Would you ever be okay with Derrick wanting out?

Derrick Rose posted on his twitter "Chi town till I die!", and it got me to thinking, is Derrick Rose a lifetime Bull? What if the organization continues to take a profit first, win second mentality to the stadium for the next five seasons. Will Derrick still want to stick around? Would you blame him if he didn't?

The Bulls most famously dipped a toe into the luxury tax (for now) for the first time this season. They also intentionally hard capped themselves unnecessarily in the process by signing Kirk to over the MMLE without using a sign and trade. They did gain a trade exception in this case, but they seem highly, highly unlikely to use it.

They can't use the trade exception this year due to the hard cap they are under. The new sign and trade rules which go into effect next year make it unlikely that they'll be able to use it in a sign and trade [since they'll still be a tax paying team]. They refused to make bad salary + prospects for financial relief trades this summer that it would allow during the draft [the only other plausible use]. While it's a nice piece of flexibility, it's one the Bulls don't seem likely to use.

While it sucks, my belief is they hard capped themselves on purpose as an excuse not to let salary creep up. Perhaps they truly wanted the flexibility of the TPE next summer, but the flexibility is fairly minor at this point unless they have a change of heart and decide to ramp up finances while paying for mid level style players.

All in all, there's little reason to believe the Bulls will ever open the purse strings. Without doing so, there's little reason to believe they'll ever top the Miami Heat [though to be fair it'd only raises the odds a little, but still leaves them pretty low]. However, at some point, if you're Derrick Rose, there has to come a point where you stop and say "WTF?".

Derrick Rose is a dream come true for this organization and for the fans. The home town kid with attitude we all can get behind; hard working, humble, awesome talent, loyal to the city, and truly happy/proud to be a Bull. It'd be impossible to craft a better person to fill the role of Bulls superstar. It's like LeBron in Cleveland if you remove the fact that LeBron's an ass hat.

However, at some point, much like LeBron decided he had to leave Cleveland [don't blame him] to play with better players to win a ring [don't blame him], you wonder if Derrick Rose will reach this same conclusion. Will his desire to become a champion outweigh his loyalty to the city if the Bulls fail to surround him with a championship caliber cast?

If it does will you blame him? This isn't to say there's any scenario where I'd be happy that Derrick Rose left the Bulls. However, at some point, if the Bulls can't make the situation better, I'd get it. If the Bulls continue to play small market basketball with their finances while raking in unbelievable profit levels, then I can't be mad if he leaves.

The franchise has an obligation to want to win as bad as Derrick does, and while I think everyone involved below ownership feels that way, there's no commitment at the top. Commitment to winning doesn't mention the luxury tax. It doesn't ask the question whether a player helps the team win enough to be worth paying, only whether it helps the team win.

It's enough to make one wish the NBA was successful in putting in a hard cap, because then the Bulls would legitimately have no option to spend more and the fact that ownership doesn't care about winning as much as any other big market or good team wouldn't be thrown in our faces. The maniacal commitment to the bottom line wouldn't look so maniacal because it'd no longer be a choice.

However, for now, we can still see that the Bulls will look to field the best team for the money not the best team overall, and if Derrick Rose leaves one day, I'll be sad, very sad, but I won't hold it against him. Not unless he gets the same organizational commitment to winning that he gives.

Filed under: Management

Tags: chicago bulls, derrick rose, nba



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  • I wouldn't hold it against him, and to be honest, I'm not even sure how disappointed I'd be.

    I've always been a Bulls fan, and I always will be. But a few things have happened to me over the years. I've become a huge Derrick Rose fan, and I've come to really despise the way the org operates.

    Therefore, if the org kept putting the bottom line first, and taking this casual approach toward winning (never any urgency at all), I would have no problem with Derrick seeking out greener pastures, and I would probably become a fan of whatever team he ends up on (while maintaining my Bulls fandom).

    Also, a big part of me would enjoy the huge backlash the org would feel from something like that. Let's be honest, they never deserved Derrick Rose in the first place.

    Their cautious approach and thriftiness had them smack in the middle of basketball hell, which is exactly where they deserved to be, before they lucked out in the lottery.

    Obviously I hope it doesn't get to that point with Rose. It's not like I'm hoping he leaves, but I can certainly see why he might want to, eventually.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    Agreed. Excellent post, well said.

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    If Jerry Reinsdorf and company continue to prove they don't care about winning, absolutely not. Derrick wants to win and as of right now the Bulls organization hasn't shown that same commitment.

  • Agree with the folks above. Infact I'd probably just root for the team Rose was on. I've become so very disenfranchised about the Bulls ownership, that I imagine that If things got so bad that Rose felt he had to leave, I would probably be feeling the same way, and jump ship too. I don't know, maybe not- fandom is quite different than being a player- hell I've stuck with the Bears all these years, and I'm way more of a Bulls fan.

  • I like Derrick, that being said, I would support a move for him, I would even help him pack, If Dumpsdork wont loosen up, and put some $ into winning.I would feel horrible that a good kid like derrick was wasting his talent here. Rose and Thibs to LA, probably already in the works. I have been a Bulls fan for a long time, my son has always told me I was in denial about the tight wad Dumpsdork, and his love for Baseball. He was right, i will keep watching and hoping I out live the selfish, lucky, @#%$%^&&%%&^, as in landing Jordon, Baseball loving idiot!

  • Agreed with the comments and your column Doug! We didn't deserve Derrick Rose the perfect guy in all his qualities to just win the lottery so stacked against us but maybe God saw fit or more believable Stern and Co made it happen so we the 3rd largest market got a home town super star!
    I dispise the cheap Bulls organization, especially since they are raking in so much $! I'm an Accountant and understand how important the bottom line is, but when you are making so much $ and have years after the dominance we had with Jordan and company...now you have a local super star in Rose...you look to win! That to me starts 1st with signing Thibs long term because that isn't a salary cap situation and he has proven his 1st 2 yrs as a coach is one of the elite coaches taking a bunch of guys that don't individually possess great defensive presence and combining them to be the best in the NBA during the regular season....and to do it with significant injuries to key players over long stretches of the season! It's simply amazing! In life you have to pick your battles and the front office is making it clear that they want Derrick to take his time coming back and it will not be the Bulls year to win this coming season, but if they don't show some guts and build a team in 2013-2014 to win it all even against the All-Mighty Heat, OKC, Lakers, etc...then how can you expect us fans to watch the product they put out on the floor? Heck the Bucks up the road from us pulled alot of moves to better themselves even trading their franchise player Bogut for Ellis and a committee of big men.
    OKC, Memphis, Minny, Milwaukee, even Sacramento with the glooming relocation put fun young teams together!
    Well maybe we will be so bad we can amnesty Boozer and get a high draft pick SG for 2013-2014. The future isn't that bright in Bullsland unfortunately! :-(

  • Articles like this make me wish I was oblivious to the "business side" of things. When you break down just how uncommitted to winning that Jerry/ownership is, it makes me question my fandom (until there's an ownership change of course). It's hard to get on board with a team when the most important personnel (ownership) of the team aren't committed to winning as much as other team's most important personnel.

    Or, I can choose to have wishful thinking and still believe that if we did make the finals this past year, or at least gave the Heat a good 6 or 7 game series, that we would have gone into the tax seeing as though we'd be a legit contender.

  • I don't think I would blame Derrick, either. I think it would depend on the situation though. I was furious at Lebron for teaming up with the superfriends for a team, but I don't see Derrick doing that. I have also become pretty disenfranchised with the Bulls FO and if they don't make some moves soon, it'll be obvious they don't care about winning. This has been Rose era 1.0, and it's over. 2.0 should be the next couple years, but if the FO hasn't done it by then, if I'm Rose, I'm looking elsewhere. I hope I'm completely wrong though and the Bulls reboot well enough to be title contenders again.

  • If Rose ever wants out then no, I'm not OK with it, because it represents a huge failure of forward planning. If the org doesn't think they can win in the next couple of years then they should be looking to trade him right now rather than get 10 cents on the dollar Dwight Howard style down the line.

  • I pretty much agree with everybody else above. I have never wished for an ownership change as much as I do with the Bulls and I honestly wish Derrick would take a more all in or I'm gone approach publicly with the Org. As a matter of fact I was wishing the other day that Derrick would publicly voice his support of Thibs getting a new contract to help get that done but I digress. If Derrick chooses to ever leave for an organization that actually cares about winning My fandom goes with him. I would even go as far as to say as much as I dislike Lebron if Derrick choose to go team up with him for a run I would support that team 100% and I HATE HATE HATE Lebron. That is how much I despise how the Org. places almost no effort behind winning. I've been saying since half way through Derrick's 3rd season that if we win it will be on the will of Derrick and inspite of anything the Org has done to surround him with winning tallent. But as long as there are casual fans who continue to support the team what the hardcore faithful thinks doesn't matter.

  • All the posts above, save one, and Doug's article are a big reason why I enjoy this site. We want to see the Bulls run properly as in rewarding loyal fans by propelling a superstar like Derrick Rose with an organizational comittment to winning(a championship).

    Yes as good fans we care about Derrick's best interests outside are own. It's not just 'here we are now, entertain us.' We want to see him get what he wants which is a championship even if it means he has to leave our team/city. That's what class and true friendship is all about. And in some sense we feel like our sports heros who make us happy and in some ways fulfilled are our friends. And it reflects well on all of us Doug included..

    Unfortunately Derrick is tied to a penny pinching franchise with an apathetic owner who has told his cash cow home town hero and cash cow fans essentially, 'Hey look, I appreciate the obscene profits and all, but I gotta tell ya, relative to my true passion the Chicago White Sox, you guys(Bulls fans) are an afterthought.'

    That said, it doesn't help put any pressure on Reinsdorf when D-Rose twitters 'Chi town till I die.' No Derrick, that while a nice sentiment, it really doesn't help an apathetic taking you for granted situation by you essentially signaling, "Hey Bulls Organization, you got me."

    Nobody is perfect and that includes Derrick Rose. While we are all glad Rose is humble and a stud competitor and genuinely nice young man, that doesn't mean he has to be completely apolitical. Sure you don't want another Dwight Howard or LeBron who while deservedly can go pursue a championship elsewhere nonetheless treated their fans like shitbags; the same fans who made them unfathomably rich.

    However, we don't have to be pacifists to be classy and caring of others. There is not a fan here on the above posts who would begrudge Derrick putting some kind of pressure on ownership to do better. And if he doesn't well in a sense he does enable Reinsdorf's cheap ass sandbagging of himself and Bulls fans.

    It's not Derrick's fault he was drafted by a greedy slob of an owner. And he's a good guy we can all root for whether he becomes proactive or not. But for his sake and Bulls fans I hope he does at some point in the not too distant future if this chincy ass shit continues which we have no reason to believe it won't take some kind of a stand about making moves obviously to stay on the cheap.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Yes. This is the other side of the coin. In the end, Derrick Rose will also be held accountable for his ability to 'will' a championship in Chicago, despite the deplorable front office. There are many recent examples of superstar's direct collaboration with ownership/management, and other players, resulting in a championship.
    So if Rose leaves and fans start asking themselves 'did he do enough 'off the court''?, then you can still see the possibility for a jilted fan base, regardless.

  • unfortunately its our curse. We have the best fan base in the NBA and an ownership group that values max profits over winning. Most NBA owners have made their fortunes in other businesses and owning an NBA team is their hobby/love. With Reinsdorf, he has made much of his fortunte from the profits of the Chicago Bulls. I remember seeing a documentary where Reinsdorf said that he knew the White Sox weren't a profit maker when he bought them and he claims to break even on the Sox but he loves baseball......ITS RELIGION...basketball well thats a business, nothing personal.

  • For those of you who are not all that upset that we lost Asik, and/or just don't get how much of a difference maker he was.

    From ESPN insider

    "Last season, Miami scored 82.3 points per 100 possessions against the Bulls with Asik on the court, and 102.8 without him. The season before, those numbers were 78.7 and 109.4 in the regular season. This is what Nazr Mohammed has to live up to."

    20-30 points, that pretty much makes him more valuable than any Bull other than Rose. It is almost certainly the difference between winning and losing in any close game.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Yes Asik was great at defending the paint against penetrating guards but he usually got torched by sharp shooting bigs like we saw last year against the sixers. Noah is the better overall player but losing him for nothing sucks because he defintely could of netted a late lottery pick for sure. I understand they were going "all in" in trying to win a championship last year but they can't blunder on the Gibson situation.......Gibson being the best defender since he can guard on the perimeter and interior. I don't see Gibson taking anything less than 10 million a year, maybe he takes 9 but nothing lower. He's one of the best energy-defensive players in the league.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Interesting observation, but how much of the time did Asik play against all of the big 3? He got a sizeable chunk of time in the 2nd quarter, when most likely Wade was off the resting.

    That being said, I am very worried that losing Asik is going to be a very costly blow...

    We have made one of our primary strengths, a weakness. We can no longer battle size with size. Noah does not defend Dwight well - it is a good thing that he is on the west coast now.

  • The bigger question is, will injuries make this a moot point 5 years from now.

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    I'd rather the bulls lose as many games as possible this year. I would suggest they get lottery pick. I'm a bulls fan, but a derrick rose fan most of all. Let him test and rebuild for the future, bringing him back next season isn't going to do any good for the team. It would only do good for ownership, and let's face it, they are a bunch of Jews. I don't want to be racist, but they are cheap as hell. To be honest I wish Jerry would Sell the team. He's has no passion or love for basketball, he only looks at it as a business. He loves baseball and he should stick to that, he made enough with the bulls. I wish we had an owner like Mark Cuban, than we would actually go places. Jerry is just one lucky son of a bitch.

  • This is a bunch of b.s., people would be really pissed off. Maybe if D Rose was all the stuff we love about him without all the chicago love and identity that he professes all the time, I would understand. But I don't think he meant "chi town till i die, unless jerry don't start paying more tax $$!!!" If he went ring chasing, he'd show a total lack of the character that he's built and that we love. F the that, he'd be disowned.

  • I would DEFINITELY be ok with Rose leaving the Bulls. I've been saying this about Rose leaving the team every since the off season started and no major moves being made by the WHACK ass owner and management. This Bulls team is going no where over the next five years cause there no more good star players in the league. Doug, you and I have been back and fourth on this in the past about the Bulls being a mediocre team, the season hasn't started yet and who knows how this Bulls team will play together barring any other injuries to key players but on paper this Bulls team looks mediocre to me even when Rose comes back. He can't continue to carry the the hopes and dreams for a Bulls championship by himself. He needs help from another star player or a group of really good players that can improve the Bulls offensive problems. But again, I would not be mad if Rose decided to leave when his contract is up cause right now I just don't see them winning a title over the next five years cause of too many other good team in the league that makes bold moves to improve their respective teams. OKC, Lakers, the Knicks, the Sixers the Heat, hell even the Nets and Clippers are making bold moves. Point is the Bulls are far behind as far as talent goes against these teams and a title is not in the picture for the Bulls cause star players are not in the league anymore, their all on the teams that I mentioned earlier.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    And as long as the owner who owns the Bulls now is in charge and his passion is for baseball and not basketball as he has proclaimed, this Bulls team is going nowhere. And no offense to anyone but he's an old white guy that loves baseball, that's not good for the future of the Bulls. He was much younger when Jordan won the Bulls six championships. The support for the Bulls as an organization needs to fade fast. The support need to be for the coach and the players. I've said before that the support for this team shouldn't come from selling out the UC but support the team on blogs like this one and at away games if possible for fans and of course on television.

  • You guys have the nerve to be coming down on the owner of the Bulls when you hate your own players.
    Joakim Noah is a good example, you all stood silent when Bill Russell paid a great compliment to Noah, but you hate him so much, you rather not comment at all. This is the sort of stuff you associate with PSYCHOS, and the two Bulls blogs are loaded with them.

  • I'd sure love to see MJ bring Charlotte franchise to Chicago. That would be the fastest way to get Reinsdorf's attention.

  • I would understand Rose wanting to leave and feel confident he wouldn't shove it in our face LeBron style. I don't see management or ownership fielding any serious contenders in the near future due to a combination of incompetence and stinginess. It would almost be worse to see Rose resign knowing it would mean no championships for him. He is such a good guy I would rather see him get a ring with another team than never and stay a career Bull. Even MJ couldn't win it by himself.

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