influence in the locker room with his work ethic and coachability, but the heavy minutes are starting to catch up to him, as his production has been trending downward despite his All-Star recognition. Making matters worse, backup small forward Jimmy Butler made enormous strides last year, inserting himself as a viable alternative at a fraction of the cost (for the time being).

    An offer of $22.5 million over three years would be an appropriate starting point, using Kevin Martin's four-year, $27.8 million deal signed this summer.

  • @Granby, Roman F- like I said less than 48 hours ago....

    "I'd issue a challenge right now that I'll agree to respect the MBB's if they want to agree to the same thing. They started it, but I'm more than willing to be the man and put an end to it right here.

    We'll find out if they are man enough to do the same thing."

    I guess we have 1/3 of the answer....

    PER? What an absolute joke of a statistic that is, especially when people try to use it to compare two players' OVERALL games.

    A few quick facts will tell you how heartily NBA coaches and Front Office types completely laugh at PER*:

    Career numbers:
    Deng: 15.4 PER, .514 TS%
    Iguodala: 16.9 PER, .550 TS%
    Martin: 18.3 PER, .596 TS%

    All-Star Games: Deng 2, Iguodala 1, Martin 0

    Kevin Martin signed a 4 year, $27.755 contract this summer, an average of just a tad under $7 million a year.

    Andre Iguodala just signed a 4 year, $48 million contract this summer, an average of $12 million per year.

    I'm pretty sure even the largest Deng-haters on earth don't believe that he will sign for anything less than $10 million/per next summer.

    Martin is 30, Iggy 29, Deng 28, so age isn't a factor at all......... just like PER isn't a factor at all.

    John Hollinger himself knows PER is complete bull-shit. How else do you explain the fact that:

    Memphis was dead fucking last in 3pt makes and attempts last season, 24th in 3pt%, and 28th in eFG%.

    Little Nate Robinson has had PERs of 18.0 and 17.4 the last 2 seasons, which would have ranked 3rd and 4th on last year's Grizzlies.

    Nate has hit 39.1% of his 3's over the last two seasons on 5.8 attempts per 36 minutes.

    So even though the Grizzlies are dying for outside shooting, they didn't bother to even try and sign Nate, even though he barely got $4 million for 2 years from Denver.

    They decided they were better off with old man Mike Miller instead.

    You'll have to read my blog for the complete explanation of "The Bulls, PER, and the idiots who live by it".

    Apologies to Doug, I don't even know why Deng is being discussed here- I listened to BullsBeat this afternoon, and from what I recall Deng was barely mentioned.

  • Upon doing further research, maybe I was wrong about this PER thing- after all, I did learn a few interesting tidbits:

    If PER makes Deng a "mediocre" player, it also makes:

    Carlos Boozer the 60th best player in NBA history. I knew he was good, I had no clue he was THAT good.

    But I guess that makes sense- last season, Carlos Boozer had the worst PER of his career. However, even at his absolute worse, he was still better than;

    Paul George- an All-Star who was 2nd-Team All-Defense and 3rd-Team All-NBA. But Boozer is better than him, even when playing the worst basketball of his career.
    Pau Gasol
    Jrue Holiday- so even at his absolute career worst, Boozer is better than TWO All-Stars
    Kawhi Leonard
    Damien Lillard- Cool, career-worst-season Boozer was still better than the Rookie Of The Year
    Kevin Martin
    Luis Scola
    Chandler Parsons
    Andre Iguodala
    There's the Mendoza line. Boozer is not only better than the following players, but the players on this list are below average players.

    Omer Asik- I thought I had read a comment here in the last week or two that the Bulls were crazy to let Asik go because he was an All-Star level player. I must be mistaken, how could anybody possibly think that Asik is anywhere near an All-Star caliber center when the PER proves he is actually a below-average NBA player.

    Taj Gibson- I don't know why so many people are clamoring for him to start over Boozer, even in his best season he wasn't as good as Carlos was in his worst season.

    OJ Mayo

    The best news is that Boozer is still in great shape, so he should be able to at least get back to his 2011-12 level, when he was the #43 overall player in the NBA. He had a 17.1 PER last season, and the last two times he had an under-18.0 PER (2002-03 and 2008-09), he bounced back with an over-20.0 PER the next season.

  • The Baby BozoHole strikes again.

    I case that you didn't notice, I provided analysis by other so called experts(at least they work for ESPN) and have worked in NBA front offices. Neither was my analysis.

    But yes, we all know that not only are you smarter than anyone else who posts on this website, you are certainly smarter than anyone who works for ESPN and covers the NBA for a living, or people who work in NBA front offices for a living. Heck, you are certainly smarter than anyone who has ever commented on the game of basketball.

    Come to think of it, you are even smarter than anyone who posts on Paducahville, the bog for intelligent Bulls fans. That must be the signature accomplishment in your life. Oh, wait that only makes you smarter than yourself, which come to think of it, is a perfect description.

    2 more gold stars and a lollipop for the Baby BozoHole

    It must be tough living with blinders on and a concrete skull, I applaud your effort, even if you are still failing miserably in the decent human being category.

  • LMAO.

    Kyler's "analysis" consisted 100% of using his PER to judge him against other players. And this "analysis" was also used by the poster to judge Deng.

    That's EXACTLY what I did, use Boozer's PER to compare him to other players.

    But yeah, when a person's own analysis method comes back to bite them in the ass, going to 6 paragraphs of nothing but personal insults and ZERO basketball talk is sure to work every time.

    To once again quote myself from another thread:
    "I'd issue a challenge right now that I'll agree to respect the MBB's if they want to agree to the same thing. They started it, but I'm more than willing to be the man and put an end to it right here.

    We'll find out if they are man enough to do the same thing.

    I don't know how long you've been posting here, but do you think they will really start respecting people?"

    Well, I'm 1/3 of the way to being proven 100% correct- but I actually hope that I wind up being 2/3 wrong. Hopefully now that I've thrown out an olive branch, Reese1 and Edward are big enough men to join me and actually talk basketball and leave out the name-calling and personal attacks.

  • But I do have to credit the 1/3 for a compliment, he did say that :

    "I provided analysis by other so called experts(at least they work for ESPN)"

    I just hope he doesn't put a bullet in his head when he realizes that, you know, I used to, um, you know, work at, um, ESPN.

    That I've appeared on ESPN Radio as an NBA analyst, a SportsCenter anchor, and a co-host of the Florida Sports Reporters.

    Poor little guy, in his immature attempt to ridicule me, he's gone and given me a huge compliment. I almost feel bad for him......

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