Bulls slog through a sloppy win

The Bulls were sharp early, they took a 20+ point lead by the middle of the second quarter, but failed to score or play defense for the final four minutes allowing Minnesota to close the lead to six.

The Bulls shot significantly better from the field. They hit more threes, and they should have completely run away with this game. However, they committed far too many turnovers, were victims of a strongly biased home whistle, and did a lousy job of knocking down the free throws they did get.

This just in, Derrick Rose is awfully good

When Rose asserted himself, the Timberwolves had no chance whatsoever. They were utterly dominated. Rose sliced through the lane with the greatest of ease, drained three point shots, and racked up assist after assist. If the refs hadn't swallowed their whistles every time he got knocked around in the lane, he could have had 40.

There was a brief scare when Rose had to go back to the lockerroom due to an ankle injury when Anthony Tolliver fell on him, but Rose returned and didn't seem bothered by the ankle afterwards.

Luol Deng carried the Bulls in the third

The Timberwolves cut the lead to one in the early third, and then the Bulls scored on four straight possessions with Noah knocking in a couple free throws and Luol Deng shooting three for three including a three pointer for seven points. With the T-Wolves only knocking down one basket over that stretch, the Bulls brought the lead back up to 10.

The Wolves would never come closer than four points the rest of the way. Deng looked good in spurts in the game, but also struggled to create a shot at other points.
Luol Deng

Ronnie Brewer looking good again

It must have been an even numbered day because Brewer shot really well from the field again. He scored 17 on just 10 shots, and hit a dagger three at the end of the game to put it out of reach. Ronnie needs to work on his consistency a bit but he's generally scoring the ball at a much higher level this year and his mid range and three point shot are both considerably improved.

If I'd complain about Brewer it would be that he had at least three passes fly through his hands and out of bounds tonight.

Boozer struggled pretty badly out there

Some days you don't have it, and this was one of those days for Boozer. He found some early success knocking down a couple of shots, but he'd only hit one more the rest of the night and road the pine the entire fourth quarter.

If it weren't for the turnovers...

Joakim Noah couldn't hold onto the ball at points, but outside of a high turnover night, he played well. His activity level was very high, and well an 8 point 11 board night doesn't feel all that special Noah did an excellent job of playing free safety on defense.

Taj Gibson and Omer Asik bringing the D

It's amazing the defense the Bulls bring off the bench. These guys both threw down a block party in Minnesota dissuading them from getting anything going inside. Asik even through in a nice post hook shot into the game, showing us signs that his offensive game has gonefrom Doug on a bad day

The team offense was a bit off

The Bulls won fairly easily, and if they had gotten a fair shake from the refs, the game would have been a complete blowout. They shot a high percentage from the field and over 50% from beyond the arc. All that said, I wasn't all that impressed with the offense.

For much of the fourth Rose was running around like a nut looking for a seam in the defense. He typically found one, and he scored efficiently, but the Bulls struggled to get something good out of a lot of their sets if Rose couldn't slice right through and score.

They struggled controlling the ball, and they masked their deficiencies with incredible three point shooting.

Rubio is fun to watch

A typical Rubio performance. A ton of assists, decent scoring, and a crapload of turnovers. You can tell Rubio will be a good one, he plays with elite court vision already and will only get better with more time in the league. That said, he may never have the ability to defend his own position.

Second of three in the books

The Bulls will complete their back to back to back tomorrow night at home against the Wizards. Rose will get to go up against another young up and coming PG and put him in their place.

Comments

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  • I hope it is an easy win tomorrow with the Wizards being the stupid bunch they are; partying big time after their first win. More Butler and Lucas time tomorrow.

    I guess Boozer might show up tomorrow as he was done taking his break today after a good showing yesterday.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Boozer was due for an off game. He's been pretty solid in his past six games. Here' his stats the last six games

    7/10 17 points
    5/13 11 points
    9/15 19 points
    9/19 20 points
    6/11 12 points
    9/13 23 points

  • In reply to Dpauley23:

    You better not stick up for Boozer, you'll get ripped on here to no end.

    And forget posting stats, some people only trust their own eyes, no matter how bad they need glasses.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Is 5 years and $80 million a stat, or are you to blind to read.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    By the way, just had my annual eye exam, still 20-20 even after over 40 years of watching nearly every Bulls game.

    I don't even need reading glasses to read the crap that people like you and Mappy post. Those fumes at the gas station must be getting to you again.

  • In reply to Dpauley23:

    For a guy who we kind of expect 18/10 on 50% shooting from, the last 6 games are really nothing too special prior to this.

    He's still having kind of a down year, but I've moved on from having high expectations awhile ago. I just hope Boozer can contribute ignoring whether or not that contribution aligns with his salary.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    Excellent and obvious point, thank you Doug.

    Everybody basically agrees(regardless of the reasons(excuses)) that Boozer had a down year last years vs expectations.

    Using STATS or your eyes(glasses, contacts or just using your god given vision) it is obvious that Boozer is actually performing even worse this year.

    Yet, some people keep trying to manufacture stats that claim to show that he is "not playing that badly". Is that what you pay a guy $80 million for. Never mind that his defense is as it always will be, non existent and historically horrific.

    Boozer completely disappeared from the game once Adleman made Darko Milicic disappear from the game, Darko freakin Milicic.

    That says more about the level to which Boozer has sunk that any stat package ever will, and all it takes to see are a pair of functioning eyeballs that are actually attached to a human brain.

    Doug, you are at a rational point regarding dealing with Boozer, if it wasn't for his singularly horrific defensive effort, or lack there of. At least it allows you to keep your sanity.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Well first off the Bulls are paying him 75 million, not 80 million. Secondly, Boozer putting 14/8 on 52 percent shooting, which seems pretty good to me. His effort on defense has greatly improved, although his rotation help is still horrific.

    The Bulls provide horrible spacing, especially when there lineup consist of both Noah and Brewer. With Noah in the lineup, Boozer has virtually no chance at completing a pick and roll as Noah cannot draw his man outside of the lane far enough to help space the floor. Your taking away Boozer's money play yet he's still putting up some solid stats.

  • In reply to Dpauley23:

    There seems to be some debate as to what the Bulls will end up paying Boozer, my sense is that $75 million is the base and there are some bonus clauses that make it up to $80 million.

    In any event the difference($1 million per) is clearly irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

    I don't what what is the scarier thought, that you think 14/8 is worth $75 million, or that you think that Boozers effort on defense has greatly improved. This notion is patently ridiculous.

    As the cliche goes, you can't teach an old dog new tricks and Boozer is one serious old dog, emphasis on the dog.

    Boozer is the biggest phony faker, jaker defender in the history of the planet. Whether he scores 2 points or 20 doesn't change that aspect of his game, just the uninitiated's opinion of his game.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    At what point do we have to put blame on management and even Thibs though. Management for some reason thought he was a low post player, when his game has always been pick and pop, and PnR. With Noah, he can't draw his man out of the lane so that he can get position on Noah's defender on the way to the rim and thus takes away a major part of his game.

    Thibs always runs a pick and roll with Rose at the three point line and this will never work with Noah. We should be mixing it up with a low screen and roll that requires less spacing. Also, try more lineups with Boozer and Taj in together, and also Korver in to provide the spacing necessary. As the roster is constructed, Boozer is very limited in this offense with our poor spacing and we have to realize that Forman and Paxson screwed up thinking that Noah and Boozer could work together

  • I actually thought Rubio was impressive defensively. I mean, Rose went off, but he was mostly shooting jumpers. And although he did blow by him a few times, Rose blows by everybody.

    In the few games I've seen him in, I actually think Rubio has the potential to be a very good defender.

    Other than needing polish in a few areas, the only question I have about Rubio is whether or not he'll be able to consistently finish at the rim.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    I agree, I though Rubio showed very nice hands and anticipation on defense. And he certainly quick enough to be a decent defender.

    NBA defense is approximately 84% effort, all of those guys are great athletes, it's just a matter of whether or not you want to play defense in most cases.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Approximately 84% effort, is that as opposed to 83.9 or 84.3?

    For once your made up stat actually reflects reality. NBA defense is in very large part effort, which by the way is the thing that is 100% lacking in Boozers defensive game, and why he is loathsome to watch. But hey every once in a while he might put up 20-10 so that makes him a HOF'er, at least according to the stats.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    If defense was just effort then why are some players consistently good at it and others consistently bad at it? I mean you'd expect that good defenders would have nights where they were tired and sucked, or that bad defenders would have good nights where they decided to give effort.

    IMO defense is no more effort than offense ... it's skill in knowing where to be, skill in anticipating what's going to happen, and also having the athletic ability (strength, speed, quickness, jumping ability, etc) to put that knowledge to use.

    Yes, you need to put some effort in to make it happen, but it also takes effort to run around a screen to get free for a jump shot ... and just like Asik running around a screen to get free isn't likely to be effective due to lacking the needed offensive skills, no matter how much effort Boozer puts in his defense will suck as he completely lacks the ability to read the play defensively (look at how often he just looks confused and is stuck in no mans land) and this is compounded by his lack of foot speed to recover or leaping ability to really challenge shots.

    If Boozer was just slow but could read the play then he could be a good defender (see Kurt Thomas). If he couldn't read the play but was an amazing athlete he could be a good defender (see Tyrus Thomas). But the combination of both dooms him.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    I Respectfully Disagree. Defense definitely is mostly about effort, hustle, determination, exerting one's will. It takes character and commitment to play D.

    It's very hard work to consistently defend without having a lapse and getting beat. It's far less effort to let up and let your man go - that's gets to the essence of the character question. The character to give the effort consistently.

    You have to care about defense to be good at it. It has to bother you, REALLY BOTHER YOU, when your man scores on you.

    It's much easier to give effort on offense. Something magical happens when the ball gets in your hands that puts a spring in your step.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Character and hard work? Noah and Kirk are good defenders yet I see heaps of complaints they're lazy stoners! Duhon was a good defender and he's allegedly an alcoholic! Ron Artest and Dennis Rodman won defensive player of the year and both are guys you could describe as head cases. Ben Wallace got his coach fired when he was traded to the Bulls yet he's one of the best defenders ever to play the game.

    It seems to me you can have pretty huge character issues and be a good defender ... in fact it's harder to be a good offensive player with character issues, since those guys tend to be chuckers who destroy the offense.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Please re-read the relevant part of my post
    "the essence of the character question. The character to give the effort consistently. "

    It's not about one's personality or what they do off the court. It's about consistent effort on D, that is what basketball people are talking about when the word character is commonly used to describe defensive effort.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    It's impressive that Rubio's jumper hasn't been a big question since it was in Europe, but he's shooting the ball very wells o far.

    Of course Brandon Jennings shot the ball really well the first month of his career then struggled afterwards.

  • In reply to Juiceboxjerry:

    That would be my first impression of his defense also. He gave Rose fits in the second and third quarters, Rose simply couldn't ballhandle or playmake against him during that time.

    I was more impressed by his game at both ends of the floor than I thought I might be. It is hard to believe that he is still only 21, since we've been hearing about him since before the 08 Olympics.

    He still looks like a teenager and is surely going to become a much tougher player as his body matures into a man.

    Just a pipedream, but maybe he would be the perfect wingman for Rose.

  • Deng and Rose both played over 40 minutes, hopefully they will stay in Minnesota and go to the Mayo Clinic for treatment, there's no way they can play a game tomorrow night after all those minutes tonight.

    They just played last night, I'd be surprised if either of them can even walk right about now.

    MINUTES!!!!!

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    According to Nick Friedell, Rose was limping around the locker room after the game having aggravated his turf toe problem.

    Bulls couldn't put away Minnesota and both Rose and Deng had to play all 24 minutes of the second half.

    Last week Miami beat Atlanta with both Lebron and Wade in street clothes. I'd like to see Bulls play Washington tomorrow with Rose and Deng in street clothes. Of course we know that won't happen, but I'd like to see the deep bench guys have a chance against the NBA's worst team. If not the Wizards, then whom?

  • In reply to Edward:

    If Watson and Hamilton were healthy, that would be one thing- but I can't see even beating the Wiz with only Lucas, Brewer, Korver and Butler dividing the 1/2/3 minutes.

    It would be interesting to see them try, though.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Come on Edward, minutes don't matter, people don't get injured or have their performance suffer because of fatigue.

    Fatigue doesn't exist if you are an NBA athlete, it is only a word that was made up eons ago for the everyday human beings.

    Although, I still don't understand why NBA teams have more than 5 guys on their rosters. Statistically, wouldn't it make the most sense to just play your 5 best guys 48 minutes everynight.

    I mean, there are no adverse consequences to playing too many minutes, in fact there is no such thing as playing too many minutes.

    I can't believe how much money all sports team seem to be wasting by paying all those extra guys.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    Nice straw man of my argument.

    I said fatigue exists as a short term problem ... I was poo pooing the idea that playing a couple of extra minutes now would affect playoff performances, I explicitly said that playing more minutes would make you tired the next few days.

    But I suppose you've spent too many years watching Bulls games and telling everyone that you're the genius of all that is basketball because you don't need stats to learn basic skills like reading comprehension.

  • In reply to Shakes:

    Sorry that you took offense since I clearly wasn't replying to any comment of yours, I was replying to the tongue in cheek sarcasm of MappyLite.

    But since you had to go there, straw man, nice rhetoric, let me know if you want to compare SAT scores anytime, especially since I took them when a 1400 meant something.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Yea, playing both Rose and Deng every single minute of the second half in a meaningless game against a JV team in January is in the absolute best long term interest of the team, as was Hamilton's ego based based decision to play in Detroit.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Well Rose is in a walking boot and will miss the Washington game. He sprained his toe in the 1st quarter yet played the entire 2nd half. Apparently the injury got worse overnight.

    Bulls added Mike James from the D-League as a quick replacement with both Rose and C.J. out.

    Today, Charles Barkley on ESPN 1000 radio said, "the only point to the regular season is to stay healthy. You can't kill your team trying to improve your seed, cause your going to have to be good enough to win on the road if you want to win a championship. And this year there's only 1 day off between regular season the playoffs, not 1 week like normally. So you can't kill your team in the regular season, you've just got to get to the playoffs healthy."

  • In reply to Edward:

    come on Edward, What does Charles know, he only played in the league for 15-20 years, obviously experience doesn't provide one with knowledge or wisdom, all you have to do is look at a couple of box scores and some made up advance stats and you are instantly a certifiable genius.

  • Miami has lost to GS, the Bulls now have the best record in the East at 9-2 (Miami is 8-2).

    Would anyone like to go back and see how "The Pessimists" ripped on the Bulls for losing to the "lowly" Warriors?

    And GS did it tonight without Curry.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    But Golden State got 24 points from newly added Nate Robinson. That guy can be a firecracker when he gets going.

  • In reply to Edward:

    Very true- as much as I hate anything ever associated with the Knicks, little Nate can be a difference maker at times.

  • In reply to Don Ellis:

    Well, there are 2 things that we can agree to agree about, I would even extend that hate to all things NY(sports)

  • In reply to Edward:

    Golden State is just chock full of players that can randomly go off and score a crapload and beat anyone, but none of them can do it consistently.

    They're the type of team can be impossible to beat while playing well, but they do that once every 5 games and when they aren't, they can be absolutely horrible.

    It feels good that they had a hot night against both us and MIami though. Tempers that loss a bit, however, I'm not worried about the Bulls regular season record any.

    They just need to get to the playoffs.

  • In reply to DougThonus:

    I disagree with "They just need to get to the playoffs." Home court advantage over Miami should absolutely be one of Thibs goals for this team. Just because we lost with home court last year doesn't make it irrelevant.

  • At game tonight, was shocked to see the Bulls play a zone defense when they had the 24 point lead. They looked horrible at it, it looked/ like Thibs was using it for practice time, but the players looked lost. 3 times in a row the wolves had/made uncontested openers. Thoughts Doug? Rubio looked good, DRose was difference

  • In reply to Aslan:

    Well, if you're going to play a zone for the first time, then doing it with a 24 point lead isn't bad. However, the Timberwolves are a team of shooters, so a zone probably isn't a good matchup against them anyway.

  • I don't like the offensive set that runs Brewer to the weak side corner of the court and makes him just wait and watch. Ridnour made it a habit to play off Brewer and attempt to strip (hack) whoever had the ball in the paint.

    I can only hope that once Rip and CJ come back that Deng's minutes will take a dip. Only Monta Ellis and Kevin Love average more minutes per game than Deng's 38.5. He leads all players in total minutes played: 11 GP, 423 MIN. I know I'm just beating a dead horse, but I doubt the team will be able to hold it all together if the "glue" suddenly crumbles and dissolves?

  • I now know how we beat the Heat. Let Phx waive Nash and Miami pick him up. That way Miami have the elite PG. DRose has such a great record against other PG's who wish to claim his throne as the best PG in the league that it'll be a definite victory lol.

  • In reply to Jersey66:

    But Miami no longer needs a PG. With Mario Chalmers improved play and rookie Norris Cole, the Heat are set at PG. It is no longer a weak position for them like last year with Henry Bibby starting.

  • This is not related to this game in particular but I think its time to trade noah, while some fool might still believe he has some value. Thibodeau might agree as he clearly is not very high on him right now, consistently sitting him out when he needs a winning lineup late in games. Boozer's contract of course is untradeable, and even then he has a unique skill amongst the bulls frontcourt players, he can score 20 once every 3 games. Noah on the other hand can be almost fully replaced by gibson or asik depending on the matchup, and both of those guys seem to have him beat in the confidence department. I think Noah was a pleasant surprise as an energy player a couple of years ago, but he has regressed terribly and both of those other guys seem to have a higher ceiling than him. Trade Noah and Brewer for a real 2 guard, bring hamilton off the bench and start Asik, and you can add a filler 4th big man whom thibodeau can teach how to be useful, Im sure he can.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Do you think that Noah is kind of worth more now in a way because of his contract(I know people will shoot me down on this). But, for the Bulls it was so tough to trade him last year for Melo because of his low salary and the other pieces we had to include(Deng) to match salaries. Now, you can get a decent player or non-fitting player on the other team making a good amount back for Noah and we don't have to trade any other big salary. For ex: Al Jefferson from Utah or somebody like Dalembert+Kevin Martin for Noah. These are just examples and obviously GarPax what is best.
    The fact is except for a small sample in the beginning of last season, Noah has been bad.
    I am sure GarPax are torn on this. As it was more like pre-season until now, should they give him more time to come back to shape/form or will his value go down more as the season goes on. As a Bulls fan, I desperately want him to succeed. But, whatever Boozer's issues are(different problem), Bosh burned Noah big-time in the playoff series. That was the eye-opener for me. It was one thing getting burnt by Howard but if your forte is defense and you are not a rim stopper like Asik plus you were supposed to be the 2nd most impact player, you have to stop Bosh.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    the time to trade noah is now, cause it's unclear to other teams whether his struggles are all his fault or if this is a fluke start or a system issue so a team might bite big time hoping to get a borderline allstar. Now you might say this also goes for the bulls, so maybe they shouldnt trade him and see if they can make it work, but I believe that isnt about noah being a bad player, it's about the fact that there are two other guys who might actually be just as good or potentially better than him on the roster, and thibodeau knows this and we have seen it with his rotations. Noah clearly is not a dominant defensive player, though he is a versatile one and he hasnt been a dominant rebounder either. If you wait 2 more months his value could plummet, much in the way Deng's value went from possible trade chip for Kobe to overpaid-untradeable.

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    I could be wrong here, but just an observation...as far as Bosh burning Noah, I think we saw a little bit of that last night in the 2nd quarter with Love draining a couple 3's on Noah. Noah is known for his help defense, which is very good. The problem is, I think sometimes he helps too much and no one rotates over to his man who is then wide open for a jumper/three. Not sure if that's Noah's fault or the other defender who didn't rotate over, but sometimes Noah "helps" a little too much when he should just stay home on his man.

  • In reply to NateTags:

    I agree about his help defense. It is obvious he is trying to help Boozer's guy(when the PF is like Love, Bosh etc..). But, the problem is his BB IQ or energy is spent in the wrong time/place. He is just not capable of helping and then coming back to stop an elite scorer like Bosh/Love etc.. When I say BBIQ, it means it is when you help or when to stay based on where the ball is and the tempo of the game etc... Deng/Rose are pretty good at that. Basically, Noah panics a lot. It feels like we are beating up on this guy.
    Against Miami for ex: their 3 main scorers are the big 3. And Deng does a decent job 1 on 1 against LeBron(not letting him have super games) which also screws his offensive energy and Brewer/Rip/CJ can do a good job on Wade. But unfortunately, the supposed strength of Bulls(interior/big man defense) doesn't do well against Bosh. It is not about stats. Can we stop Bosh at crucial moments when he is playing with LeBron/Wade...The answer is "No"

    We are at a stage where a win/loss in the reg season is kind of "ok",....everything is measured with the big picture of can we beat Miami? It feels odd to discuss this when you have almost the best record but that's the truth. If Noah struggles like this, it is going to be a repeat of the last season.

  • In reply to NateTags:

    Noah is the ultimate help defender. Like you, I don't know if it is always in the scheme of the defense or if he goes rogue.

    Never-the-less, it is a basic premise of excellent team defense(is there any other kind) that you have to help the helper.

    That is why Taj and Asik work so well together and why they are both much better compliments to Noah than is TOAH.

    I do at times question whether he helps "too much"

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Noah has severe limitations offensively and that will never change. Many of us keep hoping he will develop in this area, but he is what he is. He’s just an energy guy, nothing more.

    If Bulls hadn’t extended Noah and let him become a RFA, some team would have given him a $14 million per year offer sheet just like Chandler, Gasol, Nene. So Bulls didn’t really overpay because every team overpays for bigs. But maybe this means he still has trade value. However, what Bulls need in return is an elite scorer who is a two way player and I don’t know that Bulls can get that for Noah.

    The other looming problem is how can Bulls afford to extend Asik in 2012 and Gibson in 2013 with four 8-figure contracts on the roster (including Noah). To have four gigantic contracts with only one being an all-star is an issue with this roster going forward. Bulls need a second one of those big contracts to be an all-star (and I'm not talking about Deng).

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    Last night on ESPN 1000 radio, Jay Hood offered the theory that Noah is not in shape yet. He doesn't have his aerobic conditioning and for an 'energy player' that is fatal. (toke)

  • In reply to Edward:

    That has been my sense so far, which is why if anyone should be playing heavier minutes it is Noah, who historically needs to run/play himself into a froth to get his game going.

  • Brewer is 7-for-11 from beyond the arc so far this season. Last season Brewer made just six 3-pointers on 27 attempts. Pretty telling stat about what he was working on this off season. I hope he can keep it up!

  • What's wrong with Thibs ? Why does he keep benching Boozer the whole 4th quarter since the start of the season ?

    Given the way we got eliminated last playoffs, this season should be dedicated to offense. Thibs should tell his players "ok guys, now you know how to defend and the importance of defense, I'll teach only offense this season".
    Since it's hard to get a star by trading, he should do the best he can to improve offense. I mean creating systems for Boozer and Deng (not only rose and hamilton), maximize the passing like dallas, making boozer regain his confidence...
    Instead of that he keeps his 2nd scoring option on the bench, the whole 4th quarter. That's tottaly stupid.

    This won't help getting better on the offensive end. Yes Defense makes win championship but there's a minimun to do offensively.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    I think Thibs has decided that Asik/Taj are his closing duo when there is a PF who can shoot long jumpers/3 pointers and it can be all three cases(the Bulls are trailing big, the game is close or the Bulls are up big). He will play Boozer/Noah only if they are playing well which is obviously rare. Honestly, if you look at the current state Asik/Taj with Deng/Rip/Rose are a more stable line-up than Boozer/Noah(doesn't mean they are great).

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    ok Asik/Taj defend well on PFs. But can't they play offensively as goos asBoozer/Noah ?
    Not only Defense matters in a basketball game. With Aski/Taj, we'll see Rose doing everything by himself in the 4th quarter like last playoffs. The purpose of this season mustn't be to finish 1st of the east but decrease the "Rose-dependance".

    Boozer looks more involved in defense and is making his jump-shots. Benching him a whole quarter will disapointed him.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    That's the problem having one-way players. For all our supposedly interior strength....all four of them are one-way players or specialized skill-set players. The roster is flawed. So, Thibs has to work around it and do what he thinks gives the best chance to win. Asik- Good Defense/no offense, Boozer-inconsistent Jumpshot offense/no defense, Noah - no offense/disappearing defense, Taj - Good Defense/inconsistent offense...

  • In reply to schaumburgfan:

    Agreed 100%.
    Neither Asik or Noah are going to score in the closing minutes so I don't see why some are complaining. Asik is the better defender.

    But the larger problem going forward may be how to afford the coming extensions of Asik and Gibson. The four 8-figure contracts, with only one all-star and only two two-way players, make it very challenging to manage this roster.

  • In reply to Edward:

    We cannot afford them without one of 3 things happening.

    First, Reinsdorf says F the luxury tax and just matches any offers for both Taj and Asik. Obviously Boozer will become all NBA first team defense before that happens.

    Second, we cut Korver, Brewer and Watson in order to afford Asik this summer. It is almost certain that Butler replaces Brewer in the rotation next season. Not sure who would replace Korvers 3 point shooting. While Watson is a nice player, he is certainly not irreplaceable.

    Third, we amnesty Boozer in order to afford Taj the following summer. Or Deng who would only have one year left at $14 million vs 2 years and over $30million for Boozer. Don't see the Bulls dumping the younger(and Better) player(Deng), so Boozer it must be.

    both 2 & 3 must happen to keep both Aisk and Taj.

    The Bulls can absolutely win a title if we add one additional legitimate NBA scorer(preferably a wing like Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin) with a 3 big man rotation of Noah, Asik and Taj owning the boards and shutting everything down on D.

    If we could trade Noah for a power forward like LaMarcus Aldridge then it would be a no brainer. Since we cannot and there really aren't many or any other guys out there like him, keeping Noah, dumping Boozer and upgrading our scoring elsewhere is the only way to go.

  • The Bulls offensive rating right now is 5th best in the league.

    Yet so many long time posters continue to voice concerns over the offense. Why?

    Is it because Richard Hamilton soon to be 34 and who has missed significant time the last two seasons has been often injured, and just not on the court enough to count as the addition we needed, and that's a concern? Or Lu shooting .426 and .290 from three? Or Jo, once a staple of double doubles who is horrifically shooting .397 as a big not to mention his numbers are way down from the 11ppg and 10.5 rebounds he gave us the last two seasons?

    There have been several suggestions about trading Jo who is looking more and more like an equal at best value of Taj and Omer for a starting SG who can actually score such as a Kevin Martin.

    Martin is just an example that's been used, not necessariy the guy we'd try to acquire. But someone who can score, and also do so in the playoffs. I mean Ronnie's been great as has RIP, but between health and scoring pedigrees are we really thinking either of these guys is going to be a 17ppg and up legit scoring partner Derrick has needed in the post season i.e Vs Miami?

    If you think the Bulls have enough offense to get by LeBron and Wade this year then fine. But for those who do not, would you trade Joakim Noah right now with Brewer or Korver(assuming they'd be the ones valued or desired) for a legit SG or wing?

    The problem is even if the answer is yes, with Jo currently shooting a toxic .397, I just don't know if he has that value right now. If RIP eased the strain on his body as the sixth man, and could ditch the nagging injures and keep it that way with say 20-22 minutes a game, then you've got a healthy, invigorated playoff performer who is a game scorer... Coming off the Bench!

    That's the appeal of that trade scenario. While many question the Bulls offense as siginificantly upgraded from last year's anemic playoff squad numbers, suddenly you have a healthy proven playoff at times offensive force coming off the bench. And meanwhile you have a younger prolific scorer as your starter.

    I wonder what Doug thinks about this? Maybe that currently we just can't get that kind of value back for Joakim any longer or until his field goals/efficiency and rebound numbers improve.

    If the Bulls are really going for it this year I think it's something active franchises like Dallas or the Lakers if they were in our shoes would at least consider.

    Bulls..? I'm not so sure.

  • In reply to RoadWarrior:

    i think thibodeau would not object to a trade. Its up the front office to look into it.

  • In reply to ixonflex69:

    As Edward said, Noah's contract is a monster in a way for the Bulls and it is not from a different perspective as all bigs get paid. Bulls probably have a good selling point that he and Boozer are not meshing and they have to break it up. If he sits on the bench ...that's ok in a way as he is not being exposed and the old myth lives on.

    That said, as others have said...GarPax are not very opportunistic like say Cuban. It is a bad thing IMO because it is not like the baby bulls(when you didn't know who of Deng/BG/others would become a superstar). They know who to build around now and they should know to shuffle the pieces around Rose based on opportunity.

  • I just don't see the Bulls making any moves until after the season. Thibodeau seems to not like disruption in his rotations during the season like we saw with Keith Bogans last year.

  • I remember how guys here were insulting me when I was saying to trade Noah for Melo.
    Now everybody wants to trade Noah. lol

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Have you checked out Melo's press in NY lately, not to flattering to say the least. He may just be a more talented version of Boozer.

  • In reply to BigWay:

    C'mon, you can't say Boozer and Melo are the same.

    Rose-Brewer-Melo-Boozer-Asik.

    You can't say this lineup isn't better than the current one. Furthermore with this one, we would have had a better chance of beating miami since Melo can allow us not to depend on Rose.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    I'm not disagreeing with you here, but it's a little misleading to say you were insulted for suggesting a Noah for Melo trade. I'm pretty sure almost everyone on here would have pulled the trigger on that trade back then. It was really Noah, Deng, & filler/picks for Melo which would have been a lot to lose for a high volume scorer with no defense. I'm pretty sure that's why you got some opposition to that suggestion.

  • In reply to NateTags:

    Given we lost because Rose was our only scoring option, I think a high volume scorer like Melo wouldn't have been bad.

    Rose-Brewer-Melo-Boozer-Asik.

    Don't you think we would have had a better chance to make the finals with this lineup ?

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Today...yes, but at the time of the rumors last year...no. It didn't appear that Asik was ready to take a starting role at that time.

  • In reply to NateTags:

    I saw that Kurt thomas and Asik can replace Noah. It called being a good GM, detect the talent. I saw that and I tried to convince everybody.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    You got lucky on Kurt Thomas. It was perceived that he was a 5th big man/quality veteran locker room guy. No one knew he still had that in him until Noah got hurt. We all knew Asik had talent, he just wasn't ready to start until late last year/this year.

    Maybe the Bulls should dump GarPax and hire you as the gm?

  • In reply to NateTags:

    yes they should. All i'm saying Bulls management and fans have the bad habit of overrating their players. Since 2009, it was easy to see that Noah is only a great rebounder and defender but nothing more. The same for Deng, he is a role player who always desappears in the 4th quarter nothing more. I can't believe we didn't have Gasol, Garnett or Kobe because bulls overated Deng.

    Noah and Deng will never turn into stars. I saw that, and we should have traded them last year for Melo.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    Deng is just a role player? Deng pretty much kept us in the game yesterday, against MINN, during the 3rd quarter and helped spark the comeback against ATL. He's probably the second best two way SF in the League behind LeBron.

    Noah and Deng might never be considered superstars, but both of them have the talent and abilities to be all stars. The Bulls are 9-2, Melo's Knicks are 5-4. I understand why Bulls fans are frustrated with Noah, but it has just been 11 games. Why is the Noah panic meter at red alert already?

  • In reply to deewaves:

    "Deng the 2nd best 2 way SF behind Lebron" !!!!!!

    He can't even knock down wide open 2pts shots.

    I don't even want to discuss with you. Yesterday game must be the only bulls game you saw in your life.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    i agree that we have a habit of overrating players. That is undeniable and the list is a long one.

    IMO, nobody on Bulls but Rose is or will be an all-star. I suppose it is barely possible Deng may one day get on as a coaches selection for a year or two. But what Bulls need is another player good enough to get voted on the all-star team.

    But I do like Deng and want to keep him, he's very good just not quite an all-star. Noah, IMO, is not even in the all-star discussion.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    well said edward. I agree with you. Unforntunately for us, stars + defense win championship.

  • In reply to deewaves:

    We don't have Kobe because HE over rated Deng and refused to let the deal go through if Deng was included. We don't have Gasol or Garnett because their GMs decided to hold on a year too long in the hopes of getting a better deal and instead got worse deals for them than what the Bulls were offering.

    As for the Carmelo Anthony trade, he has really put those Knicks over the top ... oh wait, no, they're still about where they were before the trade, and they traded away worse players than Deng and Noah. Trading Deng and Noah for Anthony would have been a disaster for the Bulls.

  • In reply to NateTags:

    Yep, that is true.

  • Losing Deng I think was more of the issue especially how many minutes he has played and relied on by Thibs. We all knew Noah was going to get a big contract as many bigs with upside do so at the time we look at his rookie pay and he was a good value like Gibson and Asik are to us today, but they will make the big $ soon from us or elsewhere.
    I'd be ok with a trade of: Dalembert+Kevin Martin for Noah
    Kevin Martin is a pure scorer and has good size at 6'7" but not much defense but he is fast, or was fast since I watched him grow up on the Kings! Defense is about effort and he has good size and speed and decent athletism.
    Dally is a big 7 foot vet who is a shot blocker and defense specialist so getting KMart2 and Dally offense/defense for Noah just defense really is not a bad trade...actually a good trade and Houston needs size bad!

  • I really like what it is said here :

    http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/shaun_powell/01/11/bulls-rent-dwight-howard/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

  • Derrick is in a walking boot and will miss tonight's game. He sprained his toe in the 1st quarter yet he played the entire 2nd half. Apparently the injury got worse overnight.

    Bulls added Mike James from the D-League as a quick replacement with Watson and Derrick both out along with Rip.

    Today, Charles Barkley on ESPN 1000 radio said, "the only point to the regular season is staying healthy. You can't kill your team trying to improve your seed, because your going to have to be good enough to win on the road if you want to win a championship. And this year there's only 1 day off between regular season and the playoffs, not 1 week like normally. So you can't kill your team in the regular season, you've just got to get to the playoffs healthy."

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