Chicago Bulls roll their eyes at new flopping rules

The Chicago Bulls met with the referees yesterday to go over new points of emphasis in the rule book. The largest one being the "no flopping" rule. Ironically, no one seems to be discussing that this was a point of emphasis last year as well and nothing changed.

I can actually see the eyes rolling in the responses the Bulls have about flopping questions. They seem to know already that this rule seems like an excuse to give Wade/LeBron more calls despite being amongst the biggest floppers out there.

Joakim Noah:

"I guess I think that that's a good rule," he said. "It's going to be hard to enforce because it's pretty opinionated, but we'll see."

Tom Thibodeau:

"It's not just defensive flopping, it's offensive flopping," Thibodeau said. "It's things that are being done with the ball, where I think it's gone too much in the other direction. "

Luol Deng:

"I think it's just (going to be) how the season goes," Deng said. "There's still a gray line right there. Not a lot of guys can really take a charge without flopping so I wonder how they're going to treat that one because if I keep just taking the hit and I don't fall do you call the charge?"

Sure sounds like the group collectively thinks the rule is bullshit and will be called that way. Thibs and Deng both called out the points that annoy me about the flopping rule the most. If you want to remove flopping stop allowing the offensive player to get calls by barreling into people out of control. Stop forcing a player to fall down to get an offensive foul call.

The idea that a defender's feet have to be perfectly set to get a charge is stupid. The call should be about which player reasonably got to the spot first. If both players are running next to each other than the offensive player runs sideways into the defensive one it should be a foul because the defender's feet weren't set.

The defender should have a right to continue in the direction he was already going if the offensive player can't get ahead of him. While the rules actually do allow for that, the game is rarely called that way.

Marco Belinelli already indoctrinated into the offense doesn't matter camp

So Marco Belinelli hasn't hit a three point shot yet, but is that a problem? Of course not. Just like every Bull over the past few years the problem lies in lack of defensive effort.

The next time Thibodeau emphasizes offense might be the first.

"I'm trying to understand the system and be a better defender," Belinelli said. "That's what (Thibodeau) keeps emphasizing to me. Everything is new for me, so step-by-step. I can play better.

"I haven't shot well and I'm going to work a lot on that. It will come. I don't have to think too much about that."

Tom Thibodeau believes defense wins basketball games. Whenever something goes wrong, blame the defense. Hold Miami to 90 points a game in a playoff series but lose? Blame the defense. Lose 83 to 81? Blame the defense.

Thibodeau appears to believe defense that defense can be coached up far easier than offense, and that guys sometimes miss shots and make shots but this can't be controlled through coaching.

There's some merit to the thought that a player can't be coached into hitting a jumper, however, a team can be coached into generating easier looks. It feels like the Bulls need an injection of that.

Luol Deng and Rip Hamilton to play tonight

The pair of players missed Saturday's game (second half of a back to back) with "general soreness". Both players have been in the league long enough that they can take a preseason game off, but with the mentality of this locker room I'm surprised to see it.

If they're legitimately sore already that's not the best sign to start the season. My guess is that it was simply a vacation day with no real reason to push either guy at this stage of the season, but the fact that they need one three games into preseason doesn't have me amped up about their durability.

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  • Yes, this "flopping" rule is majorly flawed IF it allows big-time floppers like Wade and James to get away with barreling over players on offense. I found it very ironic that Kobe questioned the manhood of floppers last year, yet he's essentially a flopper on offense and gets rewarded for it, time and time again. So Thibs and Deng has made a great point here.

    Frankly, the biggest flaw with the NBA is the bogus "star calls," and these will probably go up because of this rule. James is a bit like Shaq, a freak-sized athlete at his position, but he's also an offensive foul waiting to happen IF those charges are called. But we all know they won't be.

    In other words, this will be another season in which I will make sure to miss all Heat games ... and simply hope that they lose a series well before the Finals come around.

  • In reply to Curious E:

    People will discount the Shaq offensive foul waiting to happen, but IMO the league definitely changed the way they officiated bigs for Shaq. While still a great player, as he did have many low post scoring shots/moves unlike Howard, many of those bull rush spins into defenders bodies/space were just flat out f-ing offensive fouls. But since nobody wants to deligitamize their time or history people will deny this and say Shaq was just that strong, and deserved those calls. Whatever, officials have been muddying up the games more and more not less IMO.

    What cracks me up is people point to M.J. as an example of favoritism yet he was just assaulted by Rodman and the Pistons for years. Plus you could put a hand(or two) on a guy back then. He travelled, and got star calls, lots of them, but IMO he was no flopper or LeBron runaway truck barrel into you. And agreed about Wade, every time he tries to fake a foul he stays on the floor or holds his eye/face as if he had something lopped off. He is the worst without doubt. Of course LeBron likes to give that wink. You gotta love it.

  • The flopping, everybody says the refs on the court have a hard time seeing it. Sure we've had flopping a long time, but in recent times it has been worked into an art form.

    Tell me seriously if we had five agreed upon reasonable Bulls fans from this site watching a live monitor of the game just the way fans would see it, you're telling me on at least half of the flops we can't reach a consensus that it is definitely a flop? And rather quickly if not immediately. I'd almost rather just judge it on live plays then replays honestly which can distort the reality of the movements and impact.

    So why not have a fourth video official simply watching the monitor for flops? It may sound extreme, but I think flopping has been on the upswing, and muddies up the game quite a bit giving inferior players who have the flopping technique down to a science an edge they simply shouldn't have.

    The flop should be judged rather easily and quickly, and the monitor official signals a light that he's reviewing a possible flop. then at the next stop of play or time out the offender is charged with a technical foul, and the opposing team gets two shots and the ball. That'll stop the flopping and bring the punishment in game where it beongs. Not to some snickering player who faked his way into stealing a key possession or score, and then getting some stupid "warning" days later.

    As for the charges, it has become a macho overdramatized ref's shining moment to dramatically quash a play and say, "No soup for you!!" It's ridiculous. IMO a charge, I mean the guy has to be cleary set for a good half second. This is how they used to be called. Now guys get their body lurching into the lane like they have position, when in reality they are still sliding their feet big time. It makes charges an unfair and artificial advantage IMO.

    I agree with Doug that superstars more then ever, especially LeBron for example, just plows into guys that are set, and is just unfair and absurd to call those cases defensive fouls. In fact, they are offensively cheap ways to score that should not be legitimized, and the driver in such cases should get the offensive foul or charge, or how about this for a change, a no call??!! "Say whaattt!!??" NBA over empowered, glorified referees. .

    One more officiating dogma that is rigorously enforced is the post big, often a star, banging into a still, arms rasied defender yet getting defensive fouls called, and trips to the line. Again, an artificial and unfair advantage. Those fouls make me sick as they slow up the game, and make the refs way too much of a presence in NBA games. I'm not watching to see refs incessantly calling low post fouls on set defenders or a bunch of glorified court police staring at a monitor on an obvious shot before or after the buzzer. Everybody can see if it was good or not in most cases,. yet these guys stare at the monitor like frozen in time stiffs.

    Those shot clock reviews should be limited to 1 minute. If by then there's no definitive call, then the original call stands. Too bad the NBA will compromise the true fairness and reasonable intent of the game for money and aggrandizement of 'stars.' And of course next will be the Euro style motor oil to Depends ads on player jersey's. Too much.

    At least we're not seeing the get the guy in the air pump fakes and then the offensive player headbut into them getting called or attempted this year. I hope that continues because that just sucked to the extreme rewarding shooters with a cheap trip the line when they are the ones initiating contact i.e comitting the foul.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    OK great, now my original post magically appears. Sorry for the second post if and when it decides to show up.

  • Outstanding points being made on defensive players getting charged into by offensive players, and whether they'll even call a foul on the offensive player if the defensive guy takes a hit, but just absorbs it and doesn't actually fall down. In fact, since plays like that look more similar to blocking fouls than ones where the defender falls down, it may be alot tougher for the officials to distinguish between the two, so you wind up with offensive fouls being called as blocking fouls because it looks like the defender is impeding the progress of the offensive player, when he's really just standing his ground in the space he has every right to, and it's the offensive player who runs into HIM.

    So, if these rules are going to fully work, the officials are going to have to make significant mental adjustments.

  • God I hate it when a post just f-ing dissapeears when you're sending it. Ususally with posting too quickly crap you can just refresh and not lose the message, but this time the post just literally dissapeared.

    Anyway, short version:

    1) Charges, feet set for a half second not lurching body into place with feet still sliding. This ruins the game rewarding drama queen refs and inferior defenders.

    2) Flopping Let's face it you could take five agreed upon Bulls fans from this site, and watch a monitor same as a fan sitting at home, and they could tell you when there's a flop at least two thirds of the time immediately. Not some slow mo reality distortion, game flow/momentum killer.(In fact, that's what refs are becoming in all sports, game flow of excitement killers and often momentum interferers).

    So have a fourth person or "official" watching a monitor for flops. He(she) signals a light when he's reviewing a potenmtial flop, and he has one minute to decide if it's obvious. Then the next dead ball flopper get's a tehcnical foul with the other team awarded two free throws and the ball. That'll get rid of the flopping. Not some "warning" sent to an often inferior player who has mastered flops as art form who stole a key score or posession only days later to get a shame on you telegram.

    Finally, low post foul calls or 'gimmees.' How many times do you see a offensive talent or star big turn or run into a defender who is set with arms raised, and get the foul call. Refs, I'm not watching an NBA game to see all this unecessary stoppage of play. You are ruining post play with all these artificial stoppages. Bud out. And with Lebron like running wildly into the lane i.e defenders and getting a defensive fould call, put the whistle away, and shockingly, bud out of the game, and Play On!

    Oh, and buzzer beater reviews, rather then frozen in time game killing TV staredowns, you have 1 minute to decide a buzzer infraction. If it's obvious call it, or the original call stands. Frankly, NBA refs have become way too much a part of the game. Go back to your role as an official, not a moral majority play by play arbitrator. The real drama is already in the game, not your whistles.

  • sorry again for the second post, this thing is whacked today.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    It happened to me too.

    I remember seeing your first post on(I think) the main page where it says ''recent comments'', but went into the thread and it wasn't there. I guess they all show up eventually.

  • A topic about flops without mention of Carlos Boozer?

  • In reply to Vic Nardozza:

    I think the difference is that with a 'flop', you're actually trying to draw a foul on the opponent; which while morally suspect, results in a positive for your team if successful.

    The Booz Cruise just does it to get out of the way as not to be posterized.

  • As has been mentioned, this stupid sliding in front of players who have just taken off or commited to it has to stop. It's such a stupid, dangerous play where someone could get seriously injured tumbling over the guy sliding in. And those players aren't even really set, they often look like they're barely able to stand up because they're so off balance due to hurrying over to undercut the other guy. Those should be a blocking foul every time.

  • I had assumed the rule was for both offense and defense and that once the NBA realized Wade was not actually very good, they'd stop enforcing the new rule.

    I've also been pointing out to all the casual NBA fans I know that the NBA regularly addresses flopping and nothing changes.

  • I agree that the charging calls are becoming ridiculous, they should only be called when the offensive player runs over a defender on purpose.

    To touch on something you mentioned about Thibodeau not paying enough attention to offense. I don't know if it was RW or somebody who mentioned the idea of an offensive coordinater....a "mike tice to lovie smith" type deal. The Bulls look lost and many of their sets end up being a turnover or a brick jumper that was forced up. Nate Robinson and Belinelli are not bad offensive players, they should not be struggling this bad and Deng's shooting percentage over the last few years along with Derrick's has not been great. Maybe it is time to get an offensive coordinater to help Thibodeau out

  • Announcers love to talk about it but NBA refs don't give a damn about players feet being set. It's about if the defender has established his position. It's hard as hell to call correctly but the feet being set thing don't matter at all

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