Ben Gordon trade shows Bulls not serious about spending to win

The Charlotte Bobcats acquired Ben Gordon and a future first round pick [2013 lotto protected, top 8 in 2014, top 1 in 2015, unprotected 2016] for Corey Maggette [expiring deal of a crappy player]. The move was a salary relief one for Detroit who took on a worse player while giving up a potentially very valuable pick to save some money. The Bulls could have gotten in on this, and if they don't move their non-guaranteed contracts for draft picks later it will prove out that Chicago is in it for the money.

Make no mistake, the Bulls could have trivially trumped this deal. Rip Hamilton + their choice of Korver or Brewer to match salaries. They waive Korver/Brewer and buy out Hamilton again and likely save around five or six million over what they do with the deal they just completed with Charlotte. If they sent Kover/Brewer instead of Hamilton, it would have saved Detroit 11 million more.

Meanwhile, the Bulls grab another pick which will most likely come in as a top 10 pick in 2015 to add to their hopes to add cheap, lottery talent around Derrick Rose in the future while addressing one of their primary needs right now [someone who can create their own shot and score while Rose is out].

Say what you want about Gordon, but he's much better than Hamilton and some dude we're going to waive anyway and while improving the team considerably we also get a likely future lotto pick for our troubles. Seems like a great deal until you start looking at the finances.

The Bulls would probably end up around seven million [and closer to 12 million in the scenario where they don't move Hamilton] in the luxury tax this year after such a trade. Now of course, we're willing to pay the tax to win a championship, but apparently we aren't willing to pay the tax to get lottery picks and improve the team considerably this season.

Paying the tax for a championship is great, but it's also a cop out, because doing so doesn't actually cost the franchise any money. They would make back more money than the tax they pay.

Now everything written prior to this can be disproven. There will be plenty of other opportunities to take on salary to get draft picks. If the Bulls take advantage of some of those, then we'll have shown that they just valued a different opportunity more than this one.

However, if the Bulls, as I expect, simply let their non guaranteed contracts go then it will show that they aren't interested in maximizing the odds of winning a title if it cuts into their MASSIVE profit margins. By the way, my season tickets cost almost 20% more next season.

Let's see if they actually invest any of that money in the team. My guess is no.

Filed under: Management, Trade rumors

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  • Crap. That deal was ours. Detroit AND Charlotte's draft picks in 2015 or 2016? Wow.

    Gordon was unhappy and redundant in Detroit...while I doubt he ever recovers his previous Bulls form (like the 2009 Boston series), I think he would have had a mini-renaissance if he had come back here.

    Oh well, he's shorter, slower, and less consistent than Ray Allen, who is going to walk into the Bulls front office in a few weeks and beg them to accept him for the Vet Minimum because he loves deep dish pizza.

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    There's no way in hell Ben Gordon is slower than Ray Allen though I agree with the shorter and less consistent part.

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    Two high 2015 picks, Mirotic coming in 2015, Deng and Gordon's contracts off the books in 2014 ($27.5 mil - possibly sign them to smaller, declining deals), and Boozer expiring in 2015 ($16.5 mil)?
    Holy hell that would have been awesome.
    They would have been in position to put some very good, very cheap pieces around Rose/Noah/Taj and been set for a long time.

  • Other then the habitual naysayers regarding anything remotely controversial and the Jerry Reinsdorf Bulls enablers, my guess is a vast majority of die hard Bulls fans agree with every word Doug posted here(excpet maybe that Ben Gordon is a guy we want - but lets not get hung up on that, please). The sentiments and comments that Reinsdorf has cheated fans while raking in obscene profits outnumbers any Reinsdorf defenders three or four to one IMO.

    We know even beyond spending the Bulls in Gar/Pax are known/categorized by NBA media and personnel league wide as notoriously conservative i.e hardly a fan's best friend. Rather, their worst nightmare. Even aside from spending this deep draft has cheap talent even in the second round according to many in NBA circles. But the Bulls who could easily acquire some upper second round picks will do no such thing. D.J. O, Marcus Denmon, perhaps Will Barton or even Doron Lamb, guys a Mario Chalmers snagging Miami would be happpy to take if they needed them.

    We know that judging by their past m.o., most NBA media and execs are betting the Bulls will do nothing on draft night but stand pat at No. 29. Then, they'll dump at least two of Korver, Watson, and Brewer possibly all three. Anything to avoid the tax or really anything dynamic because Jerry likes things nice and quiet. No controversy. Just profit.

    If you buy this is a deeply talented draft, we need cheap priced players, and that this is a prime opportunity to improve the ball club then you are alienated to say the least by Gar/Pax innaction. While I hold slim hopes they won't fail Bulls fans this impotently, I'm not holding my breath.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    And action would mean obviously trading up into the teens or higher for an offensive talent among the deep pool of lockout holdovers and this years above average talent crop. Lu, Taj, Jo somebody has to go if we are going to solve our budget crisis i.e avoid the tax(right Jerr), and add offensive talent Derrick and the Bulls desperately need. Rip, Bogans.. for the love of god enough.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    How could you not get hung up on the Ben Gordon part, it completely invalidates Doug's entire rant.

    Who the hell wants to watch both Ben Gordon and Bozo the Boozer at the same time, while paying them $72 million in salary, plus tens of millions in additonal tax payments, while losing both Asik and Gibson.

    Ben Gordon is the whole point, of course you make the deal that Charlotte did for a great player, only an absolute buffoon makes it for Ben Gordon.

  • I pretty much agree with all you say. I wish Cuban was our owner!

  • In reply to kevinstates:

    Cuban is the Anti-Reinsdorf(though he pantsed Repeat hopeful fans this year. Though Dirk didn't look up to it anyway). But for the last ten years he gave fans a legit financial comittment and effort to field talented, very entertaining and competitive teams. Finally, it culmintaed in a champioship with a lof of entertained and excited fans in the mean time. Again, the Anti-Reinsdorf.

  • The Bulls need to pick a lane. Either rebuild or pay the damn tax. Make up your damn minds.

  • In reply to SoulEater7:

    Exactly

  • In reply to SoulEater7:

    Not even picking a lane here, this move does both. It improves the team AND it significantly helps with your second effort around Derrick Rose when the current cast is past its shelf life. That's what makes it so disappointing.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Well I have never been a big fan of the GarPax administration and this only adds to my frustration with them. 1.7% really was a blessing and a curse. I'm going to start calling Rose 1.7%. Where would this front office be if not for a lucky bounce? Norte Dame? College scouting? I should probably hold off on the fire and passion meat head talk until Thursday because I'm a big believer in moving Deng and have been for years so I'm just sharpening my pitch fork. I think they can save some face with me if they start the rebuilding process now instead of being complacent. Now also I heard KC Johnson say they won't Amnesty Boozer for another two season. I'm just foggy on what the plan is. Maybe they just don't care until Rose shows he's still Rose.... I don't know. I will gladly wait and sit through suckage and Miami titles if they can get younger and more athletic on the wings. I'm in favorite of just rebuilding this team but the problem is they wanna build it more geared towards Thibs than Rose. Thats my one big gripe besides a Deng trade. Coaches come and go.

  • Of course if they do make a move, and pick the wrong guy(s) that would suck, but at least you can then respect the effort i.e you can live with that.

  • No one wants to deal with the Bulls, no free agents wants to play for the Bulls, the owner is cheap, only cares about his precious White Sox and doesn't care about Bulls fans. I don't look for them to do anything with this draft. They will wait til all the descent free agents are gone and then sign the cheapest players left. Not to mention Korver will be gone, Brewer will be gone, and Watson and Lucas will probably be gone. Rose and Thibs better be trying to think of ways to leave the Bulls cause their owner absolutely with out a doubt sucks and should really consider selling the team cause he's not ably winning at all. It would surprise the hell out of me if the Bulls make any big draft day deals.

  • Just when I thought it was safe, that we would never have to discuss Ben Gordon again.

    You have now officially entered Skip Bayless/Bill Maher level of lunacy.

    My first reaction to hearing about this trade was that Jordan was trying to cemet his legacy as the worst executive in NBA history, by making the drafting of Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison look like geniuos. O.K., maybe that is a little hyperbole.

    Yes the Bulls could have saved Detroit more money than Charlotte did, but what the fuck does that prove., The Bulls are not in business to save Detroit money. So because Charlotte are morons, the Bulls should be even bigger morons for the sole benefit of Detroit.

    It was bad enough when you kept arguing that anything about Gordon was worth keeping by overpaying for him in the first place. Now, 3 years later, when Joe Dumars has been excomunicated from the Hall of fame for the Gordon signing, you want to revisit that insanity.

    Maybe we can reacquire Hinrich, Curry, Tyrus Thomas, Ron Artest and Jamal Crawford as a 6th man while your at it. Then, along with Deng, we would have our entire "core" back.

    I am not even going to get into your contention that Gordon is somehow a vastly superior player to the crappy Maggette. They are clearly equivalently crappy at this time, and probably have been throughout their career's.

    Just to be clear Detroit is giving up the vastly superior player and in order to do so they are "bribing" Charlotte with what according to you will be a top 10 draft pick. Interesting what one year of extra cap room is going for these days(anothe chance to make a collosal mistake, i.e. signing Gordon and Villanueva in the first place).

    Now, that Gordon has became exactly the piece of shit that I predicted he would, and the Bulls are right up against the tax, you want to pay him $25.5 million for 2 years(potentially over $55 million with tax), completely paralyzing us for those 2 years, including not being able to retain Asik and Taj. Yea, here is a great idea, spend more on Gordon for the last 2 years of his contract than you were willing to pay him for the whole 5 years to begin with.

    If the Bulls can't even make the decision to amnesty boozer, why on earth would they want to reacquire his butt brother Ben Gordon, and spend over $100 million(with tax) for the joy of watching them both fake it for the next 2.5 years.

    Adding Ben Gordon to the Bulls now would do for the Bulls championship asirations, exactly what it did for us the first 5 years we had him, absolutely nothing, not even close. If you think that adding Gordon to the Bulls for the next 2 years makes us a champion, especially in light of the absolute dog that he has been since signing for big money, you should just quit the game right now. What is it that they say about the definition of insanity.

    I thought that the Bobcats were the biggest morons in the world for spending that kind of money($14.5) just to buy a future draft pick. But at least they are so far below the cap that they will be forced to spend the money anyway on somebody, anybody even a piece of shit like Gordon. But no, the Bulls spending $25.5 to $55 million to buy a mid round draft pick would indeed be more moronic. I believe that you can just hand a team a check for $3 million every year and buy a first round pick, that seems like the cheaper route, no.

    Speaking of pieces of shit, notice how he hasn't even bothered to show up yet for Great Britain, kind of the exact opposite of whatever you said about Luol Deng.

    By the way, the pick will not be a top 10 pick. Detroit, especially if they make a good pick this year seems to have turned the corner. They have the 9th pick this year, so with the lottery protection for 2013, the pick would be outside the lottery if given in 2013. By 2014 with a second additional lottery pick the Pistons should be a playoff team.

    When it comes to your anger at the Bulls for not spending money just for the sake of spending money, you have become completely irrational, even autohomicidal. Combine that with you idiotic love for Gordon's horseshit game and this might be the single worst opinion that you have ever posted. I'll bet you anything you want that it does not end up a top 10 pick, and anyone not suffering from Reinsdorf/Gordon derangement syndrome would never predict that it would.

    I have generally had a great deal of respect for your level headed analysis of all things Bulls. Since you've gone all Mappy on us today, I am going to chalk up this post to double root canal without anestesia, and massive dose's of oxycontin afterward.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I think you are letting your dislike of BG cloud your judgment. This was a great basketball move by Rich Cho and Charlotte (MJ did not make this move). Charlotte is not going to win anything anytime soon, so paying BG for 2 years and gaining a potential lottery pick from a bad Piston team was smart. The also can possibly trade BG next year to a team looking to cut salary after his deal expires. Even if you have to pay him for 2 years they now have recouped the draft pick traded to the Bulls for Thomas. It's worth it for them. They need as much future help as possible.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Let go of your hate of Ben Gordon for a moment here. Replace Gordon with Richard Jefferson or Andris Biedrins if you want in your head it is irrelevant.

    The Bulls could have bought a likely 2015 top 10 draft choice by paying seven million in luxury tax.

    By not making this trade, the Bulls are choosing to save money that will not be spent on the team but go directly into owner pockets instead of having a 2015 lottery pick.

    If you're thrilled about that because you hate Ben Gordon then good for you, but I think it sucks that we're not interested in buying lottery picks while operating on the highest profit margin in all of US professional sports.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Wrong, Wrong and Wrong, My dislike for the Gordon as a basketball player aside.

    Making the deal you suggested, would not cost the Bulls "only" $7 million. That is a ludicrous analysis. Because you are trading expiring contracts that the Bulls are not picking up(precisely because they cannot afford to without paying the luxury tax), to begin with you are adding the full $25 million of Gordons salary(or if you want Jefferson @$21 million or Biedrins @$18 million). That is $25 million more than the Bulls were going to spend without doing the Gordon deal.

    Then every single penny of that money is in the tax(the Bulls are at $64 million for just Rose, Noah, Deng, Hamilton, Gibson and Butler), add $6 million to fill out the roster(5 guys) gets you to the tax line,$70 million. So, Gordon's contract adds $25 million this year(12.5 in salary, 12.5 in tax), for a total payroll of roughly $95 million. Plus the loss of Asik.

    Then next year when the punitive tax kicks in, Gordon's contact will add about $35 million(13 in salary, $22 in tax), for a total payroll of about $105 million. Plus the additional loss of Gibson.

    So, the total cost of Ben Gordon for 2 years is $60 million, the loss of both Asik and Gibson, in addition to the absolute joy of watching boozer and gordon on the court at the same time for 2 whole years.

    Yea, I make that deal every time for the #15-16 pick in the 2014 draft. How in the world did you come up with $7 million, amnestitizing boozer would be the only way to even come close.

    Again, do the analysis, and the pick will not be a lottery pick. The Pistons had only the 9th worst record this past season, and played at a near playoff pace in the second half of the season. By the time we would get the pick Detroit will have added at least 2 more lottery picks to the team that they already have, (by definition it would not be a lottery pick in 2013). Additionally, the Pistons will improve just by letting other guys take Gordons minutes, and we will be worse. So, you think that the current Pistons team(with a budding star in Monroe) will add 2 more lottery picks and still be a lottery team in the 2014 draft. O.K., that's your opinion.

    Once, we take on Gordons salary we become transactionally paralyzed for the next 2 years. We cannot retain Asik or Gibson, without paying tax on every penny of their deals.

    However, lets say the Bulls are spending Doug's money, so they retain both Asik and Gibson, then the Bulls payroll cost for this season with tax will be about $105 million. That is $64 million for Rose, Noah, Deng, Boozer, Gibson and Butler, $6 million to fill out the roster(5 players), $12.5 for Gordon, $5 for Asik, and $17.5 million in tax).

    The following year with Gibson signing for something more than Asik and the punitive tax kicking in, the total cost of Asik would be more than $15 million(because of Gordon all Asiks money is in the double+ tax bracket), and Gibson would cost near $25 million with tax(all his money would be in the triple+ tax bracket), bumping the payroll to something in the neighborhood of $145 million. All that to exchange Korver, Brewer and Watson for Gordon(which easily makes us a worse team overall), and a non lottery pick in 2014.

    So the total cost of acquiring that #1 pick is now $110 million, again an absolute no brainer, if it's not your money.

    If the Pistons draft well, and we have given up both Asik and Gibson not only are the Pistons not a lottery team, they could become better than the Bulls are over the next 2 season.

    Would you pay $60 or $110 million if you were guaranteed an unknown but #1 pick in the 2014 draft. No, you wouldn't. Would you pay $60 or $110 million for this years #1 Antony Davis. Yes, No, Maybe you wouldn't. Would you pay $60 or $110 million for any current player in the NBA. Someone might for Lebron and Durrant maybe, anybody else.

    Your lack of clarity on the cost of this transaction is stunning. Really, I have no explanation for it, as you are usually the voice of reason around here.

    I would love to lock you in a room with Reinsdorf, Paxson and Foreman, and let you make this argument to them. I guarantee that they would rip you a new one so large that Shaquile O'neal could be shoved up it. Either that or they would just die laughing.

    The only thing stronger that my dislike of Gordon as a basketball player is your derangement over spending the Bulls money.

    Even you have admitted that by the time the new CBA is fully implemented nobody, not even the Lakers or Knicks will carry a payroll much over $80 million, and even when they do it won't be for more than a season or 2. So why would you expect the Bulls to go into the $95 to $105 million range for this deal while losing both Asik and Gibson.

    In all honesty, I mean not disrespect to you at all, but I cannot figure out where you are coming from on this one. It seems like utter irrational rage. Please, anyone tell me where I am wrong on my analysis of the math on this deal, setting aside that it involves one of my least favorite players of all time.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    "Mappy"...haven't heard that in a while.

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    The Infamous Mr. Happy?

  • In reply to BigWay:

    The only way I see the Bulls getting rid of Boozer is 1. They amnesty his last year 2. They package him with a pick and hope some team that has draft fever takes his remaining two years left.

  • So you think the bulls should go well into the luxury tax for the next two years for a guy who won't play more than 10 minutes a night, just for the shot at a lottery pick in two years? Never mind the fact that if Detroit puts it together next year the pick will be out of the lottery which isn't unlikely. I'll be pretty surprised if Detroit isn't sniffing the playoffs in the next couple of years.

    If anything, not doing this trade just made the Charlotte pick that much more likely to be top 3. BG not only soaks up minutes that should be going to young guys with a future who need to grow, but he insures they don't make the playoffs. There are so many better deals the bulls can make I can't even begin to question why they wouldn't do this one. Lottery picks don't cost $20-30 million.

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Charlotte effectively got back the much needed draft pick they never should have traded away, and Gordon, while grotesquely overpaid, may very well be the best player on their crappy team.

    It would have been a good deal for Chicago, too. No one is saying that his signing by Dumars wasn't horrendous. Dumars threw way too much money at Gordon, even if Ben hadn't drastically declined the following season. BG is too one-dimensional to be a starting SG on a Championship team.

    However, he isn't completely worthless - he's not a Jerome James, valuable only as an expiring and nothing else. There have been plenty of times this season, and in the playoffs this year and last, that the Bulls desperately could have used his shot creation. So maybe he's only worth $5 million and should be a sixth man. So you're not really complaining about his $12 mil salary, but the $7 mil that's excessive. The following year, his excessive contract actually becomes a benefit of sorts: it is extremely valuable to have a $13 million salary expiring in the summer that 1) the Bulls can first pay Mirotic enough to come over, 2) Taj Gibson is an Unrestricted Free Agent, and 3) Detroit's pick could be as high as #2 and Charlotte's could be as high as #9 (at least one of the two is likely to come due that summer). It would be a shame to lose out on Mirotic, Taj, or a #2 draft pick because they don't have the financial flexibility.
    So in the end, by my way of looking at it, they would have paid $7 million for Detroit's 2015 draft pick and guaranteed space under the luxury tax (through BG's expiring contract) to sign that pick. If you think that's too much, you have more faith in Detroit than I do.

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    I must be giving Detroit a whole lot more credit, because I think the chances Detroit has a legit shot at the #2 pick in 3 years is zero. Taj will either be taken care of or long gone by then, he won't be a restricted FA with the bulls holding his rights. And this non-deal has no impact on whether or not the bulls have Charlotte's pick whenever it transfers over. As for Mirotic, I still think you need to take into account his off the court opportunities, especially because he is playing in a country that is teetering on the edge of financial ruin, a situation that doesn't lend itself to a lot of endorsement opportunities. For example, the bulls could play a couple of pre-season exhibitions in Spain and get that buyout taken care of if they wanted to. I think the biggest thing keeping Mirotic in Spain is the fact that there are two or three guys ahead of him on the depth chart right now. I doubt he wants to come over and bust his ass just to get 10-15 minutes a night this year or the next if the roster doesn't change.

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    And that doesn't even take into account that trading for BG probably costs the bulls the cap space of three guys in Watson, Brewer and Korver who each do their thing better than BG does anything and who BG can't even begin to replace for on-court minutes. So the bulls still have to go out and sign at least one more guy as starting/backup PG. So now the bulls are paying an additional $5-10 mil x2 for luxury tax for 2 years for a loooooong-shot at the #2 pick three years from now. And their roster is demonstrably less flexible and worse. That's a smart move?

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Thank you, thank you, and thank you again, see my RW sized response to Doug above. Although it is actually much worse than you think.

  • Not wanting to go into the tax this year is ok with me but trying to dump Noah or Deng for peanuts to avoid the tax would be outrageous unless we get a good return (top 5 pick). I'm just hoping they fork over a few million and buy another draft pick they could use on a backup point guard if they go for a shooting guard with their 29th selection. Guys like Jared Cunningham or Doron Lamb could pay dividends down the round with a high second round pick. If they are so terrified of the tax, all they have to do is trade Rip hamilton into cap space, because he is an expiring contract somebody probably would take him and then replace him with dolonte west or someone like that.

  • Lots of stuff to think about. It comes down to two things, in my opinion: talent evaluation and a cost/benefit financial strategy.
    1) It looks like the Bulls want to make some moves for the draft. They will try to do that, but they have to find partners. Sure, if they can trade Korver, Watson, etc. for picks, they will likely do it.
    The Asik for 2 picks from Houston looked decent, but I don't think they can trade Asik because he is a RFA.
    2) There really ought to be a better deal than that Gordon trade with Detroit. I agree with Bigway on that. The other factor on the Gordon trade - maybe the Bulls do not want to go deep into the luxury tax this season for a .500 season. They could get the same lottery pick by washing the season, plus avoid the tax.

    Remember, too, they may be willing in the future to go into the tax for one season or two for a superstar. But that becomes far too costly if it causes a third season into the tax. Avoiding the tax now gives more fllexibility in the future. In this cap era, sound financial planning has become critical.

    3) As for Reinsdorf, he OKed some big FA signing, Wallace and Boozer, but how did those work out? He OKed the big contract extensions for Deng and Noah, but some are saying those are now problems. If you were him, how much confidence would you have in your FO? Why should he believe Gar/Pax if they tell him the Bulls should acquire so-and-so for a big price? If he's not gunshy, he's and idiot - and he's not an idiot!

    Early on in his GM career, Pax did well to grab Gordon, Deng, and Nocioni, all in one season. And he got Duhon cheap. Since then, he's been a mixed bag.

  • First of all why would the Bulls give a shit about saving the pistons money?

    Why is it so important that the Bulls obtained another pick from the Cats?

    Why would the Bulls want Gordon back? I dont care what he did while he was with the Bulls that is the past he choose to take the pistons offer and now in the last 3 years he has done?

    Nothing and some of you think his coming back to the Bulls he will become a major factor. man please Ben has what he wanted the cash now let Ben die like he did when he decide to join the Pistons.

  • In reply to BullySixChicago:

    Double Thank you again.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    No thank you I had to support what you said so many on here are whining about the britch Gordon as if he would define the Bulls attempt at becoming champs.

    Furthermore why would anything the Bulls do would they help the pistons? I believe without a doubt that Dumars, signed Ben becasue of his hate for the Bulls and he thought he was stucking it to the Bulls. Many on here still dont understand the dislike of the Bulls for the Pistons, many will say thats in the past, past my ass as long as Reinsdorf, and Paxton are with the Bulls that dislike of teh Pistons will stay.

    Any Bulls fans from the days of the (no hand shaking after you get your ass kick Pistons) dont feel shit for the Pistons and even more dislike for Ben signing with them.

  • Luol deng to the Warriors for draft pix. Stay tuned.

  • Marginal Utility of a Championship

    My comments on Jerry Reinsdorf remain the same. He's an incredibly bright and self-made millionaire. He's not cheap. He's just smart. (And I think he prefers baseball over basketball, just guessing.)

    How many times have we heard Kenny Williams talk about how White Sox attendance dictates how much they can spend? And then they spend some more anyway? There's big money in filling up Cellular Field if anyone can figure out how to do it.

    But the United Center is always full when the Bulls are playing. Going into the luxury tax with high paid NBA mercenaries will only extend the playoffs a bit, probably not enough to offset higher salaries and NBA luxury taxes.

    One more dollar spent on a good/great White Sox acquisition has a better chance of increasing attendance and profits.

    One more dollar spent on the Bulls will not improve UC attendance. It may extend playoff revenues but Thibodeaux coaches so well that's assured in the last 2 seasons.

    Reinsdorf is serious about spending to win, but his main focus is winning baseball games, not basketball games.

  • i'm sorry, didn't i say a billion times that we needed to get ben gordon, on these threads. we just passed up a huge opportunity. man i'm pissed.

  • In reply to mepeterser2451:

    get Ben for what? Did you not understand his game when he was a Bulls 1 good game 2 bad games and he cant cover a man with no legs.

    Sure you think after 3 years with the sorry pistons that Ben would have been factor for them, was he?

    The only player from those days that I hate that the Bulls gave up on was Chandler, I hated when they sign that Bum Ben wallace and allow Chandler to move on.

  • Before everyone goes crazy over this, it is possible that they have something else in mind. Besides, they might like Hamilton's defense over Gordon's offense. The Bulls don't have Hinrich to cover Gordon's man anymore, so they might not want to go down that road. Or they think that the guy at pick 29 will be better than Gordon. Another possibility is that they don't want to deal with him at all. I don't think they ended things on good terms when he left so there might be some bitterness toward each other. Hinrich got a video tribute, Gordon did not.
    As for the cheap owner idea... I have a hard time saying someone who spends a million here and a million there is cheap when I'm buying $12 shoes at Walmart.

  • In reply to PaBullfan:

    You can't compare NBA owners to normal people. That they are not. You should only compare him to other NBA owners and I think thats what people are doing when they call him cheap or that he runs his organization ( Which I believe is one of the most profitable) like a small market team that struggles to get butts in the seats.

  • Basically the team cannot be built around Thibodeau. He actually needs to go back to high school with his antics. Deng needs to pack his broken wrist and his charity allstar selection and go to England. This team is an 8th seed who will go one and out without Derrick.

  • In reply to sammy:

    Well I agree with your first sentence I don' t think the Bulls should bring in system players anymore to fit Thibs. Instead finding athletic wings that fit along side Rose would be my direction with this thing. I'm sick of trying to look like Boston and watch them grind out games in a defensive battle.... which sometimes is really boring basket.

    It was really sad to see some of the Bulls playoff games to be moved to like not even nationally televised games. They really are a god awful offensive team I mean I saw a few times where Noah was getting touches in the post. Thats when you know you're screwed. I want the players round Derrick to be able to get their own shots. Thibs can then coach him up to the system no more keith bogans bs.

  • In reply to SoulEater7:

    First - every Bulls playoff game, and every NBA playoff game is nationally televised. Maybe you didn't care to watch, but plenty of us sat through quadruple-headers on TNT, ESPN and ABC. They didn't leave anyone out.

    Second - I would argue that the Bulls would be bettter off getting more input from Thibs, not less. There is no way that Thibs wanted Carlos Boozer on this squad when he was a free agent. Boozer was well known as a massive defensive liability and was signed because the Bulls lost out on LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, and Joe Johnson. He was a consolation prize, and the front office did not want to look like they were shut out. But he was not a Thibs player.

  • all these "deals" and "machinations" are good fodder for the Sam Smith types who fancy themselves "Amateur" GM's but the problem ACTUALLY lies with our GM and President- Gar/Pax...
    They have "shot-their-wad" with this 2012 team and, got burned like a guy picking up a hooker on Roosevelt And Cicero. Now they are gun-shy.

    I'm of the opinion they should tell Rose-
    "see you in 2013-14,
    Deng too if he's gonna forgo surgery to play in the Olympics.
    Amnesty Boozer-NOW- TANK next season, get back into the lottery and, (with OUR luck) we'll get a 6" 10'- 2-way player who can guard anyone from Bron-to-Melo-to-Wade.
    If Gar/Pax had the "stones" they'd do this. Who wants to see Boozer score 18-meaningless points get 10 rebounds (1/2 from missed f-throws) and knocking over his guards as he yells-"gimme that"- next year?.
    Watch Noah get 1-year older, more disinterested, as the team languishes around the 7, 8th seed, while he suffers his "annual" ankle-leg injury.

    Bulls went- "all-in" in 2012 and they crapped-out.

    Blame Thibbs for leaving Rose out there for those meaningless 79 seconds and Gar/Pax for signing Carlos Boozer.(The worst free Agent Signing EVER!) HE is a total fraud.
    Boy can this team throw money at the wrong free agents.
    I'm glad you guys got ideas. I say- "Blow-it-all-up". Tank the season, be ready in 2013,14

  • Worst free agent signing ever? Rashard Lewis isn't giving up that title anytime soon. Thibs should be in high school? You guys are nutty.

  • The problem with Chicago fans u do alot of talking and no action. Start boycotting games and hit owners in the pockets that the only way for change. Quick history lesson 2 baseball teams 1 championship in 60 plus years, Bears 1 championship in 40 plus years, Blackhawks hockey team 2 championship in 50 plus years, Bulls 6 championship in 14 years with Jordan 0 in the other 50 years. The 3rd largest most populated city in the USA, 3rd wealthiest in the USA and this is the product we put out. 1 sports team from NY, LA, Boston has more championships then all of our teams combined because they expect nothing less but championships and the fans http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-confidential/2012/06/ben-gordon-trade-shows-bulls-not-serious-about-spending-to-win/#submitmake sure the owners know this.

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