Bulls Beat #270 - March Rose's?

Bulls Beat #270 - March Rose's?

I discuss Derrick's return, the team's recent play, the future, and what a bad ass Joakim Noah is.

Bulls Beat #270 - March Rose's?

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Tags: bulls beat, chicago bulls, nba, podcast

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  • Wow Doug, so the Bulls aren't really going to be able to put together a championship team during the D Rose era and they'll pretty much have to depend on other championship contending teams to have a injury to one of their stars in order for the Bulls to get to the finals or win the finals? If that's the case, the City of Chicago can say goodbye to Rose when his contract is up if not before. So now everyone should understand why Reggie Rose made his comments, it wasn't the fact that the Bulls didn't make any moves at the trade deadline, Rose and his camp has been monitoring the moves that were made this past offseason and I'm sure they feel the same way some of us fans do and have questions to what the F__K the Bulls front office is doing in breaking up last years team. This has the Lebron situation in Cleveland written all over it and if the Bulls aren't going to be able to do anything to shake up this Bulls roster we should all look for D Rose starting to set up his exit strategy from the Bulls if he and hiz camp hasnt already started with Reggies comments and Rose not Returning yet in which i for one am in agreement with him not coming back this year. Imo it would serve this Bulls FO right for going the cheap route with this team. As i said before, someone needs to go from the Bulls FO cause from what im starting to noticr and it may not be true, D Rose wants to win a championship and if the Bulls as an organization can't get the job done, Rose if he doesn't come back this year may be doing what's best for his future with possibly another team. And yes I know the Bulls are paying him to play and play at a high level but like i said...if the Bulls are in no way able to put together a championship team in todays NBA, these all star players look to go elsewhere and Rose just may be heading down that unfaithful road...for the Bulls, another Lebron leaving home cause his hometown team didn't have the smarts or savvy to bring the hometown kid enough chances to compete for a championship.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    And if the Bulls aren't going to shake up this roster Rose has e ery right to start planning his exitfrom the Bulls so he doesn't have to go through what Lebron, Melo, and now Howard has gone through. If this is what has to happen then Rose has 2 to 2 in a half years left with the Bulls as much as i hate to think about it. But he deserves to be on a team that's serious about winning titles and if it's not the Bulls... Oh well. If tbe Bulls are serious then if they have to somewhat blow up the roster and build around Rose and Noah, that need to be done if not this offseason then definitely next cause there needs to be a direction that Rose can see this team going in. Bottom line is, the Bulls if they want to remain relevant better try and keep Rose happy and interested in playing for the city of Chicago cause again, once his contract is up and he'll still be young and right at his prime in his career can leave cause neither the Bulls or Rose will owe one another nothing.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I don't think it's a matter of the Bulls being serious about winning. It's a practical matter that going from top 5 to top 1 is an extraordinarily difficult feat that is frequently impossible.

    Most teams Derrick would go to will be in an even worse position. Until Miami breaks up, there's going to be almost nothing anyone can do, because there's no practical way to get that many stars in one place anymore.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I wouldn't say there's no other teams he could go to with that many stars cause I'm sure the Lakers would take him or even OKC would take him and have westbrook at sg where he should be anyway. Imagine a team with Durant, Westbrook, and Rose with lbaka in a few years cause im sure all three stars for OKC would take less money to make that happen or even Rose would take less money cause he wants to win a title. Bulls better get their B.S. together not unless they feel Rose is now not enoughto get this team to a title. If they feel he's damaged goods, trade him while his value is somewhat high coming off a significant knee injury and build around Noah and the Bulls good guy Deng.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    If the bulls did do something like trade Rose, it would just show how much of a loser the owner and this franchise really is and that they have no clue what it takes to build a championship team without Jordan.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    OKC just dumped Harden for salary relief, you think they could afford Rose? No.

    The Lakers would take him sure, but are they going to be in position with cap room and a great team around him the year he's a FA? Probably not.

    It's likely that most or all teams that could afford to sign a max player have significant holes bigger than what the Bulls have.

  • Sadly, I have to agree with your dour assessment of the Bulls prospects for improving the team. Maybe, the best move that we could have made was to keep Asik.

    However, your continued insistence that the Bulls should have paid $55-60 million over 2 years to reacquire Ben Gordon in order to obtain a protected #1 pick(that I bet you will not be a top 10 pick) is assinine if not assiten, assieleven & assitwelve.

    In a non luxury tax world, the move makes sense, but given the Bulls history what on earth makes you think that they would pay an extra $30 million plus to get a conditional #1 pick.

    That move only marignally makes sense for a team like Charlotte, going nowhere and needing to spend money just to get up to the minimum salary expenditure. and even they must be having second thoughts as Gordon has been his usual jackass self.

    Give it up, admit that you were wrong in a massively big way.

    I guess that Deng pulled a Rory McEllroy last night, he looked pathetic.

  • Some interesting comments from Bill Simmons at Grantland, which just happen to be in agreement with things that I've been saying for a while.

    13. Omer Asik (Rockets): 3 years, $25.1 million
    Let's face it: Chicago blew it by not matching Houston's poison-pill offer for Asik ($5 million this season, $5 million next season, $14.9 million in Year 3), then inking Taj Gibson to a four-year, $38 million extension (kicking in next season). Why not keep Asik and take care of Gibson next summer? Who was paying Gibson more than $38 million when his specific style fits Chicago better than any other team? This season he's playing 22.2 minutes, giving them his usual stellar defense and averaging 7.7 points and 5.4 boards. Um … another team was breaking the bank for Gibson during an era when everyone is TERRIFIED of the luxury tax? Didn't the Bulls out-think themselves?

    Why not …

    • Shell out $7.1 million in 2012-13 for Asik ($5 million) and Gibson ($2.1 million) instead of $4.9 million for Gibson and two lukewarm bodies (Nazr Mohammed and Vlad Radmanovic), then deal with Gibson's extension after the season?

    • Keep their options open with Asik and Gibson while seeing how Derrick Rose's post-ACL progress is coming?

    • Either bite the tax bullet and keep Asik AND Gibson (and amnesty Carlos Boozer after the season), or shop Asik before this season's trade deadline for future assets? Like Houston wouldn't have traded for him? Or the Lakers wouldn't have been intrigued by an "Asik/Deng/Charlotte's future no. 1 for Dwight Howard" offer?

    The bigger point: If you're a big-market contender, you can't lose an asset for absolutely nothing. Just sell the team at that point. Why even own it? You're gonna sweat out the luxury tax every year when you're in Chicago, the third-biggest TV market in America and a city that could absolutely support two professional basketball teams? And yes, Asik is an asset. We didn't need to see him thrive in Houston to realize that Omer Asik was good at basketball. Throw in his age (26) and I think Chicago blew this one. Try not to bring this up to Reggie Rose.

    Jared Dudley (Suns): 3 years, $12.75 million
    Every summer and every February, the Smart Teams (a.k.a. Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Oklahoma City) tried to fleece the bumbling Suns for Dudley, and after about the 47th time it happened, the bumbling Suns decided, "We must really have something here, the Smart Teams keep trying to trade for him!" So in a roundabout away, they're overrating him — even though having Dudley on a lottery team is like hiring Tommy Lee Jones to play the fifth lead in an Adam Sandler movie. Dudley is a character actor. He should be the seventh man on a contender giving them elite shooting/energy/chemistry/fist-bumping/towel-waving/prolonged hugs — that's his destiny, and that was always his destiny. And it will happen at some point. But you should never underestimate the sway of the Smart Teams. Every time they want someone, it inadvertently bumps up that player's value

    5. Al Horford (Hawks): 4 years, $48 million
    He signed a five-year, $60 million extension in November of 2010, so we're only in Year 2 of what almost immediately became a doozy of a bargain for the Hawks. He's the league's 41st highest-paid player right now, earning significantly less than peers like Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph and Chris Bosh. Carlos Boozer and Al Jefferson make 25 percent more per year than Horford does. Heck, Kris Humphries makes as much per year as Horford does.

    Quick tangent: I understand why players gravitate toward grabbing guaranteed money over just rolling things over and betting on themselves in the open market. I do. Just understand that it's the best possible way for a team to pay discount prices for an All-Star … as long as you're betting on the right guy (Rondo, Horford, Noah, Ibaka, Holiday or Curry) and not the wrong guy (like $50 million for Andrea Bargnani).

    Flipping that around: You might remember Roy Hibbert, Nic Batum and Eric Gordon passing up extensions and betting on themselves as restricted free agents. What happened last summer? Hibbert and Gordon landed max deals; Batum landed $46.5 million over four years. Expect the same good fortune for Brandon Jennings this summer — back in October, he only wanted the same numbers that Holiday and Curry were getting, Milwaukee balked, and now he's headed into the open market as a possible max guy during a piss-poor summer for marquee free agents. Should Jennings make more than Ibaka or Lawson?

    (Hold on, I have to find my cap locks key. Give me one second here.)

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You can't give the max or even anything close to the max to a shoot-first point guard who makes 40 percent of his shots, especially if it's someone who undeniably hurts his teams in crunch time. Of the 25 players who took the most "clutch" shots so far this season (close games, three minutes or less), Jennings has the second-worst field goal percentage (27.3 percent) and is tied for the fourth-most turnovers (nine). During the 2011-12 season, he took the fifth-most clutch shots (63) and made the lowest percentage of anyone in the top 25 (20.6 percent). During the 2010-11 season, he had the lowest "clutch" field goal percentage (25 percent) of anyone in the top 20 not named "DeMarcus Cousins" (a rookie that year). Really, he should be making Mike Conley/Goran Dragic/Jeremy Lin money (something like $8 million a year), but as they say in auctions, it only takes two dummies to drive up someone's price. No offense to Brandon Jennings, but I can't wait to make fun of the team that gives him $58 million over four years. And it WILL happen. (End tangent.)

    1. LeBron James (Heat): 2 years, $36.6 million
    Here's your MVP. Actually, this is always your MVP, as long as he's playing 39 minutes a night, slapping up 27-8-8s, shooting 55 percent, playing four positions and defending the other team's best guy. Just stop. Stop bringing up anyone else. He's the greatest player in 20 years.

    For the purposes of this column: If the NBA operated with an open market like baseball does, and teams could spend whatever they wanted without any real fear of the luxury tax, then LeBron would earn more than four times what he's making right now. You heard me … $75 million per season. That's not a misprint. The Lakers, Knicks and Nets would pay him that without blinking. Think of what you're getting: He drives up your courtside prices, your suite prices, your cable ratings (Miami's jumped 34 percent last season) and your sponsorship packages; he makes you the league's most relevant franchise; he guarantees you 10-12 playoff home games every year; and oh yeah, you might win a few championships, too.

    And actually, that $75 million number might be low. Once a year, Forbes magazine breaks down the team value of every NBA franchise. This year's report was especially fascinating — Forbes reported that the average value of the 30 teams had risen to $509 million, a 30 percent increase from last year, saying that "the increase is due to higher revenue from television, new and renovated arenas, and the NBA's new collective-bargaining agreement, which reduced player costs from 57% of revenues to roughly 50%." Translation: The owners didn't just beat the players in that last lockout; they trounced them like it was one of those Cowboys-Bills Super Bowls.

    Anyway, in 2009, Forbes valued the Cavaliers at $476 million and the Heat at $364 million. Four years later, they valued the Cavaliers at $434 million … and the Heat at $625 million. Gee, I wonder what changed.

    (LeBron James, you deserve a raise. A massive one. Just know that you won't get it.)

    By the way he also threw out a potential summer trade, Deng for Pau Gasol, it adds $12.5 million(including taxes) to the bulls payroll, would you do it Bulls fans.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Bill Simmons is awesome, and yes I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. Gasol is still one of the best forwards in the league and although I think he isn't ALOT Better than boozer like he was a couple seasons ago he still provides height and length that Booz doesn't have. But Derrick would really have to improve his pick and pop game.. I'd love that because you know have the two best passing big men in the game. Get a legit three point shooter and you have a legit team

  • In reply to StephanH:

    Personally, I might favor the trade that I proposed before the deadline, Deng for Gortat and Jared Dudley, 2 guys who both currently have a better PER than Deng.

    But, since I am a size guy, I would have to think long and hard about Deng for Gasol, even if it is about 5-6 years too late.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I think a big part of the reason Bulls overpaid Taj is they just lost Asik. Bulls absolutely did not want Taj to go to free agency after Asik....
    Also, Taj got good reviews playing for the Select Team with Team USA this summer. His rep was rising.

    But yes, it was a major blunder to lose Asik for nothing. Next up, Luol Deng.

  • Doug,

    I used basketball-reference to find the answer to your question: How many guys have gotten 10 assists and 10 blocks in a game? I assumed you meant separate games since only two guys have done it in the same game.

    The answer: 10 guys, including Noah. I listed them below:

    Hakeem Olajuwon
    David Robinson
    Vlade Divac
    Andrei Kirilenko
    Shaquille O'Neal
    Josh Smith
    Shawn Kemp
    Marcus Camby
    Larry Nance
    Joakim Noah

    One thing to note: basketball-reference only goes back to the 85-86 season for game data. I bet Kareem and Bill Walton have done it too, and probably Bill Russell and Wilt before they started recording blocks.

  • In reply to mcbecker5:

    He meant in the same game. That's the quadruple double threat he was talking about. Points, rebounds, assists, and blocks.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    I meant either to be honest. I was curious how many players have done both at any point in their career. If I recall correctly, I think there have only been four quadruple doubles in league history, but I'm not 100% certain on that.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I know that this is before everyone's time, but didn't Nate Thurmond have a quadruple double in his first game as a Bull in 1974 or 75.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I remember that game. It was Nate Thurmond first and best game as a Bull. 22 points, 14 rebounds, 13 assists, and 12 blocked shots.
    http://www.nba.com/bulls/history/thurmond_741018.html

  • Could Rose ask for a trade?...anything is possible...I just believe Miami will be unable to keep their team together under money restraints...... Wade & James legs will get older, while new fresher legs will come into this league......Miami will never have run like MJ's teams....

    I do believe that the Bulls will never let Boozer walk under the amnesty issue....plus Boozer and Noah play so well of giving the ball off to each other.....who is out there better than Boozer right now?.....

  • In reply to CubsTalk:

    Are you fucking kidding me, there are people commenting on this blog who are better than the BozoHole.

  • #boozerisanasshole giving us a full metal pussy performance as he gets into to foul trouble to avoid having to compete with less than 8 minutes gone in the game. Give me some Amundson, he should be able to compete against Hansbrough.

    Looks like Thibs is going to stick to his rotation and play small ball. Not much hope with Hinrich, Gibson and even Hamilton out. This is going to be ugly. Maybe the Bulls should never be allowed to play on Sunday, day or night.

  • Excellent article by Michael Wilbon @ ESPN Chicago. Don't forget that Wilbon is a Chicago fan, not just a national writer.

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/9001612/defense-carried-chicago-bulls-far-can

    Dovetails nicely with the theme of todays podcast, if not adding to the depression. Nothing that the sober thinking ones among us haven't been saying for years, but sometimes it is good to hear it from someone who is paid to know.

    Thibs must have gotten into Deng's drug supply tonight. Look at that lineup playing the majority of the second quarter. Teague, Bellini, Butler, Vladrad and Nazr, and they are not getting blown off the face of the earth. Still not worth watching, but better than the alternative.

  • Refs are killing us in the 3rd quarter. Continues into the 4rth. Has there been a possession in the last 6 minutes that they didn't call a foul on the Bulls. Aren't we short handed enough.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    over the foul limit with 6 minutes to go in the game, fucking assholes.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    another horseshit foul, teague is killing us, the kid just doesn't knwo how to play D.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Maybe if Thibs would give the kid some more in-game burn, he would be more adept at handling playing in crunch time against one of the top teams in the East.

    The kid isn't bad, just needs to learn how to slow down a little and make some smarter decisions. Overall, I was impressed with his handling and passing skills. Decent dribble penetration too.

  • In reply to Motoman:

    Not really blaming him(he is just 19-20) just stating the reality of the game. Hopefully, he will develop over time under Thibs. However, at this point, he only has one NBA level skill, dribble penetration, which in today's game is huge, so there is some hope for the future. He just should not have been in the game down the stretch, last 4-5 minutes.

  • The Bulls never cease to leave that slight glimmer of hope that they will win a close game like this to a better team, only to screw up the inbound pass on the game-tying possession.

    On the bright side, Butler has shown multiple times this season that he has the ability to be that "go-to" guy during clutch times. Just needs to get that jumper to become more consistent from game to game.

  • Not that Thibs would have figured it out, but with West killing us, I would have tried going big the last 4-5 minutes. Leaving Nazr in the game against Hibbert and matching Noah against West, which would have removed teague from the game. Deng did his best, which is way more than I can say for the BozoHole.

    Speaking of the BozoHole, Bulls beat on the boards again, led by Pussy the fake rebounder with 2. David West 29(11-18) & 7, PussyHole 6(3-9) & 2. Ballgame.

    Can't wait to hear from all you BozoHole apologists tomorrow, oh wait, we won't here from you, you will just ignor another full metal pussy performance from the HPOF(human piece of feces).

    Anybody(yea, that would be you Senile Sam Smith, and ass sucking Aggrey Sam) who doesn't get the difference between a man(David West) and a complete pussyhole(Bozo) just watch the tape of this game. He is absolute garbage who doesn't deserve a place on the earth, never mind an NBA court.

    We probably win this game if Hinrich plays, our execution down the stretch was pathetic. Despite waking up a bit in the fourth, Deng is just not good enough(for a team with championship aspirations) and for a 2 time fake all star he apparently does not understand the basic concept of floor spacing as evidenced by the inbounds play with less than 7 seconds left, practically tackling Noah while bringing 3 defenders into a 2 s.f. space.

    Not sure if Doris Burke was trying to get laid last night, but her love fest with Noah was almost as unseemly as was Brent Musburgers with that quarterbacks girlfriend in the National Championship game.

    Karma owed us this game to make up for the Spurs game, but it wasn't meant to be, and we are not the Pop coached Spurs.

  • Cool to see Derrick sitting on the bench. Games like this just go to show that Bellinelli needs to start. He gets into a rhythm as the game continues.

  • In a way I agree with you that Bulls will be hard pressed to make this team significantly better but on the flip side they put themselves in this situation so I have little desire to give them the it's too tough excuse.

    They made bad personel decisions and worse yet appear to have no plan whatsoever for the future! If there plan was the hold tight because we can't really improve and hope all the top teams get worse or injured enough for us to win then why let Asik walk? That weakened our team for sure and was a purely fiscal move as his poison pill was in a year that it would have been tolerable.

    So the hold tight plan seems to not be their plan and clearly they are not rebuilding / going young and going for cap space play. Instead we are in some retarded middle ground between the two where we let young assets walk for nothing but bring in old vets like we are contending for something. Paxson's failure to plan ahead and repeaded failure with big time free agents is the reason this team is "capped." I disagree with being a top regular season team without Rose is a job well done. John Paxson has shown he is a point A to B guy and will never be the guy that can take the next step. He repeats the same mistakes and builds the same style teams over and over.

    You want a try hard team like the Bulls or like the Sixers of last year than Pax is your dude. He hasn't shown the ability to adapt or grow and so he must go in my oppinion for this team to try and reach contender status. Back to Back one and done's and no plan to improve going forward is more than enough proof for me.

    Maybe its just me but I would rather have a young exciting athletic squad with high upside than a "top team" of unathletic try hards that go out after a round or maybe two. Paxson style is boring and has no shot at winning a championship outside of all the top teams getting devastating injuries and the Bulls staying completely healthy.

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