Derrick Rose has a torn ACL, how do you like your panic?

So at a minimum, Derrick Rose will miss the rest of this season and almost certainly the start of next season. A groin injury no longer seems so bad. The worst thing about the injury is there's no telling just how much it will affect the Bulls. At a minimum, they've lost any realistic shot at the title this year.

The downside is much, much worse

For an athlete like Derrick Rose who relies on his explosiveness, to tear an ACL can be a career changer. Typically the recovery time for an ACL is nine months to a year, and many people never come back. Fortunately, the recovery from ACL surgery has come a long way in the past decade.

It used to be that when an elite athlete tore an ACL they rarely came back the same. The injury certainly isn't the death sentence it once was. Also, the recovery from any injury is always easiest when you're under 26, so Derrick stands a very good chance at completely recovering.

The bad news is that the Bulls chances at the title this year are effectively over, and their odds for next season are going to be significantly reduced as well as even if Rose comes back towards the end of the season, he likely won't have regained his explosiveness by the playoffs.

There's also some chance that this is a complete career changer, and Rose never comes back to play at the same level he played at in the past. In the worst case scenario, this injury could effectively end Rose's run as a top five player in the NBA.

Roster changes

While we'll analyze the roster more in the off-season, it immediately becomes clear that C.J. Watson's non guaranteed contract will be picked up. The Bulls will also likely need to find another PG for next season as Rose will likely miss at least half the season and play at a sub par level the other half.

Final thoughts

Get well Derrick. It's a crushing injury for the entire city of Chicago, but I feel for Rose who's a tremendous competitor who's gone through so much this season.

Comments

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  • The human body does have limits.

  • I say you don't bring him back at all next year unless it's at 100% after seeing how compensating for an injury causes unforeseen consequences.

  • Not much can be said at this point. It will be interesting to see how the team pulls together through this and I still believe they can do some damage this year. My favorite team now will be any team playing the douche bag Heat. I really hate those a-Holes.

  • In reply to UnstopaBull:

    Well said and I completely agree... They probably celebrated...

  • Yeah, the ACL is the bad one, and the downside is not only the potential loss of explosiveness, it's that lots of athletes tear it again or tear the other knee because they over compensate.

    I wonder if the Bulls look for a PG in the draft now, they don't really have the space under the tax to bring in a vet.

  • Complete and utter disbelief. I think the worst thing about it is I saw it live.

  • Unfortunately Rose will never recover to where he was before. And the Bulls will be good enough to prevent them getting decent draft choices. AND management doesn't have a history of acquiring elite players through trade. So that's pretty much it for the next decade. Fuck the world, right?

  • In reply to Dave:

    "Unfortunately Rose will never recover to where he was before."

    He will be back at the same level of performance once his rehab is over... we just might not see this version of Derrick again as he might move to build his midrange game so he becomes less reliant on his driving... but with a full rehab it should always be there for the taking if he wants it.

    ACL tears are not the end of the world... just a long wait till the world comes back.

  • This could be career ending.

  • In reply to Er Pupone:

    No its not, its just an ACL.

  • Too much wear and tear on Rose. I will say this again like I have always been saying, the kid needs help, too much pressure to score, too much too much of a load for a point guard. The Bulls imo need to make some big decisions after this playoff run cause Rose cant keep abusing his self with explosive drives to the basket, especially now and in the future.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I'm extremely afraid the opposite will happen. Whereas if the Bulls lost fully healthy to the Heat in the ECF again (which seems likely given how they absolutely demolished the Knicks today and have turned it "on" so to speak), they might have made those changes. Now they might just try to get everyone healthy and then see how it goes aaagain.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    I'm with you, this and Deng's looming surgery mean that next year could be an entirely wasted year.

    Management might then decide to stand pat or enter a holding pattern waiting to see what happens the following year 2013-14, when/"if" Rose and Deng are healthy.

    How they handle the amnestisization of the Matapussy will likely be the key sign of how they plan to proceed. In the shock of the day, I cannot say with certainty whether the Rose situation makes it more or less likely. I say less, if they decide to stand pat, more if they decide to try to compete.

    If we bring everybody back, we are in the $85 million dollar payroll neighborhood, about $15 million over the tax line, meaning Reiny has to shell out $100 million for what will likely be a .500 team for at least the first half of next season.

    another interesting question, does Rose's situation now affect Deng's decision on when/if to have surgery. If he does it after the Olympics we will be without both of them for a good part if not all of next season.

    I am never getting up before noon(West Coast) to watch another Bulls game, the blowouts were bad enough, but this feels almost as bad as the day that Jordan retired for the first time in 93.

    Well, I guess that we don't have to worry about home court advantage throughout the playoffs next season.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Isn't Deng's surgery a 3 month recovery? Given the Olympics finish in early August, he should be back in early November, ie hardly any time missed (although he'll naturally be rusty).

    If the Bulls can manage to repeat what they did without Rose this year they'll be a top 4 seed, and by the playoffs there's a good chance Rose can be back at full speed.

    I don't think next year is a write off just yet.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    "If we bring everybody back, we are in the $85 million dollar payroll neighborhood"

    What?

    http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/bulls.jsp

    Even if we pick up all 3 guaranteed contracts, AND Asik's QO, the payroll will be right around $78 million. Take away Brewer, who isn't really needed, and the payroll is around $74 million.

    Replace Korver with a veteran ring-chaser who will play for the minimum, and the Bulls are under the Luxury Tax threshold.

    I know the FACTS don't make for a good "the sky is falling" post, but they are what they are.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    You're not going to bring Asik back for the QO, that's a silly number to inject into the conversation. You have to assume a bare minimum of 5 million if you want to keep Asik.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    You need to look up the meaning of facts, and get them right for once. As usual you just prefer to be a disagreeable douchebag.

    Unless you pull your "FACTS" out of your Paducaville ass, here are the real facts.

    Fact #1, I said, if the Bulls bring everybody back, which is more likely now that both Rose and Deng will miss the beginning of the season the payroll with be in the $85 million neighborhood.

    Fact #2, the Bulls have 10 players under contract(including options) for next season at $76 million. Thus, the starting point is $76 million.

    Fact #3, Asik needs to be resigned as a restricted free agent. 4-5-6-8 million per, who knows. That puts the Bulls at $80-84 million for 11 players.

    Fact #4 , the minimum roster is 13 players so the Bulls still need to sign 2 more. Add a million for the first round pick, another 1 to 3 for a veteran and that comes to $82-$87 million.

    Fact #5 No one suggested that the sky is falling, I just pointed out the reality of our tax situation for next season, now complicated by the fact that we will be without our best player and our only star for most if not all of next season.

    Fact #6, as you almost, by accident pointed out, the Bulls either have to dump Boozer, or some combination of Brewer, Watson, Korver or Asik and replace them with minimum level scrubs to be at or near the $70 million tax threshold.

    Fact #7 and the most obvious, you've been a raging jackass from the first sentence of your first post. Don't know why you chose to present yourself in that way,but hey, don't feel too bad, there is still hope for you, Skip Bayless and Steven A Smith made a career of it.

    Go back to playing with yourself and your zero followers at your Paducaville blog, come back when you have something intelligent to say, which appears to be never.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    AGREED, Reese1. Please read my longer response below.

  • as i have said many times before, Rose should have been traded while he was so way way overrated. What is he made of? glass. look how many times he has been injured time and time again after coming back for just one game.

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    I would like to know if he tore his LCL, MCL, or Meniscus as well with this injury. Its pretty common to tear the Meniscus and a tear of the LCL or MCL can happen as well, though those are not usually a full tear. I know when I tore my ACL I managed not to tear the Meniscus and only sprain the LCL. Because of that my time to come back to full use on a basketball court was only six months. I had to work extremely hard to get there but I did the knee I tore the ACL in is actually stronger than my other now.

    So there is hope. It really just depends on how severe the other ligaments held up and how much work needs to be done. If its just replacing the ACL & if his body heal well then we can hold out hope for the explosive D.Rose we know to come back. Unfortunately that is more of a best case scenario.

  • this might be the end of this edition of the bulls. Rose will never be the same player... you could be looking at rebuild within 3 years

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Wrong. Its just an ACL. Long as he doesn't let it get to his head he'll be back.

  • Bah, I wrote a huge reply and lost it to the "you're posting too fast" nonsense even though it had been a solid five minutes.

    Anyways, Doug, I feel you are overreacting to the severity of this injury and the potential it has for long term effects. Recovering from an ACL tear is not as big of a deal as it used to be. Recovery time is typically 6-9 months depending on conditioning/setbacks and athletes routinely come back at pre injury levels of performance.

    Look at the career of any professional skier and you will see numerous ACL tears, after which they come back to compete at elite levels time and time again. You may question the correlation between skiing and basketball, especially when regarding an explosive, agile player like Derrick... but professional skiing (Slalom/GS/Super G/DH) compares favorably with any sport at any level. The lateral loads, compression loads, alternating loads, load instability and explosiveness a skier faces is absurd. Take a look at how these guys come back from seemingly severe knee injuries and you should feel a bit better about the situation.

    Keep an eye on the beginning of 2013, he'll be back.

  • In reply to untitledreality:

    When you get "you're posting too fast" try hitting the Refresh Button on your browser. This works for me.

  • I just hope derrick doesn't end up another Brandon Roy, a talented player with bad legs. I know some people want to hang Thibodeau but the training staff has to get equal blame if he wasn't properly looked after. The Bulls, regardless how the rest of the playoffs go HAVE to make moves, try to get a great veteran like Steve Nash who would fit well with his great character and passing to our bigs. I'm sick of watching the knicks and Heat get all the good veterans while we can't even land a mediocre bench warmer like Joel Pryzbilla. We always wanted derrick Rose to play off the ball some to showcase his post skills, they really need to find him that creator/dribbler to take pressure of of him when he does come back in a year or so. Maybe I would even put that charlotte pick into play to land tall pg Kendall Marshall from north carolina, a nice combo guard.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    Yeah I pretty much agree with you that the Bulls will have to make some moves cause Rose will probably be out til 2013-14 season. He won't be on the floor til maybe Feb. next year all depends how his rehab goes. Bigway might be right that the Bulls may have to amnesty Boozer to sign other free agents. Bulls if they let Boozer go should look into bringing in Eric Gordan, Steve Nash could be point guard til rose comes back or maybe even bring in Jamal Crawford or Nick Young who also will be unrestricted free agents. But the Bulls will definitely have to make some major decisions if they want to stay a championship contender.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    Another strategy they could use is first trying to get a veteran like billups, nash or hinrich. Now is the time they should use that charlotte pick/packaged with Omer Asik and draft Austin Rivers(6'4") combo guard that can give us some of the things derrick did like dribble drive and his outside shot is pretty decent. He won't be a fill in since he is a natural scorer and the young shooting guard we always wanted. With the late first round pick they can go for Fab Melo, a promising young center that can develop under Thibodeau's leadership. It's not the end of the world, with some moves, the Bulls can still be a dominant team next year but they're going to have to make some tough decisions. Austin Rivers is exactly what the doctor ordered for this Bulls team that lacks creators/drivers and players that can create their own offense. GO BULLS

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    There's not much similarity with Roy. Roy had no knee cartilage and was playing bone on bone. There's nothing you can really do for that because it's degenerative. This isn't degenerative.

  • In reply to Defense-Rebound13:

    Wow, that's a pretty intriguing thought. I'm not up on the salary figures, and I imagine it'd be impossible to sign Nash without amnestying someone (likely Boozer), but there are some serious upsides to going after him.

    First, we could sell him on the all-for-one-one-for-all nature of this incarnation of the Bulls. His approach to the game would reinforce what we already have going.

    Second, we could sell him on the opportunity to help teach Rose to play a more court-vision oriented game. Again, this would be both enticement for Nash to come, and a huge perk of having him here.

    Third, he'd turn Gibson, maybe even Asik, and someday Mirotic into more active, efficient offensive players.

    Fourth, he might be able to bring us a title, especially f Korver keeps playing well, Deng recovers, and we snag a Nick Young-style scorer.

    I'm sold. Pursue Nash, starting now.

  • thonus might be right this training stuff sucks ass. Here's hoping rose doesnt become grant hill 2.0. Maybe he should just be traded to the suns now so he can have a decent career.

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    One name comes to mind if you want to be optimistic: Jerry Rice. He tore his ACL at the age of 33 and came back very strong for three more seasons. I know people will also point to guys like Al Harrington and Bonzi Wells. But, who could say either of them possessed the drive of D-Rose? His recovery is all about mental toughness and drive, giving him a better prognosis than most.

  • I would caution anyone who thinks that DRose is "done" or won't be the same player. Only his doctors and he will know that. His injuries were ominous to me because he was not 100% that last week when he played. There were several times in the game today when he went to elevate on drives and couldn't. There were too many injuries to his lower body that had a accumulated affect on his joints. Ask any doctor and they will tell you that even a toe or ankle injury can force thing to be off somewhat. Don't bet against DRose...He has a lot of moxie. Let be patient and see what is doctors say. That's the safe route for all Bulls fans to take...

  • I pin this on the entire bulls organization that relied too heavily on Rose to carry the team. And allowed Rose to return before properly recovering from FIVE different but related injuries this season - toe/back/groin tear/ankle/foot.

    Doug posted two excellent articles about the better NBA training staffs and Bulls are not one of them.. We would all do well to reread the excellent blog by Doug from Monday April 23, 2012, including the two linked articles. http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-confidential/2012/04/can-the-bulls-do-anything-to-work-through-injuries-better/

    I've been saying on this blog since March 12 that Bulls need to rest Rose and allow him to fully recover from his injuries, and baby him for the 1st and 2nd round of the playoffs by greatly reducing his minutes. Thibs is A TOTAL IDIOT for how he handled Rose - and Gar/Pax must share the blame for allowing Rose to be played (and with heavy minutes) before he was healthy.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I think more blame should land on the medical staff than Coach Thibs. If you're worried a player is so fragile he's going to have some freak injury in a few minutes of playing time, you wouldn't have him out on the floor in the first place. The medical staff has the responsibility to determine when Rose can safely come back.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    Hunter, did you read Doug's blog from Monday April 23rd? And read the two linked articles about the Phoenix Suns and Portland Trailblazers training staffs, and trainers Aaron Nelson and Zig Ziegler?

    I'd bet serious money that if Suns head trainer Aaron Nelson examined Derrick Rose he would have refused to let him play due to several related weaknesses and imbalances that made a major injury highly probable, even predictable, and that Rose was nowhere near ready to return to action.

    Bulls rushed Rose back from injury only to see him get reinjured THREE TIMES within three weeks! THREE REINJURIES IN THREE WEEKS! And some fans and media are calling this ACL a fluke?!? It wasn't a fluke it was predictable that Rose would get reinjured once again in the playoffs.

    It was obvious to even casual observers Rose was nowhere near 100% and yet Thibs and Bulls road this kid into the ground. They brought him back too soon, played him too long, and road him until the wheels fell off, literally.

    And many people, myself included, saw a reinjury coming in the playoffs. Listening to Thibs revolting postgame comments about how injuries happen, its part of the game, nothing could be done, blah, blah. THE MAN IS A MORON when it comes to players' health.

    Yes, Jerry Reinsdorf, needs to hire a new training staff. And put both a muzzle and leash on this IDIOT BULLDOG of a head coach, BEFORE he extends his coaching contract.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I can't definitively say that the Bulls staff is any better or worse than the rest of the league. However, one thing that has always been an issue with me was Roses off season training choices. Hanging out in LA, and not signing up with Tim Grover as his own #1 personal trainer.

    Grover is the guy responsible for making/keeping both Jordan and Pippen into virtual ironmen. If I was Rose, the first thing that I would have done when I got to Chicago, was to hire Grover to work with me exclusively.

    This might be where Rose's anti superstar attitude has worked against him. He certainly could have learned a lot by seeking out Jordans advice. I am pretty sure that Jordan knows a little bit more about the game and winning than do Rose's brothers and his mother.

    The second thing that I've always said about Rose is that the way that he plays he makes everything into a too high degree of difficulty play, causing a ton of stress on his body. The play that he got hurt on is a perfect example. He is always putting on contortionist, gymnastic type moves, so while I might want to blame Thibs for having him in the game at that point, this injury was almost inevitable.

    To me it will be very interesting to see how he responds to this type of adversity. I am not convinced that he will attack this the way Jordan did/would have. It is time to put the Mama's boy to bed for good. This will be the ultimate test, even moreso than winning a championship. He may or may not be the same player ever again, but he could come back a much stronger competitor, something like Gale Sayers did after his devastating knee injuries. We shall see.

  • Oh stop. I can't stand the 'THIS IS THE ORGANIZATION'S FAULT!' argument. They sat Rose out for a long time before finally letting him play again. Not to mention, this is the front office that ACTUALLY STRANGLED Vinny Del Negro for overplaying a recovering Joakim Noah. Do you think they changed their philosophy with Rose? No.

    It was a freak injury, plain and simple. Could it had been a cumulative effect of the other injuries? Maybe. But it wasn't an injury you could have predicted.

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    If we want to place fault on someone lets be fair. Its the coaches fault for putting Rose in when the Bull's were winning. It was leagues fault for forcing 65 games into this short season and then starting the playoffs in April rather than May. It is the Miami Heats fault for signing LBJ & Wade because had they come to the Bulls it would have taken a lot of pressure off Rose.

    There now that I blamed everyone possible let me say. This shit happens. Is this like the worst time possible for the player who most deserves a Championship? Yes it is. Does it mean he is DONE? No that depends a lot on severity of the tear and how well it heals post surgery. Do I feel HORRIBLE this happened? HELL YEAH! I feel for him so much. I been where he is before, but NEVER with that pressure or with so much on the line when it happened.

    All this said, lets try to be positive. Positive energy leads to positive results. Well wishes and prayers are going to do more than speculation about if D.Rose will ever be the same.

  • This line from Sam Smith's latest column makes me the most sad I've been about it: "He’s become a good shooter and passer and there’s no reason to think he cannot still be an All Star point guard."

    Derrick Rose isn't just an All-Star player, he's an MVP players, it's going to be so terrible if that statement isn't true anymore when he comes back.

    Derrick hates publicity in general, I wonder how he's coping with the intense media interest for this. *Sigh*

  • The more I think about the injury to Rose the more pissed I get cause this could've been avoided during this past off season. Bulls management and owner knew this team as constructed has a problem scoring during critical stretches and did nothing in free agency about it. But that old excuse about going into the luxury tax came in to play and nothing was done, now the Bulls franchise player may be gone for maybe a year or longer and the Bulls championship contending days are almost certainty over for now. The Bulls owner rode Rose to the wheels fell off literally, so now what? Is this what it takes for the owner of the Bulls to finally have to bring in more scoring options for the team? If so the jackass owner of the Bulls need a reality check and I think he has gotten it with Rose injury. I want to see how he gets pass this, although I'm sure he will find a way.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    I don't think the dots will be connected to DRose doing too much and the Bulls needing more offensive weapons, specifically another ball-handler who can beat you off the dribble. I wish, though. Maybe they'll get lucky in the draft and someone like MarShon Brooks could be available, oh wait.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    The Bulls had the MLE to bring in a scorer, they brought in Rip Hamilton. Had Hamilton not gotten hurt, he'd have been the best of the potential FA signings. Richardson and Crawford certainly look worse.

    This idea that "The Bulls just need to go get another scorer who can create his own shot and take the pressure off Rose" is ridiculous if the statement isn't ajoined by a list of guys they had an opportunity to get and passed on.

    Every team would love to just go get a star player who can create his own shot and score, but there aren't a lot of them available, and the Bulls aren't packed with trade assets.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    MarShon Brooks was on the draft table. He probbly wouldn't have had the injuries he did with the Bulls considering he wouldn't get starter's minutes. Bring him and Rip in, and all of the sudden, who's talking about struggling to score? That was an option. Another option was making a trade for any number of guys.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    You are correct, Hunter. Bulls executed an excellent draft day tradeup from No.28 to No.23 for just a 2nd round pick. Bulls are to be commended for that move.

    However, instead of drafting Marshon Brooks at No.23, Bulls went the 'delayed gratification' route by taking Nikola Mirotic who won't come to Bulls for 3 years. That's 3 years of Derrick Rose's prime wasted waiting for the 2011 draft pick to arrive on the roster and start contributing.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Assuming Mirotic comes over for the 2014-15 season, Rose still won't be in his prime yet.

    He will turn 26 in October of 2014, which is pretty much the minimum age that a player starts coming into his prime.

    Derrick is 23 1/2 right now, he's not even CLOSE to his prime. Not even close.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    I consider the prime for an NBA player today to be 25-29 given how athletically-focused the league is these days. Maybe a tad earlier for a player like Derrick who's so freakishly fast and athletic. D-Wade is 30, would anyone say that he's in his prime? Small penetrating guards tend to burn out faster. It wouldn't hurt at all if DRose worked harder on his mid and long range shooting; that's definitely going to come in handy.

    @Edward They could have parlayed a deal to get them both Mirotic and Brooks. Reports came out at the time that the Bulls wanted Jimmy Butler and not Brooks because he shut him down in a workout. More offensive weapons on a Bulls team lacking them wouldn't have hurt either.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    I wouldn't necessarily argue with 25-29, considering how young players are coming into the league nowadays.

    I'd still probably go with ~27-32 though, only because the great ones get better with experience and they learn how to do things better even after they lose some of their athleticism.

    And I would also agrue that DWade is still in his prime at 30. They are very similar players, and I wouldn't be surprised if Derrick (like Wade) eventually becomes a SG, starting next to a PG who is a good 3-pt shooter and defender.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    Hunter, yes I read those reports that about the Butler-Brooks workout. And yes, I too thought about how great it would have been to draft both Brooks and Mirotic. Marshon Brooks was the guy I wanted myself, but knew Bulls had no chance for Brooks at No. 28.

    How do you design the moves to acquire both Brooks and Mirotic? Brooks was available at 23 after Bulls executed an excellent tradeup from 28, but are you assuming Bulls could have taken Mirotic at No.30? Mirotic dropping to 30 is a flawed assumption.

    Bulls would have had to engineer another tradeup from No.30 to ??? There is no evidence to show another team was willing to trade down to 30. In fact, picks 25, 26 and 28(again) were all involved in draft night tradeups AFTER Bulls selected Mirotic with No.23. And Bulls had no more 2nd round picks for 2011 or 2012 to trade

    OKC, Celtics, Dallas, SA Spurs were all drafting before 30. Those are all savvy teams. I'm sure Bulls felt one of them would have taken Mirotic before 30. Bulls have been burned before assuming a Euro would drop down to them in the draft. See Marc Gasol andAaron Gray in 2007 draft.

    imo, we can criticize Bulls for taking Mirotic over Brooks, But I don't think we can assume Mirotic was available at 30. And again, I too wanted Marshon Brooks and thought Bulls had no chance for him at 28 (which was correct).

  • I cannot believe the sky hasn't landed on the top of my head yet.

    I guess the "18" in that 18-9 the Bulls went this year without Rose were all flukes?

    I guess the 55 games the Bulls won the first time MJ retired were all lucky wins.

    Some people really don't seem to understand basketball. No clue what an outstanding team Gar/Pax has put together.

    Rose missed what, 6 games his first 3 seasons, and now he's Brandon Roy? Now he has bad legs? MJ missed more games in his 2nd season than Rose has missed in his first 4 combined, that seemed to work out OK.

    If there were an internet 25 years ago, it would be "MJ can't hold up, he has a weak foot, he'll never recover because his whole game is dependent on his athleticism".

    The Rice analogy was a great one, I'll add Wes Welker to the mix.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    No, they weren't flukes. They were regular season victories. The Spurs ended with the second best record regular season last year and promptly got knocked out in the first round.

    The Bradon Roy comparison is a just a fear, I'm sure. Now with this torn ACL, Derrick does have a significant knee injury. It's not as though people aren't getting worked up for nothing. On Tuesday the Bulls will play, but Derrick won't. That's something.

    Michael Jordan recovered from that injury and it was great. There are plenty of players you can point to who didn't recover from significant injuries.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    MAN PLEASE GIVE OF A REST!!!! THIS is on the Bulls owner and management that Rose is now injured and a significant injury at that. Rose and Jordan are two different types of players. The Bulls during the Jordan era had a top notch training staff and the bozos the Bulls have as trainers today don't seem to have a clue. Let's look at some of the past injuries to Bulls players, Boozer last year was hurt all year, I won't count him and his falling over his bag at home incident, but he had toe issues, Noah was hurt during last year with thumb issues that never really healed til after the season, not to mention the planter foot injuries Noah and Taj a couple years ago. Rip has been hurt all year, Watson has missed a lot of games, and Deng, that's his choice to keep playing. The point is the Bulls needs a new training staff in the worst way and whether any Bulls HOMER fan wants to believe it or not is just too bad cause it is what it is, this is the Bulls owners and managements fault. I would give Thibs a pass cause Philly was making a run on the Bulls and we all know the Bulls can't score in critical situations at times. Again this is not Thibs fault, Rose had to be in the game in the final minutes.

  • In reply to Reese1:

    This season, Carlos Boozer and Ronnie Brewer each played all 82 games for the first time in their careers. Aren't they using the same doctors as the rest of the team?

    Omer Asik was constantly injured in Turkey, he's played in 148 out of 148 career games. I'm assuming he also uses the same team doctors as the rest of the roster?
    _____________________________________________

    Dr. Brian Cole, Midwest Orthopaedics at Rush sports medicine specialist and orthopaedic surgeon, has been voted as the 2009 National Basketball Association (NBA) Team Physician of the Year by the National Basketball Athletic Trainers Association (NBATA).

    The NBATA is comprised of the fifty-seven dedicated athletic trainers servicing the organizations of the National Basketball Association. In addition to the award, the NBATA will be making a $1,000 donation to the charity of Dr. Cole's choice.
    _____________________________________________

    Apparently the rest of the trainers in the NBA are clueless? How could they name this idiot Team Physician of the Year?

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    I am not among those condemning the Bulls staff, but as usual you have to manipulate the "FACTS" even when they are already in your favor.

    According to you , Asik has played in 148 or 148 career games(apparently you are able to add 82 & 66) even if that fact is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Are the playoffs not part of ones career, did Asik not suffer a significant injury in last season playoffs against Miami, and miss the rest of the series.

    In order to have credibility, at a minimum one must present the facts as they are in reality, not as one chooses to for effect.

    Even, when you're right, you're wrong, then again most snarky bastards usually are.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    I have no statistics to back this up, but in my experiences on the internet people only resort to name-calling once their point has been shown to be complete bullshit by the person they are calling names.

    Just an observation.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    People sometimes resort to name calling whan an asswipe trying to promote his own LOSER BLOG WITH NO ACTIVITY intrudes on an excellent, well written, popular blog for self-promotion purposes.

  • Well, I hope this makes clear to Jerry, Gar, and Pax that they have to bring in an All-Star shooting guard.

    Welcome to Chicago, Eric Gordon!

  • In reply to Sluggers:

    His tweet about Derrick was nice, but I think the Bulls should go after (not that I think they'll go after anyone at all) someone with a proven track record of staying healthy. His only healthy season was his rookie reason. Way too much of a gamble. The Bulls already have too many injured players.

  • In reply to Hunter:

    Ok, welcome to Chicago, Louis Williams!

  • In reply to Sluggers:

    I couldn't agree with you more, the Bulls however will have to let some of the bench players go and maybe a starter or two by amnesty or trade.

  • Let's begin the movement now!
    Bulls need to hire a new training staff!

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/paul_forrester/01/22/suns-trainers/index.html

  • In reply to Edward:

    See Also:
    http://zigsports.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/greg-oden-brandon-roy-what-what-happened/

  • In reply to Edward:

    Jerry Reinsdorf himself often wondered why Rose was playing at end of games. Now Reinsdorf needs to take action. Hire a new training staff specializing in biomechanical assessment and sports kinesiology.

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7574970/handling-chicago-bulls-derrick-rose-reminds-jerry-reinsdorf-michael-jordan

  • In reply to Edward:

    How many NBA teams have a training staff that specializes in biomechanical assessment and sports kinesiology?

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    None that have their franchise player suffer 6 related injuries in a single season.

  • In reply to Edward:

    I'll take that as a "none" since you can't name even one.

  • In reply to Edward:

    100% with you on this one Edward!

  • I logged in this morning to see several people beat me to the punch... Rose's ACL injury is the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Too many injuries with Rose to be a coincidence... he even once eluded to the fact that turf toe compensation led to the back problem. We will never know for sure, but I have to believe this ACL tear was due to imbalance of strength and flexability in his legs. Both of Doug's links, which were recaptured in Edward's replies above, really shed some light on how these injuries can be related.

    We must heavily scrutinize our medical staff!

  • In reply to Swish14U:

    They deserve the heavy scutiny, but it's on GarPaxDorf & Derrick himself to involve a more modern biomechanics approach.

  • In reply to Swish14U:

    If Derrick's turf toe was still hurting, why was he playing? Only the player knows if he is in pain, if Derrick told the Dr's he's healthy enough to play, what are they supposed to do?

  • In reply to Swish14U:

    "We must heavily scrutinize our medical staff!"

    Unless you're Boozer or Brewer, who each just played all 82 games for the first time in their careers...

  • You know this is pretty devastating for everyone but the question is what do the Bulls do now?

    Rose and Deng may not play until late next season and may take time to regain their basketball rhythm and endurance. Rose alone may have to change his style of play for awhile until he's strong enough to play again. But there was always a fear back when Rose was drafted that his time in the league may be short lived by injuries.

    Of course we need to see what the playoffs bring but the fallout could be franchise changing. Do you stay with this team or try to rebuild it? What do you do with Boozer and Rip who probably can't make it through another long NBA season healthy? Is Thibs really your coach? I think their is some serious friction between ownership/management and Thibs it's been well documented already.

    It's so difficult to get to this point in the NBA and who knows if the Bulls were even good enough to win it all. My guess is they probably wouldn't have been just because Rose's injuries would have caught up to him anyways. Sadly we may never know how good this team was. It wasn't very durable.

    So do you build a Bulls team without Derrick Rose and geared more towards the future? I think maybe you'll have to consider it. Maybe you start building a team for Derrick Rose 2.0? He's only 23 now so you hope he'll have many more great season.

    I kinda like the idea of Bring in Steve Nash and moving Rose to shooting guard. If they could even get Nash I have no idea how you could do that. Even so thats a short term fix. Man this is crazy to even talk about.

  • I urge everyone to read the 3 links to articles I posted above. The first two articles were originally given to us by Doug Thonus.

    My favorite part of the Sports Illustrated article on Phoenix Suns head trainer Aaron Nelson is the last paragraph where Suns head coach Alvin Gentry states he takes direction from the trainers as to playing time. This is what Bulls need to institute with a new training staff and a team policy with Thibs.

    Let's face the facts, Thibs' Bulls are now 0-2 with Derrick Rose in the playoffs.
    - Last season Rose was obviously fatigued and worn down and his play suffered as a direct result of being rode too heavily by Thibs.
    - This season Rose broke down from injuries due to improper and insufficient rest and rehab, resulting in numerous reinjuries. A failure of the training staff, the coaching staff and management.

    Bulls organization is wasting a once-in-a-generation athletic talent which came to the Bulls by a blind luck 1.7% chance. Reinsdorf gave Rose a $90 million contract which begins next season. Now Reinsdorf needs to assemble a modern training staff capable of handling elite athletes - and force his coach to obey them.

  • In reply to Edward:

    The Suns have finished above .500 once in Gentry's three seasons, yeah let's follow their lead?

    What's their motto- "We suck, but our guys are healthy"?

  • So how do we go about intentionally tanking next season without destroying the following ones?

    With the top two players out, this could be an opportunity to fix some salary issues and get decent draft picks.

    ...I don't mean to sound callous...I'm as devastated as everyone, but repeating what's already been said doesn't add much to the conversation. For anyone that has the game recorded, it's especially painful how the announcers talk about how explosive and fully healed Derrick looks after so many injuries (Reggie says he's going to have a long, successful playoff run) for the two minutes leading up to the tear.
    I concur on cleaning house on the medical staff.

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    I teared up pretty bad when the MVP chants started while he was on the ground. First time I had a good Bulls related cry since they traded Kukoc away for John freaking Starks

  • In reply to Gringo Rican:

    Tanking is no solution. Seriously what does bring on young players do to help a vet team with a coach that only plays vet guys? Steve Nash or just this squad is the only real solution. We either find a vet PG or we just roll with this and be the 4th or 3rd seed in the East until are players get healthy I would imagine. FUK

  • Has anyone bothered to do a comparison of how many games the Bulls players miss due to injury vs the other 29 teams?

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    I think what is worst about the Bulls is that they have guys who are continually reaggravating injuries and getting compensatory injuries.

    Most initial injuries are largely poor luck. However, aggravating existing injuries and compensatory injuries are due to poor approach by the training staff / coaching staff for not properly treating or pushing guys too hard.

    The Bulls have too much depth to risk health due to overplaying guys, and I think that's where the problem is. I won't say its specifically the training staff, the coaching staff, or the plaeyrs dishonesty about their pain, but there's something going on which is giving the Bulls poor results.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I think a lot of it falls on the players- the Bulls have mostly young guys, and when you're young you think you're invincible.

    I'm sure it leads to rushing back too soon from an injury- outside of something blatant showing up on an MRI or x-ray, if the Dr asks the player if he's healthy and the player says "yes", there's not much the Dr can do.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    One of the primary reasons for a coaching staff, a training staff, and a medical staff is to ensure that players don't just do whatever they want. They don't play however they want; they buy into the coach's offensive and defensive plans. They don't train however they want; they listen to the experts. And they don't treat their bodies however they want; they (and the coaches) receive informed assessments.

    The appropriate structures of authority need to be in place in the organization in order to minimize problems. I'm not saying that the Bulls botched this; I don't know enough about the situation. I am saying that it's ludicrous to shrug and remark, "a lot of it falls on the players" or "there's not much the Dr can do."

    Gentry's Suns may not have won many playoff series, but they maximized their potential by installing and utilizing those structures of expertise and authority.

  • In reply to bzoooty:

    Well-written response, Mr. bzooty!

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Doug,
    What makes the Bulls injury management failures most egregious, imo, is how blatantly obvious it is that Bulls players return from injuries when they are nowhere near 100% or even 90%.

    Rose in particular was greatly subpar upon his three separate returns from injury in April and was routinely played 37-40 minutes in such condition only to suffer compensatory injuries three times in three weeks.

  • This is as devastating a blow to an individual and team as I can remember ever in Chicago sports, but can we at least wait until the playoffs are over before we decide that the Bulls are screwed for the next 5 - 10 years? If DRose had played healthy all year long and went down, then they'd have no clue how to play without him, but he's been out for long stretches and they have a good idea of what they have to do to be successful. I for one have faith in Thibs - he's a system coach who preaches doing the same thing day after day to prepare his team to handle whatever comes along. Let's see how that works first.

  • In reply to FriendofJoakimN:

    "can we at least wait until the playoffs are over before we decide that the Bulls are screwed for the next 5 - 10 years?"

    Apparently, no we can't LOL

    You might enjoy my article "Rose is done for the playoffs- are the Bulls?", since apparently you aren't ready to just give up.

    http://www.chicagonow.com/bullsville/2012/04/rose-is-done-for-the-playoffs-are-the-bulls/

  • Thibs will not win without a superstar. he is not that great of coach. Don't confuse the regular season with the playoffs. there are 2 different levels of intensity. What they did in the regular season is not the same. No team wons titles without a superstar and the Bulls don't have one now.

    The fault is on Thibs and management too. This boy is the franchise player who needed to be protected, especially since he's been nagged all year. Somebody shoulda been smart enough to sit him. He had enough stats to win the game already. The triple double would've meant nothing. We know how great this kid is. Derrick did not have to be in the 1st playoff game to close it out. There are potentially 28 playoff games enroute to a title. Why did he need to be in the first one?
    Thibodeau needs to learn how to preserve players. he's not as good as all think. It's the players, not him.

  • In reply to sammy:

    Sammy,
    You will like this article about how Jerry Reinsdorf questioned why Rose isn't removed from games earlier.

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7574970/handling-chicago-bulls-derrick-rose-reminds-jerry-reinsdorf-michael-jordan

  • I don't think that anyone is making any predictions for the next 5-10 years, but they certainly are not in the championship picture for this season or next, and have little flexibility to do anything about it.

    Their championship hopes ride 100% on Rose being a top 5(which by the way, I don't think that he is yet anyway), all NBA type player. The rest of their roster is a pedestrian collection of role players and all-star wannabes, so comparing them to the 94 Bulls without Jordan is both irrelevant and ridiculous. That Bulls team had Scottie Pippen to lead it. A Pippen who by the way was at least as good(that year in particular) if not better than Rose is or has been to date.

    So until Rose comes back, stays healthy for a while and we know what we have in him, we don't have much more to look forward to than a better version of the Del Bimbo years, scrapping to make the playoffs and lose in the first or second round.

    In the short run, the most that we have to work with is the mini mid level exception $3 something million per, trades and the draft.

    Unless we amnestitize the Matapussy and dump all the non guaranteed contracts, and not resign Asik we cannot get far enough below the salary cap to make any significant free agent moves. So this is our team for the next few years, unless a miracle even greater than 1.7% happens.

    The Bulls have enough to compete in the regular season, maybe even make it interesting for the fans(we might still make the ECF this year), but certainly not nearly enough to be taken seriously as a championship contender, a big let down from where we were with a minute and a half left in yesterdays game.

    Reality bites, it really doesn't matter who is to blame, if anybody.

  • NBA schedule probably not to blame for Rose injury (AP)

    ''There is no evidence that wear and tear, or that kind of issue, playing too much, really has any correlation with ACL injuries in any sport that we've ever studied,'' Dr. David Altchek from the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York said Sunday.

    But Altchek argues that too much playing could actually make a player less susceptible to the injuries that Rose and Shumpert sustained, because they might lack the type of explosiveness it takes to blow out a knee ligament.

    ''In fact, I think if you're tired, you're a lot less likely to tear your ACL because you're not going to be as explosive,'' said Altchek, who has operated on players such as Josh Howard, David West and Purdue's Robbie Hummel, and been a consultant for the NBA.

    Alchek said ACL tears, far more common in female athletes, are scary injuries in that there's little explanation for how to prevent them. He said the non-contact version that both Rose and Shumpert sustained are often more prevalent in the strongest, healthiest athletes.

    ''There really is no evidence of that, in any athlete, that wear and tear, like gradual wearing away of the ACL, is an issue in terms of the injury,'' Altchek said.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-schedule-probably-not-blame-220000598--nba.html;_ylt=AvfxG6MAi9YjhOhWo5A1uX68vLYF

  • Did anyone else shed a tear?.. I felt so devastated, all the way here from sydney, australia.. I'm still gutted by the news.. Get well DRose! We all have your back!!

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