Should the Bulls trade with the Celtics?

Could the Celtics look any more done than they have this season? Granted, a compressed schedule is toughest on an aging team, but the Boston Celtics look truly finished. This is not a team that will go anywhere in the playoffs and may even miss them. The big three era is over.

It was a great gamble Danny Ainge took to put the team together, a successful gamble. He won a ring, but come trade deadline, he'd be wise to shop everyone on the roster to try and build the Celtics back in the future. Pierce, Allen, Garnett? They may all be available if the Celtics are looking like they have 6th seed upside.

Could the Bulls, hoping to win now, make use of any of these players? What would they pay to get them?

Garnett for Boozer

It's an interesting idea. Garnett's numbers are far less than Boozer's, but he plays defense and doesn't waste possessions like Boozer does. Thibodeau would likely trust Garnett implicitly in the fourth quarter, and he wouldn't try and play in the same space Joakim would likely to occupy.

For the Celtics, you could argue that at this stage in his career, Boozer's the better player. He'd also might fit in better with Rondo than Rose is Rondo is more of a passer than a scorer. A Rondo/Boozer pick and roll likely doesn't lead to titles, but it likely leads to something better than a Rondo and ??? pick and roll.

The big problem with Boozer, of course, is the contract. A problem magnified by the Celtics 20 million in cap room next year that would disappear with this trade. Cap room tends to lead to bad contracts anyway, so the fear might not be as bad as it looks. Boozer would only be on the hook for three more seasons after the trade.

That said, both sides probably say no to the deal. Boston for salary reasons, and Chicago because the trade doesn't improve them long term since they can always get away from Boozer's salary numbers with the amnesty clause anyway.

Something for Paul Pierce

It's hard to imagine what something could be outside of Luol Deng, and quite frankly, I'll take Luol Deng over Paul Pierce at this stage of his career. Maybe you can argue that Pierce is a better player right now, but it'd be tough to convince me of it, and if it's not Luol Deng that goes for him then how the hell do you play Pierce and Deng at the same time?

This one simply won't work.

Now the most interesting option...

Korver + Brewer + Charlotte pick for Ray Allen

If the Celtics blow it up, Ray Allen is a nice complement to the roster. The Celtics will be 20 million under the cap next year and strike me as unlikely to take on any non expiring contracts in trade. They may have Dwight Howard dreams, however unrealistic they are [much like ours].

Would the Charlotte pick be enough of an incentive to convince the Celtics to forgo another run at in the playoffs this year? If they're bad enough at the trade deadline then possibly. Could the Bulls even pull it off with just their own first rounder instead? Not likely unless the Celtics are way out of the playoff hunt and even then they probably can get more elsewhere.

Replacing Korver/Brewer with Allen would leave the Bulls with a lack of fresh legs and depth at the SG/SF positions. The Bulls could run more C.J. Watson as a two guard if there are injuries and increase Jimmy Butler's role on the team as well if needed.

They'd be considerably weakened defensively without Brewer, and when measuring against Miami you have to weigh Allen's offense against Brewer's defense on both LeBron and Wade. Tough call there.

However, the offensive improvement would be vast. It'd be like having a far better version of Kyle Korver on the floor for far more minutes. If the Bulls went small with a Rose, Rip, Allen, Deng, Noah lineup, they'd have Rose playing alongside three of the best off the ball players in the NBA.

They'd finally have a dangerous shooter they could play 30 minutes a night without fear that he'd get criminally abused on defense.

However, there are problems as well. First off, notice the trend of superstars who've left their team after they've sold out the future and failed to win now. The Bulls should be cognizant of not adding Derrick Rose to that list, and for those who think he'd never leave, Cleveland said the same of LeBron.

Rose was too depressed to move after losing to Miami last year in the ECF. If he doesn't win a championship in the next five years then I think he'll do just about anything, including leaving Chicago, to get one.

Furthermore, how well do Hamilton and Allen really fit together? You're probably not going to play the two together too much, and both are probably looking for more minutes than are really available at the SG position. Plus, if Hamilton continues to struggle with injuries, the team doesn't have much depth to compensate with anymore after we did a two for one trade to get Allen.

It's not a no-brainer for either side of the table. The Celtics may not win a championship with Allen again, but they may be giving up 5-10 million dollars in playoff revenue by jettisoning him from the team. A costly price to pay for a future first that has no guarantees of becoming a great pick and may not come due for a few years.

The Bulls, on the other hand, will lose defensively at the most important position to beat their rival and will need to find a way to make the roster fit work as well as give up on one of the assets that could help them restock with cheap talent in a few years.

In the end, I make this deal if I'm Chicago, would they? Would Boston?

Comments

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  • Your crazy Doug. You can't argue that Pierce is better than Deng or Garnett better than Boozer. Have you seen those guys play this year? They're soooo bad now. and Garnett's D has been about as bad as boozers lately.

  • In reply to dldjr:

    nothing this side of Ben Gordon has ever been as bad as Snoozers defensive effort. Garnett effectiveness has gone away, but I imagine that he still tries to execute his defensive principles some if not most of the time.

    I pretty much dislike Garnett as a PAB(punk ass bitch), but being able to dump MA's contract and not having to puke during nearly every Bulls defensive possesion is worth putting up with Garnett's jerk off personality.

    As Doug said, no chance in hell of happening unless Kevin McHale is involved.

  • Boston would not make any of those trades mentioned. The only guys we have that other teams would want that we could afford to lose are taj and asik and I am not sure we can afford to lose them either.

    No one will take boozer due to his contract and I'm not sure why bulls fans keep bringing him up in trades as though someone would (wishful thinking I guess?). They wouldn't do ray for brew/korver/pick as they could do better elsewhere. That bobcats pick is overrated as its protected out the wazoo and quite a ways away and most gm's don't have the luxury to sit on it. So basically its ray for brewer/korver and as much as I like brewer lol if you think they do that.

    They wouldn't do pierce for deng as they (rightly or wrongly) would think they could do better. I will say though that if it was certain we were getting a mostly healthy effective pierce I do that trade even if we only get a couple of years out of him as I think pierce at his best or 90-85% of his best is better then deng at his best. Problem is there is no way to know that and evidence is showing that he's trending downward.

  • Regarding each of your trade scenarios:

    Garnett for Boozer: If I'm the Bulls, I can't sign on the dotted line fast enough. Anything to dump that hideous Boozer contract. This deal also improves Bulls roster this year, and allows them to resign Asik after this season and Gibson after next season. However, Celtics would never do it. Why would Celtics want that absurd contract?

    Something for Paul Pierce: Bulls not interested in Pierce. At this stage of Pierce's career, Deng is better. Pierce looks old and rickety.

    Korver + Brewer + Charlotte pick for Ray Allen: If I'm the Bulls, I say no to this deal. Charlotte pick is too good (potential top 3) and Brewer too important defensively, to throw away on a player who is 35-36 years old player.

  • Garnett: As Doug said...no way. Have you seen him lately. He is Charles Barkley incarnate without the girth. Boozer can atleast help in the reg season against 70% of PFs in the league. And as you said, Bulls can amnesty Boozer if it doesn't workout or can trade him to a team for a younger talent not older washed-up superstar.
    Ray Allen for Korver+Brewer+Bulls pick. That's the only one I would suggest.

  • I think our biggest trade asset is Omer. The guy is young and has played unbelievable defense. If a team can put him next to a very talented offensive 4 that would make for an excellent front court. If we are looking to make a big improvement Asik is the guy to trade in all liklihood.

    That said, Im not sure we should trade him. Like they said on TNT the other day, this guy looks like one of if not the best young centers in the NBA. I think when/if Mirotic comes over the two of them will fit in very well together.

    Im also not sure why everyone wants to just dump the Boozer salary. Yeah he is not playing like he is worth that money but he is averaging 14 pts and 8 rebounds and only playing 29 minutes a game. Thibs is willing to sit him if he isn't playing well. We are going to be so far over the cap that we cant replace that production with a vet min guy, and its not my money so I don't care if its a waste if it isn't hurting our ability to sign anyone. That said, there is no way that they let Asik and Taj walk, they either sign them and pay the tax or they trade them and get good value.

  • In reply to do53:

    Agree. With Noah's inconsistency, there is no guarantee that he will be a starting caliber center in 2 years. He is going on his old reputation right now. Two years from now, when Boozer's game probably would have declined(hope not) and Noah is still struggling...then Asik is required. We don't know if Mirotic is guaranteed to be a success and even if he is, he is more like a Ryan Anderson type PF than hanging around the rim.

    The other thing I always think is how come Boozer plays well with Asik and not with Noah. Both Noah and Asik are offensively challenged(Asik is worse actually). But what does Asik do on offense which Noah doesn't which helps Boozer?

  • In reply to do53:

    Mr Amnesty's contract will prevent us from keeping both Asik and Taj without dumping Watson, Korver and Brewer.

    Unless JR is willing to go 10-15 or even 20 million into the tax.

    Would you rather have those 5 guys or Bozo.

    That is why you dump MA's contract every day and twice on Sunday if given the chance.

    You don't pay a guy $15 million per to put up 14 and 8 against 70% of the leagues PF( even if that is remotely close to being true).

    You pay a guy that to dominate against most of the league, and in particular against Miami in the playoffs.

  • Ray Allen right now, albeit at 36, Is putting up the following numbers: 3-pt's 4.9 attempts shooting .559, scoring 15.5 ppg on .500 from the field. Last year his numbers were quality as well for a full season least this be an early season fluke or hot streak.

    Chicago sports teams such as the Bears and Bulls are generally seen as conservative in their financial approach and player trades or movement. Why trade away the future for a 36 yr old guy?

    The Chicago inert reasoning will be of course, the Future!

    If winning a championship this year isn't paramount then don't make the trade. If this Bulls team is not on the cusp of winning it all, then I agree with this logic. Or if you feel we have a better chance with Asik or Taj depth and D I get it. But if you can swap Korver, Brewer, and the Charlotte pick as Doug suggested? I don't think there's any chance Boston does this deal unless they get Omer or possibly Taj plus guards and picks.

    Are the Bulls, at the end of the day, setting their sights this season on an NBA Championship? If the answer to that question is yes, then don't you go get Ray Allen?

    If as Doug suggested Korver, Brewer, and the Charlotte pick gets it done, then yes you do it. What if they want Omer or Taj? I know most Bulls fans here would say no. Partly because they know the Bulls and Boston making a trade like this is not going to happen in the first place visa vi Gar/Pax/J-Dorf.

    Could Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton coexist? A stay fresh or play at their peak well rested combo? One night it's RIP with 27 Minutes and the hot hand. The next night, Ray Ray lights it up from three with 30 Minutes. Not to mention a well rested at times D-Rose. And a star and winner like Derrick would just feed of their talent and energy.

    Can you win with Noah backing up Boozer at center(Taj traded)? How about heavy minutes for Jo with Omer gone? Taj and Jo have played very well together in the past.

    I understand if this idea is rejected out of hand. Myself, if I know Gar/Pax, this trade even if possible, is not happening. So it's likely a moot point.

    I will say this: if Boston suffers an injury such as Garnett or Pierce, and just plumett out of playoff contention, then maybe you do a deal for young talent to avoid post run Armageddon, and give Ray another shot at the title.

    What if Miami packages Mike Miller and Mario Chalmers, and throw in Norris Cole if they have to plus picks to get Ray Allen? Win now, and worry about the rest later. Chalmer's, who previously I haven't thought much of, numbers are sick right now by the way. The guy who hit the NCAA Championship shot.

    Now if nobody picks up Ray then no harm, no foul. If however Miami would take the shot, personally I would not be happy about it if we had any chance at what he could provide for this year's playoffs. I agree, as I'm sure most posters here will say, not happening. And I know most would not trade Omer say for a one year rental. Plus you could argue RIP and Ray would get in each other's way minutes wise. Yeah, dumb idea. Forget about it.

    (To myself) Does Ray Allen want to come to Chicago, and escape the SunSetters club for one last shot at the title?

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    I like Ray Allen, but the Heat are not trading their two point guards to get him. Besides, the Heat have enough shooters already, with Miller, Battier, and James Jones.

  • The only one of the three Boston players I think the Bulls would be interested in is Ray Allen. But no way the Bulls trade the Charlotte pick for a 37 year-old. Bulls own pick I would trade, but not the Charlotte pick. If Ray Allen was several years younger that might be a different story.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Thank you, sanity as always. the Allen trade is the only one that make sense minus the Bobs pick.

    If sweetener is required find something else, our picks, money.

    This deal would also likely get Butler more regular playing time as the season progresses.

    Could/would Rip and Ray thrive not just co-exist, that is what would be needed to make it a championship move.

  • fb_avatar

    Man, I dind't even read the article, I just wanna ask one thing: WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THE CHICAGO BULLS MAKING A F****NG TRADE?!?! THE HAVE THE D.E.E.P.E.S.T R.O.S.T.E.R I.N T.H.E L.E.A.G.U.E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONE DOESN'T SIMPLY DISMOUNT A TEAM IN THE SITUATION THEY ARE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I. AM. TIRED. OF. THIS. S***!!!!

  • I agree. in this short season and as deep as the bulls are, the bulls should be able to win it all this year. Miami is the only team in their way. unless they can trade for howard, igodala or mayo, keep this team as it is for this year. they deserve another shot at miami in the ecf. And lol at trading the charlotte pick for a old sg like allen, they already got hamilton, one is enough. And if that charlotte pick ends up being a top 5 pick, there will be good talent to choose from in the 2012 draft specifically at the pf and center positions which can be used to replace boozer or noah.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_nba_draft_college_prospects_111011

  • In reply to rob32:

    Bulls don't get the pick if it is top 5 in 2012. They don't get it if it is top 10 or better until 2015 or 16.

    I hate to say it, but with MJ at the helm the Bobs could be the new Clippers. Which is why you don't give up that pick easily, it could magically end up being a number 1. It is likely our only chance at another 1.7% miracle for the next decade plus.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Agreed! That is what Gar/Pax are betting on - a lottery pick.
    Bulls won't see another of those until Rose declines in his 30s.

    To put it in another perspective, the Charlotte pick is all Bulls have to show for trading LaMarcus Aldridge. OUCH. Let's hope it turns into something really good!

  • Totally agree, I'm happy with our team as is....

  • I wouldn't give up brewer and korver for Allen straight up, let alone with a the charlotte pick. Maybe Rip and butler and a second rounder or two.... Come on Doug, is it really that slow of a bulls news day?

  • In reply to bullshooter:

    Why not? Ray is even at his advanced age a better player and shooter than Korver is, and Butler can probably give you most of what Brewer does without the veteran savvy for now.

  • Deng and Rose are both struggling finding their three point touch this year and most teams are packing the paint and playing zone against the Bulls. If Ray Allen can be had for a decent price, they should do it since I think he still has a few good years left. He is built like Kurt Thomas in the sense that his game is not based on athleticism. His shooting would open up the game for both Boozer and Rose. Plus I think Ray Allen actually believes he can accomplish the 3,000 three pointers made for his career, that would be alot of fun to watch.

  • Ray Allen maybe on the cheap without disrupting anything else (like if you could give them Korver and Rip)....but not for Brewer who we'll need in the playoffs on D imo.

  • Totally unrelated to this blog post, but has anyone else read this article about The White Mamba? He sounds like a funny guy. Does anyone on here that lives in the Chicago area have any cool stories about running into Bulls players out in public?

    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/6750/white-mamba-fan-fave-on-off-the-court

  • Garnett and Pierce have nothing left in the tank. I'd rather complain of boozer and deng than trading for Garnett or Pierce.
    Though, I'd do Brewer and Korver for Allen. But I dont see why celtics would do that.

  • I was watching the Clippers/Dallas game yesterday. I saw a play where they Clippers tried to trap Kidd similar to Rose. The ball handler in the back-court to bring it up...Nowitzki(similar to Noah) did not pass to Kidd. He passed it to Jason Terry on the other side of Kidd. Terry surveyed and hit an open 3 pointer and I think he did take a few dribbles.
    That told the importance of having a second ball handler even without size against Miami. Hope, Rip can do that much as Terry did...shoot an open jumper

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Excellent observation!
    In the limited amount we've seen Rip he seems to really facilitate the offense. Hope he can still do it in a playoff series against Miami.

    Hey, Eddy Curry scored 6 points in 6 minutes for Miami tonight against Lakers.

  • In reply to Edward:

    that is why I suspected all along that Rips value to the Bulls offensive was/is far greater than is reflected by his not efficient enough TS%.

  • I guess Doug and I are the only ones interested in a potential Celtics' fire sale.

    I proposed Noah and Korver for Pierce on my blog, and nobody was for that deal, either. I don't think the Bulls can pay all 4 of their front court "starters", and Asik can replace Noah easily.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Who sits Pierce, Deng or Boozer?

    Don't try and tell us that either Deng or Pierce can start at 2. They cannot. At least not regularly.

    Deng cannot regularly start at 4 either. So what gives.

    If we didn't have Deng and had a major hole at the 3, then trading a 26 year old center for a 32-3 year old small forward might mike make sense to achieve a championship run now, but since we do(have Deng) and we don't(have a hole at 3)?

    Would we be better able to beat Miami right now with Pierce minus Joah?

    If Deng could effectively guard Bosh(I can't say yes or no on this one right now, leaning toward no, Bosh posts him) Then in the short term, it might actually make us better.

    In either case, you are trading Noah at a low point, and Pierce at a point where he has nowhere to go but down.

  • you really want to give away the potential of the Charlotte pick, both as a pick and as future trade bait for whatever Ray Allen has left in those legs, even if they are shooting 60% from 3 right now.

    I agree with your Bozo for Bonzo(Garnett) analysis, both teams say no, but for me the more interesting aspect of that deal is would Joah and Garnett kill each other in practice.

    In general, I see no point in trading our youth for the Celtics age, are we trying to become them 10 years sooner that we need to be.

    The only deal that might make sense contract wise is Bozo for Pierce, but it really doesn't make sense on the floor for either team, and Boston would be foolish under to take MA's(Mr. Amnesty, Missing in Action) contract under any circumstances.

    Bostons only play is to trade the old expensive guys for young cheap talent and picks(meaning they can only deal with teams that are currently significantly under the cap) and max out their cap space for this summer.

    I put up a Snoozer the western conference allstar to the western conference trade the other day. TOAH to Denver for Harrington and Corey Brewer.

    Denver has no actual power forwards on their roster right now, starting Harrington there now, I think.

    I doubt that even Denver is willing to take on MA's contract, but may we could throw in some draft pick sweeteners.

    The biggest negative for us would be losing our ability to use the amnesty clause on bozo and not being able to use it on the out years of Harringtons deal.

    But you might justify paying a designated gunner off the bench $7 million per vs $15.

    I personally, would still like to try to get Scola from HTown and maybe even Kevin Martin also.

    But at the end of the day I am not giving up Asik, Taj, Mirotic or the Bobs pick for anything short of a blockbuster type deal.

  • i wolud just trade kover/taj or just korver/butler and the other 1'st round pick they got from the raptors.. keep watson at the 1 ray allen at 2 brewer at 3 the 4 ??? asik at 5 let allen n rip split the.. min becauses of ageand risk of injury and there u go a second team that can produce and play def.. you still have brewer and you would be giving upbutler off of potential because he is still young

  • In reply to abattoir22:

    The 1st round pick Bulls got from the Toronto Raptors for James Johnson was actually Miami's No. 28 in 2011 which was combined with a 2nd round pick to trade up to No. 23 for Mirotic.

  • I don't like these trade ideas, and they'll never happen. What I am excited about is the team we have now. NBA best record. I'll take it.

  • Yes!! Quickly, trade Noah for some SG help, and then trade for Jermaine O'Neal. What do the Bulls lose by doing this?!?!

  • fb_avatar

    How Bout Ray Allen And Brandon Bass For Carlos Boozer?

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