Value of the Chicago Bulls trade chips

There are several ways to improve a team, the most difficult is the trade. With that in mind, lets take stock of what the Bulls have to offer and its value on the open market.

Not selling

Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah don't appear to be for sale. It seems like those two pieces are going to be left out of any deal regardless of how good the other player is. I get why you don't trade the franchise player, especially when he's Chicago born and raised. I also get why they don't want to trade Noah, but he should be made available in the right deal.

One of the things likely holding them back on moving Noah is that any player good enough to move him for will probably cost them 20 million a year which is an additional disincentive to trade him. Maybe in the perfect storm like Noah for LeBron or Noah for Dwight Howard he'd become available, but he's not available at a reasonable price.

Unwanted

Carlos Boozer isn't going to bring much back in terms of trade. The Bulls don't have too much incentive to salary dump him at this point because they can amnesty him to save a good chunk of his cost anyway. On top of that, despite all the Boozer hate, you're not going to get a better player than Boozer at five million or less.

The second the Bulls lose Boozer for nothing they've weakened the team. That said, Boozer probably isn't so hard to move right now if you aren't pick about what you're taking back. Chicago might be able to move Boozer now for a really bad expiring deal and might be able to include him in a trade as salary filler in the right deal [including him would mean they'd likely need to give up more assets though].

The Desirables

Jimmy Bulter is probably the Bulls number one trade asset right now. There's a hint of Paul George like potential in his game where his offense is trending upwards and his defense is already amongst the best in the league. Unlike George, Butler doesn't have so much youth on his side though. He'll have fewer years to show improvement and is more likely closer to his ceiling after two years than George was.

That said, Butler should be very desirable to any team especially with two cheap years left on his deal. It will be interesting to see what he demands in terms of an extension in a couple years though because he may become one of those players too good to let go, but not good enough to pay big bucks to which becomes a difficult negotiating point.

The Charlotte pick gets a bit more valuable every year while not cashed in. The pick will come due sometime in the next three years now, and the Bobcats are still set up to be pretty bad. Interestingly with the addition of Al Jefferson, they don't appear to be going into total tank mode which could be the best scenario for Chicago.

If the Bobcats don't land a top thee or four pick in this upcoming draft, they likely don't get the star player they need to turn things around. However it's still three long seasons the Bulls need the Bobcats to suck for, and they need them to utterly implode on that final one, in order for this to really pay dividends. Not to mention they'd also have to hope for a strong 2016 draft.

The pick isn't really a gold mine, but it's clearly risen in value since it was given to Chicago, and it looks more and more likely to yield a lottery selection even if it's a late one.

Nikola Mirotic looks awfully good for a European prospect and he could be brought over next summer so the biggest reason teams passed on him (length of time before he could play) has now passed. That said, it's not a lock that Mirotic would come over for any team. There were rumors that he specifically wanted Chicago (and likely a few other markets), so there's no guarantee you could throw him in a Kevin Love deal and convince him to go to Minnesota.

That said, he's a young player decorated about as highly as any European player has been at his age. He should be viewed as a guy who likely becomes at least a starting caliber PF in the NBA. Unfortunately, he's not going to come over for the rookie salary scale contract, so a team will have to work out a better deal and negotiation may be tough.

Worth a bit more than an expiring deal

Luol Deng is an expiring deal, and he's also a pretty good player. The Bulls could obviously swap him out for an expiring of a lower caliber player pretty easily. The question is whether or not you could get anything back in the process while doing so. My guess is that in terms of future assets you could get back a player with low end starter / role player potential with a year or two in the league or a draft pick that's lotto protected which is valued similarly.

Not really much of a return in terms of giving up Deng, but it's something worth considering around the trade deadline in the unlikely even that things are going really, really poorly, and you know it's not going to happen this year.

Taj Gibson starts the first year of an extension that pays him 8-9.5 million per year depending on which incentives he hits. He may be overpaid by a million or two per season or maybe not. It kind of depends on what he shows he can do with more minutes, whether he can stay healthy, and whether he can improve his offense.

I think there's a good chance we'll see Taj improve this season offensively going from playing next to Nate Robinson to Kirk Hinrich. Say what you want about Kirk Hinrich, but he's pretty good at finding guys in their spots and getting them touches/looks to feel comfortable. He's not a dynamic playmaker in terms of getting people open looks, but he is good at running an offense.

If Taj shows a bit of an uptick in his production then his value can improve considerably, but like Deng, he's basically positive salary filler rather than a key piece in a deal. It would be tough to move Taj in any deal that didn't bring back a big man to replace him, but that might make sense both ways. Say you trade for LaMarcus Aldridge, Taj Gibson + Kirk Hinrich might be better filler than Luol Deng from Portland's perspective.

One problem with moving Taj as filler is that his salary isn't really high enough to get you where you want to go in terms of the players you might trade him for, nor do the Bulls really have a secondary filler player to add unless its Deng. If they trade both and don't get two core pieces back they'll be giving up on the season while making a trade even if strengthening themselves for the future which seems like a less likely move for them.

Marquis Teague likely carries some positive value. The fact he slipped to 30 in the draft means that this value isn't too high as every team in the league passed on him once, nor did he do a whole ton to improve it in his rookie year. However, Teague did show signs that first year and likely impressed anyone who saw him in summer league in back to back years with how he improved his attitude and approach.

Teague's probably a minor throw in to increase the value of a deal or possibly someone you could flip for a late first rounder (20+) in the upcoming draft. If he's able to find the court at all and show his improvement goes beyond summer league then his value might rise further.

Mike Dunleavy Jr signed a nice deal with Chicago. Relative to other signings this off-season, I thought he was under priced at his MMLE deal. Dunleavy can't be traded until December, but when that time comes, he's likely worth a bit more than his contract. Given his age/salary level, he's not going to draw a first round pick, but I'd bet you could flip him for a usable second rounder or he'd be a positive as a throw in to complete a deal.

Neutral value

Kirk Hinrich makes around four million a year, and I know plenty of Bulls fans aren't so excited about the captain. He's not a particularly great player and has had trouble staying healthy. That said with just one year on his deal left his contract isn't bad, he can run a team, shoot, defend, and provides plenty of veteran leadership.

While I doubt you can land anything for Kirk Hinrich, his presence in any trade is unlikely to be viewed as a negative.

Tony Snell didn't prove anything in summer league and may have been a reach on draft day. The best thing he might have going for him is that the Bulls have nailed their late round firsts. You could do worse than just assume the Bulls were right and trade for the guy they took. That said, I'm not sure at this point you'd get anything at all for Snell even another 1st rounder back. He'll have the chance to prove himself on the court though.

Erik Murphy is nothing but salary filler at this point if he even makes the team. He showed nothing at summer league and was selected at the point where you could buy a pick for probably 100k if wanted.

Nazr Mohammed isn't going to excite anyone, but he could be used as a non-negative guy to fill in an extra tiny piece of deal salary wise if necessary.
Guys at the minimum

Putting together the complete package

When looking over the Bulls assets, the good news is the lack of negatives. Only Boozer is toxic, and I don't even think his toxicity is that bad anymore. That said, their problem is the lack of truly desirable assets. Their best assets are Butler, the Bobcats pick, and Mirotic with Deng/Gibson/Hinrich available to match salaries.

When you start looking at what a combination of those things can get you, it doesn't seem all that pretty. Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge were both kept over taking the #1 pick in the draft this season [without a salary filler being necessary], so it doesn't strike me as likely that our assets add up to more than that even if the #1 pick wasn't that desirable this season.

In short, it seems to me the Bulls are most likely best off not making a trade unless something amazing falls in their lap. I don't personally think Aldrdige/Love are good enough to put them over the top, and I think there's a good chance in three years you're worse off for giving up two of your prime assets and a valuable role player to get one.

If a superstar became available, the Bulls should bid, but they likely don't have the kind of piece that puts them over the top in such a bidding process. In short, even if they offer all three of their prime assets and good filler contracts it likely won't close the deal due to lack of truly high upside players in the process, and they'd need to potentially replace four rotation players in the future after the deal.

Chicago finds themselves in a tough spot. They've got a very good team with plenty of positive things going on, but they appear a piece short still, and I don't see any likely way that piece is coming via trade.

Filed under: Trade rumors

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  • Boozer's only real value in a trade may be if Aldridge or Love demand to be traded to the Bulls. Both teams are trying to win and would like scoring PF. And Boozer's deal would expire before extensions for their point guards.

    And I think there's a good chance Mirotic never plays for the Bulls. The Bulls will be more limited in what they can pay him (MLE), but he could get more this upcoming summer with the Lakers, for example. And I do think that he may not object to playing with his Spanish teammate Rick Rubio if traded to Minnesota.

    Anyone think Orlando would consider Deng and a pick for Afflalo?

  • Ok so this is why the Bulls management needs to take some chances as far as trades are concerned. Doug you say that Love or Aldridge wouldn't put theBulls over the top but they would bring more options to the team more so than Boozer. First and foremost would be heart from both players especially on defense, something Boozer knows nothing about. Love and Lamarcus are very good rebounders with Love being the better of the two, both have very good perimeter games as PF's with Love being a very good stretch 4, so those options alone would be better fits than Boozer. I personally feel that if the Bulls are to get any one of those guys, their gonna have to wait til both guys contracts are coming to an end. Meanwhile the Bulls other assets like Deng, Mirotic, and theBobcats pick sould definitely be used in any such deal for Love or Aldridge. Some hard decisions are coming for the Bulls management after this season and it will be interesting to see how they will screw up and either overvalue players again or let players leave for nothing once again.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Bulls management should also keep in their minds that they will be in competition in free agency with the Lakers after this season who at this point are a desperate team trying to get good players to come to L.A. to help Kobe win in his last few years in the league. Kevin Love is fron L.A. so that alone may be a no win situation for the Bulls to bring him to Chicago. So again, some big decisions need to be made by the Bulls brass going into this season.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Love actually grew up and went to high school in Oregon, but I agree with your overall point that L.A. will generally be an obstacle for the Bulls in free agency after this season.

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    While Butler is likely the most valuable trade asset of the current players (outside of Noah and Joakim who aren't even up for trade discussions), I'd argue that he's also just as valuable to the Bulls because he has the quickness and shooting to play SG, and the strength to play SF (the only guy on the roster capable of both positions full-time).

    I know Dunleavy has been talked about as a 2, but I really don't see that being something that happens more than once in a great while. Keep in mind, if Butler is traded for a guy who plays a position other than SG, the Bulls then have no starting SG or they're forced to start Kirk Hinrich. Because of this, I feel like Butler is virtually as untouchable as Rose and Noah especially considering his cheap contract. Throw in that we don't know what will happen with Deng, and Butler becomes in discussion for the starting SF.

  • In reply to Colin Spence:

    Agreed, Butler at this point should be considered as part of the Bulls new core of players that are untouchable.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    You want the Bulls to take chances, but only with players no one wants?

  • Problem is they are at a crossroads. Jimmy like Taj before him is valuable now but after his new deal likely next season is going to drop to salary filler type. Deng can easily drop to unwanted level after his new deal is reached unless it is reasonable say around 8 million per. This is his last big payday though and I don't see him giving out hometown discounts.

    Its a tough spot no doubt. Do nothing and you likely never win a championship outside of a miracle run ala the Mavs. Which seems highly unlikely as Dirk was insanely efficient on that run something a much smaller Rose has struggled with in the playoffs.

    Here is one thing that could work though but would require a lot of luck. Move up for Andrew Wiggens or Jabari Parker. Would need Charlotte to land the 13th pick and us to give up our pick(s) and most if not all our positive assets but if we could hold Rose and Noah that could give us our own big three. Likely we would still have Boozer because no one is knocking down the door for him so that would only leave us a SG spot to fill and our mmle or mle to do so.

    Your right that trading for vets rarely puts you over the top although Boston pulled it off but Lakers couldn't despite two one sided trades for all star players. Trading for high Draft picks has been more successful though. That is how we got Pippen traded up for him in the draft. Jordan was the best of all time but couldn't have been as successful without Pippen. Rose needs a great number two.

  • In reply to Chad:

    Problem is, whomever has the top pick to select Wiggins or Parker isn't trading that pick period! And not for anything on Bulls roster. Not Noah, probably not even Rose.

  • In reply to Chad:

    Would absolutely love for the Bulls to have Jabari Parker. If by some odd chance the Bulls picked up a lottery pick pre drawing this year and won again. How crazy would that be to pair two Simeon boys for your new core?

  • The Bulls may have slightly overpaid Taj Gibson. But in terms of tradeability that could be a positive. With Taj before last year (and the problem with Butler now) the problem is that it's virtually impossible to get value in return for a rookie contract. Butler is still on that contract while Taj is now a starting talent making 6th man money. Because of that, Taj and the Charlotte pick are probably Chicago's best trade assets right now.

    If Tony Snell pans out as a SG that might force the Bulls to make a decision between Deng and Butler at the 3. Age would suggest they keep Jimmy but it's not an obvious choice. Say Deng agrees to a smaller contract while Butler has some serious suitors, that could mean one more contract for Luol in Chicago. It wouldn't surprise me and it could be grounds for a lot of controversy because it seems that fans tend to place greater value on Jimmy while the FO continues to view Deng as an essential championship piece.

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    That should've been "...a S&T for Butler and one more contract for Luol in Chicago".

  • In reply to Redwhitenblack:

    And keeping a one dimensional player like Deng over Butler would be a big mistake imo. Sounds like fans want to overvalue Deng again. I say let him go and test free agency if the Bulls can't trade him or comeup with a reasonable extension.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    So letting a backup center go is a huge mistake, even if you have to overpay him. But a guy who plays 40 minutes a night and makes all-star teams and is the glue of the team in many respects, and who isn't going to command near a max deal, it is ok to let him walk over a couple of million per year? And his backup who isn't as good as he is yet and may never be, he is basically untouchable? Makes sense to me...

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Let's see...how did the Bulls do without Deng in the playoffs and in the Miami series Butler guarding Lebron? Butler did a whole hell of a better job against the best player in the league than Deng will ever do. Lebron torches Deng everytime the Bulls plays Miami so like i said earlier...some fans overvalue Deng and his one dimensional style of play while Butler is on the rise offensively and especially on the defensive end. But yet Deng to some fans is the more valuable? Deng has value in years in the league and that's it while Butler is about to pass Deng in talent and the more versatile player.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    So the fact they beat the Nets without Rose means they don't need Rose either, do they...

    LBJ averaged ~ 24/7/8 against the bulls. Butler didn't do anything Deng doesn't do against LBJ. I'm not sure what you are watching if you think LBJ torches Deng, because that couldn't be farther from the truth.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Luol-Deng-vs-LeBron-James|2736,2544;year=201213;season=r

    I would say LeBron scores easier against Deng, but only because he seems to take it as a 1-on-1 challenge (see strong dip in APG), and frankly, Deng can't keep up with LBJ at this point like he used to be able to do.

    HOWEVER, that seems to be okay, because while LBJ is trying to fill out some personal vendetta against Deng on the court, it looks like the rest of the Heat are standing around doing not much (-7.7 rating).

    If you think about when the Bulls have done well against the Heat, it is when LBJ is playing 1-on-5 offensively.

    That all being said, I'd like to see Deng and Butler swap guarding Wade and LBJ periodically throughout the game (like Pippen and Jordan would do). For no other reason that to keep throwing different looks and energy at them.

  • Trades aren't easy, just look at what Portland is asking for Aldridge(Noah+Butler+draft picks) for what? two years and there is no guarantee he will resign with the Bulls. The Bulls have been dangling both Deng and Boozer in trade talks and they haven't had good return value despite these two scoring 16 points a game and being great rebounders on a winning team.

    I agree with everyone that the Bulls need a legit number two scoring star next to Rose. Can Butler and Snell be great offensive talents next to Rose? Will Deng extend to a cap friendly salary? There's just too many unknowns and the Bulls have to let 2014 plan play out. Maybe an upset Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitski or Kobe bryant wants to sign with the Bulls at a discount to compete for a championship. There's just many unknown variables right now.

  • Bulls have played their cards perfectly, aside from letting Asik go. (Extending him after his 1st season would have been the way to go, but he was hurt in the Miami series... oh, what could have been!)

    When you consider that the Bulls acquired Asik, and preferred to keep him, you can see how GarPax is the best talent evaluator in the business. Gibson late in the 1st? Asik via trade, I think with Portland. Butler the last pick in the 1st? Too early to tell about Teague and Snell.

    (I'm not a Teague fan, but he has rising value given his contract and age and athletic ability. Snell will ride the pine, but could contribute in year 2 as a terrific 2 way player that can shoot.)

    You cannot trade Mirotic at this point. By all accounts he should be a nice NBA stretch 4, which is perfect for Rose and Noah.

    I'd trade the Charlotte pick to speed up the Bulls' window of opportunity, but really, that could yield a superstar if it's just an average to above average draft.

    Whatever you do, you do NOT trade Butler unless it's a sweet deal. Butler is what the Bulls have been looking for the last few years - a nice 2 way SG with range. While not known for his shooting, he really showed his shooting potential last year - especially in the playoffs. There were time against Miami and Brooklyn where he was the only guy on the court who could score.

    If the Butler can play like he did last year and the Bulls can just stay healthy, I think they can take out the Heat. I really do. When you smother Wade and James with Butler and Deng and clog the lane like SA did, how could they not have a chance. Miami cannot triple team Rose with Noah and Butler emerging and the improved shooting on the floor. Bogans, Brewer and Hamilton will not be playing SG anymore, which is HUGE.

  • In reply to Granby:

    I agree with your points.

    Both Butler and Mirotic have big upside, so unless you are moving them in a trade that gives you a good shot at Miami, why do it?

    I also think the Bulls, if healthy (which is a major condition), could take the Heat. Butler, Teague and Dunleavy could be the keys here. If they are clicking, I see the Bulls trading for the backup C at the trade deadline. That might do it.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Whoa Whoa Whoa. Butler scored like 10 pts a game in 48 mins vs the Heat. Sure he played amazing defense but that is no reason to make the assumption Bulls can beat the Heat because of him. I like Jimmy but he has to improve a hell of a lot on offense before I view him as a real difference maker instead of just a defensive grinder. Which he currently is.

    Statistically he was only marginally better than Brewer was playing the same minutes for the Bulls. So stating he will be a HUGE upgrade on him isn't factual unless you are assuming he comes back way better offensively than last year... I like him but I think a lot of people are vastly over rating his contributions and his potential.

  • I guess it is obvious, but the Bull's future hinges on talent evaluation. What if they did not have Butler and Taj? Then there would not be a lot of hope, would there?

    So, if Butler continues his growth, and if Teague and Snell develop well, their trade value naturally increases, which makes it more likely to get a top talent in a trade. These kids become more important chips.

    But that won't happen if they are on the bench. Like Defense-Rebound 13 wrote, "There are too many variables." Thibs needs to play these kids more! So the Bulls know who good their talent evaluation has been. That will dictate their next moves.

    Rose, Noah, Butler and Taj can all start. So probably could Mirotic. So if the Bulls engineer a trade for a top talent, or get one as a FA, or draft one, they are there! They need to keep their options open for now.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    The only weakness you mentioned is that backup center spot. Seems the Bulls are waiting it out for traning camp cuts which is smart but could also backfire. Maybe even a guy like Haddadi who looked solid last year with Phoenix and a legit 7'2" with 5 years experience. They liked Elton Brand and I did too, great two way player and locker room presence but he went for the money. The shooting is upgraded and all core players are healthy with young players showing promise but the Asik role still not replaced with a quality backup with a defensive mindset. Maybe they can trade 2 second round picks for a nice backup center by the deadline.

  • First let ME make a few assumptions.

    1--Butler will start at the 2G from Day 1, and Improve His Offense.

    2--Teague, for whatever reason, will get increased minutes this year and Increase his value and standing as a VERY YOUNG, yet proficient Point Guard trained by Thibs,2 years experience.

    3--Heinrich will be gone after this year(no extention likely).

    4--Taj's Contract is WAY TOO HIGH because it was given him on the assumption he would improve last year---he didn't---he regressed.(What if he Doesn't improve this year?

    Big Questions

    Do you give amnesty to Boozer?
    Do you re-sign Deng.
    Do you bring over Mirotic?

    And my Favorite,

    How many Healthy Games do you get out of Noah? MY biggest gripe with our FO is their stand on Nazr ONLY as back-up to Noah.
    We are not just talking backup minutes here...,we KNOW he will be out stretches of games and we KNOW Nazr cant play Big Minutes for Stretches of Games).

    Gar/PAX have lots of cards, I'd say, but others at the table have some good,as well as unpredictable, hands too. The goal is to WIN the entire pot..,eh Championship.., not split it and come close.

    Comments?????

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    Rakmessiah,

    1. Agree on Butler getting even better.
    2. I'm so-so on Teague. He's just so young and needs to play his game. I'm not sold on his shooting after a few summer league games, but he would be solid if he could just shoot 30% from 3.
    3. Yes, Kirk's gone after this year probably. Unless he takes min and returns, which he could. I doubt he gets much higher than min offers unless he's healthy and has a career year.
    4. Yes, Taj's contract is high, but it's not terrible. I think his best couple years are immediately ahead of him.

    And...
    5. Yes, you amnesty Boozer, most likely. But, it depends on Mirotic, Deng and anyone that takes Deng's place, should he leave...

    6. Yes, you try to resign Deng unless it's totally unreasonable. Hopefully he takes $10 mil over 4 years, but perhaps the Bulls are forced to pay $12 mil/year??? I just can't see another team out there giving Deng Josh Smith-type money, or even close to it. Deng is a nice player, but limited offensively, already in his prime, and not an exciting splash for the fans since he plays below the rim.

    7. Yes, you bring over Mirotic in a heartbeat. He should be able to contribute from day 1. He would have been a low lottery pick in 2011 if it was assured that he would come over and play in the NBA right away. And, he will have continued to play for 3 more years. NBA players and coaches have been impressed with him. The Bulls are getting a top free agent next summer, should he come. Of course, he's not a big name and ESPN will be talking about LeBron and a bunch of aging superstars like Kobe, Carmelo, etc... Mirotic is like getting a #1 pick, except that he'll be able to step right in and play, unlike the college kids of today who are only 18 and 19 years old!

    8. Noah will roll an ankle at some point and miss time. I'm hoping the plantar fasiitis does not flair up since he's known about it and struggled with it in the past. As far as his backup, the Bulls should just play small or use Nazr against the few teams with big centers rather than pick up some stiff that can guard centers - which is all that they would get at this stage anyway. Deng can play 4 and Taj/Boozer can play 5.

    The future is bright for the Bulls. Just need to stay healthy... a big if for anyone not named LeBron these days.

  • In reply to Granby:

    And, regarding point 6 on Deng, don't get me wrong - Deng is a great player and should be signed. An improved wrist and playing alongside a top NBA playmaker again in Rose should allow Deng to have his best year as a pro, IMO. Stars are aligning for Deng: Contract year, should be fully healthy, team should be fully healthy and better (Noah, Butler, Dunleavy), his 3 pt shooting has improved later in his career, etc... Deng should age nicely since his game is not predicated on athletic ability and he's been healthy the last few years. He's just turned 28 and stays in great shape. Look, if Paul Pierce can be impactful and is hitting game winners at 33 and 34 years old, I can see Deng having 4 more solid years.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Deng won't age well as he squeezes every ounce of athleticism out as it is and as that fades so too will his defense. Paul Pierce has a totaly different game than Deng. Pierce is a shooter and crafty scorer Deng is a defender and slasher. Both Deng's strengths are impact much more by fading athleticism.

    Also don't see this as a career year for him. His FG% has dropped the last three years and is at a pedestrian 42%. They should move on when they can find a SG and give Jimmy the reins to SF IMO.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Deng's career year was 2006-7, the year that we swept the defending champion heat in the first round. Other than 3 point shooting he has gone nothing but down hill since. I don't see a career year, contract year or not.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Chad/BigWay,

    Deng shot nearly 52% in '06-'07, but in the four years since shot consistently at 46-48%. He has shot 41-42% the last two years because of the wrist. He could not get to the basket and has become a jump shooter. Last year, the wrist probably improved somewhat, but Rose was out.

    A Healthy wrist and Rose should allow him to shoot closer to 46% like under Thib's 1st year with the Bulls. Plus, he's gone from NEVER shooting 3's prior to Thibs to averaging just under 35% with Thibs and jacking up 200-300+ per season from distance.

    Deng has never been an athletic slasher. His game is based on position and rhythm, like Pierce. Pierce is a better scorer, but both have size and have never been athletic. Both have great footwork.

    I think Deng can ave 45-47% FG with 35-36% from beyond the arc this year and average about 17ppg and 6 rpg. And be a top defender. I think that's worth $10 mil.

    Move forward with Rose, Butler, Deng, Mirotic (Gibson as backup) and Noah. Under the CBA, it's as good as any squad in the NBA, including Miami, which will be washed up by then anyway with Wade 32 or 33 years old.

    What is the alternative? If you slide Butler to SF, you have to find a SG. SG is the hardest slot to fill. It would be nice if Snell develops like Butler has, but that is a lot to ask.

  • In reply to Granby:

    @Granby

    We have 2 major points of disagreement----And I hope you are right and I am wrong on both.

    1--To feel fine with goin' small at the center position is TOO BIG A RISK and could cost us plenty.

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    @Granby

    Picture this ..,Noah out for a 7 game stretch. We'll play Nazr and Taj at C. We playIndiana=Hibbert,Atlanta=Hoford,Brooklyn=Lopez+Blache,Detroit=Monroe+Drummond,Knicks=Chandler,Washington=Nene and Okafor. We throw Taj against these guys, we make them all stars cause Taj is JUST TOO SMALL and will be ineffective AND Foul ALOT. Why would you want to set him up for failure against teams we MUST Beat? These are all Division Teams that will make the playoffs this year.

    Also

    Taj has got to play better this year---If he goes backwards again, we'll be talkin about replacing Him with somebody. He's got to show 2 years improvement to be worth that new contract (this year and last years' improvement). I think this is Way more likely than the above. But they are tied together. You put him at center against those big guys----Bulls will be setting him up for defeat. Hear and there, OK...,but over stretches of games in a row===Disaster.

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    Rak,

    I agree, bro. It's not that we disagree, because I'd love for the Bulls to have a great backup center, but WHO is available and at what cost?

    Camby would have been ok at min, but he's not all that much better than Nazr - just better defensively. Camby would have provided zero offense. Nazr has nice touch inside, but is nothing special defensively.

    Oden is unreliable. Who else is available for short money??? That's why I think the answer may be to go small for short stretches. It's FAR from ideal, but it's an emergency situation. What will Chicago do if Rose is out for long stretches? What about Butler? What will the Heat do if LeBron misses time??? Under the CBA, every team has holes. In a perfect world, the Asik does not get hurt against the Heat in May 2011 and he is extended and still with the Bulls. But, would the Bulls have picked up Dunleavy? Would the Bulls still have Gibson? There is only so much money to go around.

    Why rush out and sign anyone now. At this point, just wait and see if someone remains unsigned and wants to play for min and go for a title.

  • Before this summer I would've said that it would be extremely hard to get anything of value for Boozer. But then Danny Ainge traded KG, Pierce and Terry for Humphries, Wallace's abysmal contract and a couple of draft picks who might turn out to be late first rounders if Prokhorov continues not caring about paying the tax. Basically, the Nets traded crap for 2 future hall of famers that can still give a solid production and a decent bench player. Maybe if the right situation arises, next summer Boozer (and Deng this trade deadline) could be a valuable expiring.

  • In reply to FibGld05:

    It would be nice to get a player of value for Deng and/or Boozer. Or even use them as a piece in a trade for Love or Aldridge.

  • In reply to FibGld05:

    Yes, would be nice to dump Boozer for a future 1st round pick or two.... too bad the Nets don't have any more to give! Would Brooklyn have given up a future 1st or two and Humphries for Boozer? Would set the table for the Bulls moving forward, but the Bulls would take a definite step back this year - a year where they have a shot to win it all.

    I'm not sure that either Pierce or Garnett is much better at this stage in their careers than Boozer has been lately. IMO, both Pierce and Garnett are washed up - they could have 1 more solid year, but Brooklyn will miss those picks in a few years.

    This will go down as a tremendous trade for the C's... they have 3 picks for sure from Brooklyn, and they can swap picks in another year. So, that's 3 additional 1sts and a chance to move up in the draft in another year. IMO, Brooklyn could be pretty bad by that point due to salary cap hell and aging players. Boston is going to be terrible for 3-4 years, but could be dominant by 2018-2020! Especially if they can off-load Rondo, get another 1st (2014 or in the future) and pick up a stud in this year's draft to get the rebuilding started.

  • C'mon, the fact that Rose is from Chicago (ie jersaey sales ahoy) making him untradeable is the sort of financial move that you should be killing management over. He's not the best player in the league, and considering his injury history right now he's not even in the top 10 players. Of course he should be available in the right deal, just as much as Noah.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Seriously, Shakes? Who are you going to get that's better than Rose? I think by your comments that you are assuming that Rose's MVP season was a fluke and that he will NEVER be healthy again and put up that kind of season again. Fair point - anyone is trade-able for the right price, but it's hard to predict injuries. What NBA player is immune from injuries? Westbrook never missed an NBA game and blows out his knee in the playoffs last year. Jordan missed an entire year.

    You just hope he's lucky and can avoid the major injuries and that he's learned to adjust his game to avoid the brutal hits and awkward landings by constantly launching himself at the basket. Rose needs to pick his moments more and save the hero plays for the playoffs. Distribute more in the regular season and trust his teammates to make plays.

    Trading Rose would yield many 1st rounders, but who would you rather have based on the last few drafts? What young player is potentially better than Rose - Love? Westbrook? Anthony Davis? They have all had their share of injuries.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    He's certainly the best true point guard.

  • Supposedly Rose should come back a better shooter, so he may even be better than in his MVP season. If he drives less to the basket, then he will also be a smarter player. Nice guy to have.

    Even this year, if Butler, Teague, and Snell all take steps up, the Bulls could challenge. If they are looking strong at the trade deadline, look for them to trade for a solid backup at C. If those things happen and if they stay healthy, which is a huge IF, they could take it all.

  • Anyone need any further evidence the owners will get their Hard-Cap with the next CBA??? See the link below from new NBA Commissioner Adam Silver.

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/229305/Silver-Not-Ready-To-Judge-New-CBA-Against-Nets-Big-Spending

    This is why Rein$dorf has not been spending to win an NBA Championship with Derrick Rose. Rein$dorf will win his version of championship when the Hard-Cap becomes a reality!

  • Nobody wants one team to spend a ton and win. It's like the Yankees in baseball - they should win more titles since they usually spend the most money.

    I think the current CBA is pretty harsh judging by the contracts we've seen this summer. Not too many big deals. I think most thought Josh Smith would get max a year or two ago and he got about $13 mil. Jennings wanted max last summer and he ends up with $8 mil...

    I think it's fine the way it is. Brooklyn will lose their a$$ both financially and on the court with this team. Maybe they challenge this year, but in a year or two they will be terrible. They won't get much help from the draft with 3 of their picks given away through 2018 and another that can be swapped at the Celtics option.

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