Bulls claim summer league tournament 2nd seed

The NBA continues to innovate their summer league product with a tournament of all summer league teams. The Bulls claimed the second seed by going 3-0 throughout the first week of Vegas.

Marquis Teague looks like he's really improved his game. He's one of the few players who's really running a team in summer league. His passing has been much improved and after a poor opener in terms of shooting, Teague shot 13/26 with 15 free throw attempts over the past two games. Teague's also averaged six assists a game over summer league which is a nice tally.

All in all, Teague looks explosive going to the rim, and he looks like he's improved considerably in terms of doing something positive once he's there. Probably not worth getting too excited, but Teague has now shown some pretty strong flashes of ability. He was awfully young when the Bulls drafted him, but he has a pretty high ceiling due to his athleticism if he can continue to develop. It wouldn't surprise me if Teague takes over the back up PG role full time in two seasons and the Bulls only pursue a 3rd PG as an emergency / vet min guy.

Tony Snell put it in a rather pedestrian performance over summer league so far. At times he looked like he could shoot, defend, and pass. He pulled down 11 boards over the past two games, averaging 5.5 a game which is awfully nice for a guy who had a knock of poor rebounder against him. That said, Snell also looked passive frequently which was one of the knocks on him as well. Snell didn't do anything to really excite, but he didn't do anything to disappoint either.

After a "not an NBA player" start, Erik Murphy recovered to hit 11/16 and 6/8 from beyond the arc over the next two games. He still looks like he'll have issues fouling, but he's supposed to be a shooter, and he showed that he can shoot.

I hope the Bulls can bring Andrew Goudelock to camp. They probably need a big man more than Goudelock, but with Nate Robinson clearly leaving, the Bulls could use a guy who can fill up the scoreboard with points while creating their own shot even if they're inconsistent. They don't really have any shot creators [even pedestrian to bad ones] outside of Derrick Rose, and Goudelock can do that.

He had two monster games vs one poor one which is good enough for me to say he deserves a shot to take the roster spot from Malcolm Thomas or whomever else the Bulls might consider at the minimum. It's also possible (though unlikely IMO) that the Bulls could keep 14 guys on the roster. That said, Goudelock is probably better off hitting someone else's camp that has more room on their roster to add them.

In terms of summer league, I think the tournament is a nice idea. I like the thought of the teams having a mini championship to play for even if it's completely meaningless. It will be interesting to see how many teams take it somewhat seriously or whether they use the extra games to play their scrubbier players.

Totally meaningless like the rest of summer league, but I'm still excited to see how the Bulls do.

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  • I want Andrew Goudelock invited to camp as well. The guy can create and shoot. We need both. He can score, a lot. He had 20 pts in a Lakers playoff game!

    That being said, we have a lot of guards, our need is another big man. Thomas has played very well in the summer league. Defending the basket, changing and blocking shots! He had 22 boards in one game!

  • In reply to truebluefan:

    I'm not that excited about Thomas, but I agree that he's been solid in summer league.

  • Bulls fans should be very pleased with how summerleague is going with the young Bulls. Teague looks totally different from last year, he's more aggressive and is hitting jumpers and finishing around the rim much better. He's had a few turnovers the last few games but he looks like he'll be a solid backup to Rose and later on a valuable trade asset. Tony Snell has shown great versatility, he can shoot, drive, playmake and definitely has good Defense. He's a "system's guy" like Deng but unlike Deng he has pretty good handles. He sees himself as a shooting guard and I agree, I think Jimmy B would be the better small forward despite his smaller wingspan. Erik Murphy looked awful the first game with the basketball bouncing off his head when he attempted a rebound and he still struggles to board up but he can definitely shoot it and he does give effort on defense. In fact the Bulls were pulling away against Portland before he went down because he spaces the floor and makes the offense flow better. If he can put in the work, he could be a solid stretch 4. I definitely think he can be elite in the pick and pop 3pt shot game with Rose and Teague. So the 3 young players looked really good and they definitely bring talents the Bulls have lacked the last several years in 3pt shooting, athleticism and ball handling.

  • We have five PF's and one center that is a lot of bigs. Would be nice to add a legit 7 footer to the team but I think leaving the Nate Rob/JL3 role unfilled would be a huge mistake. How many games did those two single handedly win the past two seasons? Wouldn't have made it out of the first round without Nate. JL3 single handedly took over and beasted LeBron and the Heat in one of my all time favorite regular season games.

    Not adding a guy like Goudelock that has no fear and can get his own shot would be a massive mistake and could end up easily costing us 4-5 wins maybe more. What vet min Center could have that level impact? That is easily what the microwave role has meant to this team the past few years. You can't ignore the truth and whether you love or hate JL3 and Nate Rob you know the impact they had was massive compared to their salaries.

  • In reply to Chad:

    I agree that the Bulls need another creator more so than they need a sixth big, the question of course would be whether Goudelock is really good enough to fill that role in a meaningful way and whether or not the Bulls would play him anyway.

  • In reply to Chad:

    I'd say they single handedly won at least a half dozen games more than the BozoHole did and cost us another dozen less than the BozoHole did, at about one 15th the cost.

  • Doug, I think you're downplaying Snell. He reminds me a lot of his high school teammate and buddy, Kawhi Leonard. Quick, incredibly long, decent handle, smart and good 3-point shooter. In fact, he's a better 3-point shooter. Of course, he can't rebound like Kawhi, nor is he as strong ... but he's a comer, most definitely. I was down on this pick until I saw this kid play ... and read the comments from his college coach, "Tony was an incredible teammate. He was phenomenal to coach."

    Murphy can shoot it, but the team will need Malcolm Thomas more, IMO. Murphy would get roasted on D.

    But must sign Goudelock! Like Doug said, we need another shot-creator beside D Rose. That becomes essential in the playoffs, when the D tightens up. Bellini and Nate were key then ... and we're losing both.

  • In reply to Curious E:

    We'll see what Snell does. Just know that every college coach has a job to stump for their guys to help them with recruiting. You'd have to be god awful for a coach to not stump for you and talk well about you after the fact.

    As for Snell overall, we'll see. His skillset sounds good, the question will be whether he executes it well enough.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    While I like Snell's skillset, the passiveness is a major scare factor. I've never liked guys that won"t/can't kill for it.

    Bill Parcels always had a great line about this which I can't remember exactly, but it was something along the lines that if they are pit bulls when they were puppies they will be pit bulls when they grow up, and vice versa.

    I don't think that you can change the nature of a person or player. We can only hope that being around the Bulls culture and maybe working with Butler will bring out something in Snell that is already there.

    The only question that I have is didn't Butler appear kind of passive his first year also, so maybe there is hope for Snell.

  • Goudlock would probably be better signing for someone else because in my opinion, on this Bulls team he'll be a strong candidate to not even dress up for games until Hinrich goes down. If he signs for the Bulls I think it's going to be a battle between him and Murphy for that 12th roster spot and hearing how much Thibs raves about how great having a stretch 4 is and how Murphy is making that whole summer league unit go, he might prefer having him as his 12th man rather than Goudlock.

    I really like what I've seen out of Snell so far. His shot hasn't been falling but he just looks like a really solid future NBA player. He makes smart decisions on both ends of the floor, moves the ball quite well (the offense doesn't stop when he gets the ball, unlike with Goudlock and McLemore with the Kings for instance), he has a nice feel for the game and recognizes that when his shot isn't on he needs to either attack the basket or move the ball towards the guys who are hitting their shots (Murphy, Goudlock and Teague). Overall, while his numbers aren't all that impressive, he passes the eye test with flying colors, for me at least.

  • In reply to FibGld05:

    You know, I'm not not enamored with Murphy even though he has shot well. His game is a complete liability other than shooting. Unless we need him, which I really don't see given how bad he looks (outside of hitting shots), we should just send him down to the D league to play. Thibs hardly plays rookies ever and I can hardly see him playing this guy.

    I do like Snell, but it's too early to tell how good he will be. I was not loving Butler until I watched him fill in as a late scratch for Deng in Boston around Jan or Feb. I live in Boston and was telling the guys I was going to the game with how the C's will probably win since the Bulls would not have Deng - and I think Noah as on the shelf, too.

    Butler turned out to play a really solid game and the guys I went with were all impressed with is game and thought I was nuts for not being high on his game. Belineli hit the game winner, in OT, I think.

    Butler could not play summer league due to the lockout after being drafted. So, he looked pretty bad his rookie year. I was impressed with his D against Melo one game I remember, but that's about it. I never would have predicted that he would play so well late last season!

    Snell could be similar, but who knows. He is in a good situation so we'll see.

  • In reply to FibGld05:

    Snell definitely made good decisions, but he's also fairly passive. He was in college and was in summer league. He can be a nice role player, but the Bulls need a non-passive player as well.

  • I like how Teague has been looking in Summer League. It looks as if he has vastly improved his game from last year when he played in here. I think tonight will better show how much he really has improved going up against a team who's been playing some pretty good D and putting pressure on the ball like Miami is. I'm interested to see him go against Myck Kabongo. He's a young PG prospect that plays with a lot of energy (Especially on the defensive end). I think a team that signs him will be getting a pretty solid defender for years to come. I look at him as an Avery Bradley type player (not as good of a defender of course, but better ball handler). I'm also interested to see if Teague is going to keep shooting well from distance as well. Right now he's shooting 100% from distance which is impossible to maintain but I just hope it's not a complete fluke

  • I agree with those of you who would like to see Goudelock on the Bulls to fill the Nate/JL3 role. In fact, I agree so much that if we need to clear some space for him so that we can add another big, I'm all for trading Teague now while his value is higher. I attended UK in the mid 90's and watched just about every UK game he played two years ago, when he led them to the title. I just don't like his game. He has made some shots, but his form is slow and inconsistent. Look, if Jason Kidd can become a good shooter, anyone can. But, it took Kidd probably 10 years.

    Teague is fast, but plays slow. Just watch him - he plays indecisively and he's unsure of himself. He is unsure when to shoot and when to pass. He can be sloppy with the ball. He is not a good finisher at the rim. He will not sniff 30% from 3 (assuming he ever takes at least 75 shots in a season from there) under his rookie contract and you can take that bet to the house.

    So why would any other team want him? His contract is amazing and he won't be 21 until after the AS break next year. He was a top player coming out of HS and won a Nat'l Championship at Kentucky and his brother just got paid. So, he has a strong pedigree. I think he could pan out in time, but I really think keeping a guy like Goudelock helps us more. It may enable us to keep a guy like Malcome Thomas, or another legit 7 foot big because Noah will roll an ankle or get plantar faciitis at some point next season.

    And, Goudelock has two guys ahead of him in Rose and Hinrich who get injured a lot. Look at JL3 and Nate and Belineli... they improved their value tremendously in the same role.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Bottom line: 1) Knowing you can also play Butler/Snell at the 2, I'd want Goudelock in that mix also - not Teague. Relying on Teague (and Snell, for that matter, is a leap of faith) 2) We need someone else to back up Noah besides Nazr, who may be ok as long as Noah is healthy, which he won't be all the time. 3) If we can flip Teague for a first next year, or even in 2015 or 2016, I'd have to consider if I'm the Bulls - especially if it's to a team that may not be so good.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Of course, Goudelock can play the 1, too, so, like Hinrich, his flexibility is valuable.

  • In reply to Granby:

    I'd love to see that Bulls use more than just he 13 minimum roster spots, but if push comes to shove I too would rather see a legitimate 7 footer to back up Noah on the roster.

    However, now that Dalembert has signed with Dallas, not sure who or what is really left. I was hoping that Elton Brand would be our back up of last resort, even though he is nowhere near a legit 7 footer, but he surprisingly went to Atlanta, must be the money.

    Not a big fan of keeping Malcom Thomas, and I'd have to actually watch Murphy for a few games before I comment on his deserving a roster spot, but right now, I'd have to give the 13th spot to Goudelock before Murphy, but then we would have to use the 14th spot on a bigman.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Don't think Teague played slow at all in summer league. He's been very aggressive and played quickly. IMO.

  • Marquis Teague. No.5 ranked player in America in his class by Rivals.com. Gold medal winner FIBA U-17 World Championships, McDonalds All-American. And for what it's worth, brother Jeff the starting PG for the Atlanta Hawks.

    The tendency is for people(including myself) to overestimate the upside as in performances of prospects and summer league newcomers and downplay the potential of known, boring entities.

    Marquis, if he can improve his shooting, no doubt could be a starting PG in the NBA. Obviously that is a huge IF, but in summer league if he continues hitting threes and a high rate of volume free throws that's a good sign. Though his finishing at the rim could be better as he still misses open lane lay ups and short bankers. With his 6'7 wingspan(for a 6'2 guy in shoes) you'd think he'd start dunking the ball once in a while anyway. 40" verttical, outstanding athleticism and speed and all. Come on man.

    If Teague continues to struggle shooting the ball then I understand Kirk(and his millions) getting PT over Marquis. However, if Teague continues to show that his shooting is improved then I have a real problem not utilizing a young talent like Marquis over an injury prone has seen better days vet in Kirk.

    Yes Kirk can play at SG, but so can Derrick. Rose has guarded guys like Wade well at times. I'd rather have a standout competitor and highly regarded young physical talent in Teague on the court then a so-so player in Kirk. Again, it all hinges on whether Marquis can hit some shots and is becoming a decent shooter.

    We can talk about Andrew Goudelock all day, but odds are he is at best a 8-10ppg sparkplug who maybe gets hot in a playoff series if he's that type of guy, and gives you a couple of 20 point games. Now while that actually is great and I hope that's what he is especially at his pay rate, it is not a player who could fundamentally alter a team's makeup as a major rotation piece or a starting caliber player.

    Of course after saying all this it's just as possible Teague goes back to his klanking ways, but at 19 and showing some signs here in summer league play that he could be a quality offensive and overall piece for an NBA team preferably the one he's on right now.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Road Warrior - You pretty much summed it up about Teague. THE SMOKING GUN: Your point about his wingspan and vertical - why isn't he dunking???? He does not play like the athlete his is.

    Goudelock is 2-3 years older and played 4 years in college. Goudelock is a grinder. Goudelock is an excellent shooter, plays much smarter and can play both the 1 and 2. He can probably be locked up (if the Bulls would like) in a deal similar to Teague's rookie deal - probably less.

    Teague has always been frustrating, even at UK. If you continue to have high expecations for him given the reasons we have all laid out, you will be disappointed. Maybe I'm wrong... he's a good kid and he seems to be working hard. Maybe by the time he's 24 like Goudelock he will be more polished.

  • In reply to Granby:

    Maybe Teague will suck. On the other hand, maybe he won't. He's had one year of college and was very young for his age as a first year college player.

    I don't know what to expect from Teague overall in his career, but I wouldn't say to be sure he'll disappoint just yet.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Sure it can alter a teams season. The microwave role on the Bulls has easily added 5 wins each of the past two years. That is huge! Also 8-10 ppg on a minimum deal is quite the bargain. I think the impact of a ballsy shot creator is being seriously underestimated here. I am not saying Goudelock is a star or anything but we will use him more than most would think. No offense to Butler or Snell but they are basically defensive specialists and I would bet Goudelock would carve a decent role out for himself when Rose is not playing or when they need scorers.

    Kirk is dead weight this season. He is only a game manager and you can't manage a game without the ball. Rose will have the ball whether he is playing PG or SG. He can't shoot anymore or guard as well as either Butler or Snell so he is of little to no use at SG. Teague will likely even press him for minutes mopping up for Rose at point. I foresee a Rip type role for Kirk this season by the end he will be nearly completely phased out as yet another failed MLE signing.

  • In reply to Chad:

    The question is not whether the role is valuable, the question is whether Goudelock is good enough to add those 5 wins is another question.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    "The tendency is for people(including myself) to overestimate the upside as in performances of prospects and summer league newcomers and downplay the potential of known, boring entities."

    No truer statement has ever appeared on this site.

    That said, I was not high on the Teague pick as I am on the Snell pick, but the one skill that he(Teague) displayed even as a rookie was the ability to penetrate the lane and get to the rim. This is one of the most important, if not the most important skill that a pg can have in today's game. So I'd like to see what kind of "leap" that he can make in his second and third years.

    We basically need him(Teague) to make a Butler like jump in the next year so that we can let Hinrich walk after next season, or at least resign him(Hinnie) only for the minimum after we have filled out the rest of the roster.

  • I hope we keep both. Why not roll at least 14 deep so you have one big and one small to call up for injury. Keep Goudelock and Murphy in those roles. Than if you need another player you've got space to sign on the roster. Goudelock for a minimal contract is well worth it. Especially if we go far in the tournament. I actually would love our roster than and would feel deep enough to contend. We've done more with less. Can't wait to see the game tonight

  • In reply to FreeJoakim:

    Agree looking forward to see if Goudelock has some more prolific scoring outbursts. His floaters have been consistently effective which is big if he is to be more then a shooter. Personally though Erik Murphy's foul prone on the perimeter(and everywhere else) I still think he might be passable as a post big defender at 6'10. If so then his offense becomes possibly a legitimate asset.

  • In reply to FreeJoakim:

    Could happen, but I'm not sure the Bulls will spend the expense. Goudelock probably costs them around 5 million even at the minimum.

  • I agree. Assuming Teague is going to find a solid shooting stroke as in results is getting out over your skis a bit, but I like Marquis beyond improved shooting displayed in summer league. There's something in his demeanor, pedigree, and past performances that make me think he could come on and become a real player.

    Of course people will only believe it(better shooter) when they see it. I get it. I just hope based on the playoffs and a nice summer league, should it continue with solid shooting, that his high, high potential gets that chance early in the coming season from Thibs to see if he can hit shots and therefore open up his driving game, where then he becomes a real(good) player for the Bulls.

    Speaking of the summer league it may be relatively meaningless in many aspects, but if Goudelock has another scoring outburst or two with high efficiency shooting then you have to hope the Bulls find a way to sign him. I certainly don't think a Nate like sparkplug is meaningless at all. I will look forward to NBA pre-season to see if Andrew's scoring ways continue. preferably in a Chicago Bulls uni.

  • 1---We need a backup, younger, defensive minded, experienced center on the roster. No doubt, no question...,and we don't have that guy yet. It bothers me a bit..,but maybe Gar/Pax is waiting for someone to be released. Faith is really needed here.

    That said,

    If we can sign Goudelock at the minimum, do it and carry 14. I wouldn't sign if I was him..,but I'm lookin out for the Bulls. Carry 14 if you must.., but sign him---he is teriffic Value Insurance.


  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    Word is they are interested in Camby when he gets bought out. Does anyone know if Nazr is on a gauranteed contract?

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    I thought that we drafted Dieng for that role.

  • In reply to rakmessiah:

    Unfortunately, unless you're into Aldrich, Diop or Petro, that "younger.. experienced center" is not out there, at least among the remaining FA's. They may as well focus on Goudelock for all the reasons others have cited. While we can't offer the guaranteed others can , we can offer more meaningful minutes. I love D-Rose, but after watching him refuse to even try to play last year, and the number of games he sat out in '11-12 before the knee injury, and knowing that all it takes is someone blowing on Kirk to put him out, I put the over/under on games missed by Rose/Hinrich at 35+. And we're going to need someone to step up and provide some offense in those games. Coming through to help a contender win games should get him more attention than being a rotational player for a lower tier team.

  • well its going to be showtime tonight, the miami heat summerleague team is a high flying athletic bunch that play very good defense which cause high turnovers. This is a real good game to evaluate how Teague runs the team and if he can keep turnovers low and his decision making.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    Uhhh, thanks for the scouting report on the Miami Heat Summer League team. Especially since none of them have any chance to make the team.

  • According to hoopsworld lamarcus Aldridge reps met with blazers to discuss trade. They really want him in Chicago. Good thing going for bulls is that other teams around the league feel Portland price is too high for Aldridge. Seems like Aldridge is slowly and quietly trying to force his way out of Portland. I think bulls will land Aldridge. It's so under the radar right now. Seems like this is how bulls operate when it comes to trades. They try to remain low key to make things happen. Usually nothing happens. But I think bulls may just pull this one off.

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    I've got a feeling bullzfan is right. Maybe the Bulls will finally make a move. Deng plus a number one pick. We shall see...

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    Eh, 2 years left on his contract, Aldridge doesn't have that much leverage. I doubt this gets done, especially given that the Bulls really need to move Boozer to make the move work.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Yea, it seems like a deal would be much more likely next summer when the Bulls will be very actively restructuring their roster, and LA will become an expiring contract, and players and contracts will be flying all over the place.

    Of course, by next summer we might have to decide if we want to save our powder for the summer of 2015 and Kevin Love.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    The longer blazers hold on to Aldridge the more they are likely to get less in return in a trade. So he has some leverage in determining where he wants to go. He has leverage of saying will only sign long term with a team of his choice. With one of those teams being the bulls.

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    Absolutely correct that if Portland is going to trade Aldridge they must do so now with 2 years left on his contract. With one year remaining on contract (i.e. expiring) Josh Smith had no value, Luol Deng has no value (Bulls screwed up not trading Deng last year), and Aldridge will have no value one year from now as an expiring.

    The key for Bulls remains Boozer's contract. That is the elephant-in-the-room that must be dealt with in order to add Aldridge to the roster. Aldridge's agent is the one driving this deal behind the scenes - so a shout out to LMA's agent - if you want LMA in Chicago, Boozer must be out of Chicago!

  • It would be sweet if we could trade Deng and Boozer for Aldrige and Wes Matthews. Have Marquette wings and a legit 20ppg big man

  • So much for the second seed. Goudelock falls back to earth and the Heat beats our beloved Bulls again. I would also like to have Goudelock get an invite. I think everyone must be running and jumping on tired legs by now anyway. Have not watched anything but the highlights. That being said, he seems to have some instant offense in his game and the Bulls always seem to want at least one such player coming off their bench (Gordon, Pargo, Lucas III, Robinson). However, they will need to carry 14 to make that happen and I have a hard time believing they will pay double for a 14th body. Its a shame but that's the way it is.

    Would also love to get Alderidge but Doug is right that it makes no sense if you cant unload Boozer and who is taking on that contract? Rhetorical question :).

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