What to make of the reported power struggle with in the Bulls organization?

So the Chicago Bulls decided not to bring back Ron Adams. It was a move that seemed surprising, but assistants sometimes leave, and most fans probably wouldn't have thought too much of it one way or the other until it was noted the move was made against Tom Thibodeau's will.

Apparently, Adams had been complaining about personnel decisions too loudly and was let go. It seems rather odd given that the Bulls have had pretty good personnel recently, but you can understand why an insubordinate employee might get fired, particularly an assistant.

Then the plot thickens. Adrian Wojnarowski tweets that Thibodeau and Forman easily have the worst relationship between coach and GM in the NBA. Word comes out that Thibodeau taking his time signing his contract wasn't necessarily due to minor lawyer squabbles but was simply a shot across the bow at management.

GarPax are pissed about the minutes Thibs plays the veteran players who keep getting hurt while Thibodeau wants more say in personnel decisions. Oy.

At the press conference to announce the new players, reporters were asked not to discuss the Adams firing and to only discuss the rookies as to not spoil their moment. When that conference ended, Forman came back out alone to discuss Adams preaching a "unite and move forward" mantra while the guy he was uniting with was getting the hell out of dodge.

Forman's choice of words showed that the fracture certainly existed, you don't unite something that isn't broken.

On top of all the Forman/Thibodeau drama, Ron Adams was apparently Derrick Rose's guy too, and Rose is also none to happy about the move either prompting the thought that perhaps Adams was one of the guys sowing roster discontent with Rose or that his firing was also related the Bulls taking a shot at Rose for not coming back last season.

Now Bulls fans probably have a somewhat unique position on these type of issues. We've lived through six NBA titles with a coaching staff and star player that absolutely loathed management. It makes it a bit easier to swallow the present situation than another fan base might be willing to do. That said, we'll also always wonder if the failure to get along short changed us a couple of rings.

So what to make of this whole mess?

First, if Adams was simply a sacrificial lamb who didn't really do anything then this is a big mistake. I have no idea how insubordinate Adams was being with his commentary, but I certainly hope it was extreme. If Adams was fired just so Garpax could exercise control over Thibodeau and show their power then we're simply missing one of the leagues best assistants for no useful reason now, and that's not helping anyone.

This is doubly true since Adams was close to Rose. The three most important people in this organization right now might be Rose, Noah, and Thibodeau. If you've single handedly pissed off two of those people with this move, you'd better have a damn good reason for it. A reason which really wasn't elaborated on and likely won't be elaborated on further.

If Thibodeau and Adams were pissed about the personnel (and Rose for that matter given the news with his brother so long ago) then I know some fans will say "hell yeah, they should be" to which I'd respond, are you out of your mind? This isn't exactly Kevin Garnett widdling away his prime years on 40 win teams here.

The Bulls probably don't have enough to beat Miami, they really could use another go to scorer, and if you can't understand why solving either of those challenges is mission impossible for management, then there's no point really having the discussion. Some problems don't have practical solutions, but the Bulls have fielded a pretty good group the past few years, and when they had to cut the whole bench mob due to costs came right back with another decent set of players.

They're one quality big man away from having one of the deepest teams in the NBA again this season as well. They may not be the best, but there are probably 25 teams looking up at them. That doesn't mean management should sit back on their laurels and do high fives for being an ECF threat team, but it does mean that they haven't completely jacked things up like people often seem to think.

Where does this go from here?

Probably no where good. The theory is that Thibodeau and Forman may not work together for too long. Ownership is historically insanely loyal towards management while Thibs has got a four year guaranteed contract on the table. Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

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  • Well said, do you think Thibs takes a page out of Doc's and Skile's playbook and quits on the team before his 4 years are up?

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Imo, this doesn't end good. Rose and Thibs will probably be gone in a few years if not before then. Every excuse there is is being made for the Bulls FO F-ups. When it comes to signing big name free agents and retaining their own valuable personnel, players or coaches and assistants the Bulls FO seem to rub people the wrong way. I just don't see things ending well for the Bulls organization if the owner and management do damage control and everyone gets on the same page. GarPax...need to be fired...SERIOUSLY!!!

  • Mom, Dad please stop fighting

  • This all stems from last offseason and the controversial move of not matching Asik. Ron Adams was super high on Asik and called him one of the league's elite interior defenders and of course its reasonable he was furious with the Bulls decision not to match, athletic intelligent 7 footers don't grow on trees. The Bulls also demolished the impressive 3 pt shooters of Korver, Watson, JL3 and we saw last season the Bulls struggled from the 3pt line with Deng regressing and Belinelli not being the sharp shooter everyone wanted. Now we're hearing its about Thibodeau's minutes and that is a concern since many of his core players burn out and are injury plagued but I think they are trying to change the storyline.

    Both sides are at fault here, Thibodeau has to learn from popovich and use a more extensive rotation to prepare for the battle of the playoffs and Foreman has to make better decisions........Hinrich signing BAD, not matching Asik BAD, so I don't blame Ron Adams complaining, I'm sure Derrick Rose feels the same way and we saw the Bulls regress from being the number 1 or 2 defensive fg% team to all the way to 9th place. They also slid to the 20th ranked 3pt shooting team. Now let's see what they do with Noah's backup, can they land Elton Brand or another quality veteran to backup Noah and give him a rest instead of playing 40 minutes.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    GarPaxDorf has to loosen up the purestrings and give Thibs something more than Nazr (early version), VladRad, and Cook on the vet-min.

    Thibs isn't going to just play them just to play them. They have to actually be, you know, decent.

  • I am not so sure that I agree with you on comparing Kevin Garnett at 40 to Rose. With Rose's surgery and the style in which he plays, I don't think you can expect to get more than 3 or 4 more seasons out of him. He will be 25 in October.

    The management of this team is very frustrating. Sure, they get really nice role players but that is not enough. Sure, we are over the tax line, but look at the teams that are competing. All of them are over and their GMs still find a way to get good players that can start and contribute. The way sign and trades work, it is pretty easy to get a free agent if you really want him.

    I think everyone would agree that Kevin Martin would make the team better. Why not offer OKC Rip/Hinrich or the Korver exception and a first round pick in 2015. OKC would do the deal because the get something for him and I am sure that Martin would like the idea of it because he could start on a team that would compete for the title.

  • In reply to do53:

    Interesting thought on Martin, but he has reportedly agreed to a 4 year deal with Minny. OKC reportedly did not want to lose him, would they trade him for a #1 pick, maybe so. However, with tax implications Martin would have cost us $15 million this year and wacked off about half of our remaining projected cap room for next summer.

  • I'd like to think Gar had a reasonable reason for not rehiring Adams, it sounds like he didn't beyond having thin skin and much jealousy about Thib's reputation.
    If I ran a company and my GM fired a middle management guy, just for a power play, I'd let that GM go immediately.

  • In reply to Hoover:

    Unless the Owner and VP of Basketball Operations ok'd it.

  • Well this is not a situation that doesn't have precedent: Phil Jackson ( recently in L A, AND in Chicago) , Mike Brown in Cleveland, and look at George Karl in Denver. . Winning doesn't always guarantee harmony. You need a FO that is secure enough to get the hell out the way and letthe primary players do the damn thing. You see Pat Riley in the stands Mitch Kupchak sitting in the crowd, but they speak when it's a time to speak, when it's a time to act (actually improve the team) they act, and don't leave their fan base holding their breath: we need a second scorer WAIT FOR IT. We need shooting WAIT FOR IT. We need to secure our COY WAIT. . Meanwhile we have Morey in Houston putting this FO to damn shame, Larry Bird back in Indiana, and this group wants to alienate an outstanding coach. Think about draft night, you're the coach and these mfs draft someone you KNOW you aren't playing, they are planning on letting contributors go and turning over the roster for the 3rd in 3years. They overpay for marginal playersand cry cashstrapped so nothing is gonna get done for at least 2more years btw.... This year your overworked contributors need to rest and we're gonna monitor you TO MAKE SURE YOU DO.YOUR.JOB. You wouldn't want to duct tape a few people? ?

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:

    Some fans want to keep going back to the fact that Thibs is the problem by having players play a lot of minutes, well its what he has to do with a limited amount of scoring and rebounds from some players. I seen this problem coming 3 years ago when Rose was really the only go to scoring threat that could create his own shot for this bulls team. I mean it's common basketball sense when it comes to the Bulls roster and people like Ron Adams knows it, Thibs knows it, Derrick and Reggie Rose knows it. I don't know about Gar Forman, but John Paxson should know what it's going to take to win championships but the money has to be paid to bring in the right players for this team to win titles and it's not being done and why???...only the owner has the answer to that question.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I'm pretty sure if Thibs got some better players than vet-min dudes, he would play them. This is on GarPaxDorf.

  • Unfortunately this is a problem at the top and will not resolve itself until ownership is changed. Ie the BlackHawks and theWirtz family.

    Coach Thibs overachieved and probably could've done more with more. This is a large market with a small market mentality. The sad part is that the arguing is for ego and not for improvement. Ownership wants us to pay money for this foolishness. Lol

  • Doug - why can the Bulls not beat the Heat next year? I realize the Heat won the title, but do you think they are currently or will be anywhere near as good as when the Bulls lost to them in 2011? They won the title this year with some otherworldly play by Lebron - that will always be an issue and difficult to deal with. But the Pacers and Spurs - no world beaters themselves - each took the Heat to 7 and came within inches of taking them out.

    No one wants to admit it, but Wade is washed up. He's breaking down, doesn't stay in shape, and his athleticism has had a rapid decline as a result. He's still a pretty good player, but he's not close to the Wade of 2-3 years ago. Bosh scored zero points in Game 7 of the Finals and was essentially a role player the rest of the way. The guy is mentally broken. Miller might retire, Battier is angling for TV gigs, Ray Allen was garbage in the playoffs except for one shot, and Chalmers/Cole/Haslem were all worse YoY. I'm not saying they're done for, but I think it's clear they are at least on the decline.

    The Bulls, however, are looking up. The one major caveat to anything I say is that Rose has to be himself come playoff time. If he's not a superstart caliber player than none of this matters, but...compared to where they were in 2011 with a healthy Rose, the following has changed:
    1) Noah is a much improved player on both sides of the floor.
    2) Jimmy Butler instead of Bogans/Brewer is an upgrade so drastic it can't be explained, only seen and understood.
    3) Deng is still Deng.
    4) Boozer just had his best season as a Bull and actually performed in the playoffs.
    5) Mike Dunleavy is legit. I know people have had a mixed reaction here but the guy not long ago put up 19/5/3 for a season. He is not that anymore, but as a 6th man? Best they've had in a while.
    6) People lament the loss of the bench mob and point to that as a reason they'll be worse than in 2011. Except their bench is amazing no matter who they put there (see last year). And moreover, your top eight guys matter in the playoffs, not your top eleven.
    7) Kirk Hinrich backing up Rose and Butler instead of CJ Watson is another upgrade so drastic, on both sides of the ball, it can't be put into words.

    What am I missing?

  • In reply to stakfry526:

    What are you missing...it's about matchups and the Bulls being able to match the Heat or stop them when they get into the open court and run and score. The Bulls on paper matchup well with the Heat but it's a different story when they play the game in favor of Miami. Two playoff series against LeBron and the Heat and the Bulls only have 2 wins. That should bother a lot of the FO people of the Bulls but I don't think it does all that much. Everyone wants to bring in the cap as an excuse but Chicago is a huge market and that shouldn'tbe an excuse to pay for championships...big city market, small city minds.

  • In reply to stakfry526:

    You are certainly missing the boat on point 4, the only performance that the BozoHole put on in the playoffs was his same old clown act against Miami. As for this being his best season it certainly was not as evidenced by his career worst shooting percentage of 47%.

    His first season was his best as a Bull, and by the end of it, we all hated him. This continuing canard that he played better this year is nothing more than a delusion created by massively diminished expectations created by his first 2 seasons.

  • In reply to stakfry526:

    It's what the Bulls are missing and have been missing for three years at least -- the shooting G. We've all known it for years. Mayo or even Carmelo at F might have given the Bulls the ECF over Miami.

    Did the draft the needed SG this year? If so, the Bulls will likely be in the ECF this season. We will see.

  • In reply to stakfry526:

    Do the Bulls have a chance to beat the Heat? Sure. Is it a great chance? No. Bulls will need everything to go right for them in order to do so:

    1) Rose returning to pre-injury form

    2) Deng+Noah+Boozer+Butler (if he plays big minutes) stays relatively healthy

    3) Heat (Wade) continues to break down, Bosh continues to disappear

    I think the Bulls WILL beat the Heat, but I'm just being really optimistic. I think everybody's point is really, even if we have a 'chance', why not improve that chance by continuing to add some talent every year (like the Heat have done), instead of taking away from the team (as the Bulls have done).

  • 1. Agree, Noah had a very good season last year.
    2. Absolutely agree. Butler might be one of the top 5 SGs in the game if he continues playing like he did in the playoffs. (Not sure it is going to happen but he is at least top 10)
    3. Disagree. By watching the Bulls, you can tell that Deng is not the same guy. A guy that plays as many minutes as him at his age is not going to be as good 2 years later. Especially after the nagging injuries he has experienced.
    4. Booz and Rose for some reason don't play as well together. I have no idea why, but when Rose is out of the lineup Boozer performs better. I would expect that trend to continue this season.
    5. Maybe. I do like Dunleavy but I would have rather had a 6th man that can create a shot as opposed to a run off screens kind of guy. Nate was tough to watch with his irrational confidence sometimes but that is the type of guy we need for a 6th man. Yes, Dunleavy is a better ball handler than Korver but I would have rather had a combo type guard.
    6. No, the Bench suffered tremendously last year. If we had the same bench mob I honestly think we could have won a couple more games against the Heat. When 4 members of your bench are starters in the league the next year, there is no replacing that. (Brewer started for a while in NY, Korver, Asik, Butler). We literally could play 5 guys that could start.
    Just imagine.
    Rose/Nate
    Butler/Korver
    Deng/Brewer
    Booz/Taj
    Noah/Asik
    7. Absolutely not. CJ is better at this point than Hinrich any day of the week. Hinrich is living off his reputation at this point, it is painful to see him on the court.

  • In reply to do53:

    The Bulls record with Hinrich and without him, and Watsons complete lack of contribution would strongly argue against your point 7.

    My guess is that every single Bulls player would support Hinrich over Watson, and I say this admitting that I was for just keeping Watson last season and not "wasting" the money on Hinrich.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I just think that CJ fits better than Hinrich with the current roster (but Nate fits better than either). The thing that worries me most about Hinrich is that they will try to pass him off as our starting SG next season

  • Adrian Wojnarowski. One should bear in mind that he has made some pretty negative comments about the Bulls as an organization previously. If he doesn't drop this nugget that Gar Forman and Thibs have the "worst" relationship between G.M. and coach in the NBA, then this likely doesn't balloon into a huge story.

    Wojo is a highly touted reporter from Yahoo and a usually reliable NBA insider, but I've seen him put out some ridiculous things just like the rest of the national sportswriters. He's not infallible. And this utterance was an off the cuff reaction on Twitter no less.

    NOW, that said, it certainly is plausible. It would reflect what many people across the NBA landscape have voiced and hinted at. A guy like Thibs who is used to being around legit, big time NBA franchises who wheel and deal as legit traders and dynamically pursue NBA entertainment and success for their fans. Now he collides with Richard Nixon(Gar) and the until recently cheap dime store greed hounds known as the Chicago Bulls. Trouble ahead?!

    Let's take a look at Gar Forman. Forman has been disingenuous and high handed for example dealing with other NBA franchises when it comes to trades. When Memphis was interested in Asik, and the Bulls wanted O.J. Mayo, they instead offered previous injured reject Ronnie Brewer which was a slap in the face. They might as well have been saying, "Hey douchebags, sure will do a trade, we get our guy and you get this sack of garbage." Not that Brewer was worthless but what team wants back an injured player they couldn't use for a whole season and then dropped. Teams want the up and coming player which Asik was not the retread. It's a joke and a glimpse at the unmitigated hubris of of old bug eyes, Gar Gar. Same with the Gasol "pursuit." OK, then we want Luol Deng another lottery, good young player in return. Not a f-ing chance says Gar i.e the Bulls.

    If you have a guy whose willing to project that kind of condescending, jack ass frankly image in public, then just what is he capable of or like in private dealings? Then you take his boss John Paxson who regardless of what kind of lightweight D-bag Vinny is(who may well be done in this league as a head coach), you don't hear about responsible, professional V.P.'s vested with the care-taking of a huge business monolith grabbing a subordinate for a sustained choking or scuffle.

    Thibs it should be noted was not an established head coach coming in the way a Pop, Adelman etc. would be. My impression of Thibs is that outside of dealing with players and assistants he can be a bit of a let's say non-imposing and possibly even a bit of a simpleton. I mean the guy literally has no life outside of basketball. Plus he's spent most of his adult life as a subordinate as in assistant, not a head coach as in head honcho. That has to reflect something about his persona.

    Bottom line: previous to this draconian Mega Tax which enables non-profitable, unwatched teams to survive, the Bulls would have finally paid a slight bit of tax. Now with little notice coming off a new CBA, they are stuck with large contracts which would be hard even for them to justify to fans just throwing away a supposedly contending "core." Otherwise you've had Gar/Pax preside over a huge profit taking non-fan rewarding money making machine for years.

    If not for the luck out of Derrick Rose and hiring of Thibs(who in my opinion was an obvious hire and someone Gar/Pax probably thought they could to a an extent control), and his brilliant defensive apparatus, this team would be what Gar/Pax created, a middling, cheap, non fan friendly undynamic franchise that for a major market was the laughingstock of the league.

    Honestly, I like Pax from his playing days, but I have a lot of questions about his emotional stability to be a chief executive. As for Forman, I simply think he's a secretive, fan unfriendly figure who is not well suited for a franchise that puts fans first in informing them and putting out a superior product when the conditions exist for it. And also will go the extra mile to make those conditions arise on a semi regular basis.

    So where do we go from here? If it's true that Ron Adams was a Derrick Rose favorite and he was axed while also being a Thibs in essence partner for years, then that's not good. Plus, you have the Bulls in Gar outing Derrick to the public about the doctor's clearance instead of just saying, "Look, we're shutting him down." Then if Rose does come back it's a win/win. Yeah, Gar you really have managed to to seriously alienate and damage the lives of your MVP star player and your league wide respected head coach. Nice!

    "Ladies and gentlemen your national pariah Chicago Bulls"

  • Anyone else have a feeling that the Celtics or Lakers may end up dangling 1st rounders for the opportunity to hire Thibs away from the Bulls?

    "....and your coach, BRIAN SCALABRINE"

    Ugh!

  • Ya All

    I don't know the "Inside Personalities" of our front office..,but I do know the following by watching ALL the Bulls games this year.

    !------Rose didn't play.

    2----Asik was GONE.

    3---Taj took a step Back----not Forward(and I wonder not if...,but how much that Bloated new contract figured in)

    We are gonna be a different team for the 3rd year in a row------time will tell if different means better or worse.

  • Side note: I realize Jo as a winning presence you don't want to lose, but injuries and low playoff shooting percentages have to factor in. The fact that a scoring PF like LaMarcus Aldridge still in his prime says specifically he'd like to join the Bulls I think it's short sighted and disappointing their hasn't been more conversation about this.

    If the Bulls had the rep of a legit trading partner then maybe something could get done. You whittle them down to Noah, Charlotte pick, and Mirotic for Aldridge and a future first rounder. I know Bulls fans largely will think this is an unthinkable trade, but if they are going for it now I'd strongly consider it. There's nothing that says the Bulls don't blow that top 5 lotto pick. And I'm not at all convinced Mirotic will be a star whenever the decade occurs where he decides to come over. Of course you should have drafted Gorgui Dieng if you were going to make this happen. Not Tony Smell(s bad as in likely stinks as a player). And we know a condescending weasel in Gar Gar could never pull this off anyway.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Their isn't much conversation on the Aldridge trade because dumb and dumber couldn't pull that trade off if they wanted to. Besides might be tough for Gar to have to admit what a failure trading him away was in the first place. Gar is the one who pushed for Tyrus. For that he got a promotion somehow...

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    No it is not unthinkable, it is assinine. Despite being an allstar, Aldridge is a complimentary, not a primary player, playing 2nd fiddle at best, and maybe 3rd on a championship team. He is certainly not at the level of a Scottie Pippen, so giving up 3 first round picks for him would be unwise to say the least.

    Portland hasn't exactly been tearing up the league with Alrdridge.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    I would consider that trade, too, but it cold come back to bite the Bulls hard! If Mirotic turns out to be dynamite and the Charlotte pick is a top 5, that might get Gar/Pax canned!

  • The reason this should be a story is because of the history of the Gar Formen and John Paxson front office. They have had several blurps of how their egos have been damaged and they have over reacted. These guys are straight up pathetic.

    Look how they treat their coaches in the past. Petty firing of Skiles on Christmas day. Chocking Vinny. Top players brother questions letting Asik walk for nothing so they force Rose to put out a statement saying he agrees with everything they are doing. Straight up petty childish behavior. Outside of drafting they are basically terrible GMs. Their big money FA suck hello Ben Wallace. They consistently overpay/overrate their low skill defensive grinder types.

    I use to call them the Loul Deng's of the GM world. But frankly that is an insult to Lou as he is actually a good team first guy. These guys are me first egomaniacs without much skill to back it up. We can do so much better than John Paxson or Gar Forman.

  • GarPax are corporate YesMen playing office politics and doing the bidding of their corporate master. (though the Bulls are actually a limited partnership, but I digress...)

    A week ago I asked the question: Would any top-level GM willingly work for Rein$dorf? I seriously doubt it, not a GM who lives to win and compete for championships. And notice Rein$dorf has never courted such an executive! Instead we have:
    Jerry Krause
    John Paxson
    Gar Forman

    Yes Krause was a complete YesMan, though he made some great moves to build a championship team around the inherited Jordan. But fans must understand Rein$dorf has changed since he won a few championships and built the United Center complete with MJ Statue. At that point he won the financial game - permanently! It is finance not basketball that is Rein$dorf's reason for living.

  • I don't remember if I mentioned this yesterday or not, but the Bulls are not allowed to receive a player in a sign and trade transaction because they used the MMLE, a new little tidbit for this CBA '13-'14. The only way this would be possible is if the Bulls amnestied Booz, gave Dunleavy his 3 mil and called it the MLE, even then they would be hard capped at the tax apron like they were last year. None of this is probable and the Bulls have not been linked to anyone that would require a S&T in order to come here. Also important to note that we can still participate in a S&T, we just can't be the team that receives the actual player who was signed and traded.

  • I just don't get why bulls fans get all chicken little every time a move is made. People cried when they drafted taj/butler instead of (insert name of crappy player who hasnt done anything since being drafted). Why do people get so worked up over one dimensional role players like brewer, korver, and CJ who made up the back end of our rotation? Who cares who the assistant coaches are? I knew Ron Adams name but if you told me he was with another team last year I would have believed you.

    This team has done nothing but win since thibs got here. Not just a winning record but literally the best on the league 2 of the last 3 years. No titles but that doesn't mean they are terrible. By my calculations only one team wins the title every year, every other team in the league isn't terrible.

    The truth is fans of the vast majority of teams would kill for the success we have had recently. Sit back and enjoy it instead of picking apart very little move. It isn't that important. Our team will go as far as our top 5 or 6 players take us. They are all still here and nobody is so old they are going to fall off a cliff anytime soon. You guys are ridiculous.

  • In reply to senrad:

    Agree 100%

  • In reply to senrad:

    Fans like you remind me of GarPax with what you're saying..."at least we're competitve and we win games", that's not enough sir with the history that the Bulls have. The Bulls over the past twenty years won championships and a lot of us Bulls fans remember those days and want the Bulls to get back to that. This Bulls organization today need to provethey can win a cchampionship without Michael Jordan. Its been 15 years since the Bulls have been to the finals and its time for the Bull to get back to the finals...not just win regular season games as you're putting it.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    AGREED +100%

  • I think as far as Thibs overplaying the players he's doing it on purpose to send a message to Gar/Pax and Foreman and I don't blame him one bit. Sometimes you have to put your foot down and stand your ground even if other people get hurt in the process. All they give him is scraps to work with, guys that can't contribute or are only good for garbage time minutes. So he's just working with what they give him.

    Also I think Thibs is pissed with all the player shuffling going on. Over the past few seasons we've given up some really good players for nothing. This is nothing new in fact the Bulls do this every year only now we have a real coach again that'll speak his mind.

    Honestly i'm getting sick of the Bulls and all this cheap crap. I'm tired of all the dumb decisions management makes with contracts, etc. It's getting to the point of total disgust. I know if the fans feel it then the players and the coach have to be feeling it too.

  • In reply to ajaychitown:

    That's why I say I honestly don't look for Thibs and Rose to be in Chicago after their contracts are up if things don't change. I can see the Bulls owner and management putting together a case now for the future as to why they let Thibs leave or fire him alltogether. TThey're excuse will be that they value their players health and Thibs wasn't putting a lot of effort into that fact, which would be a absolutely stupid reason to let Thibs go. The writing is on the wall for Thibs as far as I can see. The Bulls FO has a lot of player, personel and public relation problems to me which will be a huge problem for the Bulls organization moving forward.

  • In reply to ajaychitown:

    In 2009 in Boston, Thibs lobbied for grinding the Celtics veteran players down the stretch to improve playoff seeding. So this is not Thibs sending a message to Bulls. It's Thibs being stubborn and not learning from mistakes.

    By the way, in 2009 Doc Rivers disagreed with Thibs and rested the Celtic veterans instead and went to game 7 of the Finals as a result.

    Will Thibs ever learn?

  • On Adams: We don't really know what was said. If I was constantly telling my boss he was doing a really shitty job then I'd expect to get fired too. I don't really get why people are reflexively taking Adams' side on this. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't, but I'm not going to say he's hard done by without knowing all the facts.

    On Thibs: I care about this as much as whether Jennifer Aniston will get Brad Pitt back from J-Lo, and consider the story to be a similar level of crass rumour-mongering. Despite this alleged horrible relationship they resigned Thibs, Thibs agreed to resign, and he still seems to be coaching to the best of his ability. So where's the story? I don't care who Thibs does or doesn't send Christmas cards to.

    On Rose: He can think what he likes, he hitched himself to this train by not structuring his contract with an opt-out. He's under contract for 4 more seasons. Even if the worst rumours are true and he is horribly unhappy, he's stuck on the team for at least 3 years unless he wants to really trash his reputation and Vince Carter his way out of town. Winning cures all, and if they can't win with Rose age 25-28 it's probably best to blow it up by getting value for him before he hits the heavy decline part of his career.

  • Appears LaMarcus Aldridge's agent (same agent as Rose) wants to push a trade to Chicago Bulls. Bulls are saying no.

  • In reply to Edward:

    My view of the Aldridge trade talk is that it all depends on how the Bulls view Mirotic. It may be right or it may be wrong, but if they think he is a star then they will not want to give up Noah for Aldridge. Maybe they are passing on a chance to get a really good player, but if they believe Mirotic is the next Dirk then they will stay the course.

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    I think that's pretty accurate.
    Plus one major problem with Bulls roster is too many 8-figure contracts (4), and now Gibson is also overpaid at $8 million. Only if this trade was Boozer for Aldridge would this work for Bulls, and then only by allowing Deng to walk next year and Butler extending for a reasonable contract.

    Portland is demanding too much in trade for LMA, they will learn the hard way at end of next season when LMA has only 1-year remaining that they will lose an asset for nothing.

  • In reply to Edward:

    yes overpaying some role players like Gibson is one of the areas of concern for the front office. Another thing is this stupid practice of not giving contracts a player's option. If Boozer had a player's option at the end of this year, he probably opts out to secure more years while still relatively not too old. Just imagine Boozer and Deng in contract year, they will be balling their asses off while giving the Bulls options next offseason in free agency.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    I really can't see Boozer opting out of his contract even if he had an option. He'll be nearly 33 by next free agency, where's he going to get an offer that makes up for the fact he'd be giving up 16.8 million?

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    funny, but I don't recall that many people claiming that Taj was overpaid when we signed him last year, maybe me and Edward. In fact, I said at the time that Taj was a hair above the full MLE player, and 4 years @ $30 million was already overpaying but the absolute max that I would offer him.

  • In reply to Edward:

    In my opinion the only Noah for Aldridge deal that is fair for the Bulls is straight up. Aldridge is a nice player, but he ain't all that. Noah is just a good at what he does, if not better than Aldridge is at what he does. and there is a reason that Portland fans aren't that thrilled about keeping him around, kind of like Utah fans were about Boozer, not quite as bad but in that vein.

  • In reply to Edward:

    The bulls are saying no because the blazers want Noah jimmy and our picks...I wouldn't do that trade either. Especially if a guy is pushing to come here. The bulls could be playing a waiting game to see if blazers bring down price. No teams is gonna give up all there assets if blazers go into the season wit LA and he tnen has year left on his deal. Bulls could look into 3 team trade too. Probably have to wait for d12 to sign first.

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    Agreed
    Boozer and Aldridge salaries are less than a million apart with Boozer paid slightly more. So I would tell Aldridge's agent we'll trade PF for PF (Boozer), not our center Noah, so go sell it to Portland if you want your client in Chicago.

    Later in negotiations I could see sweetening with a draft pick - a 2nd round pick. (and never the Charlotte pick). When a player wants to leave he immediately loses value, also in the last year of a contract he loses value.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Lets face it, it would be one of the worst trades in NBA history if they gave us Aldridge for the BozoHole. They are never doing that deal, especially as a team that is notorious for not just having to win the deal, but to kill the deal. It is really a waste of time to even bring that up as a possibility, leverage or no leverage.

  • Somebody stated that the Bulls couldn't sign and trade for a player because they used the MMLE. So a guy like Aldridge would only have his year and next under contract. We also didn't draft Gorgui Dieng the highly touted defensive center as a possible replacement for Noah so there's no way we can now get Aldridge even though he's a stud scorer at PF still in his prime. Tough when a potent offensive player finally wants to come to the Bulls, and there's no chance due to previous moves by the F.O.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    True about Dieng, and then there's Asik......

    But what do Bulls do with both Boozer and Aldridge at PF? That's $62.5 million for the next 2 years + $15.5 million for Gibson = $78 million at PF for the next two seasons, and Mirotic probably coming to Bulls in 2014. That's a total logjam at PF. Please don't say amnesty Boozer because Ren$dorf won't pay Boozer $31 million to not play.

    Bulls need to tell Aldridge's agent its Boozer, not Noah if he wants to get his client to Chicago. PF for PF, not PF for C.

    Aldridge isn't eligible for a contract extension until next off-season, 2014. But 2 years remaining is the time to trade a player! Like last year was the time to trade Deng. No team in this Tax Era wants 1-year rentals. Look at Lakers about to lose Dwight Howard for nothing. Atlanta tried to shop Josh Smith last year and found no takers cause he only had 1-year left on his contract before unrestricted free agency.

    This is an interesting situation of a very good player wanting to come to Bulls. When has that happened before?

  • In reply to Edward:

    What I meant to conclude is Portland is in a precarious situation. If they don't trade Aldridge this season they will be STUCK next season, like the Bulls are now with Deng. Next season Aldridge will have no value for Portland as he will be an unrestricted free agent in 1 year.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Uh, that's what they invented amnesty for.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    If Dwight Howard goes to Houston, Asik is available. Is a 3-team deal possible? But then maybe Aldridge would want to go to Houston instead of Chicago.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Houston wants josh smith if they sign Howard. I think they are childhood friends.

  • Good points. IMO Aldridge = Noah period in Trailblazers thinking. There's no way they would take Boozer or anybody else. Latest is they want Joakim and Jimmy Butler. I realize a majority of Bulls fans wouldn't want to do a deal like that or even part with Noah period. So be it. Butler is a great kid and a good player but how many times do we see a young Taj for example and then go overboard valuing him when really neither are known as scorers coming out of college.

    We know Gar and Pax refuse to give up real assets in trade anyway and on top of that Portland is known as an organization that prides itself on besting whoever they deal with. It all adds up to no deal.

    There's probably a majority of Bulls fans that wouldn't part with Joakim anyway. Then we are stuck with Boozer, Taj, and Mirotic likely as there's no way the Bulls will trade him or the vaunted Charlotte pick. The Bulls now have no center to replace Noah showing they have no intention of trading him anyway.

    It's the same old story. People bemoan the fact that we have no offensive studs, but when it comes to parting with assets no one wants to pull the trigger. That's why the Bulls offense has been awful to watch except for the team passing and unselfish play which is nice, but not the same as seeing star scorers go off and excel. That's what the NBA after all is all about. That is the fun, and the Bulls(other then the Rose luckout) have been mostly fun-less if you will for the entire post Jordan era. Maybe you take B.G.'s best couple of years and say that was an offensive dynamite player. Otherwise, nil. Thus it will continue as conservatism reins.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Ok so are you saying bulls should give up Noah, butler and picks? Lets say bulls pull the trigger on that trade. To me they are worse off. Rose, hinrich?, Deng, Aldridge, boozer as starting lineup?? Hinrich is better coming offmthe bench and less likely to be injured. You put him as starting sg he is guaranteed to miss half the year. We don't know how rose knee is either.

    I say no play waiting game with blazers. If blazers threaten to trade Aldridge somewhere that he doesn't play it's a sure bet his agent will leak that he won't sign an extension unless its with a team he wants to play for. It worked for Melo it work for Howard. Teams where scared to trade for them because high chance they would walk.

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    I Agree.
    They can ask all they want, but Blazers ARE NOT in the driver's seat with Aldridge. He wants out, if they don't trade him this season they lose all value as Aldridge becomes a 1-year rental becoming an unrestricted free agent. Tough luck for Portland.

    And again, this must be addressed - you can't add Aldridge at PF with both Boozer and Taj on big contracts, and Mirotic PF coming in 1 more year. At least one of these PFs must come off the books in any Aldridge trade. Bulls are in the drivers seat and should act like it.

    Bulls have one Center and 3 PFs (counting Mirotic). You don't trade your lone center to add yet another PF. It's up to Aldrige's agent to get creative and sell Portland on something besides Noah.

  • OK while killing time on a holiday where I have to work shortly, I was responding to the poster Edward who made some good points. Now I have buzzkill and Edward both ignoring what I said in their rejection of my proposed move. Really?

    I said the Bulls CANT make a deal involving Noah because they blew their opportunity to get a replacement in highly touted defensive center Gorgui Dieng. If they had drafted Dieng, then yes I'd trade Noah and Butler for Aldridge.

    Nobody is going to play the "waiting game" or be in the "driver's seat." Gar/Pax are not adept traders and they would never trade Noah anyway as I already stated. Aldridge maybe when he's beyond his prime then he'll come play for the Bulls. Right now though in his prime as a stud scorer, as their history has proven, not a chance.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Lol you are funny. Someone may have had one too many grownup drinks!!! You and your name calling is hillarious. I guess we will see what happens with Aldridge. Go bulls! Lol

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Look, I wanted Dieng, so this isn't a knock on him. But Dieng is not a Noah replacement. You can't replace an all-star center with the 21st pick in a weak draft. If the Bulls drafted Dieng I was hoping he was good enough to give Noah a little rest, not take a starting role.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Hey RoadWarrior,
    I did not ignore your post at all. My very first sentence was:
    True about Dieng, and then there's Asik......

    I also addressed your comment about sign-and-trade.

    But ultimately, complaining about Deng and Asik is as ineffective as my complaining about the blown 2nd round of the 2007 draft when Bulls neglected to trade up from both 49 and 51 to secure Marc Gasol whom Lakers drafted at 48 and leveraged into 3 consecutive trips to the Finals and 2 rings. But I digress... We'll always have those fond memories of Aaron Gray and JamesOn Curry.

    RoadWarrior, have you addressed my comments about the logjam at PF which would be exacerbated by a Noah for Aldridge trade? Bulls would have $39 million annual salary at PF with Aldridge, Boozer, Gibson. That would be true even if Bulls had drafted Dieng.

    I think we can all agree that deal making is as low on GarPax's set of skills as minutes management is for Thibs. LOL Their only true deal was one they were forced to make, the Eddy Curry trade. Think about that for a minute, the best trade of their combined careers is one they didn't want to make but were forced into, by the Curry heart situation! And if they hadn't later screwed up their best trade with Tyrus Thomas (just amnestied) we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Aldridge...
    It boggles the mind...

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Why does everybody on this site act like they are Portland fans.

    How is Noah straight up for Alrdridge not enough. We don't have to throw in Bulter, Mirotic or the Charlotte pick. Noah as an allstar center is a higher commodity than Aldridge as an allstar power forward. For god's sake we are not talking about Dirk Nowitski or Karl Malone or Charles Barkley. Aldridge is a step above being the Luol Deng of power forwards.

    The only people worse than GarPax when it comes to making trades are virtually everybody who proposes trades on this site.

    If we listened to you guys we would be the old Clippers for the next 2 decades.

    and the only way that you make that Noah trade with confidence is if you still have Asik, or you reacquire him(for Deng) after Houston signs Howard(hope springs).

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Excellent point about the difference in value of a center over a power forward. And then there's Asik.... I could see a frontline of Asik, Aldridge, Gibson off the bench.

    But the conundrum becomes having $39 million annual salary at PF with Boozer, Aldridge, Gibson. Rein$dorf won't amnesty Boozer and pay him $31 million to not play for two years.

    This deal has little chance of happening. Bulls won't get Asik back, they don't want his $15 million balloon. And if Houston gets Howard they may want to trade Asik into cap space for a draft pick.

  • Well, the Bulls won't be bringing Bellinelli back since he just signed with San Antonio. I won't be surprised if Nate signs with another team as well pretty soon. So our changes to last year's team are hopefully a completely healthy Rose, then a rookie 2guard/wing in Snell, and Dunleavy. While we lose Nate, Marco, and Rip and Cook. Any more plans from the front office? With Noah and Taj's feet problems, I can't see how they are solely relying on Nazr, but that looks like the plan unless they feel comfortable with Malcolm Thomas and Eric. Murphy to solidify the bigs on the roster.

  • Still a chance nate comes back. I don't think he will get a big deal like he expects. Not from a contender anyway. I would be surprised.

  • Interesting that he signed with the Spurs. When the Bulls signed him last season, I said that I thought that it was a good signing because he seemed like a San Antonio Spurs kind of player. Which I meant as a complement to the type of player that he seemed like despite never playing for good teams.

    Also, interesting that he signed for 2 years at a total of only $5.6 million, quite a bit less than the MMLE. So either the Bulls didn't want him back, or they wanted Dunleavy more and they were willing to pay a higher price.

    It will be interesting to see if Dunleavy turns out to be the better player, Dunleavy is a better shooter, but is he a better scorer, especially in crunch time. Who is the better fit with Rose?

  • Honestly, the management makes it very difficult to be a fan of the Bulls. I mean look around the league at the moves being made and the teams like the Bulls (Clippers, Spurs, Golden State, maybe Minnesota) and teams trying to get younger and better (Kings, Pelicans, Sixers). It just sucks feeling like this team is in neutral. Win enough games not to piss anyone off so that the money still flows in.

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