LeBron's better than Jordan, oh wait, no he's not, but could you imagine!

I thought waking up today that I could turn on sports radio and possibly be safe from Miami sports talk.  Unfortunately, I was wrong.   On my short five minute commute to the train station I flipped on Mike and Mike in the morning just to hear about how the Heat winning the title adds interest to the NBA and how LeBron James might be better than Jordan [FWIW, both Mike's disagreed that he's presently better].    I feel sad, that I may need to write this article for the next five or six years every year.

LeBron James can not, no matter what he does, finish his career in such a way that leaves him better than Jordan. He simply can't. He's already proven that he's not better. I know this sounds absurd, but it's true.

Take a look at Jordan's record, and it is spotless. There is no taint.

1: He has the statistical dominance
2: He has the rings
3: His teams never failed because of him
4: He set a clutch performance standard so high that no one else has remotely matched it
5: He won an absurd six titles in eleven full, healthy seasons with Chicago

LeBron can match #1. His stats are at a Jordan level. They aren't computed in the exact same box, but he also has statistical dominance on a level similar to Jordan. He can eventually match #2 or perhaps surpass it. It's probably more than likely that he'll fail to match it, but he's got a better shot at six rings than anyone else in the league.

However, items #3-#5 are already out of reach.

LeBron James has lost an NBA playoff series as the favorite three times already.

His team lost a championship to a considerably worse Dallas team last year specifically because he sucked.

His Cleveland team lost to a Celtics team two years ago when he quit on them in the playoffs and was already dreaming about leaving them to get more help elsewhere [a decision which has been validated completely by winning the title this year and watching the hype machine change his narrative into possibly the greatest player to ever play the game, but this still doesn't excuse him throwing in the towel].

LeBron has regularly looked afraid to shoot at the end of games. Even in this glorious championship year there were moments in the Indiana and Boston series where he didn't appear to want the ball at the end of games, missed clutch free throws that would have iced games and generally played mentally weak in the fourth quarter [he dominated in the finals though, so it's fair to gloss over these things].

He may change the clutch narrative about himself forever going forward, but he'll never make up for what he's already failed to do in the clutch. Can you imagine anyone with any credibility being asked the question, "Game 7, NBA finals, 10 seconds left, you have the ball and are down by one, you can have any player in the history of the NBA in their prime with the ball, who you got?" and then answering "LeBron"?

The thing is, no matter what happens with LeBron, he can't take these things back. He can't get back all of the choking that Jordan never had. He can't get back the quitting on his team and his city to go join a cast of superstars and then STILL fail the next season specifically because he crapped the bed and stunk in the biggest moment. He can't.

He can't win a title in more than 50% of his full healthy seasons, not unless he wins the next nine straight.

LeBron has the full package. I think he could easily build a case over his career as the second best player to ever play the game. He'll absolutely finish with the individual accolades to do so, and if he gets a handful more rings then he'll have the hardware as well. He's the full package, the real deal, the best in the league right now by far.

However, to pass Jordan, you need near perfection, and when you add up the marks against James there's already too many to ever hit the Jordan standard regardless of what he does with the rest of his career.

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  • Doesnt Kobe Bryant factor in this equation somewhere?? Honestly, I hated the same comparisons when Jordan had less of a potent supporting cast. Fuck it where was a big 3 when Jordan and Pippen had the likes of Dennis hopsen, BisonDele(for a playoff run),and Rodney McCray? Toni Kukoc was not the alpha dog during those years( and was summarily put in his place during Dream team 1). Ron Harper was a shadow of his former thrust and was more defensive presence. Chicago didnt have the inside power game that distinctly was around then- Barkley,Olajuwon,Ewing,Malone, or even Brad Daugherty or Kevin Duckworth( there was adearth of inside players with a certain skill). we just had Jordan and Pippen, Grant or Rodman, and the rest with some hellified coaching. Our team just wanted it more, even in rematches with Utah, we wanted it more. which was a testament to MJ and a legacy that set the bar so high- LeBron put away his #23 jersey and wanted the rest of the league to do the same as well. Lets end this because 5 years ago the talk was Kobe being the AIR apparent, today its LeBron , 5 years from now its gonna be someone else ... because people have shit else to do.

  • In reply to mummuhwalde:

    Well you just named our Big 3 right there with MJ, Pippen, and then Grant or Rodman.

    'Big 3s' aren't as big as you would think . Is like Grant and Rodman, is Bosh really in the same tier as Wade and Lebron? No. Even with BOS's Big 3, is Ray Allen (who's primarily a 3 point shooter) the same player Pierce and KG were? No.

    You speak about Kobe as if he's some type of failure. Kobe is going down as the 2nd best SG in NBA history, behind ...you guessed it MJ. So I don't know why we should scrap this whole 'Air apparent' deal.

  • The above doesn't even factor in how LBJ also benefits from playing in a much more diluted league talent-wise than Jordan with the additional advantage of a much less physically oriented style. If anybody even bumps LBJ, it's a flagrant foul. The Derrick Fisher foul in game 5 is a classic example. And anybody who watched the finals knew it was over when LBJ got away with the foul on Durant at the end of game 3. Maybe Jordan got those calls when he was 36 pushing off for his last shot as a bull, but not at 27 in his prime. LBJ might be the greatest SF of all time, but he's still at least a notch below Jordan in terms being the GOAT.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    "And anybody who watched the finals knew it was over when LBJ got away with the foul on Durant at the end of game 3"

    I have to admit, I only spot checked the rest of the series after that non-call. Seemed like a fait accompli at that point.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    You're right...MJ NEVER gotten foul calls in his favor.

    LOL...I love how Bulls fans love to gloss over that fact. Does Lebron get more fouls than the rest of his peers? Sure...but MJ did too, so please, let's stop using that as an excuse.

    Diluted talent wise, I don't even know if there are stats to break it down. Every generation speaks bad about the new generation because it's not their generation. It's just what it is. I do know in the past, the league was more Big-Man dominant whereas now (probably thanks to MJ), the league is more Perimeter-Dominant.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    MJ got plenty of calls in his time (reach ins and travels usually took holidays the days he was on network TV...the final shot came at the expense of Byron Russell eating some floor). HOWEVER, he was on the receiving side plenty of times, too.

    Go watch any of the Bulls-Knicks playoff series. If you substituted the modern Heat for the Bulls in those series, Ewing, Starks, Oakley, McDaniel and Riley would have been ejected halfway through the first quarter of any of those games, and each suspended for 2 games.

    Hell, if LBJ ever took what Rodman did to Pippen, Stern would require teams to fly the flags outside the stadiums at half-mast.

    NOTE: I do not actually blame LBJ for this, he just benefits from it. I think it is a combination of product protection (stars sell, and superstars sell super well) and collectively the worst lot of refs in professional sports. If Hawk Harrelson got so worked up with the ejection, he'd go full on Scanners if they ever had him call an NBA game.

  • Don't forget about Magic, he won 5. And definatlety not the great Bill Russel. Oh yeah Bird too.

  • The only player currently in the league who has even a remote chance of surpassing Jordan is Kevin Durant. It won't happen, but unlike with Lebron it's at least possible.

    Imagine if Durant had won the championship this year. They were closer than it seems, losing very winnable matches in games 2-4 of the finals. That would've given KD a championship his 5th year in the league (vs. Jordan's 7th, or 6th if we skip the injury year). Durant already has 3 scoring titles, a FIBA Gold for a team on which he was by far the best player, and an All-Star game MVP. If they'd won this year, he'd have a Finals MVP as well. And he'll most likely get an Olympic gold in 2014, with that potentially being the last year that NBA players compete for USA in the Olympics.

    Okay, so push all that back 1 year. In theory, KD could win his first championship in 2012-13 at age 24, having improved every single year, both personally and as a team. OKC's record and playoff performance (in terms of series won) has improved each year of Durant's career. All of that plus the fact that Durant's postgame and defense are still improving.

    Although the rules of the league are more favorable for scorers now and although there are more teams (i.e. the league is more "diluted"), I don't think you can argue that the talent level right now is lower than it was in the '90s. Jordan never had a true enemy or peer. Both Lebron and Durant do. As does Rose. As do all the other historically great players currently in the NBA.

    The most substantial thing Jordan has and always will have over the current crop of superstars: he never lost an NBA finals. I'm willing to give KD one pass on that because he was so young when he first got there. Jordan also won an NCAA title, played baseball, drafted Kwame. One of those three things substantially strengthens his legacy.

    What does Durant have going for him? He's a better shooter than MJ. He's very young and very ambitious. And he's still improving.

    To reiterate: I do not think Durant will surpass MJ as the GOAT. I don't even think he'll surpass Lebron or Tim Duncan. But he's the only current player for whom GOAT status is at least--in theory--possible. And I'm curious to watch that possibility unfold or vanish over the next few years.

  • In reply to bzoooty:

    The Thunder weren't close at all to beating the Heat. You don't lose 4 straight games and call that 'close'. Sorry Bulls fans, the Bulls weren't 'close' last year.

    It's not a 'fluke' the Heat won 4 straight against us and the Thunder. You can call it whatever you want, more experience, more desperate, more skilled, more willpower...in the end, they were just that much better.

    But using the template MJ has set, KD can never be MJ either because 1) he doesn't demand the ball (people have argued RW is more of the leader on that team than KD is...they're not saying RW is the better player, just more aggressive), 2) he doesn't play defense, and 3) he's already lost in a Final (something MJ hasn't done).

    So since Lebron and KD will never match MJ, I guess we'll just have to go another 10 years to see if there's another 'Air Apparent'.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    I like the technique of putting your own words in quotations marks in order to falsely attribute them to others. I never used the word "fluke." I believe Miami outplayed OKC. But this was also tone of the closest 5-game finals series in history, and in 3 of the 4 losses OKC had a real shot to win. All things considered, I think OKC will be the better team next year if neither team makes any personnel changes (which is unlikely).

    As for whether anyone can ever surpass Jordan, you've actually unconvinced me (below). Either Durant or Lebron could, in theory, do it--though it's exceedingly unlikely.

    I think Doug drastically overestimates previous miscues. If Lebron rattles off 8 straight, as you suggested, there's no telling how much forgiveness he would encounter. His story would become one of triumph over flaws that one could easily attribute to the AAU system and the drafting of high school players.

  • While I am a big fan of Durant's, the one thing he lacks is the ability to dominate on the defensive side. With all the discussion on offensive accolades, let us not forget that Jordan was also an all-world defender. Between he and Pippen, the opposing team literally had to hope their post game was working, because it was a no-go from the perimeter when the Dobermans were let off the leash.

    The last shot against the Jazz was setup by MJ picking Malone's pocket.

    Currently, I can't conceive of Durant doing the same.

  • Look, we're all Bulls and MJ fans here, so we don't even want anybody to bring up MJ/Lebron comparisons. It's our natural defense mechanism to fight anything or anybody who would dare bring up such a comparison (funny how EVERYBODY killed Pippen for saying Lebron had the chance to...but now the National Media has been discussing it ad nauseum...but not Chicago media, lol).

    Do I think Lebron will be better than MJ? No. Do I think he can get into his league? Like Doug said, if Lebron becomes the 2nd best player in NBA history, that means he's in the league, and Lebron has that chance...with a slim, remote even, chance of surpassing MJ.

    Are we suppose to think if Lebron rattles of 8 more titles, he can't be as good as MJ? Again, this is only pure conjecture here. If Lebron wins 5 more MVPs, he can't be as good as MJ? If Lebron surpasses MJ and gets to the 2nd or 3rd most points in NBA history, he can't be as good as MJ?

    All I'm saying is, it's going to take a lot, but Lebron can definitely get to MJ status, although the chances that happens are slim.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    Yes, what I'm telling you is even if he does those things he won't be as good as MJ.

  • Everyone outside of Cleveland agreed that LeBron going to the Heat would net him at least one title. Now because the Heat failed spectacularly last year, LeBron's suddenly performed something of a Jordanesque feat by winning this year? I don't understand that logic. Everybody with a brain conceded that LeBron teaming with two other franchise players would net them titles together. It's about how he left Cleveland and it's something a player as great as Michael never had to do.

  • Doug, thank you for writing this well reasoned article, and yes, you may have to update it each year if James wins again. But I've always thought that people were comparing James to the wrong player on the Bulls. He's a lot more like Pippen than Jordan: incredible handle like Pippen, doberman-like defender, great passer and vision, incredible rebounder for a small forward, suspect outside shot with funky form but can still get it going, unstoppable going to the rim when he wants to go to the rim, occasionally prefers to defer in crunch time, has moments of mental weakness.

    But Jordan? No way. Best clutch player ever, became a great outside shooter, imposed his will in EVERY GAME, everyone feared him, played CONSISTENTLY dominant defense, always got the best out of this teammates, and he was an absolute killer. He never had those weak mental moments and unlike Kobe, he never shot his team out of games despite taking a lot of shots.

  • Jordan=assassin, took no B.S. from no one in the league including team mates, coaches, management, owner. Demanded the best from everyone involved with the Bulls organization. Again with the comparisons...WHY!!! Lebron, good player, no... great player, but will never be JORDAN... G.O.A.T. that is all need to be said. This is just something for conversation cause no one has nothing else to talk about. I've been able to watch Jordan since his college days and early in his career in the NBA when players like Jordan at his position would get hammered driving to the basket in the playoffs. Line or Lebron wouldn't be the players they are today if they played back then. They would be good players, but nowhere near what they are now. That alone gives Jordan the argument over both players not to mention every other accomplishment Jordan has, SORRY NO CONVERSATION ON THIS!!!

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Excuse typing error, meant to say Kobe or Lebron wouldn't be the players that they are now had they played in Jordans era, not even close. Kobe is close but no where near Jordan with the type of defense that was played back then and Jordan still absolutely dominated the opposition. Again...(Laughing)... NO COMPARISON media guys...PLEASE STOP!!!!

  • Okay, let's look at the imposters to the throne and compare them to MJ. LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, KD, Magic, Bird? Anybody else? LeBron, an amazing physical specimen, great basketball IQ, and passer at a young age, probably the fastest of anyone I'll mention. Who do most of these attributes sound like in his young prime? Except for the speed, I think Magic Johnson. Do you think Magic Johnson is better than MJ. I've never heard that other than John Salley being silly in suggesting it last week on ESPN. Oh yes, Magic is a great passer, he was an amazing physical specimen, a 6 9 point guard, and he was pretty amazinig as a 19 year old scoring all those points when Kareem was hurt in the finals as a rookie. Still don't you remember Magic's failings especially without Kareem. Remember the Magic that missed shot against Houston. Oh, and when he was up against MJ in the finals, he lost. I think Lebron has a chance to be compared with Magic, but he can never reach MJ status. No one ever thought MJ was a loser when crunch time demanded it. And Michael was never questioned about being the best player on his team. Magic and LeBron, despite their amazing physical gifts, were questioned at times about their abilities to shoot etc. and to win with them carrying the team, not when playing with other possibly better or just as good future hall of fame teammates. Nobody ever thought Pippen was as good as MJ. But Kareem or DWade? Kobe is somewhat similar although better than LeBron to me. Still most of his championships were determined by Shaq in his prime as the alpha dog. Although Kobe is the closest to MJ as compared to anyone else in pure skill, determination, and refusal to lose. Except unlike MJ, Kobe has lost in the finals in his prime. Same as Tim Duncan and a lot of folks point to others as the MVP for Duncan's years such as Ginobili and Parker. My final point here: If you knew you were going to the NBA Finals and you could take a particular player in his prime, Kobe, Duncan, LeBron, Magic, Bird, etc. Who would you take? Oh, it would be MJ head and shoulders above these folks. Six championships, the alpha dog, no championship losses, and never a doubt about his ability to carry a team whether there were other stars or not. And I might take Bird in a finals before LeBron because Bird was just absolutely cold blooded in his prime. He'd tell you he was going to shoot it in your face and do it. He'd steal the ball, make a pass, hit the clutch free throw. Then maybe Duncan and then Magic and then Lebron. Stop the LeBron can be better than MJ talk, because he can't. He can never even approach him. KD is the closest at having that opportunity. An immediate stud carrying his team just like MJ from the day he hit the league. But now he is a loser as well in the Finals and he seems to disappear (possibly due to his skinny frame) in times when his team needs him to be alpha dog. Let's stop the Lebron and KD talk as well. There is somebody better than MJ. We just haven't seen him in the NBA yet. Thanks

  • The downer about these conversations, is that they always elicit short sighted, emotional know it alls attempting to discredit other's opinions with often simplistic arguments that mirror the mental faculty of said blathering moutpiece(s).

    Comparing eras with different styles of play and different rules, different cultures, is a not an easy thing. Handchecking and muggings vs zones and flagrant fouls. Times change. The last place you'll hear a balanced, interesting comparison is from the know it all who disses on others. It is just this sort who is incapable or unwilling to offer the interesting and cogent points for both sides. A contest soley based on negativity and immature taunts is not an arena for comparing and aprreciating greatness. This isn't politics or some smarmy my shit doesn't stink Harvard debate. It's sports. Amercia's game(s).

    Mature(not meaning wealthy or overly smart, but respectful and thoughtful), serious sports fans(i.e watch a lot of the games) of different eras know how good those players really were for their time. And no one can ever be completely objective.

    Rules and game emphasis have changed so much. When (Bill)Russell played for example if you drove the lane and there was contact even if the defender was pedaling backward likely a foul call would be on the OFFENSIVE player. At least that's what I witnessed watching classic NBA games from the 60's including two finals series. How would guys like M.J. and LeBron fair in that setting? Foul calls and free throw attempts based on contact around the basket were not nearly as prevalent for score/free throw enabling. Defenses were often lax, offenses chucking up a ton of shots on by today's standards horrible shooting/field goal percentages with corresponding crazy rebounding totals..

    Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Kareem in his prime. I don't want to tell other people who the greatest player of all time was. Let them speak to the greatness they witnessed rather then attempt to subjectively beat down a rival one obviously wants to be seen as inferior to their astute chosen one: often their hero i.e guy they rooted for. In my lifetime the two greatest players I ever saw in their prime were Kareem Abdul-Jabar and Michael Jordan.

    It's fair to say, and many have said it, that Michael came into his own just as the greatest era of sports superteams were drawing to a close. The Lakers, Bostons, and Pistons all were fading. Playoff basketball, championship basketball weighs heavily on greatness. Yet some players were not lucky enough to be on elite talented teams. Mike had a HOF coach, genius system of ball movement, and yes elite talent around him. He never faced the utlimate test as Magic, Kareem, Bird, D.R. J, and Isaiah did IMO.

    That said, the guy was the Jack the Ripper of his day. A killer. Larry Bird, "When you look into the eyes of Michael Jordan, you're looking itno the eyes of an assassin." This from the guy who says to an opposing player seated on the bench mid game "Hey Chuck(Person), I've got a christmas present for you. I'm gonna give it you real soon." Soon thereafter, Hardcore dagger three to put the game away. "Merry Fucking Christmas," said trotting past the said sap down court. I think that pretty much sums it up. Mike had a hang time I've never seen from LeBron or anyone else. Not the highest leaper ala LeBron or Vince Carter, but the ability to hang in mid air that was deity like honestly. Again, Mr. Larry Legend, "It's god, disguised as Michael Jordan."

    Jordan with 9 count em', 9 30 point seaons including 37, 35, 33, 32, and 32. Shooting above .500 from the field, the gold standard for guards, six times and nearly twice to others at .495.

    LeBron James? Three seasons barely scratching 30 ppg and three seasons at .500 or better. Mike put the fear of god into even dare I say the early 80's Bird/McHale/Parish iconic 80's team when he driopped 64 on the parquet floor. Thank god for Granville Waiters and Kyle Macy.

    I will say it would be hard for me to listen to someone witness how LeBron James was in their mind the greatest player of all time. LeBron absolutely checked out of that crucial game in 2010 where he went 3-14. Even the announcers were saying he just quit on the team. In fact that whole series he was excoriated for his "deferring" to teammates and his low amount of shot attempts. Anyone whose a serious NBA fan knows LeBron has been a late game no-show time and time again. Eight turnovers in a critical gone fishing send off against the Magic. Now he faces a broken down Boston team well past their prime, skips the Bulls with Derrick out, and then faces a bunch of 23 year old kids in the Finals?

    When was the last time a team where the three best players were all in their early 20's won a championship? Or were a threat to win the championship?

    James is the most talented player in the league. He had a great playoffs no question. Arguably he's one of the most talented of all time though his shooting which is an important aspect brings that down a notch IMO. Just as some have critiqued M.J. on that point. Now thanks to the new in essence hard cap teams like Dallas won't have the depth necessary to take on Miami if healthy. That doesn't mean Miami is a sure thing, but things have worked out pretty well for them.

    Hate fuels a lot of these debates. A lot of fans hate James and Wade. I feel sorry for guys from this era who grow up with poor parenting and challenging backgrounds. You could say old man syndrome catches up with you where AC/DC and Led Zepplin were "OK," but today's rap and hip hop simply espouse banging sadly whorish women and punking people aka bitches. The fact is I knew guys who got TOO into AC/DC and drugs with shitty parents just the way some guys now are cool and enjoy rap etc. while others grew up abused and neglected and take the theme of hardcore music to literally as a way of life. We shouldn't hate James and Wade as much as we do that's for sure.

    Subjectively, when I hear Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali, and Michael Jordan bandied about as the triumverate of American Sports it has a nice ring to it. Universally touched upon by many writers and fans of their own innitiative IMO. Yet, I know M.J. may not be the best or second best player of all time. Eras and people are not algebra equations or geometric proofs. Superior or inferior? Each me centered era feels they are the Ones. The chosen ones. The best. In reality each era owns special qualities not found in the others. Maybe that's the way it oughta be left.

  • Draft is closing in. Argument facing Bulls(fans): Trading a proven vet for a draft pick(s) is crazy vs Excpetionally deep draft raises odds of a player whose offense will translate to the NBA.being available. Bulls need scorers(badly) at rookie rates for next few years while ridding themselves of large contracts. Free agents aren't coming here. Gotta take a chance or be hamstrung and lose other talents Taj, Omer.

    Terrence Ross says the Bulls are one of the teams who spoke with him. Harrison Barnes we know about that. Due dilligence or something in the works? If Rose comes back strong with his ratings appeal isn't there some momentum and interest in seeing one of the few teams who can compete(and a major market) add an offensive talent? Or if you don't believe in that sort of thing doesn't it still make sense?

    I'm hoping the Bulls prove prostrating local media wrong, and actually make a smart necessary move rather then passing up on a loaded draft that doesn't happen very often. Deng for a Biedrins puts you what $5 Million ahead? Sure he's nearly worthless,except next summer or next year he's a $9 Million expiring. You jettison Korver, Watson, Brewer, and even Hamilton in trade maybe and you've cut payroll quite significantly. I like Damian Lillard at this spot regardless of size he will be a very good player in the NBA as in a scorer. We need a scorer who also will be a good trading chip if needed.

    I'd really like to see Bulls get two picks late lotto to early mid teens. Three guys I'd target: Moe Harkless, Arnett Moultrie, and Terrence Ross. If the Bulls stand pat with this deep draft, and get only No. 29 when they are potentially close to competing with Miami I'll be probably not watching them much in the near future. Funny how Reinsdorf just went out and spent again on Yuokillis with empty seats yet Bulls fans fill the place, and he defecates on them as in refuses to spend or make dynamic moves.

    Moe Harkless is the guy. He will be a very good to excellent offensive player and all around player in the NBA. Arnett Moultrie is as close to a sure thing as your going to get in a big. Offensively skilled, high motor, solid guy, ran a 3.20 sprint at the combine. He is somebody we need. Screw Mirotic 2016. If we have to we'll trade Taj for another good pick in this draft. And if you don't want to trade a gamer like Taj OK I get that. But for the love of god get Moe Harkless or Arnett Moultrie with the one pick(or Terrence Ross).

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Bah, the Youkilis trade was more for show than dough. Reinsdorf invested under 2 million here (they got 5.6 million back from Boston in "cash considerations"). And if it doesn't pan out in the next few weeks, they can cut their losses, say they tried, and become sellers at the deadline.

    I do like Moe Harkless, but the Bulls need to move to 20 or above to get him. I don't think Moultrie is in consideration, since all signs point to keeping Omer and Taj long term.

    I think you are right on with the most likely move: Loul Deng to Golden State for the #7 pick and Andris Biedrins. That gains us a little space this year, and big relief next year. My preference is to turn around and flip that #7 pick for Houston's 14 & 16 (or Boston's 21, 22 + a second rounder). Then take Harkless and a SG such as Terrence Ross or even stash away Evan Fornier. Still two long days to wait...

  • In reply to sfpaper:

    Didn't you just rag on the GS trade(yesterday) precisely because the Bulls would have to take back a hideous contract precisely like Biedrins. Even though the savings from Biedrins v. Deng essentially pays for Asiks extension for the first 2 years($4.3 million in year 1, $5.3 million in year 2) . I still contend that the Warriors would have to give us an additional pick to take back that salary(30 or 35).

    Taking that contract back is likely why the Bulls have supposedly told Deng flat out that he isn't being traded to GS(Yahoo.)

    By the way this deal doesn't give us "big cap relief" in year 2 because Biedrins has 2 years @ $9 million per left. He has an early termination option in year 2, his option not the teams.

    I like your thinking in immediately trying to flip the pick for both of Houstons picks(which has been my goal all along). However, Houston is reputed to want to move up to either get 2 lottery picks to trade for Howard(Dreaming) or to get their hands on Kwame Curry Drummond. So they might not make that deal until they know that Drummond has slipped to #7, which I actually believe is 50/50 based on Portland taking him or Lillard.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    No, I didn't rag on the GS deal yesterday. I simply pointed out that you were being unrealistic, because you said we could trade Deng for the #7 and Dorell Wright. I said you repeatedly leave out the part where the Bulls take back a hideous contract (exact words). I said in this case, we'd have to agree to Biedrins or Richard Jefferson.

    I misread RoadWarrior's post where he said Biedrins is a 9 million expiring deal. But nowhere in my post did I say that I want to trade with GS, or that this was a good deal, only a more likely deal. If he is 9 million for two years, then I don't like it at all.

    Houston acquired the #18 pick from Minny and are looking to trade up for top 10 picks to go after Howard or get that center in the draft. If the Bulls are going to make any moves, I am in favor of getting picks in the teens rather than the lottery. I just think this draft is deeper than it is strong at the top.

  • Two guys in the draft with likable character: Damian Lillard and Orlando Johnson. I hope Orlando makes it in the NBA. I like Moe Harkless and Arnett Moultrie in this reagrd as well. Draft jones here. Bulls make a fucking move. Please.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    Glad to see that you are jumping on the Harkless, Ross bandwagon. Not sure that I haven't been the only guy on it until now.

    I've also been a proponent of getting additional first round picks(houston), rather than a single lottery pick. I still continue to contend that the Bulls could have both Portland picks(6,11) for either Noah or Asik, as both guys are perfect centers to pair with an offensive power forward like Aldridge.

    The 4 or 5 guys that I have hoped that the Bulls would pursue are Rivers, Harkless, Ross, Wroten and Barton. Until the last couple of days that is the order that I thought that they would be picked. However, I now believe that Harkless could go before Rivers, they are both reputed to be big risers since Chicago pre draft.

    If we only get a single pick, I would now be inclined to take Harkless starting with the 5,6 or 7th picks.

    If we managed to get Portlands picks(6 & 11), I would go with Harkless and Rivers, if he makes it past NO @10, Ross if not.

    If we get Houstons picks(14 & 16) I pray for either Harkless or Rivers or both to drop and pair them with Ross, If both are gone which is becoming more likely each day, then I go with Ross and Wroten.

    Finally, no matter what happens up top, I hope that Will Barton makes it to 29, my gut says he won't be there anymore.

    Finally, I would also love to see the Bulls take Doug's advice and use their expiring contracts to get a couple of early seconds to take a shot at Miles Plumlee, and Kyle O'quinn.

    My bet is the Bulls do what the Bulls do, nothing but sit back and take Ty Taylor(senior, 4 year starter, legendary program(Kansas), final 4) or Jeff Jenkins(little stevie kerr, junior, 3 year starter, major program(SEC)).

    Only 3 more days until football season.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I'm not as big an Austin Rivers fan as you but don't think he will be around where I am thinking he has value (late teens). Otherwise I pretty much agree with all your picks, except maybe Wroten. Even he is fascinating, and if we had more shooters, I'd say why not. So maybe if there were multiple picks, he'd be fine.

    I fear you are right. They sit tight and hope for Barton at 29 and end up with Jenkins. The Steve Kerr comparison is perfect: very undersized for the 2, incredible shooter, brings absolutely nothing else. If that's the end result, and no cap relief, and don't amnesty Boozer now when there may be bidders, this has been a major failure.

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    I just want to make a point here about this article--not argue with anybody but just state some facts that I, at least, think justifies my opinion that LeBron is already better than Jordan. Thank you all for letting me do this. First of all, our society has this idea that whoever is number one will always remain number one forever, but sadly, this is not true. You have to admit that your water is boiled or somebody else will do it for you. Thus, I disagree with the author's reasoning that LeBron is playing AT a Jordan level with his stats mainly because he has already surpassed this level in all of those said stats. Here is a source to prove it: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1228796-lebron-james-is-flat-out-better-than-michael-jordan-at-27-years-of-age. For those of you who may be thinking that it's unfair to compare these statistics to those of Jordan since LeBron went into the NBA directly after high school whereas Jordan played three years of college ball, is it James's fault that he was better than Jordan ever was at such a young age? Is it his fault that Jordan was only the third best player on his college team whereas LeBron was the best on his high school team? If I say so myself, being drafted as the first pick as a young kid from high school is quite a milestone and an accomplishment and, thus, should not be overlooked as an "unfair advantage" from hindsight. Secondly, I acquiesce with the author's statement that LeBron has the best opportunity to triumph Jordan in ring count, but I am enraged by the fact that he is viewing the throne of the "best player in the NBA" from such a typical and biased standpoint. This is not an enormous problem, however, because he is not alone; many individuals in society would claim that to be the best in the NBA, one must win "several" championships. Such bogus is false and completely discriminatory/objective to an amateurish point of view. If the best player in the NBA is judged by the amount of rings that he beholds, then that best player HAS TO BE Bill Russell my friends. Third of all, LeBron James never "threw in the towel" on his Cleveland Cavaliers team--he CHOSE A BETTER FUTURE for himself on a better TEAM (MORE/BETTER PLAYERS THAT CAN ASSIST HIS PLAYS). His decision is not his fault--heck, if he didn't go to Miami, his failures would only continue with that abomination of a team and the author of this article would hence be RANTING about how LeBron's game completely sucks. Thankfully, this did not happen, but the author of this article is unjustified in his perspectives that James will never come close to Jordan. Players CAN (key word) miss "clutch" shots in critical games--this is only human nature and the players are not 100% liable for the results that may occur. On the other hand, our society and MEDIA do not allow such missed shots to be excused which is the reason as to why the author of this article labeled LeBron's "clutch incapabilities" as a problem (#4). People, let's give the player some damn BREATHING SPACE and stop foresighting the potential LEGACY that he will leave behind because he has NOT stopped playing yet. The criticisms regarding LeBron are ALL UNNECESSARY and they need to CEASE trying to provide LeBron with "skeptical advice" about how he can be a better player because said advice is impractical and impossible to follow by any player--even Jordan. Everyone is imperfect so therefore why judge other people's abilities? YOU SHOULDN'T, BECAUSE THEY CAN PROVE YOU WRONG JUST LIKE LEBRON DID BY WINNING A RING THIS YEAR. GROW UP.

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    Labron is better then mj and Kobe. First off it took mj 7 years to get his first ring any men can get a ring with a good well balanced team hell Scottie Pippen to the bulls to the finals with out mj that's how well balance the team was if yall remember dnt get me wrong i love mj but put him on the . ... Cleveland Cavaliers

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    He would not have did half of what laBron James did. Michael Jordan can not Carrie a team that is weak.LeBron had nobody Michael Jordan did so lets keep it real when labron won his first ring he had a hurt Dwayne Wade and a hurt Chris Bosh ok LeBron has proven that he can carry any team no matter how weak there

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    They are. even without the best shot he still play the game better than anybody LeBron dominated in Cleveland by himself against good teams like the Pistons back in 2008 when he beat them in a playoff game something that Kobe Bryant could not do in 2004.and check the stats LeBron is a all around better player than MJ

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