Offense wins championships, at least against Miami

The Bulls have been rolling with many of the traditional strengths that translate to great playoff success. While people have complained about the way the Bulls are built, defense, rebounding, and isolation scoring are traits that almost always translate to winning playoff basketball while fast pace offense frequently falls apart.

Chicago has been the best in two of those three categories with Derrick Rose a dynamic isolation scorer in the third. However, watching the Miami Heat lose last year to the Mavericks and game one this year to the Thunder, it shows what many Bulls fans have felt obvious for quite some time.

The Bulls simply don't have enough scoring.

Teams aren't beating Miami because they lock them down at the end of games. Teams beat Miami because Miami can't stop them at the other end either. In the long run, trying to shut down LeBron and Wade might be a losing proposition regardless of how good your team defense is. Those players are simply too good to be stopped consistently at the end of games.

However, if your team has players who Miami can't stop either and can roll out better depth than you have a pretty good chance. The Bulls have many of those pieces in place now. They're missing that secondary scorer. The one who can step up, create his shot, and stop Miami from double or triple teaming Rose every play.

Not only are the missing that player, but they have no clear path towards getting him. There might be 20 players in the NBA that could provide the type of shot creation the Bulls need, and teams aren't likely to give them up.

Last night was a beautiful basketball game to watch. The Heat went on a nice offensive run to attempt to narrow the lead scoring on virtually every possession for a stretch near the end of the game. Unfortunately for them, the Thunder also scored on virtually every possession. Then the Miami run ended first.

The bad news for Bulls fans is that we've been so focused on defeating the Heat that we haven't paid much attention to a Thunder team that looks like it would crush Chicago in a finals match up. The Bulls would run into the same problem as Miami in that while they can defend, the Thunder can score through great defenses, and the Bulls don't have the personnel to consistently score with them.

The old adage might be that defense wins championships, but the truth is two way players win championships. You need greatness on both ends of the floor, and Chicago is only great on one end of the floor while looking to shed salary rather than add pieces. It's going to take quite a bit of luck on top of great management to get the players to go from where Chicago is now to holding the trophy.


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  • Yup can't have all defensive players who can't shoot or make free throws. The Thunder are also the #1 free throw shooting team. Thats what happens when you let Thibs have too much control over personal. We get players like JL3 and Scal, Bogans or whatever. I also think the key to the Thunder is they have 3 players with that crazy I'm gonna shoot no matter what gene in the big moments. Durant, Westbrook and Harden are not scared to shoot. I agree and always have you need two way players. It's fucking common sense. Paxson needs to do a better job of finding them I know it's not easy but hey thats his job.

  • In reply to SoulEater7:


    Having effort, hustle, hardworkers, and choir boys is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but at some point, if you want to win a title, you're going to need Talent.

  • In reply to SoulEater7:

    Which players in the Scal/JL3/Bogans role (ie veterans signed for under 2 million dollars a year) are lighting it up on offense for the Thunder?

    Thibodeau finding value at guys who are available for nothing should be viewed as an asset not a negative.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Thibs wanted Boozer too.

  • This reflects a lot of my thoughts as well. I'm not even worried about the Heat anymore provided that Wade continues his decline, Spolestra is still their coach, and the Heat continue to lack interior toughness.

    The Thunder really do look scary, although I'd like to believe that we wouldn't get "crushed" by them. Sure, we would probably be the underdogs against them in the finals, but I imagine we'd be better equipped to slow them down and force them to rely on perimeter shots. Plus, Rose has had success against the Thunder in the past.

    Considering the new CBA and cap/luxury tax rules, what are the chances that the Thunder actually keep their core together for the long haul? Ibaka and Harden will be due for large extensions sooner or later.

  • In reply to HINrichPolice:

    I think the Thunder will have a rough time keeping the team together. As will Miami. We're also fighting the same battle and will likely lose our role players too.

  • This is what I have been trying to say for the last couple years guys, the Bulls need more offensive punch in order to beat Miami. It's never been nothing against the Bulls as a team or the defense that they play, and they are a great defensive team, but the Bulls offensive has stunk over the last 2 years and they're going to have to address the problem if they ever want to beat the Heat.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I've always agreed with this general thought. I just haven't seen a viable solution to the problem yet.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Is Noah's offensive game beyond improvement? Can he develop the SkyHook? There was a moment prior to his injuries the year before last that Jokim showed some scoring.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    At some point is every NBA player's career, they hit their ceiling development-wise.

    That's not to say their Point and rebounding averages can't go up, but their 'game' is what it is.

    Guys like Chandler and Camby (players Noah is often compared to) have been what they are for the past 10 years.

    Could Noah's offensive game improve, could he learn the skyhook? Absolutely, and that's what he and we are hoping he does. But at 27yrs old going on 28yrs old, you can usually presume players are what they are.

  • In reply to Waldock:

    Noah can make incremental improvements to his game, but he's never going to be the guy who provides the offense the Bulls need as a secondary option.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    exactly, you and me have been trying to make people understand since 2010 that the bulls are short on the offensive end !!

  • I enjoyed your idea of buying picks. I feel the place to start would be dallas. They are looking to dump Marion and they hold the #17 pick. a package of Korver and Brewer's non - guaranteed salaries can net Marion and pick 17. If you combine that with the suggested deal (if somehow possible) of deng for calderon and pick 7, the bulls have some real building blocks. Other possible options for buying picks include watson to OKC for their pick 28 and thabo as they want to shed salary to keep harden, maynor and/or Ibaka. If they make those deals and can draft Barnes, Rivers, Jenkins and Jeff Taylor then they have a few wildcards who can truly hit it big and a future core of Rose, Noah, Gibson, Asik, Mirotic, Barnes Rivers. I see this as the optimal situation that allows us to compete this year and be greatly improved next year. With the amnesty clause used on boozer following next season, this works economically as well.

  • In reply to AlanJ:

    The Dallas option is probably a good one. I doubt OKC is shedding Thabo. He doesn't make enough and provides great value for what he is paid.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    agreed that thabo is a bargain, but his salary + the money paid to a first rounder (5M) could very well be the difference between keeping ibaka or loosing him once harden is given the max.

  • In reply to AlanJ:

    DAL is looking to dump Marion? Umm...I don't think so. Maybe 2 years ago, they were looking to dump him, but if they're looking to compete for a title now, keeping Marion is the smart thing to do.

    At this point, he has more value than Deng, because he has less years, less salary (per year), and he's still a solid 2-way player.

    Thabo is making $3.9 for 2 more years after this season is over. Ibaka and Harden don't require payraises until 2 years from now. They do not need to move him, but we understand what you're trying to some picks.

    And finally, when thinking about drafting guys, you just have to play it conservative and presume they will be drafted higher than you think they are.

    Like for instance, CLE has been rumored to take Barnes with the 4th pick. SAC has been reported to not want Drummond and will take Barnes if he's available. GSW needs a SF and if can't get a trade for one, will pick Barnes if he's still there. That means no Barnes for the 8th pick.

    Rivers cancelled all his combine workouts because most believe he has a promise from a team in the early teens. Most believe it's the Suns (who sit at 13). But even if that's not the case, you have to think Rivers cancelled all his workouts because somebody wants him early enough for him to do so.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Is Dallas looking to win now? Kind of depends what the rest of their summer brings I suppose. Of course, even if they are looking to rebuild, trading away Marion with a pick doesn't do much for them except save Cuban cash, and he's never appeared that attached to his cash when it comes to improving his team.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Dallas has been thought to be in salary dump mode(Marion) in order to clear the absolute max cap space for this summer in order to pursue both Williams and Howard. In light of Howard opting in for one more year they may alter their strategy, however, they do have to clear enough cap space this summer to offer Williams the max, while positioning themselves to either trade for Howard, or have max cap space again next summer to make a max offer to Howard next summer.

  • I saw one of your twitter followers asked about giving harden a max deal by amnestying boozer. this would obviously not work because we would not be under the cap far enough, if at all. If the bulls move Deng for a pick as you have suggested and give up on all expiring contracts, would that not give the bulls enough space to offer harden a max deal? Assuming Asik gets 5M, that leaves the bulls at appx 42M before factoring in draft picks.

  • In reply to AlanJ:

    It'd be close, but I doubt anyone is taking on Deng for no salary whatsoever.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    TOR could.

    At most the Bulls would just have to take back a cheap contract like Bayless or Ed Davis, and then the Raptors should have close to $8mil to offer Nash (which is why they're looking for a SF).

    Bulls would then have a little more than $40mil in payroll.

    But none of this really matters. OKC doesn't have to extend Harden or Ibaka until 2013-14, when they're RFAs.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Toronto supposedly really wants out from under Calderon's contract($11 million), although with only this year left, I don't really see why.

    Deng for Calderon and the #8 pick would make sense, although Toronto has no other viable starting point guard on their roster. Maybe the Bulls pick up Watson's option and send him to the Raps in the deal and take back the rights to Bayless.

  • In reply to AlanJ:

    Hardin is not on the market this summer, and will only be a restricted free agent next summer. OKC has $50-$55 million committed for the 2013-14 so they can match Hardin before going into tax territory, but not both Hardin and Ibaka, if Hardin indeed is/becomes a max player.

  • The state of the NBA in some 2-3 years will be something to behold . Max contracts, mid level and everything in between will be scaled back and what you see for now will be a thing of the past .

    OKC ,Miami, and others with a big 3 will have to pony up the entire farm and true depth will be a casualty . These haves will soon be penalized for success and we will overall have a lesser product to enjoy due to parity and the business aspect of being in business .

    What Im trying to say is that the type of teams you saw last night are about die hard foe the next 5-6 years until this current CBA is taken a hard look at. Max contracts kept their high ceilings and everything else shrank . The Derrick Rose rule fucked us over royally and the truth is none of the players will give money up to be part of the team .

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:

    I think you will see more talent spread out in the new NBA, but I also think that's a good thing. Teams will be more about getting the right role players and more cities having a star or maybe two, but no one will be able to support three stars for an extended period of time.

    Because of that, it's unlikely any team will ever make a run like the 90s Bulls again in the NBA. It will be just too difficult to keep the talent together.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Looking back those were really different times.

    Pippen signed one of the dumbest long term contracts in history right before the dynasty run started, to the Bulls benefit. Pippen only made $3+ million during the entire championship run, and Jordan didn't make squat until the second 3 peat.

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:

    Sorry - not done.. The players work hard for that payday and when the time comes they expect loyalty for loyalty (not charity). You will see in 2 yrs when this monstrous luxury tax comes into play and teams will be unable to keep all their stars due to parity .

    In a way Miami is to blame for this shitstorm taking place. If they didn't collude to form "THE SUPERFRIENDS" widening the perception of haves and havenots , maybe we wouldn't have to brace for whats getting ready to happen .

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:

    I think the idea of the new semi hard cap is a good thing. It will make the league more competitive and less likely to give monster contracts to borderline talents which dillutes the talent pool IMO as they have garuanteed contracts. I think this will make for a better product just like it has in Football. Does it hurt the Bull in the short term definately but that is what happens when you over pay your players and that hurts them cap wise with or without the new CBA rules.

  • LeBron may have been right when he was stating how many championships he would win as a member of the Heat .... But instead of counting up he should have counted down - not 4, not 3, not 2, not 1....:-)

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:


  • with the way the punitive cap system is set up, you better hope your second and third highest paid players can both go off for 30 points like we see with the big 3 of both OKC and Miami. The problem with the Bulls is Boozer and Deng are both mediocre on offense, good for what? 15 points a game now? and both on the decline offensively. You have to be smart with your money and don't sign someone as a knee jerk reaction like they did with Boozer because they didn't want to come out empy handed and red faced in the 2010 pat riley derby. They should trade Deng for a high lottery and amnesty boozer by the end of next season. Give Rose at least one dynamic scoring wing that can handle the rock. Durant has Westbrook, James has Wade and Rose has worn down legs full of bruises. The front office has to get it right and land Beal or Barnes or trade for Eric Gordon. Reconfigure this team to address the athleticism, ball handling and scoring deficiencies on the perimeter.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    With the amnesty provision, signing Boozer hasn't really hurt them from a cap perspective. What if they didn't sign Boozer. What else would they really be able to do right now? Nothing. They'd not have a bad contract, and they could save some money, but they would spend the money on extra role players or not spend it at all. Not having Boozer wouldn't allow us to solve our problem of getting a second star player.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    Thank you, Noah, Asik and Taj are not the problem.

    Deng and boozer are. Your second and third scorers need to be a lot better and more consistent than they are, and/or make a lot less money.

    Durrant and Westbrook, clearly 1 and 1A type players will make $31 million next season, Deng and Boozer, who are not even 2 and 3 type players(more likely 3 and 4) will make over $28 million.

    The Thunder have been both good and lucky, the Bulls have been neither.

  • No doubt the Bulls' situation is a big challenge, but maybe it will force the FO to make the changes that should have been made before. We all have known and the FO should have known that the Bulls have to have another star. So, where is he? On another team! Or maybe in college or in Europe.

    Talent evaluation has been both a strength and a weakness. When drafting, the Bulls have done a fairly good job of getting value. However, with FAs they have done poorly. Ditto with overvaluing their own players and undervaluing top line players they could have gotten. This pattern has actually gone on for quite a while, back to when they could have had Gasol or Garnett and instead got Ben Wallace, and more recently when they could have had Carmelo and instead got Boozer.

    What now?
    1) Load up with draft picks and get some dynamic, young , cheap players on the team. Maybe one will become a star, others solid starters. Or,
    2) Trade for a star or two. What would NJ take for D Williams? He's a UFA, so NJ should be willing to do an S&T rather than letting him just walk. Would NJ take, for example, Deng, Hamilton, pieces, plus a couple of #1 picks? Maybe the Charlotte pick?
    Of course, the FA would have to sell Williams on signing here. Would he sign for 3 years if he thought D Howard was coming?
    Then what would it take to get D Howard? What about Noah, Mirotic, and pieces? Even if the Bulls threw in Asik and Gibson to make these 2 deals, it would be worth it. Let's see some creativity in the FO.
    Howard would need to sign for 2 extra years, so the Bulls would have Rose, Williams, and Howard for the next 3 seasons. That ought to win something!
    3) Some combo of 1) and 2)

  • Anybody have ESPN Insider? I don't have access, but it looks like they've posted a rumor about a possible Kings-Bulls trade...Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick for Joakim Noah.

  • In reply to brad73:

    Nevermind...upon closer examination, it's a trade IDEA. Jerks.

  • In reply to brad73:

    I don't get the urge to trade Noah for a pick. Bigs are still a valuable commodity (look at DeAndre Jordan's offer sheet if you don't believe it), and Noah is top 5 at his position. Why give that up for a guy whose game has stagnated and an unknown? Of the Bulls' big contracts, Jo's is the best value and I'm not sure Asik can replace him as a starter due to stamina and fouls. The best way forward is to build around Rose and Noah long term .

  • In reply to Tyler Soze:

    It's not the 'urge' to trade him, it's just common sense that either him or Deng have the most trade value, moreso Noah.

    Bulls are locked up with about $60+mil in payroll for the next 2 years.

    Rose is staying put.

    If you want to believe fans, Boozer can't be moved.

    People like Deng, but he'll be injured for the 1st half of next season, and the following year, he'll be on the last year of his deal.

    Noah is locked in at a great price for the next 4 years, and he's a Big.

    Personally, I think SAC would take Noah for Tyreke+5th, but if I'm the Bulls, I'm looking to move Deng before I move Noah.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    IF you believe that both Sacto and Portland are looking for a legitimate center, then the Bulls could probably land the 5th or 6th pick for Asik, or at worst Asik and another minor peice. But who do we take at 5 or 6 that makes us that much better.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I don't think we could get a 5th or 6th pick for Asik. Maybe POR's 11th or at best NOH's 10th (but even they are looking to dump Ariza or Okafor's contract with that pick).

    As far as 5th or 6th, Bulls are seriously looking to take Barnes (I'm assuming because they know Davis, MKG, Robinson, and Beal will be off the boards).

    When teams trade proven NBA players (solid, good, or very good) for draft picks, they aren't doing it to get better, they're doing it to 1) save money, 2) get younger, and 3) plan for the future.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Both Sacto and Portland would be trading the pick in lieu of taking Andre Drummon, another one of those boom or bust guys. With Asik, they already know exactly what they are getting(defense and rebounding) and they both already have an established scoring big(Cousins and Aldridge). Given the uncertainty of the draft, Asik is a conservative solid move which makes them better right now.

    I agree with your points 1,2,and 3, but they apply to to Deng much more so than Noah, which is why I am totally in favor of moving Deng, and not so much in favor of Noah.

    There is a greater than 50% chance that Barnes is gone by the 4rth pick(Cleveland is said to be in love with him since last years draft), and people say that his upside is between somewhere Luol Deng and Glen Rice.

    I am not sold that Barnes will be all that in the NBA. I suppose he can be another of those Carolina guys who turns out to be a better pro than college player, or he could be a semi bust. I would trade Deng for him, but not Noah, unless you can guarantee me that he will indeed be a combo of Deng and Glen Rice.

  • "It's going to take quite a bit of luck on top of great management to get the players from where Chicago is now to holding the trophy."

    Translation: It's a long way to Tiporary(geez expression meaning we're a long way away right now from a championship).

    People argued about whether the Bulls were a championship caliber team. It's hard to see anyone now not thinking the Bulls offensively, even completely heathty, are no where near there.

    We talked about a second scorer to compete for the title. Answer: 34 year old geez in major decline Richard Rip(ped with injuries) Hamilton. That's not saying they could have done better. However, the perception that he could even remotely be "the answer" including by myself was rdiculous.

    The Thunder, who we were supposedly going to compete with in the Finals, have not two, but three terriric scorers. Their third wheel James Harden, with 17ppg he's shooting an astounding .491! There's a reason this guy was what the No.3 pick in the draft?

    Harden, Westbrook, Durant all top four lottery picks. Ray Allen fifth pick, Garnett fifth pick, Pierce was No.10, but that's still upper lottery. Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Grant, Duncan all dynasty teams or could have beens if put together sooner. Even "non star" Detroit Billups No.3 and Hamilton No. 7 lottery picks.

    If the Bulls hope to make a move, they likely will need to do it through the draft and even more likely through the lottery. Can they swing a top ten or top five pick this year? Trade Omer, No! You can't trade Taj! News: you want a shot at a game changer, then you HAVE to(Gar/Pax) trade some pieces to not insult people, and actually get there. Think about it. The idea is to take lesser chips No. 26 pick Taj and No. 36 Omer Asik, and CASH THEM IN(sorry all caps but god damn it).

    So either the Bulls make a move, take a chance, actually part with some serious value for game changers aka lottery picks, or likely they are screwed. Westbrook, Harden, Durant... lottery paging Westbrook, Harden, Durant.

    Side note: Wade and James are shooting a little over 70% from the line in the playoffs. And from three, James .278 and Wade .258. Harden, Durant, and Westbrook all shooting 80% to near 90%. And Harden and Durant .450! and .376 respectively from three. I just find it hard to believe OKC is not going to win this series with that kind of disparity in effiiciency. Wade and James in some sense right now strugglign with an old, injured Boston team, IMO are critically flawed despite being potent offensive weapons and solid to excellent all around players.

    And Spo(ooge) vs Scott Brooks? Please Thunder in 6.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Just having high lottery picks is not the solution in and of itself, you have to be lucky to have them at the right time, and even then you have to be lucky enough to make the right pick. Durrant over Oden, Rose over Beasely, Jordan over Sam Bowie.

    At the time of the draft nobody thought that Wade was going to be what he turned out to be, same with Westbrook, truth be told, even Jordan. Harden looks to be overperforming and is soon to be overpaid(vastly if he gets the max)

    Since the Dynasty ended the Bulls have had as many high picks as anybody, what do we have to show for it other than an injured Rose.
    Jay Williams #1, Elton Brand #1, Tyson Chandler #2, Ben Gordon #3, Tyrus Thomas and Eddy Curry #4, Marcus Fizer #5, Hinrich and Deng #7 picks, Jamal Crawford #8.

    While I am all for the Bulls being aggressive in acquiring some picks this year especially using Deng, after the #1 pick there are no guys in this draft who are surefire franchise players, so not only do we have to trade talent to get the picks we have to get lucky that the guy turns out to be the next Wade or Westbrook.

    We could probably trade, Deng, Noah, Asik and Taj and end up with a half dozen picks in the top half of the draft, what are the odds that we end up with even 4 guys who are as good as the what the 4 guys that we traded.

    The Rose injury gives us the excuse/reason to try something bold, but whatever we do, we would still need luck to be on our side.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    "The Bulls have had as many high picks as anybody, ... Jay Williams #1, Elton Brand #1, Tyson Chandler #2, Ben Gordon #3, Tyrus Thomas and Eddy Curry #4, Marcus Fizer #5, Hinrich and Deng #7 picks, Jamal Crawford #8."
    Good review, BigWay. You make a good point. High picks are rarely a lock, tho Brand and Rose and Deng all became Allstars, and Chandler, Hinrich and Crawford and even Curry all were/are good.

    This year, sinc the draft is deep, it might be better to land 4 top 20 picks than 2 lottery picks - simply playing the odds.

    So ... go for D Williams and D Howard! They can both play on both ends of the court. With Rose and Boozer, the Bulls would be unstoppaBULL.

    The FO needs to earn it's salary this summer.

  • Yep... Bulls will have to trade a core piece in order to solve their offensive woes. I understand the defense and all, but to win in todays NBA a team has to be able to score.

  • I love the Noah + 29 for Tyreke + No. 5 deal. If Sacramento will take that deal you make it in a heartbeat. I know that Omer isn't as good as Noah, but Tyreke Evans could end up being a stud, and it really starts to give the Bulls flexibility after next season when Deng and an amnestied Boozer could come off the books. Plus we keep Mirotic in that scenario... WIN WIN WIN in my book.

  • In reply to nucahx:

    Tyreke needs to be paid or you lose him for nothing next summer, and who is the guaranteed scoring stud that we get @5. Drummond could be the next Kwame Brown or Eddy Curry. Sub Deng for Noah and I am in in a heartbeat.

    We might be able to get both of Portlands picks(6&11) for either Noah or Asik, tempting, but again, who do you draft.

    I am perfectly willing to finally part ways with Deng at this point, mosting because of his contract, but Noah, Asik and Taj are a tougher call for me, with Taj being the easiest to give up, and probably the least valuable.

    Right now, I like a Deng deal, for #7 and Dorrel Wright, or #8 and Calderon, or #10 and Ariza, or #13 and Nash, or #14 & 16 and Kyle lowry.

    Lets get something done with Deng first, and see what else comes up while working on the Deng deal. Unfortunately, we are probably going to find out that the same guy who we wouldn't trade for Garnett, Gasol or Kobe is still untradeable.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    You really think we could get #6 and #11 for Asik? That is a really nice return for, what was it, 3 2nd rounders?
    I can't believe Portland would do that, but the Bulls would in a heartbeat.

    Anyway, it's good to think creatively - maybe the FO is reading this, you think?

    "Right now, I like a Deng deal, for #7 and Dorrel Wright, or #8 and Calderon, or #10 and Ariza, or #13 and Nash, or #14 & 16 and Kyle lowry."

    I doubt that Nash would work here, but the principle is valid. #14 and #16 look good!

  • "I love the Noah + 29 for Tyreke + No. 5 deal. If Sacramento will take that deal you make it in a heartbeat. I know that Omer isn't as good as Noah, but Tyreke Evans could end up being a stud, and it really starts to give the Bulls flexibility after next season when Deng and an amnestied Boozer could come off the books. Plus we keep Mirotic in that scenario... WIN WIN WIN in my book."

    Anyone not name Derrick Rose is expendable even Noah and Gibson! Even glue guy Dang...of course Boozer for some Mayo! LOL

    The Heat don't scare me much out of the East but with James and Wade you have 2 of the top 5-8 players in the league with James being #1 or close to that! OKC is a fun team to watch and I'm routing for the to beat the Heat! I have learned that it's a good idea to have a backup team to watch such as in either division, even more than 2 to keep your excitement up! The Bulls have been fun to watch, especially the last 2 years with Thibs at the helm! But we aren't going to win it all with this group! Unless someone like Durant or Lebron James goes down in a injury like Rose did!

    Tyreke is dying in Sacto and they gave away KMart2 for Tyreke to develop but what do they expect when they move him from PG to SF!!! He can dominate at PG being 6'5" being a combo guard. If he can shoot better then he is a All-Star in the making!

    I'd love to get Evans and the #5 pick for even Noah the heart of the Bulls with Rose! It will be a sad day when/if Noah leaves but we need offense and Noah doesn't bring a true offensive game since he can't create his own.

  • In reply to smiley:

    Noah's not untouchable, but you have to get something better than Tyreke for him. Evans will be good "if" he learns how to shoot; "if" his struggles are just a product of SAC's dysfunction, if if if. You don't give up an elite rebounder, defender, and passer for ifs and maybes.

  • In reply to smiley:

    As I pointed out above Evans becomes a restricted free agent in the summer of 2013, with a QO of nearly $7 million, so the only way that acquiring him really adds long term financial flexibility is if we let him walk. It does however, save us $7(Noah)-$9(Deng) million this season which would help build a better roster for this season while avoiding the tax.

    As a talent, Evans is a tough call, what is he Latrell Spreewell? At $7 million per he is an upgrade over Deng at $14 million, but what is he really going to cost in the free agent market.

    Evans is clearly a better pure scorer than Deng, and I believe that Asik can be a starter for the Bulls, so trading Noah feasible.

    If Noah is in the deal instead of Deng, I would not give up the 29th pick, I would keep it to take Miles Plumlee as our 4rth big.

    Really tough call, one that I could not make until the deal was actually on the table.

  • Too bad we can't pry Cousins away from SAC instead of Evans.

    What about Noah (C), Deng (SF), Taj (PF), and #29 for Hayes (C), Salmons (SG), and Cousins (PF), and #5? Kings get mature talent all around and get rid of two crappy contracts (Salmons, Hayes). We get the DeMonster and a top pick. We take a potential all-star wing at #5 (Beal, Lamb, Barnes). Following year we amnesty Boozer.

    No way this'll happen, but it works:

  • In reply to bzoooty:

    SAC wins that trade.

    I don't see the Bulls completely looking to rebuild, and that's what they would do with your proposed trade.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Win or lose, Sacto doesn't make that deal because of Cousins, too much upside.

  • I don't think anybody is calling for the Bulls to completely trash their defense and rebounding in return for all offense and an uptempto pace.

    There's a balance, we all get this. What people are asking for is to trim off some of the concentration on defense (maybe trading somebody...Deng) and focus a little more on the offensive side.

    One scorer (Rose) is not enough, and even if it is, maybe he wins 1 title. You can't realistically expect him to shoulder the entire offensive load on his shoulders and continue playing at the pace (he WAS at) for the next 10-12 years...what we a 'Franchise Changing Playmaker' to be.

  • People want to poo-poo this, but the Bulls are going to start shedding salary soon, whether it's this upcoming year or the following. If you trade Deng (for example) this year, you would get more value than if you did it next year.

    If the Bulls are determined to cut back on salary, why not trade him and get some decent lottery picks on the young and cheap.

    Same with Asik. I know most fans think the Bulls will resign him no matter what (because they believe everything the team sends out a press release on), but I see someone overpaying for Asik and them not matching. Trade him for a pick as well and hope that guy pans out.

    This is MY plan:

    Asik+Korver ...for... POR's 11th+Kurt Thomas

    Deng+Rip ...for... TOR's 8th+Bayless

    If Barnes is available, you take him. And then with the 11th pick, take Meyers Leonard (who has been lighting up the draft workouts, moving up the draft board, and compares himself and his motor/energy/etc to Noah).

    If Barnes is gone, maybe you have to draft Leonard with the 8th pick and then draft a 'potential' guy like Perry Jones III with the 11th.

    So now you've shed salary, have basically the same team, and have young potential guys that can grow into something.

    C. Noah (Meyers, Kurt)
    PF. Boozer (Taj)
    SF. Brewer (Barnes or PJ3)
    SG. Butler (29th Pick)
    PG. Rose (Bayless, JL3)

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    The question is, Would Asik go in the top 10 if he were in the draft? Probably not. So, do the trades!

    You are thinking creatively.

    I would like to see someone from the draft for JL3's position.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Your plan isn't completely horrible, but the Bulls would be taking a big risk and would need to get lucky with those 2 picks to end up with 2 guys who are better than Deng and Asik already are.

    You are basically trading Asik to get a draft pick to replace Asik with either Leonard or Zellar.

    I asked KEvin States a while back if any center in this draft is better than Asik right now, particularly Leonard. Asik is vastly superior on defense to anybody, and the least talented offensively. AT this point, Leonard is a pure gamble on upside, but I don't see any evidence that he is a high motor guy like Noah, or that he has that championship fire in his belly.

    Where he(and/or Zellar) are drafted is at minimum a proxy on where Asik would have been in this draft. I have seen more than one NBA anaylst suggest that Asik would be a top 10 in this draft.

    IF we did a Houston deal(for Deng) and had both 14 and 16, I might be inclined to take a shot at him. Or if we could get both Portland picks, I might like him at 11.

    Whether you give up Noah or Asik to get him, you are immediately taking a crapshoot that he is even as good as they are and not a total bust.

    The fact of the matter is that we need a major upgrade at shooting guard, small forward and power forward. Center is not a postion of need, but would become one if you trade Asik.

  • Thank you, really thank you Doog Thonus !!

    Everybody who knows me in this blog knows that I've been preaching it since summer 2010 when James joined the Heat : Bulls match their defense but don't match their offense. That's why they're better than us and why bulls will never beat the heat with the current roster.

    I told you, trade for Melo or Howard but bulls organization and their fans always overrated their players. Even Mr Happy wasn't tottaly wrong.

  • I agreee that we need a big upgrade at the secondary scorer position.

    To me the upgrade has to come at shooting guard or small forward, which is why I have been angling to make a move to get Austin Rivers.

    If we can't move Deng for a lottery pick, maybe we should try to trade for Rudy Gay or Danny Granger. We would be getting better offensive, less team defense and taking on a much bigger contract in Gay's case.

    Memphis might be open to this trade since they think that Rudy and Zbo don't fit well together, whereas Deng a more complimentary role player might fit better with him.

    Not sure that Indy is looking to go in that direction since if they move Granger, they do so in part to make room for Paul George to move to small forward.

    Has it ever been more obvious that whatever else happens Deng's time to go has come.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Danny Granger ?? I'd rather keep Deng. He disapears in playoffs just like Boozer.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Not like Loul is Mr. Clutch either. That said I wouldn't trade Deng for him as it only makes you an older team and we need to get younger... Gay has a massive contract and for that reason I wouldn't want him either.

    I could see moving Deng to pick say Harrison Barnes as you could expect similar production within 2-3 years and would add more athletic ability. Though Barnes lacks the explosive first step to blow by people he is fast just not super quick as he is stiff. Also he has been developing three point range.

    I think this is the draft to jump in and grab as many picks as you can get. Very deep should have several solid wing players throughout the first and maybe a couple in the early second.

  • In reply to Chad:

    Yeah you're right, it's the good draft to catch good players. If the bulls want to rebuild the team while waiting Rose, they'd better do it with this draft instead of the next one.

  • It's just funny to see how everybody is now suggesting to deal Noah or Deng. I remembered when people were seeing Noah is untouchable and Deng is such a solid defender. Now you have opened your eyes.

    imo, Bulls should trade Deng or Noah for either a star (great scorer) or a top 10 draft pick then sign 1 or 2 good Free Agents this offseason. They could even combine Deng and Noah to get a superstar or a top 5 draft pick.

    This team needs definitely to be rebuilt or esle we aren't going anywhere. It needs a clean-up around Rose.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    So, do you think the Bulls could get D Williams from NJ in an S&T? What might it take? Deng, Asik, pieces and the Charlotte pick? Then they could dump Korver and Lucas. Boozer would be better with Williams here.

    BTW, I agreed with you, they should have gotten Carmelo two years ago, which they may have done if they hadn't overpaid for Boozer. Overpaying comes back to bite the team.

  • In reply to rustyw:

    Yeah I agree, if D-Will is open to come to chicago, why not try him ? He could share the backcourt with Rose as SG. Deng, Noah and the Charlotte pick could work for the wizards' third pick. This way, we could draft Andre Drummond. I think that center the best player of this draft with Thomas Robinson.

  • Just remember that the Bulls traded Brand to get Chandler, traded up to get Deng. Sometimes it's not worth it. Losing Brand set the team back for years. Deng is now being considered the problem. I think there is a reason that all these teams are looking to trade away these top picks. If they thought they could get a James Harden, then they wouldn't be trading it away. It is very likely that these guys will be good players, but not stars.
    One other thing to keep in mind is that they may need to just be patient. The hype on Miritic seems to be building and building. Could he be the second star?

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    If nothing else the guy sounds like an elite shooter, 92 % from the line, 57% on 2 point field goal attempts, and 44% on 3's. Those are Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird type numbers.

  • Sorry, Mirotic.
    Read the other day that he scored something like 20 pts in about 10 minutes!

  • Something else to keep in mind is that in the last round of playoffs, the Thunder were thought to be dead by many after the first two games. If the Heat turn things around somehow (i don't think they will) and win this series, what then?
    I'm not ready to throw in the towell on this team yet. We haven't seen them together long enough to know what they can do. Rose and Hamilton looked good for the five minutes they played together. I think everyone should wait and see what they pull off with the Watson, Brewer, and Korver contracts. If they can turn them into a quality bench scorer, then that would go a long way.
    I think they could do a sign and trade of Watson and Brewer to Boston for Ray Allan. He and Hamilton can fight for the starting spot while the other scores in a reserve role. Then draft Cunningham with pick 29 to be a project player and trade Korver for a high second round pick and draft Darius Miller. I think he can produce from the start and play solid minutes behind Butler while we all wait for Deng to come back.
    PG- Rose, Hinrich(?), Lucas
    SG- Hamilton, Allan, Cunningham
    SF- Deng, Butler, Miller
    PF- Boozer, Taj, Scal
    C- Noah, Asik

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