Don't trade Boozer for Bargnani

Mark Stein reporeted on ESPN that the Bulls and Raptors are talking about swapping Boozer and Bargnani. K.C. Johnson said the Bulls initiated the talks but a trade is unlikely. Good.

Look, I know Carlos Boozer pisses off plenty of people. For good reason as well. However, Andrea Bargnani isn't the answer. Sure he's younger and in theory he spaces the floor, but in theory Boozer gives you a 20/10 low post threat. Theories don't always work out.

Here's the thing, Bargnani does one thing well. Shoot from the perimeter. Oh wait, let me correct that. Bargnani has a reputation of doing one thing well but has actually shot 32.4% from the three point line over the last three seasons.

Carlos Boozer is a better passer, rebounder, has actually been healthier, and I'll even take him on defense over Bargnani. To top it off, if you make this trade, you lose the ability to amnesty Boozer and make a cap space play in 2014. That's probably not such a huge loss, as I doubt the Bulls make a cap space play anyway, but it does limit your options.

Now the Bulls would save money [and potentially get under the tax] with a trade for Bargnani, but they wouldn't save money in a way that allows them to improve the team. They'd save money in a way that just gives the team more profits.

I know there are arguments for Bargnani. He's the #1 guy with a crappy cast. He's had terrible coaching. He's misused. His role would fit in with what Chicago needs. He's younger and still has some potential to get better whereas Boozer is on the way down for sure. Sure, there's some validity to all of that.

I'm not driving the Boozer bandwagon [okay, there is no bandwagon], but he's better than Bargnani. This isn't the move you want to make.

Filed under: Trade rumors

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  • Does this move get the Bulls below the luxury tax? If so, it probably happens- basketball decisions.

  • In reply to Hoover:

    It's possible that it could, but it depends on the other players in the deal, the trade doesn't work straight up.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    No it won't/can't get us under the tax line in and of itself. The Bulls have to take back at least $11.92 million in incoming salary to make the deal work under the 125% plus $100,000 rule for trades between capped teams. Using ESPN's trade machine, it looks like the 2 smallest contracts on Torontos' roster that we can aggregate amount to about $2.165 million. In either event the Bulls are nearly $4 million over the tax line so we would still be around $1 million over the tax. Unless we make the deal much bigger we cannot get under the tax.

    For instance if we send out Bozo and Brick @ $20 million per we could take back as little as $15.92 million, theorietically getting us just under the tax line. What a dream scenario that would be, getting rid of our 2 most useless players and getting under the tax at the same time, killing 3 birds with one stone. This obviously assumes that Toronto would be willing to take both of those guys off of our backs. It seems to me that we would have to take back more long term salary to get them to do that, maybe Kleiza's contract which has a $4.6 million player option for next season, or something else distasteful.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    3-team trade...
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=afdbtef

    MEM gets Rip+Vlad+Mohammed+Cash (for Pondexter+Arthur*)

    TOR gets Boozer (for Barg+Anderson+Acy)

    CHI gets Barg+Arthur+Anderson+Acy+Pondexter (for Boozer+Rip+Vlad+Nazr) ...saves $5mil, gets under tax

    *Hamed Haddadi has an unguaranteed deal for next season. Raptors balked at adding 2 years of Darrell Arthur Twitter @WolstatSun (TOR beat reporter)
    +
    The Grizzlies are not done dealing, according to multiple sources -- they're just not looking to do any more stripping. The Grizzlies are far enough under the luxury tax that they're willing to utilize at least part of their $7.5 million trade exception to add some perimeter help.
    @RicBucher

    C. Noah (Arthur)
    PF. Taj (Barg)
    SF. Deng (Butler)
    SG. Belinelli (Nate)
    PG. Rose (Hinrich)

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Dude, you have way, way too much time on your hands. Get outside, do something.

  • I don't think this trade happens for 2 reasons. First you can't amnesty Bargani so poof there goes the 2014 plan, and second I live in Toronto and from the Raptors perspective why would they tie themselves to a bigger contract and limit their cap flexibility down the road. It's really just conversation.

  • In reply to argie2333:

    I agree from the raptors perspective, but I don't think the 2014 plan really exists.

  • In reply to argie2333:

    Bargnani's 2014 contract calls for an early termination. At this point, we don't know if that is his option of the teams option, and what the cost of the option is, if it is the teams. Clearly the specifics of that option are the key to the deal. If the option belongs to the Bulls and it is not too onerous, you pull the trigger, otherwise it becomes a very tough call.

    As for Toronto, I agree, they have to be fooled, like many Bulls fans(apparently, including Doug) that boozer is a legitimate low post player and a tough guy physically, which in reality he is not. He may however, provide them with a couple of extra easy rebounds per night, although without Noah to cover his ass, even that may not happen.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Its a player option

  • In reply to argie2333:

    KC Johnson reported CHI imitated these talks with TOR last week but TOR passes because they want Pau.

    What this means is, (like Doug said) the 2014 plan was never real.

    More evidence as to why it wasn't real? Asik's $15mil poison pill year wouldn't have mattered cuz Deng and Boozer's salaries would be gone...unless they were never planning to Amnesty Boozer...LIKE I'VE BEEN SCREAMING FOR 2 YEARS.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Actually, not matching Asik was mandatory to having a 2014 plan, as is amnestitizing bozo and letting Deng walk, all 3 have to happen to have a 2014 plan. You could resign Deng instead of going after a major free agent and just bring over Mirotic as an alternative plan.

    However, if you knew that you were going to do this Bargnani deal, then you should have just kept Asik, since you are not going to have any money in 2014.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    The 2014 plan was unveiled to us AFTER they let Asik walk. It was nothing but propaganda to get fans/media off their backs, but in fact, didn't even plan on Asik 2 or 3 years down the road.

    Asik's $5mil this year would have made sure the Bulls were in the luxury tax, and they couldn't justify dumping Asik this season (if we kept him).

  • If Bargs if healthy, I'd pull that trigger. How many times are you going to let Boozer put up great regular season stats and disappear in the playoffs.

    Worst case: save $5M a year and get Taj on the floor more.
    Best case: We have another player that is worth a shit in the playoffs.

  • In reply to JayJohnstone:

    I think the Bulls are trimg to pull the trigger regardless of his health.

  • I admit it, I swore when I heard this rumour. Please please please please please no. I don't like Boozer but Bargnani is abysmally awful. I wouldn't take him if his contract was $1 a year. The Raptors are 13-14 without him, 4-18 with him, that's how utterly horrendous he is!

    He literally does nothing well. Can't rebound, can't defend, heck he's supposed to be a shooter and he doesn't even do that at an average level, he's just a 7 foot sack of awful. He shouldn't even be in the NBA, let alone starting for a team.

    And the kicker is you can't even amnesty Bargnani. Seriously, if the Bulls make this trade and play him, they wont have home court in the first round even with Rose back, he's that much of a drag on a team. Bargnani, just say no.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Lol please please no. Guess boozer is not that bad huh?

  • In reply to Shakes:

    I am certainly not a huge Bargnani fan, hell he may become my newest most hated Bulls player, however, if the deal were made, I assume that Taj would start, and that hasn't looked so bad the past few games with Bozo and Noah out.

    I don't know if anybody noticed, but a couple of weeks ago, Taj said matter of factly that he expects to be a starter sooner rather than later. So there is that to think about also, maybe the Bulls want to get Taj in the starting lineup.

    Like I said, it all comes down to what the early termination option in 2014 is all about. I suppose that somebody will come up with that information in the next day or so.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Boozer has an early termination option too ... it's called amnesty.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Can't really disagree with your take, but in order to get rid of craptastic you have to take back craptastic.

    The fact that the Bulls went out to seek this trade proves how horrifically craptastic the bozo experience has been for the Bulls and their fans.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    In my personal opinion...
    Reinsdorf is cheap and his GarPax puppets make moves to keep millions in his pocket…i mean happy. They will never be fired.

    the Bulls will always operate like a small market team (unless a 2nd team comes and breaks up Reinsdorf’s pro basketball monopoly…MJ anyone?).

    So knowing all this, I don’t mind this trade. I wanted Boozer out after his first year with us. I made up my mind about him when i saw him being a liability on defense, stealing Noah’s rebounds, not being a post player but a jumpshooter. Guess who else would fills that role? Andrea Bargnani.

    There are a lot of negatives against Bargnani, but I’ve always felt he was a poor man’s Dirk. What happened when you put an elite defensive anchor alongside Dirk? Championship.

    Now obviously I’m not saying Bargs=championship (I said he’s the poor man’s Dirk)…what I Am saying is…Bargs could actually thrive playing alongside Noah.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    If MJ opened a second team in Chicago it would be like the Lakers Clippers of the 90s. Great players don't automatically equal great talent evaluators or team builders. It would just be sad.

  • In reply to Chad:

    He's not evaluating talent anymore. He tried that he failed. He has given up those reins to Rich Cho.

    In CHI (vs. CHA), MJ would be make MILLIONS in profit (as opposed to what's probably going on right now in CHA...losing money).

    With those profits, you don't think his team would be better? I do.

  • I'd want to know how long his contract is and who else would be involved in the trade before I said no. One way I could see this working for Toronto is that they know they will not get free agents so the only way they will get a good team is to make a trade. With Gasol no longer a trade possibility, Boozer might be their best chance. As for the Bulls, it would give them another guy who can score, and he could be a nother guy to play at center; but I think Noah and Boozer really play well together and I don't want to break that up for this trade. Unless the Bulls are going all in on Taj being the starting pf, I don't see this happening.

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    Ask Noah if he thinks that Noah and boozer play well together. That is a one way street if there ever was one. Noah becomes a better Noah with that monkey(no make that Gorilla) off his back. I am certain that Noah would rather play with Taj at his side any day of the week, that is just one of the miriad of reasons why getting rid of the Matabozo is addition by subtraction.

  • not sure what to make if this trade. What if bulls make this trade to flip bargnani in another trade??

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    Nobody wants Bargnani either, but in that final 3rd year, his $10mil is more appealing than $16mil.

  • I wouldn't be suprised if this was actually part of a bigger deal that was involving another team. Like a three team deal or something and the only part that was leaked was the part about boozer and Toronto. I really can't see this having any legs.

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    See my trade above for a potential 3-way.

    But KC Johnson reported Bulls initiated the trade idea and TOR passed because they wanted Pau.

    Now that LAL is thinking about moving Dwight, they might keep Pau taking him off the board for TOR and now TOR is thinking about Booz.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Gasol's latest injury effectively ends all trade speculation for both Laker's bigmen.

  • Aggy Sam from csnchicago is reporting its boozer and Nate Robinson for bargnani and John lucus. And the raptors are looking for better deal but deal is there if raptors want to make deal. WOW seems deal would be better for raptors.

  • In reply to bullzfan:

    He's to show you how much value Boozer has...'Bad Contract'

  • The most encouraging thing about this deal to me is that the Bulls approached the Raptors, which means that they are very cognizant that they are simply not good enough to win anything with the Matabozo on the roster.

    If as Aggrey Sam reported the Raptors want Nate, then we better ask for Terrance Ross in return, especially since all of you guys think that we are losing the deal to begin with.

    Of course the Bulls must not think so since they proposed the deal to the Raptors and apparently offered to swap Nate for JLIII to sweeten the deal for the Raps.

    Anyway, I am just excited to hear that the Bulls are our there doing some work, and that maybe we have something to look forward to as the trade deadline approaches.

    Do this deal and the Dalembert deal and we are a better team even if we get nothing out of Bargnani. Maybe make it a 3 team deal with the Bulls, Bucks and Raptors.

    If both Bozo and Brick are not part of the Bulls roster on February 22nd, I will be a happy man, at least until I have to watch Bargnani play every night.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    We should just be happy they didnt offer up a 1st to take Boozer

  • Our biggest hole is not having a young shooting guard and the Bulls are looking to switch mediocre big men, of which ours is probably the better player. this smells like some kind of salary dump that will make us a worse team. If they are sure that the mythological creature called Mirotic is coming in 2014, why even entertain going for Bargs when he can screw up the 2014 plan.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    The mythical creature is the 2014 plan.

    Bulls will be LUCKY if Mirotic comes over at all, let alone in 2 years.

  • This is something that the Bulls would do, bring in another stiff who is worst off than the one they woulx be trading for. I guess the team is playing better than the owner expected so he has to try and make the team start to lose more. Not a Boozer fan but why bring in more stink trash than Boozer.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I don't know why people keep asking why...'financial decisions'

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    I don't know why there are some senseless homer Bulls fans, the owner is cheap, not trying to win a championship, and there's no 2014 plan. You should really wake up man cause the Bulls FO are really feeding some of the teams fans a lot of hot garbage which some of you unfortunately are buying into. I'm not a fan of Boozer but making a deal like this and some rumors even have the Bulls throwing in Nate Robinson for JL3 in the trade are insane. But again this is something the Bulls would do cause you are right about one thing... CHEAP ASS FINANCIAL DECISIONS!!! There's no way I'm making this trade if it were my decision.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I don't understand what you're accusing me of.

    You asked why is this trade rumor even taking place, and I simply gave the answer...the owner is cheap.

  • For Anyone of you(clowns) who simply do not/can not understand what an historic piece of garbage that boozer is(he is as bad as anyone has ever been in the history of the game) please go back and look at the tape from last night, specifically about 4:40-4:30 to go in the first half.

    Butler has the ball stripped trying to make a move in the post leading to a 2 man quasi fast break for the Nugs. One of the bulls(not sure, maybe Cook, maybe even Butler) gets back to contest the layup causing a miss. Bozo who was at or above the free throw line when the turnover occurred, jogs back like he is taking a Sunday stroll in the park. That's bad enough, but when the shot is missed, he is actually between the rim(ball) and Kenneth Faried. Instead of easily grabbing the rebound, he ignors the ball and goes under the rim and out of bounds in order to do what he does best(inbound an opponents made shot)assuming that the shot was going in instead of rebounding the miss. Faried trailing boozer grabs the miss for an easy putback.

    This play was not an anomaly, this is how he plays all the time, every game, all game long, he is a gutless, heartless, mindless piece of garbage. He is undeserving of being an NBA player, he is barely deserving of being alive. There are no words vile enough to describe how disgusting he is as a "professional" basketball player, hate certainly doesn't cover it. I don't car how bad Bargnani is, we should trade boozer for a steaming pile of Bargnani's shit.

    Here's a thought, mayber after tonights game, we could trade boozer for Kenneth Faried, any of you think that would be a good deal for the Bulls, remember bozo scores more points per game than Faried and averages the same number of rebounds(this season).

    Just go watch that play, if you don't want to puke and then poke your eyes out with a scalding hot iron, then you are just the fans version of boozer himself, you just don't get it and you just don't care.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Barely deserving of being alive?!?! Take a chill pill dude!!!Seems your hatred for him goes beyond basketball. Smh

  • In reply to MJ23ERA:

    Yea, it is about character, or complete lack thereof, which is the essence of my hatred of the way that he plays(or doesn't) the game.

    Ask Cleveland fans what they think of his character, I'll bet Utah fans aren't much higher on it either.

  • It must be nice to have athletic players on Denver's team, something the Bulls F O knows nothing about

  • In reply to Reese1:

    We don't need athletic players when we have hustle guys rushing back from injury to hobble around.

    And then Thibs gets mad and makes them run sprints.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Ok u just proved you're no ball player. The more a player has athletic ability the chances of the player getting injured becomes even more less. And I take you'reone of thefans that ddon't like Thibs even tho he's been coach of the year and in the discussion every year he's been with the Bulls. Some of you guys just don't get it.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Uhh...what?

    I think you need to read my comment again.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    lol I think the same thing everytime we play an athletic team.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Taj, Butler, Rose, Nate are athletic. Maybe Noah too

  • 1. Doug....do you remember me screaming Jerry Reinsdorf will NEVER amnesty Boozer? Been saying it since the Amnesty Clause came back.

    Reinsdorf would rather give up a 1stRounder than pay Boozer $16mil to walk away.

    2. Been saying the 2014 Plan was never real. If it were Asik's $15mil poision pill year wouldn't have mattered because Deng and Boozer would be gone...unless of course they were never planning to Amnesty Boozer.

    3. Bulls may have gotten lucky with Nate and Belinelli, but the offseason was strictly a salary dump.

    4. This hard cap we have...was self imposed.

    5. Don't be fooled about Hinrich either. You really think Hinrich was going to MIL? Bulls threw him an extra million each year because he was one of Jerry's Boys, and because it 'forced' the Bulls to use the Bi-Annual on Belinelli (hard cap).

    6. That $5mil Korver Trade Exception? Useless because WE'RE HARD CAPPED!

    7. Don't be surprised if Mirotic never comes over.

    These are just off the top of my head. It's late, I can't think of any other. If I do, I'll add it on.

  • This sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Bargnani would definitely play better under Thibs than he has been. Boozer is never going to play better than he has the last month, and will probably fade when Rose comes back. This is trading Boozer at his top for a guy with upside and a smaller contract. Hard not to like.

    Don't let the last month of Boozer playing a little bit better than we expected fool you. He's still the same guy and not a championship caliber #2. And if Thibs can make Bellinelli a hard-working, if not respectable defender, he can get the same out of Bargnani by the start of next season.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    You just may be right about all this. Can coaching upgrade Barg? It is a bit of a throw of the dice, but so is getting out of bed in the morning!

    In this trade, I would rather see Rip and a #2 pick instead of Nate, however. The Bulls might have a shot at a playoff run this year, and Nate could help that.

    Still need a backup C.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Agree, I have no desire to give away Nate in this deal either, but some writers are suggesting that Thibs wants JLIII back. I find that hard to believe given how well Nate has played. Although neither one of those guys really has a place in the rotation after Rose comes back.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    We would have to hope that Thibs could make Bargnani try harder and play smarter like he did with Korver last year and even Belli this year.

    However, even Thibs has his limits, in 2 plus years he hasn't been able to make even a single dent in the concrete skull attached to bozo's body. so there is still a huge risk that he might not be able to work his magic on Bargs either.

  • A few thoughts on the posts:

    1) The Bulls won 6 championships with the same owners. During that run, they paid MJ the largest yearly salary that any sports figure had ever received! And he deserved it. And they (Krause actually) repeatedly got solid role players to fill in the roster. So the ownership is not cheap -- this is a business! But not for us fans. We have no money in this pot, but we do have our emotions and hopes in play. So we look at it differently.

    "Reinsdorf would rather give up a 1stRounder than pay Boozer $16mil to walk away." So would I! A lot of 1st round picks do not hang around the NBA for long!

    They will pay for a championship team, even going into the tax, but it will have to be a high probability scenario for them to do it.

    2) We do not know precisely what the 2014 plan is. (Yes, if it exists.) The FO would not and should not tip their hand; after all, there are 30 teams bidding for the same FAs and potential draft picks.

    3) Do fans really believe that the FO just lucked into Belli and Nate? And how many want to trade Butler or Teague now? Plus Deng, Noah, Asik, and Taj were all good picks. So was Mirotic. So the FO might deserve the benefit of any doubt (which there is some) for a while. Let's see how this all plays out.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    I agree totally, lets stop whinning like children and see how it plays out

  • In reply to rustyw:

    He had no choice to pay mj. mj was never one of highest paid players until that second 3peat. before that he only earned about 18mil total or somewhere around there from bulls. His money came from endorsements

  • In reply to MJ23ERA:

    And compared to the money he brought in/generated for the Bulls, that $30+ million salary was a pittance.

  • In reply to Salvamini:

    I agree. Just making point that Reinsdorf even had hard time giving mj money

  • I think bulls should make trade. There's alot of what ifs the bulls would be relying on which there are doing it any way. What if rose comes back better? What if boozer step up in the playoffs wil be we able to get pass Miami etc...what if a change of scenery is what bargnani needs? What if this can bring out his potential? All are unknowns. Bargnani contract may be little bit bitter to trade if he does not work. The bulls never take chances. I say go ahead and make trade if Toronto don't like the other offers they receive from other teams. Then if it don't work out everyone will have LEGIT reasons to not like FO. LOL

  • Boozer has been playing better in Rose's absence, but that's going to end soon (hopefully). In fact, re-tailoring the team to suit the new D.Rose is going to be a fascinating sub-plot soon. We know Thibs is never going to replace veterans in the starting line-up, and many of us would like to see Belinelli and Taj starting NOW to see how usefully they fill those positions in the future. Trading Boozer for Bargs let's Taj start, and brings Bargs as back-up for both Jo and Taj. Would he flourish in that role under Thibs? I'm very curious! I'm even more curious to see what Marco could do playing 35 minutes with Derrick... And hopefully, Kirk becomes Derrick's back-up, leaving Nate OR JLIII to come on only for instant offense, at which JL will be competent... Bargs himself is far from ideal, but this is one way to put breath of fresh air in starting line-up, AND get ready for next year. I'm neither FOR or AGAINST with any strength, but it will be interesting if it happens... May have more chance for success than believing that Booze will continue to be a force whilst deferring to Rose.

  • For what it is worth, the fans in Toronto are against making this trade by 52% against to 32% for, with 16% undecided. just another indication of how truly worthless bozo is, as bargnani was booed last night in his return from injury.

    Apparently the 3rd year of Bargnani's contract($11.5 million in 2014) has a termination clause at the players option, therfore, I very reluctantly have to decline this deal. I still want to hold out hope that there is indeed a 2014 plan.

    The fact that the Bulls are willing to take on significant salary in 2014 makes me think that they are not planning to amnestitize bozo even in that final year. Which also, means that they will continue to try to move bozo over the next 2 years, probably at any cost.

    A trade that I have suggested in years past, bozo for Emeka Okafor. Okafor has played quite a bit better since John Wall returned from injury, as have most of the Wiz. Okafor makes $13.5 million this year and $14.5 million next year, so they can be traded straight up for each other with no other considerations involved. However, even if the Wiz like the trade on the floor(which I am not saying that they do, but it is worth asking), they probably say no to adding bozo's $16.8 million in 2014 when Okafor comes off the books, and they have only $13 million in guaranteed salary for Nene. They could probably keep John Wall and have double max salary cap room left.

    Personally, I think that Okafor makes a better fit with Noah and Gibson in a nice three man rotation. He probably scores a few less points than bozo, but fits way better into Thibs defensive system, and the rebouding would be a wash at worst, especially since more than half of bozo's rebounds are the result of basket hanging in the lane while breaking down the entire Bulls defense.

    Then do the Brick Hamiltion for Dalembert deal, and the Bulls would have an extremely solid 4 man big rotation that should kill on defense and the boards, while providing just enough opportunity offense to keep teams honest.

    Presto, all of our problems solved, assuming that Rose can get up to speed by the playoffs. How hard would it be to get that done, especially if Sam Smith is the GM in Washington and Milwaukee.

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