Bulls Beat #264 - Heating up

Bulls Beat #264 - Heating up

The Bulls defeated the Heat in Miami to help bolster fan confidence after a loss to the Bobcats.

Bulls Beat #264 - Heating up

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Tags: bulls beat, chicago bulls, nba, podcast

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  • Let me start by saying that i would gladly take in trade with the Nets, Humphries and a couple other players like their shooting guard Brooks and another player or asset for Boozer but we should all know that the Bull aren't creative enough ( CHEAP) to get a deal like this done. And Doug this team can be improved but the owner has to be willing to pay the tax, but again we all know that's not going to happen and thats the reason why we will say bye bye to RIP Hamilton soon.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Oh... and Cook is a good pick up hopefully he'll get the shots that hd need to be effective in the Bulls stagnet offense. And again, in order for this team to win and compete for a title their going to have to make some bold moves and pay the tax... GOOD LUCK WITH THAT WISHFUL THOUGHT, the organization can afford it but wont do it for the fans.

  • A cautionary note about trading Rip Hamilton, who has really become a steaming pile of shit on defense every bit as bad as Bozo is and the baby Bozo(Ben Gordon) was.

    While I am all for getting rid of him for any and all of the reasons that Doug mentioned, if the Bulls have to pull a Kirk Hinrich trade to do so, it would be truly foolish. Remember, the bulls gave away their #1 in the 2010 draft(pick17) just to dump Hangdogs salary. Giving up this years #1 pick to dump Hamilton just to get under the tax would be even more foolish.

    Bulls fans would you trade Hangdog for Eric Bledsoe(Clippers) or Avery Bradley(Celtics). I bet that we all would in a heartbeat and that neither the Clippers or Celtics even bother to pick up the phone.

    So why ask the question. Well, here is some ironic 20/20 hindsight analysis.

    Bledsoe was the 18th pick in the 2010 draft, and Bradley was the 19th. So had the Bulls not given away the 17th pick to dump Hangdog the first time around, they could have had their choice of either Bledsoe or Avery. and instead of reacquiring and overpaying(again) Hangdog this past summer, he would have been an expiring contract and likely no longer needed.

    We would not have had to draft Teague, perhaps addressing a different need other than Rose's injury. Additionally, we might have found ourselves under the tax line and not in a position to need to trade Hamilton and giving away another #1 pick.

    In hindsight, hindsight really sucks.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Clearly though with the benefit of hindsight the 2010 free agency was rigged and the Bulls wouldn't have paid draft picks for cap space, no.

    Though even with hindsight your examples are cherry picking. Draftexpress had the Bulls taking Damion James with that pick. Not such a big screw up if that happened.

    But Rip being traded is different anyway. Hinrich being traded was a basketball decision, and attempt to get cap space to sign a better player. Rip wont be a basketball decision, it'll be purely to avoid the tax. My only hope that the Bulls don't throw a first into it is that first round picks are low paid and JR will see that players on rookie contracts are the best way to avoid future tax.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Trading Hinrich also gave the Bulls room to sign Brewer and Korver. If you swap Brewer and Korver for Hinrich and Avery/Bledsoe, the Bulls don't lead the league in wins the past two years.

    In hindsight you would not make this trade only because it might make you better right now, but in 5 years you might look back and say it was still worth it because you wouldn't be looking at the immediate present. I mean knowing we wouldn't get the top 2 free agents and knowing you wouldn't win the title, you could say in hindsight you'd ahve made a dozen moves just to have more young talent/draft picks now.

    However, they would have made no sense at the time.

    Trading Kirk was the right move to make when it was made with the information available. The upside was getting LeBron and WAde and having a dynasty for the next five to 10 years. You take that risk, and Bledsoe/Avery don't change that.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    That said, I agree that trading a draft pick with Hamilton to save tax money would be the ultimate slap in the face to fans.

    Trading Hinrich was a calculated risk to go for massive increased win potential. Trading Hamilton would be about lowering your odds to win just to save money.

  • The problem with benching Rip is he'll probably just have a tantrum like he did in Detroit to get his way on to the Bulls. Trading him might be the only clean way the Bulls can get Marco back into the starting line up. Not that it makes trading Rip any less of a cynical tax dodge.

    While I agree that Miami might not be giving 100% in the regular season, I don't think it's that much less than that. It doesn't even make sense that they'd be taking it super easy, the East is weak enough that if they really had it in them they could win it with 10 games to spare and rest their starters leading into the playoffs.

    IMO they cultivate the image that they're not really trying as an ego thing. If they look like they're trying too hard and fall well short of 70 wins yet again then it blows the whole super team hype out of the water. Better to look like you're content with 55 wins.

    I'd be interested in your take on what you think the Bulls should do to give the best chance against Miami as they decline ... you touched on hoping that Mirotic is really good, but is waiting on him what you'd do? Would you consider trading his rights instead? Would you keep Noah and Deng or look for younger models? If they keep Deng how do the Bulls go about re-signing him given he'll be 29 when this contract expires? As a team looking to avoid the tax extending him for 5 years until he's 34 seems very unwise.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    If the Bulls are going to play moneyball then they can't afford to trade Mirotic, because they'll need his cheap contract to balance out all the more expensive quality players.

    If you could get something really good for him, you'd have to consider moving him, but I don't think it's likely that you're going to get all that much for Mirotic.

    You're right that one of the big problems even with waiting for Miami to be in decline is the Bulls core isn't much younger, so they'll be in decline soon afterwards if they go with the same guys.

    I think they've generally committed to having to do that though. The time to get different players and make a major shakeup to the team was this past summer. When they passed on that, they made it much more difficult to do the same thing later.

    I think their best hope is to look for a LaMarcus Aldridge or Kevin Love trade in a couple years, but that would mean a willingness to pay significant luxury tax that they haven't shown to this point.

  • The real reason to dump Rip is not to avoid paying a small tax this year, but to avoid a tax paying year when not competing for a championship and starting the clock on the repeater tax.

    The repeater tax will turn out to be by far the biggest factor in the new CBA. It is the closed thing to a hard cap that the owners have ever had, creating an effective hard cap at somewhere between $5-10 million over the tax line.

    I don't know which year will be the first year that the repeater tax can be paid, or when the clock started ticking with regard to the 3 out of 4 year repeater rule. Has it already started, does it start this year, next year, did it start with the signing of the new CBA, was it retroactive? Does anybody know the answer to that question definitively, Larry Coon, maybe.

    Basically, in order to avoid the repeater tax, a team has to either alternate every other year as a tax payer vs non tax payer, or if they pay 2 years in a row then they have to be out of it 2 years in a row.

    Unless the tax line increases significantly(well over $75 million), with Taj kicking in next season, the Bulls are locked into paying the tax next year, with over $73 million committed to just 8 guys.

    So, if they pay the tax this year, they will have to be under the tax in both 2014-15 and 2015-16 to avoid the repeater tax. Since those are our next best chance to improve the team to a legitimate championship contender it makes a lot of sense to get out of the tax this year to give us the flexibility to pay it in 2014, or more likely 2015-16.

    This is why I believe that it is an absolute certainty that the Bulls will trade Rip and I believe that it is an absolutely prudent move toward building a contender. I just hope that we can find a way to move him without giving up a #1 pick, as the value of #1's has gone up dramatically under the new CBA, at least financially.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I believe the repeater tax clock for the league starts this year. For the Bulls it definitely does since they didn't pay the tax any other year anyway, the earliest they could pay repeater tax is at the end of 2016/17 season.

  • Barring another injury, my money is on the bulls to have between 32 to 35 wins byt the All Star break. I may be drinking more kool-aid than is good for me but it seems to me they got that "play like crap" thing out of their system and are now ready to play competitve ball until Rose gets back.

    Thibs does seem comofrtable with Hamilton in there so may be he sees something we dont? Or maybe he is more sensitive and attuned to the internal politics (both FO and locker room)

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