Bulls Beat #269 - Rose report

Bulls Beat #269 - Rose report

I discuss all star weekend, Derrick Rose's shocking statements, and why nothing will happen at this trade deadline.

Bulls Beat #269 - Rose report

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Tags: bulls beat, chicago bulls, nba, podcast

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  • I don't blame Rose for having his doubts about the Bulls. And it's true, they aren't good enough. With that being said it's not the players fault, management is to blame. There's no excuse for Asik and Korver to both be gone for the sake of being cheap.

    I still say we should go ahead and trade Boozer for Ben Gordon. We accomplish several things with this trade. Our outside shooting improves, we get a guy who can score the ball and create for himself, we get out of a year of Boozers contract, and in my opinion I think this makes us more well rounded. It will make us skimpy in the front court but hey, management should have kept Asik and we wouldn't be in this situation, but I say we do it.

  • In reply to ajaychitown:

    SG. Rip, Belinelli, and sometimes Butler
    PG. Rose, Hinrich, Nate, Teague

    If we're trading Boozer, it would be for Bargnani and not another guard....unless we get a big along the way

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Teague only plays in garbage time, Belineli has been worse playing behind Rip, Rip is constantly injured and so is Hinrich, and Butler's not a scorer. The only one who's really been consistent in the back court is Nate and he's streaky. With the exception of Nate every player is a kick and pop shooter at a poor percentage. Taking all that into consideration our entire back court is trash. Only our front court is effective and your not going to win too many games with half a team. I would trade any combination of players in our back court for Gordon. As far as I'm concerned without Rose we don't have a back court.

  • I think you're wrong to say the cast hasn't fallen away that much. The Bulls are worse on both ends of the floor this year compared to last year when Rose didn't play.

    However I doubt that's the real reason Rose isn't playing, it's far more likely he doesn't want to damage his brand by playing at anything less than his old level. I'm OK with Rose sitting out the whole year if only because it should minimize his re-injury risk, but he really should have let management know before the season that he was going to play it conservative so they could tank this year.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    I don't know that Rose knew if he'd sit out the whole year. I think Rose figured he'd play when he felt good and wasn't sure when that would be.

    I think management probably felt the same.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I don't mean to imply he chose before the season started to sit the year, but he must have known he wasn't going to come back under-done like Shumpert or even Rubio to an extent seems to have. If he had said that he wasn't going to push for as early return as possible management could have told him "OK, take as long as you like even if it takes the year, we'll tank it and get you the best possible team for 2013-14 when you're ready".

    Then again for all I know he did tell them that and the Bulls decided that a first round exit was more profitable than tanking.

  • Regarding Rose possibly sending the Bulls a message, I really can't say that I'd have a problem with it, so long as it doesn't go too far.

    There's middle ground in between Rose being pissed off at the Bulls, and Rose just sitting around and allowing them to just dance around the luxury tax year after year after year, and continue to milk the all living hell out of his popularity.

    So, though ultimately you want to leave the team building decisions up to management, again, there's middle ground. So I'd have no problem with him essentially saying ''Hey, I'll back off and let you do your jobs, but just so you know, I'm paying attention.''

  • The thing is, the Bulls cast is still pretty good. They probably win 47 games without Rose this season. If you take the best player off any team in the NBA, how many win that many games still? Probably not many. Which means, the cast isn't so bad as we sometimes feel like it is.

    It does have weaknesses in terms of secondary scoring options, but he has a brilliant group of defenders around him to take pressure off of him in other ways.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I'd even say they are a 50 win team without the injuries this season. Kind of wishful thinking though, seeing as the bulls have been catching the injury bug around this time for the past 2 seasons.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Well, the Bulls won 55 games in the first year of Jordan's retirement. They really didn't fall apart until the next season when Horace Grant left.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I agree that the team outside of Rose is good. (And just to be clear, I'm not advocating him sitting out games to send a message, a message can be sent without taking it that far.) But sending a message and letting them know you're watching them goes beyond just how good the team is now (or at any given moment). You've also got the possibility that the team could be even better than it is if more money was spent on it (even if, as it is, it's still good/very good).

    Bottom line, I want ownership to know that they're being watched, in order to keep them out of any potential coma of indifference.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Spurs and probably the Thunder could do it out West. I think Denver and Memphis could do it if you swapped them to the East (although who their best players are is up for debate). Maybe the Clippers could do it without Chris Paul if you gave them Thibs instead of VDN.

    Arguably Indiana are doing it, although I disagree as George has clearly overtaken Granger as their best player. New York maybe too, as in a small sample they're 11-8 without Melo the last two years (although Chandler is far more important for them IMO, most people would declare Melo their "best" player). I think the Heat as currently constructed would fall short, but if they knew LeBron would be out for the best part of the year and could have made different off-season moves to compensate, then I think a roster built around Wade and Bosh would make it.

    So I count anywhere from 3 to 8 other teams have as good a supporting cast as the Bulls, depending on how you want to count it. I think this season's supporting cast is good but not great like it was last year, where without Rose they still played like an elite team.

  • Very proud of Noah for being the player on the floor at the end of the All-Star game. Glad he and god knows what else didn't get traded to Orlando for a one-year rental of that bum Howard.

    What a game from LeBron. Haven't seen him play that bad since the Dallas Finals.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    Yeah, that was comically bad for LeBron at the end of that game. What's funny is that LeBron looked like he was trying to make it personal and take over, but he simply couldn't.

  • Wow, Doug, awfully harsh on Deng, especially for you. However, I totally agree with you. In fact you sounded more like me than you did your usual self.

    Basically, agree with all your other points, the Bulls must be getting real boring if we are agreeing on everything. I facetiously threw out bozo for baby bozo(Gordon) as a way to save money without forcing Reiny to do something that is anathema to the very core of his being, amensty(i.e. giving away money). But you are right, since we made the huge mistake of letting Asik walk(which you totally agreed with) we cannot get rid of Bozo in a salary dump unless we are getting a useable bigman back.

    The problem is that bozo and his attendant contract are even worse than either Bargnani or Gordon and their contracts

    Which is why you are correct that no matter how much we froth at the mouth this week, the end result will be that nothing will happen, unless the Bulls throw away a #1 pick in order to dump Brick and get under the tax, which would be infuriating

    The Rose news was somewhat deflating, but then again so will the initial stages of his return. I will be glad to have him back this year, but it should only happen when there is a 100% guarantee that he cannot reinjur himself. If not then it is far better for him to return next season.

    However, as I have stated recently, the bulls should not just stand pat this entire summer waiting for his return, they should be proactive in restructuring the team for long term success, i.e. no more Brick, Bozo and Deng. My bet is that they will do absolutely nothing until at the earliest next years trade deadline.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I have a hard time imaging the Bulls doing anything either. I'm not sure what they can do really. They could maybe find a taker for Boozer with two years on his deal, but they aren't going to improve the team.

    I'm sure they'll cut Rip, but they've effectively got trades and either the MMLE or MLE plus their draft pick (likely in the low 20s) to mix things up with. That's not a lot.

    The real question for them will be whether or not they are willing to use Mirotic/Charlotte pick in a trade to bring in legitimate talent and whether they're willing to pay legitimate talent given the costs on the roster already.

    I'm not sure if that would be the right thing to do or not, but Derrick Rose is probably going to give the Bulls his best performances in 2015/16 and 2016/17 if he stays healthy. Neither of those assets are likely to be at their peak at that point, so you have to wonder if you should cash them in for something better to maximize your team over those two years.

    That said, they'll have a tough battle to figure out. Do you keep Deng knowing that he's good but not great? If you lose Deng how do you replace him with something good?

    This is why I wonder about my bust up the team plan this summer. If you had traded Deng for Jefferson + Harrison Barnes (or someone else drafted in the same slot) then traded salary relief for Ben Gordon + Detroit's pick, then likely tanked the season, you'd be looking at a core of:
    Rose, Noah, Gibson, Butler

    Then you'd have young pieces of:
    Barnes
    Our lotto pick
    Detroit Pick
    Charlotte Pick
    Mirotic

    In 2014 you amnesty boozer, and you also have lots of cap room.

    In that scenario, you're really hoping you can make something happen with those picks, and the odds are that you don't really end up much better than where the Bulls are, because you're still not likely to get a star with one of them fast enough, but it would have given them a lot of leverage to trade for one if one were to become available.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I think the Bulls can't make much of a move until Rose comes back and shows he'll still be what he was. If you're going to make a run with Rose then it makes sense to trade the assets for established players, but if Rose turns out to have suffered a permanent reduction in his athleticism then it makes more sense to blow it up and rebuild.

  • It all comes back to them breaking up the team. I could understand letting Brewer walk to free up playing time for Butler, but I still say we would have been so much better off just keeping CJ, Korver, and resigning Asik. In that Scenario our front court stays strong with a reasonable rotation. With CJ and Korver still on board, you no longer need to sign Hinrich to a 2 year deal, or even sign Belineli or Nate Robinson for that matter. Then there's the signing of Radmanovic and Mohammed which in my opinion was just a waste of money. I don't even agree with the draft selection of Teague. While he does have potential, knowing your not bring Asik back wouldn't it have made more sense to draft a big? Not trying to sound too negative but i just fail to see the Bulls vision right now and management is looking sloppy and like they have no idea what they're.

  • They have no idea what they're doing.

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