Bulls targets emerge: Nash, Kidd, Young, Delfino

According to CSN, the Bulls will be targeting Nash and Kidd this off-season while Sam Amico notes both are on the Bulls list as well but also adds Nick Young and Carlos Delfino.

So let's attack these names:

Steve Nash

Of course the Bulls should want Steve Nash, he's awesome. He's certainly aging, and he probably more of a 30 minute per night player at this point in his career, but he can open up the court like Derrick Rose can and find ways to get the most out of the rest of our role players.

When Derrick comes back, he strikes me as a guy who can play well along side him because he's a lights out shooter and gives the Bulls the secondary perimeter threat they need. When factoring how he'd fair against Miami, I think the Bulls could still play a Nash/Rose backcourt defensively with Rose on Wade and Nash on whomever the Heat throw up at PG or Shane Battier if they go PG-less [of course that could change depending on what the Heat do next season].

That said, why does Nash choose Chicago over Miami? I know most Bulls fans hate the Heat, but there's no reason to expect Steve Nash feels that way. A healthy Bulls team with Nash probably can beat the Heat and is probably the favorite, but a healthy Heat team with Nash becomes an overwhelmingly heavy favorite.

So while Nash makes a good and interesting target and would be an amazing signing for the MLE for a couple years, I'm not sure that I see it working out for Chicago.

Jason Kidd

Jason Kidd makes some sense as a filler PG for the Bulls if he's willing to come for the veteran minimum, but it's hard to envision paying much more than that. Kidd's offensive game has completely fallen by the wayside as he's aged. He's now almost a pure spot up shooter with 70% of his shots coming from beyond the arc over the past two seasons, and while he's improved his shooting some, it's still fairly mediocre.

He can run an offense and handle the ball, but unless he comes here for the minimum, there's no reason to look at throwing him any more money than that. That said, he'd be a nice solid veteran presence for the league minimum and Kidd probably isn't worth more than that to anyone else either. In that sense, while I doubt he's a huge upgrade for the team, I think he's a reasonably likely addition.

Nick Young

It's hard to imagine that the Bulls have any serious interest in Nick Young. The Clippers received Young from the Wizards for Brian Cook and a second round draft pick. If the Bulls had wanted Young, they could have pulled him away for practically nothing at the trade deadline last year and then held him this off-season as a restricted free agent with his bird rights making him far more likely to sign here this off-season.

Now perhaps they've changed their mind on Young or perhaps they simply didn't want to disrupt anything they had going at the deadline last season, but it just seems like a stretch given he was available so cheaply and we didn't even hear a whisper of the Bulls pursuing him then.

I'm all for throwing the full MLE at Nick Young and seeing if he bites. He's kind of a one dimensional shoot first ask questions later type of player, but the Bulls have proven they need such a player. He's probably not as big a head case as JR Smith while bringing the same basic benefits.

Carlos Delfino

Delfino's a pretty pedestrian player with mediocre shooting percentages. He has some ball handling and creation ability, but not enough that it goes anywhere in terms of solving the Bulls need for a secondary ball handler. He plays SF, so unless the Bulls move Deng, it's not really a position of need either.

He's a minute filler type of guy. He's good enough that he won't hurt you while he's on the court, but he doesn't have any specialized skills that really add much to the picture either. He'd be a decent guy to have on the team for depth, especially if the Bulls are without Deng for awhile, but it's hard to see why Chicago would pay whatever his price is.

He's not going to sign for the minimum, and he makes little sense for Chicago on the MLE since he doesn't really address a need.

We'll see what names emerge down the stretch from the news reports as well as taking a look at all free agents in the Bulls price range and evaluating their fit with the team.

Filed under: Draft Coverage

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  • I'm not really high on Kidd, don't think we have a chance with Young, and I kind of like Delfino because he is tough and we will need some depth since Deng will be out for a while. Stating all this, I only keep the core as is if we can either get Steve Nash or Andre Miller. The rest is a wash as these two will make our core look better than what they are now-a-days and allow us to bring Rose along slowly. If we can put "feelers" out and not get real interest back, I would rather rebuild and use this draft as a barometer.

    Nash will probably be a long-shot, but I disagree the Heat will automatically be better. While Wade shows some spurts, I would think his game will decline within the next year or two. Nash seems to want to be in a better environment and we or the Mavs can provide that (probably his favorite). I just don't know if I can envision Nash wanting to join the Heat; especially if they don't win it this year. He would be the starting point guard here and we could slide Derrick to SG once he is ready and then limit Nash's minutes; a long shot, but I feel we have a better chance than the Heatles.

  • In reply to kevinstates:

    Nash already publicly commented that he would consider the Heat this off-season. Granted, without knowing the question that led to the comment it's hard to read much into it, but there's been a lot of talk about Nash to Miami already, so I think it's far more likely than you.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Raptors have to be a legit option for Nash as they can offer more than the MLE and offer the chance for him to play in his home Country. That would be sweet if he signs with the bullies though I think it is a bit of a long shot especially with Nash probably in win now mode and Bulls are a year away.

    I don't think I would offer Kidd the Vet min his game is basically done at this point and wouldn't want to give Thibs the option of playing him in some sort of Bogans role...

    Nick Young would be a nice add just hope Pax and Gar can nut up and make it happen. I know they have a strong aversion to his type but our roster is in desperate need of scoring with Rose out.

    Delfino is just roster filler to me. I would rather have someone young that they can work on developing. It's not like we are tooling up for a run next season...

  • In reply to Chad:

    Nash seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't want to deal with all the extra baggage that comes with the heat. All the attention, rather all the negative attention, would be off putting for someone like him. Has he ever been booed? Would he want to turn himself into a possible villain? I can't see it. It's possible his presence would would change public perception of the heat and another year removed from the decision should lower the negative public sentiment. But he seems like the kind of guy who would prefer to play for a team like the bulls who play hard and do all the right things. We aren't the spurs but we aren't too far removed either.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Under the new collective bargaining agreement, the Heat can not keep adding to their payroll without winning championships. Micky Arison will not stand for it, nor should he. With the egregious luxury tax set to kick in during the 2013-14 season, having 3 Max contracts is not practical or sustainable. Before their contracts become undesirable, this off season is the right time for Pat Riley to trade Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to Orlando for Dwight Howard and Ryan Anderson. The Heat free up money, the Magic remain relevant, and the pieces fit. This works for everybody except Wade and Bosh. But they’re under contract for 2 more years and have no say in the matter.

  • In reply to kevinstates:

    (replying to everybody, not just Kevin)

    Like Doug stated, Nash has already publicly stated he would have some interest in the Heat. Maybe he's just didn't want to step on any toes, but you can't rule out that he would not want to play there.

    Raptors ARE a legit option because they can offer past the MLE, but I believe, so are the Pacers, Jazz, Blazers, Nets, Mavs, Magic....which is why I think the Bulls would have to get close to what these teams are offering.

    I think the 'cheaper' options will be Andre Miller, Chauncey Billups, or Kirk Hinrich. Bulls can trade Watson, Brewer, or Korver (who probably won't be back) to DEN, LAC, or ATL (who with the loss of their backup PG, would need one back, or prefer to take a defensive wing or 3pt specialist....S&T for about $3-5mil (see who is the cheapest).

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    You replace Derrick with one of the "cheaper options" then the PG position is taking a hit of about 20 ppg. No way the rest of the lineup can cover that kind of production especially with a 5-10 ppg hit at SF while Deng is out. Atleast either JL3 or Watson can put up double digits when thrust into starting minutes. If we don't add a dynamic scorer of some sort and replace Watson with one of the plodders mentioned we could easily be a bottom 5 offense through All Star break.

  • In reply to Chad:

    Nobody is arguing Nash is better than the cheaper options...that's why it's called 'cheaper options'.

    I just don't think we're getting Nash for $3mil.

  • In reply to kevinstates:

    I have to assume that the only reason Nash will leave the Suns is to win a championship, therefore, he will go where he thinks he has the best chance to do so, how is that not Miami, they are the best team with the greatest need for a point guard. The Bulls are neither.

    The only other option would be if he has some greater loyalty to his home country than he does to himself, but he can always do that when he knows it is going to be his last season, which the upcoming one isn't.

  • In reply to kevinstates:

    I think you hit the nail on the head. Steve Nash is the man the Bulls need!
    Kidd would be a disaster and a walk in the wilderness. We don't need a guard that can only distribute. He couldn't shoot when he was in his prime and he has been a "HOLD YOUR BREATH" adventure throughout his career whenever he found himself with the ball and the only option being to launch it. Sometimes he gets lucky and some fools exclaim what a great player he is. But the truth is that Kidd's gifts were his court vision and magic as a distributor. He can run a fast break and finish a layup, but for a guard he has been a disaster shooting it.

    At this stage in his career, the legs are gone. He never could shoot a jump shot to save his life, so any mention of Kidd as a stand-in for Derrick Rose leaves a big hole on a team which needs a weapon at point.
    Put Nash as the conductor of this symphony and you immediately have a two-headed monster who is near 100% at the free-throw line.
    Give Nash two years with this Bulls team, with Rose sharing the duties after being absent for a year and a half, and this Bulls team, with the right moves, will be scary. With Steve Nash at the helm they could win next year.

  • I doubt we'll get Nash, he should go to the heat, but I wouldn't mind Kidd. I think he'd be a nice locker room presence, kinda like Scal but who actually plays. Young would be interesting, seemed like he calmed down a bit with the Clips and if VDN can do that, I hope Thibs would be able to change him a bit. But I could also see Thibs turning Young off. Delfino would be fine for some filler min to replace Deng while he's injured.

  • In reply to bpmueller:

    I like Kidd too, but wonder if you'd get better play from Andre Miller for the same price.

  • The Nash rumor reminds me that the Bulls may have to let Asik walk to add talent this offseason. Keeping Asik would probably cost the Bulls their MLE, which is precisely what they would use if they wanted to make an offer to Nash, Garnett, Allen or N. Young. I like Asik, but I don't see paying 5M per year for a guy who plays 10 minutes a night.

    Would much rather see the Bulls go after Pietrus from the Celts than Delfino. Similar defense, better 3 point shooting. Plus, he's already playing for close to the minimum.

  • In reply to nafsllub:

    The Bulls have Asik's bird rights, therefore they can match any offer to him and still have the full MLE available, However, doing both will guarantee that they will be over the tax line, maybe significantly so.

    Andre Miller is my #1 choice among the veteran options available, but Denver supposedly wants him back, and I don't know if he is an MLE or less guy. If we could nab him, then we don't have to bring Watson back, so the net cap cost is less than $2 million per.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Bird Rights only come into play if the player has been under contract for 3 years or more. No Bird Rights in Asik - only had him 2 years. So we have to use an exeption to keep him. Likewise, can only S&T up to the MLE, and doing so uses our MLE.

  • In reply to nafsllub:

    Sorry, but you are wrong, there is a second tier of Bird rights for second round picks, the Bulls have this on Asik, the Knicks do not on Jeremy Lin, which is why they have to use their MLE to sign him, and why the union is suing to get his Bird rights restored.

    The fact of the matter is, the Bulls can match any offer to Asik, and still have a full MLE available to use on another player.

    Doug, I/we would appreciate a confirmation on this, as it keeps coming up. Thanks

  • Boozer - $15, Deng $13.4, Noah - $11.3, Rose $15.5, Rip $5, Taj - $2.2, Butler - $1.1, 29th pick Cap Hold of let's say - $1mil, and 4 Cap Holds of - $1.6mil

    That's $66.1mil in payroll. That includes not picking up the final years of Brewer ($4.4), Korver ($5) and Watson ($3.2).

    What that $66.1mil does not include, is Asik's Potential Offer Sheet of AT LEAST $5mil, which would put the Bulls into the luxury tax.

    I could be wrong, but according to http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one, teams in the luxury tax ONLY have the Mini MLE of $3mil (not the full $5mil).

    With that said, I agree with you 100% regarding Nick Young. I think the Bulls could have had him if they wanted him last year, but thought he was a knucklehead. After seeing him be a professional with veteran leadership in LAC, maybe they've had a change of heart. Bulls wouldn't have the MLE to offer him, nor should they. He's not worth $5mil, sorry.

    Now to Nash. If the most the Bulls can offer Nash is $3mil, I just don't see why he passes up on MIA (who he's already publicly stated he has some interest in), but I think Nash is going for money as well as a chance to compete (not necessarily only chasing a ring).

    Only way I see Bulls getting Nash is through a S&T deal with PHO, and give up some combo of like Brewer, Korver, Watson, and/or a draft pick or 2. And THEN, the Bulls would have to shell out money (my guess is $8mil) and get into the luxury tax...that is, if they are trying to win a title next year.

    Delfino and Kidd, ehh...they're backups.

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    The Bulls can stay under the tax before resigning Asik(cap hold of only $2.2 million), therefore maintaining their ability to offer the MLE.

    In fact if they were to amnesty boozer, they would need to sign Asik first in order to not slip below the salary cap which eliminates the availability of the MLE.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Honestly, I'm not sure what the restrictions are on the MLE.

    I'm assuming if you're let's say $1 under the luxury tax, you can't offer the full MLE of $5mil. My guess is, if the Bulls are at $66.1mil in salaries, that would mean they only have $3.9mil of the MLE (this is based on the luxury tax being $70mil).

  • In reply to YouBlewwIt:

    My understanding is that is why it is called an exception, if you are one penny under the tax you get to use the full exception and exceed the tax line.

    There are some new "apron" rules that apply to teams near the cap line and the tax line, but these actually help you exceed the limits, but place restrictions once you do. i.e. I think that $74.9 million becomes becomes a one year hard cap for you if you offer the MLE to someone when you are at $69.9 million.

    Additionally, if you are just under the cap at $58 million you are allowed to sign one player to put you over the cap by a few million before you become hard capped for that year.

    The new CBA is actually less restrictive/more generous to teams right at the limits, at least giving them the ability to add one quality veteran to exceed the limits.

  • I guess we should just be happy Kirk Hinrich hasn't been mentioned this week.

  • Those are definitely ideas. Kidd, Nash and Miller will be respectively 40, 39 and 37 years old when D-Rose backs.

    I'd rather go after young PG. Let's bring back Hinrich.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    I meant "bad ideas"

  • The Bulls lack offensive punch so Nash would definitely help the Bulls. He would turn the likes of Noah, Gibson and even slippery fish hands Asik into offensive weapons. The only thing is the Bulls would probably have to buy out Hamilton's contract to get a Nash deal done. Hinrich would help our perimeter d but his offense is on a steep decline but still a solid 3 point shooter. Kidd is ok but nothing great, I probably would prefer Hinrich to him.

  • Doug, I can't believe that you think throwing the full MLE at Nick Young is a no brainer type of move.

    The full MLE is 4 years and over $20 million. Throwing the full MLE around willy-nilly every year is exactly what gets teams in cap/tax hell with a bunch of veteran names making too much and producing too little.

    In the new super tax era, judicious use of the full MLE will be even more important than it has been in the past. I am not sure than Nick Young even merits getting a full MLE from anybody, there was virtually no interest in him last season as a free agent.

    If you are going to pay Young the full MLE, why not just keep Korver.

    Finally, if the Bulls match Asik, without amnestitizing boozer, they have no money to sign anyone but minimum deals if they are to avoid the luxury tax. and if they retain both Asik and Watson, they are over the cap without amnestitizing boozer.

    I don't see the Bulls using the MLE or signing anybody, unless they amnestitize boozer. In fact you can tell the bulls strategy for the upcoming season, by what they do with boozer. If they keep him, it means wait til next year(2013), if they amnestitize, then it means that they will make moves to compete this season.

    Despite what SSS says, the case for amnesty becomes more logical every day.

  • 2 trades to ponder

    #1, Deng and the future Charlotte pick to Charlotte for the #2 pick, giving us our choice of MKG, Beal, Robinson, Barnes etc. I don't buy them, but there are rumors that the Bob's are looking to move the pick to acquire veteran leadership, and Deng is from Duke so he might have some popularity in Charlotte. Rightly or not, I think that the #2 pick is too sexy to the fans to trade it away. But maybe Charlotte gets sentimental about reversing the Tyrus Thomas mistake and getting their pick back.

    and then

    Bulls trade boozer(and Brewer for cap purposes) for Rashard Lewis.
    I would explore this trade regardless of a bigger deal as a way to dump boozer without amnesty, even if it does guarantee that the Bulls will be tax payers this season.

    If Charlotte doesn't bite on #1 then scenario #2

    trade boozer and Deng to the Wizards for Lewis and the #3 pick. I'd try to get Trevor Booker back from them also. For the Wiz a front line of Deng, Nene, and boozer with John Wall has to get you in the playoffs in the east, which the 3rd pick alone is not doing.

    In either scenario, The Bulls get out from under the 2 contracts hindering their future flexibility and move forward with a core of Rose, Noah, Taj, Asik, the #2 or #3 pick and Mirotic in 2 years.

    Scenario #2 is actually better for the Bulls since they keep the future Charlotte pick and make out quite a bit better this year cap/tax wise($8-9 million).

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Here is a link to an argument supporting my Deng and the future Charlotte pick for the Bob's #2 pick, although this guy would seem to think that we need to throw in our #29 pick also.

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/03/when-the-process-matters-why-charlotte-should-trade-the-no-2-pick/

  • In reply to BigWay:

    To me, Bobcats should not trade that pick. They absalutely need a franchise player and as much as I like Deng, that is not what he is. Kidd-Gilchrist has that potential in my opinion. If Jordan trades this pick for someone like Deng, I think it means he is afraid on making a mistake. The Wizards deal is intesting, but if I was Washington the deal I want to make is offering #3 and whatever else to the Lakers for Bynum. Wall and Bynum would be a great starting point for that franchise. The Lakers could have a young star of their choosing to put with Bryant and whatever they can get from Gasol to make another run.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I'm skeptical that either Charlotte or Washington would do these trades, but the Bulls absolutely should if they're available. I'd love to get MKG as a starting SG-SF wing and replacement for Deng or to take a risk on Beal as a potential quasi-all-star SG of the future.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Wow, that #2 scenario sounds really familiar....

  • Doug, could you enlighten me on the MLE/MMLE? From what I've gathered, we don't even have the MLE to offer a FA this summer. If that's true, then we'd have to pull some sort of sign and trade for Nash. Who would we give up in that scenario? Deng? Taj?

  • For you draft hounds, Aggrey Sam at CSN has a fairly comprehensive review of all the first round picks in his mock draft. Nothing new necessarily, but useful information.

    http://www.csnchicago.com/basketball-chicago-bulls/bulls-talk/Aggrey-Sams-NBA-Mock-Draft?blockID=719390&feedID=10332

  • I can't see the conservative Bulls moving Derrick to SG, and Nash wants to start so how does that work?.

    If Doug is right, amnestying Boozer would only cost post bid/pick up by another team between $3.5 and 5 Mil per year for seven years. That's nothing really for eliminating taxes and freeing up a paralyzed payroll. But Jerry R. will save that money for an extra lefthanded bat.

    These Deng trades, the guy is going to be out possibly until January making $13 Mil and 27 Million over the next two years. I'm not sure there's a big market there. Next summer his final year 2014 expiring will become valuable. I suppose if a contender wanted Deng, and a large expiring in the near future or a young talented ball club needed a veteran presence then maybe he could get you a pick in the early teens or late lottery maybe but these top seven pick notions are not happening IMO.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    The Rose to SG thing is something they've done before. Rose and Hinrich, Rose and Watson. They haven't done it in heavy doses since Hinrich, but they do it. I just wonder what they plan to do with Hamilton.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    I agree that Deng's value right now is affected by the uncertaintly of his injury, but that would not stop me from trying to move him(his contract) in a deal that makes sense for us now.

    He should be back to full value by the trade deadline, when he should have returned to full time play and full health.

    Never the less, there seems to be incessant chatter that all the remaining lottery picks are in play(2-14) as teams don't see any franchise type players in this draft after Davis.

    The Bulls need to restructure there salary cap with boozer and Deng being the big issues. With Rose effectively out for next season, the time to start restructuring is now.

  • i don't see the Kidd, Young, or Delfino deals happening. Watson would be a better option than Kidd right now and I don't see Young or Delfino at that price. As for Nash, I doubt it happens but I'd like to see it. The reason I don't see him going to Miami, even though it sounds like a no brainer. Labron would still be the best PG they would have. Nash needs the ball to be the most effective, Labron needs the ball to be effective, Wade needs to have the ball. If he went to the Heat, he would be reduced to nothing more than a spot up shooter. You take away his creativity, which is what makes him great. He may look into it, but I'm not sure if he's interested in playing that way. When you look at the Bulls, he could play his style of basketball. If the team makes no other changes, he can make the Bulls a contender next season. Not saying he puts them over the top, but they would be in the conversation. I think he and Boozer may actually be a good combination too. My only concern would be how he performs on defense and does he want to be with the Bulls for two or three years. I don't know if he's interested in a one year plan. But, the Bulls with Nash would be very good offensively. I don't think any of the Pheonix teams had the talent of this bulls team. I think if he wants a championship more than money, the Bulls may be the best option.

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    I'm not agree with the comments on Delfino. Delfino is not a Star player, but definitely is a great role player. He can play in three posittions PG, SG and SF. He can give you many minutes of defense and also on the ofensse.
    I think, he is probably one of the most underestimated players on the the NBA roste.He can give you 15-20 quality minutes in every team.
    If you see his labour on the Bucks theses days, you can see a worthy job every game. Playing hard on defense ( he always take the better opponent player to defend (Lebron, Durant, Kobe, etc) and taking the few opportunities he can on the offense.

  • How about trading Deng to either the Warriors for Wright and the 7th pick, or to the Raptors for Calderon and the 8th pick? Ideally the first trade would be better for us, as we get a starting 3 and can draft Jeremy Lamb. Or if it's the second scenario, Calderon comes off the books after next year, and we'll have some cap flexibility. It would be even better if the Raptors would take Boozer and send us some other pieces, maybe the Barbosa trade exception. Just a few thoughts...

  • Nash fits way better on Miami than he does with Rose, and if he's ring chasing it's a more logical destination.

    The good news (if he goes to Miami) is that he's the fifth oldest in the league. It's not like he's a long term solution for either team.

    And he has a Tracy McGrady lazy eye. Weirds me out.

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